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Israeli Bill Would Allow Secret Blacklists For Websites
jonklinger writes with the lead from his report on a move to hamper internet freedom in Israel: "Israel is to attempt, again, to pass a bill that authorizes police officers to issue warrants to Internet service providers to block or restrict access to specific websites involved either in gambling, child pornography or copyright infringement. The bill itself proposes that such administrative procedures shall be clandestine and that court decisions shall be made ex-parte, where some of the court's ruling will not be even dislosed to the owner of the website, and the court may hear and use inadmissible evidence."
Oooh secret courts! Censorship! Illegally-obtained evidence!
So much for "never again". We have become our enemy.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Each nation should be able to legislate and govern internet access in the way it sees fit; and best suite for its citizen's good. What's good for the US may not be good enough for Israel or even the UK, China or India. Just because the internet as it has eveolved so far is inter-operable across nations, does not mean it should be governed by a single set of rules, protocols and conventions.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
between "person who blogged about Olmert's overly aggressive war against Lebannon" and "Subversive Hezbollah sympathizer," that line needs to be in clear public view. It is a symbol of a country's bravery in times of fear. Ex-parte, non-disclosed proceedings will make it impossible for people to know the "why" and the balance the court has placed on fighting crime vs. sacrificing free speech. Without that visibility, there is zero chance that the line will be held in place, uninfluenced by politics.
Of all the people that I assumed would be on guard for the State taking powers that could easily be abused to silence the minority, I thought it would be them.
It's kind of hard to "secretly" block a web site, isn't it?
"Don't tell anyone, but no one can access this web site in Israel..."
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Weirdo.
Fuck Israel, let themselves segregate themselves into oblivion. I'm soo tired of hearing about ISREAL shut the fuck up about them. there are more worthy news topics out there.
Hi:
Good thing none of these things exist.
Which MP(s) are behind this initiative?
block or restrict access to specific websites involved either in gambling, child pornography or copyright infringement.
It used to be a joke when "copyright infringement" was put in the same category as serious offences, see this wonderful video. Are these politicians out of their mind, or are these people bought and paid for as the video suggests?
When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
is governments getting rid of civil rights and human rights in favor of communist type of laws.
the jews are now acting worse then nazis all they need do is start a genocide oh wait ..palestinians anyone....
Israel is not just Jews. This story is about the political power in Israel, it has nothing to do with Judaism.
I don't recall Israel saying they wanted to kill all Palestinians. The converse however is not true.
Why is 'because holocaust' acceptable to defend deplorable acts of the Israeli government and yet 'because slavery' is not acceptable to rationalize the deplorable acts of a minority of people with a darker skin tone than their European cousins?
Inappropriate?
will not be even dislosed to the owner of the website
And a few consonants will be removed.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
If they are trying to do good in a legal way, why does the government need such secrecy?
i.e. If you're not doing anything wrong, what do you have to hide?
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
"I don't recall Israel saying they wanted to kill all Palestinians."
Of course they don't say it; they're much to smart for that. (Imagine the international repercussions.) Instead, they just methodically take slow steps towards that end, taking West Bank resources and land, effectively imprisoning Gaza, calculating just enough calories to keep Palestinians alive but stunt the physical and brain growth of their children to ensure a stupid and obedient next generation, etc.
Note that the proposed law gives the power to censor to the Israeli justice minister. Yaakov Neeman, the current justice minister, is kind of weird. News articles:
There's a sizable ultra-orthodox faction in Israel which wants a political system where rabbis run things. Neeman is from that faction. Israel already has rabbinical courts, but they're currently restricted to ruling on religious issues and divorces. Neeman has said he wants to expand the authority of rabbinical courts, which in Israel are dominated by ultra-othodox rabbis.
Ultra-orthodox groups are very anti-Internet. This goes way beyond censoring pornography. There are special censored ISPs that only allow a list of 400 approved sites, most of which are religious.
So that's where this may be going, or at least where one faction would like to go. (Israel politics is currently deadlocked worse than US politics. There are many parties, none with a majority, and shifting coalitions. Different factions control different ministries as part of the deals made to put coalitions together. Just because the Justice Minister wants something doesn't mean the Government does.)
...individuals....
What the Fu& is this nations crap all about..... I'm not a nation and neither are you.
The more open we are about the fact of being individuals the less those in command and control over "nations" have over us individuals.
Except that if you want to get into politics in Israel you have to recognize the state of Israel as a Jewish state.
In other words, people who belong to certain religious group are more equal than others.
If the situation was reversed you might well hear it. As it is low cost worker have to come from some where.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/18/wikipedia-editing-zionist-groups
I don't recall Israel saying they wanted to kill all Palestinians. The converse however is not true.
There certainly are extreme factions within the Palestinian community who want to kill all Israelis, just like there are extremists in Israel which want to kill all Palestinians. Wasn't it Rabbi Meir Kahane who called Arabs a "cancer" that had to be cut out of the flesh of Israel? How do his utterances differ from those of the most hateful of the Hamas extremists? The man advocated the abolishment of democracy in Israel in the event that Israeli Arabs became more numerous than Jews to secure the dominance of the Jews because otherwise, by the rules of democracy, the Jews would get outvoted. To me that sounds like a pretty close description of the apartheid state in S-Africa. There are ignorant fanatics on both sides, your attempts to try to convince us that the viewpoints of the most extreme of the Palestinian fanatics are the views of all Palestinians everywhere just serves to highlight how intolerant and ignorant you are yourself.
Actions speak louder than words, and Israel's actions are unambiguously saying they want to displace or kill all Palestinians.
How does that work? Either you can get to the site or you can't. Perhaps the IsItDownForJustMe type sites can be extended: IsItDownForJustOtherIsraelisOrEverythingElseToo.com perhaps?
Ok. I live in a country with 300 million plus inhabitants. Why should I care about a country with 8 million? Likewise why should someone in china give two craps about US tech news...
They don't have any elected officials behind this yet.
The government isn't behind this yet either.
We're one month away from the elections.
Literally everything legislative is on hold, which is why this didn't get any media attention in Israel.
The chances it gets started before 2014 are slim.
The chances it gets the approval of Netanyahu is zero.
He routinely kills such laws proposed by back benchers to limit the damage to Israel's reputation only to things he really cares about such as settlements...
Back to watching CSI re-runs...
Got a link to where "Palestine" in its entirety says "we want to kill all Israelis"?
This sounds more like a certain country just south of Canada.
Note: Access to the web site above may be blocked in your country.
In 2005 such a DNS based filter was rolled out here in Denmark, First toured as a filter against Child pornography, as a none binding aggrement between the danish branch of save the children and the biggest Isp. By design its ofcause a none public liste, later in 2006 allofmp3.com was blocked using the same system, then the pirate bay was added, then sites that sells medicin that requires a prescription, and the lates addion was gamling sites that doesnt pay danish tax. In 2008 the list was leaked ( http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Denmark:_3863_sites_on_censorship_list%2C_Feb_2008 ) , was found to be blocking sites not related to what it was intented to, legitime sites. It always starts out as against Child pornography, and then they will start put more and more into it.
Unless of course you're in the 20% of the Israeli parliament that's Arab or one of the many parties that doesn't care about religion or is anti-religious.
Israel is a Jewish state like America is a Christian country. I.e. they're not really.
You're entirely right, except you missed the part where Israel made Meir Kahane's faction illegal in the country.
Contrast this with Hamas or Fatah where Kill all Jews and destroy Israel is literally in their charter.
It might very well be that the view is extreme, but as long as that is the view of their government, that's the main view you have to worry about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant - It's official Hamas Policy.
The Fatah charter said it until 2010. Now it doesn't specifically name Israel or Jews, but still outlines the struggles against the enemy that must continue, so take that for what it's worth.
misinformation about israel?
man... now i've seen everything.
This is bullshit. Israel defines itself as a Jewish state. It demands that other people recognize it as such.
The US specifically defines itself NOT as a Christian state.
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beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his mind he dreams himself your master
No however they have been caught sending military memos that dictate that for every Israeli citizen killed they will kill ten Palestinian civilians. All Israelis are valid targets as military service is compulsory, the same does not stand for the Palestinians. Since this has already Godwinned, you really would think that any Jew and every Israeli would know what they are doing to Gaza is immoral and very close to that which they most hate. But that's the problem with post traumatic stress on such a large scale the people are still screwed from WW2.
I heard there was a secret court
Knesset used and it pleased the horde
but you don't really care for justice, do ya?
I didn't know the JIDF visited slashdot.
The summary, as well as the article, contains the sentence "Israel is to attempt, again, to pass a bill ...".
Another way to phrase it is: "The bill did *not* pass last time, and may end up not passing again.".
Sounds less sinister, doesn't it? And non-news....
In other words., unlike some other countries (most notably the U.S.) where laws for taking down Websites have passed and have been used, laws outlawing various behaviors that have nothing to do with copying as "copyright circumvention", laws allowing people to be banished from the Internet have passed etc., - none of this crap exists in Israel. So if anything, the Internet freedom situation is *better* in Israel than in most countries.
While jews in general are great peole and to stereotype them as such is is wrong.
The statement that "some Zoinists are becoming worse then Nazi's" may be fairly correct. I know nothing of the ones oversease, but there are a few congressmen and government officials in America who are very fascist in nature.
Of course theres great ones too. Thank god they more or less balance eachother out, however I would like to see more tolerance for everyone in politics. Even the worst of the worst people deserve some compassion in this world.
Technically correct, and completely symbolic and irrelevant.
Israeli policy in the West Bank has typically been to take land by force and demand that the Palestinians do nothing about it. Israeli policy in the Gaza Strip has been to blockade all shipments to the area and to forcibly prevent anyone from leaving, and then periodically "mow the grass" (this is the Israeli term for their periodic indiscriminate bombing of Gaza).
Any reasonably fair way of looking at the conflict in the Levant acknowledges three basic facts:
1. Both Israelis and Palestinians have been absolutely brutal, including attacking and terrorizing civilians.
2. Israel is currently winning by a wide margin. For instance, in the last dust-up, approximately 1200 Gazans died, and approximately 10 Israelis died. Or you can look at who controls what land. Or you can look at the casualties over the last 10 years, which give Israel approximately a 6:1 advantage.
3. Neither Israel nor Hamas nor Fatah operate within the bounds of international law.
I am officially gone from
completely wrong. If Israel wanted to eradicate the palestinians they are more than capable of doing so.
Since they haven't it is obvious that that is not their goal.
You're entirely right, except you missed the part where Israel made Meir Kahane's faction illegal in the country.
Contrast this with Hamas or Fatah where Kill all Jews and destroy Israel is literally in their charter.
It might very well be that the view is extreme, but as long as that is the view of their government, that's the main view you have to worry about.
In 1948 a group of Jewish militia murdered count Folke Bernadotte. This was the same Folke Bernadotte who negotiated with the Nazis for the release of thousands of prisoners form Nazi death camps while most of the rest of the world was refusing to believe these camps existed. Bernadotte then became a central figure in organising a convoy of vehicles to travel from Sweden (running a gauntlet of Allied submarines and naval mines) to collect these people. Clearly these Jewish activists had murdered a man who by rights belonged on that deservedly much admired list of the Righteous among the Nations that the Yad Vashem in Israel keeps. Now if you thought that the state of Israel threw the book at the killers of this man, you would be wrong. They did convict them of murder but then immediately pardoned them. One of the shot callers behind the murder, Nathan Yellin-Mor, was even elected to the Knesset. The moral of this story is that the state of Israel has a long history, going back to it's foundation, of appearing to severely punish extremists like the Kahane faction only to let them off the hook once Israel's leaders feel the dust has settled.
P.S. In case you are wondering, the last time I checked Bernadotte had still not been added to the list of Righteous among the Nations even though his convoy rescued hundreds of Danish Jews from Theresienstadt concentration camp and thereby from certain death. The murder of Bernadotte continues to clog up relations between Sweden and Israel today, over half a century later.
hey did you know there are muslims and arabs in the israeli congres? oh no? yes you are just an ignorant troll....
completely wrong. If Israel wanted to eradicate the palestinians they are more than capable of doing so.
Since they haven't it is obvious that that is not their goal.
There is a difference between being able to do something and getting away with it. If Israel really let loose it's extremists and committed large scale pogroms on the Palestinians even the USA could possibly protect them but practically every other country on earth would embargo Israel and freeze it's assets. They got away with the pogroms in Sabra and Shatila because it happened in Lebanon and the people involved were mostly their Lebanese stooges. A Knesset investigation blamed Ariel Sharon and several army commanders for the Sabra and Shatila pogrom and not doing jack shit to stop it. Predictably Arial Sharon never suffered any consequences.
Israel has to be condemned for trying to pass the law outlawing freedoms. If the law will fail to pass, we shall condemn Israel for condoning the crimes that the bill targets. Israel, what would we do without it?!!
Technically correct, and completely symbolic and irrelevant.
Israeli policy in the West Bank has typically been to take land by force and demand that the Palestinians do nothing about it. Israeli policy in the Gaza Strip has been to blockade all shipments to the area and to forcibly prevent anyone from leaving, and then periodically "mow the grass" (this is the Israeli term for their periodic indiscriminate bombing of Gaza).
Any reasonably fair way of looking at the conflict in the Levant acknowledges three basic facts:
1. Both Israelis and Palestinians have been absolutely brutal, including attacking and terrorizing civilians.
2. Israel is currently winning by a wide margin. For instance, in the last dust-up, approximately 1200 Gazans died, and approximately 10 Israelis died. Or you can look at who controls what land. Or you can look at the casualties over the last 10 years, which give Israel approximately a 6:1 advantage.
3. Neither Israel nor Hamas nor Fatah operate within the bounds of international law.
I know a doctor who has been going to Gaza for years to operate on people injured and crippled in Israeli attacks. According to him, while the Israelis don't block medical shipments, they delay them until medications are time expired and they do things like store delicate medical equipment outside exposed to the elements until it is useless before releasing it or search sealed sterile containers without resealing them properly resulting in equipment arriving full of dust and dirt i.e. useless. If you want to get medical equipment into Gaza you are better off shipping medicine and medical equipment to Egypt and then negotiating with criminals to smuggle it into Gaza via tunnels. At least that way it will get to Gaza in a usable condition. The Israelis will also refuse medical professionals and aid workers entry after making them wait for weeks, without any rational explanation as to why they are being turned back.
> For instance, in the last dust-up, approximately 1200 Gazans died
According to Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cloud_Pillar ) this is actually the number of Palestinians *injured*, not killed:
"Between 158 and 177 Palestinians died in the operation, with between 55 and 120 of them being combatants. An additional 1,200-1,300 Palestinians were injured, and between 350 and 700 Palestinian families displaced."
I learn from all my mistakes, I intend to be a genius at the end of my life.
But isn't copyright infringement a civil matter? The state can prosecute you for gambling, and child pornography, but doesn't an individual or company have to file a claim for copyright infringement? This seems like a ridiculous thing for a national level government to be concerning itself with.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant - It's official Hamas Policy.
The Fatah charter said it until 2010. Now it doesn't specifically name Israel or Jews, but still outlines the struggles against the enemy that must continue, so take that for what it's worth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant - It's official Hamas Policy.
The Fatah charter said it until 2010. Now it doesn't specifically name Israel or Jews, but still outlines the struggles against the enemy that must continue, so take that for what it's worth.
Are you really trying to tell us that just because Hamas says something it must follow that every Palestinian everywhere agrees with it? You are sticking a label on an entire population which is a strong indication of the fact that you are closed minded and ignorant.
And half of the debate in Parliament is whether or not "Jewish" refers to an ethnic group or a religious group.
Right. They're called the Palestinian community.
Apparently you are not aware that the Palestinian identity was manufactured in the late 20th century as a propaganda weapon to assist one Arab terrorist organization, the Palestine Liberation Organization (formerly the Army of Holy War), in seizing the remaining free portions of the Jewish territory of Palestine from its rightful owners, the people who used to be called Palestinians in the early 20th century, the Jews.
The Palestinian identity exists for the sole purpose of inciting Arabs to kill the Jews and take their land.
And wasn't Kahane declared a terrorist, expelled from Israel, and his party outlawed? Yes, he was.
Incidentally, Kahane was killed in one of al-Qaeda's first operations in the United States. They followed it up by bombing the World Trade Center.
Because without a generations-long forced re-education programme that would also threaten democracy, the Arabs would immediately vote to outlaw the Jews and take all their stuff on the grounds that the Arabs are the superior race. It offends the average Arab to see Jews in the middle class, let alone having their own government with an army. For centuries, Jews have been the lowest class of humanity -- in the good times when they were considered human -- and they were routinely raided for their property, when they managed to acquire any, or just for the fun of killing Jews. For any Jew to be better off than any Arab is an offense to all Arabs and is considered a capital crime for which the death penalty is appropriate.
The Arabs who have grown out of thinking that way call themselves "Israelis" and are proud of it.
To me it sounds like you've heard a lot of unjustified comparisons of racially-equal Israel with South Africa, you know nothing about Israel or else you would have immediately seen how stupid this comparison is, you are probably too young to have remembered apartheid South Africa, and you are just repeating what you've heard without thinking.
You are also assigning blame to all of Israel for a proposal by the Israeli equivalent of Lyndon LaRouche that never came close to being enacted.
This is a meaningless statement that makes the reader stupider.
The Arab ignorant fanatics are in power. They run the school systems to ensure that the next generation is also ignorant fanatics. They shoot anyone who speaks for peace on the grounds that they must be collaborators. They are about 80%-95% of the population.
The Israeli ignorant fanatics have never been in power. They are about 2%-5% of the population. Even the right-wing and religious parties reject their views.
So yes, there are fanatics on both sides, but the fanatics on the Arab side are far and away a more serious problem than the fanatics on the Jewish side.
You really don't get it. The Palestinians
That is a lie. First, all of the West Bank was ceded to Israel by the 1994 treaty, ending the dispute over who owns the land. Israel has since ceded the majority of Arab land to the Palestinians. The remainder, circa 80% of the land, is Israeli state property just as it was before Jordanian state property and Ottoman state property.
Some Arab land was taken to build the barrier to stop sniper fire and the movement of armed forces, but there was a clear need. All Israeli settlements since the late 1970s have been on state property or on privately-held Jewish property.
On the other hand, the Arabs are developing on land that Israel has not yet ceded and still technically owns, and Israel is doing nothing about it.
That is a lie. Israel inspects all shipments to Gaza. Items of military value are restricted unless they are allocated for a specific civilian need. The vast majority of aid to Gaza goes through Israel.
That is a lie. Workers travel across the border. Medical patients are routinely taken to Israeli hospitals. And if Israel did forcibly prevent anyone from leaving, it would be fully justified by the state of war.
There is at least one lie there. Israeli bombing is among the least indiscriminate in the world. They have a specific military target for every weapon fired and they are trained to have the most disciplined fire control in the world because there are so many news cameras on them. This is why so few civilians die in each bombing of Gaza.
Were you not aware that the bombings of Gaza were among the least harmful to civilians of any urban bombardments in human history? Maybe you should study military history.
That is a lie. The Israelis have emphatically not been attacking or terrorizing civilians, and incidents of Israeli brutality are few, far between, and punished when they occur.
That is a lie. Israel has lost south Lebanon. Israel has lost Gaza. Israel is losing the West Bank. Israel at best managed a stalemate in its attacks on Hamas and Hezbollah, and its internal security is deteriorating.
Ah, the infamous fake map. You don't really believe that bullshit, do you?
Panel 1: The green areas are all land not privately owned by Jews. Arabs owned about twice as much land area as the Jews and the remaining 70% was owned by the state, the Jewish National Home of Palestine. In brief, the map is lying. The terrorist organization now known as the "Palestinians" did not yet exist; "Palestinian" at this time meant Jewish. That is another lie. To expose a third lie, as of early 1946 Palestine Transjordan was under British mandate and the map should include it to be honest.
Panel 2: The map lies in claiming the green areas as Palestinian land because the proposed division would be between the Jews of Palestine and the Arabs of Palestine. The map lies in claiming a relationship to the first panel because the two panels show different things. The map lies again in implying that the UN partition plan would have meant anything because it was never accepted.
Panel 3: The map lies in claiming t
I also hear they poison the wells and drink their blood...
Give me a break. When will you idiots stop spreading this nonsense?
This sounds a lot like the the IWF blacklist in use in the UK.
Meir Kahane's party was outlawed for its racist platform. The "fanatics" on the Palestinian side are the ruling power in Gaza.
This is a simple, yet accurate and crucial statement.
When people understand that simple fact, they will understand the basics of the situation in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It is not everything, but it is the most basic thing. However, if people fail to understand or to notice this simple fact, there is no chance they would understand anything meaningful about the conflict.
After recognition of this simple fact, it would be clearer to understand the following simple truth: any moment the Palestinian would decide "let there be peace" - there will be peace; Israel strives for peace, in its core, in its culture, and always did - the people and also their leaders - but the problem is that it takes two to make peace, and one to make war.
Google Mufti of Jeruzalem. A man much admired by Fatah and its leadership and one of the architects of the holocaust.
Your turn.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
You're talking about ONE individual who most people reading /. don't even know and was murdered in 1948 for reasons you fail to provide.
Even if I accept your story fully, how does that show anything about Israelies wanting to kill all Palestinians?
I suggest you read about Palestinian Fedayeen, maybe your logic will lead you to think all Palestinians want all Israelies dead (if you're not convinced by Hamas and Fattah official statements)
Yes, let the Law have the all liberty it wants, wherever it live.
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
Not every single issue merits going through a public referendum.
Atta boy, Adolph!
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
If you're not doing anything wrong, what do you have to hide?
I'm surprised that no one brought up blocking Daniel Boyarin's material because he DARE blur the distinctions between Christianity and Judaism.
As a mature adult, I rather enjoy making my own distinctions and discerning whether I should benefit from exposure to sites on the internet. I browse /. at -1.
No thanks, bro, I can handle it.
By that I guess you mean proportional representation including for those refugees banned from returning by the Israeli congress, hmm, what no, well you gotta be a propagandist troll them! Token representation by a few Uncle Toms is meaningless.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
While Stern gang, and other terrorist groups are considered national heroes and got to the top of the new government. Some of the organisations such as haganah became what is today israeli occupation forces and they are proud of their terrorist roots.
Ultra-orthodox groups are very anti-Internet. [nymag.com] This goes way beyond censoring pornography. There are special censored ISPs that only allow a list of 400 approved sites, most of which are religious.
Pornography and gambling are merely red herrings. There is a conversation out there the complexity of which rivals the Talmud itself. It is about a certain first-century Galilean and his talmidim and how that threatened the status quo and why. Since these already HAVE Israeli citizenship, it would be more difficult to exclude (i.e. Gary & Shirley Beresford). Daniel Boyarin has already blown a wormhole between the Jewish and Christian world. The rebbes are soiling themselves in fear for loss of their (information) control.
As for Halacha becoming a source of law in Israel, it already is in family law and personal status. It's a carry over from the Ottoman "millet system". The only foreseeable issues are when Law of Entry and the conversion and grandparent clauses in the Law of Return are abolished. This will make Israel into a true theoethnic state. The polity will consist solely of those born into the condition much like the vast majority of nation-states in the world. It's great for those who qualify. However, for those who are "Jew enough to gas and burn and not enough for the Law of Return", there will be problems. he Internet will make it impossible for people to hide their ancestry for the purposes of assimilation. The tefillin recovered from the bottom of the Hudson River some years ago attest to this.