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Ask Slashdot: Facebook, Twitter For Business, Is It Worth the Privacy Trade-Off?
cayenne8 writes "I've been a staunch advocate of NOT joining Facebook or Twitter or the other social networks to protect my privacy and to not voluntarily give all my personal information away to corporate America, or even the Government. However, I'm beginning to look into making money through various means on the side, one of them being photography/videography. With these mediums, being seen is critically important. Having a business facing site on Facebook/Google+ and even using Twitter can be great for self promotion, and can open up your business to a huge audience. If you were to open your FB and other social network accounts with business ONLY information, and keep your personal information (name, image, etc) off the Facebook account...will this keep your personal privacy still from them, or are their algorithms good enough to piece together who you are from the business only sites? Is the payoff worth the potential trade-off for generating potential customers for your business and guiding them to your primary website?"
See all those sites you visit with a facebook like button. Those images are usually served from facebook, not the site you're visiting.
So, unless you're careful with your privacy settings, you are likely reporting a huge amount of your browsing to facebook.
At the very least, I'd recommend logging out of facebook when you're done and trying to browse with 3rd party cookies disabled.
Having a social media presence is pretty crucial to doing the sort of freelance work you're describing, since so much of how you get business happens via word of mouth (and so much of "word of mouth" happens on social media).
One of the simplest things you can do to protect your privacy is to create an email addres that you *only* use for social media accounts (like, a special gmail address that just forwards mail to your regular adress, or maybe facebook@yourdomain.com if you own your own domain). This rather horrifying article from the WSJ about the way that social media tracking work makes clear that your email address is a big part of how your identity is tracked online. If they can't match the email address you use for your Facebook login with any other aspects of your online identity, you have some protections.
If you're using them strictly as a business tool, I wouldn't worry too much about photos -- I do think it's helpful to have a photo of yourself, especially in a one-to-one business like freelance photography. You can set your Facebook account so other people can't tag you in their photos.
Their little data bots are good enough that they already have information on you whether you have an account or not. You and your browser are traceable if you visit any websites with their widgets, whether you are signed in or not. Just bite the bullet and set up a business account already and stop worrying. You aren't that special.
Having a Facebook has certainly helped my business' promotion, it gets a lot more eyes visit our websites.
Nuff said.
And what kind of unprofessional questions is that anyways?
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
What are your other options for self promotion? Ad in the newspaper? How many people will see it let alone act on it these days? Ad on TV? Is the Return of Investment worth it for what you're trying to do?
Really, for better or worse "social" media is the best way to reach a target audience.
Web hosting that doesn't suck!Dreamhost
chronoss chiron
real name nothing like that
email a strange gmail account
and ive never ever used my real name anywhere in the entire history ive been on the net
some arabs thought i was arab once and invited me to a site when i told em i was scottish well i got booted LOL
the rub is people could do this type a thing for business too. Think how holly molly the stripper makes a buck....that ain't her real name but its prolly registered as a business name and thus IT can make money....want privacy as much as you can thats about all i can offer other then the above.
fact is if they are tracking my email address then good for them track away if i stop using it and this name then what...
oh and one year i tried to many name syndrome and had 96 email accounts..WHAT you say well 10 meg form geocities per each...ROFL
anything connected somehow is trackable somehow and eventually will be.
...unless you're clever, like Ronald McDonald or Colonel Sanders, the real identities of which are still mysteries.
>>>Having a business facing site on Facebook/Google+ and even using Twitter can be great for self promotion, and can open up your business to a huge audience
actually increases sales?
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
They already have or can gain easy access to all that information. The govt already has a ton of info on you, tax records, dmv, etc. Business do also (you prolly get junk mail every day addressed to you.) It's a fact of life, it sucks, but thinking you can erase or hide your digital or paper trail is foolish. If you want to protect privacy spend your time fighting to protect it, don't waste it trying to hide.
You want to start working freelance and you don't want to publicize how people can reach you? I'd expect a decent head shot, a phone number, a short bio and an email address. Also representative galleries of past work, as well.
You don't have to put your life story out there, but it's really not uncommon in business to have some small amount of "About Me" information posted with experience, education, sometimes martial status/number of children (especially if you are looking to photograph families/children).
If you are going to set up a social media presence, you can't just set up a page and have it sit there. It does require tending and maintenance or it looks abandoned. If you do photography, post examples of good work at a steady pace, even if it's not paying gigs. Hopefully people forward it around and you get some notice.
It sounds like you need to loosen up, or find another way of making money on the side that doesn't require social media. You can be a successful freelander without it, but you will still need to get your name out there somehow (personal networking, business networking groups, etc)
Ghostery blocks them
Always remember that you are in control over how much information you make available to others. If you don't want the world to know your SO pads her bra, then DON'T post that information. If you don't want the government to know you are cheating on your taxes DON'T post that. If you don't want your home burglarized by criminals, DON'T post your home address and then say your going on a six month tour of Europe. Figure that whatever you do post will be harvested for profit by unscrupulous people no matter what the currently published "privacy" policy is and what settings you are using.
I use Facebook sometimes, as well as Mixi, and G+. I am not a heavy user of any of them, but they are ok. As far as privacy, just don't put in Facebook anything secret. That's easy.
What I don't get is the business thing. For example, let's say I love Sony. That's great, but it doesn't mean I want to be "facebook buddies" with them. I'm sorry, but that's not what Facebook is useful for. I also don't need tweets (or a blog) from the ramen place down the street that I eat at. There are various reasons I don't have any interest in "friending" companies in general:
1. They get information on me I might not want them to have.
2. I don't get anything much useful from it
3. There is linked-in for that kind of stuff.
If you want to promote yourself, you can certainly use the tools you want, but at the end of the day, Facebook is basically a system for connecting for forgotten high-school buddies, not a professional promotion tool. Your best way to self-promote is:
1. Do something really useful and do a good job at it - let word of mouth work
2. Get permission to share work you did for clients as samples (a portfolio of photos, programs, etc.). Put some portion of this online on your own web site.
3. *Maybe* make a blog or something if it suits your work.
I think Twitter is worth it because there are very few privacy concerns. Twitter is 98% public, and everyone who participates knows it. (I hope.)
Facebook is a privacy nightmare, and is crap for driving business to your web site. It does everything it can to keep all information on Facebook, including jerking everyone around. And that will only increase.
Once you post something on either service it's out of y our control. With Twitter it's pretty minor, 140 characters, and it will be gone eventually. (I believe they only archive the last 2000 Tweets or so.) Facebook is trying to make a timeline of people's entire lives and won't stop trying to make money off your content until well after you're dead.
linkedin
elance
http://michaelsmith.id.au
are a great cover, go for it
dutifully - any FB business showing - Walmart is there!
Our business has Twitter, and Facebook, and I'm on LinkedIn, and Quora, and Slashdot, and... damn I probably even have a MySpace account hanging around somewhere. The problem with anything online is that you can never, ever stop updating, fixing it, redesigning it, monitoring it....
Beyond that, all that you can do with Facebook is try to get people to "like" you (aka subscribe). E-mail does that better - Constant Contact seems good. All that you're really doing is building a list of people who already know you and probably buy your product. A public list. Is that really of much value?
At the end of the day, I seriously doubt how much any of those drive business for the small operator. Facebook in particular will bury your content in a barrage of cat pictures and weird and sometimes offensive ads - who in hell programs their ad servers? Algorithms by chimps?.
I'm thinking that if time and resources are limited you would do better with a really tight and well designed website, and some money spent on Google Adsense placements. Unlike Facebook, Google seems to be able to hit me with ads that actually might interest me.
-
Three Squirrels
You want to increase your exposure, you just don't want to increase your exposure. Hmm. If you want to leverage the benefits of social networking, you may need to make a bit of a trade off here.
FWIW, the "Facebook for Business Pages" stuff is kind of gimped - you can't "Like" other pages and you are limited in other ways. I ended up making up an EMail address and a fake name in order to "Like" other pages (for the free music giveaways), but now Facebook seems to recognize that account on every page I visit.
I've done the Twitter thing for a couple months now, and if they are following me around the web I haven't seemed to notice.
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
Dweebs are uncool !! Self-promting dweebs are scum !! Dweebs are poor old sorry sods !! Look it up !! Aqualung !!
You might have pre-conceived notions of why FB / XYZ / ZZY is bad for you or your company. But the reality of the situation is that if you do "good" then you will be rewarded in the social world. However, if you are a shady MF as a company expect to be called out!
2. The gubmint has access to the same databases.
3. Deep privacy is no longer possible if you have ever gone into debt, rented an apartment, or done any number of things that involve Large Systems.
4. Shallow privacy can be kept by avoiding Social Networks. But it is fungible and variable.
5. Photography and Videography as a profession are pretty well toast. When a fucking phone takes better video than a $100,000 camera did 30 years ago, the Gig Is Up. Content creation is trivial and a short ride to the poor house, unless you move to LA and suck enough dick to get into the film industry.
6. If you will notice most of the most famous and popular photographs of the past year were taken by amateurs on crap gear.
In short: Only get into a creative profession if it is something you absolutely MUST do, as in, inner necessity I will go insane if I can't do this MUST do. Otherwise, just shoot videos of kittens, post it on youtube and collect the rent.
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
CIA Head: We Will Spy On Americans Through Electrical Appliances
Global information surveillance grid being constructed; willing Americans embrace gadgets used to spy on them
Steve Watson | Prisonplanet.com | March 16, 2012
http://www.prisonplanet.com/cia-head-we-will-spy-on-americans-through-electrical-appliances.html
"CIA director David Petraeus has said that the rise of new "smart" gadgets means that Americans are effectively bugging their own homes, saving US spy agencies a job when it identifies any "persons of interest".
Speaking at a summit for In-Q-Tel, the CIA's technology investment operation, Petraeus made the comments when discussing new technologies which aim to add processors and web connections to previously 'dumb' home appliances such as fridges, ovens and lighting systems.
Wired reports the details via its Danger Room Blog[1]:
"'Transformational' is an overused word, but I do believe it properly applies to these technologies," Petraeus enthused, "particularly to their effect on clandestine tradecraft."
"Items of interest will be located, identified, monitored, and remotely controlled through technologies such as radio-frequency identification, sensor networks, tiny embedded servers, and energy harvesters - all connected to the next-generation internet using abundant, low-cost, and high-power computing," Petraeus said.
"the latter now going to cloud computing, in many areas greater and greater supercomputing, and, ultimately, heading to quantum computing." the CIA head added.
Petraeus also stated that such devices within the home "change our notions of secrecy".
Petraeus' comments come in the same week that one of the biggest microchip companies in the world, ARM, unveiled new processors that are designed to give practically every household appliance an internet connection[2], in order that they can be remote controlled and operate in tandem with applications.
ARM describes the concept as an "internet of things".
Where will all the information from such devices be sent and analyzed? It can be no coincidence that the NSA is currently building a monolithic heavily fortified $2 billion facility[3] deep in the Utah desert and surrounded by mountains. The facility is set to go fully live in September 2013.
"The Utah data center is the centerpiece of the Global Information Grid, a military project that will handle yottabytes of data, an amount so huge that there is no other data unit after it." reports Gizmodo.
"This center-with every listening post, spy satellite and NSA datacenter connected to it, will make the NSA the most powerful spy agency in the world."
Wired reports[4] that the incoming data is being mined by plugging into telecommunications companies' switches, essentially the same method the NSA infamously uses for warrantless wiretapping of domestic communications[5], as exposed six years ago.
Former intelligence analyst turned best selling author James Bamford, has penned a lengthy piece[6] on the NSA facility and warns "It is, in some measure, the realization of the 'total information awareness' program created during the first term of the Bush administration-an effort that was killed by Congress in 2003 after it caused an outcry over its potential for invading Americans' privacy."
----------------------
Steve Watson is the London based writer and editor for Alex Jones' Infowars.net[7], and Prisonplanet.com[8]. He has a Masters Degree in International Relations from the School of Politics at The University of Nottingham in England.
(C) 2012 PrisonPlanet.com is a Free Speech Systems, LLC company. All rights reserved.
[1] http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/03/petraeus-tv-remote/
[2] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17345934
Grow up.
Personally I had (past tense) a fb account but I haven't used it for many years.
But my business does have a fb presence - it has its own fb account and in the office a cpu is dedicated for that fb account.
Nothing important is on that dedicated cpu - so all the info fb can obtain from that dedicated machine is the ip (static) and the hw/sw info.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
that you actually have any privacy without joining Facebook or Twitter.
You see all these Facebook buttons everywhere? They are already tracking you without you needing to log in into Facebook or even having an account there.
Same thing for all the ad networks. Single pixel bugs and ads are used to track you. And from scraps of the info you left on some sites, and the emails and addresses you provided to shopping sites they know who you are, where you live, what is your phone number and what size of shoes you wear.
It works so well that for instance after visiting some furniture store site just to browse it, a little while later I got their nice printed catalog in snail-mail.
Oh yeah, and I am browsing with Adblock and Ghostery.
So unless you nuke your cookies and Flash cookies and change IP address every day as well you probably have zero privacy.
Welcome to 21st century.
A) Facebook and gogke already know all about you, unless you're meticulous with your cookies and only browse through Tor.
B) you're only a subpoena away from the government getting anytime they want about you, at best.
C) privacy is toast, in other words.
D) does a tine even us google+? Moreso, do any real companies have a presence there?
E) I'd be interested in a truelly neutral study about the effectiveness of advertising on Facebook. I know they're raking in the dollars, but that doesn't mean it's money well spent for companies. I know for myself, I use it, and I have yet to visit any business page intentionally. The ones I have seen, I've backed away from immediately. Unless you're running daily specials, there's just no purpose to building a Facebook presence I don't think. Would you pay any amount of money to garner "likes", for instance?
F)I'd suggest go the "ld fashioned route" of a good web presence, some SEO, and some decent spending on AdWords if you're serious about it. Once you have a couple customers, maybe you think aboutvfacebook or twitterif you think they'll provide you any linkage, recommendations or traffic. But no point in investing any time or energy until you've got the basics covered.
G) don't waste any time worrying about privacy. Again, unless you've been nutty with your countermeasures, your privacy Is already long gone. And if you do manage to set up a business presence and keep it totally detached from your online persona,which lol be hard since you'll use the same browser at worst, or just be using the same ip addresss, personal and business at best, corporate info is only a few clicks away on most states' websites.
But go ahead do your business, it can't hurt!
Unscannable! AHHHH!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8yoSAiwY18
Depends.
No, not the diaper. God i'm lame.
One browser for business - a different one for personal stuff.
Better yet install virtualbox or something and conduct all your business/facebook browsing from it, reverting to snapshot after each visit.
I make my living extracting content from Facebook's API. If they are recording what sites you visit, it's not exposed anywhere in their API. I can say anything you've directly acted upon with your Facebook account, but looking at something is not a direct action. Further, a sample account was posted to Slashdot at one point, courtesy of the court system and none of that information was in there.
What you actually care about is protecting your information from people like me. To do that is simple. Click the arrow next to Home while logged into your freshly minted account. Then click Privacy Settings.
Now edit Ads, Apps and Websites. Then click "Turn off your ability to use apps, plugins, and websites on and off Facebook. After you turn this off, we will not store information about you when you use apps or websites off Facebook." Set "Old versions of Facebook for mobile" to Only Me. Click Edit Settings next to "How people bring your info to apps they use" and uncheck everything. Disable Instant Personalization. With all of this in place, you become nearly invisible to my code. The most I can ever see is your name and Facebook ID and you may occasionally show up as a friend of someone who uses my Facebook app.
Since you're presumably still paranoid, let's also prevent people from directly interacting with your timeline. Back in Privacy, click Timeline and Tagging. Remember that "Only Me" is under Custom, so lock that bad boy down.
Presto, you're about as private as they come. And if you follow Slashdot, you'll quickly know when it's time to revisit these settings because Facebook has made further changes.
Add Missy MWAC as a friend.
No, seriously, you should add her as a friend if you are doing any freelance photography. So many people come into the freelance photography business every day that it is almost ridiculous. This is because there is an industry of "Rockstar Photographers" that do nothing but sell stuff to the new photographers. Then, the new photographers get into the workshops, actions and gear and eventually get out of it a few months later. Some last a whole year, but there is a high attrition rate. Just as fast as they appear.
You don't know what you don't know, and it is easy to wash out. However, Missy MWAC sarcastically pokes fun of the newbie mistakes, and will keep you from making the mistakes.
Step 2. Make an account on a non-facebook social media. Facebook likes don't translate into clients, and most of the pages with thousands of like are only liked by other photographers, and not people interested in photography services. If someone is going to refer your photography services via facebook, they can share your web page or other social media page.
Just remember, Facebook is for you to network with other photographers, Pinterest is for you to network with potential wedding or maternity clients, 500px is for you to network with commercial clients, and tumblr is for you to network with editorial and fashion clients. Just remember, if other photographers are commenting, sharing or liking your work, then you are doing it wrong. You need to get in front of possible clients.
"However, I'm beginning to look into making money through various means on the side, one of them being pornography/videography. With these mediums, being seen is critically important"
Corrected the sentence for you :)
aaaaaaa
The privacy needs of a business and the privacy needs of a private individual are polar opposites.
Individuals usually want to remain hidden to the general public but not to their circle of friends.
A business usually wants maximum exposure to attract customers. That is the whole idea of advertising.
The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
basically yes. If you segregate everything business related. Run management thru a separate browser. Maybe make Opera your business browser if you're not already using it. Set to wipe on shut down or whatever. Then any privacy concerns should be minimized. Building a respectable small business used to be so much harder and nowadays the only reason it's still a viable option for so many people IS because of social networking. You're going to have to use it even if only minimally as a point of contact. people will want to facebook you rather than email you. it's weird like that.
Just another second banana
I see lots of businesses investing in Facebook and Twitter. This is driven by the marketing departments, and especially the younger staff that wants to prove something. Maybe I'm an old geezer, but I am not convinced - in the businesses I am familiar with, I haven't seen any sort of believable results, and the marketing departments can't produce any numbers, only "trust us, we know what we're doing".
Has anyone seen actual, solid numbers from any business that prove that these marketing channels were worth the investment? If so, for what type of business?
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
You still "get reported", in the form of your IP address and browser identity, even if you're logged out.
I am forced to maintain the facebook page (included in my job responsibilities) for work but do not have a personal account. I'm still at risk and sometimes I work from home.
Here are addons for Firefox that I would recommend:
RequestPolicy (HIGHLY recommended!)
Increases your browsing privacy, security, and speed by giving you control over cross-site requests
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-Us/firefox/addon/requestpolicy/
Facebook, Google, or Twitter Disconnect
Don’t let Facebook, Google, or Twitter follow you around the web
(Be aware thant the Google Disconnect addon will prevent embedded youtube videos from showing up)
https://disconnect.me/tools
Ghostery
Protect your privacy. See who's tracking your web browsing and block them
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-Us/firefox/addon/ghostery/?src=search
Use a HOSTS file to block ads, banners, 3rd party Cookies, 3rd party page counters, web bugs, and hijackers
http://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm
The sad truth is that you are tracked every time a youtube video is in a page or a graphic image is displayed from other sites. You don't even realize how much you are being tracked until you understand how many cross-site requests there are that do NOT use java script (that means that NoScript won't help you there).
And really, nothing is going to help you with your ISP tracking every URL you go to in any browser - unless you use Tor. And don't think for a moment that companies like Time Warner Cable or Verizon are on your side.
But that doesn't mean you shouldn't fight for privacy. It's just a shame that so many mindless idiots really don't care.
The article reads as "I was a staunch advocate for privacy until I realized I could make money by selling my soul."
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
If you want keep yourself hidden from the world on social media it's not going to work out. I own a computer business and online store I have enjoyed a great deal of success but I am the public face of the company. Just the way being a business owner is people people want to see the boss whether it's in face or on internet. I am not saying share your life but you are your brand when it comes to business.
http://thetechnologygeek.org/
And use it. All updates will show up with that ID, and, you can choose what types of personal information you wish to give out. You do not have to associate your real Facebook account with your business account. (Facebook likely will combine such data on their servers anyways, but, it won't show publicly for your business ID).
I work for a mega-corp and this has worked out nicely. You probably see mega-corp brand daily anyways, but this gives one more medium for communication. Individual functions/departments can have their own Facebook IDs and post updates. No longer restricted to marketing drones, a lot of technical folks can coordinate through the Facebook ID owner for their business function and post updates that otherwise wouldn't reach as large of an audience.
On a side note, if you work for mega-corp and you are looking for an internal solution for social media, do NOT use Facebook or Twitter. There are plenty of solutions for social media where data remains private, under your control, and employees still get the same look/feel as Facebook/Twtitter. Here's a Wikipedia link to get started: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_software
Why would you post ALL your personal information to a social site? You only 'give away' as much as you post. If you have such little self control then perhaps it's best that you're not on those sites.
the OP doesn't think the government doesn't know a lot about their personal lives already...well, there's nothing we can do to keep them from that delusion.
So if that's the case, and you're a photographer who's livelihood is making money from taking photos. If you post examples on FB to help self promote, you must be willing to allow someone else to own your work that you post on their site.
If you do create an account of this type, only put some photo stuff that you're willing to give away for free.
I really like this guy's idea: link
Look up "Wiggy107" to see what could happen.
Bad things CAN happen.
Bad things are unlikely to happen to everyone.
There is no way to predict if something bad will happen to you, specifically, based on online posts.
I'm a reformed poster. I used to post all my detailed travels daily while I was out of town, including photos. I was stupid. I picked up a stalker from this. She ended up being fired from her job over her lack of self control. I hated going to work for about 6 months while I was being sexually harrassed and followed. I should point out that I am not particularly attractive. At the time, I was 40+ lbs overweight - obese.
I am paranoid now. I'd rather not cause so much harm to another person and their family.
You're worried about privacy on SOCIAL networks? Really?
If your serious with business then you will need a REAL web presence, not a facebook account which is not taken seriously in many business circles, or customers.
You can link through a social network but simply point to a real website. That way it not only allows you to customise exactly what you want to promote without restrictions, but also gives a professional appearance, and gives the impression your not just another "fly by nighter" or scam site. I personally won't deal with any major concern without either a bricks and mortar store, or a proper website. Cost for online presence these days is negligible for any business.
Facebook, twitter Google plus, should be treated as additional tools NOT the primary focus.
May as well jump in:
"voluntarily give all my personal information away to corporate America"?
You may have noticed:
You are on a public network.
Accessing a public site.
Using a public I.P.
Talking in a public forum.
And your chip ID's make proxies and blockers irrelevant.
You have already giving them what they want. :-)
May as well jump in with both feet
Considering how many times he has had his ass handed to him regarding hosts files. Ready everyone, because this IS hilarious:
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2579684&cid=38415816
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2356916&cid=36938204
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2579684&cid=38415774
Sardaukar's profanity laden reaction at the end of that one tells the tale, lol, on his getting his behind beaten, here http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2579684&cid=38414888
Nothing new that though. He's flipped out before too on that same note http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2579684&cid=38414922
It is very amusing watching you constantly FAIL on hosts files Sardaukar86 and having your tantrums. Maintain your dignity boy, instead of having 'foaming @ the mouth' rages due to your screwing up.