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RMS Speaks Out Against Ubuntu
An anonymous reader writes "In a post at the Free Software Foundation website, Richard Stallman has spoken out against Ubuntu because of Canonical's decision to integrate Amazon search results in the distribution's Dash search. He says, 'Ubuntu, a widely used and influential GNU/Linux distribution, has installed surveillance code. When the user searches her own local files for a string using the Ubuntu desktop, Ubuntu sends that string to one of Canonical's servers. (Canonical is the company that develops Ubuntu.) This is just like the first surveillance practice I learned about in Windows. ... What's at stake is whether our community can effectively use the argument based on proprietary spyware. If we can only say, "free software won't spy on you, unless it's Ubuntu," that's much less powerful than saying, "free software won't spy on you." It behooves us to give Canonical whatever rebuff is needed to make it stop this. ... If you ever recommend or redistribute GNU/Linux, please remove Ubuntu from the distros you recommend or redistribute.'"
I’m not a fan of ubuntu nor RMS, and I definitely don’t like the sounds of this feature, but since when was "free software" equated with "respects your privacy".
Culturally most of it does, and by consequence of having access to the code any privacy concerns can easily be detected / removed by end users if desired, but I still don't see the connection between free software and assumed privacy. If anything this seems like a dangerous assumption.
Also the usual stuff here applies about pragmatism and user choice. RMS states that this feature is "malicious" as a matter of fact, and throws around spooky words like "surveillance" and "spyware" like he's doing a Fox news special report. I'm all for having opinions, but the way RMS spouts them as absolute irrefutable fact has always annoyed me (even when I agree with them). Obviously most users probably don't share this view. It's probably a useful feature to most, it can easily be disabled by the sounds of it, will bring in some money, and I suspect most users don't give a shit about being "spied on" in this manner. Remember this is the facebook/twitter/whatever else generation. A lot of people _like_ sharing all the minutia of their day with the entire world. I don't get it, but it's their choice.
Just do 'sudo dpkg --purge unity-lens-shopping' and be happy.
The eternal causenik who still doesn't understand that the price of admission for using FOSS shouldn't be having to buy into his pet social movement.
You can't call it "freedom" if you only expect everyone else to just use it to agree with you and do what you want them to do.
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
Bruce Perens wrote this recently on slashdot.
http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/11/05/0122238/bruce-perens-answers-your-questions
I fully agree with Bruce. Sometimes I feel the commercial opensource companies are worse than the commercial closed source companies in some ways. At the regular commercial companies are upfront about the fact they are in it just to make money.
Try figuring licensing terms of different components of MySQL. For eg. try to figure out what components of MySQL Cluster you can also use free of charge without paying for support & what has to be purchased. Ask a question on some public forum where there are lots of MySQL employees active. They will never give the answer on the forum. They will always ask you to contact them offline.
And what about Redhat who have built their product on back of lots of people who worked for free. And now Redhat tries to make sure Centos has a lot of trouble integrating patches made by Redhat.
I think you miss the point, it's not that it's social, its that it's sending information that isn't social to a third party.
It seems obvious that you don't listen to him, so what's the problem from your perspective? Somebody disagreeing with you?
That being said, instead of answering your question, let me rather tell you why so many people hate Stallman and rant against him. The reason is simply that he's right about most of the things he says, but people do not always like hearing the truth if it is inconvenient. With that respect he has a lot in common with Socrates...
I ditched Ubuntu about 18 months ago. I really, *really* hate the "Search for your stuff even if you know where it is" paradigm, and trying to use it just makes me infuriated. Moved back to Debian for servers and Debian back Mint for desktops a long time ago. Only problem with Mint is that by default you're stuck with whatever search / content provider affiliates they've decided you want.
"social" != social, and neither should imply giving up privacy.
You're creating a false dichotomy between being social and having privacy. That dichotomy does not exist. Everyone should be entitled to a public and a private life, and they should be the arbiters of crossovers between the two. I'm sorry you don't care anymore, but many people do care.
I think its a shame that we try to marginalise people rather than create compelling arguments. What is really concerning is in this industry Bill Gates (look at videos of him in anti-trust trials), Steve Jobs (had to work nights because he smelled). You have just created an account. The fact is Dick is normally on the money, and the world is better place for having great men like him, who have achieved things in their own right.
Do you miss high school?
how nice of you to decide for all of us:
"Socializing means giving your privacy up for the experiement"
how very nice. you jump to this, you're happy about it and you've given up the old ideas of privacy.
fine for you.
but not so fine for the rest of us who have not decided to 'just give up' and take the shiney.
(I really hope that there are more like me that will not take the shiney when it comes with such strings attached.)
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Searching for local files is not one of the tidbits that needs to be sent out for it to work.
Your post has that not-so fresh scent of a shill for Industrial Big Data/Behavior Monitoring/Pre-Crime Complex.
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
The definition of "free and open source software" doesn't/shouldn't include any limits on what that software DOES. Wouldn't saying, "You can use this code, but not if you write programs that do something I don't like with it!" violate the fundamental principles of open software? How about, "Here's my code for a really great FTP implementation, but you can't use it, or any program including it, to download copyrighted movies." Wouldn't fly, would it?
I understand that the open source coding community also includes a lot of shared cultural values, but the more it becomes just another means of distributing code, the less those shared cultural values are, erm, shared. RMS certainly has the right to speak out against things he find abhorrent, and to encourage people to not support them, as everyone does. As is so often the case, "The right to do something" is not the same as "The right thing to do." I think by trying to link his personal views on what's good, right, proper, etc, to the concept of open source itself, which is utterly apolitical, damages open source and would make people worry that, by using it, they are implicitly accepting or supporting ethical/political ideas they disagree with. (I have seen tons of open source code, esp. Apache, used by people and companies whose goals and values are at extreme odds with the generic "open source" culture.)
New user ID and fawning over corporations.
You sound like a paid shill.
if there's something you don't want anyone to know, don't do it in the first place.
Please post your bank and account password.
Please post a list of all your satisfied sexual preferences and all unsatisfied ones along with the photograph name and address and phone number of your current partner(s).
Oh and please also post:
a) Your real name
b) The porn films you most enjor beating off to (no lieing)
c) Your boss's email address
d) Your mom's email address
e) Your granny's email adddress
Really? you won't tell us?
Perhaps you should just sit in a box and do nothing ever again then.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
pragmatism and user choice
Don't you hate that those words. I feel dirty every time I see them, they reek of compromise. They are simply lies, Do you really think people are stupid?
Apple are selling advertising space in Ubuntu to Amazon as a revenue stream. There is nothing wrong with that, as long as users enter into this with there eyes open, and the consequences of that.
You're missing the point. When you search for a LOCAL FILE, that search term gets transmitted. Probably harmless if it's simply "cat picture" but maybe problematic if it's "divorce filing". The software shouldn't be leaking your LOCAL search terms to the interbutts.
I'm sick of the people who defend him on the basis of his contributions by way of GNU as though that somehow mitigates the harm he does from his soap box. Instead of doing something like taking the bull by the horns and making a slick Android distro that embodies his values AND is friendly to non-geeks, he froths at the mouth at any company or group that makes moves which earn them some money and make things easier for non-technical users.
Contribute to Haiku, fork Android, become benevolent dictator of OpenWebOS. Actually do something that matters today.
The question should be how can you be social in privacy and transparency. The best social experience is when you can control and see clearly your information path. For what I've understand the dash will send your query to canonical, even if you're searching your personal information trying to reach your personal data in your personal computer.
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/72012.html
Ubuntu is licensed under FSF approved licenses. If RMS hasn't been wrong all these years then no matter what Canonical does the end user can just edit the source, remove the spyware, compile and go happily on his way.
Unless of course RMS's rosy view of an GNU-approved world has some cracks in it.
I'm a rather social person. I tell my friends about most of my hobbies, and some of them even share them. I love sitting down with them and discussing topics that I enjoy talking about and that want to discuss with them.
I don't really enjoy telling some random company out there that I'm currently trying to find a condom and doggy treats. Especially if they don't know that I have to occupy my dog somehow while I have someone in my bed so he doesn't bark, it kinda kills my mood.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Well spoken, my anonymous friend. I would grant you mod points, if I had them to give.
John
a gnome shell default search from the dash links to google, and wikipedia by default, and no other options are given for the user to change them.
This thread and your posts are great!
It's like listening to dialog from the 1978 version of "Invasion of The Body Snatchers":
Internet User Concerned with Privacy: [chats with FBI] I'll get the authorities involved.
FBI Chat Bot: How can I assist you?
Internet User Concerned with Privacy: I'd like to report four bodies in my backyard.
FBI Chat Bot: Wait right there Mr. Bennell.
Internet User Concerned with Privacy: How do you know my name?
Jack Bellicec: [Jack's eyes widen with fear] Disconnect the Hard Line, Matthew.
Internet User Concerned with Privacy: [replies to FBI Chat Bot] I didn't tell you my name.
Jack Bellicec: Disconnect!!!
Internet User Concerned with Privacy: [ends chat session] I didn't tell them my name!
Nancy Bellicec: That's because they're all part of it. They're all Social, all of them!
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
Why are you missing the forest for the trees? On purpose?
I think that Stallman is forgetting that the open source / free software community has an awful lot to thank companies like canonical for investing time and development resources into making Linux so much more accessible to people. Not wanting to start a debate about unity or other recent changes in the direction of Ubuntu. I have nothing but respect for Canonical and Mark Shuttleworth for driving Linux on the desktop forward and contributing to the rich Linux ecosystem we have today.
I would also like to mention that - if i recall correctly it is made clear to the user during the installation process about the Amazon feature and that it can easily be turned off. Its not like they are doing it by stealth or anything unlike the other example cited in the OP.
As a long time Linux user (as my primary OS) I worked my way through various distributions. learning much about the core OS from things like Gentoo. A few years ago I settled on Ubuntu as a distro that Looks nice , is usable and just works (TM) I dont feel the need to tweak these days!. I feel spoiled by what Linux is today - everything just works out of the box (which is more than i can say for this new Mac Mini on my desk).
I guess my point is that if every one in the community was as anal as Stallman I doubt we would be in such a great place as we are now - as far as Linux goes.
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
he does actually.
https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html
New user ID and fawning over corporations. You sound like a paid shill.
Occam's razor: it's just a sad little man who knows how to troll slashdot effectively, not anyone earning anything. Other than maybe a slight reprieve from the emptiness and/or loneliness.
What are you going on about? Why would you possibly need to send search terms to the world in order to search your local files. It should never happen. Period.
Much as it pains me to agree with RMS, you're trying to argue that 2+2=3 here.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Nobody is "entitled" to anything. That's why we have guns ... if you can buy them, keep them, not commit any crimes with them, and not allow the government to talk you into letting them take them away. Fail any of that, and you can't have guns, no matter what "inalienable rights" you think you're "entitled" to. If you can't keep peoples' noses out of your shit, you're not going to have a "private life" either.
Support my political activism on Patreon.
For an excellent account of how a lack of privacy destroys socialization see "The Nazi Seizure of Power" by William Sheridan Allen. By subsuming all private social organizations under the Party's banner, the Nazis actually destroyed the social fabric of Germany. Although it seems counterintuitive at first, by destroying privacy you also destroy solidarity. Okay, so I'm proving Godwin's law, but it really is an excellent book!
i am not familiar with this, but i am not surprised to first learn about it on slashdot.
If you didn't tell them, they'd never know you wanted doggy treat flavored condoms or condom shaped doggy treats.
if you look at who actually funds 'free software', a lot of it is the same big companies that are getting megabucks off of the surveillance state.
a company like Apple has to take responsibility for how its creations are used, and deal with privacy issues... but with free software the makes just claim 'not my problem' and continue their work without asking too many questions about where the money comes from.
what are the odds that drones contain free software? extremely high.
That's just your computer's way of being social! People assume far too readily that social computing is about augmenting typical human interactions with long-distance, instantaneous communications—but it's not. It's about computers finding an excuse to talk to each other. when they deliver messages to each other about how their user made yet another typo, and oh my god, is he still working on that homework project? It's due in ten minutes!
Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
"we have violated your privacy by default" is not a phrase reflective of actual choices being presented. It's exploiting users.
What has been an interesting excersise, going insane?
WHAT does MY personal computer located in my house NEED from a public space in order to search my LOCAL files?
THERE IS NO NEED! Why should a search for "taxform 2012" go to amazon? If I want to buy a book about taxes, I can GOOGLE it MYSELF! I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A BOOK ON TAXES, I am looking for MY OWN data. Not amazons or anybody elses, MINE on MY hardware.
Even if am looking for music, anyone with more then two brain cells (Americans, you can stop reading here) knows that if you can't find a song in your private library, you have to either do without or find a way to download or buy it. I do NOT need Amazon to know when I am in the mood for a piece of music I already bought.
This move by Ubuntu is an INSANE leap into an amount of privacy invasion that is practically unheard off. This is not even CLOSE to what Facebook has pulled, at least when I am on facebook I KNOW I am on SOMEONE elses system where the most common goal is to share information.
I have NO such expectation when I am searching my own harddisk. I don't WANT to share my file searches, I have no need for it, it gives me no benefit it only is a massive privacy invasion.
I am perfectly okay with the bank knowing who I pay money to via a bank transfer, I got little to hide but THIS move by Ubuntu would be your bank installing a camera in your wallet to register every cash payment you make anywhere and see if there is something they can sell you because of it.
NO
The entire argument of the parent poster that your personal computer has somehow become public property because your BROWSER can be used to connect to other computers so search in a FILE EXPLORER should be send to other computers as well is such a leap of insanity I fear for the posters long term health, I fear he might keep it and continue to vote. It is an insane idea. What next, my car goes on the public road so my car is a public road? I go into public spaces so I am a public space?
The parent poster is probably someone who has used the word "cyberspace" and meant it. Sorry kid, my computer is a simple tool and it is MY property and I don't want data I don't want to go out to be send out especially when it doesn't serve my interests. My PC, Laptop, Tablet, Phone are NOT public terminals.
I wonder if the parent poster even ever heard of the concept of a firewall. Even Windows nowaday asks whether you want to allow a program to send data to the outside world. Granted, windows firewall is far from perfect but at least it tries. Ubuntu doesn't. And that is really really bad.
And all those who think it is worth for the ONE time they searched for a file and wanted to find a book they wanted to buy but only through amazon... please, try for a Darwin Award. It is something to tell your kids about...promise!
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
if there's something you don't want anyone to know, don't do it in the first place.
Please post your bank and account password.
It's not just that we humans have things to hide (legitimate or not), it's that privacy is a basic psychological need. Some people can't work or even pee if someone's watching over their shoulder. Zoologist see this basic need in animals that start going crazy (exhibiting stereotypic motions, etc.) because they've been kept in a concrete pit in front of the public for years (and now zoos exhibits are designed completely differently as a result).
Privacy is a human right--not because we have secrets, but because it's a fundamental need.
-1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
RMS is a fanatic, plain and simple. He may be a fanatic for a good cause overall, but he is still a fanatic.
I'm something of a student of human nature and I'm really good at observing people and understanding their motivations and often making accurate predictions on what I see. I believe that about 10% or so of human beings are just like RMS. I don't like to use the term "fanatic" because while technically correct, I think it's too limiting. You see, people like RMS don't just see software in those terms or one thing in life in a fanatical way, they see everything in life in narrow terms. I call them "people who see everything in black and white". These people do not agonize over any day to day decisions like which model of car should I buy. Everything to them is crystal clear - good - bad, right - wrong, great - terrible, etc. Everything to them is quite clear and there's no areas of gray or ambiguity.
One of the things about these people is that they tend to be very religious. Now that does not mean that all religious people are like that, despite what many Slashdotters would love to believe, but it does mean that these people do tend to gravitate towards religion. For example, I believe that most of Al Queda's membership is made up of these people. This is why they are willing to commit suicide - the evil in non-believers is so apparent that it's repulsive to them. People who see the world in black and white will sometimes change their minds on something and they will go from opposing it to promoting it or from loving it to hating it. But they don't go back and forth. If they change their minds, that change is probably permanent. And they tend to be completely obsessed with following the "rules", which at times may be religious teachings, and punishing those who do not obey those same rules. They're the kind of people who want severe punishments for minor infractions, like wanting to put someone in jail for a year for running a stop sign. I served on a jury 7 years ago with a guy like this and it was not pleasant as it took some incredible work by our foreman to get him to agree to a guilty verdict on 2 of 3 counts we had to decide on when 11 of us felt strongly that he was innocent on one count and this one guy threatened to hang the jury unless we voted guilty on all 3 counts.
The most frustrating thing about people like this is that they do not get at all that they are the weird ones. They mistakenly believe that everybody sees the world in the same clear cut way that they do. So this is why you are almost always wasting your time in trying to reason with them and get them to see another point of view. To them any other point of view is irrational and they believe that anyone who holds another point of view is insane because they think that no rational person could ever believe something different from them. So this is why when people rail against RMS and point out inconsistencies or fallacies with his arguments that he digs in. He's truly incapable of seeing any other point of view because he views such as irrational and illogical. At least, that's my guess.
Which is plainly not true. The classic model of selling software licenses simply doesn't work with FOSS. There are more than a few who do make money, but like any business you have to work hard to do so.
No, this is your hatred speaking, not reality. He is involved in emacs and gcc development even today.
Ad-hominem, all of it. Stick to the discussion at hand, and stop letting your rage and hatred get in the way.
But I guess we can't. There are too many loud, irrational, hate-filled people to address his points. They'd prefer to attack the man than his argument.
I think you're underrating him. RMS created the whole GNU philosophy, which has inspired thousands of developers---that is his main contribution. Go and read some interviews where Torvalds himself sings the praises of the GPL v2 and its role in the success of Linux.
I myself and many of you use emacs and gcc every day---I do think there's a special credit to be given to the creator of such projects that underlie the whole Linux ecosystem, even if the projects were forked away from him.
Despite being an disheveled person with questionable personal philosophies, RMS deserves credit for having created the notion of software that has a life of its own and cannot be squashed or secreted away by financially driven interests. He is like the NRA---just as the NRA resists any attempt at squashing personal gun ownership (if they came up with handheld thermonuclear weapons, I believe the NRA would staunchly oppose any attempt at regulating them), in the same way, RMS takes an extreme position, because he knows that everyone else will adjust for that and the net result will be something more geared towards the GNU philosophy than if he didn't.
Your ad-hominem attacks disparaging RMS's lowly status and John-the-baptist-like lifestyle are telling---perhaps you yourself failed at making money of GPL software that was meant to benefit everyone? I agree that it is difficult or impossible to make money of this type of software; only a select few can do it. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist, because it has the potential to empower the billions of financially oppressed poor in this world.
*frustratingly unconfigurable*
Also,
Some problems I had with compiz now work properly. And you can once again configure notification display, the MDM login screen, and many other things (MintMenu is nice too). All of those things you loved about ubuntu back in 8.x-9.x that canonical took away from you? They are back in Mint and then some. Life is happy again.
RMS doesn't live in this world.
RMS Lives in this world and has an almost perfect record of seeing the problems before everybody else.
He resembles only the anti-social geeks.
Seriously, do you work for a company getting crushed by Linux? Insulting a man, not on his character but by your subjective view of his appearence is almost a text book example of insecurity and ignorance.
Not the kind of guy we want to show the world and hope we make good impressions! Seriously!
To the intellects that will listen, he is quite impressive. You, well, lets leave it at that.
Learn to love Debian. It loves you back.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I really regret getting to like Unity.
I don't regret getting to like Unity - current versions remain imho a big improvement over Gnome. What I do regret is that I can no longer recommend Ubuntu to anyone. This after having recommended it to dozens of people over the past few years, several of whom adopted it.
Now I honestly don't know what to recommend to non-techie people who want to live in the Free world. Mint is highly unappealing, not only for the outdated UI, but also for the militant bad taste of its supporters. Most of the other popular distros are "too hard" to be a realistic satisfactory option for that class of user.
A sad time for Free Software, really...
RMS speaks out against Ubuntu and RMS speaks out against Ubuntu business strategy are 2 different things.
Casteism