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Patent Troll Targeting Users of Scanners; Wants $1000/Employee
New submitter earlzdotnet writes "A new patent troll is in town, this time targeting the users of technology, rather than the creators. They appear to hold a process patent for 'scanning a document and then emailing it.' They are targeting small businesses in a variety of locations and usually want somewhere between $900 to $1200 per employee for 'infringement' of their patent. As with most patent trolls, they go by a number of shell companies, but the original company name appears to be Project Paperless LLC. Joel Spolsky said in a tweet that 'This is organized crime, plain and simple...' I tend to agree with him. When will something be done about this legal mafia?"
How does this hold any legal water at all? Isn't the manufacturer of a product liable for patent infringements, not the end user?
Organized crime is what the government does these days. They are not here to protect us. They are here to ensure that the rich and powerful get more rich and more powerful. Any sort of thuggery by which that occurs is fine as far as any arm of the government is concerned.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
(Right, Upper hand corner of this page for me.) /.
"Wondering what your patents might be worth in the current market?"
Wow! I can't resist selling my patents!
Ahem! Well, back to
'Those lousy trolls, I wish they would just go away.'
You're all stupid people to believe that this is the real 'legal mafia'. The government is the real mafia. Until you wake up and realize that more than 80% of your day goes to paying for the elite bastards to live high on the hog you won't ever find freedom.
The government is just the enforcer.
You want to talk to the Don, you'll be walking into a bank like Goldman Sachs or HSBC, not a government building.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Food Concepts Inc
2551 Parmenter St
Middleton, Wi
53562
I fucking double dare you.
Method patents, like software patents, are powerful instruments of extortion. As this bizarre case shows, extortion is most successful against the weak (end users) rather than the strong (xerox, canon, etc).
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this title, whoever without authority makes, uses, offers to sell, or sells any patented invention, within the United States or imports into the United States any patented invention during the term of the patent therefor, infringes the patent.
Ooh, moderator points! Five more idjits go to Minus One Hell!
Delendae sunt RIAA, MPAA et Windoze
There are two types of people in the world; those who believe there are two types of people, and those who don't.
Has anyone patented the process of sueing people for violations of patents? If not someone better get on it quickly. Millions of dollars in settlements are being lost every minute now.
I often have trouble remembering which way is out of bed in the morning.
I don't e-mail people my scans, I upload them to Megaupload and send them the link.
Foolproof.
Patent trolls must play a very careful balancing game weighing potential rewards versus reality of enforcement and the potential consequences that failure would entail. Attempting to sue every employee that has ever used a scanner, for instance, is completely infeasible. Legitimacy of the patent aside, all potential defendants would need do is show up to, en masse, drive the company out of business. Further, revisiting legitimacy, each individual hearing raises the chance of a judge ruling the entire patent null and void. It's bad business sense, regardless of the despicable nature of of patent trolls as a whole -- good business sense would be to target employers, and only thereof, with the goal of settlement at a figure barely worth the notice of said employers.
In the old days you would send a fake purchase order for some low amount to finance and demand to get paid. This is just another scam like that
I guess people need to be outraged about something
As soon as the other mafia is driven out of Congress and Senate!!
It's not the technology that they patented, it's the process. It's precisely as if someone patented driving a car to the grocery, buying food, putting the food in the trunk and driving back home. If you do that, then YOU (not the car manufacturer or the grocery store) infringe on the patent.
That doesn't make it not a shitty patent.
Let us be very helpful to this troll and send him names and addresses of all the congresscritters and judges who might have been in violation of the claimed patent. Some how get him to include the names of these figures whose power/IQ ratio approaches infinity. Then may be some reform might happen.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Public records indicate that each of the partners in the law firm of Hill, Kertscher, & Wharton are either managers, members, or organizers in one or more of the shell companies which in turn appear to have a stake in Project Paperless, LLC.
sysadmins and parents of newborns get the same amount of sleep.
. . . once the patent system as we know it is fixed.
Quit handing out patents like it's candy on Halloween. Barring that, cut the time limits WAAAAY down on technology related
patents to say a few years at most. ( Seriously, tech that is over five years old is really old ) Add some sort of " troll tax " for
any company where the majority source of income is via patent litigation against anyone they think they can get away with.
Once it ceases to be profitable, the entire problem will solve itself overnight.
Does it also cover scanning, adding a signature in photoshop, and then e-mailing? Oh crap, wait! Gotta patent this fast!
So the best way to deal with trolls in the real world is the same as the online world: simply ignore them. If they want to sue you, then make them go through all the expense and trouble of making the case--most of the time they won't even bother. These are basically old timey protection rackets. They're trying to put the minimum amount of effort in to get the biggest return. They might try to make an example of a company or two, but it probably won't be you.
I read the internet for the articles.
When will something be done about this legal mafia?
Nothing will ever be done because every major company is playing the game.
Google, Apple, Microsoft, IBM . . . . . every big company with deep pockets has been hit by patent trolls. So why don't they all get together and use their considerable lobbying power to demand that congress change the law? Why? Because they don't really want the law changed. They want to be able to whack somebody with a patent lawsuit when it suits them.
Bogus patents are the new nuclear weapons. Everyone knows they are bad and destructive, they serve no useful purpose and should be eliminated. But nobody is willing to actually do that because some day they might need a weapon to use against a competitor. That's the new business model. Litigation instead of competition.
I scan documents to pdf's and email the pdf's. If this troll has a problem, they can go bug Xerox as Xerox is the one who converts the document to a pdf.
If they have a problem with me emailing an attachment, they can go bug Microsoft as I use Outlook.
This site posts every single patent story it can because they know youll all fly off the handle and post like crazy to increase page hits.
Hell most of these patent stories are just legitiment people protecting their assests but all you have to do is say the word patent and people show up in waves without reading the story to start bitching about how patent laws destroy america and blah blah blah. You all just buy into this because its the current trend in internet nerd bitching.
Unless you are a patent attorney, work in the patent office that has to do with the actual process or some other real world involvement and personal knowledge of patents you dont know squat but all act like they are somehow goverment and state approved patent officers that know everything. Hint: just because it sounds good to you doesnt mean its right.
Has the EFF said anything about this? Isn't this the kind of case they'd be interested in defending?
that the companies that they are suing are scanning to email?
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
Just 100 dollars? :D
I'll just scan the story and send out an email.
Wait...what?
I love the naive assumption that what we have is the worst possible outcome, and by choosing people at random we'll automatically arrive at a different result.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
The patents were filed beginning in 1997. Does anyone know if scanners from 1996 were able to scan in a document, launch an e-mail application, and attach said document to the e-mail? A quick Google Groups search did uncover a "photo scanning service" that promised to scan your photo and send it to you via e-mail. https://groups.google.com/group/nyc.singles/browse_thread/thread/6b8e902ec9996435/a1a550f3f5398a27?hl=en&q=scan+attach+to+e-mail#a1a550f3f5398a27
Also, for reference (and since people might not read the article), here are links to the patents in question:
http://www.google.com/patents/US6185590
http://www.google.com/patents/US6771381
http://www.google.com/patents/US7477410
http://www.google.com/patents/US7986426
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
USA has their corporate nobles who defend the general population against the foreigners. The nobles get tax from the state for this role. Legal threats and a free flow of new laws make this possible. USA skipped the last dark ages, so now they'll have to live through it. Sorry about that. They should do something about this situation before it gets out of hand. Because now they're rich, when China takes over the world you'll be poor. This means thinks will get a lot worse for most of Americans in the years to come if they are unable to change. The word on the street is that corporations are moving their headquarters as well as manufacturing to the East.
There's really nothing more to be said.
Our company got one of these ridiculous letters about 2 months ago. I took great pleasure in immediately scanning it into an email to a colleague so we could laugh about it.
When will something be done about this legal mafia?
Nothing will ever be done because every major company is playing the game.
Google, Apple, Microsoft, IBM . . . . . every big company with deep pockets has been hit by patent trolls. So why don't they all get together and use their considerable lobbying power to demand that congress change the law? Why? Because they don't really want the law changed. They want to be able to whack somebody with a patent lawsuit when it suits them.
Bogus patents are the new nuclear weapons. Everyone knows they are bad and destructive, they serve no useful purpose and should be eliminated. But nobody is willing to actually do that because some day they might need a weapon to use against a competitor. That's the new business model. Litigation instead of competition.
Also, all these big companies have invested billions into their patent chests. If they urged patent reform, they could well wipe out the value of these chests, which could potentially wipe out the company, as these patents are a large part of their corporate worth. I'm sure it is true for others as well, but I remember it being mentioned on Slashdot a while ago that in the case of Apple they actually spend more per year on acquiring and protecting their patents than on R&D.
Or the naive assumption that we have any choice in who we vote for.
Just 100 dollars? :D
He's European. They use the '.' where we Americans would use a ','.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
It seems that the perps in this scenario are using standard boilerplate forms to threaten lawsuits. Could some astute lawyer (IANAL) produce a standard boilerplate response form and offer it for a nominal fee? I think there is precedent for that in regards to a music copyright violation lawsuit-mill.
So $100, to the thousandth. Got it. Wrong is wrong, I don't care where he is from.
So $100, to the thousandth. Got it. Wrong is wrong, I don't care where he is from.
No.
So $100. to the thousandth, Got it, Wrong is wrong. I don't care where he is from,
we don't have employees do that there 3rd party contractors
not very metric of them ;)
When the government cares more about its citizens than patent holders. AKA when hell freezes over. If you reduce the power of the patent you not only stop these relatively small players but also degrade the worth of everyone's patents. Which hurts the rich and powerful.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
What the patent office is a petition system like the White House has. Any patent getting more than 1000 signatures would be reviewed.
When people stop paying. The only reason these "businesses" can remain in "business" is because someone is paying.
I decided that everybody can use it against troll patenters.
FTA:
In the end, Hill and his fellow lawyers at his small Atlanta firm, Hill, Kertscher and Wharton, didn’t have a lot of fight in them. Two weeks after he filed the third-party complaint, Project Paperless dropped its lawsuit. No settlement, no deal—they just went away. (As a result, the scanner makers never actually came to court.)
That can't be where it ends. Where's the countersuit for legal fees? Compensation for the money required to do the prior-art search? There's protection (albeit not enough) from frivolous and vindictive (perhaps even defamatory, in this case) lawsuits.
6th Street Radio @ddombrowsky
Of course they don't, corporations pass them.
the prior art is that the device in their patent had to exist before their patent.
Fax modem? In the process of scanning-to-e-mail, you ultimately have a scanner at one end, a communications network, and a device for receiving and displaying scanned images. A fax machine is a scanner, the phone system is a communications network, and a computer with a fax modem can receive and display faxes. I took the lowest patent number (US6185590) and the filing date on that is October 15, 1997. I remember owning a Mac with a fax modem in the fourth quarter of 1995.
...is by getting bar associations to step up to the plate; or if they refuse (and as a last resort), set-up a separate organization that has the power to get disbarred on a national level regardless of the bar assocations' positions.
The latter is a dangerous road, but something has to budge. After all, the problem isn't the patent system--it'll never be perfect--but a subset of attorneys taking advantage of their knowledge and position in our legal system. This is exactly the same as a doctor fishing for cooperative "patients" and/or fileing questionable or out-right false claims to insurance companies, and hoping things pan out.
Everyone knows they are bad and destructive, they serve no useful purpose and should be eliminated.
Um, nuclear weapons have arguably saved humanity from a third world war. Patents have accomplished what, again?
They should target MAFIAA and all of their cronies:
1) They scan a document (html page)
2) They send email with screenshot of infringing content of the page (a guess)
Nuclear weapons produce mutually-assured destruction, guaranteeing that the major powers will never use them.
Patents, not so, since patent litigation can result in cartel arrangements, rather than mutual destruction, and patents remain a supremely effective means of preventing small businesses from ever becoming large ones (which is the primary goal).
So, both nuclear weapons and patents serve a useful purpose....one is the assurance that a nuclear war will not occur, and the other is the protection of well-established businesses from upstarts.
Certainly we do, it's just that very few people take seriously the candidates who haven't completely sold their soul in order to afford a massive media blitz. It's really a shame since according to recent political polls the largest single political group among US voters self-identifies as independent: 40% versus 30% democrat, 27% republican, and 3% for all other parties. Clearly there's substantial disillusionment with party politics, what we need is for someone to figure out how to woo voters while bypassing the massively expensive media conglomerates. A tall order, but both the candidates and voters are there.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
What if we the people pool our resources, find patents with prior art, and submit requests for reexamination?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reexamination
Hit the worst offenders first, then from that imbalance let them start a patent war -- use their nuclear weapons -- among themselves until the whole system unravels. Might that be possible?
Or the naive assumtion that once in office one will act differently than the other. After all, you're the product that they're selling out to their real benefactors.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
Their earliest patent filing from the document at the embedded link is 1997, but Visioneer came out w/ the PaperMax in 1994 and it was advertised to do this. They defaulted to a proprietary format, but could also be output to a PDF and attached to an email. I got my 1st Visioneer about 1996 or so.
As Xerox bought out Visioneer a few years ago, I assume they got any patents and licensing.
I wonder if this is why the trolls are going after the users instead of the manufactures. Minolta, HP, and the others selling equipment to do this are probably operating under Xerox licenses and there's nothing to go after there.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/culture/articles/941128/archive_013727_3.htm
When the flames are on the capital. You know the only time we do anything.
Easiest way to get rid of a patent troll (AKA the pushing their luck legal mafia).
#1. Locate the bridge (house, office, courthouse, hobbit hole) that the troll is hiding under(in) while attempting to collect his BS tolls.
#2. Gather like minded folks from the village (internet).
#3. Lead the raid to defeat with the NAMED troll knowing full well that the loot-drops are crap however the infamy of the raid will be remembered forever.
#4. Remember after defeating NAMED troll to take screenshots and to burn the pieces... they regenerate and multiply!
#5. Hope that the next hapless troll thinking about this course of action to make money will think about chasing tow trucks and ambulances.
Um, nuclear weapons have arguably saved humanity from a third world war. Patents have accomplished what, again?
Patents have saved large corporations from dieing due to innovations and improvements by small companies that could gain significant market traction.
The difference with the nukes is that the patents are actively used day in day out to smash anyone with a bright idea from bringing it to market.
It's even worse than that; those corporations you mentioned are buying up patent portfolios IN CONJUNCTION WITH patent mega-trolls like Intellectual Ventures. They are the mafia bosses of this whole syndicate, and they don't want anyone else on their turf.
Thank you. That's the precedent I was thinking of. From TFA, it looks like BlueWave said something like that, probably put in more polite terms. Anyway, the troll did as requested :-)
Why is this so hard? If they cover scanning and emailing documents then surely the patents are obviously invalid due to prior art:
Could you do this before the first patent was filed (Oct 15, 1997)? Yes of course you bloody could, relatively affordable scanners have existed since the early 90s and anyone on a network would have used some kind of networked method to copy their scanned images to other computers.
Just 100 dollars? :D
He's European. They use the '.' where we Americans would use a ','.
It actually varies across Europe (France uses a space IIRC), but it is true that is one of those used.
No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
'Who will rid me of these meddlesome trolls?'
Most businesses have now implemented stupid email "retention" policies to avoid law suits that require all email to be deleted after an insanely short time (my company has gone from 6 months to 1 month).
If only the kept that old email, and could show just ONE scanned document being emailed prior to the patent, they'd have prior art.
This is pure layman's WTFishness coming here, no legal experience whatsoever, but I can't quite understand how someone could feel they have a case here. How can one patent the actual "act" of doing something? At my place of business right now, we have a Xerox Workcentre 7775. We paid money for the purchase, the service contract with a local copier company for initial training, and now maintenance & supplies. We have many staff members entered into the simple one-touch menu, where it take their document, scans it, and e-mails a PDF attachment.
Are these people claiming they own a patent on us using a product we own, that was designed with this specific feature?
A very similar case was presented in the latest issue of Wired magazine: The Patent Problem
One possible solution to this problem might be a class action suit against the patent troll on behalf of all users of scanners who send scanned images as email attachments. The troll must be causing them some quantifiable loss through his negligent abuse of the patent system. Even if it's only $1,000 / class member, the damages could be $1 million per thousand class members. That ought to motivate some enterprising attorney.
One of my clients received one of these letters. It's a pretty laughable attempt at extortion. Because:
1. You can't tell if the extortionist is related in any way to the patent holder.
2. They tell you to do your own investigation, provide some pointers, and provide bank routing money for your EFT.
3. They haven't done their jurisdiction homework (RightHaven got hammered for this).
and these are just some of the procedural problems. The prior art issues don't even come into play. I don't think their letter even supports suing for a declaratory judgment against anyone. If they sent me one of these then I'd just throw it away without giving it further consideration. On the other hand, as a patent lawyer and litigator I can afford a far riskier strategy than most.
I think the extortionists waited until the patent reexamination/review process got significantly more extensive before they started their campaign. The America Invents Act raised the fee for ex-parte reexamination to $17,750 and for inter-partes review to $27,200.
I am a lawyer, but not yours. Anything I tell you might be a total lie intended to benefit my clients at your expense.
They know how to blow up your head!
The US government has established the legal value of a life to be between $200K and $250K. At some point, fairly quickly, the damage done by trolling lawyers exceeds their total value as individuals. Just saying another solution exists. Not advocating it. Just observing the reality.
I don't understand the bit about N different randomly-named companies sending out demands for payment - which one of them really owns it? Presumably not more than one at a time? If there's some question about it, presumably the first thing you'd do in a court action would be to subpoena the plaintiff and all their records to get them to demonstrate that they were really the current and One True Owner, and while you're at it get them to specify exactly what they're claiming.
Meanwhile, this chain of spinoffs nonsense sounds like it's a crude attempt at some of the shell games in Charlie Stross's Accelerando...
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Probably it was the late 80s? Anyway, scanner-OCR things were about $10,000, and I worked for a large bureaucratic company with a large bureaucratic purchasing department, and my department wanted to buy one for our lab. After wrangling the usual bureaucratic issues about capital vs. expense budgets, when we eventually to buy it, our purchasing department considered this to be a computer system, and tried to get the vendor to sign the same kind of contract we'd have for a multi-million dollar mainframe from IBM, except that IBM had as many lawyers as we did so they'd have thrown out most of the stupid stuff. It wasn't just the issue of workmen's comp insurance that bothered them (look, we'll ship it to you by UPS, so we won't be suing you if our guy trips in the mailroom.) It was the patent indemnification that killed the deal - the vendor was a small business and wasn't going to be able to insure against any possible lawsuits (even though they didn't expect there to be any of them.)
Unfortunately for the prior art claims with the current idiots, this thing didn't trigger the magic "business method for doing [something standard] over the Internetz!" patent approach; it probably did 9600 baud RS232 or something.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I ought to take out a patent on patent trolling and then sue these bastards for all they're worth.