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How Corruption Is Strangling US Innovation

hype7 writes "The Harvard Business Review is running a very interesting piece on how money in politics is having a deleterious effect on U.S. innovation. From the article: 'Somehow, it seems that every time that [Mickey Mouse] is about to enter the public domain, Congress has passed a bill to extend the length of copyright. Congress has paid no heed to research or calls for reform; the only thing that matters to determining the appropriate length of copyright is how old Mickey is. Rather than create an incentive to innovate and develop new characters, the present system has created the perverse situation where it makes more sense for Big Content to make campaign contributions to extend protection for their old work.if you were in any doubt how deep inside the political system the system of contributions have allowed incumbents to insert their hands, take a look at what happened when the Republican Study Committee released a paper pointing out some of the problems with current copyright regime. The debate was stifled within 24 hours. And just for good measure, Rep Marsha Blackburn, whose district abuts Nashville and who received more money from the music industry than any other Republican congressional candidate, apparently had the author of the study, Derek Khanna, fired. Sure, debate around policy is important, but it's clearly not as important as raising campaign funds.'"

391 comments

  1. Well Harvard... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    it was nice knowing you. We'll see how well you do when the rich people stop sending their kids to "that hippy, progressive college."

    captcha: enroll

    (that was funny)

    1. Re:Well Harvard... by elashish14 · · Score: 1

      Good. The last thing this world needs is the offspring of rich people.

      --
      I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
  2. water is wet by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 1

    It's more startling that these corporate worshiper types see this as such a major revalation.

    1. Re:water is wet by Blue+Stone · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, and more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the Bankers in the rear. Of the two, the one at my rear is my greatest foe.. corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money powers of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in the hands of a few, and the Republic is destroyed." - Abraham Lincoln

      The more things change, the more they stay the same.

      --
      Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
    2. Re:water is wet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      "I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people . . . . I as much as any man am in favor of the superior position assigned to the white race." - Abraham Lincoln

    3. Re:water is wet by thomastheo · · Score: 5, Informative

      I am sorry to have to tell you that Lincoln never said that.. Although the quote has been around forever, it is not actually attributed to Lincoln, and is a forgery.

    4. Re:water is wet by locopuyo · · Score: 1

      anonymous vampire coward

    5. Re:water is wet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought it was going to be some kenyan muslim that was going to destroy it. We got whole militia's ready to fight and put bankers back in charge as God intended!

    6. Re:water is wet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Regardless who made this statement, it still is quite true. Look at the Global Financial Crisis, created entirely by the very same Bankers and who, so far at least, have not been charged with fraud even though the evidence has already collected. Seems that they have been able to pervert that process too. This time their handiwork has extended to the rest of the globe. Hardly a trivial matter.

    7. Re:water is wet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      "Don't be silly, there are no misattributed quotes on the Internet." -- Mark Twain

    8. Re:water is wet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    9. Re:water is wet by smaddox · · Score: 1

      You forgot to include a date and context. This was part of a debate on September 18, 1858, against Stephen Douglas for Illinois senator. The debate was about whether or not slavery should be expanded to the territories. Douglas was for slavery in the territories, Lincoln was against.

      Regardless of his true personal beliefs on black stature (which at the time were probably skewed by psuedo-scientific studies "proving" black inferiority), he was arguing for the now accepted morally just position. In order to not alienate his audience, he began by gaining support and confidence from the crowd. If he jumped up on stage and said, "All blacks should be set free and given citizenship and the right to vote!" he would he would have been shot.

    10. Re:water is wet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    11. Re:water is wet by halltk1983 · · Score: 1

      I hate to break it to you, but there was a small matter at a theatre...

      --
      Watch for Penguins, they eat Apples and throw rocks at Windows.
    12. Re:water is wet by Blue+Stone · · Score: 1

      Oh ... :(

      Appologies, in that case and thanks for the correction.

      Damn you internets! [shakes fist]

      --
      Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
    13. Re:water is wet by TheDesignerGSD · · Score: 1

      The passage appears in a letter from Lincoln to Col. William F. Elkins, Nov. 21, 1864, Hertz II, 954, in Archer H. Shaw, The Lincoln Encyclopedia (New York: Macmillan, 1950), p. 40 http://www.cancertutor.com/Quotes/Quotes_Presidents.html

    14. Re:water is wet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and that government of the CORPORATIONS, by the CORPORATIONS, for the CORPORATIONS, shall not perish from the earth.

    15. Re:water is wet by thomastheo · · Score: 1

      That source is the reason this quote keeps popping up, but it has been thoroughly discredited. As much as we may wish that he had said it, there is just no verifiable record of him doing so. Snopes covered it, if you want more detail.

    16. Re:water is wet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      pepino
      Kumpulan resep-resep kue kering yang diambil dari berbagai sumber berita
      kue kering coklat
      kue kering putri salju
      kue kering nastar
      kue kering kacang

    17. Re:water is wet by chameleon3 · · Score: 1

      Here is the actual link:

      http://www.snopes.com/quotes/lincoln.asp

  3. Thank You Captain Obvious by mrbcs · · Score: 3, Funny

    In other news, America seems to be full of people that want money for nothing.

    --
    I'm not anti-social, I'm anti-idiot.
    1. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      In other news, America seems to be full of people that want money for nothing.

      They also appear to want their checks for free.

    2. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other news, America seems to be full of people that want money for nothing.

      Ah, yes, but (most) people in America are not able to get money for nothing

      The copyright _is_ being regularly extended for no good reason

    3. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yea and the only people who really get money for nothing are the plutocrats.

    4. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 5, Funny

      How did we get in such dire straits.

    5. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      47 million on food stamps, average welfare spending per poor household is HIGHER than median income, I just read a story about an illegal immigrant getting a free kidney transplant, the Fed Reserver currently printing $40 Billion a month for whoever they deem should get it.

      If you are in America and not getting money for nothing you are a moron now. They are literally throwing out for anyone and everyone as quick as they can. Welfare spending in 2012 has exceeded $1 Trillion.

    6. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by PPH · · Score: 1

      I don't think they understand the dire straights this has placed our climate of innovation in.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    7. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      I guess that's why we're in such dire straits.

    8. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Average welfare spending per poor household IS NOT higher than median income. That is a god damn lie and you fucking know it.

    9. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by geoskd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      47 million on food stamps, average welfare spending per poor household is HIGHER than median income.

      The tragedy isn't that 47 million people are getting food stamps, the tragedy is that a person can be holding down three part time jobs paying *more* than minimum wage, and still need food stamps. Corporations are paying their employees starvation wages, working their salaried employees for hundreds of mandatory unpaid overtime hours every year, and paying almost no taxes to boot. Our system isn't fostering corruption, it is the embodiment of it!

      -=Geoskd

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
    10. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by MyFirstNameIsPaul · · Score: 4, Funny

      Copycat responses can really sting.

      --

      I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.

    11. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by rtfa-troll · · Score: 2

      Guess you just took a walk of life in the wrong direction.

      --
      =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
    12. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by houstonbofh · · Score: 5, Funny

      Thankfully, like minded people can now come together on the internet and be brothers in arms.

    13. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Mitreya · · Score: 3, Insightful

      47 million on food stamps, average welfare spending per poor household is HIGHER than median income

      [Citation needed]
      That seems unlikely, as median income is (so far) above the poverty line (42K, I think vs 14-18K poverty line, depending on number of children). I doubt that the welfare offered exceeds the poverty line by a factor of two, which is what you seem to be claiming. It is even less likely that the average welfare per household did.

      I just read a story about an illegal immigrant getting a free kidney transplant

      [Citation needed]
      How would an illegal immigrant have insurance?

      If you are in America and not getting money for nothing you are a moron now

      Lose your job, go below the poverty line and you could get money for nothing too! You wouldn't like it thought.

      Welfare spending in 2012 has exceeded $1 Trillion.

      The economy had collapsed recently and unemployment is high. There are more people needing welfare than in other years (say, before the last implosion). The number of $ means nothing without considering current unemployment rates, overall inflation, etc.

    14. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Average welfare spending per poor household IS NOT higher than median income. That is a god damn lie and you fucking know it.

      Then perhaps you should direct your fuck-yous to the appropriate liars then.

      http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/welfare-spending-equates-168-day-every-household-poverty_665160.html

    15. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by AntiBasic · · Score: 0

      Truth hurts doesn't it Obaaaaaama fanboy?

    16. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other news, America seems to be full of people that want money for nothing.

      We also want our chicks for free...

    17. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heavy fuel; and the wars to get it.

    18. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by todrules · · Score: 1

      Because they pay people to move their microwave ovens and custom kitchen deliveries. They move those refrigerators and those color TVs.

    19. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're trolling right ?

      a) per your "reasoning" poor people should stop reproducing at all. There is a name for that and it's worth 2 Godwin's point.

      b) a country that cannot even take care of its children, poor included, is not a country I'd like to live in. I'm not sure it can be called a country actually ...

      Granted, maybe having 5 children when you're unemployed doesn't sound reasonable to you, but having 2 or 3 while being employed in the army and they should use birth control according to you ? You do know that demographically speaking the ideal birth rate should be between 2 and 3 ? if only so that the work of these "useless" children can pay for *your* retirement plan ...

    20. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Nadaka · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Now I know the source of your lie. That does not mean it isn't a lie.

      Do you honestly believe that every poor family in the US receives over 40 thousand dollars a year in welfare?

      It is ridiculous, and unbelievable, because there is no way it can be true.

      And you are an idiot for spreading it.

    21. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      it is when sex education is cut in favor of "abstinence only" programs, public funding for contraception is cut, and when people make abortion virtually impossible.

    22. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      don't have 5 kids if you don't make enough

      i knew people in the army not making much but they had 2 or 3 kids and complained about money. not like its hard to use birth control

      Hey, all they were doing was privatizing Social Security like every good, boot-strappy American should.

    23. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Immerman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      immigrant insurance

      They wouldn't need it, provided their life was in imminent danger. Hospitals are not allowed to turn away people with life-threatening conditions even if they can't pay, so the cost gets spread around to all other patients. And the situation is actually even worse than it seems since the hospital will likely refuse treatment when it would still be relatively cheap to correct in the hopes that some other hospital will be the one stuck with the patient when their condition eventually becomes life-threatening. The net effect is that everyone gets hit with higher costs, but the situation can't be corrected except perhaps by sweeping legislation since any hospital that "gave away" preventative treatments would end up paying even more since they're unlikely to be the primary beneficiary of the reduction in un-refusable patients. The universal insurance mandatory may begin to correct this situation, though we'll have to see how it actually plays out, it could just be that the insurance companies pocket all the gains.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    24. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Mashiki · · Score: 2, Insightful

      is that a person can be holding down three part time jobs paying *more* than minimum wage, and still need food stamps

      Funny that I made the same statement just after the last election, and was modded a troll for it. This isn't really the end-be-all fault of corporations though, this is the end-be-all fault of over government regulations. Want to see where it's similar? Try Japan and Europe. Massive regulations, people entrenched, everyone under 35 has part-time jobs, or are going through temp agencies and working 3 of them, and still not making ends meet.

      Why though? Because it costs more to hire someone new at full time, than it does to keep the people you have who are grandfathered at existing rates, and hire everyone else at part time. Enjoy that government regulation suckers. At least it's not quite that bad in Canada, yet.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    25. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      This is only possible when you consider non-welfare to be welfare spending. And then only use the number of actual welfare recipients to calculate the pay out.

      For instance, that includes the earned income credit tax break as "welfare" but does not include the people receiving that tax break as "welfare recipients".

    26. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So let me get this straight: corporations lobby for regulations splitting part time and full time work up, then those same regulations don't provide anything of substance for part time workers because those same corporations propagandize falsely that part time workers are all high school kids (as if we as a society absolutely need to offer up our young as laborers to the corporate gods for some reason) and you blame REGULATION for that? What an idiot. How about blaming corruption? Remember that the goal of the modern capitalist is to make sure the laws of the free market apply to someone else but not you.

      Want to watch corporations howl? Tomorrow, get a bill introduced that would strip out any distinction between part time and full time work. BTW, that's actually not a bad idea, which is why you never hear the corporate media mention it. They act like the whole part time/full time thing is some kind of natural human condition or something, when all it ought to be is a measure of how much of your life you give up on your miserable job.

    27. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      Average welfare spending per poor household IS NOT higher than median income. That is a god damn lie and you fucking know it.

      Then perhaps you should direct your fuck-yous to the appropriate liars then.

      http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/welfare-spending-equates-168-day-every-household-poverty_665160.html

      Slightly earlier claim, but it depends on what you mean by "welfare"; if you mean the Temporary Assistance to Needy Families program - the program that replaced Aid to Families with Dependent Children, both programs being what people often mean by "welfare", it's not true. The Republican statement to which the Weekly Standard was referring is using "welfare" to refer to a list of 83 items.

      (Of course, if you're a fan of Congressional Research Service reports, you're presumably not going to argue that cutting tax rates for the top tax brackets is a way to boost economic growth, but I digress....)

    28. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by spire3661 · · Score: 2

      Its not Godwin to point out that if you cant afford a child in the current environment, you shouldn't have one. It is basic pragmatism and the sign of an Intelligent Being.

      --
      Good-bye
    29. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-illegal-immigrant-kidney-transplant-20121209,0,3537821.story

      The transplant was free for the recipient as Loyola University Medical Center covered the surgery cost.

    30. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You guys took a wrong turn at Portobello Road.

    31. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You left out the part about how the over-worked employees pay taxes to support local governments where the employees are unionized and getting paid six-figures even after they retire. At least, that's how it is in California.

      It's the perfect system. Unionized educators failing to educate people to the point where they actually believed the "no on 32" campaign rhetoric.Thus, the system will perpetuate itself to the point of absurdity. As Vallejo went, so will go the entire state. "Oh, but the firefighters and police are heroes". Not when they drive the town into bankruptcy.

      Starting salary for an Okland cop? $70k. Salary for a master seargant in the Army with 6 years of experience? $35k. Look it up. What's wrong with this picture?

    32. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by ultranova · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Its not Godwin to point out that if you cant afford a child in the current environment, you shouldn't have one. It is basic pragmatism and the sign of an Intelligent Being.

      It is, however, also pragmatic to consider the consequences of allowing this state of affairs to persist. Society needs replacements for expiring members, and while it's possible to support it through immigration, the scale required will cause a shift in culture and demographics and thus social unrest, especially since the newcomers will likely find their dream of a better life running headfirst into the brutal reality of poverty that caused the problem in the first place. Furthermore, is it really such a good idea to have massive amounts of people who live in misery, have nothing to tie them down, and can only realistically improve their situation through winning a lottery or staking a revolution?

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    33. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately you can't always avoid having kids even if you use contraception, and you can't always avoid having kids and then losing your job, or one partner dying, or any number of other reasons.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    34. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      D you have a reference for that statement on wages and food stamps?

    35. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you intelligent enough to understand instinct?

      For most humans, failing to have a child is not an option. There are a few humans who are capable of mastering their instincts and disciplining themselves enough to abstain. Most people, however, cannot resist the sexual urge and even if they could, they wouldn't want to, because they must have children in order to feel psychologically and spiritually complete.

      Pass judgment on them all you like, they are real, they are the majority, they WILL have kids, and they will do what it takes to feed those kids.

      Even mug you, if that's what it takes. And go to jail so that your taxpayer dollars can then feed them and their kids both.

      That is the consequence of your "just deal with it" attitude. A nation in prison, or a horrible crime wave (or both).

    36. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by dasunt · · Score: 1

      47 million on food stamps, average welfare spending per poor household is HIGHER than median income

      Lets do a back of the napkin check for that.

      Median household income is $50k (roughly) in the US. Assume all 47 million on food stamps are poor. (Seems fair enough). Assume average household size in the US is 2.6, and that poor people are similar (some poor with kids, some elderly single poor, should average out.)

      So that's 18 million households in poverty. At $50k per household, that's 18 * 50 billion in spending. Or .9 trillion.

      Seems doable. So I dug up what appears to be your source of the information, and find it's roughly $60k of spending per poor household, and a hair over a trillion total spent.

      [Just an aside - this is why back of the napkin estimates can be pretty accurate - I probably screwed up on some of the estimates, but it's close enough that the errors somewhat balance out.]

      To break down the spending, a third of that is healthcare. The elderly poor are probably eating up a big chunk of that, as well as poor kids. About a quarter of that is "state contributions to federal welfare", which I assume is the state's share of the cost of federal welfare programs. (Not sure how the state contribution works - is it mostly medicare/caid, or SNAP, or housing assistance, etc?). $245 billion goes to direct cash aid and foodstamps, or roughly $13,600 per household. Another $90 billion, or $5,000 per household, goes to housing programs. $70 billion is other social programs, which seems vague (are Pell grants counted, even if they don't go to the poor? Does it count unemployment payments?).

    37. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Your 'ends justify the means' logic is pretty weak. You claim its wrong for me to judge other beings of similar stature when they make unwise decisions because their biology demands it? Then you go on to claim that it is right and just, and that anyone standing in the way of making unwise decisions shall face the wrath of the hoard? You are a child, defending a tiny point, in a sea of perspective.

      --
      Good-bye
    38. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ...are you seriously saying that government regulation is the root of all evil? Every government regulation, everywhere, legislated for any reason?

      I'm choosing to believe that you have a specific problem with specific regulations, but have not mentioned them for the sake of brevity; the alternative would be to believe that you honestly think an anarchist society would be an improvement.

    39. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      Not surprising at all. Consider Medicaid - if a family of four had to actually pay out of pocket for Medicaid level insurance it would easily cost $20,000 / year. On top of food stamps and other inputs, you can get to 40K pretty fast.

      Now, the flip side of this is that most taxpayers get some form of subsidy as well. It can be hidden, but it's there - employer contribution to health care, mortgage deductions, child deductions, indirect and direct subsidies to various industries (e.g., energy, agriculture). Few people end up 'paying their own way' and it's harder to figure out just exactly who these people are.

      So the inflammatory statement that welfare recipients get so much money each year is just that, inflammatory. But you need to slow down and consider reality instead of getting all hot and bothered. Doesn't help you much.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    40. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm failing to see why government regulations lead to companies only hiring part time workers. Care to explain?

    41. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you said makes no sense. Shoulda been modded down this time around as well...

    42. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Want to see where it's similar? Try Japan and Europe. Massive regulations, people entrenched, everyone under 35 has part-time jobs, or are going through temp agencies and working 3 of them, and still not making ends meet.

      This is simply not true here in Japan.
      Even McDonald's here pays over $11-12/hr (which is still too low) and the majority of the work force are full-time, life-long, benefit-receiving employees.
      Where did you do your in-depth research for this post?

    43. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      The reality is that it is a lie. They count things that are not welfare as welfare, and then they do not count the people who receive some of those benefits as welfare recipients. This allows them to inflate the numbers. They do not count everyone who receives an earned income tax credit or a pell grant in their count of welfare recipients, but they count those as welfare.

    44. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by rgbrenner · · Score: 1

      300 billion medicaid budget (200b from federal, 100b from states)
      50 million people receiving benefits from it
      = $6,000/person

      I have no idea what is going on in your head that $6,000 somehow equals $20,000

      I didn't read the rest of your post.

    45. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by shentino · · Score: 1

      What I find odd is how people think that they are entitled to turn themselves into baby factories with no regard for the common good.

      If you want to disregard the common good, you can't also (without cheating anyway) enjoy the benefits of society.

      Move out to the jungle and have all the babies you want. But if you want to partake of society's benefits, earn your keep and don't be greedy by taking more than your fair share of the pie.

      The stigma against "privatize profits socialize costs" can also go to freeloading individuals who don't see fit to hold up their end of the bargain of being part of a community where they are not the only member.

    46. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Hospitals are not allowed to turn away people with life-threatening conditions even if they can't pay

      People fake having an issue so they can get "Screened". They still get their yearly checkup, they just don't have to pay for it. Our current system encourages fraud.

    47. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by mhotchin · · Score: 1

      Not to defend what was said, but he DID say 'Family of four'. In this case, you are perhaps making his point FOR him, since the total would then be $24,000.

    48. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by MrL0G1C · · Score: 4, Informative

      I live in the UK and you're talking bollocks, unemployment is not exceptional, we have nothing like the poverty that the US has. We have far better minimum wages which combat poverty. there is no such thing as food stamps here. And of course the national health service is free to all so if you get sick it is not a problem financially (except for the time off work for some people).

      And the Japanese guy disagrees too I see.

      I don't earn great wages and I live in London and I still have plenty of spending money, food is not a concern.

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    49. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by MrL0G1C · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh and another thing, you talk of too much regulation but the whole reason we're in a multi-year downturn is because the financial markets were not properly regulated and the bankers fucked the economy.

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    50. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      It actually wouldn't. Family insurance is typically twice that of a single person due to economies of scale and network effects.

    51. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by czth · · Score: 1

      If "society" wants more kids, let people voluntarily donate to help out those that want to have them, and leave the government (and people that don't want to donate) out of it. I say society doesn't give a flying crap about it; and as a species we're in no danger of dying out.

      In terms of needing people to work, left alone that's a self-healing problem too: as supply reduces but demand remains the same or even increases, prices can increase too and people will move into such jobs as the pricing mechanism signals.

      God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13 states independant 11 years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. —Jefferson

    52. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      47 million on food stamps

      Immagrant kidney transplant

      You don't have to lose your job to get the free money, I didn't. Just find what company the fed is pumping money into, buy its stock and sell when it gets higher. Works like a champ every time. Warning... Don't buy companies Obama puts money in, those are scams to give government money to his buddies, but the Fed Reserve is what you want. I'm able to make about $2k a month doing this now, its completely immoral and unethical, but if the government is going to take my money in the future to pay for their spending today I'll take advantage of it. However, the poor who can't do what I do are who gets really screwed by this.

    53. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There isn't enough demand for everyone to have a middle class job. It doesn't matter how many people are willing to work such a job, the jobs just aren't there.

      And the lower class jobs that ARE there really, really suck. You spend most of your life working your ass off for a wage that you can't live on.

      It's not that poor people want money for nothing, its that the available options are not workable.

    54. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

      . there is no such thing as food stamps here.

      Well, yes and no. It works different, but it's not totally different in theory.

      http://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/benefitsearnings.aspx

    55. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 1

      It's similar in Japan and Europe?

      You can hold three jobs there and still not afford food?

      Life is full of surprises, but I'm going to have to say "citation needed".

    56. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other news, America seems to be full of people that want money for nothing.

      And their chicks for free...

    57. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-illegal-immigrant-kidney-transplant-20121209,0,3537821.story

    58. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by tsa · · Score: 2

      I live in Holland. We have just about the lowest unemployment rate of the EU. We don't have food stamps but we do have 'food banks;' places where poor people can get food for free or for a very small fee. I find it a crying shame that one of the richest and most 'social' countries in the world has these things. Bit our successive governments are rapidly breaking down our society by cutting spending on education, research and innovation, green technology (we are the dirtiest country in Europe and we do even less to improve our environment than Belarus does), deminishing pensions etc etc...

      --

      -- Cheers!

    59. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by bogjobber · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Except that real unemployment figures are either the same as the US or lower in most of Europe. In Germany and Scandinavia, where "regulations" and the welfare state are probably stronger than nearly anywhere else in the world, unemployment is *far* lower than in the US.

      And these people have higher wages, work less, and receive more government services. Barely making ends meet in Europe doesn't mean you're literally on the edge of survival like it does in the US. It means you just don't have any money to spend.

      I have no idea what facts you're using to make your judgments, but it definitely doesn't correspond to reality.

    60. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that real unemployment figures are either the same as the US or lower in most of Europe. In Germany and Scandinavia, where "regulations" and the welfare state are probably stronger than nearly anywhere else in the world, unemployment is *far* lower than in the US.

      You left out three words: "at the moment"

      The correct line should read:
      In Germany and Scandinavia, where "regulations" and the welfare state are probably stronger than nearly anywhere else in the world, unemployment *at the moment* is *far* lower than in the US.

      Please don't forget that the US is currently still in recession, whereas Germany and Sweden are on a roll. It wasn't always like this. Just 5 years ago German unemployment was *much* higher than US employment (at, IIRC, 9% versus 5%) and back in 2005, Germany was being mocked as the "sick man of Europe".

    61. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by bogjobber · · Score: 1

      That's true, but that's a much more subtle argument than the one GP poster was making. "Everyone under 35 having temp jobs" and working three jobs to make ends meet is not an accurate description of the European economy. In Spain and Greece, maybe, but those are outliers and for much more complicated reasons than the hackneyed "too much regulation" line.

    62. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      So that's why slavery was abolished. You have to feed and shelter slaves, but by now it's cheaper to have paid workers.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    63. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Spiffy idea. Well, for now. But who's going to run the country in 25 years (and I don't mean "lead", I mean doing actual work), because oddly, the same people who cry for poor people castration are the same that are against immigration. Then you'll be sitting in a wheelchair and need life support, but I guess you'll be rich enough to buy ... umm... well, hope that robot helpers are advanced enough, after all you sure as hell don't want some guy named Eduardo to feed and clean you. After all, we all know that those spics are damn thieves, right?

      You also might have noticed that the "rich" people tend to have few children. Yeah, because we're smart enough to know how to use birth control, right? And we've noticed that kids cost a lot of money and we'd have a hard time paying for that third car and our sixth cell if we also have to feed another mouth.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    64. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Ohhh, the infamous invisible hand at work. But, pray tell, who's going to pay that increased price? Because one thing's certain, your 401k will not be able to compensate. How should it? It was never prepared to pay a price that skyrocketed. Now you may choose, either taxes skyrocket too because government bails you out (but I guess that's not really a good idea, right? I mean, government... I shudder at the thought, you'd be better off lying in your own crap, I guess) or you hopefully have some savings.

      If you don't ... well, good thing you can't really move anymore and can't start a riot or even rebellion. Hope that invisible hand is going to wipe your ass then.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    65. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      It's only fair, the production means for kids are in private hands, too!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    66. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Considering how much the bailouts costed us, I guess we could have imported a few more baby factories for the same price. At least it would mean cheap labor in the future.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    67. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Uh... Europe here, may I set you straight?

      The whole temp agency - three part time jobs crap started when government regulations were RELAXED due to pressure from various industries. Before the millennium rolled over, temp agencies were virtually nonexistent in my country. The excuse for the relaxed worker protection was that if it's easier to hire and fire people corporations would be more willing to "risk" hiring people. Well, guess what, they didn't. Why hire people when you can just buy them from a temp agency? Or hire them as contractors and force them into self employment, at full risk for them.

      All that and more made possible by relaxed worker protections, and unheard of before we wanted to be more 'market oriented'. Oddly, it didn't improve our economy. Quite the opposite.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    68. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      But one should also mention that in Germany (and most of Europe) unemployment rates are calculated over ALL people. Not just the ones that have worked at some point in the (recent) past and hence have access to unemployment money. If you subtract everyone who never held a job because they couldn't even get a trainee position and everyone who has been unemployed past the time you'd get benefits in the US, unemployment shrinks down to insignificance.

      Just like everywhere in the world, the highest unemployment rates are among the young, unqualified and inexperienced, and those whose experience is no longer wanted and retraining is seen as useless (due to age) and who are hence unemployable.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    69. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by bzipitidoo · · Score: 1

      Don't forget screwing employees out of even base pay by refusing to employ them on a wage or salary basis, but instead calling them "contractors" and paying through a 1099 form which lets them skip social security contributions, health insurance, and various labor laws. Under that arrangement, contractors have to pay social security taxes out of their own pockets. If the employer is late (as in never) with the pay, the contractor cannot go to the labor board. The only recourse is a lawsuit. That's why people ought not to accept a 1099 arrangement unless the pay is considerably higher than a salaried rate. $30/hour on a 1099 is NOT equivalent to $60k/year annual salary. I've heard that 1099 pay ought to be as much as 50% higher to compensate.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    70. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by jjo · · Score: 1

      Right. Just what regulation would have prevented the downturn? Remember that when regulators do their jobs, they don't have 20-20 hindsight available.

    71. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Zeromous · · Score: 1

      Have you gone senile? Your UID is so low it's possible you were even around for the ratification of:

      Glass-Segal

      Canada has healthy banking regulation similar to Glass-Segal in many respects, and suffered no such melt-down. After the repeal, the insurance and repackaging of investments to back basic banking fundamentals (previously illegal since the depression) were DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for Lehman Brothers and everything holding up the near collapse of the American investment banking industry and any company invested or embroiled in it.

      --
      ---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
    72. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We got in these dire straights by polititions who have placed their position of power over the nations welfare. Promises of all kinds of 'goodies' were made to buy votes. Even though we can't afford the 'goodies' with a 16+ trillion dollar debt the people rallied at the thought of all the things government could give them. Corruption is running rampant with no end in sight. I have never seen such a lawless government.

    73. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Society needs replacements for expiring members, and while it's possible to support it through immigration

      No, it doesn't, and immigration should not be used as a replacement method either. If a society can't make itself sustainable, then it deserves to die out. We should stop immigration and let the chips fall where they may over the next few decades.

    74. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      It is not an unwise decision to prevent destruction of America. And doing so means saving the middle class. And doing that means keeping the poor alive and healthy long enough for them to be uplifted out of poverty. And doing that means the ultra wealthy need to pay their god damn taxes like everyone else.

    75. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      He is a Ayn Rand worshiping ultra-puritanical libertarian masturbating with the invisible hand of the free market.

      Of course he believes that all government regulation is bad. Because he is insane.

    76. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Nadaka · · Score: 2

      And I say that as something of a libertarian myself, but these Randroids are ridiculous.

    77. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      Pell grants are counted. So is the earned income tax credit, as well as several other tax breaks and programs.

      The trick here is that they don't count most of the people receiving those tax breaks and most of those programs as welfare recipients, so they can inflate the number per "welfare recipient" when those recipients are getting FAR FAR less than the ~60k they claim.

    78. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Diverse interpretations of our laws, Constitution, and Bill of Rights, more often than not are interpreted based on the loyalties of those interpreting them.

    79. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      It's a pointless argument you're having with people who are delusional anyway. Wall Street gave more money to Obama in 2008 than any campaign in history, and he appointed more Wall Street Bankers to his cabinet and other positions than any other President - EVER. All the while screaming about the evil of bankers. It is a lie. He's a politician. Enough said? Was there really an "imminent collapse"? We'll never know. But I am certain that the greed of political class far outweighs the greed of the banking class, and that when it comes to fabricating enemies, the political class is #1 hands down. It's never the political classes fault - they always give us someone else, or something else to blame. Every time. Republicans and Democrats.

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
    80. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mark knopfler does have an album out entitled "privatering"

    81. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 1

      Thank you !! You need to keep opening your mouth in these kinds of discussions. My country needs you.

    82. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watch out!
      You may have violated someone's copyright.

      Be prepared for the 3 AM knock on the door...

    83. Re:Thank You Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes Im certainly twisting by the pool about it.

  4. oh boy ! by garaged · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What a surprise ! :D

    getting serious, it is really sad what is happening with society, we have come to a stage where pretty much everything we do is getting richer the rich, we see that a lot here in México, every new law is pushing for lower salaries and less benefits, and from some years ago, gov is pushing to convert universities into technicall schools so we can have even more cheap workers.

    --
    I'm positive, don't belive me look at my karma
    1. Re:oh boy ! by pwizard2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Sad but true. The USA has more wealth inequality than it had in the last 75 years (or more) , mostly thanks to the GOP's plan to destroy the middle class these past 30+ years. Social mobility is getting to be impossible and the only way people can go is down. It's really fucking bleak and there's no end in sight.

      --
      "It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
    2. Re:oh boy ! by Mitreya · · Score: 1

      we have come to a stage where pretty much everything we do is getting richer the rich ... pushing for lower salaries and less benefits

      That process has a natural stopping point.
      What happens when everyone except the top-1% is below the poverty line?

    3. Re:oh boy ! by pwizard2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The rich will flee the country with as much ill-gotten wealth as they can take with them. They don't care if the USA falls apart because they have stashes in tax shelters around the world so they can just move when things get bad. The rest of us will be stuck in the shithole they created.

      --
      "It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
    4. Re:oh boy ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Promote loans, loans, more loans... This way 'poor' people own a negative quantity of money and will make you even richer by working for you to pay it back...
       

    5. Re:oh boy ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      we have come to a stage where pretty much everything we do is getting richer the rich ... pushing for lower salaries and less benefits

      That process has a natural stopping point.
      What happens when everyone except the top-1% is below the poverty line?

      Nah you don't even need to get to that point. But if some equilibrium is not achieved we will see in the western world what happened over 70 years ago in Russia. And don't think for a moment it's impossible. History likes to get back at you the moment you less expect it. And right now the western world is creating at a fast pace under the "libertarian" cry of war such a system. You know even in old 18th century France the situation wasn't bad. Of course only the aristocracy said so. And you know what happened to their heads some decades later.

    6. Re:oh boy ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, that's the plan. Destroy the Middle Class. I think it's platform plank #10 or #11 ... I'd have to dbl check. I can't quite remember if it's priority is above or below destroying the entire ecosystem.

      -- GOP

    7. Re:oh boy ! by pwizard2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Are you one of those people who still believes in trickle-down/supply side economics? The rich LOVE trickle down because they are the only ones who benefit.

      --
      "It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
    8. Re:oh boy ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't tell if trolling or complete idiot....

      I hate to say it, but the middle class more or less requires social equality.

      It's not very hard to see that Aristocracies in European history, and that most people were extremely poor. There was a sliver of a merchant caste, and bureaucrats, but the entire working class was piss poor. They were malnourished and practically no money.

    9. Re:oh boy ! by Bob9113 · · Score: 2

      pretty much everything we do is getting richer the rich

      That's only true in the short run. In the long run, the inefficiency resulting from the distortion of economic incentives is hindering GDP growth, which ultimately reduces the income of rich and poor alike. The corruption is not only stealing from the poor, middle class, and upper middle class -- it is also stealing from the rich in the long run -- to line the pockets of today's benefactors of corruption. They are stealing even from their own future meta-selves.

    10. Re:oh boy ! by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2, Funny

      You can't argue that trickle-down economics has been a raging success. The flow of wealth to the masses has slowed to a trickle.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    11. Re:oh boy ! by abirdman · · Score: 1

      You make a good point. My theory is the 1% don't realize if they pauperize everyone they'll end up poor themselves. I don't know how it was in other times, but today it's no problem to be both rich and ignorant.

      A poster elsewhere in this thread mentioned personal debt-- negative net worth. This is the definition of slavery, and some among the 1% probably assume they'll make money from usury. Fie.

      --
      Everything I've ever learned the hard way was based on a statistically invalid sample.
    12. Re:oh boy ! by pwizard2 · · Score: 1

      Except those examples of yours had the right ideas, at the right place, at the right time, and had the means to make it a reality. There's a luck factor involved. If they were too early or too late they would have failed and we would have never heard of them.

      I know plenty of people who work hard and yet they aren't rich.

      --
      "It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
    13. Re:oh boy ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just a little Econ101: salaries rise, and I don't just mean nominally through inflating a currency, when the productive capacity of an employee rises. Just legislating doesn't make that fact go away. I know very little of Mexico's situation, and from what I understand it's a corrupt a state as any, but it may be that they are placing more funding into training skills that are actually in demand.

      Also, laws that push for higher minimum wages and more benefits hurts those who's productive capacity is too low to merit hiring them at that higher price point. If an employer can only get 3 dollars worth from an employee's labor, and the minimum wage including benefits costs him 4, he has to fire that employee.

      Also, before you go on claiming that businesses can afford it, you must remember that, in the US anyway, many businesses operate at 5-10 percent net profit margins.

    14. Re:oh boy ! by rbprbp · · Score: 1

      We are walking towards the same situation in Brazil: every new law pushes for higher salaries, as long as they are for politicians or judges, and other ways of keeping our bloated government fed. No matter who you vote for: they all stink and won't move a finger to make things slightly less sucky.

      --
      They're there in their room. You're on your own.
    15. Re:oh boy ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, the GOP is the ones doing it as the "middle class" runs off to buy Chinese goods from Walmart. We've sold ourselves down river.
       
      Oh, and I'd like to thank that notorious GOPer Bill Clinton for giving China the MFN status in 1994. That certainly helped bolster the position of the middle class.

    16. Re:oh boy ! by alen · · Score: 1

      lots of people have gone from almost nothing to living very comfortably

      you're a moron if you think that just because you're not a CEO you're nothing. my wedding photographer has a million dollar house in one of the best school districts in NJ. he runs a small business and is not a billionaire. is he a failure?

    17. Re:oh boy ! by flayzernax · · Score: 0

      3 peole of out 300 million does not make social mobility.

      We should have no castes at all. Yet we have a class system. No one owns this planet, yet certain institutions and individuals own the vast amount of wealth and land and "things of value".

      They are also creating a monopoly on ideas and speach so we will have not even our minds, look around you, how many revolutionaries do you see?

      Do you see your neighboors peparing to feed an army to defend what little they have left? Are you communities prepared to cut themselves off from the rest of the world and survive without a federal government?

      Only the Amish really understood this, and I think even those communities are collapsing.

      I pity you all. I for one have nothing left to fight for other then to laugh as all this comes crumbling down around me. I am one lone man with nothing left to cry about. You will not see me lifting you out of the muck, not unless its on one of my good days. But I have nothing to help you with and will never have, because its been deemed so by the likes of the people you listed, congress, and many others.

    18. Re:oh boy ! by flayzernax · · Score: 0

      Also no man (or woman for that matter) is better then any other. There is no "Working your ass off and being better then the rest". That is a lone of bullshit. Thats what the Nationalist Socialists want you to believe. Everyone deserves a fair shake at this life, and no one should be required to carry dead weight, but by helping to create equality and fairness you are helping yourself.

      Einstien was in effect helping himself, and all those he cared about by sharing with us his revelations and theories, would you not do this with your livelyhood?

      It is your attitude that is the problem.

    19. Re:oh boy ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Technological progress increases everybody's quality of life (and wealth), but the richer people tend to increase their wealth faster, causing an inequality of the wealth distribution. However, this is a temporary inequality, and the wealth will tend to spread out over time, but only if the politicians (and other policy makers like unions) don't throw a monkey wrench in the system. (This conclusion is based on data from the UN, and is backed by prominent statisticians and economists.)

    20. Re:oh boy ! by pwizard2 · · Score: 1

      Don't put words in my mouth. Your wedding photographer may not be a failure, but he isn't a Steve Jobs or Bill Gates either. The point I was trying to make is to become super-rich with a new idea you have to have a "perfect storm" of conditions otherwise the likelihood for failure is much greater than the chance of success. How many people tried to create something like Facebook before Zuckerberg did? There were probably some who had a similar idea, but since they failed we have no idea who they are. (had they not failed they would be where Zuckerberg is today and Zuckerberg himself would be working some regular job someplace). A small businessman rising to success in an established field and someone coming up with a first-time-ever killer idea to become the next Bill Gates are two completely different things.

      --
      "It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
    21. Re:oh boy ! by garaged · · Score: 1

      we have a monarchy

      --
      I'm positive, don't belive me look at my karma
    22. Re:oh boy ! by mister_playboy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Just a little Econ101: salaries rise, and I don't just mean nominally through inflating a currency, when the productive capacity of an employee rises.

      "For decades, productivity and compensation rose in tandem. Their bond was the basis of the social compact between the economy and the public: If you work harder and better, you and your family will be better off. But in the past few decades, and especially during the past 10 years or so, the lines have diverged. This is slippage No. 1: Productivity is rising handsomely, but compensation of workers isn’t keeping up."

      http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-economy/the-no-good-very-bad-outlook-for-the-working-class-american-man-20121205

      --
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
    23. Re:oh boy ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's no barrier except brains and hard work. If you aren't make decent money in the US it's most likely you own fault. Everyone I knew growing up who went to college and got a meaningful degree are doing well. Those who fucked around aren't

      So what you're saying is that if you're not doing well it's your own fault for being stupid and/or lazy. Spoken like a true elitist.

    24. Re:oh boy ! by garaged · · Score: 2

      you are wrong, the secret is keeping the GDP positive, and it is kind of easy by legalizing forms of slavery, as we do now

      --
      I'm positive, don't belive me look at my karma
    25. Re:oh boy ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's not that they don't realise.. it's that their basic greed overrides everything else.

      It's really not that complicated. If the people at the bottom have money, they spend it... which puts money through the economic machinery and back to the rich. The trouble is - we've had years of greedy "mine mine mine" propaganda that says "tax cuts to the rich promotes growth" - which it does not.

      On the contrary, there's massive evidence to show that removing money from the rich in taxes and pumping it back in at the bottom is what drives a really successful economy - and makes everyone richer, including the already rich. In the last 30 years we've had a shitty substitute by 'lending' money to the poor to buy stuff - and that led us to the credit crunch.

      There's no substitute. The government's job is to force greedy bastards to help themselves.

    26. Re:oh boy ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not exactly true. The broader public does benefit from trickle-down economics. But it's in the same sense that your dog might benefit from the few scraps that the people enjoying the feast allow to fall off the dinner table.

    27. Re:oh boy ! by ub3r+n3u7r4l1st · · Score: 1

      Until everyone goes strategic default and stockpiled ammunition and AK47's waiting for someone to show up and attempt to collect a debt.....

    28. Re:oh boy ! by sjames · · Score: 1

      Really, it's just a side effect of the real planks: 1) make the extremely rich richer and 2) grant the rich immunity from prosecution.

    29. Re:oh boy ! by sjames · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Gates was a 'poor' Harvard student son of a prominant lawyer. His mom was a director of the United way and his grand dad was a bank president. So yeah, (Gucci) rags to riches there. Perhaps not 'rich' but certainly well off.

      Similar for Zuckerberg.

      Jobs was indeed from what most would consider an average middle class family.

      While blind luck and connections without work wouldn't have gotten them where they are today, work without blind luck and connections wouldn't have done it for them either.

    30. Re:oh boy ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, clearly this has been a Republican plot to divert money to the rich through tax rates. Rising income inequality has had nothing at all to do with the rise of technology and globalization, leading to the commoditization of unskilled labor.

      We are so much worse off than 30 years ago, what with our gigantic flat screen TVs, fast computers, fast Internet connections, and smart phones.

    31. Re:oh boy ! by pwizard2 · · Score: 1

      Yes, clearly this has been a Republican plot to divert money to the rich through tax rates. Rising income inequality has had nothing at all to do with the rise of technology and globalization, leading to the commoditization of unskilled labor.

      And who was behind the globalization push? It sure as hell wasn't the poor and middle class.

      We are so much worse off than 30 years ago, what with our gigantic flat screen TVs, fast computers, fast Internet connections, and smart phones.

      And what good are those things if your job barely pays you enough to feed yourself and keep a roof over your head? If you have to work 2+ jobs to survive you don't have much time for TV anyway.

      --
      "It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
    32. Re:oh boy ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what good are those things if your job barely pays you enough to feed yourself and keep a roof over your head? If you have to work 2+ jobs to survive you don't have much time for TV anyway.

      And yet there aren't actually that many people in the US that fit that description. Just because there's a "minimum wage" doesn't mean there are very many people who make that little. Where I live, which is by no means a rich area, even the fast food places pay $9/hour. Not great, but what do you want from a job that requires zero skills?

    33. Re:oh boy ! by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 1

      The conclusion is based on statistics most of which are derived from a global economy which has allowed the US to run a continual trade deficit for half a century ... or in other words, a complete fucking joke which will be obliterated entirely when the petro dollar system collapses.

    34. Re:oh boy ! by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 1

      As median discretionary income drops opportunity drops opportunity will disappear. You were lucky to be born in the time you were ... a kid born in the lower classes today will have to be better than you have ever been to reach the same level of wealth you did. The only reason most of the people on slashdot were able to acquire wealth was because fat american slobs were going into debt to buy shit ...

    35. Re:oh boy ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sure there is an end and it is very quickly getting in sight.

      Soap Box, Ballot Box, Jury Box, Ammo Box.

      We have tried to first 3 boxes till the point of nausea but keep getting told to keep it up and they might one day work and making sure that most people aren't educated enough to use them cohesively and in the correct way. Well, 3 boxes down, 1 to go and we don't need to have a totally 100% educated on everything populace to know they are getting the short end of the stick.

      I am a 31 year old man and I honestly foresee a civil war within my life time and the ones around me are noticing it coming more and more as the years go by. We are down to the point of either that, or pure economic collapse within the next few decades where the poor are left to rot while the ones who caused it get to flee to other countries with all their ill-gotten gains and start over again.

      I personally would like to see the ones responsible strung up and made an example of, until they feel they have something to fear from the ones they hold down, nothing will ever change as they don't see us as more than resources to use to hold them up at this point.

    36. Re:oh boy ! by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      Beginning around 1980, workersâ(TM) share began to slide and, in the past decade or so, has nose-dived, to about 58 percent. The difference went to shareholders and other investorsâ"who provide capital rather than laborâ"in the form of higher returns on their holdings.

      Why would workers be receiving a smaller share of output, and why would the share they do receive be skewed toward the top? No one is sure, but Sonecomâ(TM)s Shapiro tells a plausible story. First, globalization has reduced American companiesâ(TM) ability to raise prices, and thus to increase their workersâ(TM) pay, without losing competitiveness against companies in, say, China and India.

      This explanation makes no sense.
      Increasing wages does not mean you have to raise prices or become uncompetitive with China/India.
      It just means you have to lower the obviously unfair share of profits being funneled to executives, investors, and shareholders.

      Unless "competitive" means "competitive with the yearly dividend of Chinese and Indian companies"
      In which case, I'd say let American investors take on the risks of investing in China and India's nakedly corrupt marketplace.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    37. Re:oh boy ! by ATMAvatar · · Score: 1

      The majority of what trickles down is yellow, not green :|

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    38. Re:oh boy ! by bitbucketeer · · Score: 1
      You really are the beneficiary of a Progressive Education of you believe that class warfare is the GOP's plan:

      Class Warfare: The Mortal Enemy Of Economic Growth And Jobs
      The Communist Manifesto

    39. Re:oh boy ! by tbird81 · · Score: 1

      "Trickle down" isn't actually something anyone on "the right" says. It's a straw man.

    40. Re:oh boy ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The increase in *household* inequality is entirely due to the increase in Single person households.
      (Relative income levels for 2+ person households have been remarkably stable over the past 30 years.)

      If you really want to reduce inequality - force people to marry.

      Less fatuously, remove the perverse disincentives to marry - like a married couple's welfare/food stamps being less than that of two individuals.

      Government corrupts everything it touches, and the proposed solution is always more government.

    41. Re:oh boy ! by DerangedAlchemist · · Score: 2

      Individuals who find innovative ways to use these new technologies can become very wealthy.

      Are you sure? The article seems to be give specific examples of how established industries are using the US system to stifle new companies that are being innovative and more efficient. Now which theory agrees more with class-mobility decreasing rather than increasing. Class mobility is probably the greatest indication of how much importance a society is placing on talent and effort instead of inherited positions and wealth.

    42. Re:oh boy ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DUDE! Quit the BS about "GOP's plan to destroy the middle class"!

      That is just obnoxious! It's the same mindless conspiracy as the statement that the NSA wants to read your E-Mail! No! They do NOT want to read your E-Mail; they want to read ALL E-Mail. And if that happens to include yours, so be it.

      THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU.

      So don't think so highly of yourself.

      Same thing with the GOP. The GOP is not out to destroy the middle class. Their plan is to do anything that will enrich a certain top 1% that supplies their political troughs. If that plan happens to destroy the middle class, so be it.

      THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE MIDDLE CLASS.

      So again, don't think so highly of yourself. They don't care about you and your middle class existence.

    43. Re:oh boy ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not great, but what do you want from a job that requires zero skills?

      I hate when you people say this. Working in the fast food industry does require skills. Hell, right out of the gate you need mad social skills just to pass an interview.

    44. Re:oh boy ! by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      Wasn't Bill Gates born with a million-dollar trust fund? Hardly middle class.

    45. Re:oh boy ! by pete6677 · · Score: 1

      Every society that has ever existed has had a class system of some sort. To think that everyone can be equal is naive idealistic bullshit.

    46. Re:oh boy ! by DigiShaman · · Score: 0

      Trickle-down works. It's proven with recorded history. Trickle-up may work in theory, but when you have government throwing money around corruption and incompetence take hold.

      It's really a moot point. While both approaches aim for the same goal (moving money around), our biggest problem is the Tickle-out! As a nation, we are hemorrhaging wealth and sending it overseas to the BRIC nations. Pumping money will do jack shit if it doesn't stay invested in the nation from which produced it.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    47. Re:oh boy ! by bogjobber · · Score: 1

      It may be the GOP's bread and butter, but the Dems haven't been very supportive either. Ever since getting destroyed in the 80s they've moved pretty hard to the right. Even Obama is solidly to the right of every Democratic president of the last 80 years on most economic issues.

    48. Re:oh boy ! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      That's exactly what's wrong with America (and, just so everyone else doesn't feel left out, pretty much everywhere). The American Dream used to be "work hard, work harder than everyone else, climb the ladder and you can be rich too". Rags to riches. That dream's over. We woke up and noticed that, hey, no matter how hard I work, I won't even get one step forwards.

      The new American Dream is winning the lottery. Or winning a huge law suit. Either way, people noticed that working ain't the way to money.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    49. Re:oh boy ! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      "Trickle down" isn't anymore. Well, it is, only that we're living in the sewer and what trickles down isn't really something you like.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    50. Re:oh boy ! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The problem isn't government pumping money into its people, it's corporations pumping money into government. The former creates spending, the latter corruption.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    51. Re:oh boy ! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      And you might have noticed that cities started to prosper once they had a sizable amount of that middle-class merchant caste.

      Middle-class is what pays the taxes. The poor don't, you can't squeeze blood from a stone. And the rich know how to avoid it. What's left as your cash cow if you're government is the sweet middle part. If you slaughter that golden goose you're soon out of eggs.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    52. Re:oh boy ! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      It's more a side effect. An unwanted one, albeit a logical one.

      If I'm rich and I don't want to pay taxes while at the same time squeezing as much money as I can from government for my companies, someone has to pay. The poor cannot. I don't want to. What's left is bleeding the middle class dry until they're down at the poor level.

      But just like with wars, the GOP doesn't have an exit strategy for that either.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    53. Re:oh boy ! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Well, I'd love to buy domestic. Problem is that there isn't much being offered, and the other problem is that even if it was I couldn't afford it anymore.

      I remember George Carlin going on stage waving a Chinese Flag and proclaiming "I wave this flag with pride. For it was made in the US of A".

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    54. Re:oh boy ! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Well, once flatscreens, computers and smart phones become edible, we can talk.

      The problem is that electronics became dirt cheap while food prices skyrocketed. Sadly, I need bread every day, but a new flatscreen only every couple years.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    55. Re:oh boy ! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Sadly, the history of revolutions is not a good one. The French revolution led to a despotic tyranny, the Russian one to a Communist regime that wasn't much better.

      The problem with revolutions is that the players change, not the rules.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    56. Re:oh boy ! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      They're not out to destroy the middle class. Likewise, they don't go out of their way to pollute our planet or promote corrupt regimes in Africa to kill off the starving children.

      That's just a side effect of wanting more money for themselves. You pinpointed the problem exactly and dead on: They don't care. They don't give a fuck about anything as long as they get more money in the process.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    57. Re:oh boy ! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The same that happened for us, the 1% get split up.

      We ARE the 1% of the world population. If you got shelter, food and fresh water, you ARE in the 1% "wealthy" bracket. Essentially, if you can complain on the internet about the 1% and how we're the 99%, you ARE in the 1% of the world.

      That's not supposed to mean that you shouldn't protest and that it's fine and dandy that the super rich rip off the country. It's just an answer to your question. What happens if the 1% is all that's left. Well, the 1% was all that's left in the US and, well, look at us. Now the 1% of the 1% is trying to rip off the other 99% of that 1%. So when there's nothing left to get from you, they start to devour each other. And while I would cheer it, the problem with that is that I won't be able to cheer anymore.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    58. Re:oh boy ! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I always thought the rich learned from 1789 and 1917: You can take away from the poor whatever you like as long as you keep them sheltered and fed.

      A revolution always needs two things: Leaders and followers. The former is easy, finding someone who wants to uproot the powers that are to become the power that is. Many wanted that in the past and I'm pretty sure a lot want it now. The latter is much harder: Finding people who are pissed enough at the old system and who don't see a chance to survive (!) in it to actually accept punishment or even death as price for the hope of changing it.

      And for that people have to be DAMN desperate. Way more desperate than people are today. That's, btw, why even the GOP is always crying about handouts and food stamps but nobody ever even thought about eliminating those "benefits".

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    59. Re:oh boy ! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      3 people succeeded. Out of how many? 300 million? I guess playing the lottery is a more sensible way to riches. That I can do every week, instead of once in my lifetime because if I fail, I'm fucked enough that I'll never be able to try again.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    60. Re:oh boy ! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      An employee must not cost more than he earns for me. That's a given. That's a basic rule of the market. And that difference between what I gotta pay him and what my customer pays me is my (gross) gain from his work.

      On the other hand, my employee can only sell his work at a minimum rate or he will make a loss. If you can only pay me 2 bucks an hour but I have running costs that require me to earn at least 4, I have to decline your job offer. Or rather, and here's where the free market fails, I WOULD have to decline it, but I cannot. Labor is a buyers market, especially in the unskilled area, and he will not be offered a job at a higher "price". So he has to cut his loss and accept a 2 bucks job even though he KNOWS that it won't allow him to make ends meet. But being 2 bucks an hour short is better than being 4 bucks an hour short.

      The long term effect of this, though, is that you're losing customers. Because that person sure as hell cannot buy your crap. No matter how cheaply you offer it, unless it is vital for his survival, he will not be able to buy it. Whether that new flat screen costs 2000 or 200 bucks is insignificant if he has NO bucks to spend on it. Essentially, you're killing off your own market.

      But why should I foot the bill? Can't someone else employ people at a higher rate and those employees buy my crap? No, they cannot. Because they have to compete with you and your goods are cheaper, since you have cheaper labor. To compete with you, they have to cut their expenses as well and pay only 2 bucks an hour.

      Essentially, minimum wage means that your market still exists tomorrow. Sadly, few people see that.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    61. Re:oh boy ! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Oh please. Sure, the broader public benefits from trickle-down economics, in comparison to no economics at all, but that's not saying much.

    62. Re:oh boy ! by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      The players don't change. The fodder does.

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    63. Re:oh boy ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The trouble with fleeing to enjoy your ill-gotten gains in the Seychelles is that - well, the Seychelles has a government too. And it's only a matter of time before they start looking more thoughtfully at the huge piles of money these unpopular foreigners are sitting on.

    64. Re:oh boy ! by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      The collapse of the petro dollar economy would be good for us in the long term. We have been allowed to hoard the worlds raw materials what is basically an IOU. When/if people stop taking them it will be painful, for everyone, so get it while you can.

    65. Re:oh boy ! by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Not great, but what do you want from a job that requires zero skills?

      I think they have clearly stated they want a living wage that allow people to raise a family.

    66. Re:oh boy ! by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Well hopefully they have acquired hard assets with those loans. Those fore mentioned guns and ammo are a start, along with property to defend.

    67. Re:oh boy ! by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Whenever I hear of someone like this they inevitably had some "investments" they cashed out. If you push, it turns out these were substantial inheritances or cash gifts that really earned very little in the way of investment.
      Occasionally they got lucky in some sort of early career and now they putz around as a photographer.

    68. Re:oh boy ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've said it before a dozen times, and I'll say it another dozen times again I'm sure by the end of next year. Sadly, most will probably be as AC since I'm at work much of time time. But still, nobody seems to realize it.

      WE LIVE IN A CASTE SOCIETY. Get this through your heads people!

      Us lower caste people (if we even still quality as being "people" to the upper caste) CANNOT make changes to anything the upper caste want. They just give us our bread and circuses, and most of the lower caste eats it up and asks for more.

      Face it. Unless you can become part of the upper caste (extraordinarily unlikely, since they tend to dislike newcomers), you will never, ever make any non-neglegible changes that involve them. And if you somehow slip into the upper caste, it's probably because you've either become corrupt as hell, and thus will fit right in, become the eccentric type that nobody takes seriously (McAfee is sliding into this category quite nicely), or simply go missing.

      The sooner people realize this, the sooner you can accept it and just try to keep flying under their radar so you're not targetted to be made an example of. We just live our happy(?) little lower-caste lives, while they live their upper-caste lives.

    69. Re:oh boy ! by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      Ok, supply-side. Doesn't change the fact that it's an obvious bald-faced lie either way.

      And Romney tried to rebrand "trickle-down" with his "trickle-down government" lie during the debates, so you're wrong about nobody on "the right" using that terminology.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
  5. America: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the country that legalized bribery!

    1. Re:America: by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Legalized? Made it a necessity to be elected.

      You cannot run for an office without a well stuffed war purse. And it's unlikely that you'll have that amount of money yourself, or get it from your voters.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  6. Only an internet nerd could summarize it like that by anyaristow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    With all else that article had to say, the entire summary was about copyright? Hot button much?

  7. Steamboat Mickey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As soon as Steamboat Mickey is in the public domain I'm going to burn that shit on billions of DVDs and just sell it on the street. I will be RICH cuz everyone wnats da Steamboat Mickey

    1. Re:Steamboat Mickey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, you can't. Steamboat Mickey is now a "Trademark" of Disney, making it off limits forever.

    2. Re:Steamboat Mickey by Mitreya · · Score: 1

      As soon as Steamboat Mickey is in the public domain I'm going to burn that shit on billions of DVDs and just sell it on the street.

      What _is_ this worth to Disney, exactly?
      The Mickey character is presumably trademarked -- so how much money are they making from the Steamboat Mickey cartoons? Does anyone know?

    3. Re:Steamboat Mickey by istartedi · · Score: 2

      how much money are they making from the Steamboat Mickey cartoons? Does anyone know?

      Since it's on YouTube , they're at least getting however much ad revenue it generated from the currently 1,537,753 views.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    4. Re:Steamboat Mickey by Xtifr · · Score: 1

      That's not the way trademark works. Mickey being trademarked means you can't start selling your own original works based on the mouse. Chinese knockoffs remain illegal. However, that doesn't mean you couldn't distribute works that legally use the image (like SM) if they were in the public domain.

      Bugs Bunny is trademarked as well, but a number of Bugs Bunny toons ended up in the public domain anyway when Warner neglected to renew the copyright. Those cartoons can be found on sites like the Internet Archive, but you still can't make your own original BB content without violating Warner's trademark. Even making derivative works is problematic, as you would have to avoid violating the trademarks. Exactly where the boundary betwen copyright and trademark lies when making derivatives is pretty much uncharted waters, and if you ask two different lawyers, you're likely to get at least three different opinions.

      Still, if Steamboat Mickey were to end up in the public domain, OP's plan to get rich selling DVDs should be legal*, though it might have some other flaws. :)

      * Not that I'm qualified to dispense such judgements. If you make legally risky decisions based on advice from random Internet posts, you deserve whatever consequences may ensue.

    5. Re:Steamboat Mickey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?

      For all intensive purposes?!? Fuck me dead, I really hope for your sake that you're being ironic there....

    6. Re:Steamboat Mickey by Jonner · · Score: 1

      As soon as Steamboat Mickey is in the public domain I'm going to burn that shit on billions of DVDs and just sell it on the street. I will be RICH cuz everyone wnats da Steamboat Mickey

      Who is this "Mickey" you speak of? Perhaps you meant Steamboat Itchy.

  8. corruption? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure it's corruption. It's more like taking advantage of a system that is optimized for helping the Haves get more.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    1. Re:corruption? by teslabox · · Score: 2

      There is a simple truism: it takes money to make money. It also takes money to lobby congress, and old-money has more to spend on lobbyists to keep money out of the hands of the proletariat, than working stiffs have to lobby for a fair economy.

    2. Re:corruption? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well sort of. It's actually more like:

      Rent seeking

    3. Re:corruption? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm not sure it's corruption. It's more like taking advantage of a system that is optimized for helping the Haves get more.

      That's the textbook definition of corruption. Using your public position for personal gain.

      Politicians should be like Nascar drivers and be required by law to wear a vest that has patches of all the corporations (and any individuals that donate more than a set amount per year) that own their votes. The size of the patch directly relating to the amount of ownership. When the amount of ownership gets above 50% that politician can no longer run for public office as it is obvious that he no longer represents his constituency.

    4. Re:corruption? by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      You should not have been modded down. It's true. The system is nothing more than a perfect reflection, an 'evolution', if you will, of natural, biological predation. Corruption and deceit are features...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    5. Re:corruption? by garaged · · Score: 1

      you gotta be living in a stable european country, even Greece and Spain have a LOT of trouble with corruption getting them into a lot of economic problems, and that it pretty much the norm on third world countries, I'm sure there are a few corruption scales you can check online to support this.

      --
      I'm positive, don't belive me look at my karma
    6. Re:corruption? by shentino · · Score: 2

      The one who has the gold makes the rules, and the one who makes the rules takes the gold.

      It's a feedback loop.

    7. Re:corruption? by Narnie · · Score: 1

      Would that mean the president would have to stop wearing USA pins?

      --
      greed@All_Evils:~#
    8. Re:corruption? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      But ... but that would mean that C-SPAN could only show empty seats from now on. That's even more boring than their usual lineup.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    9. Re:corruption? by teslabox · · Score: 1

      that's a good corollary. Thanks!

  9. disney hasn't created new characters? really by alen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    one of the most popular halloween costumes this year was from Jake and the Neverland Pirates, a Peter Pan spin off that Disney has in its 3rd season now
    disney jr has lots of new characters like Oso, Handy Manny, Little Einsteins and others

    and the popularity of Mickey and its copyright protection is what fueled the children's animation revolution of the last 20 some years
    lion king
    shrek
    all the Pixar movies
    and at least a dozen other movies

    1. Re:disney hasn't created new characters? really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Phineas and Ferb merchandise is around too.

      I don't think the Disney Corporation is suffering from creative ideas.

      Obviously you can quibble over who did it, and whether they just funded somebody else.

    2. Re:disney hasn't created new characters? really by fey000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't understand your reasoning here. Are you saying that because Disney has created more characters than Mickey Mouse, it's fine that copyright protection be extended ad infinitum? Could you elaborate a bit on your argument please, as I'm sure there is at small step inbetween premise and conclusion that I am missing.

    3. Re:disney hasn't created new characters? really by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      I think the fear that one day Mickey Mouse WILL enter the public domain is spurring that revolution. Imagine how much more would exist if it wasn't renewed. THey'd need a steady stream of new characters

    4. Re:disney hasn't created new characters? really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Big deal?

      It's not a big deal if they violate the constitution? It's not a big deal that that would destroy the public domain and not do anything to encourage innovation?

      You're disgusting.

    5. Re:disney hasn't created new characters? really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      the only people hoping to kill copyright are the leaches who have never created anything themselves and just want to rip off someone's work

      What, like Disney and their extensive use of public domain music and characters? You best be trolling, bitch.

    6. Re:disney hasn't created new characters? really by Stormwatch · · Score: 3, Informative

      "The Lion King" was a good movie, but it was far from original; it started as an adaptation of Osamu Tezuka's "Kimba the White Lion", and the plot is heavily based upon Shakespeare's "Hamlet".

      And Shrek is not even a Disney character, fool!

    7. Re:disney hasn't created new characters? really by alen · · Score: 2

      i never said shrek was disney. the point is even with mickey protected by copyright there is still lots of new animation coming out and people thinking up new stories

      and shakespeare copied as well. everyone does. nothing bad about it, you just have to make your story unique to make it something new. like Paramount did with DS9 when they used Babylon 5 as inspiration

    8. Re:disney hasn't created new characters? really by alen · · Score: 1

      and like no one else has created any new animation lately?

      disney animation was a joke until they bought pixar. they haven't had a good story since the lion king

      the fact that mickey and disney's other properties were protected by copyright is what spurred Pixar, Dreamworks and others to create new animation and leave disney in the dust

      disney thought they were riding on easy money paying for perpetual copyright, but there is an endless pool of new ideas out there and people thought up stories a lot better than Mickey

    9. Re:disney hasn't created new characters? really by fey000 · · Score: 1

      Yet it would appear Pixar has created the Pixar movies. I don't see how buying other companies can equal innovation. In fact, looking at the list of movies created (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pixar_films) I would posit that the Disney buyout (2006) did not affect the production of movies in any particular direction.

      Furthermore, I find it interesting you describe 'copyright killers' as leeches (leechers? lechers?) who cannot create anything themselves and want to steal other's work, since that sentence can also be applied to companies that claim the rights to any intellectual property conceived by their employees, or to any music production company that signs artists into debt.

      Last, I would like to emphasize that not everyone (on personal note I would say *far* from everyone) wants to limit copyright on the basis of making money.

    10. Re:disney hasn't created new characters? really by Pubstar · · Score: 2

      Funny thing is, The Lion King is a ripoff of some Japanese cartoon. IIRC the company that made it tried to sue Disney over it snd lost even though it's the same god damn thing.

    11. Re:disney hasn't created new characters? really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      but those new characters are based off of stories and characters that are in the public domain.

      shrek is a new character but his entire universe depends on public domain material.

      jake and the neverland pirate? hey, that's awesome. now go try to make a spinoff series based on the mickey mouse universe and not get sued in the process.

    12. Re:disney hasn't created new characters? really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Big deal? lots of new popular characters have been created. a lot more characters will be created in the future.

      That is Slippery Slope, you explain the results of the event, without describing how the results follow from that event.

      > the only people hoping to kill copyright are the leaches who have never created anything themselves and just want to rip off someone's work.

      That is False Dilemma, either we have to agree with you or we are leaches. That argument is also very simple to destroy. I have created stuff and published it to public domain, I also oppose the copyright, so your statement can't be true.

    13. Re:disney hasn't created new characters? really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > It's not a big deal if they violate the constitution?

      Appeal to Authority

      > It's not a big deal that that would destroy the public domain and not do anything to encourage innovation?

      Slippery Slope

      > You're disgusting.

      Ad Hominem

    14. Re:disney hasn't created new characters? really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "I'm glad copyright protection is 90 years long, because there's no way this movie would be worth making if it were public domain after 20 years."

      -Said no film executive, ever.

    15. Re:disney hasn't created new characters? really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I agree with the spirit of your post, two remarks:
      - Shakespeare wasn't original in his stories either, but brought novelty to them
      - Making Hamlet an African prince instead of a Danish prince definitely brings a novelty to it.
          (having comic relief characters understandable for a four-year old similarly is novel in a Shakespearean tale)

    16. Re:disney hasn't created new characters? really by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      The Lion King is a rewrite of Hamlet.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    17. Re:disney hasn't created new characters? really by gmhowell · · Score: 2

      Kimba the White Lion is the google search term you are looking for.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    18. Re:disney hasn't created new characters? really by Tagged_84 · · Score: 2

      Exactly how does Mickey mouse being "protected" by copyright spur Pixar? The same could be said for Mickey going public domain, it spurred Pixar to re-create Mickey, enchanting a new generation and pushed animation to a new height... Draconian copyright laws help no-one!

    19. Re:disney hasn't created new characters? really by bipbop · · Score: 1

      Well, yes, but it's more accurately a copy of a copy. It includes lots of elements taken from what they *directly* copied which were not present in Hamlet.

    20. Re:disney hasn't created new characters? really by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Spinoffs and ripoffs, anyone?

      Peter Pan is hardly an original idea. Lion King is pretty much the Hamlet story moved into the animal kingdom (and let's not talk about the "Kimba" allegations). Shrek is the average fairy tale where the poor but gallant prince wins the princess over the rich twit, with "poor" being replaced with "ugly".

      If anything, Disney should be effin' glad that copyright only reaches back so far...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    21. Re:disney hasn't created new characters? really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Appeal to Authority

      It's not an appeal to authority to state that it's probably a bad thing if the government gives itself powers it doesn't have. I didn't say, "The constitution says X, so you're worng." You're an idiot.

      Slippery Slope

      What the fuck are you talking about? Where's the slippery slope? You're an idiot.

      Ad Hominem

      Ad hominem would be, "You're an idiot, so you're wrong." or something such as that. You're an idiot.

      Look, there's plenty of information about logical fallacies available on the Internet; it might help if you read some of it.

  10. just make your own character by alen · · Score: 1

    with amazon making it easy to self publish i decided to try my luck with writing. almost finished with my first novella. i got the idea for the story from a meme i saw on Google Plus almost a year ago and used my wife and other people i've met for the characters.

    not very hard

    how is lack of copyright going to encourage people to make up new content?

    1. Re:just make your own character by rknop · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is a WIDE gulf between completely lack of copyright,and the never-ending copyright terms that we have in the USA today. (And don't tell me that copyrights are finite, because they DO get extended every time things are about to start to enter the public domain again.)

      Arguing against infinite copyrights doesn't necessarily mean arguing for absolutely no copyright at all.

    2. Re:just make your own character by alen · · Score: 2

      so what if copyrights go to infinity? there is an almost never ending pool of new ideas to work on

      Fifty Shades of Grey may have gotten a lot of hype a few months ago but there lots of other romance novels in the kindle store. people are always making up cool ideas for art, creating the product and selling it

    3. Re:just make your own character by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      so what if copyrights go to infinity? there is an almost never ending pool of new ideas to work on

      Hah! Where do you think these copyrighted ideas come from? Disney specifically had taken things from public domain like there is no tomorrow (name 3 Disney cartoons that aren't based on public domain fables...?)

      Fifty Shades of Grey may have gotten a lot of hype a few months ago but there lots of other romance novels in the kindle store.

      Ok, the fact that you consider romance novels a prime area where copyrights are important (or even a significant area) is sad
      Romance novels is one area that will do fine with or without copyrights. What are they going to copyright? Well-pictured abs on the cover? Exotic euphemisms for describing a cock?

    4. Re:just make your own character by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you take the meme and don't care that it may be copyrighted. What about the people you used, with the right laws they could copyright everything about them forever. I bet none of your characters is so unique that there hasn't been written something similar before. With eternal copyright you are screwed.

    5. Re:just make your own character by alen · · Score: 1

      Disney is not the only ones making cartoons. In fact most of disney's revenue is from sports these days. They own espn

      There was shrek that was based on a kids book
      Maracascar
      Ice age
      Pixar has made some excellent stuff like toy story and monsters that Disney only distributed
      Megamind was a superman ripoff but superheroes in general are an old idea
      Despicable me

      But if you want to talk Disney
      Special agent oso
      Handy manny
      Chuggington which is inspired by Thomas the tank engine
      The older kid crap that Disney has for teens

      My two year old likes Mickey but he's such a minor character these days it's like he doesn't exist. He is mostly for clueless foreigners to identify American animation by

    6. Re:just make your own character by alen · · Score: 1

      You just have to make your story unique enough. Not very hard if you use your imagination.

      Start trek copied Babylon 5 but they made it unique
      Same with sliders copying doctor who

    7. Re:just make your own character by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there really is no middle ground. We didn't get here by chance. If we start over with finite copyright again, you will eventually end up with infinite copyright.

    8. Re:just make your own character by sjames · · Score: 1

      Copyright is a bargain struck between the public (domain) and producers of creative works. It's one and only purpose is to encourage the creation of new works.

      Now, when you bargain for a car, do you start out by offering the salesman the entire balance you have in the bank plus all of your disposable income for the rest of your life? Why should the public offer perpetual copyright? Now, have you EVER gone back to the dealership and handed them a wad of cash while explaining that even though they agreed to the sale you just don't feel that you paid them enough? So why should the copyright bargain ever be sweetened for works already created?

      Are you saying that if copyright was only 60 years you would never have even considered creating a novella?

    9. Re:just make your own character by shentino · · Score: 1

      It's not about creativity, it's about control.

      They just want to make sure nobody else makes money except for them.

    10. Re:just make your own character by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      There's nothing wrong with copyright per se. What's wrong is the lengths it goes to.

      I think we can agree that you should be allowed to reap the fruits from your labour and be the only one allowed to sell your story. But why should your kids still rake in the money from your work? Please explain to a bricklayer why you should be entitled to this, but he cannot let his kids charge rent for the houses he built.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    11. Re:just make your own character by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "just make your own character"

      You'd better hope to god that your book fails, or your fanbase stays so insanely small that it simply slips clean under the radar of any of the 'big' companies. Unless you're also an extraordinarily good lawyer on the side, the team of lawyers with Disney or any other large media company can and will find some similarity, no matter how vague or incorrect, between your book and something that they own... and will sue the everloving piss out of you.

      So good luck, but if I were you I'd keep a phone number for a damned good lawyer kicking around when you're ready to publish.

    12. Re:just make your own character by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus, you are an idiot.

  11. What does MIcky Mouse have to do with innovation? by Osgeld · · Score: 1

    This story just makes no since, innovation is not imagining up some new character for dumb shit kids to drool over, and its not like micky mouse is keeping animation in the steam boat era. If nothing else, micky is a driver in the innovation of new animation techniques and technologies.

     

  12. My problem is that by Nyder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    companies like Disney rape the public domain for ideas and never give back to the public domain.

    --
    Be seeing you...
    1. Re:My problem is that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, if Public Domain owned stock he'd get money back in the form of dividends.

    2. Re:My problem is that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rule 34 called. It disagrees. (NSFW+ I did not click that link to validate the reference. Feel free to scrub your own eyes out yourself.)

    3. Re:My problem is that by shentino · · Score: 1

      Not to mention a recent *retroactive* claw-back that allows stuff to UN-lapse.

  13. The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's scary how few people in the U.S. take the corruption in their government seriously. There are jokes!

    The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe than shown in the Harvard Review article. For example, read Funding the Enemy: How U.S. Taxpayers Bankroll the Taliban.

    Or read House of Bush, House of Saud: The Secret Relationship Between the World's Two Most Powerful Dynasties.

    To many in the U.S. government, killing other people is a way of making money.

    1. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Also read Classified Woman by Sibel Edmonds.

    2. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The reason they joke is because short of violent revolution there isn't a thing you can do about it. The majority of the media outlets are owned by a handful of rich old insiders that are gonna make damned sure anybody that doesn't "play ball" never gets heard, look up the John Stewart video on Ron Paul where when it looked like people might actually vote for him he became "he who shall not be named" with reporters even listing who came in first, second, FOURTH and fifth, while making sure the name Ron Paul was never spoken. At the end of the clip Stewart shows a reporter who points this out, saying "We are talking about Christie and Palin who aren't even running, and nobody is talking about Paul who is doing good in the polls" to which the anchor got a douchebag smirk and said "Well if you get footage of Palin or Christie let us know, you can just keep the Paul stuff".

      You can't fix a corrupt system by following the rules of that system, because they will simply change the rules to insure you can't win. This video on voting says it better than I can but the simple fact is at the end of the day they own the media, they control what the populace knows and is told, and they write the big fat checks to get the laws they want passed. To quote the late great George Carlin "Know why things never change? Because the owners of this country don't want change! They own you, they own everything worth having in this country and they do NOT want things to get better because its not good for business." and that is the truth.

      You can protest in your little free speech zone that is far away from anybody that could be bothered, you can occupy until your hair turns grey and you look like just another one of the growing homeless, it just doesn't matter as the top 1% control the government, the money with both the Fed and Wall Street, and they control the media. Short of a full on violent revolution there is simply nothing you can do, all voting does is replace one puppet with another and the one you kicked out gets a cushy job with a lobbying firm so those you elect can see first hand the cushy position waiting for them if they play ball. Your vote means nothing, and unless your last name is Rothschild or Rockefeller your opinion means less than nothing.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    3. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by yuhong · · Score: 1

      Short of revolution? I know it sucks, but...

    4. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by shentino · · Score: 1

      Not to mention (citation; a previous slashdot article on the ohio election) that they are also prepared to outright cheat to win.

      They don't even follow their own rules, and the violent suppression of the 99 percent protest proves that they are willing to use force of arms to protect their corruption from being flushed out.

    5. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by Sabriel · · Score: 1

      There is something else you can do about it - leave, and take those of similar view with you.

      NOTE WELL: I'm not being rude. People often mention the four "boxes" (soap, poll, jury and ammo) but not so much the fifth (cargo). If you're descended from immigrants, then leaving in the hope of finding a better life is something your ancestors did. It's something that all immigrants do. It's an option that, if you seriously think your choices are shrinking to the fourth box, you should consider as a genuine alternative.

      Frankly, I don't think it's down to that, yet. But if it does, or you think it has, nothing says you need to wait until the choice is taken from you - indeed, taking the fifth beats pleading it (after all, if your neighbours actually like what's happening to the country, they too would rather have you leave than have you start shooting). If you're wrong, at least nobody got killed, and if you're right, you got out before the border closed. Truly repressive regimes discourage leaving, for some reason.

      (there's also the sixth box - sand, as in sticking one's head in - but we use that all the time)

    6. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by epp_b · · Score: 1

      Man, where's the "+1 Depressing" mod when you need it...

    7. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by satuon · · Score: 1

      But that is the problem - to get angry enough to start a revolution, people still need to know about those things that would make them angry, and the gatekeepers of information are in the position to ensure this doesn't happen.

    8. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Next thing you know, you'll start telling me Versalife is setting up shop in Hong Kong's Wan Chai district. Just put down the Dragon's Tooth sword and step away from the conspiracy theories.

      You're likely upset because times are tough. Why? Because some joker decided to sell oil in exchange for Euros. That joker is dead now, returned to a hole after they found him in one. A war was started over that, an unpopular war. And those that use Euros and wanted to see them gain value took that message to heart. The US is afraid of losing the dollar's dominance. So seeing a weakness, they started dabbling in non-dollar trade routes, but not until some years later, when it appeared the dollar was weak.

      Meanwhile, the US was heading that off at the pass. The dollar only looked weak as a byproduct of the design of the plan to maintain dominance. The US government and the Fed were pushing banks to loan money to risky investors. "Buy homes you can't afford! Loan money you don't have! Here, we'll set up a pseudo-governmental corporation to absorb the fallout!" And so it was. Homes were bought. Loans were given. And the fallout came. Foreclosures. "Too big to fail". The bailouts, oh, the bailouts.

      The world economy tanked under the stress. The banks were "saved" from the mess they caused at the government's direction by the government's bailouts. Meanwhile, the Euro is dying. Greece is in full-on meltdown. Spain and Italy aren't doing so hot. Even France and Germany are hurting. And next up, China is tasting the pain of defying the dollar, seeing double-digit year-over-year productivity losses and factory shutdowns.

      The lessons:
      1) You don't use anything but US Federal Reserve Notes to do business around the world, especially when you're selling oil.
      2) You don't set up trade routes without permission from the 800 lb. gorilla.
      3) The US pulls strings. You might unravel if they pull yours. Do what you're told.

      Rothschilds and Rockefellers are the least of everyone's worries. Schemers are about, and the old monied interests aren't necessarily the ones in control. Rockefellers won this round. Rothschilds lost.

      "But what if... what if there was someone else, and they wanted to see both sides lose?"

    9. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by yuhong · · Score: 1

      Not my point. I mean if a revolution is really needed.

    10. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The reason they joke is because short of violent revolution there isn't a thing you can do about it.

      There is one thing. Publish the names and pics of those politicians, lawyers and other corrupt people in power. Do the same with those who try to protect corrupt people, no matter if it is their job to do so or not.

      Along with our systems of capitalism and governance, there is the system of dilution of blame and responsibility. It attempts to split and share responsibility into smallest bits possible and distribute the bits as far and wide as possible. Finally it has been watered down so much that everyone and no one is responsible. The goal is to make some people have power without responsibility while everyone else have only responsibility but no power.

      You can see the blame going around at grassroots level where people accuse each other for voting democrats or republicans. It does not matter when there is no power left at that level. Only blame and responsibility.

      We can fix this (slowly) by giving names and faces to those who we really should blame for known cases of corruption. And to those who try to protect corruption: lawyers and police. One can not "only do his job" and not be responsible for upholding corruption.

    11. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by Evil+Pete · · Score: 1

      Amen to that. I'm not even an American and I find it depressing.

      --
      Bitter and proud of it.
    12. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I've shopped around, it ain't much better elsewhere. I guess no matter where you take your fifth box, you should take the fourth at least with you.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    13. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Probably because it's the same crap raining down in your country? And even though I don't know what country you are in, I'm pretty sure I'm right.

      The main advantage the "capitalist" (I use the word loosely here just to indicate the difference) countries have over the former communist ones is that there is no "golden west" we could want to flee to.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    14. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Publish? Where? The (*snicker*) internet? Who's going to see that? Probably the same that watch actual news shows instead of the shows sold as news, and they already know.

      But what do 1% of the population mean in a popular vote? It really sucks to be in the wrong 99% and 1% at the same time, you know...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    15. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      Short of revolution? I know it sucks, but...

      They are not so stupid as to oppress the population enough to get them angry enough. To get a revolution, you need desperate people. As long as they have a big screen TV, Hollywood and the MBA to fill it up, nobody will lift a finger.

    16. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      The reason they joke is because short of violent revolution there isn't a thing you can do about it. The majority of the media outlets are owned by a handful of rich old insiders that are gonna make damned sure anybody that doesn't "play ball" never gets heard, look up the John Stewart video on Ron Paul where when it looked like people might actually vote for him he became "he who shall not be named" with reporters even listing who came in first, second, FOURTH and fifth, while making sure the name Ron Paul was never spoken. At the end of the clip Stewart shows a reporter who points this out, saying "We are talking about Christie and Palin who aren't even running, and nobody is talking about Paul who is doing good in the polls" to which the anchor got a douchebag smirk and said "Well if you get footage of Palin or Christie let us know, you can just keep the Paul stuff".

      You can't fix a corrupt system by following the rules of that system, because they will simply change the rules to insure you can't win. This video on voting says it better than I can but the simple fact is at the end of the day they own the media, they control what the populace knows and is told, and they write the big fat checks to get the laws they want passed. To quote the late great George Carlin "Know why things never change? Because the owners of this country don't want change! They own you, they own everything worth having in this country and they do NOT want things to get better because its not good for business." and that is the truth.

        You can protest in your little free speech zone that is far away from anybody that could be bothered, you can occupy until your hair turns grey and you look like just another one of the growing homeless, it just doesn't matter as the top 1% control the government, the money with both the Fed and Wall Street, and they control the media. Short of a full on violent revolution there is simply nothing you can do, all voting does is replace one puppet with another and the one you kicked out gets a cushy job with a lobbying firm so those you elect can see first hand the cushy position waiting for them if they play ball. Your vote means nothing, and unless your last name is Rothschild or Rockefeller your opinion means less than nothing.

      Friends are telling me that the USA is going to implode financially. When it happens, because of debt and deficit, they believe the country will divide into four. Texas will go it alone. Alaska will not be defensible financially, and the Chinese which hold so much American dollars will perhaps get paid 1/10th cent for every dollar owed. And this is due to corruption, where citizens or businesses sell out their country.
       

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    17. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by yuhong · · Score: 1
    18. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      THANK you! I've been saying for YEARS that we live in a caste society, and that the lower caste can not and will not EVER be allowed to make changes that affect the upper caste in a non-neglegible way.

      It's nice to see at least ONE other person on Slashdot gets it. Wooh! Up to two people that finally see this! Just another couple hundred million to go before it even slightly means anything. Buuuut I'll be lucky if this number even hits more than 10 by the time I get old and die, because far too many people keep thinking that things can be changed.

      YOUR NOT UPPER CASTE! YOU CANNOT MAKE CHANGES THAT AFFECT THEM! That will never be allowed... get that through your heads!

    19. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      You want a way to wake people around you up AC? point how long the same players have been playing the game, Goldman Sachs, est 1860s, JP Morgan, est 1870s, Rockefeller, Rothschilds, all came into power during the age of the robber barons and NEVER LEFT, they just grew more powerful with each generation. Goldman has controlled the Fed since the day it started, look at how many heads of the Fed since its start nearly a century ago has been GS employees.

      The simple fact is if there was ANY way to change the caste system then the faces at the top would change over the decades, but they don't. The only growth is from the offspring of these dynasties having more kids some generations than before, that's all. The power players change the names of their corps once in awhile, some like GS don't even bother to do that, but if you follow the money and look at the real players, the ones that can actually affect global economies, start wars and profit from misery no matter what happens on the global stage? its ALL the same bunches over and over AND OVER, no different than the Counts and Barons of old, they simply changed titles and kept doing business as usual.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    20. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      point how long the same players have been playing the game, Goldman Sachs, est 1860s, JP Morgan, est 1870s, Rockefeller, Rothschilds, all came into power during the age of the robber barons and NEVER LEFT

      Won't work. That's 19th century US you're talking about, and that period is surrounded by an impenetrable libertarian reality distortion bubble.

    21. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Actually its quite easy to burst the libertarians bubble, you ought to see the hate I get on YouTube from libertarians because I obliterate their bullshit to the point all they can do is call me dirty names and mod me down.

      Just point out how many murders of peasants were bought and paid for by the corps through their private army the Pinkertons, point out how many superfund sites are still left from that era, how JP Morgan and Rockefeller used their money to crush competition (A staple in the libertarian "magical thinking" is that if there wasn't gov regulations then competition would fix everything) and how many of these dynasties not only were NOT negatively affected by government regulation later but actually thrived on it by having the laws twisted to suit their own needs.

      At the end of the day libertarian-ism, like fascism and communism all comes down to "magical thinking" that ALL hinge on one simple and easily disproved fallacy, that those at the top won't use their power (because in the end that's all money is, power in an easily to carry form) to enrich themselves and royally fuck those below them. You can take ANY point in history from any country and prove this to be a lie, from the USA's libertarian 1800s to the old USSR to the classical fuedal system, in the end the ONE thing you can always count on is those at the top of the food change becoming ever greedier and fucking those at the bottom ever harder.

      This is why I ultimately think the USA and most capitalist countries will fall just like every other empire before it, from the Roman to the British, because those at the top end up so fucking greedy that they will fuck the long term survivability of the country for their own short term gain. As Lenin so aptly put it all those years ago "A capitalist will gladly sell you the rope you intend to hang him with" only if he would have saw what Stalin and pals were gonna do he would have replaced "capitalist" with "those at the top" as its more accurate because its not limited to capitalism.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    22. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually its quite easy to burst the libertarians bubble, you ought to see the hate I get on YouTube from libertarians because I obliterate their bullshit to the point all they can do is call me dirty names and mod me down.

      No offense but that's...not bursting their bubble. They're basically retreating inside their bubble, and shut you out ("lalala I can't hear you")

      You know, the same thing libertarians accuse the rest of us "do when they get modded down and ignored? Clearly it's because there's a socialist groupthink conspiracy mods keeping the libertarians down, and a whole lot of sheep who refuse to hear the truth!

    23. Re:The corruption is FAR, FAR more severe... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Actually that is why I'm either loved or hated anywhere I go on the net (when I told a friend of mine my handle he said "Oh yeah I've heard of you, half the guys I hang out with think you'd be great to have a beer with, the other half hopes you die of ass cancer!") because the two things I absolutely loathe are "magical thinking" and hypocrisy so when i see the same old groupthink and bullshit being spewed as gospel i just have to destroy them with the truth.

      And I actually enjoy it when they run back to their bubble, no different than how I get a nice warm fuzzy feeling when some FOSS zealot calls me shill or astroturfer or troll (I call 'em FOSSies because like Moonies it becomes a religion to them, and those three words are their equivalent of faggot, nigger, and cocksucker) because it lets the entire audience see how full of shit they really are. Its always the same, I'll point out facts which bursts their magical thinking, they will try to come up with a counter, I'll hit them with citations backing up the facts, then it always ends with them calling me filthy names like "shill" or "You're one of THEM!" which just shows everyone how they simply can't come up with any actual evidence to back up their position so all they can do is call names like a 14 year old Halo player that just got spanked.

      So I would argue that it IS bursting their bubble, because the whole point of them pushing their shit on the net is to gain more followers and by pointing out all the holes in their magical thinking all they can do is go "La La La, I'm right faggot, La La LA" which of course makes them look like little punks and helps turn people sitting on the fence AWAY from their cause, thus negating the entire point of placing it on the web in the first place.

      At the end of the day I don't care what "ism" it is, communism, capitalism, libertarianism, it ALL has the same basic flaw, the magical thinking that says "If only X would happen then everyone would play fair and things would be better!" which time and time again has proven to be a lie. It ALWAYS starts the same, the "ism" is implemented and soon after those with wealth start manipulating the rules to consolidate power, it becomes more and more corrupt, until finally the people lose faith in the "ism" and the whole thing, either peacefully or by violent overthrow, collapses only for the whole thing to start over with a different "ism".

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  14. Ya but any time you point it out by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Interesting

    you get laughed at for being a tin foil hatted conspiracy theorist. The trouble is this stuff is so horrible people can't believe it's happening. It's too far removed from reality. Plus their taught from day one that America is the greatest country on earth, and it's hard to get away from a belief that's been ingrained in you since childhood.

    Ever notice how little time Obama spent attacking Romney's policies? The Obama campaign did focus groups and found they couldn't attack Romney on policy because nobody believed he was going to implement them for real. The massive cuts to medicare, social security, tax cuts for the rich, etc. Maybe Romney wasn't really gonna do those things, we'll never know. But either way Obama couldn't convince anyone that he might...

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Ya but any time you point it out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well said! It's come to the point where you don't even have to be creative to be labeled a conspiracy theorist; all you have to do is cite an article in the New York Times to be considered a loon.

      "Huh, yea right, our government has a list of US Civilians to kill without due process; who told you that the Illuminati???"
      "...no, the New York Times did and here are their sources."
      "Sure sure, tell me when you see Bigfoot next."

    2. Re:Ya but any time you point it out by bbelt16ag · · Score: 1

      can i get a link to a source please?

      --
      NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER GIVE UP! "No limitations, no boundaries, there is no reason for them."
    3. Re:Ya but any time you point it out by Dripdry · · Score: 2

      Yep, this. I've learned not to engage in discussions at holidays with family anymore. The only person who believes me is my ex-Navy Seal uncle. He's a really smart guy, a little off, but we both read around the news and just sit there looking around while everyone else says we're crazy. It's not fun.

      --
      -
  15. An interesting variation by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We all know the typical way of presenting news - whenever an (R) does something bad, the party affiliation is right up there, and whenever a (D) does something even more despicable, the party affiliation is omitted and both parties are said to be equally bad. We all know this already. What's interesting about this story is how Blackburn is conspicuously identified an an (R) while Khanna's party affiliation is left blank - even though Khanna is a Republican through and through. An ignorant or negligent observer might conclude that (R) are uniquely and despicably evil while (D) never seem to be attached to anything bad.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    1. Re:An interesting variation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This really just shows your bias in picking news sources than any media conspiracy. Watch Fox News for an hour and you will see the opposite picture for example.

    2. Re:An interesting variation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No.

      Actually, if you get your news from Fox you'll find the (R)'s sometimes changed to (D)'s for some of scandal-laden "representatives". You can find these examples pretty easily if you troll through mediamatters unless you're innoculated to believe they LieLieSmear! 24x7 Honorable People.

      Generally, though, I find the Professional Wrestling aspects of the D-R "fight to the finish Sunday!!!" of little interest anymore. The respective paymasters have only slightly different clients but pretty much the same objectives in terms of bamboozling their respective bases while the real legislation is purchased.

  16. Re:surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    money corrupts politics, news @ 11

    Of course, but that is not the problem.
    Most civilised countries throw in jail corrupt politicians. In the US bribery is legalised among other nice things such as torture and abductions (extraordinary renditions), and the penalty is zip, nothing at all. In fact the more bribes, ehm contributions you have the bigger the possibility of finding a job in the bribing industry right after leaving Congress.
    HBR is correct, the US is failing not because of bribery, but because there is no mechanism in the system to thwart that threat.

  17. At the risk of bringing raw politics into it... by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Interesting

    this was pointed out during the recent storms (Sandy), and there were several pundits that pointed out that Democrats tended to staff FEMA with professional disaster management folks while the Republicans tended to give those positions out to friends, family and donors. That was why the disaster was as well handled as it was and didn't turn into New Orleans II: The Squeal.

    The hard part about this is even though it's demonstrably true (it's easy to trace the reasons for the FEMA appointments under the two administrations) it's so outlandish to think that a man would appoint someone to such an important position for political points that people just don't believe you when you point it out. Even if you've got the evidence (google it) to back it up...

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    1. Re:At the risk of bringing raw politics into it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah yes, the noble Democrat. May the republic forever be thankful for their kind ways. How they reject nepotism, croneyism. How they make decisions based on science and reason, yet they do not forget compassion. Why, in but a few years, the word 'Sandy' will come to mean 'an organized, efficient emergency response.'

    2. Re:At the risk of bringing raw politics into it... by jodido · · Score: 0

      You obviously don't live in or near New York. No one who saw FEMA up close here would say "the disaster was well handled." In fact is was Katrina II, differing only in scale.

    3. Re:At the risk of bringing raw politics into it... by will_die · · Score: 1

      You need to read something besides your kook sites, there have been plenty of complains from the people and officials about how bad sandy is being run. You even have FEMA officials saying Katernia was better run then what is happening now.

    4. Re:At the risk of bringing raw politics into it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read the book Imperial Life in the Emerald City. The post-war reconstruction of Iraq was a complete disaster because it was staffed by Bush cronies who had no clue what they were doing. It was as an astonishing, almost unbelievable cluster fuck.

    5. Re:At the risk of bringing raw politics into it... by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      That was why the disaster was as well handled as it was and didn't turn into New Orleans II: The Squeal.

      You obviously have not paid attention since the election. Guess what, it is "New Orleans II". It has not been handled any better, the press just isn't reporting on it.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    6. Re:At the risk of bringing raw politics into it... by blackraven14250 · · Score: 1

      I imagine you don't live in the area, since the only real complaints are coming from select portions of Staten Island and Long Island (including Brooklyn). They basically handled New Jersey as well as they could have. SI and LI, however, had issues since the first response from many of the disaster management organizations was to NJ, and the areas in NY didn't get aid until a couple days later when Red Cross/FEMA/etc. resources began arriving from across the country.

    7. Re:At the risk of bringing raw politics into it... by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      Do you honestly believe that Sandy was handled better than Katrina? You must live far, far way from where Sandy hit.

      It was handled worse.

      The difference was the media coverage - that is the only difference.

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
  18. Until pirates have enough money to lobby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Economic rent will accumulate with illegal operators until they have enough money to lobby. Don't count on that doing any good in your lifetime. Marijuana was made illegal in what? 1937? The charge towards legalization is being led by *users* in that case anyway, not producers. Mendocino County was a majority vote against California's prop 19 which would have legalized pot there last year.

    So. Nevermind the theory I put forth in the first paragraph. Economic rent will accumulate until pirates *and* incumbents both have money to lobby. The only way for it to change will be for users to force the change.

  19. I want to say... by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

    I want to say that I'm glad the guy got fired, because he's now become a martyr and a very visible example of how corrupt everything has become.

    Unfortunately, I'm just not that optimistic that it will amount to anything constructive. Things will need to get a whole lot worse before people finally start demanding real change.

    1. Re:I want to say... by geoskd · · Score: 1

      I want to say that I'm glad the guy got fired, because he's now become a martyr and a very visible example of how corrupt everything has become.

      Unfortunately, I'm just not that optimistic that it will amount to anything constructive. Things will need to get a whole lot worse before people finally start demanding real change.

      Actually, the problem is a damn sight worse than that, The only real path to change is through massive wealth redistribution. Taxes are normally used to accomplish this in a socially acceptable fashion. The alternative method uses large quantities of violence... We either need to return to our tax-the-hell-out-of-the-rich method, invent a new alternative, or prepare for the inevitable uprising. In a country with this many guns, its going to be a bloody civil war.

      -=Geoskd

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
  20. Sure, it's the copyrights fault. by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

    The inability to copy previously copyrighted items is strangling INNOVATION? Perhaps they don't understand the word innovation.

    --
    Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    1. Re:Sure, it's the copyrights fault. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is. Believe it or not, it's perfectly possible to use previously copyrighted items in innovative ways.

      It's also screwing over the public domain, but I digress.

    2. Re:Sure, it's the copyrights fault. by geoskd · · Score: 1

      The inability to copy previously copyrighted items is strangling INNOVATION? Perhaps they don't understand the word innovation.

      Short answer, Yes it is.

      The longer version is that if Disney et al had to give up their lucrative umpteenth anniversary collectors edition release income, they would be forced to go to greater lengths to find and fund creative new works. Instead they milk money from works that have long ago contributed to society, and draw those funds away from up and coming new works that should be more properly funded. We grant copyright so that corporations have some ability to extract a profit in exchange for paying the cost of copying and distribution of works, but giving them a nearly infinite monopoly serves no one except the wealthy who no longer have anything to contribute, and does so at the expense of those who do have something to contribute in the future.

      -=Geoskd

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
    3. Re:Sure, it's the copyrights fault. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > The inability to copy previously copyrighted items is strangling INNOVATION?

      I can give you one example: hedgehog mittens. Do a Google image search with hedgehog mittens and you will how much variation there is. Now, lets say that you have invented, all by yourself a new hedgehog mitten model and you want to start selling hedgehog mittens. Lets also assume that you get rich and famous.

      How likely it is that someone with either similar or very similar hedgehog mittens, wants to get his/hers share of the money and sues you? Lets also say that you want to avoid such a risk and thus you want to check all the existing models to avoid such situation, how would you do it? Sure, the Google helps, but even that is difficult (consider all the languages) and not everything is in Google either. It is impossible to check that no-one has used that model.

      Second best thing is that you can prove that you invented those hedgehog mittens all by yourself. How do you do that? Very rarely this has been done in the court by providing diary containing details of the process as the final product evolved from the scratch. But how many people keep such diaries?

      So if you want to be innovative and get rich by doing that, you are surfing on luck.

      Also, lets say that you see a very cute pair of hedgehog mittens and you think they they would look even better with bigger eyes, so you would like to take the existing work and improve it, but you can't.

      Is it too much asked that I want to make and sell hedgehog mittens? Why does this world have to be so complicated!

    4. Re:Sure, it's the copyrights fault. by Jmc23 · · Score: 1
      Good tasting kool-aid isn't it?

      Deep down, you know your argument is a wash. This is Disney we're talking about. It's not like they haven't made any new characters or new movies. They make money off of selling characters to be stamped onto anything that can be sold to children. Allowing others to use those characters to sell exactly the same crap isn't innovating anything, it's just helping the dumb people who can't come up with ideas on their own.

      I think you would be extremely hard pressed to find any intelligent innovative person saying that the only thing holding them back is copyright. Copyright protects you only from people who don't have a product themselves.

      Now, if you redefine innovation to mean 'distribution of wealth to those lacking the means to come up with a novel idea' then yes, copyright is hurting innovation.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    5. Re:Sure, it's the copyrights fault. by ultranova · · Score: 1

      The inability to copy previously copyrighted items is strangling INNOVATION? Perhaps they don't understand the word innovation.

      Advancement requires building on that which came before. Copyright's concept of derivative works interferes very badly with this.

      Not that it really matters, copyright is dead and buried in everywhere except large-scale commercial distribution and will eventually die even there. It's a classic case of thightening the grip too much and having every star system slip past the fingers. Even the fear of Death Fines can't save the Empire anymore.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    6. Re:Sure, it's the copyrights fault. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Deep down, you know your argument is a wash.

      Deep down, you know you're 100% incorrect. You can tell I'm correct because I can read minds!

      Allowing others to use those characters to sell exactly the same crap isn't innovating anything

      And long copyright durations don't seem to be helping anything, either. That said, it's perfectly possible to innovate using old characters.

  21. The Magic Number 435 by grumling · · Score: 5, Interesting

    We haven't increased the size of the House of Representatives since the 1930s, but the size of the population has grown 3X since then. The House is supposed to grow (and shrink) with population, yet it has not for nearly 100 years. Are we to believe we have the same level of representation as our great grandparents? Just try to get your Representative on the phone, for example. You might be able to reach him if you have a campaign check, but even that's doubtful these days.

    Why is this relevant to the conversation? Because $435 million is a drop in the bucket for most companies, while you'll likely never see your Representative in person, let alone sit down with him/her and voice your opinion. The corporations don't care about who or which party gets elected, just so they remember who cut them the million dollar donation.

    But imagine if there were 1000 or more Representatives. Now how easy would it be for corps to buy the Congress? Yes, a lot of the activity would just switch over to the Senate, but both houses have to agree to get legislation passed.

    --
    "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
    1. Re:The Magic Number 435 by AntiBasic · · Score: 0

      >Because $435 million is a drop in the bucket for most companies,

      Also, money grows on trees.

    2. Re:The Magic Number 435 by alen · · Score: 1

      the size of congress is spelled out in the constitution moron

      every 10 years there is a census and the results determine which states lose representatives and which states gain them

    3. Re:The Magic Number 435 by David_Hart · · Score: 2

      the size of congress is spelled out in the constitution moron

      every 10 years there is a census and the results determine which states lose representatives and which states gain them

      The size of congress was originally set out to be 1 congressman for as few as 30,000 citizens in the constitution. Now it is closer to 1 congressman for 600,000 or more citizens. Changes were made by congress to keep the size at, or around, 435. See Wikipedia on "History of the United States Congress". Also look up a Frobes article called "The Ultimate Congressional Reforms".

    4. Re:The Magic Number 435 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the size of congress is spelled out in the constitution moron

      Yes, the Constitution specifies that "The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand." That would be over 10,000 representatives nowadays. 435 comes from the Reapportionment Act of 1929, and another act could change it to 1,000 and not come close to exceeding what the Constitution allows. But even if that would solve anything (actually, especially if it would solve anything), the corporations would contribute plenty of money to make sure it was never passed.

    5. Re:The Magic Number 435 by Guy+Harris · · Score: 4, Informative

      the size of congress is spelled out in the constitution moron

      Article I, section 2, says:

      Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this union, according to their respective numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three years after the first meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent term of ten years, in such manner as they shall by law direct. The number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty thousand, but each state shall have at least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the state of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolina five, South Carolina five, and Georgia three.

      (with the first sentence updated by section 2 of the 14th Amendment, further updated by the 19th and 26th Amendments), so, if "the number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty thousand", that allows up to about 10,000 Representatives.

      The Constitution doesn't explicitly say how many Representatives there should be per person, it just says that number must be less than or equal to 1/30000 of the population, So "The House is supposed to grow (and shrink) with population, yet it has not for nearly 100 years." is not true and the size of Congress is not explicitly spelled out in the Constitution.

      Blame for Congress not having grown in size can be laid at the feet of Public Law 62-5.

    6. Re:The Magic Number 435 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, most us currency is made of cotton, not wood.

    7. Re:The Magic Number 435 by dryeo · · Score: 1

      There is a mechanism to fix this called a constitutional amendment. In this case the amendment has already been proposed, at that it was the first one ever proposed and has been ratified by 11 States. Since it has no expiry date it is not too late to pass it, just like the second proposed amendment was finally passed as the 27th amendment.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_the_First

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    8. Re:The Magic Number 435 by grumling · · Score: 1

      Fiat money grows exponentially. I'd rather it grow on trees. http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Criticism_of_fractional_reserve_banking

      --
      "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
  22. Oh FFS. by AmazingRuss · · Score: 0

    You want to draw cartoon characters? Make up your own characters. Do we really need a swarm of knockoff Disney crap?

  23. Vulture Capitalists by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Like Bain and the guys that did Hostess in are what's scaring me. Basically guys with money and connections come in, buy a company, and then immediately start raiding the pension funds and paying themselves huge consulting fees from the loans they take out on the business' good name. Then they blame the whole sodding mess on workers making 45k/yr and unions and shut the whole thing down and move it to Mexico where slave labor abounds.
    br> These guys are what'll stop innovation. They've got it so good (because they're so damn rich) they don't care about innovation. They become intensely, frighteningly conservative. There what's moved the US so far right these days. They don't want anything to change since they're makin' out like bandits. Hell, they've made progress (as in 'progressive') a bad word...

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    1. Re:Vulture Capitalists by blackraven14250 · · Score: 1

      Just keep in mind that there's all sorts of different venture capital groups, of which Bane et al. are only one specific subset.

    2. Re:Vulture Capitalists by Richard+Dick+Head · · Score: 1

      Conspiracy theories aside, just like everything else in real life I'd say its probably a little more mundane than that. C-level jobs are soul sucking, and these people live to work rather than work to live. These people don't see their wife or their kids often. How much is that worth?

      Then consider the sinking ship that Hostess was. Imagine you were on that crew. You have a career to consider. Would you want to stick around and run that mess? How much $$$ would it take to get you to stick around and continue to miss out on your family and captain the Titanic, even through when it sinks it'll probably publicly destroy your career? (Which it basically did for these people)

      Enlightened self-interest 101. I'm pretty sure everyone here would negotiate the same terms. Want me to stick around? Show me the $$$! Even though the smart thing to do would have been to leave no matter how much money the board would approve.

      They knew they were screwed when they took $1 salaries. They were making the news. "Oh boy, there went our careers!"


      The whole backlash that Bain and friends have been getting has a fairly mundane basis as well. People that staff these consulting companies are top talent. Brilliant people who went to the best schools, eat the best peas and carrots, and are hand-picked for their ability to be a brilliant tactician. Now when the business is built and the consultants pack their bags and go home....who is left to run the show? Oh, the not so brilliant people left behind (otherwise they'd be working for Bain). Who probably have a great deal more money than they did before, and so they're just not as motivated, and would just as soon let the company fail so they'd have more time to spend on the beach.

      Nobody is gonna come out and say ANY of this on the public stage, that would be a career-killer for sure, since it'd basically showcase that human nature makes their business model bad in the long run. Maybe it'd sell a few books, but not many. They're happy to let the average PHB-in-training look at it from the outside and hate Bain and what they do, Bain continues to be an astounding success at what they put their hands on, and life goes on.

  24. Easy to say by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    when you've already got a successful business. There's a reason most of Disney's stuff is retreads of old tales. It's much easier to sell something tried, true tested and familiar. Later on when you're established and you've got a steady flow of cash in payin' the bills you can get to real innovation. The thing people like to ignore is that most big innovation is built on past successes. Just about all the big guys in tech got there because their parents were well enough off to support them while they fucked around getting something off the ground. Try doing that around a 40-50 hour work schedule. Doesn't happen.

    Disney et. all are monopolizing those stories. Hell, that Harry potter twat has sued people copying the framework of her stories that she herself stole.

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    1. Re:Easy to say by alen · · Score: 1

      until disney bought pixar their animation was in the toilet except for a few TV characters they made up

      people aren't going to buy crap based on 100 year old characters perpetually. and they didn't. lot of new stuff over the last few years has been better than almost anything disney has done in decades

    2. Re:Easy to say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are you defending the evil nonsense known as perpetual copyright, alen? Do you not care about the constitution? Do you not care about the public domain? Do you have some sort of mental illness that forces you to defend evil corporations?

    3. Re:Easy to say by AmazingRuss · · Score: 1

      Disney doesn't own the fairy tales. They own the characters they created.

    4. Re:Easy to say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And they shouldn't be able to 'own' them for such a ridiculous amount of time.

    5. Re:Easy to say by ae1294 · · Score: 1

      What the hell are you talking about? Where do you think snow white and most of the other Disney characters came from? Fairy tales from 100's of years ago dumb ass.

  25. US corruption is very extreme by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The extent of corruption in the United States is not well known. A sitting Senator did an interview with CSPAN with little to no filtering about the variety, methods and scale of the corruption. After I saw the show it was clear to me why the founding fathers presumed we would have an Article V Constitutional Convention every 20-40 years. We have had none. I am seriously considering suggesting a parliamentary system as an improvement.

    Our handling of money is aggregious and deeply self destructive

    http://booktv.org/Program/14027/In+Depth+Senator+Tom+Coburn.aspx

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Convention

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution

    "In framing the Constitution as the fundamental embodiment of such safeguards, the Constitutional Convention assembled in Philadelphia in 1787,[6] at the invitation of the Continental Congress.[7] That is the last time a federal constitutional convention has convened in the United States."

    "Every state except Hawaii has applied for an Article V convention at one time or another. The majority of such applications were made in the 20th century. While there is no official count of the number of applications, one private count puts the total number of applications at over 700.[14][15]"

    "States have requested that Congress convene an Article V convention to propose amendments on a variety of subjects. According to the National Archives, Congress has, however, never officially tabulated the applications"

  26. The People... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ...have the government they deserve. Start "throwing your vote away" or sit down and shut up. (Cue Democrats talking about Republicans misdeeds while ignoring their own party's misdeeds. Rah rah sisboomba.)

  27. The Government is missing out on huge revenues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    All that they have to do is revoke all Copyright extensions from the last century, and revert all existing copyright expiration dates to their original dates, subject to the following:

    If the copyright holder wants to extend the copyright, there will be a fee of 1 Million USD per year, per work to do so, doubling each year for that work. This dollar amount is a suggestion - but it should be punitive enough to discourage copyright extensions from being made, and keep the list from getting too big.

    Create a website that lists all of the works that have had their copyright extended. All other works revert to the public domain at their normal copyright expiration dates. Back when copyrights were originally extended, this would have required a paper distribution of the list, with yearly updates. Now, thanks to the internet, the cost of distributing that list is essentially free.

    This would serve two purposes: (1) allow the works to enter public domain as they were originally intended, and (2), generate tons of revenue for the federal government for each work that is restricted from the public domain. This is Win-Win.

    This will allow Disney to continue to retain the copyright on Steamboat Willie indefinitely, or as long as they are willing to pay. If the copyright would have expired, it would have only affected that work, not Mickey Mouse in general (which is trademarked). All it would mean is that someone could watch and distribute Steamboat Willie without paying Disney - not that anybody could create their own Mickey Mouse cartoon. Our public domain has been robbed of millions of works because of this idiocy.

    1. Re:The Government is missing out on huge revenues by shentino · · Score: 1

      Not good enough.

      Government already proved it was willing to retroactively extend copyright on things that had already entered the public domain.

    2. Re:The Government is missing out on huge revenues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You realize that Disney and the like basically own the government, right? As if Disney would allow such a system to ever come into existence.

  28. rent seeking, not corruption by stenvar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Although people are often sloppy about the distinction, strictly speaking, that's rent seeking, not corruption. The difference is important. Corruption suggests a criminal offense, and it suggests that the solution is more laws, regulation, and law enforcement. But if you try to fix rent seeking with additional laws, you're just throwing gasoline on the fire, since people will figure out how to use the new laws to their advantage as well.

    Rent seeking grows with the size and power of government. The only way to reduce it is to reduce the size of government.

    1. Re:rent seeking, not corruption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Although people are often sloppy about the distinction, strictly speaking, that's rent seeking, not corruption. The difference is important. Corruption suggests a criminal offense, and it suggests that the solution is more laws, regulation, and law enforcement. But if you try to fix rent seeking with additional laws, you're just throwing gasoline on the fire, since people will figure out how to use the new laws to their advantage as well.

      Rent seeking grows with the size and power of government. The only way to reduce it is to reduce the size of government.

      Nonsense. Rent seeking exists independent from government. Certain government regulations make it more convenient. But, at least in terms of copyright, government could put a reasonable expiration date on it and that would help the problem.
       

    2. Re:rent seeking, not corruption by shentino · · Score: 1

      Especially when their own lobbyists are the ones writing the laws in the first place while dumb politicians just rubber stamp them.

  29. Re:What does MIcky Mouse have to do with innovatio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's not Mickey Mouse per se. The subject is the corruption of the legal protections granted through patents & copyrights. Originally, it was argued that there should be a period of time during which a creator would have exclusive right to profit from his work. Copyrights are for creative works, and Disney is the copyright holder of all things Mickey Mouse.

    The Mickey Mouse Law is a nickname for the Copyright Term Extension Act that was sponsored by then California senator Sonny Bono to increase the length of the copyright generally, but it was specifically (and some would argue corruptly) created to protect the Disney corporation's dynasty built around the Mickey Mouse brand. It was passed just in the nick of time to save Disney from losing Mickey. If the copyright lapsed, Disney would have lost the exclusive right to control the use of Mickey's image, license its use in exchange for royalties and exercise its right to control who does anything with Mickey for profit. (It is VERY lucrative.) And so yet another in a series of legal extensions to the term of all copyrights was enacted by Congress.

    The patent system grants similar rights of control, licensing and discrimination to the owner of a any industrial innovation. That's been extended and amplified in ways that are questionable, like the patenting of genetic sequences which were not created at all but which can become the exclusive property of some corporation for the term of the patent none-the-less. And since the definition of what's patentable is subject broad it's been refined by the courts and Congress. And it's applied very broadly within the patent office.

    The patent office and its operations have been a political battleground since the Constitution was originally constructed. Jefferson and Madison disagreed on whether such rights should be granted at all. Jefferson originally argued against such exclusive rights, and when Madison convinced him that copyright was a legitimate benefit, he argued that the term should be limited to 1/2 the average lifespan of the author, in order to ensure that subsequent generation's rights were not subordinated to the wealth built during their antecedent's tenure. Jefferson argued that the length of protection had to fair to up and coming next generation. Our current politics has lost sight of this in favor of monied interests, both as regards copyright and patents.

    As technology is evermore complex because it builds incrementally on previous innovation, the patent system becomes more confused. The nature innovation is arguable, and therefore the courts are more and more the judge of what should be protected. Many argue the system itself is ripe for change.

    A new Mickey Mouse is in order, if you will.

  30. How is copyright related to innovation? by wiredlogic · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't see the point of this article. It seems to be based on the common conflation of copyright, trademarks, and patents.

    Copyright terms have no bearing on innovation. It restricts the creation of unauthorized copies and derivative works to the domain of fair use until the term of the copyright expires. These activities are, by their very nature, not innovative. I fail to see how the continual extension of copyright duration impacts innovation in any way.

    --
    I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    1. Re:How is copyright related to innovation? by nbauman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Back in the 1950s, there was a publisher called Dover, that reprinted out-of-print classics, mostly math and science orphan books that science students had to read an hour at a time on reserve in the university library. (There were professors who owned a rare book that nobody else could get, and could give an entire course by paraphrasing from the book.)

      Dover was very successful, because there was a great need for these books that the free market wasn't otherwise filling. I read many of their books. I thought that was pretty innovative.

      You couldn't do that today. There are important math and science books that are out of print, and nobody can legally reprint them. You might find them in a big academic library, you might be able to buy them on the rare books market for $200, you might be able to find pirated editions, but you can't legally get them when you need them under these copyright laws.

      Similarly with the music industry. There was a record publisher called Nonsuch that used to put out cheap records of public domain or uncopyrighted music. (For most of its existence the Soviet Union didn't believe in copyright, and they had some of the best musicians in the world.)

      Probably the most innovative thing you could do with out-of-copyright works is to compile them into an anthology. Under the old copyright laws, you could put together a pretty good poetry collection of works that were only 14 or 28 years old without royalties. Now you can't do that. You'd have to wait until 100 years after the death of the author.

    2. Re:How is copyright related to innovation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If copyright terms lasted forever, then Disney would have had their asses sued off for Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, etc. by the inheritors of the Grimm brothers.

      Copyright isn't supposed to be like staking out land property forever. Eventually there won't be a single idea that doesn't overlap somehow with some previously-created work, at least to the point that a lawyer can make the argument and demand compensation for straying into their client's territory. Copyright has to expire if only to leave some common space for creativity to occur, even if it is merely revamping old stories like Disney did.

    3. Re:How is copyright related to innovation? by shadowofwind · · Score: 1

      I've bought new Dover books within the past 10 years.

    4. Re:How is copyright related to innovation? by shentino · · Score: 1

      It's called selective enforcement.

      The elite get a blind eye turned to their own misdeeds, but those who aren't in the old boys club get the book thrown at them.

    5. Re:How is copyright related to innovation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dover still exists and still uses the same model. http://store.doverpublications.com/ Their math and science collection goes well into reprints from the 1970s.

    6. Re:How is copyright related to innovation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry for AC, but what books specifically? I just want examples.

    7. Re:How is copyright related to innovation? by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 1

      A work can be "creative" and "derivative" at the same time. For example, much of Shakespeare.

    8. Re:How is copyright related to innovation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you asking for Dover books that are reprints of 1970s (and possibly later) texts? I'm a different AC but I believe there are many such books. e.g.: A Guide to Feynman Diagrams in the Many-Body Problem (Dover Books on Physics)

    9. Re:How is copyright related to innovation? by pweidema · · Score: 1

      They may have been "new", but they were reprints of things that went out of copyright before the changes started in 1976. (see Effect of 1976 Copyright Law with Amendments of 1992 and 1998 http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ15t.pdf)

    10. Re:How is copyright related to innovation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dover publications is alive and well http://store.doverpublications.com/

      for something similar but possibly geekier also see
      http://www.lindsaybks.com/

      Not a publisher exactly, but you might also check out:
      http://lateralscience.blogspot.com/

      hmm.. my AC CAPTHCA is 'autocrat'

  31. you're missing the real corruption by stenvar · · Score: 1, Interesting

    this was pointed out during the recent storms (Sandy), and there were several pundits that pointed out that Democrats tended to staff FEMA with professional disaster management folks while the Republicans tended to give those positions out to friends, family and donors

    You're missing the real "corruption" here, namely that people choose to live in areas predictably endangered by hurricanes, can't get insurance or don't bother to pay for it, and then decade after decade rely on the federal government to pay for the damage that invariably occurs.

    Obama just requested $60bn of handouts to these people. Why should someone living in a safe and boring place trying to make ends meet pay so that people in The Hamptons have their beach front properties taken care of by the federal government?

    1. Re:you're missing the real corruption by the_humeister · · Score: 1

      West coast: earthquakes. Mid-west: tornadoes. East coast and south: hurricanes. So where exactly do you propose people live where there aren't any natural disasters looming?

    2. Re:you're missing the real corruption by gmhowell · · Score: 2

      A real American would have a half dozen or more homes in different areas, flying from one to the next depending on which one will be rebuilt due to the next natural disaster. Anything else is just one of the 47% asking something for nothing.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    3. Re:you're missing the real corruption by stenvar · · Score: 1

      West coast: earthquakes. Mid-west: tornadoes. East coast and south: hurricanes. So where exactly do you propose people live where there aren't any natural disasters looming?

      Natural disasters are possible anywhere, the question is how probable they are, how you prepare, and who insures them. By insuring people in high risk areas for free, the federal government encourages settlement in such area and discourages people from taking appropriate precautions; it amounts to a large subsidy for people living in those areas. It's worse than that, though. You'd hope that such a subsidy would lower the cost of houses in those areas, but it doesn't; the market just adjusts for it, and the now insured-for-free homes are as expensive as they would have been without free government insurance. And worst of all, you remove any incentive for people to minimize cost and risk when moving to disaster prone areas. So, in different words, people would live in exactly the same places they are living right now but they would be paying less for their homes and live in safer houses.

      And if you really don't like the risk, there are plenty of safe places around the country; anything that's not dark brown or dark red is fairly low risk:

      http://www.inscenter.com/info-center/disaster-planning/risk-profile

    4. Re:you're missing the real corruption by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Romney?

  32. Well sure but.... by gelfling · · Score: 1

    There's always billions of dollars laying around to pay lawyers to sue everyone else for a few billion other dollars.

    Apple Macht Frei

  33. Farewell to Hollywood by Tokolosh · · Score: 1

    We are in the middle of a huge, global experiment. One the one side we have the American model of almost infinite copyright, fiercely defended by the RIAA and MPAA middlemen, who load on extra costs while a pittance goes to the artists – see http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-08-27/entertainment/bs-ae-sugarman-film-20120824_1_strydom-royalty-checks-music-industry for an example.

    On the other side, we have the rest of the world, where copyright does not exist or cannot be practically enforced. Where people in the industry really have to hustle and be creative to make a dime.

    Which paradigm will prevail? My bet is on the open, crowd-sourced concept. A Korean Psy going Gangnam will become the mainstream (how many DCMA takedowns has he issued?) and the locked-down Americans will fade to obscurity. Your children are going to grow up listening to world music and watching Bollywood for this reason. The Beatles will pass them by because Apple and Apple took so long to come to their senses.

    --
    Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    1. Re:Farewell to Hollywood by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      The problem with your scenario is that Bollywood's product quality sucks, even compared with the mainstream Hollywood movie, let alone with the occasional work of real quality that Hollywood manages to produce.

      What is needed is a middle road - a model that provides a mechanism that promotes high quality and at the same time doesn't lock up content forever.

    2. Re:Farewell to Hollywood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... where copyright does not exist or cannot be practically enforced.

      That's why Hilliary Clinton is jet-setting around the world. To push American laws about 'war on terror', 'war on drugs', music piracy into other countries. Notice 'think of the children' is not included since they make all the clothes.

      The Beatles will pass them by ...

      I see music broadcast being divided into two revenue sources. The techno/hip-hop/rap genres and classic rock genres. Radio stations tend to play one group or the other. Those playing classic rock will give their small town audiences the music from great bands like The Beatles.

    3. Re:Farewell to Hollywood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quantity has a quality all of its own. Just go ask Walmart or Amazon. Or better yet, their competitors.

      Bollywood may not be able to compete with Hollywood on quality today,
      but if Hollywood keeps pricing itself out of the market, then Bollywood will fill the gap and will continue to get better over time.

      In the meantime, Hollywood will eventually starve itself of the very volume/money needed to produce quality experience in the first place.

      And given the improvement in digital equipment over the last few decades, it doesn't cost much to imitate the Hollywood special effects of the seventies an eighties anymore. It is merely a matter of time before even the so-called modern special effects will become quite cheap.

      Beyond that, Hollywood budgets have become so tight in the last decade or so that they can no longer afford good writers - Hollywood movies aren't as good now as they once were.

      So with respect to quality, Hollywood vs Bollywood, when one line is trending down and the other up, sooner or later they will intersect and reverse their ranking.

    4. Re:Farewell to Hollywood by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      > And given the improvement in digital equipment over the last few decades, it doesn't cost much to imitate the Hollywood special effects of the seventies an eighties anymore. It is merely a matter of time before even the so-called modern special effects will become quite cheap.

      Film quality has NOTHING to do with special effects.

      In fact I'd say that there is somewhat of an inverse correlation.

  34. It makes perfect sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Money is an abstract representation of how much influence you have over other people. Politics is the exercising of influence over other people.

    You can no more take money out of politics than you can take medicine out of health care.

  35. The US economy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is built on corporations. Those corporations have been given the same powers as a normal citizen. Because of that, they can raise funds the normal human can only dream of. As a result, they can fund anything they want when they band together. Human greed will allow those corporations to succeed. Until Corporations are named nonhumans and have no rights or privileges as such, they will continue to get their way, and there is nothing you can do about it. You're human and have a limited bank roll. Even YOU have a price.

  36. Re:The summary is stupid, just as obvious by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 2

    Rep Marsha Blackburn, whose district abuts Nashville and who received more money from the music industry than any other Republican congressional candidate, apparently had the author of the study, Derek Khanna, fired.

    Sounds like she is representing the people she is supposed to represent. If you want a candidate who supports your industry, and your industry has a geographical central location like Silicon Valley, Nashville, Hollywood, or any number of other examples, it makes sense to support the candidate who will best represent you.

    As such, Rep Marsha Blackburn is a terrible example of the problems money causes.

    The article lists many different industries - Automotive, Intellectual Property, Accommodation and Transport, Telecom. The summary focus only on IP, and only on an example which seems like the way things are supposed to work (in the current system, not an optimal system). The other examples are more clear abuses of the system.

    We are to the point where officials spend more time campaigning than working (at times, and it's only a handful, but we've broken that barrier). And it is causing problems, but so much more than just what hype7 pointed out.

  37. Not so straight forward by Grayhand · · Score: 1

    Micky Mouse isn't just copyrighted he's trademarked and trademarks are copyrights on steroids and they don't expire. Disney is one of the worst for enforcing trademarks and probably spend more on lawyers than artists. Micky Mouse and some of the iconic characters are different in that they are in a sense the company much as the Pillsbury Doughboy and Ronald McDonald represent those companies. Without trademark protection another company could create a competing business off the corporate logos and characters that could easily be mistaken for the original company. I have a problem with bottom feeders that never create anything themselves lining their pockets off other people's work. I'm just saying the situation is complicated and not all creative works are equal. I doubt this is all Disney's doing as the summary hints at as evil as their team of lawyer hitmen are. Also since Micky Mouse is largely off the market I think they are more concerned with things like Snow White going public domain. They still make a bundle off those films and characters. Ultimately it's probably why they keep pulling this buy it now before it goes into the vault BS because they know one day the clock will run out and the old cartoons will be effectively worthless.

    1. Re:Not so straight forward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eh.. the character Snow White from the fairy tale has to be public domain.

  38. It is not just copyright. It is not just law. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Fact1 : Any change will create winners and losers. Be it changes in law, changes in technology, changes in business practices, population, demographics, generally accepted social norms... all changes will create winners and losers.

    Fact 2: Most winners will not know they are going to be winners. Most losers can see they are going to be getting the short end of the stick

    Fact 3: The losing side will fight tooth and nail to avert it.

    When the side that is going to lose is rich and powerful, they employ very powerful techniques to avoid it or postpone it. They will buy out the competitors, engage in collusion, pay the legislators (legally or illegally), spread misinformation, doubt and feat, anything. It is very instructive to read the book by the University of Chicago professor, Dr Raghuram Rajan, Saving Capitalism from the Capitalists

    Copyright is one place where we can see the dynamics playing out very clearly and use it as an opportunity to educate the public.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:It is not just copyright. It is not just law. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... spread misinformation, doubt and fear ...

      That's why we can't educate the public. They've already accepted the lie that copyrights protect artists.

      The short version of capitalism being everything is for sale: virginity, land, water, equality, killing. Corporations just have the legal/financial/propaganda power to make everyone think it's business as normal.

  39. Who does this kind of "economic manipulation" more by DarthVaderDave · · Score: 1

    a) Democrats b) Republicans c) Neither, they both do it evenly.

  40. Sad New World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In former times, when the US economy was based on the production of real goods and the services based upon those goods, no one cared at all about such cartoon crap.

    Now, however, when Disney and its ilk become major economic forces, the protection and nurturance of such frivolous icons is paramount. The whole thing is a sad commentary on contemporary society.

  41. How about a crowdfunded anti-copyright lobbyist? by Optic7 · · Score: 1

    I just had this idea when I saw this story on Slashdot. These corporations that use their power and money to continuously expand copyright are in fact using our own money against us. The very same dollars that we pay Hollywood, Nashville, et al for the latest CD or DVD are being used for lobbying to increase their power and riches in the form of longer and more draconic copyrights.

    What if we turned this around? What if instead of buying the latest CD, MP3, DVD, etc we put that same money into a crowdfunding campaign to start a professional lobbying effort to restore a sane level of copyrights? There have been several kickstarter campaigns now that have gone into the multiple millions of dollars. I would imagine that that would be a nice amount to at least start an organization to begin this lobbying.

    It struck me that I don't know of anyone who is actually representing the general public on this fight against endless copyright. It basically seems like RIAA/MPAA/etc lobbyists against no one. Guess who wins in such a lopsided argument? If you do know of organizations that are putting up a fight for us, I would love to hear about them, and perhaps such a money bomb could be directed at them.

  42. Recognize human nature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Capitalism, in its essential form, always promotes an upward mobility of wealth.

    In theory, the lower class labors to create wealth, organized by the upper class. Also in theory, those creating the wealth get to keep a good chunk of it, while some of it flows upwards. Usually the producers don't keep physical instances of what they produce...they get their share in the form of wages, but the net effect is the same.

    In practice, the organizers always, and always will, exploit their position as organizers to ensure that more wealth moves up than stays down. Why wouldn't they? Every human in the world has a direct incentive to increase their personal wealth, and capitalism considres such ambition to be a virtue. So, it is exactly what happens, every time.

    The rich only create jobs when they can receive more wealth than they expend by doing so. They do not create jobs for the sake of pushing wealth downwards...they have zero incentive to do this.

    People who adore capitalism get really angry when they see huge wealth disparities like this, considering it to be some sort of corrupt mis-application of capitalistic principles. In reality, this state is the clear and inescapable net-effect of a properly-functioning capitalistic economy. It has happened before in history, and it will happen again.

    Note...I am not proposing that we should switch to communism. It is much worse. I am just pointing out that human nature is what drives these results, and that isn't going to change, period. This isn't so much a problem that needs solving as it is an environment to which we should adapt (and, if we don't like the results, develop new and better adaptive strategies).

    1. Re:Recognize human nature by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The odd thing about it is that corporations, by their very nature, should not be able to survive in a purely capitalist society, simply due to their overhead.

      Every worker has to get his employer more than he costs. By principle. Else, why employ him? If the work you do gets me 2000 but you cost me 3000, I'm better off without you.

      Now consider that every person can only work as hard as they can. They don't work any better in a corporation environment. If anything, they work worse because the value they produce doesn't go into their own pockets, taking away a huge incentive to work as hard as you could: Getting anything out of working harder. Most people are paid by the hour, not by their workload, so the sensible thing to do for a worker is to invest the bare minimum of work to keep the job, not produce as hard and fast as possible (what would be sensible if they were self employed and hence more work instantly translates to higher pay).

      Also consider the overhead needed to keep people productive, from whip-cracking middle management to strategical considerations at C-level. They don't produce at all, they organize and supervise. Something completely unnecessary in self employment. I'm my own superviser and I have to manage myself. And while the latter does actually cut into my productive time, it's by no means anything as expensive as the average C-Level exec, not by a longshot.

      So ... how do corporations survive? They're pretty much anathema to anything capitalist.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  43. Re:The summary is stupid, just as obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like she is representing the people she is supposed to represent

    Really? Do you honestly believe that, as a percentage of the population of people in her district, the majority are served by this position? I would counter that most of her district's population, are middle and lower class earners, who, like the rest of us, are disserved by this practice. Sure she's serving the wealthy IP-holders of her area (which quite probably has more of them per capita than most districts), but don't get up here and tell me that she's representing the best interests of the overall population of her district....

    -AC

  44. YES!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They even had a Tea Party event to celebrate handing out the dough. Weren't you invited?

    Apparently it's not only the system, but also your view of it, that's warped. I agree that subsidizing the value and affordability of disaster prone real estate is a corruption of the federal government's responsibility. If the private insurance industry can't handle the risk management for building on a piece of property, then it shouldn't be left to the federal government to cover the loss. That being said, it's absolutely ridiculous to hang this situation around the neck of a sitting president.

    Perhaps a system that limited the federal government's financial response for a natural disaster to a one-time per parcel payout might provide the necessary incentive for people to move to higher ground. If people can't afford the loss of a vacation home or the insurance necessary to protect them, it shouldn't be anyone else's problem.

    I've always been of the opinion that lakeshore, riparian and coastal properties should be left to nature anyway. These eco-zones and the wild living systems which occupy them are important assets that have been overlooked and trampled by 'ownership' and the selfish interests of humans, at the expense of dwindling natural diversity, as well as the promotion of ridiculously lavish, wasteful and destructive behavior of the wealthy.

    If we'd respected nature, natural life, weather and risk, we'd have focused more on building safer, more sustainable engineered systems, architecture, cite and urban planning and thoughtful accommodations across the board. We'd have more densely populated cities, fewer people, greater opportunity to enjoy a cleaner, healthier outdoors. Reduced risk for lower income people in health, education, safety and lifestyles, greater awareness of our selves, the value of life in general and a more peaceful society.

    But it would come at what appears to be an unacceptable cost. We'd have to focus on cooperation rather than competition, equanimity rather than disparity, peaceful coexistence rather than strife and warfare, discussion and development of shared goals and values rather than dogma and power as determinant factors of social status, and we'd have to teach our children to respect one another rather than climb over each others' backs to consume as much as possible.

    We'd have to grow up.

  45. Re:surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They're called enumerated powers and they're defined clearly in the constitution, thanks.

  46. Lobbying = corruption by OldSport · · Score: 3, Insightful

    My old econ professor said "in the USA, you call it lobbying. In my country and in others, they call it corruption." We have this culture of just accepting it as part of politics when really it should be strictly outlawed, but obviously the only people who will outlaw it are the cunts being paid to keep it legal. Short of a revolution, we are basically fucked. Not in a catastrophic way, but in a "slow, inexorable slide to the bottom" kind of way.

  47. Slow Learner by westlake · · Score: 1

    The free-to-view HTML 5 YouTube video?

    It's already here, courtesy Disney Animation. Walt Disney Animations Steamboat Willie

    If you want to better that, you have a problem.

    The expiration of the copyright on Steamboat Willie doesn't give you access to primary sources. It doesn't give you the money for restoration.

    Steamboat Willie was released on nitrate stock using the Powers Cinephone sound-on-film system.

    Maybe MoMA will lend you a print.

    The expiration of the copyright doesn't give you access to the Disney archives. I remember a "Disneyland" episode recreating the original post-production recording session --- one of the first of its kind --- with the surviving crew and sound effects gear.

    Extras like that make the DVD.

    The expiration of the copyright on Steamboat Willie doesn't give you the trademarked character designs for the Mouse, Minnie, Pete and the rest. It doesn't give you the right to produce anything but recognizable derivatives of Steamboat Willie.

    No Goofy. No Pluto.

    No Phantom Blot from the comic strips. No Sorcerer's Apprentice from "Fantasia."
    .

  48. Re:What makes you think Dover is gone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hi -

    I re-sell lots of books, and Dover is certainly still around.

    http://store.doverpublications.com/

    - TWR

  49. Re:surprise by Stormthirst · · Score: 1

    Enumerated powers - Founding Fathers sponsored corruption. It's still corruption, thanks

  50. Uh, they don't really 'choose' you know by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    when you're a poor ass rust belt or New Orleans worker you live where you're born and you stay there because moving is expensive. I 140 miles for a job and it ended up costing me $2k. You are correct that it's awful that we bail out the rich while ignoring the poor though. Socialize the loses, privatize the profits.

    Also, $60 Billion dollars really isn't a lot of money. It just seems like a lot because to one person it is. And I think my main point is that under Democratic leadership most of that $60 billion won't go to rebuilding $5+ million dollar homes. It'll go to rebuilding $50-$100k homes.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Uh, they don't really 'choose' you know by stenvar · · Score: 1

      Also, $60 Billion dollars really isn't a lot of money.

      That's about $200 per American. That's a lot of money.

      And I think my main point is that under Democratic leadership most of that $60 billion won't go to rebuilding $5+ million dollar homes. It'll go to rebuilding $50-$100k homes.

      What planet are you from? There are no "$50-$100k homes" near the ocean where Sandy struck. And if there were, why should I pay for them to rebuild?

  51. case about trademarked public domain works by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dastar_Corp._v._Twentieth_Century_Fox_Film_Corp.

    Fox work goes into public domain, Dastar makes use of it, Fox tried to use trademark law to go after Dastar for that, Supreme Court says you can't do that.

    --
    I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
  52. see previous post on copyright/trademark combo by KingAlanI · · Score: 1
    --
    I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
  53. Re:The summary is stupid, just as obvious by smaddox · · Score: 1

    I'm confused. Are there a lot of copyright holders in the Tennessee 7th District? Because I had this silly notion that US Congressman were supposed to represent the PEOPLE in their district, and not the highest bidder.

  54. more depth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I expected an article with more depth from Harvard

  55. In other news by darkfeline · · Score: 1

    The 109887th person to state the obvious that "Campaign contributions in America constituion legal bribery" was shot in 15.6 seconds. This is a 0.3 second improvement over the 109886th person. In the previous event, the person's collegues apparently "fumbled when reaching for their weapons". Thankfully, their daily quick-draw practice sessions seem to be paying off.

  56. Mickey who? by Funk_dat69 · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure how much innovation is being strangled, but one thing that's certain is the damage to Mickey's popularity.

    When was the last time that a Mickey Mouse cartoon was released? Do kids today even know who he is?
    Can you imagine if all the old Mickey cartoons where on PBS constantly? It would probably endear kids to him all over again and send a new wave of kids to Disney parks. How is there a downside? It seems crazy to me to pass up the value that those old 'toons have - to both the culture and to Disney in the form of free brand publicity.

    Instead they rot in the 'vault' and Disney parks are full of old 'IP' that fewer and fewer people recognize.
    Genius!

    --
    FUNK!
    1. Re:Mickey who? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Disney saw that happening and has already moved to correct it. See Playhouse Disney on Disney Kids channel. It prominently features Mickey, Minny, and Pluto.

  57. What's that? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did you say that US copyright is strangling U.S. innovation and corruption is feeding it?

    Oh, wait, I read that backwards.

  58. What the US really needs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If only we could clone Ronald Reagen, he would get our economy back on track! Merica, fuck yea!

  59. If voting were meaningless, by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 1

    they wouldn't work so hard to suppress it.

  60. Re:The summary is stupid, just as obvious by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Supposed? Well, if you mean by the spirit of the law, sure, but actually, it's a bit more tricky.

    You see, to run for an office you need more money than any honest person could possibly have earned during a lifetime. Well, ok, not quite, you could save up a few decades and run. Once. But who'd do that, save up 30 years worth of incomes just to run for an office once and pray they get elected?

    Instead you need someone to sponsor you. Now, you could of course go door to door and collect a few bucks per person, and spend those decades begging, or you could go to where the money is at: Corporations. Because they got more money than any honest person. They even got more money than their own CEOs! That's where the money is and that's where you can get it.

    Now, corporations don't just give away money. They don't donate. They buy, rent and invest.

    Bottom line: Be a corporation whore or be prepared to never get elected because nobody's ever going to know that you're running.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  61. You're both right; both prove copyright too long by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The very fact that Disney is still making new material proves that they cannot make boatloads of money
    off of Mickey Mouse infinitum.

    Consider how much time transpires in between movie "remakes". For example, there was the Disney movie
    "Escape to Witch Mountain" released in 1975. Disney released "Race to Witch Mountain" in 2009.

    Consider also the protection of content on services such as Youtube. Very little content protection is done on
    that site, *especially* for older material.

    I posit that a scientific study would prove that 20 years is more than ample time in most cases.

  62. Re:You're both right; both prove copyright too lon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oops. I forgot the 1995 remake of "Escape to Witch Mountain".
    So, there were 3 movies, based on the same plot, released in
    a 34 year time period.

  63. Re:The summary is stupid, just as obvious by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    I disagree. I believe that most of her district's population agree with the practice, and with doing anything necessary to prop up the commercial music industry. How well this correlates to those people's actual welfare and prosperity is irrelevant; the only thing important is the voter's opinions. The voters are adults; they're responsible for themselves and voting in their own interests. If they vote against their own interests, that's their own stupid fault.

  64. Part of the problem? Fix it by Chewbacon · · Score: 2

    Money is the key factor there. Perhaps political funding reform is needed? Seems like whoever get the most money and support from those with the most money wins. Political parties were partly designed so Joe Schmo could run for president, but it's a popularity contest where fashion is the dollar.

    --
    Chewbacon
    The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
  65. If you really want to eliminate by p51d007 · · Score: 2

    corruption in the U.S. political system, TERM LIMIT the legislators to ONE term Senate gets ONE term, 10 years, House gets ONE term, 5 years. And at the end of the term, they MUST wait 10 years to run for the other chamber, to prevent them from ending one body of congress, just to get elected to run for the other body. Also, BAN all lobbying. Put K street OUT of business. You want to talk to a congressperson? Go to their LOCAL office in their home district, not DC. Next, congress will meet M-F, from 9am to 5pm, with only the traditional holidays. NO "spring break, NO Christmas (whoops "winter holiday) break. Also, there will be a dormitory built for them to live in while in DC, at no cost to congress. All meals provided for, single rooms. Also, transportation provided by shuttle bus to and from the capital. If you want to bring your own car? That's your business but you will not be refunded for gas/mileage. By doing this, the "hardship" of having to maintain two residencies will be eliminated. Next, all healthcare will be provided to them under the OBAMACARE mandate. They will have to live within the SAME LAWS they pass for everyone else. Doing most of these, and 70% of the career politicians will just give up and leave the chamber on their own free will. What DC needs is an attitude adjustment. They are NOT "kings & queens" to be swooned over and made to think they are above the rest of us. Time for NEW BLOOD in DC, which is what the founding fathers wanted in the first place. Come to DC, stay a few years, return to your home district and let someone else with new ideas come here. What we have now is a different version of the Politburo, but without the crappy soviet ear cars.

    1. Re:If you really want to eliminate by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 1

      Term limits are the WORST idea for someone with your beliefs.

      Here's what you THINK you're doing :

      Stopping people from having to be corporations bitches so they can get money to be elected again.

      and here's what you're REALLY doing:

      Ensuring that whoever runs for office will be a literal employee of corporations both immediately before and immediately after; someone whose career in government amounts to a sabbatical to Congress or the Senate to do the bidding of the corporations who sent him on that sabbatical.

      Here's what you THINK you're doing:

      Keeping "career" politicians our of Washington and giving "regular people" a chance to have that Senate seat.

      and here's what you're REALLY doing:

      Keeping people who are motivated by a strong desire to be effective in getting government to work from ever even considering running for office since only corporate employees get those jobs and anyway even if you get you can't do any good in your single term.

      The way to good governance is through a Constitutional Amendment overturning Citizen's United.

  66. Look at Libertarians by minstrelmike · · Score: 1

    money or votes count. the Libertarians started a few think tanks and I thought they were looking for rules for good government.
    Alas, they were only looking for rules to get them into power. as soon as they discovered you _need_ government to solve the Tragedy of the Commons, They abandoned that approach. Now they are some of the folks talking about a 'free' market without actually saying they mean a market free of competition for businesses that support the Libertarian party. They do not mean a competitive market well-regulated by the government. If they did, they would vote against Monsanto trying to keep GMO announcements off the market. If Monsanto wants to sell Genetically Modified Foods, fine, just label it. Labeling means Monsanto would have to pass along some of the cost-savings to consumers. That's Adam Smith economics. Allowing Monsanto to prevent passing along low prices is now apparently 'Libertarian' economics.

  67. Re:Only an internet nerd could summarize it like t by brit74 · · Score: 1

    I also thought it was interesting that the copyright section didn't really have anything particularly damning to say about it. They're saying that copyright keeps getting extended by companies like Disney due to lobbying, but I was waiting for them to explain how damaging that actually is to society (like they did with the rest of their items). Here's the worst thing they said: "Rather than create an incentive to innovate and develop new characters, the present system has created the perverse situation where it makes more sense for Big Content to make campaign contributions to extend protection for their old work." Oh, ok - the damage of long copyrights isn't that old works are extended; it's that Disney has a disincentive to create new stuff. But, it's pretty clear that Disney *has* been creating new characters, so that sentence was a bit of hyperbole. To name a few off the top of my head:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangled - "Tangled is a 2010 American computer animated musical fantasy-comedy film produced by Walt Disney Animation Studios"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wreck-It_Ralph - "Wreck-It Ralph is a 2012 American 3D computer-animated family-comedy film produced by Walt Disney Animation Studios"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_(2012_film) - "Brave is a 2012 American computer-animated adventure fantasy film produced by Pixar Animation Studios and distributed by Walt Disney Pictures." (Pixar is now owned by Disney)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Mermaid_(1989_film) - "The Little Mermaid is a 1989 American animated musical fantasy film produced by Walt Disney Feature Animation"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion_King - "The Lion King is a 1994 American animated musical drama film produced by Walt Disney Feature Animation"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aladdin_(1992_Disney_film) - "Aladdin is a 1992 American animated musical family film produced by Walt Disney Feature Animation"

    The summary at the end of the article didn't include anything about copyright - "Netflix. Uber. Airbnb. Tesla. Fisker. Most economies would kill to have a set of innovators such as these. And yet at every turn, these companies are running headlong into regulation (or lack thereof) that seems designed to benefit incumbents..." Seems that even the article-writer had a hard time finding the "big damage" caused by long copyright.

    I'm not arguing for long copyrights, by the way. It would be nice to have shorter copyrights - if for no other reason than to give free access to a lot of old stuff, and it seems excessive to allow companies to continue making money off of 50 year-old works. I just think it's interesting that the Slashdot summary and much of the Slashdot readership focuses on long copyrights as some horrible thing (perhaps to delegitimize copyright in general, and therefore, legitimize piracy). The damage of long copyright and the outrage it creates on Slashdot just seem disproportional, that's all.

  68. Re:The summary is stupid, just as obvious by DedTV · · Score: 1

    Yes, there are. But there's even more people whose prosperity is tied to the prosperity of copyright holders.

    No one wants their city to be the next Detroit which is what the politicians have been pulling out as the example for what happens if a city and it's people hold local corporations to silly things like ethics or fair business practices.
    Someone waiting tables at the Waffle House doesn't care about fostering technical innovation. They're happy to vote for a politician who wants to extend copyrights forever, or wants to let the local tech company re-patent everything that has ever been thought of by adding "on a computer" or "on a phone" to it, or wants to let the local steel mill dump slag water in the river; so long as it means that $0.50 tip they get for serving someone breakfast might grow to $0.75, they couldn't care less what it means to some company somewhere else whose ability to innovate will be stifled by over reaching copyright or patent laws.

  69. we must remember by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that aging rockers are finding that prescription drugs cost more than illegal drugs

  70. Rape Mickey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's how I think Americans should elect to exercise their freedom of speech to protest this fact.

    They should create a website called "fuckmickeymouse". This website should contain and solicit depictions of Mickey Mouse in sexually lurid positions and situations, pictorially in text and in animation. The grosser and funnier, the better. MickeyMouse should be depicted as close to the current Mickey Mouse as possible. The website would be a form of political speech protesting the grotesqueries this slashdot article outlined. The owners of this website should make every attempt to have it rank #1 in Google searches for mickey mouse.

    Yeah, that would pretty much end up getting the nation to talk about this issue. Especially since Googling for Mickey Mouse would not be safe anymore. Especially when Disney sues or slaps them with a takedown notice and it ends up in SCOTUS. Especially when the value of that all American icon starts to slide into the gutter since everyone in the nation will have surely seen Micky Mouse's previously unknown and quite unbelievable phallic endowment and this will be quite involuntarily foremost in their minds when they see him in Disneyland and on TV and in gift shops and elsewhere.

    This is nothing different in kind than what the serfs did to Katherine the Great and her alleged equine proclivities or the tales the English used to tell of Queen Eleanor . It's part of a very long, hallowed, cherished, worldwide and timeless tradition of speaking truth to power by mocking and debasing just those things tyrants would insist we hold in reverence and would see enshrined into law.

    Yeah I think that's how Americans should strike back at Mickey Mouse's suffocating their democracy.

  71. Re:How about a crowdfunded anti-copyright lobbyist by scared+masked+man · · Score: 0

    In Australia, the Pirate Party (usual disclaimer) makes submissions to relevant enquiries and official bodies, and spend quite a lot of time arguing FOI requests with the government (the Greens and various loosely-affilaited organisations do the same thing with environmental issues), but they don't have the money or personnel to lobby politicians and senior officials directly the way the MAFIAA does. On the bright side, the Greens started off like that, and they're now the third most important party in the country, so with a lot of hard work, improvement is possible.

  72. Re:The summary is stupid, just as obvious by Pope · · Score: 1

    I'm confused. Are there a lot of copyright holders in the Tennessee 7th District? Because I had this silly notion that US Congressman were supposed to represent the PEOPLE in their district, and not the highest bidder.

    You do realize that people hold copyrights.

    --
    It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.