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Apple Loses Claim For False Advertising Regarding Amazon "App Store"

An anonymous reader writes a court has dismissed Apple's allegations that Amazon's use of the "app store" phrase constituted false advertising. "Apple's efforts to protect its intellectual property sometimes result in lawsuits that leave even the most ardent of Apple fans scratching their heads. One such suit was Apple's March 2011 lawsuit against Amazon over the retailer's use of the phrase 'app store' as used in its Amazon Appstore for Android. "

93 of 138 comments (clear)

  1. Re:i is for idiot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Apple is for Asshole

  2. Consequences by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why are there no severe consequences for bringing these kinds of ridiculous lawsuits? Shouldn't Amazon at least get all their legal fees paid?

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    1. Re:Consequences by macs4all · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why are there no severe consequences for bringing these kinds of ridiculous lawsuits? Shouldn't Amazon at least get all their legal fees paid?

      IF it were actually Frivolous, that might be possible.

      However, Apple did have an "App Store" (by that name) before anyone else. The name was "catchy" enough to resonate with Consumers. IANAL, and I haven't read the decision, but I personally believe that the phrase "App Store" should have been Trade Mark-able, as it was not being used by anyone before Apple.

    2. Re:Consequences by Skapare · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't know WHY our legal system is so faulty, but it is. NO ONE (and ONE includes any business) should be subjected to costs because someone else just happens to disagree. If someone sues YOU and in order to defend yourself, you need to hire attorney(s) at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars (which for some people can wipe them out, financially), wouldn't you want the other party to cover your costs? I most certainly would. Maybe for Amazon the multi-million dollar cost of this suit is a minor amount. But for many people, even just a ten thousand dollar lawsuit can be most of what they have.

      This is one reason lots of people don't even show up in court when sued. This is one reason the courts end up with so many bad judgments because they always favor the party that showed up.

      This is just wrong because it is very unfair.

      But even having the losing party pay doesn't always work, and it doesn't do a very good job of making things fair.

      I propose the following. Create a litigation finance pool that is covered through corporate taxes (without any loopholes). Every corporation or other business pays into this pool. When they are involved in litigation, it gets covered by this pool. Yes, I know this is so open for abuses, so it most certainly needs to be very strictly monitored. The winner gets their legal costs covered from the pool. The loser does not.

      The above applies to all cases involving a business on either side. A separate pool funded through a wider tax base is for people to people cases. This is not a perfect solution. But what we have now is certainly not perfect, either, and is actually worse.

      Frivolous lawsuits need to result in jail time.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    3. Re:Consequences by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Just simply adopting the loser pays all costs scenario the rest of the world uses would do just fine too.

      Also abolishing summary judgements for no shows would be a start too. Just because someone doesn't show up doesn't mean automatically that the opposing argument isn't complete bullshit.

    4. Re:Consequences by sarysa · · Score: 1

      I don't think they can win this because ____ store has a special place in the English language (and likely trademark law) as a generic entity. Market (formerly used by Android) does as well, by the way. General store, camera store, cell phone store, shoe store, 99 cent store, clothing store, grocery store, the list goes on. App is a generic term for application that did not originate with Apple. Any generic term with "store" placed in front of it is also generic.

      Now, Sony Store, Microsoft Store, Apple App Store, Amazon Appstore, Android Market, etc are all trademarkable because the non-generic company names have been affixed to the label.

      --
      Charisma is the measure of someone's ability to lie with a straight face.
    5. Re:Consequences by __aaqvdr516 · · Score: 1

      http://www.michaelrobertson.com/archive.php?minute_id=340

      I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not but from the tone of your other posts in this tread I'm thinking you're not. Apple attempted to rewrite computer history with this lawsuit and they were correctly dismissed. They should be hit with frivolous lawsuit fees.

    6. Re:Consequences by SourceFrog · · Score: 2

      I propose the following. Create a litigation finance pool that is covered through corporate taxes ... When they are involved in litigation, it gets covered by this pool

      Wow, a million lawyers just sprung erections and drooled all over themselves.

      This really won't work well, as it creates an immediate moral hazard ... lawyers will conintually be trying to dip in and keep themselves busy earning a living off someone else's dime. The costs of the administration of such a fund would be huge and the true costs of litigation would be rendered opaque due to the complexity, actual costs will no longer even be clear.

      I'm not sure what to offer as an alternative solution but I think we could come up with better/smarter solutions if we tried.

      --
      My other UID is three digits.
    7. Re:Consequences by Mathness · · Score: 1

      It can be made a whole lot simpler. If you sue, you pay for the defence as well (at a similar rate) if the defendant can not afford it.

      --
      Carbon based humanoid in training.
    8. Re:Consequences by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      I don't think they can win this because ____ store has a special place in the English language (and likely trademark law) as a generic entity.

      And yet there are hundreds of active trademarks containing the word "store" (and all of them also the disclaimer 'NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "STORE" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN').

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    9. Re:Consequences by JosKarith · · Score: 2

      A simpler solution - shoot all the lawyers.

      --
      'Don't worry' said the trees when they saw the axe coming, 'The handle is one of us.'
    10. Re:Consequences by sarysa · · Score: 1, Troll

      I guess tl;dr applies to posts that are longer than one sentence.

      --
      Charisma is the measure of someone's ability to lie with a straight face.
    11. Re:Consequences by DrEldarion · · Score: 1

      App Store should not be trademarkable, unless you also believe that "Shoe Store", "Grocery Store", "Hardware Store", etc. also should be. It's a store where you buy apps. Of course it's going to be called an app store.

    12. Re:Consequences by Nyder · · Score: 2

      I don't know WHY our legal system is so faulty, but it is. NO ONE (and ONE includes any business) should be subjected to costs because someone else just happens to disagree. If someone sues YOU and in order to defend yourself, you need to hire attorney(s) at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars (which for some people can wipe them out, financially), wouldn't you want the other party to cover your costs?

      Actually, I would think it should be a cause for a mistrial since the rich person is using unfair tactics against you. For example, lets say I was to be taken to court by one of the AA's. There is no way I could get a fair trial because I do NOT have the money they do. They can keep throwing money at the trial, delaying it, appealing it, etc way beyond what I, or any normal person could do. That isn't right. That is using money to buy the outcome you want.

      --
      Be seeing you...
    13. Re:Consequences by emho24 · · Score: 1

      Now if they wanted to trademark the full phrase "Apple App Store" or "The Apple App Store", more power to them. Otherwise too bad.

      --
      You must gather your party before venturing forth.
    14. Re:Consequences by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      I don't know WHY our legal system is so faulty, but it is. NO ONE (and ONE includes any business) should be subjected to costs because someone else just happens to disagree. If someone sues YOU and in order to defend yourself, you need to hire attorney(s) at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars (which for some people can wipe them out, financially), wouldn't you want the other party to cover your costs?

      Actually, I would think it should be a cause for a mistrial since the rich person is using unfair tactics against you. For example, lets say I was to be taken to court by one of the AA's. There is no way I could get a fair trial because I do NOT have the money they do. They can keep throwing money at the trial, delaying it, appealing it, etc way beyond what I, or any normal person could do. That isn't right. That is using money to buy the outcome you want.

      Ahh, so you're saying that you should be allowed to do anything to anyone richer than you without legal consequences, because any legal action would be unfair against you. Unless your action made you richer than the other of course.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    15. Re:Consequences by sarysa · · Score: 1

      Not troll. I addressed this person's point in the rest of my post. I even said stuff like "Sony Store", "Apple App Store" (in full), etc was trademarkable. But you can't trademark something like "celery store" against someone else who only sells celery. Hell, someone could sell only apples and call it an "Apple Store", though Apple would surely make their life a living hell with lawsuits. (they'd lose if it drew to a conclusion, but Apple would most likely successfully scare the apple vendor)

      --
      Charisma is the measure of someone's ability to lie with a straight face.
    16. Re:Consequences by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      shoestore.com (logo) - live

      THE SHOE STORE - ABANDONED

      GROCERY STORES - ABANDONED

      THE HARDWARE STORE (logo) - live

      All of them have at least been tried to be trademarked. As logos at least they worked.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    17. Re:Consequences by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      You'll pardon me as I use your name to discount your entire post.

      --
      Good-bye
    18. Re:Consequences by TrancePhreak · · Score: 1

      Apple was very late to the game. I remember devices coming with Handango. I think my Moto RZR had it as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_digital_distribution_platforms_for_mobile_devices

      --

      -]Phreak Out[-
    19. Re:Consequences by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, this system still doesn't even slightly touch upon the 'big' problem with the legal system... whoever has the most money wins.

      So therefore, if you're some random schlub against a company, you're not only absolutely guaranteed to lose, but you have to pay for all of the legal costs of a dozen high-priced lawyers.

      Honestly, if I found myself in that situation, even if I was absolutely 100% correct, I still wouldn't show up in court, just to have my life trashed for several months before becoming poor and having 98% of my wages garnished for the rest of my natural life. I'd send a letter to the courts, preferably showing up several days before I'm due to show up, explaining exactly the above, and then just live on the run from the law. Given the choice between running from the law and the absolute certainty that my life is ruined immediatly if I show up, I'll go with the one where I might actually get a bit more time before my life is ruined.

      Exactly. So-called "Loser Pays" (known in legal circles as "The Englsh Rule"), as distinguished from "Pay Your Own Costs" (a/k/a "The American Rule"), pretty much has all the disadvantages of the American Rule, with the added "benefit" (that is, to the well-heeled litigant) that if they simply wear down the less well-endowed party, they not only win a Judgment, but also AUTOMATICALLY win their costs.

      At least with the American Rule, the litigant who is "worn down" by the other side can simply call it quits, and not be DOUBLY "punished" for simply trying.

      Before everybody gets their panties in a bunch, it is VERY important to keep in mind that there are always exceptions made for litigants who file COMPLETELY frivolous litigation. In those cases, judges can (and do) charge the costs to the frivolous litigant, and can even impose Sanctions on the Party (and/or their counsel), as well. But always remember: Just because a lawsuit is basically "hopeless", doesn't mean it is frivolous and vexatious litigation.

    20. Re:Consequences by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Just simply adopting the loser pays all costs scenario the rest of the world uses would do just fine too.

      Also abolishing summary judgements for no shows would be a start too. Just because someone doesn't show up doesn't mean automatically that the opposing argument isn't complete bullshit.

      You mean "Default Judgments". And those are fairly easy to have "set aside" if you can show you didn't receive actual (as opposed to "Constructive") Notice. Also, if the "Notice" was by "Publication", Courts will almost always give you a "do-over" if you then later "show up".

      However, if you do away with Default Judgments, no one would even bother to Answer a Civil Complaint against them. Why should they?

    21. Re:Consequences by macs4all · · Score: 1

      http://www.michaelrobertson.com/archive.php?minute_id=340

      I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not but from the tone of your other posts in this tread I'm thinking you're not. Apple attempted to rewrite computer history with this lawsuit and they were correctly dismissed. They should be hit with frivolous lawsuit fees.

      What Computer History would that be? Point out another venture called an "App Store" (specifically) before Apple.

    22. Re:Consequences by macs4all · · Score: 1

      However, Apple did have an "App Store" (by that name) before anyone else.

      No, not even close. The domain theappstore.com was registered by an Australian company fully a year before Apple's App Store opened, and it's safe to say that at least a couple of companies had used the term prior to that. The iOS App Store resonated with consumers because it provided additional functionality for a really popular piece of hardware, not because the name was somehow special.

      I personally believe that the phrase "App Store" should have been Trade Mark-able

      Even if you were correct about Apple being the first user of the mark, it should not have been possible to trademark it. The words "App Store" are descriptive. It would be like trademarking the word "Book Store" because you were the first store that sold only books. A store that sells apps is an app store. Period.

      If you allow a trademark to exist on what is basically the only term (other than the longer-form synonym, "application store") that adequately describes a whole category of stores, you would effectively be preventing other stores that sell apps (on any platform) from existing usefully, because no one would be able to describe them without violating that trademark.

      A Domain Name is not a Trademark. That's a straw man.

      The PHRASE "App Store" SHOULD be Trade-Mark-able; partially because "App" is NOT a WORD. This in no way impedes trade (at least no more than any trademark does); because calling another venture an "Application Store" IS Generic; but "App Store" is not. If you can show me a Corporate Entity (or in fact ANY business) with the SPECIFIC Name "App Store" in existence before Apple's, then I'm listening. Otherwise, STFU.

    23. Re:Consequences by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Cool, I wander who holds the trademarks on Grocery Store, Clothing Store, and Shoe Store. Oh wait, nobody cause that is ridiculous.

      If the "word" "App" was in fact a word, you might have a point. But it isn't, so you don't.

    24. Re:Consequences by macs4all · · Score: 1

      You'll pardon me as I use your name to discount your entire post.

      Many idiots do. It's called an ad Hominem attack, and is the last refuge of the debater with no true points to argue.

    25. Re:Consequences by Algae_94 · · Score: 1

      And I should be able to trademark the term "Clothing Store" for my store that sells clothing.

      App is a reasonable abbreviation for application, a standard product name. An "App store" sells apps.

    26. Re:Consequences by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Your name exposes a certain bias, that when weighted with your comments lends doubt to your objectivity, which i expressed quite eloquently above. It is ironic that you accuse me of ad-hominem attack with an ad-hominem.

      Sent from my mac mini

      --
      Good-bye
    27. Re:Consequences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      App is, however, an abbreviation of a generic word, and an abbreviation that was in use long before the App Store existed. Likewise, a store called "PC Store" can't be trademarked because even though PC isn't a word either, it's still an abbreviation of a common term.

      Even the article points out:

      Jobs repeatedly made reference to "app stores" that existed outside of Apple's iTunes App Store.

      "So there will be at least four app stores on Android, which customers must search among to find the app they want and developers will need to work with to distribute their apps and get paid. This is going to be a mess for both users and developers. Contrast this with Apple’s integrated App Store, which offers users the easiest-to-use largest app store in the world, preloaded on every iPhone."

      Even though Android's app store was called Android Market, and is currently called Google Play, the term is so generic that even Steve Jobs couldn't stop himself from referring to them as an app store.

    28. Re:Consequences by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      How about not abolishing completely? Many Civil Complaints are completely frivolous (at least where I live). Heck our neighbour sued us because we refused to pay for half of a fence. He filed the wrong paperwork, built the wrong fence, and for the wrong reasons. We didn't even say anything in court. We just turned up and won. The judge too one look at a picture of the fence and decided we shouldn't have to pay for the neighbours desire to build a huge mansion in an otherwise very ordinary street.

      Funny part is we offered him 1/5th of the cost as settlement beforehand (which was the half the cost of putting in the same chicken wire fence we had), and he left with nothing. Yet if we hadn't shown up he would likely have won.

    29. Re:Consequences by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Not troll.

      Quit trolling, and

      GET
      OFF
      THE LAWN
       

    30. Re:Consequences by macs4all · · Score: 1

      And I should be able to trademark the term "Clothing Store" for my store that sells clothing. App is a reasonable abbreviation for application, a standard product name. An "App store" sells apps.

      Not so fast there, buddy!

      Apparently, the Federal Circuits are DEEPLY divided on this particular subject.

      I smell a SCOTUS case coming in 3... 2... 1..

    31. Re:Consequences by Nyder · · Score: 1

      I don't know WHY our legal system is so faulty, but it is. NO ONE (and ONE includes any business) should be subjected to costs because someone else just happens to disagree. If someone sues YOU and in order to defend yourself, you need to hire attorney(s) at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars (which for some people can wipe them out, financially), wouldn't you want the other party to cover your costs?

      Actually, I would think it should be a cause for a mistrial since the rich person is using unfair tactics against you. For example, lets say I was to be taken to court by one of the AA's. There is no way I could get a fair trial because I do NOT have the money they do. They can keep throwing money at the trial, delaying it, appealing it, etc way beyond what I, or any normal person could do. That isn't right. That is using money to buy the outcome you want.

      Ahh, so you're saying that you should be allowed to do anything to anyone richer than you without legal consequences, because any legal action would be unfair against you. Unless your action made you richer than the other of course.

      No, what i am saying is the rich corporations are unfairly using the courts high cost to win cases they shouldn't be winning, and because they know they can win by stretching out the cost, this is how they choose to fight in court. The big corporations will keep court cases going if they don't like the judgement, that's been in the news left and right. When they lose, they appeal it and drag it out.

      It's an unfair advantage because they can buy the decisions they want, just by spending more money then the other person.

      --
      Be seeing you...
    32. Re:Consequences by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Your name exposes a certain bias, that when weighted with your comments lends doubt to your objectivity, which i expressed quite eloquently above. It is ironic that you accuse me of ad-hominem attack with an ad-hominem. Sent from my mac mini

      I freely admit to bias; but facts is facts. If you can refute my facts, then by all means do so. But otherwise, your ad Hominem attack actually makes you, not me, appear to hold the weaker position, and would be losing this debate.

      Also, the basic premise of your comment, above, is fatally flawed, to wit: I did not attack you directly; hence, by definition, not an "ad Hominem" (which my Latin-language-taught brain cells translate to "to (about) the person"); rather, I attacked an oblique Class (Idiots). Then I stated that these hypothetical "Idiots" would use ad Hominem attacks in the absence of compelling facts and argument.

      It seems that it is you with the "Transference" problem. ...And, apparently, an utter lack of cogent facts and argument as well.

      Otherwise, why wouldn't you just "show me" how wrong I was? I'll wait...

    33. Re:Consequences by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      No I'm whining that the merits of the case were obvious with only one party showed up to court. The winning party didn't say anything yet had to take a day off work for these proceedings.

      Automatically awarding a case to the only party that shows up doesn't make sense in a frivolous lawsuit. The clerk at the filing desk could have told the guy that he wouldn't win.

  3. Re:C is for consumer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Apple's way or the highway

  4. Re:C is for consumer by Tough+Love · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes. Buy Amazon. It's called "going long".

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  5. So is 'App Store' safe to use now? by detain · · Score: 1

    So with this ruling does it mean its safe for the rest of us to use App Store or will we still have to worry about going up against Apple in court?

    --
    http://interserver.net/
    1. Re:So is 'App Store' safe to use now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So with this ruling does it mean its safe for the rest of us to use App Store or will we still have to worry about going up against Apple in court?

      Situation unchanged. They still won't have a leg to stand on but they'll still be able to sure anyway and it'll still cost you a fortune.

    2. Re:So is 'App Store' safe to use now? by moronoxyd · · Score: 2

      So with this ruling does it mean its safe for the rest of us to use App Store or will we still have to worry about going up against Apple in court?

      Not yet.

      So far only the claim that Amazon was doing false advertisment was thrown out of court.
      The claim that Amazon infringes the trademark is still to be decided.

    3. Re:So is 'App Store' safe to use now? by Skapare · · Score: 1

      Nothing has changed with regard to them being able to sue you. What has changed is that you now have a better body of case law to draw on. You better have that attorney ready.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  6. Re:C is for consumer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's already started, for the past year they've done nothing but ride the high of their earlier success. Resorting to this kind of tactics instead of better marketing and improving relationships with other companies, tells us one more thing. They have nothing in the works.

  7. Re:i is for idiot. by rgbrenner · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You're thinking of Apple:
    http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/mp3s/apples-future-wont-be-brought-to-you-by-the-letter-i-20100312-q27r.html

    Hey have you ever seen a "leaf"? Apple just trademarked it:
    http://www.webpronews.com/apples-trademark-applications-are-getting-kind-of-ridiculous-2012-12

    I would have never thought of that. Guess that's why Apple's #1

  8. Re:C is for consumer by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 4, Funny

    Anyone with an apple device is complicit in these actions.

    And anyone who uses ReiserFS is an accessory to murder!

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  9. Re:C is for consumer by node+3 · · Score: 1

    If people are complicit in the actions of the corporations they buy from, then most people are guilty of far worse offenses than losing a lawsuit.

    But I do need to question your logic to begin with. If you buy something from me, then I go commit a crime, you are guilty? Doesn't it make more sense to lay the blame at the people who are actually in charge of the entity involved, and the actual actors in the "offense" under discussion?

  10. Let's face it ... by thomst · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Under Steve Jobs, Apple always was litigious. Tim Cook is just continuing the same strategy - and, long-term, that's pretty much the problem Apple faces.

    What I mean by that is that Jobs, whatever you might think of him as a person, was clearly a visionary. He envisioned products for needs that people didn't even know they had, until Apple produced them - and thereby created markets that hadn't previously existed. The problem Apple faces is that Cook is not Jobs. Not even, not by a long stretch. Jobs was a conceptual thinker and a design maven. Cook is a bean counter. His vision is strictly limited to cost control and supply-line dynamics.

    So Apple now faces the same problem it had when its Board of Directors kicked Jobs to the curb in the late 1980's, and handed control of the company over to a series of bean-counting "business leaders", instead: a complete lack of product vision on the part of management led to technological stagnation and chronic laurel-resting on the part of the company. Sure, they retained their profit margins ... but their market share and total sales first stagnated, then started dwindling away. By the time the Board hired egomaniac Gilbert Amelio to run the company and HE hired Ellen Hancock (the woman who previously had single-handedly destroyed IBM's PC software division) as Apple's CTO, the best minds at Apple were diving overboard in lemming-like droves.

    And it sure looks like that same cycle of stagnation and decline is facing the latter-day Apple Corp. Sure, the i-Stuff is selling really well now - but there are NO new breakthrough products on Apple's horizon, and my bet is that there aren't going to be. Steve Jobs was pretty much the avatar of the modern Key Man Problem, and, in order to replace him, Apple's Board first would have to FIND the next Jobs, and then would have to push Tim Cook aside and entrust the company to Jobs II. My bet is that that just ain't gonna happen. Ever.

    So Apple's riding high on a mountain of cash right now, and the i-Stuff is deluging its coffers with more money every quarter - but the end of that ride is in sight, and it won't be much more than a decade before litigation is ALL the company has left - because Steve Jobs, the technological Elvis, has left the buidling for good.

    --
    Check out my novel.
    1. Re:Let's face it ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Nowadays I think of Apple as a jewelry store. People are still buying their higher-priced products because they shine really well but don't offer much innovation anymore.

    2. Re:Let's face it ... by Swampash · · Score: 1

      Compare the revenues received by the estate of Elvis Presley in 2012 with those of any year while he was alive.

      In other words, STFU.

    3. Re:Let's face it ... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Compare the revenues received by the estate of Elvis Presley in 2012 with those of any year while he was alive.

      The difference is that a performer's death increases the value of their works in many cases, whereas Jobs' death decreased confidence in Apple because they had built a cult of personality directly around him. Since Jobs wouldn't hire anyone potentially capable of upstaging him, Apple has no other charismatic face.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Let's face it ... by NSN+A392-99-964-5927 · · Score: 1

      I really do like your comment when you said;

      So Apple's riding high on a mountain of cash right now, and the i-Stuff is deluging its coffers with more money every quarter - but the end of that ride is in sight, and it won't be much more than a decade before litigation is ALL the company has left - because Steve Jobs, the technological Elvis, has left the buidling for good.

      Thank you for a bit of sanity

      --
      All cows eat grass!
    5. Re:Let's face it ... by NSN+A392-99-964-5927 · · Score: 1

      Compare the revenues received by the estate of Elvis Presley in 2012 with those of any year while he was alive.

      In other words, STFU.

      Compare the Drugs Elvis took, he is dead... get over it or try pimping your arse in Las Vegas as Elvis. Lisa Marie-Prestley has also made a hash of things, from Danny Keogh, to Scientology and another husband etc etc......

      End of file

      --
      All cows eat grass!
    6. Re:Let's face it ... by thomst · · Score: 1

      Swampash blathered:

      Compare the revenues received by the estate of Elvis Presley in 2012 with those of any year while he was alive.

      In other words, STFU.

      Compare the revenues Apple received on the Mac II with the revenues it's receiving ON THE MAC II now, Mr. Pathetic.

      --
      Check out my novel.
    7. Re:Let's face it ... by cheesybagel · · Score: 1
      Compare the revenues received by the estate of Elvis Presley in 2012 with those of any year while he was alive.

      Are you accounting for inflation? The man had his own airliner back then.

  11. Re:C is for consumer by Skapare · · Score: 1

    Using money to abuse the system, and abuse consumers, is what is wrong. And the OWS movement did focus on that, despite so many members being so completely ignorant about it. But in a way that shows the problem. Most people ARE ignorant about these things. Most people are ignorant about computers, so many of those who are not so ignorant end up trying to make computers easier to use. We don't seem to get that out of the legal system (legislative and judicial). This unfairness is just out of place in modern society and so it need to be outlawed.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  12. Re:i is for idiot. by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 2

    You're thinking of Apple:

    No, he *sn't

    --
    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  13. Re:C is for consumer by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

    He meant to say "Apple is the apothesis of utter corporate filth"

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  14. Re:C is for consumer by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    People like those "Occupy Wall Street" hipsters preaching about the market are like the pope preaching about sex. You must try to learn about things before you can have an opinion on them.

    Uhh. Considering the boneheaded mistakes "Wall Street" has made in the last decade, maybe its them who should finally learn their trade.

    Remember it wasn't the "Occupy Wall Street" hipsters that caused the global economy to collapse.

    But then, maybe everything went as planned, and at least some of the Wall Street people successfully played "the market" with this.

    --
    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  15. Re:i is for idiot. by rgbrenner · · Score: 1

    Right.. because "inside" is the same as the letter i (as the op said).

    Those extra letters don't count?

  16. Re:i is for idiot. by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

    Right.. because "inside" is the same as the letter i (as the op said).

    Those extra letters don't count?

    So you can't read - is there something else you want us to know?

    "Intel tried and failed some years ago to trademark the letter "i" and the numbers "486" and "586"

    --
    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  17. Re:C is for consumer by gmack · · Score: 2, Informative

    Apple has some good products but you have gone much too far drinking the coolade. Apple did nothing to contribute to the invention those displays they simply bought the highest res LCD panels and added them to their systems.

    The "fusion" drives are standard hybrid drives that use flash as the cache for the spinning media. Support is not baked into OS X and everything they described in the link you listed are functions provided by the drive firmware. The fact that they make it seem like OS X is doing anything for this at all is just laughable since I could throw the drive into a windows 2000 system and still have everything in that paragraph still apply.

    I guess they finally realized their earbuds were terrible but the replacement doesn't look like it would be anywhere near as good as my Sennheiser ear canal set.

  18. So you want to double++ the number of law suits? by csumpi · · Score: 2

    Let's start with the assumption that when a corporation files a law suit they have about 50% chance of winning. So with your "litigation finance pool" they would have half of their litigation costs for free. This would mean that they could file 2x as many law suits for the same amount of money.

    Now let's add to this the fact that most things can be argued either way, so whoever has the better argument, as in whoever can afford the better attorney, wins more often. That would make litigation even more affordable for companies with lots of $$ to burn.

    You sure you thought this one through?

    "Frivolous lawsuits need to result in jail time."

    We already have something even better for this in the US. The burden is on the lawyers, and they can be penalized big time for not doing their due diligence. From wikipedia:

    In the United States, Rule 11 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and similar state rules require that an attorney perform a due diligence investigation concerning the factual basis for any claim or defense. Jurisdictions differ on whether a claim or defense can be frivolous if the attorney acted in good faith. Because such a defense or claim wastes the court's and the other parties' time, resources and legal fees, sanctions may be imposed by a court upon the party or the lawyer who presents the frivolous defense or claim. The law firm may also be sanctioned, or even held in contempt.

  19. Re:C is for consumer by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

    Apple has some good products but you have gone much too far drinking the coolade. Apple did nothing to contribute to the invention those displays they simply bought the highest res LCD panels and added them to their systems.

    Apple's Retina Display Patent Comes to Light

    On June 28, 2012, the US Patent & Trademark Office published a patent application from Apple that reveals a system and method to improve image edge discoloration. Yet at the heart of the patent, Apple states that "some embodiments of the LCD panel may be a model of the Retina display, available from Apple Inc."

    --
    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  20. doesn't work by terec · · Score: 2

    Germany has this system ("loser pays"). It means that the risk when getting sued is even higher than in the US, because if you defend yourself against an accusation and fail, you have to cover the opponent's costs and court costs (up to some statutory limits) as well. The statutory fees themselves become a means of blackmailing people legally. There is a "pool" to cover this: legal insurance. Both businesses and private individuals have it, but it's expensive, and it may still not cover the costs. In different words: your ideas have been tried and they just don't work.

    1. Re:doesn't work by Kartu · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't call 100-200 Euro annually expensive.

    2. Re:doesn't work by terec · · Score: 1

      I would. $200 annually over 40 years at 5% is about $25000. That is in addition to home owner's insurance (which would cover or avoid many of these costs in other countries). And what is actually covered is complex to figure out. For example, if you get sued for something that required intent, your costs are generally not covered by legal insurance even if you are eventually found innocent.

  21. Not Scratching My Head At All by whisper_jeff · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm an Apple fanboy and I wasn't left scratching my head at all. And anyone with even a basic understanding of trademark law wouldn't be either. Apple has a registered trademark for "App Store" ( http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4010:2zpo7n.2.5 ). If they failed to defend that trademark in court, they are assumed to accept unauthorized usage of the trademark. Even if defending it is a longshot (which this was), they must defend it or they lose it.

    There are many examples from about 20 or 30 years ago but they are rare now because most legal departments have learned that if you want to keep your trademark protected, you are required to defend it.

    This is different from copyrights and patents. Trademarks must be defended or they become harder and harder to defend.

    So, no, I wasn't left scratching my head. I thought this lawsuit was a longshot but they were required to file it to defend their "App Store" trademark.

    1. Re:Not Scratching My Head At All by whisper_jeff · · Score: 1

      Since I know someone will demand a citation of my assertion that trademarks must be defended, here:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark#Maintaining_rights

      (Relevant section bolded for emphasis)

      Trademarks rights must be maintained through actual lawful use of the trademark. These rights will cease if a mark is not actively used for a period of time, normally 5 years in most jurisdictions. In the case of a trademark registration, failure to actively use the mark in the lawful course of trade, or to enforce the registration in the event of infringement, may also expose the registration itself to become liable for an application for the removal from the register after a certain period of time on the grounds of "non-use".

    2. Re:Not Scratching My Head At All by Frankie70 · · Score: 1

      So your logic is that they have to sue to defend their trademark because otherwise they won't be able to due to defend their trademark later on.

      That's the stupidest thing I have heard of.

      They should have never registered a trademark for a generic phrase like "App Store" in the first place.

    3. Re:Not Scratching My Head At All by Frankie70 · · Score: 1

      So your logic is that they have to sue to defend their trademark because otherwise they won't be able to due to defend their trademark later on.

      Meant to write "So your logic is that they have to sue to defend their trademark because otherwise they won't be able to sue to defend their trademark later on."

    4. Re:Not Scratching My Head At All by Frankie70 · · Score: 1

      That's not his logic. That's the legal system's logic.

      No it's not. You don't apply the trademark unless want to prevent others from using. You can't apply for it and then say that the only reason you are suing now is so that you can sue later.

      Why would you apply for the trademark other than wanting to prevent others from using it by suing them?

    5. Re:Not Scratching My Head At All by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

      The issue with the App Store trademark is not legal defense, but the fact that Apple ever thought it could own such a generic term. It would be like attempting to trademark "Computer Store" or "Furniture Store." One of the basic criteria for trademarks is that they cannot be generic terms; this is what the court recognized. Trademarks that were once valid can become so generic that they lose their protection. Aspirin, Yo-Yo, and Escalator are all examples of trademarks that lost their legal protection because they became used so widely as generic terms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_trademark#Examples.

      The head-scratching is not about the fact that Apple would try to defend its trademarks, but that it would think it could own "App Store" in the first place.

  22. Re:C is for consumer by mangu · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    it wasn't the "Occupy Wall Street" hipsters that caused the global economy to collapse.

    It was the regulations that created a bubble in the housing market that caused it, which amounts to the same thing. People who know nothing about financial markets trying to manipulate things. It's not "Wall Street" that makes mistakes, it's the politicians who try to regulate it who cause shit to happen.

    But then, maybe everything went as planned, and at least some of the Wall Street people successfully played "the market" with this.

    Of course they did. When you apply the principles mentioned in the books I posted above, which a couple of dimwit moderators termed "flamebait", it doesn't matter if the market plunges, you are out by then.

    You only lose in the market if you ignore the signs it gives. A good investor knows how to detect early signs that the market is going down and cuts his losses in time to avoid the worst of it. By correctly applying the technical analysis of the market you may not win every time, but when you lose it will be a small loss, when you win it's a big win, in the end it averages in your favor.

    The first methodical studies of market dynamics were done by Charles Dow in the late nineteenth century. Since then there have been many people who studied the behavior of te market with mathematical tools. The only people who lose money in the market are those who try to play it without knowing the tools.

    As in every other human activity, ignorance is a hindrance.

    However, what is different in financial markets, is that so many people pretend to know something about it without going to the trouble of learning the basics. Why is it that OWS and other people think they have the right to point out the supposed shortcomings of the market if they don't know shit about it?

    We all need money to live, knowledge about finances and the way markets work should be a basic requirement for everyone.

  23. Re:C is for consumer by PoopMonkey · · Score: 1

    And who knows what they "have in the works"; because Apple doesn't announce anything until it is a "done deal".

    You have a more liberal definition of "done deal" than the rest of the world, methinks. One word: maps. Unless in that case you think a done deal is "sub-part mapping software circa 2001"

  24. Re:C is for consumer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    At least do a little research before you make a fool of yourself. Fusion drive is absolutely not an off-the-shelf hybrid drive, and the support is baked into the OS.
    http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/10/apple-fusion-drive-wait-what-how-does-this-work/

  25. Re:C is for consumer by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

    it wasn't the "Occupy Wall Street" hipsters that caused the global economy to collapse.

    It was the regulations that created a bubble in the housing market that caused it, which amounts to the same thing.

    Even if the regulation allowed it, it was greed, ruthlessness and carelessness that made the people responsible give out loads risky loans in the hope their scheme would work out by putting the risk into bundles, completely ignoring the (all too obvious in hindsight) risk of a domino effect.

    --
    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  26. Re:C is for consumer by mangu · · Score: 1

    it was greed, ruthlessness and carelessness

    You sound like the pope talking about masturbation. Yes, it's a sin, according to your opinion.

    It was the policies enacted during the Clinton government that created the situation that led to the bubble in real estate.

    by putting the risk into bundles, completely ignoring the (all too obvious in hindsight) risk of a domino effect.

    What "puts the risk into bundles" is a Government-Sponsored Enterprise. It's not the "greedy, ruthless, careless" bankers that do it. It's the democratically elected federal government of the United States who is responsible for that.

  27. Re:C is for consumer by spire3661 · · Score: 1

    I have full suite of Apple gear(mac mini, ipad 2, iphone 4S, ATV2) on the maxim "Keep your friends close, your enemies closer"

    --
    Good-bye
  28. Re:i is for idiot. by TrancePhreak · · Score: 1

    Difference is Intel asked whereas Apple just starts suing. It also says Intel offered to pay for a new fancy sign. Article even calls it a "no bully" move. Perhaps read your link more carefully next time?

    --

    -]Phreak Out[-
  29. Re:C is for consumer by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

    I would suggest looking at their P/E ratio first, however.

  30. Re:C is for consumer by macs4all · · Score: 1

    He meant to say "Apple is the antithesis of utter corporate filth".

    FTFY.

  31. Re:C is for consumer by macs4all · · Score: 1

    Apple has some good products but you have gone much too far drinking the coolade. Apple did nothing to contribute to the invention those displays they simply bought the highest res LCD panels and added them to their systems.

    The "fusion" drives are standard hybrid drives that use flash as the cache for the spinning media. Support is not baked into OS X and everything they described in the link you listed are functions provided by the drive firmware. The fact that they make it seem like OS X is doing anything for this at all is just laughable since I could throw the drive into a windows 2000 system and still have everything in that paragraph still apply.

    I guess they finally realized their earbuds were terrible but the replacement doesn't look like it would be anywhere near as good as my Sennheiser ear canal set.

    No, they caused those displays to be created. They went to their "glass" Vendor with a design, and had that Vendor (Samsung, I think) FABRICATE their Design. They don't fabricate their ARM-based "A"-Series SoC chips, either; but they most assuredly designed them.

    As for the Fusion drives, are you actually postulating that the DRIVE ITSELF is moving file around? If so, then why did Phil Schiller say that it was OS X that was watching the user habits, and doing the moving? I'm pretty sure he said exactly that. And in fact, as this Ars article shows, this is a form of "auto-tiering", which is a technique employed in large data storage arrays. Read, THEN Post. What you are mistaking this for is simple caching. This is more, and DOES involve the cooperation of at least a part of the OS.

    As for the "EarPod" Earbuds, this was actually something like the THIRD re-design. Are they Audiophile material? Hardly; but they are significantly better, especially in the bass region; and I submit they are now at least on-par with any other, and significantly better than, the other "freebie" earbuds included with similar devices from other manufacturers. By the way, Apple is under no allusions as to the quality if their earbuds; otherwise, why would they offer several other Third-Party earbuds and headphones in their stores?

  32. Re:C is for consumer by macs4all · · Score: 1

    Apple has some good products but you have gone much too far drinking the coolade.

    There is nothing worse than being the kid whose Mom couldn't afford real Kool-Aid.

    But better than the Mom who gave their kids Strawberry Flavor-Aid...

    What? Too soon?

  33. Re:i is for idiot. by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

    Difference is Intel asked whereas Apple just starts suing.

    No, the difference is that Intel keeps suing everyone who uses "intel" anywhere - IOW there is no difference. But nice try to change the topic.

    --
    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  34. Re:C is for consumer by macs4all · · Score: 1

    And who knows what they "have in the works"; because Apple doesn't announce anything until it is a "done deal".

    You have a more liberal definition of "done deal" than the rest of the world, methinks. One word: maps. Unless in that case you think a done deal is "sub-part mapping software circa 2001"

    No, it is you that seems to have an alternate definition for "done deal" than the rest of us. Everyone else who read my comments knew that what I meant was "Ready to be REVEALED". It does not confer a warranty of merchantability nor fitness of purpose. Learn English next time.

  35. Re:C is for consumer by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

    it was greed, ruthlessness and carelessness

    You sound like the pope talking about masturbation.

    At least I don't sound like a moron. Bye.

    --
    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  36. Re:C is for consumer by macs4all · · Score: 1

    Don't mean to respond to my own post; but necessary for clarification.

    I realized after I clicked Submit that Done Deal actually denotes something that is considered "already decided", or "unavoidable".

  37. Re:C is for consumer by macs4all · · Score: 1

    So which is it? They used to innovate, or they never innovated? Can't be both.

    Did he say it was both?

    Why yes, yes he did.

  38. Re:C is for consumer by Algae_94 · · Score: 1

    yeah, "macs4all" is a totally unbiased user.

    I notice that a lot of your listed items are things that have already been released. I don't see how that refutes a claim that they have nothing in the works.

  39. Re:C is for consumer by Aighearach · · Score: 1

    I felt dirty just seeing it in the list of options.

  40. Re:C is for consumer by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

    He meant to say "Apple corporate sphincter is utterly filthy".

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  41. Re:C is for consumer by macs4all · · Score: 1

    yeah, "macs4all" is a totally unbiased user. I notice that a lot of your listed items are things that have already been released. I don't see how that refutes a claim that they have nothing in the works.

    Oooo, another ad Hominem attack. Way to start a compelling argument...

    I guess you didn't notice that I was replying to the GGP's claim that Apple "for the PAST YEAR...", nor did you notice my (obviously true) statement that typically NO ONE outside of Apple and others under NDA knows what they "...have in the works."

    Fucking children. Learn to read...

  42. Re:C is for consumer by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

    Maybe you need to clean your sphincter

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  43. Re:C is for consumer by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

    I totally understand that your sphincter does not smell bad to you, after all, you're willing to use Apple products.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.