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Taking Sense Away: Confessions of a Former TSA Screener

OverTheGeicoE writes "TSA gets discussed on Slashdot from time to time, usually negatively. Have you ever wondered about the TSA screeners' perspective? Taking Sense Away is a blog, allegedly written by a former TSA screener, offering insider perspectives on TSA topics. For example, there's the Insider's TSA Dictionary, whose entries are frequently about the code screeners use to discuss attractive female passengers (like 'Code Red,' 'Fanny Pack,' and 'Hotel Bravo'). Another posting explains what goes on in private screening rooms, which the author claims is nothing compared to screener conduct in backscatter image operator rooms. Apparently what happens in the IO room stays in the IO room. Today's posting covers how TSA employees feel about working for 'a despised agency'. For many the answer is that they hate working for 'the laughing stock of America's security apparatus,' try to hide that they work for TSA, and want to transfer almost anywhere else ASAP."

96 of 354 comments (clear)

  1. Glad to hear they're ashamed by Philotomy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm pleased to hear that at least some of the people working for the TSA are ashamed. They should be.

    1. Re:Glad to hear they're ashamed by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unfortunately, though, the people who are ashamed are for the most part not really in any position to do anything about it. They're the low-paid extras hired to act in the security theater, not the playwright, production company, or theater owner...

    2. Re:Glad to hear they're ashamed by whoever57 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The airlines need to address this. They have the resources.

      I suspect that the beancounters in airlines are the ultimate cause of the financial issues of US airlines. Travelling by air has become much less pleasant than it was, what with the lack of food, extra fees, less legroom, etc.. On a recent trip to Asia, it was clear that the standard of service on Asian airlines is much better: hot food provided free on short flights, baggage limits applied loosely, more attentive flight attendants, etc..

      I think that the beancounters think that the unpleasantness from security and all the other nickel and dime changes affect travellers on all airlines equally, which is true, but the real problem is that the number of air travellers has dropped. Perhaps if travelling by air were more pleasant, more people would travel.

      The airlines should lobby to make security less intrusive and focus on real threats, followed by providing better service on-board.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    3. Re:Glad to hear they're ashamed by RivenAleem · · Score: 3, Funny

      Okay, I know it's called Security Theatre, but lets try to keep it to car analogies around here, please.

    4. Re:Glad to hear they're ashamed by geekoid · · Score: 2

      Air flight in the US is too cheap.

      Pre 9-11 airline were in charge of security. It was a failure of the private sector.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    5. Re:Glad to hear they're ashamed by schnell · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Air flight in the US is too cheap.

      This exactly. It's a free market, and the market gets what it wants - cheap airfare. Too cheap, really - the airlines operate on razor-thin margins, can't pay their indirect costs (pensions, maintenance on aging airplanes) and keep going bankrupt to shed costs. The majority of us consumers get the cheap fares we want, but we pay the collateral cost of terrible service. (Southwest is the exception that proves the rule - they're always profitable, even on low fares, but have only a single aircraft fleet to maintain and are staunchly anti-union so they pay lower salaries/benefits. And I would argue that their service is still pretty crappy, even if they smile more while handing you the tiny bag of pretzels.)

      This being a free market, you can pay more and get better service, by flying first class. But these days, the majority of flyers in the first class cabin (occasionally including me) are there because we're frequent flyers, not because we paid for it.So at least in the US, first class doesn't bring in enough revenue to justify the type of service you get in first class on Cathay, Lufthansa, etc.

      So I think the bottom line is that the terrible quality of a flying experience in the US today is a direct result of the market getting what it wants. Everything else is an unintended but natural consequence.

      --
      "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
    6. Re:Glad to hear they're ashamed by jandersen · · Score: 2

      Travelling by air has become much less pleasant than it was,...

      Oh yes, hasn't it just. I remember a couple of years ago I was going to Beijing, from London. I always choose the cheapest flight, so this time it was Aeroflot - yes, THAT Aeroflot - and then the weather turned bad (almost an inch of snow, woooo, but that is enough to cause major disruptions in UK). My flight was cancelled, and when I finally got on the way, it was on an Aeroflot plane apparently built in the sixties.

      And that is where it turned weird: it was miles better than any modern airline. Leather on the seats, loads of leg room, and so on and so on. Sadly, the air hostesses were from that same period too... But think of that: A modern plane is worse than what Aeroflot used in the sixties or so.

  2. Modern Shunning by resistant · · Score: 3, Informative

    One wonders what would happen if an ad-hoc, "name and shame" reputation network were to identify TSA agents everywhere they went. It's easy to imagine the near-universal environment of hate stares, extreme rudeness and occasional violence from victims of the TSA's Orwellian tactics putting direct pressure on TSA employees themselves to drastically reform their arrogant policies.

    --
    A truly excellent pizza parlor is a delight unto the heavens. Treasure the sauce and the toppings!
    1. Re:Modern Shunning by tlhIngan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      One wonders what would happen if an ad-hoc, "name and shame" reputation network were to identify TSA agents everywhere they went. It's easy to imagine the near-universal environment of hate stares, extreme rudeness and occasional violence from victims of the TSA's Orwellian tactics putting direct pressure on TSA employees themselves to drastically reform their arrogant policies.

      That will just weed out the thin-skinned ones and leave the psychopathic "I love the TSA!" types. The ones who relish the power given to them. And being named just makes them "famous" and even prouder.

      It's just like police officers - it's easy to say "we need to increase the number of officers by 50", but quite a lot harder to actually do so (finding the right people is very difficult, and it's a rather thankless job that doesn't pay that well for the risks). So the good people don't generally go into policing, and since you need 50 officers, you lower the bar of entry until the bottom-of-the-barrel folks get in. Which is what we have now - people who'll gladly violate your privacy and screw you over because they've got the power to do so.

      The more rational among them say "screw it" and quit, leaving a position open for someone else who wants to be "powerful" to join the ranks.

    2. Re:Modern Shunning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly. It'd be a self-reinforcing death spiral, and the people who would pay the price would be everybody else.

      It'd be like if everybody believes politics to be a dishonest mud trough, we'd just end up with a bunch of greedy pigs who like to wallow in it.

    3. Re:Modern Shunning by SirGarlon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you want to harass someone, get to the root cause: the politicians who created the TSA and who approve, even demand, its invasive practices. Blaming the TSA employee for the abusive system is like blaming a hospital orderly for the high costs of health care.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    4. Re:Modern Shunning by kinkozmasta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Blaming the TSA employee for the abusive system is like blaming a hospital orderly for the high costs of health care.

      This is not an appropriate analogy at all. Regardless of the cost and efficiency of healthcare, the hospital orderly is still trying to help you. The same is not true for the TSA employee. They, as individuals, have made a choice to take a job that they know in advance will be violating your rights. While I agree that we should also be blaming, writing and harassing the politicians who implemented these programs in the first place, but the TSA employees should not be immune from any criticism and grief that comes their way..

    5. Re:Modern Shunning by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      So you believe "befehl ist befehl"?

      Signing up to work for the TSA, is supporting that system. With no employees it would not function.

    6. Re:Modern Shunning by reasterling · · Score: 2

      It is hard to "demand" invasive practices if you can not find any one will to do them. Furthermore, as to the idea that the wrong employees will be the ones who stay, I say let them then sew the TSA for every time their employees get out of line. We the people have the power to fix this problem, but we are too cowardly and affraid of our own government. :(

      --
      "For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice" -- God
    7. Re:Modern Shunning by Ritchie70 · · Score: 2

      It varies a lot.

      I don't really travel that much, but I have encountered TSA two or four times a year for most years since they've existed.

      Some are friendly and as helpful as they are allowed to be. Others are clearly just tired of their job but doing it. Just like any other job.

      If you read the blog in the summary, the author talks about letting little stuff go (and thereby breaking the rules) when it makes no sense. Like not confiscating the swiss army knife in the airline pilot's bag, or making up excuses to keep toddlers out of the scanners during the early days when they were not exempt.

      Don't blame the guy at McDonald's making the burger if you don't like how the Mac sauce tastes, either. He didn't make it, he just squirted it on.

      --
      The preferred solution is to not have a problem.
  3. I have a relative who works by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 5, Interesting

    for the TSA. It's the only job he's ever been able to hold down.

    He's stupid and lazy, but at least he's arrogant. Almost killed my cousin, his wife, by convincing her that chiropractic should replace her insulin.

    He's fiercely proud of the TSA.

    --
    This space available.
    1. Re:I have a relative who works by mythosaz · · Score: 2

      The primary competitor for the bodies applying for TSA jobs is WalMart.

      Draw your own conclusions.

    2. Re:I have a relative who works by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Many people don't realize how valuable a trait arrogance is. Sounding self-confident despite not knowing anything will get you far in life.

  4. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They're great against lions too. When is the last time you've heard of a lion attack at a terminal?

    We're wasting over $8,000,000,000 per year on them when we could be spending it on other things. That's 42% of NASA's current budget. Add it up over 11 years, that's a boatload of cash.

  5. You're not thinking of the children. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Can we please be a bit rational and think of the children?

    Please?

  6. Not that unpopular by Improv · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For as much as the technolibertarian parts of the geek community loves to rage against the TSA, they're not actually that unpopular with the general public. There's some good poll data on this.

    --
    For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
    1. Re:Not that unpopular by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Informative

      This poll does, and strangely enough doesn't find much difference.

    2. Re:Not that unpopular by berashith · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Just because the general public is rather stupid, does not mean they are right.

    3. Re:Not that unpopular by Jeng · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I can see why the answers are favorable, they don't ask the right questions.

      Do you think that the TSA has gone overboard and needs to scale back some of their policies?

      Do you approve of having a nude image of yourself displayed for complete strangers?

      Do you think that the TSA's policies on liquids is irrational?

      etc...

      You ask

      How effective do you think the TSA's procedures are at preventing acts of terrorism on U.S. airplanes?

      Well, they are effective, but that is not the issue. The procedures that the Israeli use are more effective, but less intrusive.

      It's like there is a complaint about bullshit in McDonald's burgers, so they put out a poll that asks about how fast you get your burger, and since no one can complain about the speed they get their burger the poll results are positive.

      The issue is we need to get the bullshit out of the TSA, what they scored positively in the polls doesn't need to change, what needs to change is what was not asked in the polls.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    4. Re:Not that unpopular by 0111+1110 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You actually think TSA's procedures are effective at preventing terrorism? The same way that having a magic rock can protect you from tigers?

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    5. Re:Not that unpopular by Kwyj1b0 · · Score: 2

      This poll does, and strangely enough doesn't find much difference.

      I find the data extremely interesting, specifically the effectiveness by age group - it seems that younger people (some of whom have had to deal with the TSA for a significant portion of their lives) are significantly more likely to rate the agency positive compared to an older age group. This was an effect I feared - people get used to anything, and become passive. They don't know how much better air travel could be.

      I hope someone can give me some other viewpoint, because it seems to me that the lesson many government agencies might take away is this: Doesn't matter how well/poorly you do - just create enough of a bureaucracy/hysteria so that you can last for a decade, and people will accept it as the new normal.

    6. Re:Not that unpopular by 0111+1110 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually it's pretty easy to say it. They have never thwarted an attack. Ever. Their fancy imaging machines don't actually work to detect explosives. Or really much of anything else. Certainly no better than a metal detector. There is nothing they are doing now that would stop a terrorist with an IQ above 60.

      The only procedures in place now that would have thwarted the 9/11 plot are the locked and presumably reinforced cockpit doors, the realization of the passengers that if they cooperate they will just die anyway (no more highjackings), and maybe the occassional air marshal or armed pilot.

      If the TSA were effective you would be seeing alternative targets attacked. Suicide bombs in the security lines themselves. Buses. Trains. Shopping malls. Sporting events. Nuclear reactors. Water supplies. Subways during rush hour. Possibly simultaneously. There are lots of targets other than aviation that could have been attacked if the terrorists wanted to and found aviation too difficult now.

      None of that has happened because there just aren't any serious terrorists targeting the US at the moment. If you do the research you'll find that what is called "Al Queda" may not even actually exist. It was just a small number of guys who were pissed off at the US. Most of them either died in the 9/11 attacks or feel that 9/11 was sufficient payback and more attacks are not a priority at the moment. Who knows. All we know is that for whatever reason no terrorist organizations have targeted the US since 9/11. Keep in mind that there weren't many before 9/11 either.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    7. Re:Not that unpopular by 0111+1110 · · Score: 2

      If you are trying to argue that nuclear weapons are more or less pointless 99.99999% of the time I would agree with you. I don't think we can credit nuclear weapons for preventing a Soviet attack against the US. I don't think the Soviets had any real interest in launching nukes at us. It would have been utterly pointless. If the Soviets wanted to attack us they could have done so the usual way. The Soviets didn't launch nukes at us for the same reason that they didn't launch them against Afghanistan despite the fact that the Afghanis had not a single nuclear weapon to retaliate with. No one has ever used nuclear weapons except us probably because they just aren't very practical. They are too destructive. If you have to resort to nuclear weapons then you've probably already lost. I think nuclear weapons are really only useful in assymetric warfare. If you think a well armed bully country like the US might attack you having a nuclear weapon might be good insurance. Although I don't believe it to be the total panacea that some make it out to be. Having a nuclear weapon is one thing. Being crazy or stupid enough to actually use it is another.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    8. Re:Not that unpopular by readin · · Score: 2

      I assume the reasons the Soviet Union didn't use nukes on Afghanistan that the world opinion fallout would have been bad (and their contest with the free world included trying to convince people the Soviet Union wasn't evil), and that nukes wouldn't have provided much tactical advantage in the guerilla style war they were facing anyway. The Afghans didn't control any industrialized cities whose destruction would help the war effort.

      Following WWII the Russians had a lot of troops all set to fight. They took over eastern Europe. Without American nuclear weapons, what would have stopped Russia from taking over all of Europe once Russia obtained nuclear weapons? It would have been the exact scenario you describe "If you think a well armed bully country like the [Soviet Union] might attack you having a nuclear weapon might be good insurance."

      --
      I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
    9. Re:Not that unpopular by mhotchin · · Score: 2

      You can replace 'rock' with 'locked cockpit doors and a public awareness that the hijacking rules have changed.'.

      TSA has nothing to do with it, otherwise as somebody says above me the bad people would just shift to other targets. I haven't seen any Al Queda attacks, um, *anywhere* in the states.

  7. He is thinking of the children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Can we please be a bit rational and think of the children?

    He is, he noted that the TSA is 42% of NASA's budget. With that kind of increased funding we could send the children into space!

    After all, in space no-one can hear you scream.

    1. Re:He is thinking of the children by aevan · · Score: 3, Funny

      Great, now i've images of the TSA preventing the terminal attacks by sending dangerous lions into low earth orbit, all the while wishing they could tell the common man about the important work they do.

  8. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I keep asking if this is so true then why does every nationality and US state that has stricter gun laws have a lower rate of gun death?

    No one has ever answered me.

    It's a correlation that is hard to get around, but as usual people on that side of the debate ignore the facts.

  9. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by Sir_Sri · · Score: 4, Informative

    Because the evidence, say, from Japan, that an almost complete prohibition of firearms will make the murder rate very low. Even if you look at say, germany and the UK, who have much higher violent crime rates than the US, their murder rate is much lower.

    There should be a TSA, it should try and prevent dangerous shit from getting on aircraft, trains, airports etc. It's not that there shouldn't be a TSA, it's that the TSA as implemented is unlikely to efficiently accomplish any of the broad goals it has.

    You're right that stopping the occasional mass shooting is extremely hard. That's actually the wrong target for the US, the real target for the US should be handguns and work from there. Despite the occasional mass shooting the US averages about 40 murders a day, whereas the equivalent rate in the EU would be more like 10.

  10. There is going to be a day when... by dryriver · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... America wakes up to the fact that measures like intrusive TSA screenings are all about keeping the ordinary American scared of "bad guys", and not about improving security tangibly. There are many countries around the world that don't have the equivalent of the "TSA", yet manage to get through year after year without a major incident. Americans, however, are not supposed to wake up, ever. That's what you get when a handful of ill intentioned lobbyists and gatekeepers control virtually the entire media, most large corporations, and a lot of the government decisions and lawmaking in a country.

    --
    Why did the chicken cross the road? Because Elon Musk put an AI chip in its head.
    1. Re:There is going to be a day when... by RoTNCoRE · · Score: 2

      And you need to maintain this fear to keep the funds rolling, and the critical thinking low. What do you think the Terror Alert Levels (Red, Orange, etc) were all about? Do you really think the public at large can do anything meaningful with that information?

  11. No sympathy from me by Kwyj1b0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While I understand that people have to feed their families and need a job, the people working at the TSA employees get no sympathy from me. Yes, you have every right to hate your job and still do it. But if you are in a "service" industry (or more generally, where you interact with a large number of people), you shouldn't do a shitty job just because you hate it. Most TSA people seem to try the experience unpleasant for passengers. And with a myriad of changing rules, they don't seem to grasp that people will make mistakes. Even a slight deviation from routine gets you the "deluxe" treatment (like the woman carrying a bottle with breast milk being held up for hours).

    Case in point - I got a belt that has an buckle that can be removed because I got tired of pulling my belt on and off each time I flew. And I have been through the all types of scanners without a problem in most airports. But one day a new type of scanner seems to have a problem with just the belt "blocking" the view. So rather than just make me remove the whole belt and pass through, they need to do a pat-down that takes much longer. BTW, what happens if my trousers fall down because I need to keep my hands on my head while being scanned? Do I need to register on some type of list somewhere?

    No matter how bad a day a waiter is having, he shouldn't spit on food. And TSA employees should treat people like people, not like a piece of meat on a slaughter line.

    1. Re:No sympathy from me by Mitreya · · Score: 4, Informative

      No matter how bad a day a waiter is having, he shouldn't spit on food. And TSA employees should treat people like people, not like a piece of meat on a slaughter line.

      There is a crucial difference in these two examples

      If I caught a waiter spitting in someone's food, I could have them fired or worse. Good luck holding a TSA representative responsible for anything, even if they did something bad. It's like you would complain about the waiter spitting in your food, the restaurant association would review your complaint and then inform you that such behavior aligns with restaurant's official policy. And if you press the issue, you could get fined/arrested or even put on the "no eat" list.

      If you allow people to behave badly without fear of punishment, you should expect that they will. In part because the people who are attracted to such positions will be more prone to perpetrating abuse.

  12. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by lightknight · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I believe it's a coping mechanism. See, people love power, but they hate responsibility. So life is mostly a game of musical chairs / random shuffling of the deck in the attempt to better your position -> does your new job have more power, and less responsibility? Then you win. Does it have less power and more responsibility? Then you lose.

    By crying out to their government to 'make those things we don't like' illegal, they place the future responsibility for any failures firmly on their government's back. We all know that the government can't be everywhere, at all times, but that doesn't prevent some people for blaming it for not being so. So, in this case, the power to be f*cking idiots is retained by the people, while the responsibility for their actions is left to their government. A wonderful recipe full of fail.

    Think of it as being a war between individual responsibility versus group responsibility. In the former, all power is retained by the individual, but also all responsibility. In the latter, well...how many people here have worked on group projects before? How many would do so again? The point being, in any group, some members will work harder, others will slack. The person representing the group may have more power than others, or less so; responsibility for group actions may be placed on the whole group, or just one person. Being in a group means, typically, giving up some of your power, but, as I pointed out earlier, can be considered a win if more responsibility is offloaded onto others than the power lost.

    Of course, modern society, as you have seen, can be a little insane here. There are people out there, earning $7 / hour, on whom all the responsibility for a business is placed, while there are some earning $100,000 / hour, with no responsibility save getting dressed in the morning.

    That and, for some odd reason, a fair portion of the human race seems completely unaware that inside each of them is a MacGuyver, that, when pressed into a corner, occasionally pops out to do 'uncertain' things. 'Tis easier to wash a cat than convince a creative human not to strike back at their aggressors, real or imagined.

    --
    I am John Hurt.
  13. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by mythosaz · · Score: 2

    What does NASA use the other 58% of their budget on?

  14. Worse than rent-a-cops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "TSA gets discussed on Slashdot from time to time, ALWAYS negatively..."

    Ftfy. The TSA is always discussed negatively here -- and rightfully so. Take the entire body of evidence as to TSA's effectiveness and procedures, then toss in a million or so anecdotes about TSA's harassment & sheer stupidity, and no wonder they are so looked down on.

    Yet another anecdote: in August, I was told I'd have to go through a backscatter or be patted down. I _politely_ said no, I'll opt for the patdown. The fifty-something TSA rent-a-cop (Keystone Kop?), in a half-assed attempt at condescension, "explained" to me that "this machine is not harmful, it uses millimeter wave technology that is the same technology in your cell phone -- it's just as safe as your cell phone." I resisted calling him a dumb fuck, and I _politely_ said that I'll opt for the patdown. He became aggressive and persisted with his bullshit reasoning, and I _politely_ said based on what I've read, I'll opt for the patdown. The dumb fuck yelled at me "WELL EVERYTHING YOU READ IS WRONG!" I know, I know, whilst in the presence of a TSA rent-a-cop I was wrong to say that I actually read. So there you have it, slashdotters, I have solid evidence that everything we've read --and I suppose written-- is WRONG. That fascist fuck will be head of TSA some day. And the patdown is a memory I will always cherish!

      Guess who's avoiding airports and instead driving from CO to PA this holiday

    1. Re:Worse than rent-a-cops by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2

      I made the mistake of saying "based on what I read...", because as we all know, if one says _anything_ then TSA can haul you away; I should'nt have even said that much.

      Your mistake was to put your authority up against his authority. Next time use some else's authority - tell them your oncologist told you to avoid all of the scanners. Since your oncologist is not actually present the TSAtard can't win an argument with him no matter what and at worst must argue that he knows better than a doctor with a PhD in cancer.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  15. watch the movie The Lives of Others by Dan667 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lives_of_Others This is what the US is working to. I hope making tsa employees miserable will push things back the other way. We use to make fun of communists and their "show me your papers" paranoia.

  16. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by wierd_w · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would say that is basic statistics.

    Eg, the rate of vehicular related deaths among 3rd world, uncontacted jungle villages is amazingly low. It doesn't mean they are safer drivers, it means nobody drives, so nobody dies while driving.

    It's like saying there is no disease, and no starvation on mars. Of course there isn't, nobody lives there. It doesn't mean mars is a utopian paradise.

    Rather than looking myopically at "gun related deaths", you should look at overall "deaths by violent crime".

    The percentage of those deaths via firearms is a function of availability. The rate of deaths overall by violent crimes is what you are really looking for.

    But it doesn't sound as sensational when you say "sure, your chances of being killed in a violent crime are 3x higher, but your chances of being shot are nearly nonexistent!", instead of "almost nobody gets shot here!"

    The question to ask is not "do less people get shot", the question to ask is "is there less overall violent crime?"

    (This is especially important whe you consider that part of the ascribed deterrent effect [if it exists], is the implication that violent criminals will themselves be more likely to BE shot. As such, if said violent criminals *are* being shot, they will contribute to the "gun related deaths" statistic.)

  17. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by BigSlowTarget · · Score: 5, Insightful

    [citation required] DC has gun laws but a high homicide rate. North Dakota has few laws but a low one. I know Mexico has strict laws that simply don't work.

    The reasonable question I would ask is "What is the complete impact of stricter gun laws on crime." You then need to decide what mix of gun deaths, crime, cost, laws and civil liberties you want to go with. Just saying gun death rate reduction is the only acceptable goal is not a reasonable way to consider the whole question.

  18. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by Dan667 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    historically, the Founding Fathers put the 2nd Amendment into the Constitution so that if the government was not taking care of the people they could rise up like the American Colonists did against the British.

  19. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because the evidence, say, from Japan, is that an almost complete prohibition of firearms and a very low murder rate are not mutually exclusive.

    FTFY.

    Or did Japan used to have a high murder rate until they took away the guns?

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  20. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by Joce640k · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe it's just that the people in states with high levels of general crime/gangs/drug culture are the ones demanding the right to own guns...it's not surprising there are more murders in those states.

    correlation != causation

    --
    No sig today...
  21. flying sucks by Alien+Being · · Score: 2

    If god had meant for man to fly then he wouldn't have created the assholes in the TSA, the thieving baggage handlers, bogus chinese airplane parts and overbooking. I have no desire to ever travel more than 1000 miles from home and I can drive that far in a day. To hell with air travel. I hope they all crash and burn in desolate areas.

    1. Re:flying sucks by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 2

      The thing is, flying remains the safest way to travel. You are more likely to die in a car crash than by all airplane incidents combined. Trains are next up on the list of safe ways to travel. Cars are near the bottom of the list, next to "bushwacking through a rainforest."

      It also helps that flying is faster than other forms of transportation, at least over long distances. That is why the TSA gets away with their program. If you had to go through TSA-style procedures to drive a car, so many people would stop driving cars that the petroleum and automobile industries would tear their politicians apart until the TSA was disbanded. Unfortunately, people live so far away from their families, and businesses have so little patience for travel delays that other modes of transit just cannot compete with flying. Amtrak is great along the costs, and can really compete with flying between Boston and Washington, DC, but for a cross-country or trans-ocean trip, it's flying or bust.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    2. Re:flying sucks by Alien+Being · · Score: 2

      Dig into the details and most of the apparent advantages of flying disappear. You still need to take road transportation to and from the airports. A large percentage of car accidents happen during short trips in congested areas when the driver's guard is down. Your lost/stolen luggage will cost money and time. You'll might have to rent a car at your destination and deal with all those hassles.

      Airline delays happen all the time. I once drove home from Florida, 1200 miles, with snow in the northern stretch and still beat a friend who got shuffled around by the airlines. Those of us in the car, a small motorhome actually, ate well, drank when appropriate, had a million laughs, slept soundly and arrived relaxed and rested. The poor bastard who flew was completely frazzled.

  22. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by Entropy98 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Japan also has a suicide rate 2-3x times higher than the US. It's a different culture, if you gave everyone in the US a katana I doubt we'd have a seppuku epidemic.

    A big part of our high murder rate is the drug war. You can try and take away everything besides rocks and pointy sticks (and fail miserably) but the drug dealers will keep killing each other. Nothing besides complete legalization is going to end it.

  23. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by Samalie · · Score: 2

    And keep in mind that the readily available firearms at the time were single-shot muzzleload rifles. I'd really be curious what the founders would think of the 2nd in the semi-auto hi-cap magazine world we live in today?

    --
    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
  24. Re:gun control, and mass shoutings by hsthompson69 · · Score: 2

    Well, I'd start by actually visiting Japan - the culture there is incredibly different than anything you can find in the US. I mean, just all the judeo-christian crap that we all take for granted here, is just completely absent. And make no doubt - it's not all good either, there's a pernicious racism there and a great deal of misogyny, but you simply cannot look at that culture and assume that you have controlled for its effect in crime.

    But if you want an enumeration:

    1) homogeneity - literally, no "eye color/hair color" on driver's licenses. fix that correlation by only comparing to other homogenous populations (excludes a *bunch* of the US, although there are certainly enclaves here and there)

    2) judeo-christian background. fix that correlation by only comparing non-judeochristianmuslim populations (excludes a *bunch* of the US again)

    3) height and weight. Just for fun to see if there's any sort of relationship between crime and either size, or proportional size.

    I know, it could be that American exceptionalism means that there is no good comparison in other countries (either with more guns or less guns), but there you have it.

  25. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 3, Funny

    What does NASA use the other 58% of their budget on?

    Hookers and Black Jack, or so I've heard.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  26. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by NatasRevol · · Score: 2

    Well, not NO gun crime. but .5/100k population.
    Whereas the US is 6/100k population.

    --
    There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  27. Bad Press by mk1004 · · Score: 2

    And what are the chances that the TSA will now require current and future employees to sign a contract stating that they can never divulge the inner workings of the TSA? A transparent government organization such as the TSA will, of course, want to keep its stellar reputation intact.

    --
    I can mend the break of day, heal a broken heart, and provide temporary relief to nymphomaniacs.
  28. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 2

    There should be a TSA, it should try and prevent dangerous shit from getting on aircraft, trains, airports etc.

    OK, let's start with the most dangerous thing commonly brought onto a transportation system: cars. Yes, cars, they kill thousands of travelers each yeah. The automobile lobby likes to point out that plenty of responsible car drivers practice good car safety and don't go around killing people, but the rest of us know how dangerous cars are.

    See, the best part about dangerous things is that nobody wants to lose the dangerous things they personally like to own, use, and play with. Like firearms. Like knives. Like the lithium ion battery in your laptop.

    the TSA as implemented is unlikely to efficiently accomplish any of the broad goals it has.

    The TSA is accomplishing its goals, just not the ones they make known to the public. The TSA is showing people who's boss, which was the only goal that ever mattered.

    --
    Palm trees and 8
  29. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by runlvl0 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Your argument is predicated on the notion that someone would travel from the great state of Texas to a retarded backwater like New York.

    Enjoy your small sodas.

    --

    Carthago delenda est!
  30. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 3, Informative

    [citation required] DC has gun laws but a high homicide rate. North Dakota has few laws but a low one.

    Or, same population size living in vastly different population densities.

    D.C.: Population: 617,996, Area: 68.3 sq mi
    North Dakota: Population: 683,932, Area: 70,703 sq mi

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  31. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That and, for some odd reason, a fair portion of the human race seems completely unaware that inside each of them is a MacGuyver, that, when pressed into a corner, occasionally pops out to do 'uncertain' things. 'Tis easier to wash a cat than convince a creative human not to strike back at their aggressors, real or imagined.

    Aha, someone finally argued it (not that I read every possible post). Pistols are a weapon of convenience, and a fairly low collateral one at that. If those were not available, some would use bows, crossbows, throwing knives, shivs, multitools, or just a carefully thrown rock. However, they might also use chlorine gas, fuel air explosives, difficult to extinguish incendiaries, anthrax, or other weapons with even less precision.

    Blaming an act on the tool chosen is laziness, and the one thing humans have gotten VERY good at over the centuries is learning what things can kill eachother quickly or brutally. Looking at my desk, I think a stickynote is the only thing that I can not determine how to use as a debilitating/deadly weapon, and that's probably a lapse in imagination more than a trait of the stickynote.

  32. Re:gun control, and mass shoutings by cayenne8 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Off the top of my head, how culture views human life, availability of help for mental distress (ie if someone feels they're going to do something dangerous, can they actually get help without being treated like a murderer), society's view of the mentally ill (will they see you as someone responsible enough to get help for a disease, or 'get this fucking crazy away from me'), how pervasive classism is, quality of life, number of people living in poverty, how poor that poverty actually is, etc.

    That's true.

    Aside from peoples' rants on here about not being 'free health care in the US for mental problems'....if the person has any sanity left, they do NOT want to seek mental health.

    Talk about a serious blot on your record. It can keep you out of many jobs that you might need. Forget a security clearance....but even shy of that, likely hits you on insurance rates, if you can get a loan, etc.

    Even if you get better, or it was something temporary....if you ever had to be treated for mental health issues, that shit will follow you around for the rest of your life, just like being branded a sex offender will do.

    Except the damages and discrimination will be a little more covert.

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  33. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yes, look at Switzerland. Where those weapons are in the hands of a well-regulated militia (sound familiar?) as a substitute for a standing army, whose members receive extensive training in weapon safety, and understand that those weapons are for national defense, not to kill whomever they find personally threatening.

  34. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I keep asking if this is so true then why does every nationality and US state that has stricter gun laws have a lower rate of gun death?

    No one has ever answered me.

    One: it's a meaningless question. It's not the gun deaths that matter; it's the total deaths. If you reduce guns deaths by 2,000 but knife deaths rise by 2,000, you haven't gained anything.

    Two: It's not true. Jamaica has much tougher gun control than the US. It also has a gun death rate almost five times the US's.

    There's your answer.

  35. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Japan also has a mafia so powerful it has influence over the government, and while we were telling the English king to go fuck himself, they were living in feudal aristocracy that was utterly submissive and caste-ridden. Even for the supposedly macho samurai, it was considered a point of honor to die like a little bitch for your lord, and to fail him required suicide. They were also the only people allowed to carry weapons and they could and did murder peasants with impunity. (I guess when your lord could ass-rape you if he wanted, you tend to take it out on the little people. Come to think of it, the Spartans did the same kind of shit, and they were big on ass-rape too.)

    So, does Japan not have a lot of murders because they lack guns, or do they lack murders (and guns) because they've always been a docile, subservient people, violent only when allowed to be in the service of their betters?

  36. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by 0111+1110 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The founders believed that the citizenry had to be able to protect themselves against their own government. I don't think they would care whether that was done with stone axes and primitive bows and arrows are with x-ray lasers and particle beams. They would certainly believe that if the government had it the citizenry should be able to have it too.

    --
    Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
  37. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by Shagg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Rather than looking myopically at "gun related deaths", you should look at overall "deaths by violent crime".

    I'm sorry, but intelligence has no place in a debate about gun control.

    --
    Unix is user friendly, it's just selective about who its friends are.
  38. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And keep in mind that the readily available firearms at the time were single-shot muzzleload rifles.

    And keep in mind that muzzleloaders were the only firearms available to the government too. I will give up my assault rifle when the government gives up theirs.

  39. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by Algae_94 · · Score: 2

    An anti-gun agenda is an agenda to reduce the number of guns or eliminate them all together. I think that is rather obvious, isn't it?

    Why do you think using the term agenda implies a conspiracy theory / government take over / hidden agendas?

    agenda - noun: a list, plan, outline, or the like, of things to be done, matters to be acted or voted upon, etc

  40. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by reasterling · · Score: 2

    What exactly is this "gun show loophole"? I have gone to many gun shows, and I can tell you first hand that all dealers at gun shows will still require you to do a federal background check just like when you buy a gun at a store. Private citicens might be able to sell you a gun without a background check, but that can happen with or with out a gun show.
    As a Texas resident, I can assure you that the opinion of what constitutes a "retarded" state is exactly the oposite here. It is most likely just a cultural difference, however when you compare the actual crime rates the differences are only a fraction of a percent between Texas and New York. This would seem to indicate that criminals will be criminals with or with out strict gun laws. I personal would rather have the ability to defend myself if I ever had the need.

    --
    "For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice" -- God
  41. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by Shatrat · · Score: 2

    It's not surprising that people living in an area with high crime would like to be able to legally defend themselves. Gangs and drug dealers don't care if it's legal or not.

    --
    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
  42. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by bit+trollent · · Score: 2, Informative

    Undercover video of a gun show purchase without a background check

    It would seem that you would rather ignore the gun show loophole than do anything to close it.

    And I can assure you that no matter how smart Texans think they are, our schools (yes I live in Texas) rank 48th in the country, and Texans really aren't all that bright.

    Arrogant, yes. But your average Texan isn't half as smart as he thinks he is.

  43. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 5, Informative

    The reasonable question I would ask is "What is the complete impact of stricter gun laws on crime."

    Glad to oblige! Here's a scientific study done by the Australian government to determine the result of the crackdown on firearms possession post-Port Arthur massacre. It's got numbers in it, and the statistical determination is all well laid out for you.

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2704353/

    --
    Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
  44. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by nschubach · · Score: 2

    But their killing each other only inflates the "death by gun" statistics making it look like the major cities have some sort of major gun problem when it's really just a tool used by people looking to hurt their competition or destitute customer.

    --
    Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
  45. Never let a good crisis go to waste... by erp_consultant · · Score: 2

    That quote by Rahm Emanuel will go down in infamy. It's probably the most brutally honest thing I've ever heard a politician say. And it's exactly why the TSA exists. Post 9/11 much of the American people were in a state of fear - fear stoked by the US government and the media. They WANT you to be afraid so that they can create agencies like the TSA. The TSA is not about guarding against "terrorism" - it's about gaining further control over the American people. Just like the Patriot Act.

    Have you ever taken a good look at any of those TSA agents? I mean really taken a look at them? The one's I've seen have this glazed over look that only Federal Government employees seem to possess. That emotionless, heartless, I-don't-give-a-shit, 1,000 mile stare. Want a local version? Try your DMV office. I'm sure you can find plenty there as well. Must be a training ground for TSA drones.

    I suspect that very few people actually want to work for the TSA. Some of them probably think I'll just do this for a while and then I'll get a real job. But they get sucked in and before you know it you've got the 1,000 mile stare too. Getting out of public sector was the best move I ever made.

  46. Well Written and Funny by TheNinjaroach · · Score: 3, Informative

    This blog is well written and funny. I've been laughing at my desk for a good 15 minutes now, I plan to finish this thing off before I head home.

    --
    I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
  47. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by dev.null.matt · · Score: 5, Informative

    According to wikipedia, the rate of homicide in the US is 4.2/100k people and the rate of gun related homicide is 3.7/100k people. Therefor, 89%ish of US homicides are gun related homicides.

    Contrast this with the UK, which has 1.2/100k homicides and 0.04/100k gun related homicides, or 3.3% of homicides are gun related.

    Another way to look at this would be to consider the guns per gun related homicide numbers. In the US, there are approximated 89k guns per 100k people, giving a guns per gun-homicide ratio of 24k guns per gun-homicide. Serbia, the #2 country for guns per capita has approximately 58k guns per 100k people, giving them a guns per gun-homicide rate of 93k guns per gun-homicide.

    Clearly, in the states we're all about shooting each other, even in comparison to other nations with (roughly, since no one can claim truly similar) similar rates of gun ownership. Put another way, in the US, we have more gun related homicides per capita (by a factor of 4 almost) than most developed countries have in TOTAL homicides.

    Full disclosure: I fully suspect that if guns were outlawed here in the US, we would see an alarming rise in knife related crime. I personally think that everyone here is so willing to kill each other because we have so little vacation time. Damned Protestant work ethic!

    Sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

  48. THIS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    I simply refuse to travel by airplane anymore...perhaps if more people did the same, the 'bean-counters' might wake the hell up and realise they're spoiling it for everyone.

    I realise that this is not an option for many people but for enough people, it is. Let them suffer the consequences of their own actions. I mean, that's how we teach kids to behave isn't it? And these idiot accountants who seem to have no appreciation of what it's like to be human are nothing but children in adult-suits.

  49. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by 0111+1110 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Fidel Castro overthrew Batista with only a small group of armed men. They were able to accomplish that because there were mass defections from the pro-Batista military.

    I have no doubt that a sufficiently well prepared group could overthrow the US government. People have this idea that you need F-16s and bombers. You don't. The US government is unlikely to drop bombs on its own cities and towns or even drive tanks through the city streets. Most of the combat would be guys with rifles against guys with rifles. Whoever had more guys with guns would probably win.

    But all of this is beside the point. Overthrowing the government was not the only reason the Founders wanted a well-armed citizenry or citizen-soldiers like the MInutemen. It is to defend ourselves and preserve our freedom for any reason at all. It might be a government that has gone full-1984 or it might be a particular branch of the government enforcing some new law. It could be some circumstance that neither of us could even imagine at the moment. The details don't matter because the principle is the same. Self-defense with whatever the standard weapons are at the time is a basic human right. Only a government afraid of its own citizens would try to deny that right.

    --
    Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
  50. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by DarkTempes · · Score: 3, Informative

    Honestly, according to the statistics if we could just stop black males (and somewhat hispanic males, black females, and white males) from getting murdered so much then we'd be pretty close to first world European country homicide rates.

    We still wouldn't touch them on firearm-related homicides but that would look somewhat better.

    Sources:
    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_03.pdf
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

  51. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by avandesande · · Score: 2

    No other country has to deal with such a mix of cultures as the USA does. Comparing us with Japan is not useful.

    --
    love is just extroverted narcissism
  52. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by Dishevel · · Score: 2

    Even in England where gun control is massive and they do have decreased gun violence.
    They also found a way to bring up violent crimes as a whole to 4 times that of the US.
    So I am guessing that thugs with baseball bats feel safer beating me out of my cash if they know I am not armed.

    --
    Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
  53. TSA vs gun control by judoguy · · Score: 2

    How many people here deriding the TSA as security theater are, at the same time, screaming for more "gun control" in America because of the recent school shooting?

    --
    Peace is easy to achieve, just surrender. Liberty is much harder get/keep.
    1. Re:TSA vs gun control by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      Can we please stop trying to turn every Slashdot story discussion into another flamefest over gun control? We've already had two recent stories that addressed the subject directly, and one that was tangentially relevant but still got its comments hijacked. Half of this story comments is already about the same thing. There really isn't any point in rehashing this over and over again every day, unless you're just trolling / flamebaiting.

  54. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by reasterling · · Score: 2
    The only thing that that video has to do with gun shows is that it was at gun shows that the "private collectors" sold their guns. Dealers are required to get a federal background check. Private collectors are not required to do a background check before selling a gun. A private collector can sell you a gun with or without a gun show. Meaning that this is not a "gun show" loophole. This is simply the right of a property owner to sell his or her property.

    But your average Texan isn't half as smart as he thinks he is.

    Your average Texan thinks that he is at least 4 times smarter than everyone else. So, even if we are only half as smart as we think we are, we are still twice as smart as everyone else. ;)

    --
    "For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice" -- God
  55. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by geekoid · · Score: 2

    correlation does not imply causation.

    != means they would never be the same, and they can be.

    Unless you can think of something that causes something and has no correlation to it?

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  56. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by WhiplashII · · Score: 2

    No, that doesn't address the issue. That report only shows "firearm deaths" - we are looking at crime, which is a larger set than "firearm deaths".

    --
    while (sig==sig) sig=!sig;
  57. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by wierd_w · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Its also important to extrapolate out the number of gun related homocides that can't be (grossly) lumped in with "self defense" (this is not an endorsement, btw) situations.

    Eg, crook with crowbar breaks into house, homeowner shoots and kills him. The crook is a gun related homocide statistic.

    If overall violent crime is high, and firearm ownership is high, barring a social taboo, the number of persons being shot will also be comparably high. (If for no other reason, violent criminals are being shot.)

    If anything, the guns per homocide value having such a wide spread is fairly indicative that gun ownership/availability is not the primary controlling variable.

    Not saying the USA and our criminal statistics are in any way "a good thing", just that gun ownership and availability is only a contributing factor to the larger problem, which is overall greater criminality.

    Eg, "sensible people" + guns == only slight change in shootings.

    "Violent criminally minded people" (like americans) + guns == exagerated change in shootings.

    Curbing violent behaviors would be the primary variable to influence for the greatest reduction in homocides, including gun related.

  58. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by geekoid · · Score: 2

    Of course New York has more retarded people, they don't kill them.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  59. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by betterprimate · · Score: 2

    No, his argument is predicated on the notion that someone from Pennsylvania (few gun laws) would travel to Philadelphia, (strict laws), DC, or New York City.

    This happens frequently.

  60. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by acid_andy · · Score: 2

    or vagina.

    --
    Your ad here.
  61. Thy wish is granted! A car analogy. by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Imagine if traffic cops were allowed to write the traffic laws.

    That's where we are with the TSA. We need to separate threat assessment from implementation, or else the people who want to build their budgets and bureaucratic empires will "identify" hijacking dangers from nutrias and demand $250K each to buy magic anti-nutria rocks from companies that pay them "consulting" fees.

  62. Bruce Schneiered by sglow · · Score: 3, Funny

    I just think it's awesome that Bruce Schneier got a nod in the TSA dictionary:

    Bruce Schneiered: (V, ints) When a passenger uses logic in order to confound and perplex an officer into submission. Ex: “A TSA officer took my Swiss army knife, but let my scissors go. I then asked him wouldn’t it be more dangerous if I were to make my scissors into two blades, or to go into the bathroom on the secure side and sharpen my grandmother’s walking stick with one of the scissor blades into a terror spear. Then after I pointed out that all of our bodies contain a lot more than 3.4 ounces of liquids, the TSA guy got all pissed and asked me if I wanted to fly today. I totally Schneirered his ass.”

  63. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by dryeo · · Score: 2

    You could say the same thing about most western countries, with some variability about which minorities boost the homicide rate.

    --
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  64. Re:Another non-flyer by Stupendoussteve · · Score: 3, Informative

    TSA has done checkpoints and searches in Amtrak stations too, such as this one. It's just not as prevalent (yet?).

  65. Re:TSA, terrorism, gun control, and mass shootings by oobayly · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Because the number weren't quite so easy to get - gun ownership is divided up by Northern Ireland, England & Wales and the Scotland whereas crime isn't. Done very quickly, so there could be some errors:

    Northern Ireland: 21.9 guns/100
    England & Wales: 6.2 guns/100
    Scotland: 5.5 guns/100

    Populations:
    NI: 1,810,900
    E&W: 53,013,000
    S: 5,295,000

    Total number of guns in the UK: c.3,974,618
    Total population of the UK: c.60,118,900 (actual number is about 63 million, so I'm missing some people somehow)

    So we get 6.62k about guns /100k

    Finally, we get from this that the UK has about 165 guns per gun homicide, so basically we need almost 7 times as many guns to create a gun homicide than the US.

    Maybe you guys should try using sarcasm and witty put downs instead of killing each other when you get grumpy. </sarcasm>