Slashdot Mirror
Valve Reveals First Month of Steam Linux Gains
An anonymous reader writes with news that Valve has updated its Hardware & Software Survey for December 2012, which reflects the first month of the platform being available for Linux. Even though the project is still in a beta test, players on Ubuntu already account for 0.8% of Steam usage. The 64-bit clients for Ubuntu 12.10 and 12.04.1 showed about double the share of the 32-bit versions. MacOS use also showed growth, rising to about 3.7%. Windows 7's usage share dropped by over 2%, but balanced by the growth of Windows 8, which is now at just under 7%. The total share for Windows is still about 95%.
At least on a Mac, I've found the client to be slow, frequently, unresponsive, and unintuitive.
Maybe Mac and Linux users just have higher standards, and won't put up with such poorly written software?
I wonder how many of the "Windows" users are actually just Linux users using Wine. Despite the Beta, I still do that for games (e.g. Civ 5) that don't have a Linux version.
That was my impression. I've tried the Linux Steam beta and it is terrible. It's slow, clunky and navigating it is a pain. it doesn't integrate into the desktop either, so the app looks out of place. At the moment there is only one demo (free) game for testing purposes and it doesn't run. While it is just a beta, this isn't a very good first impression.
Did you even read the summary? Linux is "debuting" at 0.8% and Mac use rises, so what exactly are you replying to?
I would add that the library of games currently available is very small, so I guess this figure is really quite impressive. Annecdata: most Linux gamers I know still use stream on wine because of whatever their current addiction is (dota2, counterstrike, skyrim, whatever)
Lot sof playable-on-Linux-DRM-free games at gog.com.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
Steam IS DRM.
I'm against DRM when it's a problem, but I've never had a problem with Steam.
If the only reason I'd ever even notice your DRM is trying to do something illegal, I really don't have a reason to take issue with it.
The Mac version tends to lose windows quite often as well. The news, library, game windows, etc. will be active (including the odd duplicate) and not appear on screen. Sometimes it just takes an extra five minutes for the news to load to tell you the latest deal.
Hopefully that's not the case for the Linux users as well.
Even if the number of Mac users is growing it doesn't mean the client doesn't suck. Steam on Mac is worst than iTunes+Quicktime+Safari on Windows.
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
That's a very good point made by the parent, and it has plenty of precedent outside of the Valve/Steam games space. I appear in the statistics as a "Windows User" for Guild Wars 2 (and for many years previously for Guild Wars 1), yet there hasn't been a Windows box at home for years and years. This is sure to be happening for Steam "Windows" games as well.
Wine works perfectly for gaming these days. Beware the "Windows User" statistics!
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
You know, I often find myself forgetting that Steam is essentially DRM. This struck me most lately last night as I started thinking about the new SimCity that's coming out this year and how it's suppose to be "always online" for DRM purposes. I started to think, "Well, hell, I have SC4 on Steam I could just fire that u....waaaaaait".
I don't know if I can really pinpoint why I don't consider Steam to be the kick to the dick that almost all other DRM is. Is it the constant sales and love that get chucked my way? The ability to move game folders/files anywhere and everywhere and have it work as long the signed in account owns the game (my old apartment would frequently dump our Steam games on our NAS to save everyone else who bought it the trouble of downloading it, all legit)? The relatively good server uptime (compared to other game companies)? The ability to add non-Steam games to my library? I don't know, but I just feel like I'm using a service instead of being locked up.
Is it pure? Hell, no. Is it good? I'd certainly say so. If the balance of the two don't balance to your favor I'd certainly see why you'd avoid it. I don't, personally, and my big wish is that the Linux/Mac Steam clients get some sort of built in VM in order to easily play the huge back catalog of Windows only games. This could either increase Linux/Mac growth by easing the pain of transition or it could stymie development by giving developers a lazy out. Either way...VIDYO GAMES!
Yes, Steam is DRM. However, Steam is DRM that gives something back in return.
Being able to download your games as you please, store your saves (on supported games) in the cloud, automatic updates, and the ability to easily download mods for games (when supported), makes Steam more palatable when it comes to DRM. Most DRM schemes just take away from the user without giving anything back in return, Steam is different.
Steam IS DRM.
Steam is a distribution system that uses DRM. They could choose to stop using it and still be a distribution system.
Given that the client was packaged rapidly for other Linux distributions, I don't think they have that problem. I suspect, rather, that non-Ubuntu installs fall into the "Other" category (a full 0.71%.)
Moderators, please explain which part of "Steam is a distribution system that uses DRM. They could choose to stop using it and still be a distribution system" is a troll. Steam is a distribution system. Steam uses DRM. The DRM is not an integral part of Steam; some titles on Steam don't actually use it.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Nothing is worse than iTunes on Windows. It's literally the worst program in the entire world.
Perhaps their engineers are not that skilled?
They started with getting it to work on one distribution (on of the more popular ones), they will get it to work on others.
The articles describing how the worked with graphics card manufacturers to improve performance on linux suggests that their engineers are quite skilled, but only human, so they cannot do everything at once.
Well not really. You can only filter Windows vs Mac. No Linux specific support at all.
AC
I don't know if I can really pinpoint why I don't consider Steam to be the kick to the dick that almost all other DRM is.
Two reasons.
1) It continues to just work.
2) You get at least the game-play value out of it that you spent.
I've picked up a lot of sub-$5 games on steam. You know how much I will care if at some point I can no longer play them? About as much as a care that I let $5 worth of cheese spoil in my refrigerator this week. I wish it didn't happen, but it doesnt pain me.
"His name was James Damore."
That was my impression. I've tried the Linux Steam beta and it is terrible. It's slow, clunky and navigating it is a pain. it doesn't integrate into the desktop either, so the app looks out of place.
Which is surprising since the Windows client runs pretty well using WINE.
I have both installed, and you are full of crap. Steam is slow, clunky and navigating it is a pain on both Windows and Linux. I suppose you could laud Valve for providing the same experience on both platforms, but that's really not much of an accolade considering how crap Steam on Windows is. Regardless, it takes just about as long for either Steam to connect, but it actually takes longer for Steam for Windows on Wine to display its interface after the nigh-interminable login process.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I'm generally fine with the DRM encountered with Steam. Only issue has been the Steam client frequently crashing on quit, which in the past meant it won't allow offline mode when I relaunch it. That's been a pain when I'm travelling and would fancy a quick bout of zombie hunting before my battery dies, and have no Internet access.
Overall the balance between usability and DRM has been pretty good.
-- Using the preview button since 2005
You've gone to far. RealPlayer is literally the worst program in the entire world.
It's about control. You give up control over your own games and your own computer and hand it to a third party. Regardless if you're doing anything illegal, they have the power you your property. Normally they're kept in check because abusing that power would lend them fewer sales, but occasionally, due to greed or a bug or a conflict of interest, you can be sure that they will.
Works fine on arch (yaourt -S steam), and I haven't heard anyone else complain. Just because valve packages steam for ubuntu, doesn't mean it doesn't work on other distros. It's unreasonable to expect valve to package its software specific to each and every distro, version and architecture. I don't know if your last comment was supposed to be funny, but repackaging hardly requires a software engineer.
No. Steam is a distribution system. Steamworks is a DRM, community and cloud integration API which is provided through Steam, but which is entirely optional. There's a fair number of games available on Steam that already do not use Steamworks DRM, or any sort of DRM.
You can spend all your time fighting extraordinarily un-restraining DRM, or you can play games.
Stop looking a gift horse in the mouth. From the numbers, having Steam support linux games at all is pretty silly from the business perspective.
It's an act of good will that it exists at all.
So, keep complaining, if you think that's getting you anywhere. I'm going back to playing games
The quality of the Steam client is the biggest issue I'd have with Valve. On the Mac I've found the following:
1) It's not uncommon for it to crash on quit.
2) Online/offline mode is flakey. On most launches it fails first time to go online, but on second try will. No other games or applications have issues here.
3) Initially the UI was buggy as hell. I think it's improved, or I just got used to a UI that appears to have been modelled on tacky MP3 player software from the 90s, or a game mods website. Another example is in how it does weird things when flicking between sections. I go to Greenlight and begin playing a trailer. If I switch to Library the audio continues, and if I return to Greenlight I see the trailer playing away. If I click on News, and then go to Greenlight it returns to the main Greenlight page. That's typical of the odd quirks of Steam.
In all, I find the benefits outweighing the issues.
-- Using the preview button since 2005
Are we running the same Steam? I've been using it for years, and never encountered anything just described. It's quick and gets out of the way as soon as I tell it I want to play a game. In fact, my only irritation is that it has to install the DirectX runtime or VC RED (whichever it is) for each new game, but I sort of understand why it's doing that, and it only happens once.
If you can't convince them, convict them.
The Steam client itself works just fine. The problem is Valve's distribution system. I had 4 games that were listed as supported. Of those, two of them would not install (as in you can click the install button and it would give a message that it was installed but there would be nothing downloaded). One of them installed but would not launch. The last is TF2, and I really don't care to play that.
I'm not faulting them, it's still beta after all. I'm just not excited about a new platform to play games that are mostly available outside of Steam already with the added bonus of more TF2.
You obviously haven't used Excel for Mac.
1) No multi-threading, which is a problem when the application pretty easily maxes out a core.
2) Bizarre keyboard shortcuts that don't match the standard ones used in most applications
3) Piss poor support for multiple displays, with a resizing bug that's been around for way too long
4) Excel documents don't show up in recent items in Finder
5) Excel addresses files using a path - not a reference to the file, meaning that it doesn't notice when open files are renamed or moved. It also gets confused if you have two mounted volumes (including the home folder) with the same name.
6) Very buggy AppleScript support. I know of no other application that so easily crashes while scripted to do fairly mundane things.
7) Uses its own internal clipboard, meaning that copying and pasting can be pretty bizarre. Copying something, and then closing a document alters the contents of the clipboard. It's also slow as hell. It's not unusual for me to sit there waiting 5 seconds to put a value from a cell in to the clipboard. I could understand this if it's pasting in to a cell that is referenced in heavy calculations, but for just copying a value?
iMovie 3.0 was pretty bad. I'd take Steam of that any day.
-- Using the preview button since 2005
And at the very least, with the games on your system you can always crack them. This is an advantage over streamed games like onlive/gaikai and consoles.
You are the most retarded AC I've seen on /. in the past few weeks. Congrats! So much wrong in so little text.
Also I loved the word "paytard", it tells us exactly the type of person you are.
No
?????
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
Steam is less annoying DRM.
The problem with most DRM on PC games is that it breaks and prevents yo u from doing things that seem obvious. This includes simple things like playing the game without the CD or an Internet connection.
There's actually a tradeoff going on with Steam. It's not just some misguided suit deciding to add extra fail to a product that doesn't really benefit from it.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
From the numbers, having Steam support linux games at all is pretty silly from the business perspective.
Steam is supporting games *from* a business perspective. Its very existence is being threatened. In future steam may only exist OS X and Linux. Its mistake was not expecting this sooner, and not supporting Linux earlier. The reality is Windows is going to be overtaken by Android this year...it actually makes sense to produce games for Linux first, and cross platform is a must in today's new world.
I buy a large number of games, most are cross-platform; DRM free and pretty cheap. I don't use steam because of DRM.
That's funny because I have been playing that free demo that doesn't run.
I have been also been playing other games. I bought them because they were cheap and thus represented little risk even in the worst case.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
You should actually look into the claims you make before you make them, least you look like a fool.
> 3) Piss poor support for multiple displays, with a resizing bug that's been around for way too long
Why would this ever be a problem? This is something that should be transparent to applications.
What happened to this great multi-monitor support in Macs and Windows that's supposed to make Linux look so shameful?
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
The thing with steam DRM though is that you don't really even notice it is there. Contrast to that of CD's of yore where if you forgot to put the right disc in the drive, your game won't start even though it doesn't actually need it. Or when you had those challenge response code books. Or worse, the ones where you had to read the damn manual with a red filter.
Also offline mode is an option with steam too, unlike say diablo 3.
One thing about older DRM was that the pirated version offered better value than the legit version because you didn't have to bother with that crap. Steam on the other hand the legit version offers many benefits that you don't get with a pirated version, like cloud save data and no need to hunt down the game discs if you re-format your PC.
Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
It's definitely a bit on the clunky side with a Mac... Never mind that half the games they advertise to you don't run on your current system. Look at all these games on sale! XCOM: Enemy Unknown is on sale. You click it. Oh look, this doesn't work on your system. Want to discover a RPG or strategy game? Well you can't filter by OS X client and RPG. I'm sure you'd get less windows users if you treated them the same way. 342 games supporting OS X, unsortable... 1859 PC games, 38 Linux games.
Agreed. And at least on my 2.6ghz Core 2 duo MBP, it uses up half a core idle with all windows closed. I have steam running on my Windows box idle with all windows closed and it's not even cracking 0%. Why should I play games on steam when the client eats up a full quarter of my CPU while it's supposed to be doing nothing. No downloading. Nothing. I haven't tested out the Linux client yet (I use Windows for games), but I hope there aren't the same issues. I would expect a more technically minded Linux audience to be less tolerant of such inefficiency.
There's no "your property" involved. You never "buy" games, you always license them, be it digital distribution or not. Read the EULA on boxed games that you have. I think technically they can revoke a license for boxed game and make it illegal for you to play it, although you will still own the box/disc itself.
Coding etudes
Just because it offers something doesn't mean the DRM part is offering it. DRM offers the content industry something. It is the delusion that they're going to make more money. In reality it detracts from people who dislike DRM and from those who end up not pirating it (because fewer people who pirate means less publicity which means fewer sales). There are a lot of shitty movies that have sold well. It has to do with publicty and piracy fuels that.
I don't know what you meant with Steam not integrating "into the desktop", but Steam runs perfectly on my KDE. It minimizes to system tray and otherwise it is a good, well-behaved windowed app, not different from Firefox or Chromium.
Coding etudes
The person you're replying too is trolling.
I can't speak to #1 as I don't have any spreadsheets complex enough to max out the processor long enough for me to notice.
#2 is false.
#3 is false.
#4 is false, his system is fucked if thats the case as its not up to excel to support the feature, its built into the OS.
#5 may be true, I've not yet noticed, but I wouldn't call that a bug, I'd call it a feature. Nothing is more annoying that moving a document to the trash, replacing a backup at the old location, then opening an app and having it edit the document in the trash rather than the one you restored, only to discover the problem after you delete the trash.
#6 not sure of.
#7 So do a lot of apps that provide functionality that the built in clipboard doesn't provide. Closing the app gets you a prompt that asks if you want to store the actual data on the clip board or clear it. If you tell it to store on the clipboard it renders to a more generic format and places it there, which is the same thing that happens when you copy from an office app to a non-office app anyway. While office apps are open, they don't store ALL the data from a copy on the clipboard, just the required reference to the data so it can be pulled up as needed. This is the EXACT SAME WAY it works on Windows.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
In most countries they can't revoke, and most countries consider this "licensing" as buying. Only in US law allows absurd contracts like this where end users end not owning games they paid for.
RMS doesnt' fucking bath or shave and tends to eat his own toe jam. Following RMS's example is one of the more retarded things you do in your life.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
It works for as long as it is advantageous for the company and not for the user. That is the problem. For now Steam DRM is mostly harmless, but that can change tomorrow, or next month, or next year, at their own discretion. And this change would affect everything you already paid for.
Bottom line is, no DRM is acceptable. Accepting DRM is signing a blank check and giving control over your property to someone else.
I'm guessing Excel handles it poorly because it does things its own way, which just happens to be a wrong way. It has the resize bug, it places pop-up windows on the main display when the invoking window is on the secondary display, and the progress window for opening files is squished in to the top left corner because it doesn't know how to centre its position. My guess is that it gets confused when trying to manually determine screen sizes, which it really shouldn't have to do anyway on its own. It's as like as if Valve decided to include their own HFS+ driver with L4D2, so it can load support files. It's as pointless as it is dangerous.
Aside from only being able to the menu bar on one display, Mac support for multiple displays works very nicely. It's not the fault of the system when a bunch of cowboys ignore APIs in favour of using their own botched approach.
Oh, and modal dialogues for find operations? Batshit crazy!
-- Using the preview button since 2005
Why is it that they fix the case sensitive issue (I assume, since Linux is case sensitive by default) for Linux, but the Mac client still refuses to work on a case sensistive volume?
WHAT THE FUCK?
I could ramble on about how you actively have to do something stupid to not support case sensitive, but I'll leave that for another day.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
You know how much I will care if at some point I can no longer play them? About as much as a care that I let $5 worth of cheese spoil in my refrigerator this week. I wish it didn't happen, but it doesnt pain me.
Wow, I'm sure companies love that attitude. No accountability necessary! Basically, if all of their customers have this "I only care if it bothers me" attitude, they don't have to worry about much at all.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
Nah, I agree with GP... the Windows Steam client seems to have gotten much slower over the past year or so, at least with respect to browsing the store. Launching games you already have installed is pretty swift, though.
Speaking of which, what are the good Linux games in the Linux store? I played with the Steam Linux Beta a little bit last week, but their Linux section is kinda full of indie stuff, and using search seems to return results for all platforms. Couldn't even find L4D2 for Linux, and not really interested in Serious Sam 3.
Esp. interested in games for children, since I have this multiseat Linux box I built for my kids to run Minecraft, but I'm sure they'd love to have access to a little Steam library, and I sure as hell am not going to invest in a second machine and two Windows licenses for a gaming box for them :P
Mr. Stallman, I thought you had an account here...
-- Don't call me "Sir," I increase entropy for a living!
"In future steam may only exist OS X and Linux."
Considering the amount of stupid things a person can read here I don't lightly say this, but this is one of the dumbest things I've read in quite a long time. Second only to some asshat spewing racist remarks in a different thread I read a couple days ago.
You need to pay attention, I am sorry that Microsoft is not the dominant Gaming Platform any more, Microsoft has been shitting on gamers for some time, and the after years of it playing second fiddle to its console, Today it tries to bad Adult games on the PC platform. Microsoft is Also unashamedly chasing Apple profits by locking down its platform to its store & Microsoft signed binaries this is not a secret...its common knowledge, its the whole reason for steam being offered on Linux (in my opinion all reason in the first place)..optional now...mandatory later. Windows is being locked down and Microsoft, not you have the key. Its not a secret. Stream entire business model is looking shaky.
The reality is its Windows being removed at being the No.1 gaming platform, Currently having 1.25Billion users with Android having 625Million last quarter, with activations of 1.3Million daily. The figure currently being passed around is 1.5Million ignoring the Christmas surge, its set to overtake Windows this year...its top downloads...Games. Considering the thrust of your less offensive argument is market share...its Linux that is becoming the dominant platform.
The reality is cross platform is becoming the norm, with Android becoming the goto platform, Linux is already benefiting for both the Massive Growth of Android...and the Abuse monopolist practices of Microsoft.
Implying I am a racist rather than providing a compelling argument is a little sad.
DRM is the world we live in. Complaining about steam is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. We're never going to get a service like steam without DRM. The publishers would never agree to it. Steam has everything I want, with the exception of the DRM bit. I'll take it. It's the least annoying DRM system to date, so if I'm going to have to deal with one, I'd rather it be steam.
Is their Office for Android in the works? Sounds to me like you're greatly overestimating the potential demise of Windows, just like Linux users have been doing for the decade I've been on /..
Did I say windows is going anywhere!?...Microsoft are going to continue to be the horrible abusive monopoly on Desktop they always have been, The evil fucks are locking windows into General purpose machines making them glorified electronics, but those are being outnumbered by these smart devices from the likes of Amazon; Google; Apple.
Note that the DRM in Steam doesn't provide any of that. Steam minus DRM wouldn't lose any of that functionality.
Well, Cubemen is a very nice tower defense game and should be fun for kids.
There is also a Linux version of Team Fortress 2, which you might be interested about.
No. European court allowed resale of a license (if it doesn't have a time limit), but that doesn't mean that it equated buying the license itself with purchasing a tangible item. It's intuitively understood that you cannot own a "copy" of a sequence of bytes. You can own a right to use the said sequence (e.g. execute it on your processor). Can't you see how intellectual property is different from physical one?
Coding etudes
Oh I can, but you own the permanent right to use the copy of this data stream in most countries, which for all practical purpose is the same, and cannot be revoked at will by the seller. You can resell this right if you so wish and do basically anything else you could with a physical good.
Many of the games available via Steam are proprietary software. Proprietary software, as Richard Stallman (peace be upon him) has reminded us time and time again, is immoral and thus wrong for society. Who knows what games could by spying on you and subverting your freedom?
Yes, I cannot ultimately know what the software does. I just trust Steam and its partners and the game publishers to not bite me in the ass. That's enough for me.
Law is not wrong here. How else are you going to compensate the authors? It takes more and more effort to create a game (which boils down to producing a meaningful and long enough sequence of 1s and 0s :-) ) and we need to find a sustainable way to do it or we won't get quality games at all.
This is not limited to games, creating just about every intellectual property (software, movies, music, etc) requires more investment with time.
Coding etudes
Well, Steam used to be like this, but they changed their ToS last summer to make it clear that you aren't buying a permanent license. So if you never paid for such a license in the first place, they cannot take it away from you.
There's an open question about all the games licensed from Steam before that, though.
Coding etudes
Steam DRM doesn't restrict my hardware choices, so it's better than iTunes music (pre-DRM-free) or video, where I have to use an Apple device or Windows to play the file.
more of the users (at least the gamers) are using microsoft works than openoffice! :D
very few like the 1200 horizontal resolution, 1080 is much prefered.
powerpoint is more popular than word
only 19% have internet explorer installed??
gimp is more popular than paint.net
The Office Stuff is confusing, but in reality I suspect this is more about how the questions were asked but Office 60% OpenOffice 15% Works 15% ...with the rest on Docs/Live with a little overlap seems about right.
For Internet Explorer Safari 9% Chrome 12% IE 20%...with a massive Firefox win at 64% again interesting as although Firefox/Chrome was expected to do well in this demographic The heavy bias to Firefox maybe a little surprising, but not unexplainable.
You can picture how this survey was done, but you have listed nothing than unusual.
Although off-topic GIMP(name aside) has always been a great program on every platform, and part of my stock install. Lately though the project has become amazing, check it out.
What a good little consumer sheep. Truly an example for the rest of you 'freedomists' and 'rights lovers'.
Except for, y'know, the games. Steam could never get mainstream, popular games without providing content providers DRM.
Which simply isn't legal here in my country, making this clause in their EULA null and void. Still, if I buy a game from them, which they do sell here, and they decide to do the illegal act of locking me up with their DRM I will have to take it and leave then alone because the legal costs to go after them would be prohibitive. See the problem with DRM?
I'm a game developer myself. I do want to find an easy and affordable way for people to play my games. But this cannot be an one-sided relationship, we need a sustainable model of creating quality, AAA games. Traditional market is crashing into the ground, and the future looks ... well, maybe not grim, but certainly differently.
I predict domination of "pay4win" free2play games, ad-supported games and MMO-like "thin client" games in the near future - precisely because there's no mutual trust between game developers/publishers and gamers. Valve seems to be the closest to it, yet it still gets bashed here.
Coding etudes
Well, I see. But I think the easier resolution is making Steam illegal in your country. The problem isn't with DRM alone... if people treated software licenses in a responsible way, there would be no need to make "rights management" so strict. Traditional way (with which in mind your country's laws were written) simply is not sustainable. When games had book-sized budgets and the sale of a few hundred "copies" was enough to be profitable, this could work. With games having movie-sized budgets and millions of "copies" needed to break even, not so much. And it's not easy to scale down when people's expectations are so way up.
Coding etudes
Games are profitable enough as it is, and there is no proof that DRM does anything to improve this profitability. Even if piracy is rampant enough people buy to pay the costs. GOG, for example, is doing very well selling stuff that has been pirated on exhaustion, so is Humble Bundle and many other no DRM initiatives. Furthermore DRM does not stop, prevents or even hinders piracy. It just diminishes paying user rights and creates annoyances for them.
It can be argued that server sided DRM has nothing to do with preventing piracy at all, but with having control.
I was disappointed that i could get Dungeon Defenders for Linux from the Humble Bundle, but not Steam.
Good-bye
Is that something new? I don't remember agreeing to that and find it to be a gross invasion of privacy.
You obviously haven't used Steam on Mac. I'd choose iTunes on Windows over Steam on Mac any day.
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
A reminder for all that although Ubuntu is the only one on the list, you can run it on other platforms.
Valve has native binaries for Gentoo, SUSE, Fedora, and Arch
You can read more here: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Steam_under_Linux
On a personal note, while extremely happy that linux is finally gaining gaming ground, it sorrows me that they decided to put emphasis on Ubuntu, given its current questionable vision
I'm a game developer who happens to work in Poland and I track CD Projekt (GOG parent) stock close enough. GOG did bring them profit (a bit less than 1 mln USD for 1H2012), Wiedzmin (Witcher) for 360 got them even more (about 5 mln USD) but they are losing money on traditional retail market, their primary source of income up to now (source in Polish). Also, compare those numbers, which may be good for Poland, to 40 mln USD needed to create a modern AAA game.
Also, DRM is essential to delay piracy for the first month of game release. Games only really sell in the first few weeks after launch, if you didn't know - after that, people move on to something else and the "long tail" of sales begins (see just about any game's charts: [1], [2], [3]). So the games need to make up for that large upfront investment in first 4 to 6 weeks, if they don't break even, they are dead. Alan Wake, L.A. Noire, Max Payne 3 - all those arguably known and high profile titles are commercial failures. Most current triple A games flop or barely make even, but unless explicitly asked, publishers rarely admit it. However, if you work in gamedev you probably saw the closures of Grin, Pandemic, 38 Studios, and in general, it starts to happen too frequently.
So no, it's not just about "having control". There would be no need in control if existing model provided a sustainable way to earn money. Truth is, nowadays interactive entertainment market is a gamble.
Coding etudes
A lot of those games on GoG are running on DosBox or ScummVM so you can run them on Linux just as well. Not that GoG makes any specific effort to actually list these or have any proper Linux support however.
I take it you never used Lotus Notes then...
Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
I have one more irritation, at the moment it uses 130MB of memory just sitting in the tray. Now I have 16GB of RAM, but seriously?
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
DRM is not essential to delay piracy, because it simply cannot accomplish it. Most AAA games are cracked and available to download even before release. Still many AAA manage to profit a lot. Especially those that are most pirated in their first weeks.
You, and nobody else up to this day, succeeded in correlating piracy with loss of income, maybe because there is no correlation at all.
Furthermore I couldn't care less about AAA games at all. AAA games come from big companies, usually follow trends and add very little innovation to the market. It can be argued that we would be much better without those companies and their games.
And all markets are gambles. You always take the risks when you enter a market. If you can't take the risk don't do it.
Until you try to sell one of your used games to someone, or give it to a friend.
While Steam is not all nice, they do promise to release the games to their customers if ever they should go under.
Ignore this signature. By order.
You sound as if I complained while I only pointed out why respecting property rights is essential in such a risky market.
By your logic, if you don't want to license certain property just for a limited time, simply don't. Nobody is forcing you to do that. Try to negotiate a price for an unlimited license (which is your only option due to your country's laws), which will offset possible resale, but until they do that, refrain from illegal (according to local laws) deals on Steam. Although I can foresee how Steam may be unwilling or unable to provide you with that if your country is not a large enough market, it may be easier to simply drop support for that territory.
But still, try to. It's business, there's should be no emotions.
Coding etudes
That is a libertarian view I can't agree with, Some abusive practices must be prevented by laws. Licensing virtual goods for undetermined time at the discretion of the seller simply shouldn't be allowed, as it is not here and in a lot of other places. Copyright in its current implementation is bad enough as it is, this kind of abuse just makes it much worse.
Will Valves servers be around in 30 years? Perhaps? Is it guaranteed? Nope.
True, but it's not like that will be very different with all other modern games. Games these days, even when single player, are filled with online integration and frequently need patches after the release to work properly. None of that will work in 30 years or even 5 years. My disc copy of Bioshock for example is unusable because the patch servers are down, without the patch servers however the game can't be installed, the installation will abort and the game will uninstall itself. That's not even DRM, that's simply shitty installer design, but the effects are pretty much the same. Even worse is the situation for a game like Little Big Planet, without the level sharing community the game will run into serious issues. I have even seen indie games proclaiming to be DRM-free that won't work unless you log into their servers.
When it comes to game archival, regular good old DRM is really a minor issue, some cracker will disable it in a day anyway. The whole online integration is a far bigger problem, as you never get your fingers on the server code to begin with and without that you have nothing to crack or archive.
It's about control. You give up control over your own games and your own computer and hand it to a third party.
That's however not much different then using apt-get on Ubuntu. If Ubuntu decides to remove some software from their repositories, you are still fucked. It might all be DRM-free and Open Source, but you still need a lot of knowledge and work to get it back into working order, which isn't really a whole lot different from DRM, which oftentimes is rather easy to get rid of as well.
Would you mind explaining to me why Steam has to install DirectX or VC Runtime with each game? I'm honestly curious and tried googling for an answer before and couldn't find one.
I always thought that one of the appeals of DirectX was that you install the latest one which all your games then use.
The difference is that these are games. Idle pass-times. Nothing important or personal.
You know, I often find myself forgetting that Steam is essentially DRM.
Have you ever actually noticed Steam's DRM? That is, in the course of your legitimate use of the product, has it ever falsely denied you the ability to perform an action?
If not, that's probably why you don't, and why Steam is least bitched-about DRM I've heard of.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
The thing with steam DRM though is that you don't really even notice it is there.
I notice that Steam DRM is there. Each Steam game I have takes a good fifteen-twenty seconds before it even shows its first splash screen. My non-Steam games show their first splash screen almost instantly.
(Even with Steam in offline mode, they still took longer to start. I got fed up with offline mode though because I'd always be turning it offline to play a game, then back online to look at the steam store, then offline again, then online again, ...)
This is what I keep thinking. Games are not really that important, and as I only pay at most maybe $10 and seem to get years out of them on steam, then if it all goes away, so what?
Not to mention the fact that most of the time it stays out of the way unlike most other DRM.
I see your point. It all boils down which market you want to implement - integrating over time, developers will get the same money, but in different ways. If you outlaw certain licensing models or even whole property rights altogether, software market will look like one currently seen in countries with a weak law enforcement, i.e. a lot of low-quality cheap/free products which suck your money gradually, by nagging you with ads or asking to pay on each step (in the first case you become a product yourself). If law system is strong enough to support advanced licensing models, it opens up possibilities for upfront payments, so you don't have to pay each time you click.
However, it looks like the world is sliding into "el cheapo" approach and micropayments will become ubiquitous.
Coding etudes
Yes. Itunes on Windows is the spawn of satan. I do own an iphone but I have never connected it to itunes and never will.
Not exactly true. You can't correlate quality of software with restrictive licenses. A lot of high quality software is open source nowadays, and the quality of this software is every bit as good as any commercial version available in many areas, and in some better. There is no real proof that copyright, DRM and hard laws against piracy do anything to help to improve the quality of software at all.
I don't know if I can really pinpoint why I don't consider Steam to be the kick to the dick that almost all other DRM is.
Easy, because Steam drastically improves your experience. PC gaming has always been a mess, requiring discs in the drive even so the game is already installed, hour long install and extraction routines, typing in long CD-keys, long hunts and installs for the latest patches and all that mess. With Steam it's click & play. It's essentially the apt-get of gaming. And even when Steam fails for some reason, the support forum is only a click away and often already has the workaround you need.
Of course Steam still has it's problems, the complete lack of any kind of game sharing, is probably the biggest one caused by the DRM. But compared to other services its still lightyears ahead. Most of the others still haven't even figured out how to do game downloads correctly, instead of actually downloading the game, they download an installer, once that is downloaded you can't play, you first have to go through a lengthy install procedure, once that is done, you still can't play, you have to download numerous patches in succession and install each of them seperatly by clicking through dozens of dialogs. Then an hour or two after you downloaded the game you might be able to play it and if not, well, they won't give you an easily accessible support forum.
While I agree that the Steam client is purely written, often unresponsive and sometimes unintuitive, it's actually extremely functional. Steam is the only client I know that doesn't need to install games, that can verify local disk content and fix it without redownloading the whole game, that downloads the latest version of a game without needing manual patches later, that supports well working backup and restore of games and that offers you multiple languages per game. Most other clients fail at most or all of this. Uplay and Origin might seem a little more polished on the outside, but their internals are all fucked up.
Can't agree. I use a lot of open source software myself (even as I write these words, in Kubuntu) and it reminds me of Soviet cars: you always have problems where others don't and you need to know the guts of the car in order to drive it. But I won't argue about that. I'm rather sympathetic to "open source" (but not exactly Free Software) myself (more evidence can be found in my blog), it's just that I don't believe that solid development practices can arise where there's no monetary feedback - and FOSS seems to be hard to monetize. Again, let market decide - currently it looks like FOSS is on decline (together with "unlocked" hardware platforms like PC, where freedom to run random binaries is about to be sacrificed to gods of Security), but maybe - and hopefully - the situation will change.
Coding etudes
it is infact the name of the software. and the latest is __"OS X"__
and macs do run other operating systems other than MacOS, thus not all Macs run MacOS. Read the Hardware Survey and you'll figure out that is also how they list it.
why are you so angry?
Ubuntu gave me far less problems than Windows in my career just to cite a counterexample, and I certainly see neither FOSS nor general purpose PCs in decline, at least I have no evidence of this happening now, despite all the future predictions I've heard on the subject.
My point is that it's largely a legal issue, not a practical one. Working around DRM is often easy, while completely DRM-free stuff can give you a lot of trouble. The only difference is the legality.
In addition, Valve has said they have the ability to unlock your content in the event Steam were to ever shutdown.
What about Apple's maps software. That must be up there for the worst software.
Valve MUST make Linux a viable gamming plataform, or they are out of the game.
That said, they get the same result whatever market share Linux gets. The reason they must run on Linux is not because everybody will sudenly switch, it is because they can use it to threaten Microsoft in the case MS extends their PC monopoly into the game distribution market.
The Mac simply doesn't enable such kind of "deal".
Rethinking email
In my experience the only real benefit Steam provides when compared to pirated versions of a game is support for achievements (which are sometimes useful and sometimes a distraction, which depends on the game and so I'm not sure they're a net positive). The other supposed benefits though I don't necessarily believe are that useful:
* Cloud saving - there have been occasions of cloud saves destroying local data (and hence the real savegames) is the cloud thinks it's not in sync and wants to match the local to the cloud, which might be empty or have an old save. I've had this happen with Plants vs Zombies, and there are many comments about this happening with the Torchlight games. To be fair, in most circumstances the game will ask if you want it to sync, and if you're aware of these problems you'll always choose to keep the local data. But it's dangerous regardless. Since I only play on the one machine I just preferred to backup the Steam folder as most games keep their saves there anyway.
* Hunting down discs when reformatting - anything which is pirated will likely come as an ISO. Keep the ISOs on a separate partition with all your other data and it'll survive a reformat, and you won't need to deal with physical discs.
* Automatic updates - people like to use this as a benefit to Steam, but again, it has its downsides. RAGE for example - the version that originally appeared on Steam was quite moddable, and there were instructions on how to unlock the console and change the visual settings to appear much nicer. But there was a patch that disabled the console unless you use a particular launch option to enable it again, but even then, almost all commands entered won't have any effect. The 1.0 version was hence much more valued. If you were aware of this you could have told Steam to not auto update, but people only find these things out once the update occurs so it's not a workable solution. There are hacks to downgrade back to 1.0 but they will screw with Steam somewhat and honestly, it's worse than just having the ability to not apply a patch in the first place.
As for the DRM, my stance is that it's entirely worthless and ruins the long term value of any game. I don't' use Steam anymore precisely because it and if that means I miss out on a lot of AAA game, so be it.
This posts smells of someone who doesn't want to pay for video games, so they instead attack others who DO wish to pay for their video games.
Not everyone subscribes to Richard Stallman's point of view of "free software is good, everything else is evil." There IS a time and place for non-free software. Verbally abusing me on Slashdot while posting as an Anonymous Coward will not change that fact.
Also, your use of Astroturfing is flawed. The definition is as follows (Wikipedia):
Astroturfing refers to political, advertising or public relations campaigns that are designed to mask the sponsors of the message to give the appearance of coming from a disinterested, grassroots participant. Astroturfing is intended to give the statements the credibility of an independent entity by withholding information about the source's financial connection.
The only financial connection I have with Valve is I spend money to buy video games that utilize their service. Otherwise, I'd consider myself an independent entity.
By the way, any idiot can put in dollar $ing$ in$tead of $'$! Just an FYI.
Oh, come on. Sure, DRM won't stop someone involved in "warez" from getting a copy sooner or later, even before release, but that's not the whole damn enchilada and you know it.
There IS a link between piracy, loss of income and market risk. It's certainly not 1:1, and some studies even indicate that certain levels of piracy may actually *generate* sales, but it's there.
...lets have a look at your waffle. First off gaming platforms xbox/ps3 are kind of small markets about 70Million give or take a few red rings of death. The Windows Market is 1.25 Billion.
http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2012/12/latest-mobile-numbers-for-end-of-year-2012-this-is-getting-humongous.html On mobile phones "Gamers playing downloaded or networked games (ignoring pre-installed games that came with the handset) now number 1.2 Billion globally"
I'm not going to get in a discussion about what constitutes a gamer and what doesn't when your stupid point is your outdated notion that Windows is the dominant games platform. Its not true anymore, Hell it wasn't true the second Microsoft brought out the Xbox
I'm bored I'm going to play a little "Need for Speed Most Wanted" The top selling paid game on Android right now. (I'm actually doing Legend of Grimrock on Linux)
You must be new here. The post you replied to is none other than Twitter. Apparently he is now posting anonymously since all of his accounts are now in the shitter. Twitter is well beyond being a simple open source advocate, he is a fanboy and a lapdog of Richard Stallman. His paranoia has him thinking that everyone that doesn't agree with him are either an astroturfer or a shill. The real identity of Twitter has been revealed to be William Hill.
While Steam is not all nice, they do promise to release the games to their customers if ever they should go under.
Valve does not own the rights to the majority of games on their service. They cannot promise to release anything other than Valve published titles. There are a lot of third party games that use Steamworks DRM.
How happy would Rockstar be if Valve released a cracked version of Max Payne 3 just because they were going out of business?
If you seriously consider installing packages for another distro, you are the Windows target market and should probably switch.
a .deb is the extension of the Debian software package format and will not work on windows. This is a link to a description of a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Package_management_system. Its one of the many major advantages over Windows, its why linux is trivial to maintain, and windows isn't.
The DRM they are talking about has nothing to do with Digital Rights Management! This DRM is Digital Rendering Manager which is a key requirement for for high performance 3D graphics on Unix and Linux platforms.
Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer, Retired
He paid a lot of money for his Mac, best treat it with respect.
All it takes is a little bit of Windows bashing and good chunk of /. instantly becomes DRM apologists, eh? So much for ideological purity.
I been using Linux Steam for about a month now, and it's running just as well as Windows does.
Right, that's what I said. Actually, I said it runs better. It's hard to say, though, because even though my Steam library is mostly indie titles I have precisely one title that runs on Linux, and I have it installed from a deb already (Osmos.) Hopefully one day the Source engine games will be released, so I can at least play the stuff I've already played, whee.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
It used to be tiny, but right now thanks to an explosion of indie games (the vast, vast majority of which have no DRM of any kind) on Steam, it's getting better.
There are also a few games which use their own DRM instead of Steam's, but that's a minority and usually from big publishers.
Not saying that a lot of games don't have DRM, but there are some that do not. It's also worth reiterating that Steamworks DRM is fairly tame in comparison to past DRM solutions, and Steamworks actually adds value for a lot of people through things such as cloud saves, fairly good matchmaking (certainly better than Gamespy or GFWL), achievements, friends, etc. I'd rather have all that without DRM, but I'll take what I can get.
Right now they only have TF2 on Steam for free. If they can boost that with a few more, especially if they can get a big title like Dungeons and Dragons (which does a decent job of capture the pen and paper mechanics us old schoolers used), DC, Champions, or Star Trek they would probably see a significant uptake of Linux clients.
Why stop at Lotus? Pretty much anything that comes out of IBM is a monstrosity... even Eclipse!
I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
Bullshit. You could simply replace Canonical's repos for Debian's. It's very simple. You can do it through the GUI, with only a few clicks, or the CLI, changing only a few lines in a single file. All it takes is a single google search or reading the manual (which is included!), assuming the user is literate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open_source_video_games
They have a serious problem to real Linux acceptance. Besides all the chatter of DRM.
Here's the numbers at the moment, for games per platform. I'm just doing this by clicking the search without any search text,then selecting Games and then the OS. No text criteria used.
1,858 PC games
341 Mac games
38 Linux games.
Right now, they show 41 Linux games on the Linux link. I don't know what the difference is, and haven't bothered to look. :)
If my late night math is right, that gives 4,889% more games for Windows than Linux.
When we were discussing the Steam set-top boxes a little bit back, they had just about as many Linux games.
I love that they're embracing Linux. It would be nice if they actually had a lot of games.
I'll install it, just so there will be more in the numbers. I don't know how much I'll play. Just like the rest of the market, if there aren't enough games that people like, it won't be viable. The set-top box will help encourage developers, if it actually ends up in homes. At least they have a budget to push for it, but all the advertising in the world doesn't give you a high volume product.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
Valve wants their form of 30% rape to beat out MS's future 30% rape marketplace. I wish internationally laws would ban providers from taking more than a 5% cut on apps, music, and movies, books, magazines. It's too much power for Apple, Microsoft, Steam, or Google to be grabbing 30% of all intellectual properties. 5% is still too much but a bit more reasonable. Also, laws must mandate alternate marketplaces that can be selected by the user. Valve is really grasping at straws. Remember how a few months ago they boasted that a many years-old version of DirectX (version 9?) was slower than the latest OpenGL? They're just on a smear campaign to boost the last hope of 30% rape they can hang on to: Linux.
I actually agree with your concerns, but quit with the swearing, fix the 'S' key on your keyboard, and stop bashing people who don't agree with you. That's why you're marked as a troll.
It's GNU/Linux dammit!
Mr. Stallman cares less about DRM when it comes to games and entertainment.
I've found similar, but a little digging showed that it came back to distributors locking the price similar to boxed product to not disadvantage their resellers. Trust me, us Australians know about discriminatory pricing, especially on digital downloads.
I use http://www.steamprices.com/ and pay friends in alternate distribution zones to gift me games. I know a couple of people that use free VPNs to the US and UK to create gifting accounts purely for grey market purchasing.
Steam is treading the line between providing good pricing and not biting the arm that feeds them licenses...
"We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over." - Aneurin Bevan
Valve doesn't have 64-bit steam clients under any platform. The summary seems to imply that it does.
Maybe it meant to say that people with 64-bit linux installations, installing the 32-bit steam client.
I could be wrong.
Liberty.
I've found similar, but a little digging showed that it came back to distributors locking the price similar to boxed product to not disadvantage their resellers.
http://blog.greenmangaming.com/2012/12/australianew-zealand-pricing.html
Example for those wanting examples...
"We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over." - Aneurin Bevan
They started with getting it to work on one distribution (on of the more popular ones), they will get it to work on others.
The steam .deb package converts well with alien and installs on .rpm based systems (fedora and opensuse tested). Some of the games require libraries distributed by Ubuntu and nobody else, but that can be worked around as well with self-made packages or upstream tarballs. (libtiff4, really?)
In my opinion the Valve engineers have done a good job of integrating their application with the ecosystem of a Linux user's home. Adhering to XDG standards for configuration directories makes steam 'just work' on a desktop using those freedesktop.org standards.
Also, their team deserve props for using actual packages. This is unlike some ported-to-Linux games that are shipped as sharchives, binfiles or even tarbombs. On Microsoft's platforms, not having a quality installer could hurt your sales and look really terrible in the review press. On package-based Linux distributions not having a package (or even a repo) is just tacky looking but can also backfire when the installer will no longer work even when the game will.
"You cannot have a General Will unless you have shared experiences. You cannot be fair to people you don't know."
If Ubuntu decides to remove some software from their repositories, I can get it from someone else's repositories tomorrow.
The person you're replying too is trolling.
Okay, I've been using Excel for Mac for about 15 years, and prior to that Excel on Windows for about 5 during college. I'm certainly not someone using Excel as an RDBMS and wondering why it goes slowly with hundreds of thousands of rows of data and thousands of lookups. I know when to switch to something like FileMaker, PostgreSQL, Business Objects or Tableaux. I've been using Macs since the system 7 days. And yes, I do send detailed bug reports and performance suggestions via the MS website. That doesn't mean I'm right, so I'll give you steps to recreate these issues and behaviours. All of the steps are performed in Excel 14.2.5 on Mac OS X 10.8.2.
I can't speak to #1 as I don't have any spreadsheets complex enough to max out the processor long enough for me to notice.
Build something reasonably complex. Doesn't have to be an insane spreadsheet that clearly should be done more efficiently or in another application all together. I see it all of the time, and I'm running a 2.53 i5 with 8GB of RAM. For example, creating 40,000 rows of three columns of random text (no more than 12 characters long), will max out Excel if I select all and copy. A lot of time when I'm scripting Excel, it's the only application where I have to add special delays, or write handlers to monitor its state, so my scripts don't cause Excel to die on me. In fairness to Microsoft, the current version of Excel 2011 is way more stable than the earlier 14.x releases, but still while it's not multi-threaded I'm seeing a lot wasted cycles that could be used to speed up my work. In my example, we're talking about a 1.2 MB xlsx file, with no calculations. That's pretty small.
2)#2 is false.
Command A is the keyboard shortcut for "select all". This is true in the vast majority of applications, and indeed Excel uses this in most places. Try, it. Open a spreadsheet and press Command+A. Okay, now press Command+F to open a find dialogue. Type something in to the box and press Command+A. Yeah, it selects all the text - just as we'd expect. Now press the Replace button, then click back to the text box and press Command+A. Oh, it doesn't select all. Command+A in that context is a shortcut to replace all. That's one example. Now return to your spreadsheet and click in to a cell. Type some text, then press Command+A.
#3 is false.
Connect an external display, with a resolution different to your main display. I generally use the 15" built-in (1490x900), with a 20" external display at 1680 Ã-- 1050. Open two spreadsheets, and place one spreadsheet on each screen (ensuring they don't overlap). Resize the spreadsheet on one display so it occupies maybe a third of the screen. Do the same to the other sheet. Now press the green button to maximise one of the sheets, and then go back and click in to the other sheet. Notice how it then either gathers the documents in to one screen, or resizes the other document in some nonsensical way. Okay, another test. While the spreadsheet on the external display is active, open an existing Excel document that had previously been saved while open on the main display. Note the loading progress bar is appearing towards the top left of your screen?
Also, open a spreadsheet on your secondary display and press Command+F. The find dialogue will probably appear on the primary display. I've seen the same happening for pivot table builder windows. One other annoyance of the find is that it's modal, so if I'm sweeping through a file to find things and change them, I have to close the find window to make changes. If performing the same find, I can of course use Command+G, but to a different find I must re-open the find window. Modal dialogues are so 90s, and really should only be used when changes made elsewhere would break the function being performed in the dialogue.
#4 is false, his system is fucked if thats the
-- Using the preview button since 2005
After a technology breakthrough, it is easier. But within each "stage", it gets harder. E.g. 30 years ago you could produce a decent game alone (for ZX Spectrum). 20 years ago you could produce a decent game with a few of your friends. 10 years ago you could produce a decent game with 20-30 people. Nowadays it takes hundreds of people.
The same with movies, except that movies are a bit older industry and it lived through a few technology changes. But generally, do not expect homebrew stuff to grow to Hollywood level of quality.
As for music, this may be different, because people still like low-tech (e.g. acoustic guitar) music, but I am sure that capital investments required grow for this industry as well. After all, Pro Tools have their high price tag for a reason.
Coding etudes
TF2 is a Source engine game.
Yes, and "a source engine game" is different from "the source engine games", HTH HAND.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
If a game is even remotely popular, somebody will crack it and put up a torrent.
Valve does not own the rights to the majority of games on their service.
It's not going to happen anyway. Corporations never die. If they're in the process of going under, do you really think a court will permit them to give away their assets?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
It's about control. You give up control over your own games and your own computer and hand it to a third party.
That's however not much different then using apt-get on Ubuntu. If Ubuntu decides to remove some software from their repositories, you are still fucked. It might all be DRM-free and Open Source, but you still need a lot of knowledge and work to get it back into working order, which isn't really a whole lot different from DRM, which oftentimes is rather easy to get rid of as well.
Needing knowledge and work is not the same as DRM, which is illegal to remove in many very important jurisdictions. And the very point of Ubuntu is to reduce the work done by the user. The very point of DRM is to place restrictions in the path of the user.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Why would this ever be a problem? This is something that should be transparent to applications.
What happened to this great multi-monitor support in Macs and Windows that's supposed to make Linux look so shameful?
Step 1: Install Windows XP on system with nVidia card and multiple outputs
Step 2: Install Office 97 Pro
Step 3: Put any Office application on the second display, and click on a pull-down menu.
Step 4: Laugh and laugh as the menu appears with the proper X and Y offset, but on the wrong display
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The Mac version tends to lose windows quite often as well. The news, library, game windows, etc. will be active (including the odd duplicate) and not appear on screen. Sometimes it just takes an extra five minutes for the news to load to tell you the latest deal.
Hopefully that's not the case for the Linux users as well.
So far, actually, I haven't had this problem, and I launch the client every couple of days to see if anything in my library has been ported. I launched the Windows client (under Wine) for laughs today and it shit itself, and it actually has only been a week or so since I last launched it and let it update. It took even longer to log in than the Linux client has been taking, and when I accidentally clicked close instead of quit I was rewarded with an unresponsive taskbar icon, and I had to kill Steam.exe manually. But to be fair, Steam's performance on Wine is a poor indicator of performance on Windows.
The login does still take much longer than can be justified. What fucking year is it, Valve? Lay on some capacity, or come up with a login technology that worked as well as the stuff we had in the eighties...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
2) Online/offline mode is flakey. On most launches it fails first time to go online, but on second try will. No other games or applications have issues here.
On Windows there is the opposite problem. After Steam crashes (it does that there, too) it will often start up in online mode even if it was in offline mode when it crashed.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The thing is you don't need to crack the server code you just need to know what the game expects from the server in order to run and then provide that. The real problem here is not the code but the encryption used if any. You just need to know the proper packets to send and possibly route that url to a local url (or IP address depending on multiple factors).
That depends on what the game does with the server. If it's just minor stuff, sure, you might be able to fake that. When on the other side you have substantial parts of the game logic running on the server you have a problem. In the most extreme cases you are dealing with stuff like OnLive where the client send input events and the server returns a video stream, you can't break that unless you plan on rewriting the whole game from scratch.
Also the big issue with all of this is always with the lesser known games. For something high profile like WoW, people actually wrote server emulators, for a random lesser known game people won't go through all the trouble. Those will just disappear or become non-functional once the server go offline.
Steamworks is actually an API that offers modules that developers can integrate into their games, such as DRM, Valve Anti-Cheat, Matchmaking, Leaderboards, Achievements and soon map works among other things.
There, fixed that for you.
There is yet to be a release day DRM system that lasts a few days, let alone a month. Bioshock, Assassins Creed, all those bollocks online only systems were broken within days if not before release day.
This is because of the way most Triple A games are designed. 1/3 of the budget goes on marketing, not to mention that console games in general don't make money as they have to pay a per disk fee as well as extra fees to push patches out via Xbox Live or PSN. The PC version is more profitable per unit, the problem is they do everything to prevent people from buying the game on PC.
"Triple A games" are build on a fundamentally flawed system that will fall over in the near future. Too much is spent on marketing and costs that add nothing to the game itself, like DRM.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
There is yet to be a release day DRM system that lasts a few days, let alone a month. Bioshock, Assassins Creed, all those bollocks online only systems were broken within days if not before release day.
Just to counter that with a simple fact: Assasin's Creed II has been cracked after more than a month of its PC release (3/4/10, cracked around 4/26/10).
This is because of the way most Triple A games are designed. 1/3 of the budget goes on marketing, not to mention that console games in general don't make money as they have to pay a per disk fee as well as extra fees to push patches out via Xbox Live or PSN. The PC version is more profitable per unit, the problem is they do everything to prevent people from buying the game on PC.
True, PC version is more profitable, but it also sells like 1/10 compared to console versions. Why? Certainly not because of lack of marketing...
"Triple A games" are build on a fundamentally flawed system that will fall over in the near future. Too much is spent on marketing and costs that add nothing to the game itself, like DRM.
Try releasing a game without marketing. Advertise it on company website only, or only using company-associated social network accounts. Come on... You know that even viral marketing (the holy grail - word of mouth) isn't free these days, right?
Coding etudes
It is actually the whole enchilada, and no, I do not "know" whatever seem obvious to you about it.
Regarding the influence of piracy in sells, no scientific consensus exists to determine what you are so sure about without any real data to back your conclusions. Nobody really knows if there is a correlation, if it exist what is its nature, and much less if it is significant.
Regarding DRM, the nature of piracy is such that once one "warez" copy appears it will be distributed exponentially. In the end DRM does absolutely nothing to deter piracy because the cracked version is always easily available.
The features are the sweetener to get you to accept the DRM. For some people, it's a good enough tradeoff. For others, it's not. Deal with it, not everyone has the same priorities.
I hate grammar Nazi's.
I never said there was consensus. I said some studies, e.g. http://www.rieti.go.jp/en/publications/summary/11010021.html to randomly pick one. Furthermore, even anecdotal evidence is sufficient to suggest a link exists even though, yes, anecdotal evidence is not sufficient to prove such.
As for exponential distribution, knowing the whole enchilada, and DRM supposedly doing "absolutely nothing", not everyone is aware of how to obtain "warez", not everyone who is aware does so, and not everyone has the same level of technical proficiency.
You keep talking in absolutes. Why?
Also offline mode is an option with steam too, unlike say diablo 3.
Offline mode is only for short disruptions on your home connection. It is utterly useless for when you travel or will otherwise be inconvenienced with no network access for more than a few days.
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
Also, DRM is essential to delay piracy for the first month of game release. Games only really sell in the first few weeks after launch
If this is true, where is the patch to remove the obnoxious DRM after 6 weeks?
Your control through DRM is an illusion. I see lots of AAA titles in their first few weeks available for downloading sans DRM. It is I, the paying customer that gets to deal with all the trouble.
Do you know how many games I have bought recently? None. Why? Because I know that malware will be installed on my system. Your DRM took a paying customer and turned him into a non-customer.
DRM is essential to delay piracy
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
I don't know if I can really pinpoint why I don't consider Steam to be the kick to the dick that almost all other DRM is.
I can tell you why: It does not install malicious software on to your computer. It does not install software that prevents you from mounting ISO images. It does not install software that ALWAYS runs and slows down your computer. It does not install software that makes the game itself more likely to crash. It does not install software that prevents the game from even loading.
Shall I go on?
Steam uses DRM. I have run into it and it has affected me. It is still less unpleasant than having fucking malicious device drivers installed into my computer.
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
Are we running the same Steam? I've been using it for years, and never encountered anything just described.
Lucky you. I have no idea why it takes half of forever to log in but I always assumed it was a poor network connection... until I arrived home and it still acted the same way. *shrug* Maybe Comcast is doing deep packet inspection and delaying the traffic as much as a poor network connection would?
In fact, my only irritation is that it has to install the DirectX runtime or VC RED (whichever it is) for each new game
That is not a Steam thing. It is an game installer issue. It is easier to run the installer for DX/VC than it is to check the versions of all the required libs (which is what the DX/VC installers do).
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
At least on a Mac, I've found the client to be slow, frequently, unresponsive, and unintuitive.
Maybe Mac and Linux users just have higher standards, and won't put up with such poorly written software?
If this was true, they wouldn't be Mac or Linux users.
The developer for The Witcher 2 removed it a week after release. A couple of months in, 2K removed the activation limits for BioShocks 1 and 2 (which isn't the same as removing the DRM but it makes it less obnoxious). And BioShock 1 was unpirated for close to twelve days after relase.
Look, I know you want to live in some little world where there's no DRM and everything is the same but it's just not. DRM is required and the people who make decisions on this are not idiots, no matter how smug you are about it.
Schnapple
Because every version of DirectX has its own quirks and the game is only garanteed to work with one specifik version.
Thanks for the explanation. Seems kinda wasteful, eh?
Admittedly I was thinking along the lines of authentication of the client and other minor communication not that we CAN'T do it but still the level of effort to do this is higher than the level of reward.
Look, I know you want to live in some little world where there's no DRM and everything is the same but it's just not.
It has nothing to do with "my little world" or what I would think to be a utopia.
Commerce is a two way street. You keep your DRM and I will keep my money and we will both be unhappy. You get rid of your DRM and I will get rid of my money and we will both be happy. I am fine with whatever choice you make. I am just trying to help you a bit since I absolutely love to play games and have plenty of money to spend on them.
DRM is required and the people who make decisions on this are not idiots, no matter how smug you are about it.
Look, if you can find a way to prevent someone from distributing copies without that method becoming a burden to me, I really would not care about your "DRM" and I would buy your game. As it stands now, the DRM is nasty, rude, and affects me in ways that I WILL NOT GIVE YOU MONEY for. I used to buy games once a crack was released for it but with the advent of the more evil DRM schemes, I just do not even bother.
I notice that the pirate versions are less hassle but I do not even bother. Fuck it. I will play Team Fortress 2 or Eve online where the DRM does not affect me. Yes, steam has an online requirement but TF2 is an online game so the DRM does not affect me in that case. See? Making an online requirement to a game that does not need to be online definitely bothers me so that is not a silver bullet to YOUR redistribution problem either. See Starcraft 2 for an example. I frequently have no net access (which means no TF2 or Eve).
All I am saying is that the current schemes to stop illegal redistribution suck for me, a legitimate customer. That means I am no longer a customer. There are plenty of people who are willing to pay for their own abuse. As long as they are around, I guess you will be able to make some money. I really do not care.
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
Your heart is working.
For now.
DUN DUN DUNN
But what if they shut down their servers, come to your house, beat up your dog, and marry your future wife???
How great will Steam be THEN?
I'm with you on the fact that Steam by itself is unobtrusive DRM which is acceptable and that more restrictive things like activation schemes are unacceptable. But I had lumped you in with all the people who basically think that a lack of DRM is completely fine and people will by and large behave and not pirate the software if you don't have any. Nothing could be further from the truth. Games like World of Goo have a 90% piracy rate. Look at what happened with Adobe put up CS2 with serials but "only download these if you already own it" yeah right, the Internet downloaded it millions of times for free. Gizmodo basically said they're giving it away for free. People think if something doesn't have DRM then it's OK to pirate it.
And the number of people like you who just won't buy something if it has any DRM is small enough to ignore.
Schnapple
"The thing with steam DRM though is that you don't really even notice it is there"
Until, of course, your two kids each want to play a game that is tied to your account and you realise they can't be logged into Steam at the same time even if they want to play entirely different games.
That shit never happened in the olden days.
"You can't fight in here, this is the war room!"