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What Did Google Earth Spot In the Chinese Desert?
New submitter snooz_crash writes "An Ex-CIA analyst requests your assistance in IDing a base that he has been observing for quite a while. The base has been in existence for several years, but its shape and location do not lead to an immediate answer to the riddle of 'what the heck is it?'"
It's a cleverly designed denial of service attack against the CIA/NSA/etc. By making them waste time trying to figure out what this base is, they're keeping them from discovering actual information.
Too obvious...
Maybe that's why he's an ex-CIA analyst.
You'd get a pretty good idea, I think... if you simply went to the area. If it's a secure location, you'd get some idea of what it is based on the type of people who are guarding the entrance.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Disclaimer: I've never done anything like this. Well, this structure is pretty unique in its shape. Judging by the shadow, it's pretty high up and probably serves the most distinct purpose? It almost looks like that might be a prison yard in the middle with a fence in the back? If you're going to make a building that large and use it for office space, why make that shape? Why not just a rectangular or square building? It could also maybe be the beginnings of an airport or air base with that structure being the tower and the field to be built in front of the flat side of the U. The other sites might be hangars?
If it's a prison, the other sites might be places for arrays of solar panels or perhaps mining sites with the intent of prisoners working on those things. I mean, when you're that far out are you going to make a run for it? The electricity and/or ore would be for nearby Kashgar, Xinjiang?
If any of that were true, I have no clue what this stuff would be though. It looks like the upper left of that has had dirt pushed around to level out the ground for something to be built on top of it though. This went up fast but you might have to give it another year or two before it starts to take shape?
My work here is dung.
Blue roof, yellow trim. Built on cheap land for no good reason. Duh! It's an Ikea store.
Isn't it obvious, the Chinese military like a good anal probing too.
This looks like a pig farm, Once they get the pregnant sows into the farrowing pens in the big buildings, they will eventually give birth an then a bunch of tiny huts will appear spread out through the larger farm area. It will take a couple of years to get up to full production/population.
no cooling for reactors, so if it is, it's the processing site only.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
railway and airfield close by
Try the maps on IBing
It's the new burial grounds for the current ruling party. They always like to go out big don't they?
For some reason this reminds me of Stargate. No idea why.
Looks like a mine with some processing facilities.
Gus Fring's chicken farm.
If it's not a question, don't use a question mark.
Hey, look, buddy. I'm just the only one here brave enough to ask questions, okay? There's nothing wrong with asking questions, is there? Is it illegal? I'm just asking questions. I'm just wondering if maybe this is the site for China's deathray that Obama gave them the plans for under Jimmy Carter's guidance. I'm just asking questions. I'm not making any statements. You can't get mad at me for that. Is this what unions want? China to be free to build whatever they please in the desert? Again, I'm just asking questions. I mean, if I was going to build a soylent green plant, where do you think I'd do it? I'm just asking questions here. I'm not saying that China is turning its overpopulation and starvation problems into a combined solution. But what do you think? I'm just asking questions.
My work here is dung.
Obviously it's a dock for their new fleet of Subterrenes, as the patent recently ran out.
Sounds crazy, right? Yea, that's what people said when I told them about HAARP 10 years ago; now it has its own website.
Crazy is, apparently, a matter of perspective.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
That's where they are keeping Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction.
Factory on the left, dorms on the right. Nothing to see here.
Sooo...
Newest Foxconn facility?
Where are the roof nets?
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
That town has a ton of agriculture (irrigated it looks) around it and it is very remote. It pretty far away for it to be feeding other points in China. Just thought I'd point that out
Well nevermind. I looked at a map of the Midwest at the same scale and it's almost all agriculture albeit with a lot more cities.
simple, fast homepage with your links: http://www.ngumbi.com/
I don't know about you, but I wouldn't go anywhere near a "mysterious installation in the Chinese desert". I'm guessing due process wouldn't either.
If that were the case you'd expect the road to run straight from the dorm building to the factory and not take a half kilometer detour on it's way there. It looks like the plan is for traffic to run between the town to the south and the various sites at the complex with little traffic going between sites.
Here's a clue: the two units under construction to the right of the "dorm" look like what I imagine two coal fired power units under construction would look like. Some of the larger open-air structures around the area look like "transformer stations" (or whatever they actually are) under construction.
Selective responses from the end of the Wired article....
-Malakai
A Dragon Lives in my Garage
Yeah, i also thought dry dock. The U shaped building would work well for it, but the position of the U shape building doesn't lend itself well to transporting large vessels in and out of the area. Though there is a railway just south of there.
I was thinking this as well, with the largest earthen structure possibly the start of a impound pond for cooling
Looks like a mining operation, with the underground entrance at the bottom of the U shaped structure.
You're correct. Mining and refining.
Probably something with a low recovery ratio, like a rare earth. This makes it wasteful to ship the bulk of it elsewhere for refining, so it's done on site.
Some strip mining:
http://goo.gl/maps/ENccv
Post-process waste:
http://goo.gl/maps/cxjrV
The main building is about 150m wide. The two vehicles parked inside it, on the right side, are bulldozers / tractors. The "weird U-shaped thing" is the size of a house... might even *be* a house. The whole thing looks like an ag school field station or, at worst, a work camp (see the stuff to the right of the main building).
See you again in another few years.
[|]
Ha! It got labelled as Offtopic, but at least they changed their summary!
Could be a set of cement mills and kilns, especially if there's lime in the area. They tend to be built near the rock, with the finished product shipped out by road.
The formation of structure and paved spaces almost looks like Chinese characters (to a layman). Probably a clever debt-collector scheme. Once USA intel deciphers it they'll find the secret location where a collection agent will pounce them asking for payment. Sea ports, telcos, ... pay up! It's that or a failed attempt to build a shipyard for a new Noah's Ark for the end of the world... lazy Commies.
Isn't that the location for an underground alien complex?
A high energy laser testbed. The barrels of oil, the cooling pond, the coal electric generators, and the long straight area that would be used for measuring beam focus.
I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
High Winds in the area: http://www.ceoe.udel.edu/windpower/ResourceMap/sse_figure28a_rev.gif
Paper on effects of high winds on U-Shaped buildings: http://nargeo.geo.uni.lodz.pl/~icuc5/text/O_18_1.pdf
This is a clever trick designed by Slashdot to make people RTFA.
You're not making me fall into that trap, by gum...
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
to the Israeli Air Force.
Remember last June, when a village in Austria found out it had been copied by the Chinese, down to the sashes and doorknobs? http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/06/05/2332224/china-secretly-clones-austrian-village
Now they're copying Area 51 in Roswell. Or maybe Six Flags.
Gently reply
Clearly you people don't know what Unicorn Lairs look like. They're not limited to DPRK ya know....
Sig Registration Form 34c_766(a) submitted to Ministry of Signature Management. Approval pending.
look like what I imagine two coal fired power units under construction would look like.
Its probably just a mining operation, of some kind because there is no major transport, no huge power lines, no stacks, convener belt systems. (Coal fired plants would have all of those, and aren't nearly so spread out).
No major rail lines.
No paved roads, just low traffic low speed gravel roads (90 degree corners etc).
Only the eastern most group of buildings seems to be fenced
There are "tailing pile" looking like humps, but not nearly enough for this to be a high burden mine requiring massive material removal, unless they are dumping the tailing back down the mine. There appear to be fields of spread out tailings with lots of bulldozer marks just east of the blue topped building.
The lack of security, transport, massive power, and distance to population centers (which themselves are not that big) all suggest small mining operations, perhaps by several different organizations.
Nothing was there in 2009, so it may be still in the process of drilling to deep ore bodies, and not actually in production yet.
The thing about desert areas is every little truck track shows up forever.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
THe fact it's in a dessert made me think that it's a building to house water. Not a water tower or indoor artificial lake, but maybe a waste treatment plant or something like that. You need to build infrastructure to support people if you are going to build towns and cities, and China is building ghost cities in preparation for the upcoming global crisis (when the US collapses, SSEZ - Shenzhen, will go down with it - so much of that area is dedicated to Hong Kong production and US company outsourcing, and the millions living there - many illegals, will want to flee). So having pre-built cities that are empty, something the US sees as stupid, will let the government step in and give 10,000,000 jobs to people to run the empty cities, then millions more will follow them with services and support, cleaning out the localities that are in crisis. They don't have enough space for the people flocking to the cities now, so expanding, even if only by pre-making cities, makes sense. At least, it will in 10 years when the US defaults on the debt and the world economy routes around the damage.
Learn to love Alaska
It's all spread out so probably a processing plant for something with a high risk of exploding of burning.
If you look at the second image you'll notice there's a fair bit of greenery nearby and what appears to be residential blocks.
Roof nets are more expensive than replacement workers, they're only used to save the share price from falling when people complain about high suicide rates, catching the workers is just a side-effect.
Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
Except you have no idea what time of day or what time of year that photo was taken.
... they are applying stratagem 29 and decking the tree with false blossoms.
A user called "Anonymous Coward" has said it earlier in different words, but that was voted "funny". Probably because Mr(s). Coward didn't explain it properly.
That is one of the dumbest theories I've ever heard. Whether or not a severe trade drought with the US will happen is immaterial, the idea that SE China will suddenly want to migrate west is absurd. An economic downturn in the SE cannot in any way lead to an economic upturn in China's west. Downturns are downturns, and the whole reason that infrastructure exists in the SE is because it's logistically better for trading, period. Not just trading with the US, but trading with the whole world. What nonsense.
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
NT
What, like this? https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=area+51&hl=en&ll=37.233726,-115.804396&spn=0.001452,0.002926&sll=52.8382,-2.327815&sspn=9.031557,23.972168&t=h&hq=area+51&z=19
Hey moron, the slashdot submitter called it a base, not the ex-CIA agent. The ex-CIA agent, if you read the fucking article, wrote: “I haven’t the faintest clue what it might be — but it’s extensive, the structures are pretty big and funny-looking, and it went up in what I’d call an incredible hurry,”
My other UID is three digits.
Looks to me to be some kind of agricultural/horticultural research. Some structures are clearly old defunct greenhouses and plastic tunnels. /T
Big U-shaped building may house offices. Big blue-roofed building to the right looks like a chicken farm.
North of complexes is what looks like a dried riverbed, a possible source of water (subsurface).
Warning: This sig contains a small bug. ==> *
It's a cover for the giant robot killer factory that lies beneath. ;)
This isn't an isolated installation. There's a small city nearby. There's an airport, and just northwest of the airport, a big area surrounded by a neat oval of roads with trees and road dividers, like an unfinished mall or industrial park. Only a few buildings have been built inside the oval, and there's still farming in much of it. East of the city there are streets laid out, but no buildings. The area has the look of a big failed real estate project. Compare areas west of Las Vegas, or California City.
If you switch to Map view it becomes even clearer
As you can see, this place is only a matter of 10 or 15 kilometers from a large densely populated town, it's only a couple of kilometers from a reasonably large airport, there are a lot of smaller farms and a few larger ones, the road G314 looks like it would overlook the "facility" as it runs up to Kuqiwan. It is at most a hundred kilometers from the Kyrgz border
In short, this doesn't really seem like somewhere you'd build your newest top secret facility.
It looks like a big project, I'm sure most people living in Kashgar know about it, if somebody was really interested, I'm sure they could find somebody who spoke english living in Kashgar and give them a ring... "Hi, I'm from the west, we wondered what that big-ass building project you have out there is?"
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I think you are correct--the geography and topography give it away.
If you'll look at the image with the least zoom, you'll see that the facility is built at the edge where two different alluvial fans intersect--the "softer", darker soil is the newer alluvial fan that has eroded down into the much older deposits. There is also a natural formation that runs along this boundary that appears to be a dike--a naturally formed wall--that extends down into the earth. It kind of looks like the Great Wall of China if it were to be viewed top down.
The boundary between these two alluvial fans is essentially a cliff that has exposed the lower layers of of the older deposits at the top of the images. This is an ideal location to find exposed deposits, deposits that otherwise would have been hidden far beneath the ground had erosion not exposed it.
I suspect this is a "dry mining" facility that is going to be mining some substance from this location. That dike is important--since the flow of that alluvial fan appears to come from the top of the map, that means the dike would act as a sort of "trap", much like the riffles in a miner sluice-box--heavier elements would become trapped behind the dike while lighter material flowed over the top to be washed away by the lower elevation alluvial erosion. Much of the excavation in the images that is not associated with a structure appears to be centered around this dike.
The long structures, located in several locations, appear to have individual units inside them (some of them are in construction and have not yet had a roof installed, allowing you to see what appear to be shallow pits, one after the other, lined up inside). These could be "shakers", what amount to a crude centrifuge that uses gravity instead of centrifugal force, to perform an initial separation of materials. Normally, heavy metals are separated in centrifuges after being mixed into a slurry, but that would be difficult in this location--I don't see a drop of surface water in any of these images. That being said, processing would be focused on methods that used as little water as possible.
Another clue is the large "U"-shaped building. This building is located centrally, downhill from the majority of the other operations and has another interesting feature--several small structures that are located a ways away, but have clearly visible tracks (construction or merely vehicle marks) that all lead back to that building. I suspect these are well-heads that tap water located underneath the floodplain that the facility is located on. This water would be used for final separation in centrifuges located inside the main building. The central gate-like feature could be the final distribution point of a two-armed processing facility.
So, my guess is either barium mine, or a lithium mine. Any heavy metal, really, even gold. Any dry-mining facility would look similar at this stage of development--the tailing piles visible are just the start (sample shafts). The real tailing piles will show up once the facility is active.
Interesting considering this article:
http://science.slashdot.org/story/13/01/09/0449218/worldwide-shortage-of-barium
If I'm in the top 1% and I have $10,000,000,000 in cash in the bank (silly, but this is just an example), and the government prints $100,000,000,000,000 to pay off the debt, then the flood of money will devalue mine.
In addition to my money being worth 1/10th what it was yesterday, people will want to sell their dollars because it's "unstable", so the demand on the dollar will fall, so it'll take more of them to buy a Chinese widget. Domestic inflation may stabilize after the initial inflation, but international effects will be huge. At least at the end, the US will be able to manufacture for a profit because of the weak currency. But the effect is not controllable by the US government. What is controllable is to default. The government can pick a patricular security held by a particular person (or country) and select to not pay it off. Poof, debt gone, and no inflation, no drop in dollar. Though I would expect that would create a sell-off of T-bills, so the budget must be in the black before the first default. But the results are much more controllable.
There's no "need" to default when they can print their way out of trouble, but the effects on the economy are different, so they are both valid options. Why would you devalue your currency to print your way out of debt when you could simply not pay it back?
Learn to love Alaska
They've fixed it...
Uncopyrightable: The longest word you can write without repeating a letter.
Before 'you Americans' start bombing the hell out it, based (again) on some limited pictures, as you did in Iraq, maybe it would be a good idea to contact Walt Disney first to ask whether this might be a new Disney World under construction...
"Trump!!", the new Godwin.
So there's no reason for there to be cities there now, but there are. And with the high speed trains, the distance is getting less meangful. Why are there so many people in Atlanta? It's nowhere. What, all there for the peach plantations? Many large cities started from nothing. The only thing you need is water, and even Phoenix didn't need that.
Shanghai and Hong Kong are trade cities. But the quickest route to Paris is now over land, not water. So the west is a good trading place, take the trains west, not the boats east. If the US isn't a trading partner anymore, then you don't need the ports of Guanzhou and Hong Kong areas nearly as much.
Learn to love Alaska
It's where Dell, HP, Staples, etc. send off all your old toner and ink cartridges for "recycling".
As is often the case, heavy metals can occur in mixed deposits--several different kinds of minerals in one deposit.
After looking through the images more closely, something stood out that I should have noticed immediately--this isn't one facility, but four. They simply share a resource deposit. Look near the dike and it is obvious that each section has it's own access road up and over the dike where they become inter-connected by a wide road that extends the full length of the images.
If you'll look at one of the images that shows the entire facility, you'll notice that the rectangular area that contains structures is roughly divided into four mostly equal areas. Each of these areas has totally different structures--the left most has the "shakers" and the the building I suggested might contain individual centrifuges. The next area contains only the long buildings, but also has neat rows of processed materials, perhaps the tailings from testing these structures. The next area has a large single facility, maybe suggesting a more refined process or merely the desire to keep our eyes off of the more telling equipment. The right-most image shows yet another sort of facility that combines the long row buildings with an adjacent building of moderate size.
Perhaps the Chinese have located a region rich in numerous materials, each requiring a different method of processing, and this odd facility is simply co-located because the ore is of mixed content.
Another aspect that backs up a dry-mining location is the fact that there is a sizable community just "down-stream" from the facility--dry-mining techniques (including the recycling of centrifuge slurry) would prevent waste from entering the waterways located near that community, provided that tailings were redeposited on the opposite side of the dike after processing.
"... but there isn't a lot of earth-moving equipment around, not much ground has been disturbed yet..."
Actually, there is. Most of it is located in the lighter area towards the top of the map--it is hard to see them, but that place is littered with many little roads. Most of these end at some excavation--the deposits are coming from the top of the map and are then being brought down these roads to the facilities.
Aye, I noticed the water as well. But it is already being used for the very reasons you stated--irrigation and the town downstream. Wet-mining uses massive amounts of water and leaves you with lakes of toxic slurry to get rid of--there is nowhere to get rid of something like that but flush it downstream right into town. Dry-mining solves this issue.
The "U"-shaped building has a pretty extensive ramp going up the dike to the row buildings--It wouldn't surprise me if a large conveyor belt is constructed down this ramp, connecting the two structures.
You fuckwits in the USA captured the first visitors and locked them up in Area 51. The Chinese are inviting them in, with technology sharing programs and a piece of the potential business profits.
Have gnu, will travel.
China can build what they want. If you are so curious, just ask them.
Be seeing you...
In one part of the complex, two seemingly identical structures are going up, but they are at slight angles to each other. That's gotta drive someone nuts if they are like me. That said I wonder what some of my projects look like from space... I they are lined up down here, but maybe from orbit they'd be obviously crooked.
If the Terracotta Army really is - as I suspect - comprised of ancient freeze-dried warriors, then this could be the site that re-hydrates them and then acclimates the soldiers to current Chinese military technology. Such an operation would be likely be carried out in a remote location and need a lot of water.
Why would you devalue your currency to print your way out of debt when you could simply not pay it back?
Historically, these two have gone hand-in-hand. That is, governments that can't pay their debts also frequently have trouble funding anything without just printing money.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
> THe fact it's in a dessert made me think
> that it's a building to house water.
It might contain water, but if it's in a dessert its main ingredient is probably sugar.
Perhaps it's mining.
But there's what plainly looks like a military installation just to the southwest of the place, with what seems obvious to be a test track for some manner of tracked vehicle.
For reference, this is what the manufacturer's test track for the Abrams tank looks like in Lima, Ohio.
Zooming in on the Lima site reveals the exact same sort of pattern as that in China.
But then again, when looking around the neighboring city I see a lot of stuff that is hard to explain, so who knows...
Kid-proof tablet..
Obviously, the answer is "no"...
Quite obviously, this looks like the asymmetric variant of a Rorschach-Test. Now, did I pass, or should I've been more creative?
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
I never said they wouldn't do both. I'm just picking the least damaging and asserting at least that would happen (and hopefully only that). If worse happens, then I'm more right, not wrong because everything I predicted came true, just the flood came in the window rather than the door. The US still has a large amount of actual value, it's just horribly mismanaged in getting the work translated into government value (we pay more money per taxpayer to cover 20% of the country with bad health care than the UK pays per taxpayer to cover 100% of the country with adequate health care). We had the libertarian revolution in 1776, and it lead to a civil war, massive monopoly abuses in the late 1800s, and the great depression (an artifact of WWI boom eventually running out, with no controls or oversight to attempt to even out the free markets wild and damaging swings). Since then, we've seen more liberal governments come into power and do better than us. The great experiment of the USA is at an end. "light" socialism is the answer. But the people of the US are too much like the ones the Founding Fathers refused to give the vote to, and they vote in people who do them harm, because they tell them nice things at the same time they do the opposite (both parties back to Truman at least, with the possible exceptions of Carter and Ford).
I would like the US voter to wake up and fix the country. But they don't want to. The talk show hosts are stirring the "down with the ship" attitude, with so many predicting the downfall (for various reasons, often conflicting) and none of them offering any other options. There is one. But it's impossible, so talking about it will just end in people telling me I'm wrong, and nothing happening, so I'll skip that.
Learn to love Alaska
Looks like a Chinese Base in the Desert to me.
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
If worse happens, then I'm more right, not wrong because everything I predicted came true, just the flood came in the window rather than the door.
I wasn't saying you are wrong. You are wrong in everything else you say, but not that ;)
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Quickest matters little. Quickest remains via jet airliner.
Lowest cost per ton is where it's at. Which is the ports.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
But the quickest route to Paris is now over land, not water.
But the cheapest way is still to ship things by ship, not plane or rail. Even if the USA was reduced to trade insignificance, the trading areas in the SE are still better situated to deal with India and East Africa (all those untapped resources, yum) than Western China, which hasn't been close to anywhere since the Silk Road closed down.
Why are there so many people in Atlanta? It's nowhere. What, all there for the peach plantations?
Sorry, but it is on a river. Probably the end of the navigable section (or at least once was -- inland cities often grow up at portages), and it grew up as a collection spot for the cotton plantations. Pre-Civil War, cotton was the biggest US export.
Many large cities started from nothing.
Barring Persepolis, Berlin, Washington DC, Riyadh, and Brasilia (all sacred capitals rather than pre-existing natural cities), name them.
The only thing you need is water, and even Phoenix didn't need that.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but my maps show Phoenix on the Salt River, a major tributary of the Gila River, a tributary of the Colorado, so before LA started sucking it all dry they had loads of water, probably even a navigable channel out to the Gulf Of California.
Cities grow up when people have a reason to stay THERE, rather than a day's journey or more away. They stay around when there is still a reason to stay there when things change (hence the lack of population in most Western ghost towns), or when the change is not big enough to make enough of a difference.
An Ex-CIA analyst requests your assistance
I'm am IT specialist. WTF does he want me for? lol.
The US has a debt that is worse than Greece or Portugal or anyone else in trouble. We just have a GDP based on a bubble of optimism. When the "soft" industries (all the support and service industries and exportable out source-able ones) are gone, our GDP will be so small that we'll have the record debt-to-GDP ratio in the history of the planet. The crushing debt will be so obvious that there will be panic, and the government will do all sorts of horrible tricks to make the debt go away. Printing trillion dollar coins with C. Montgomery Burns' face on them will sound reasonable when that time comes.
I shouldn't have gotten a masters degree in business, all the economics study broke me, there's a reason people say "ignorance is bliss".
Learn to love Alaska
Slightly south there are similar "roads", this one has various aircraft clearly placed all over it. So I'd assume bombing or aerial/satellite photography practice targets to simulate an airfield as you suggest.
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Sorry, wrong link, this is the one I meant...
NZ Electronics Enthusiasts: Check out my Trade Me Listings
Ah, now I understand "Troll". Sigh. I thought I had checked that link.
A currency crisis is nothing new, it's a pain but we'll get through it. They happen every few decades, and civilization survives.
You do have some unusual ideas, for example, that China is building empty cities to house people after a collapse. That is a new idea, so while it sounds silly at first glance, I'm going to think about it for a while to see if there is something deeper.
I am most interested in your idea that "light" socialism is the answer, since that certainly hasn't been proven. It is as easy to imagine that such a thing would lead to ruin, along the lines of what Toqueville said, “The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” What exactly do you mean by 'light' socialism, and why do you think it is the answer (presumably the question was "which government will survive?").
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
A rather large map of the the Nevada TTR places the airfield in section 76.
And the wikipedia entry for Juterbog Airfield, a former soviet military base in East Germany, states
Experts suggest that the airfield has been copied by the United States Air Force, as part of its Tolicha Peak Electronic Combat Range (TPECR), in the western part of the Nevada Test and Training Range.[1]
Located 7 kilometres (4.3 mi) northwest of the TPECR is an airfield target (N3722 W11650), designated "Eastman Airfield Target", "Target 76-14", or the "Korean Airfield". However, it has a northeastern taxiway loop which is characteristical for Jüterbog, and three ramps in front of hangars on the western side of the loop. The other taxiways have a similar layout, although the runway is about 400 metres (1,300 ft) shorter. There are two accompanying SAM sites, one 2.5 kilometres (1.6 mi) northwest of the airfield, and one 5.6 kilometres (3.5 mi) northwest just like the original.[1]
So it's a rather elaborate bombing target.
What exactly do you mean by 'light' socialism, and why do you think it is the answer (presumably the question was "which government will survive?").
Single payer health care is cheaper and better than what the US has now. As such, collective health care is like cheaper and better insurance. And so many programs like Head Start saves more money than it costs, so even a libertarian should like it, as it results in an overall smaller government. I consider myself a libertarian, but I agree with Libertarians on just about nothing. The issue is that I'm not the kind that believes in toll sidewalks and 100% private roads. Some things, like the post office, are socialist, and still explicitly enumerated in the Constitution. It always amuses me when the rabid constitutionalists ignore the parts of the Constitution they don't like. The libertarian fore-fathers *knew* there were some things the government should do. Like the post. And if they were doing it today, I firmly believe that they'd put health care in that lot. We all pay for the post offices and post roads. Communistic libertarians.
You do need to bribe them with their own money. "If you vote for me, I'll cut your health care costs in half - *and* improve the quality of care." Voting in UK-style NIH would do that, and that's a good bribe. "If you vote me in, I'll tax everyone but you and send you a check for $10,000,000" is a bad bribe. Bribing people with efficient government isn't a bribe. We don't have to deliver the worst possible government to pretend it isn't a bribe. The police are a "bribe", and even the most libertarian Libertarian believes in at least that one service, right?
I have trouble discussing what Libertarians belive. I've joined 3 different local LPs, but whenever I discuss my issues with them, someone on Slashdot asserts that it never happened because my characterizations were so far off from what they would like the LP message to be. I try to stick to libertarians (with the small L, and no P). but the problem there is I'm the opposite of the LP, but consider myself to be libertarian. There is apparently no such thing as a libertarian that believes in responsibility.
Learn to love Alaska
It's just a wrinkled piece of paper that flew up in front of the satellite camera.
It appears to be giving the finger to US satellites. Really - go and look
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It looks eerily like Warehouse 13...
To find out that the large industry in Kashgar is a Brick Factory.
It doesn't look like anything spectacular to me, but the tree placement, giant warehouse, and that it's on the side of a hill make me wonder if it's just a disposal site of some sort.
If it's anything of importance, I'll bet it's a nuclear or toxic waste disposal site.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
Well ya see, they were building these big old boats when somebody just told them the Mayans were wrong.
One of Umbrella Corporation's many underground facilities.
Parent isn't interesting, it's a string of invalid arguments.
1. "Single payer health care is cheaper and better than what the US has now." Anybody from Canada (and I am) can attest that this is not an absolute truth by any means. Cheaper access to specialists results in sitting on waiting lists for months before essential treatment, because (a) the doctors have moved to more profitable countries; and (b) the state sets limits on the number and qualifications of doctors.
2. "And so many programs like Head Start saves more money...results in a smaller government." This likely refers to the oversight of a product or service, but Obama already addressed this: he could cut the cost of meat by half, if only he fired all the meat inspectors. That any program would be cheaper is debatable, as history has repeatedly seen presidents and leaders of countries around the world promising something would be cheaper, more successful, and result in smaller government. Yet the ideals of one man/woman cannot force all to agree, nor would agreement across all civil servants even result in common principles. Smaller government is unattainable simply by the imposition of different services.
3. "There is apparently no such thing as a libertarian that believes in responsibility" is simply a strawman, and a bad one. Calling yourself a lower-case L libertarian and making such a statement is awkward at best, but generalizations like this are no more effective than those of the rest of the political world.
Slashdot incorrectly posted my reply above as a sibling to AK Marc's post, rather than a reply to it.
And ./ readers finally realize that it's the Chinese glyph for "made you look."
Also, the fact that these facilities shot up recently may also be a clue, as there has been a lot of concern lately about shortages in rare Earths and price jumps as a result. It makes sense that people would try to toss together a quick mining operation while the prices are high.
I read the internet for the articles.
Anybody from Canada (and I am) can attest that this is not an absolute truth by any means. Cheaper access to specialists results in sitting on waiting lists for months before essential treatment, because (a) the doctors have moved to more profitable countries; and (b) the state sets limits on the number and qualifications of doctors.
I specified UK in my comments because of this. I'm not sure how it works in Canada, but in the UK, if you are on a wait list, you can buy your own doctor and get it done immediately. Doctors available for such private care are readily available. It's the best of both. That you are too cheap to pay for your own care doesn't mean that the wait for free care is any worse than the USA. Medical errors kill hundreds of thousands every year in the USA. That you hear only about the heroic/expensive saving of an occasional single life doesn't mean that the "regular" care isn't much worse than other places.
I've had surgery under socialized medicine outside the US, and inside the US with full medical insurance (fully insured still cost me thousands). In the US, I had complications because I was thrown out of the care center while sick (over my objections). Outside the US, I had to fight with the hospital to release me because they wanted to hold me longer to ensure no complications occurred (the only "bill" I got was a request for confirmation of eligibility for government cover, after the treatment).
This likely refers to the oversight of a product or service, but Obama already addressed this: he could cut the cost of meat by half, if only he fired all the meat inspectors.
My point (obviously too subtle for you to understand) is that if you do that to cut costs of meat, you increase government costs in care for all the people sick from the unsafe meat. I'm for whatever reduces the total cost, not what moves internal costs to external costs (apparently the libertarian motto).
"There is apparently no such thing as a libertarian that believes in responsibility" is simply a strawman, and a bad one. Calling yourself a lower-case L libertarian and making such a statement is awkward at best, but generalizations like this are no more effective than those of the rest of the political world.
Then, as a member of 3 separate LPs in 2 different states, I've never run across a Libertarian who believed in responsibility or cared about the content of the Constitution. They were all angry Republicans who wanted more government control, but in a manner to match their personal opinions on what the government should do. That their desires aligned with the other members of that group was a coincidence, and not because any of them believed in some underlying truth that they all fundamentally agreed with.
If you have disagreement with that, take it up with the LP members who made the LP seem like a bunch of gun nuts that would sell out any principles if it would let them buy guns (many of which bought gun dealer licenses solely so they could own fully automatic guns and silencers and such).
Oh, and Slashdot didn't "incorrectly" do anything. That you don't understand something, then, without thought, blame it on someone else seems to agree with your general posting style. Sufficiently indented threads no longer get intented. Click "parent" under your post, and it will correctly point to mine. But don't let facts get in the way of your rant, you haven't so far.
Learn to love Alaska
It could well be something like that.
It seem they are only working the alluvial deposits, there do not seem to be any roads or excavations into the mountainous area.
So it seems that they are not concerned with large tonnage.
It could also be gem stones, or dry gold separation, (no indication of water sluicing at any of these sites), no tank farm, no obvious
pipe lines, no discharge.
No indication of smelting on a large scale, no smoke stacks, and not a big enough power grid to run electrical smelters, so that
probably rules out metals. The lack of good roads or rail lines seems to rule out off-site ore processing as well.
Again, stepping back in time using Google Earth, you see the same linear structures in the large blue buildings (prior to it
being roofed over) that you see in adjacent areas. I have no idea what those are, they could be some sort of separation
facility, ball mills, hammer mills, shaker tables.
or something. Perhaps someone with a mining background would be able to identify those structures.
There doesn't seem to be enough power lines into the plant to support fabrication processes.
In the latest picture on google earth the large blue topped building appears to have a coal pile (although not a very big one)
in the north west corner. That might be for heating, but again, no significant smoke stacks.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Since a dollar represents that the issuing government is in debt to you, the value of a dollar does not change based on how many of them there are, only based on how likely it is that the issuing government will back it.
Back it with what?
Learn to love Alaska
Looks like a gigantic pig farm to me. Send in the CIA, but, make sure they take their hip length waders. It's probably going to be deep SH*T!!!
My karma is bad. Don't get too close!!!
Many large cities started from nothing.
Barring Persepolis, Berlin, Washington DC, Riyadh, and Brasilia (all sacred capitals rather than pre-existing natural cities), name them.
Los Angeles. Only city I am aware of, but it essentially started with real estate development. There are plenty of books about why it shouldn't exist... and I tend to agree with them. IIRC, it had a terrible natural harbor, insufficient water supply, no real natural resources, and wasn't on a major trade route.
Of course LA now has the film industry (and associated tourism), tons of manufacturing, imported water, and is a major trade hub. But those industries all came after the infrastructure was built or the political conditions pushed them to LA.
SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
Very interesting.
But it doesn't seem at all related to the location under discussion, any more than the adjacent rice paddies.
That airfield is a commercial airport. Stepping back in time using Google earth the only thing remotely military I saw was two choppers parked in the elephant ear on the west end back in 2005.
The Test Track is also interesting, because it didn't exist in 2009 either. That oval whole complex of concentric roads seems to be some sort of industrial park, half of which seems to be used for orchards (or something), (north half) ad that use dates back to 2002.
Work on the test track portion (the south east quarter of the oval) began in 2009, which is about the time that works started on the buildings under discussion.
Zooming in on the test track we see nothing but trucks, big open topped trucks, (gravel trucks, ore carriers, perhaps). Nothing remotely military looking, and lots of driving obstacle course exercises, parking exercises. Populated by trucks, not a single tracked vehicle in site. Not even a maintenance shop in site.
I think you've found a driving school. Probably to teach the farm boys to drive trucks, perhaps to drive trucks in support of that mining operation at some later point in time when its up and in production.
There is also what appears to be a new Agricultural School north east of the oval area. Has a playing field,as well as crop fields.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Canberra. No one knows why anyone would want to live there.
All your base are belong to us.
Many large cities started from nothing.
Barring Persepolis, Berlin, Washington DC, Riyadh, and Brasilia (all sacred capitals rather than pre-existing natural cities), name them.
Los Angeles. Only city I am aware of, but it essentially started with real estate development. There are plenty of books about why it shouldn't exist... and I tend to agree with them. IIRC, it had a terrible natural harbor, insufficient water supply, no real natural resources, and wasn't on a major trade route.
It most certainly WAS on one, El Camino Royal (sp?). And while its harbor isn't much, neither are any other harbors between San Diego and San Francisco harbors. The California coast is almost as bad, in that respect, as the West coast of Africa (alas, no fyords until the next Earth). As for resources, it has OIL. In Hollywood, there is a special ordinance banning drilling, else there would be grasshoppers and derricks all over the place. Granted, LA shouldn't be any where as big as it is, and why the center is so far from the harbor I have never had explained, even by my sister who used to live there, but a city, there, makes sense (up to a few hundred thousand).
But the quickest route to Paris is now over land, not water.
But the cheapest way is still to ship things by ship, not plane or rail.
The main reason not much international trade is done by rail (which could be rather cheap, actually) is the transit of other countries. Customs regulations are a bitch, and cargo has to be imported and exported time and again. That takes a lot of time and effort, causing delays, and increasing cost. Many countries require import and export licences for cargo even just for transiting in sealed containers. And that's the real killer of rail transport.
Cargo from western Russia (deep inland) is now transported by ship all the way around Europe to get to Hong Kong. The much more direct rail route is simply not an option.