Slashdot Mirror
Makerbot Cracks Down On 3D-Printable Gun Parts
Sparrowvsrevolution writes in with a story at Forbes about Makerbot deleting gun component blueprints on Thingiverse. "In the wake of the Newtown, Connecticut shootings, the 3D-printing firm Makerbot has deleted a collection of blueprints for gun components from Thingiverse, its popular user-generated content website that hosts 3D-printable files. Though Thingiverse has long banned designs for weapons and their components in its terms of service, it rarely enforced the rule until the last few days, when the company's lawyer sent notices to users that their software models for gun parts were being purged from the site. Gun control advocates were especially concerned about the appearance of lower receivers for semi-automatic weapons that have appeared on Thingiverse. The lower receiver is the the 'body' of a gun, and its most regulated component. So 3D-printing that piece at home and attaching other parts ordered by mail might allow a lethal weapon to be obtained without any legal barriers or identification. Makerbot's move to delete those files may have been inspired in part by a group calling itself Defense Distributed, which announced its intention to create an entirely 3D-printable gun in August and planned to potentially upload it to Thingiverse. Defense Distributed says it's not deterred by Makerbot's move and will host the plans on its own site."
remove something from the internet.
However they feel about gun parts personally, being involved in distributing them could one day be a very bad thing. It's best to leave that to special-purpose sites.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
a group calling itself Defense Distributed, which announced its intention to create an entirely 3D-printable gun
Shields and armor are defensive, guns aren't.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
The National Firearms Act says that you can't make a "firearm" without a tax payment. I'm sure this is more about tax evasion than safety.
What this will do long term is make the gun control debate a mute point. If bad guys can print guns anyways (illegal or not) then why prevent law abiding citizens from buying guns legally to protect themselves?
They probably need to know what Defense Distributed is up to, if they aren't already investigating them.
"The lower receiver is the the 'body' of a gun, and its most regulated component. So 3D-printing that piece at home and attaching other parts ordered by mail might allow a lethal weapon to be obtained without any legal barriers or identification." This is true, but to print a receiver without a federal firearms manufacturing license is a felony. I can mill one out of aluminum without a 3d printer, it would last a lot longer, but that doesn't make it legal. In general, most "bad" things that people can do with a firearm, are already illegal.
-- the computer doesn't want any beer, no matter how much you think it does. NEVER, EVER feed your computer beer.
Queue slashdot's huge contingent of whacky libertarians explaining how its their right to fab these things to prepare for getting food when society breaks down.
Seriously, how could it possibly be a good idea to let *anyone* print their own lethal weapon.
Believing something doesn't make it true. Not believing something doesn't make it false.
How very trendy of them.
It seems that absolutely no one is above using this tragedy for getting attention for themselves and their own gain.
It's like they say; a politician should never fail to take advantage of a disaster.
and pay for it with bitcoin.
...and routes around it.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
You only have to have a manufacturing license if you wish to transfer the created firearm to another party. You can make any firearm you want as long as it does not fall under the NFA (can not be easily modified to fire more than one bullet per trigger pull, is not intentionally quieted, etc.), and you do not give it to anyone else. There is a large market in 80% complete receivers. You buy a piece of metal then bend and drill it a bit with a vice and drill press and you have an AK receiver. Order the rest online with no checks. You can also get almost finished aluminium blanks for AR receivers and mill them as you said.
You are correct in saying that most bad things people can do with a firearm are illegal. Making a firearm isn't a bad thing. Make as many as you like, just don't kill people with them.
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
Seriously, how could it possibly be a good idea to let *anyone* print their own lethal weapon.
Sudden and massive outbreak of self serving false concern is more like it.
Sadly, I'm already worn down and becoming too tired to try to explain common sense matters to the clueless and closed minded, enlivened with misguided outrage.
thingiverse is a private organization, they can do whatever they want.
its called 'freedom'.
if you want to have a publicly funded 3d printing website that has AR-15 receivers and AK-47 bodies, you are 100% free to do so. . . you can even host it in a non-US country if you are worried about US firearms laws. I hear Somalia is very lenient towards the promulgation of AK-47s.
I don't blame anyone for worrying about liabilities, but Pandora's Box is open, there's no closing it now. The specs for many, many firearms parts are readily available, and anyone who wants to take the time to translate those designs to 3D, is going to be able to print them, and distribute the designs. I'm waiting for someone to notice they can print 3D magazines, of any capacity they want. Yes, this is another opportunity to learn that all we do for good, can and will be perverted to bad. Are we willing to throw out the whole 3D printing movement as a result?
No matter what it is they're trying to censor. Banning citizens from having access to certain technology and equipment serves only to preserve a despot's grip on power. There is no shortage of ways to kill 20 kids in a primary school and unless you're going to pour all your energy into creating a fully childproofed totalitarian big brother state where people in general aren't allowed to do things like North Korea then restricting people won't prevent these tragedies from happening.
before this latest school shooting they really did not care. there has been an AR-15 receiver up on thingiverse for more than a year.
and there have been several school shootings in that time.
thingiverse even conducted a poll a few months back, the subject was whether or not users wanted to allow weapons on the site. i dont know the result of the poll, but the practical effect was nothing - they left those items up.
now all of a sudden they took them down.
nevermind 30+ children died today in automobile accidents (statistical average).
All firearms which fire more than one bullet when the trigger is depressed can only be purchased by non law enforcement if they were manufactured prior to 1986 *and* the class 3 forms and background checks have been done. Doing the class 3 forms won't let you get a newer full auto, and just because its old doesn't mean you don't need the paperwork.
People complain about the amount of misinformation, but it would help if the laws weren't so complicated. Get rid of the NFA, suppressors are just hearing protection, full-autos are a novelty that would loose their appeal if they were easy to get, and short barrelled rifles and shotguns aren't significantly more deadly than any other firearm.
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
3D printers, makers, and the like have become enormously popular among libertarian types. There was quite a lot of attention devoted to these projects at last year's PorcFest gathering (1000+ attendees) for one.
Good to know which groups to dis-invite and boycott this year.
Liberty in your lifetime
Sorry guys, but using 3D printers to create a "gun" is a fantasy fueled by a legal fiction.
See, at some level, for legal purposes, the ATF has to define what a "gun" is and what's just a pile of random junk. They typically do this by saying the receiver is the "gun." The receiver on an AR fairly unique in the gun world because it doesn't have any stress placed on it. So, they technically printed a "gun" in the legal sense...but only in a legal sense.
To create a working firearm, you need a lot of metal components. Springs are obvious, as are any components placed under stress by the springs. Then there's the barrel, the chamber, the firing pin and other components that cannot be printed. So, they didn't (and can't) print a gun in the real world sense unless they happen to have raw stock and and CNC machine laying around.
I can't have a gun and I am essentially as free in my freedom of speech, hability to pursue happiness than most american. Actually more free since I may smoke pot without a problem, or even solicit sex for money and not be arrested. The only freedom I don't have is gun possession, and if you pretend that makes me NOT free, then youbeing forbidden to possess anything forbidden in USA, like say, an atom bomb even if you had the echnical possibility, or any myriad of forbiden substance, makes you NOT free. So really that sentence is utterly misleading. As for fighting against a governement, you are going to use against battle armored soldier or police... How ?
the lower assembly is NOT controlled item... only the upper assembly is..because the upper assembly is the real weapon component..actually fires the bullet ...the lower assembly only houses the trigger and holds the magazine....
I don't know much about gun technology, so maybe somebody can explain why the lower receiver is the controlled part. Why not the barrel? It seems to me that the barrel is the heart and soul of a gun. You can make a gun with just a barrel and nothing else: it's called a cannon.
Furthermore, I would think the barrel would be the hardest part to manufacture, given the forces and temperatures it must endure, and having to be perfectly straight, and rifled. I would imagine that 3-D printed barrels are probably a long, long way off.
3-D printed receivers are already here, and only going to get better and cheaper. If they don't change the regulatory framework to start controlling the rest of the parts, then soon anyone that wants to will be able to make a gun at home and all the gun control laws in the world will just be so much pissing in the wind.
If you have to try so hard to prove what you believe is a common sense point of view and no one is listening, then maybe you should be quiet or change your argument. Another option is keep on fighting the good fight if you really, really believe you are right.
False Premise #1> That prohibition of objects from lawful acting free men helps to reduce pre-crime.
False Premise #2> That prohibition of information from lawful acting free men helps to reduce pre-crime.
Feel free to replace objects and information with other nouns. Here are some ideas:
Alcohol
Drugs
Guns
Encryption Software
Porn
DVD Burners
VCRs
It seems obvious at this point that guns, even legally owned, are safety hazard for everybody. If you own a car, you must pay for insurance. If you buy cigarettes, you need to pay large tax. We need to have significant gun tax, to cover costs to society. It should be large enough to discourage people from owning several guns they don't need, let's say to the tune of $200 per handgun per year, $1000 per semi automatic rifle. My guess would be, nobody would have a bunch of guns just laying around. Hey, you want to play around with guns, sure. Your constitutional right, of course. But now we need to put an armed policeman in every school, mall and movie theater to cover the possibility that you will go nuts and start shooting people. You have to pay the cost.
For fuck's sake, guys, let it wait! In ten years or twenty years, once 3D printing is generally accepted in the home, then go ahead and make your little plastic hobby guns. 3D printing is an unbelievably vital technology, we need it to grow free and unfettered, and you assholes are handing the government a golden excuse on a silver platter to nip it in the bud and regulate it into uselessness because you just can't bear to wait to have shitty, worthless plastic guns.
What would file-sharing look like now if someone had found a way to, shit, I dunno, kill a 12-year-old with Napster three months after it launched? The RIAA would make that happen with a time machine if they could. Nothing turns the general public against a new technology like a solid, broad-spectrum THINK OF THE CHILDREN ad campaign. Do not let them do this.
"Makerbot has deleted a collection of blueprints for gun components from Thingiverse, "
This is known as "shoveling shit against the tide" as my Dad says.
Guns are hundreds of years old and can be fashioned with hand tools and improvised materials and you have to be really dumb not to be able to type into a search engine "zip gun."
--
BMO
They're going to delete all the plans for forks.
I know I'm gonna get shot down as a braindead foreign factard for writing this, especially as I'm posting as Anonymous Coward, but "comment is free", so here's my two cents...
From the outside, the US can look like a really worrying place to the rest of the civilised world. First, I don't see how so many of you don't see the correlation between the fact there's about as many guns as people in the US and the fact that about 30,000 people a year are killed because of guns - this would strongly suggest a causal link to me. In practically every other country where private ownership of guns is permitted, it's heavily regulated. Most countries require a licence and an interview with a suitable authority in order to possess a firearm. Many countries also require a good reason for owning a gun, and "I wanna protect my family against the ravening hordes" isn't an acceptable reason (elsewhere). Often, active membership of a gun/hunting club is also required. These all seem like logical requirements for the ownership of something which has no purpose other than to kill/maim (again, elsewhere).
Regarding home defence: the only reason you would even need a firearm to "defend your family" is because there are so many people with guns out there. I also remember reading statistics (can't be arsed to try and find them now - another reason I'll get shot down for this post) that people who have guns in the home are far more likely to commit suicide with them, kill a family member (deliberately or accidentally) or have them stolen than they ever are to successfully defend their home against an intruder. I read a comment recently (again, can't be arsed to find it) from a law enforcement official in Alaska who said that one of the reasons there are so many home invasions is because the criminals are pretty sure that they'll be able to lay their hands on a gun or two during the break-in. He also made the point that a desperate junkie doesn't think rationally, and isn't likely to let the prospect of being shot by the homeowner put them off...
One of the most worrying things to many of us foreigners, though, is the culture that thinks they need a gun to defend against the tyrannical government. Which tyrannical government is that, then? I know that's the reason the Second Amendment was instituted in the first place, but I'm fairly sure the framers of the constitution never envisioned modern weaponry when they did it. The main argument they seem to offer is they need a gun to defend themselves from the government when they come to take their guns away. Like circular logic much? The 'prepper' folks look like they have paranoid delusions to the rest of the world, and their fears are stoked by right-wing media pundits with their outlandish conspiracy theories.
The fact that sales of guns and ammunition rocketed after the Newtown shootings is, frankly, shocking to outsiders. In most other countries that have had the misfortune to experience them, one mass shooting is reason enough to institute stricter gun laws. The US has had 36 mass shootings since Columbine...
As I remember Bill Maher saying years ago, the problem there is that too many people treat the Second Amendment as if it's the Second Commandment. Now I'll sit back and let you tell me all the ways you think I'm wrong... [Apologies for length of rant, but there's a lot of things to admire about US culture, but your unhealthy obsession with guns ain't one of them, and I find it troubling.]
I'm definitely part of the "pro gun" crowd. However, I have to say that the 3d printing of guns seems like a bad idea to me. I'm not the least bit upset at this move.
As an American, on the behalf of my entire nation, I'd just like to say; we don't give a fuck if you outside the United States are worried. In fact, we prefer it that way. It fits our ' do not fuck with us attitude'. This, coincidentally segues very very nicely into our willingness to allow free men to posses and use guns. Nothing says 'don't fuck with me' like having a gun.
TL;DR We don't give a fuck what you think.
Is wrong and stupid. It is also counter productive, in many ways.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
A citizenry armed with small arms is 'symbolic'?
Tell that to the Afghan rebels that sent the Russians home packing. Sure it took them a while, but if they were not armed, they would be dog food.
And you are sadly mistaken about our troops not firing on citizens. Many will do their jobs, as orders. They dont sit and make moral decisions. That is how order falls apart and even more people die. I bet they said that in Germany once too.. and see how that went.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Now they are taking interesting technology like 3D printing and subverting it so they can make even more weapons.
Why do these people need so many guns? Just how small are their penises?
If the world was free of drug addicts and gun nuts we'd live in a MUCH safer place.
A lot of kids got killed.
Tragic, it is. Abso-fucking-lutely tragic. Kids dying and not knowing what is happening, or why, all those young lives snuffed by an insane loser for no good reason.
A lot of grown-ups got killed.
That sucks too.
And now we have more suckage on the way... you see, for the next year, the news will be filled with tear-jerker stories about kids getting killed, which will appeal to this person looking for a drama fix.
The drama fix will be accompanied with a lot of anti-depressants and whiny heroin fag music, to be followed with "If you don't cry as loudly as I do, you are a terrible person".
Kill me, please.
Aku cinta korea,kunjungi halaman web saya http://www.medanstar.com/ y!
Their lawyers are fucking retarded. It is COMPLETELY LEGAL to build your own complete and working gun in your own shop. You can build a receiver for any semi or bolt action weapon you choose as long as it it not prohibited as an NFA item, or an AOW item which would then need specific forms and taxes paid.
All you have to do is meet the makers mark requirement and use the guns for personal use, not for resale (although you could sell them later on).
The only time an FFL is needed is when you want to mail order specific parts (like a receiver) from OUT OF STATE.
Makerbot shows their true colors... anti gun libs that think they know better. Fuck them,
Thingiverse lawyers tell them to delete the designs to avoid persecution. I suspect with the giant shit storm from the recent school shooting, they don't want to catch any flack for hosting weapon plans. This is purely a PR move.
Their line of thought goes something like this:
Some journalist discovers plans for gun parts on Thingiverse. They proceed to write a sensationalist piece on how [insert person who wants to kill people here] can download and print guns in their own homes and kill people using them. Stupid people read/hear/watch said story and panic thinking there is now an unlimited source of untraceable guns available. Of course they wont mention that these are only lower receivers and other parts that cant make a complete weapon. But it will be spun so the general public will think that any nerdy introverted kid with a 3D printer and computer can print a gun and shoot their school up. Thingiverse, along with the 3D printing and maker community get a black eye for enabling crazies and criminals to arm themselves without anyone ever knowing.
And to add to the gun argument:
Whats done is done. Adding bans to guns isn't going to work in the short run. Neither is relaxing current regulations going to arm citizens turning the population into a self policing militia. A ban only means that the sale of guns becomes a black market complete with criminal trafficking. Now the ban on guns becomes a new war on drugs where authorities are constantly trying to stem an influx of smuggled guns. And legal gun owners become targets for thieves wanting to steal guns for profit. What about previously legal gun owners do they surrender their guns to authorities to be destroyed? How many would be unscrupulous and recoup their cost by selling their guns on the black market? At this point we need better gun education. Even though the kid who shot the school up was unstable, his mother should have known better. Either she should have never kept the guns at home or avoided buying them altogether.
The school shooting was one of many but they are still isolated incidents. It sad hearing that those kids were shot to death but life is full of tragedy and children die tragically every day. The media takes the incident and turns it into a circus. They cram the gory details, crying parents and pro/anti gun groups yelling at each other down our collective throats until we need to see a shrink for PTSD. I stopped listening/reading/watching the news a long time ago because its full of negativity that I feel causes stress. My mother always watches the news and is always paranoid about some some scary FUD she heard on the news. I tell her to turn the fucking TV off and enjoy life. Watching the news isn't going to make you feel any safer nor will it help protect you from bad things (it may inform though). If something bad happens then so be it, as much as it sucks you just have to deal with it.
before the political grandstanding and emotional appealing has begun.
Politicians are sick fuckers.
This is nothing short of censorship, politically and emotionally motivated censorship.
Its not cool, and it wasn't cool after columbine, 9/11. the sinking of the USS Maine, the Lusitania, the aurora shooting, the arizona shooting, etc....
Seriously, this is something right out of one of his "cautionary tales"
If you read that Wikipedia table closer, you'll find that it directly, completely, utterly, contridicts that Nationmaster link you posted. The wikipedia table shows the US as having a higher murder rate than any other 1st-world western country. The "most murderous" 1st-World western country after the US is Finland, with a muder rate just a hair over half the US rate.
Perhaps that Nationmaster table isn't the "37 top murder countries"... instead it is the 37 they felt like posting data from.
Perhaps you should pay at least some tiny amount of attention before posting selectively-chosen statistics?
However they feel about gun parts personally, being involved in distributing them could one day be a very bad thing.
You know what's worse? Arbitrarily banning something just because the media does not like it.
What about toy guns? Or gun parts for other different guns? None of those are banned. Just some small components for one gun.
The parts in question are not even crucial components for a gun. They are not in any way themselves a weapon. Should you ban anything spiky or heavy on Thingverse because it could be strapped to a stick and used as a club?
Lastly the reason why it's a REALLY bad idea to ban anything from Thingverse is that it removes the whole common carrier arument. Now that they have shown they police content, they are RESPONSIBLE for all content in Thingverse. Copyright infringement, liability, all of that whole world of legal pain now seems open to descend upon Thingverse.
Giving in to people being scared and censoring things never ends well; why should it for Thingverse?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
This is an owner of a website choosing what content it hosts.
Correct; but that is also censorship. It's perfectly legal, but we should not pretend that a site that takes user provided materials and limiting what can be placed according to any rules is not censorship.
The problem with censorship is that it then allows other to sue you claiming you should have censored this or that; much simpler to never sensor anything and instead shut down accounts if other users complain about a user abusing the system somehow.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
As an American I refuse to take criticism from someone who came from a culture that has done as many atrocious things as you Europeans have done to one another. I'm not even just talking Germany here, it's the endless history of wars and blood and torture on a scale unimaginable; you present the veneer of civility but your sneer hides a demon underneath that America has cast off.
The reason why America is free of your curse is that the people are able to truly choose their own fate. They may not right now, but they can and have the power to truly say no when government goes too far. America is not capable of being ruled by mad-men in the same way you Europeans are.
So don't talk to us about worry, because Americans not part of a gang are generally just fine and quite safe. Worry instead about what happens when history repeats itself where you live. The reason why America likes to stay so heavily armed is we know it's only a matter of time before people like you descend once more into barbarism; we'd like to be well prepared to fend you off when it happens.
Bottle: "Genie, get back in here!"
Genie: "LOL NO"
I am John Hurt.
You say they wouldn't fire on the American people...tell that to the kids at Kent State. (yes, I know that was the National Guard. )
Then of course there was the Civil war...how many Americans in uniform killed other Americans during that little affair?
John
Define weapon you twits. You know Mrs. Plum in the library with the candlestick, would probably disagree.
"In the wake of the Newtown, Connecticut shootings," the Jew run government is doing everything it can to disarm its 'cattle' (goyim) as they are getting wise to the Jews' power over them, and are fed up with it.
Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKWgCRBR5qE
One of the worst actors ever seen... notice the fake 'bricks' behind them, on the left hand side, at 0:10... and where does the guy who walks from right to left at 0:07 go? Behind the 'wall'?
Even better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZFmAZpluNg
Possibly the worst Jew actor ever seen, and the worst thing is, the Jews think their 'cattle' are as stupid as the Jews are, and will believe this shit...
Seems like the only way to stop these continued insults to our culture with the proliferation of guns is to mail the source. Given these developments, I am all for remote body-scanning of everyone! Tired of gun nuts running this culture!
www.dongiverse.com
The CDC (i.e., the US government) lists the US homicide rate as 55/million, which would make it 6th on that list. Furthermore, that list seems to exclude just about all countries in North/South America and Africa, many of which have the highest murder rates in the world. And why is the murder rate for Turkey listed as twice that of the highest country in the wikipedia list? This doesn't even come close to passing the smell test.
Fuck them. This is dumb. It's their site and they have every right. Quit complaining. Shut up and hack!
try walking into a deli
and urinating on the cheese
ANARCHYBURGER
Now il just have to stab them in stead.
If every teacher had one of these along with the training on how to use it when that nut kicked in the door
A. ...you would maybe have stunned the one real wannabe mass killer who would have otherwise done something stupid this year (and thus maybe saved a couple of dozen of potential victims).
B. ...and you would have a country filled with countless problems of abusive tasering (badly behaving kids who got on the nerves of their teachers. Not that the brats were in their rights to begin with. But using a potentially lethal weapon to deal with verbal menace or bad behavious *is* inappropriate) and several extra cases of taser-related deaths on top of the usual ones.
Just look at how much cases of inappropriate tasering there has been since tasers became popular among various security branches.
(And I'm not counting in the potential of malevolent kids stealing their teacher's electrical weapon for nefarious purposes)
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]