Google Fiber Draws Startups To Kansas City

Google's super fast internet has turned Kansas City into an unlikely incubator for startups and tech entrepreneurs. One small neighborhood where a group is working on their ideas has been dubbed, the "Silicon Prairie." From the article: "The advantage here for startups is simple: A fast Internet pipe makes it easier to handle large files and eliminates buffering problems that plague online video, live conferencing or other network-intensive tasks. Though the Kansas City location presents challenges for startups, including the ability to raise money outside the traditional Silicon Valley venture capital scene, entrepreneurs like Synthia Payne believe it's the place to be right now for up-and-coming tech companies. Payne is one of those entrepreneurs hoping to launch her startup dream — an Internet subscription service for musicians who want to collaborate online — on the cheap. She shares the State Line Road house, known as the 'Home for Hackers,' with other startups under a deal that allows them to live rent-free while they develop their business plans."

Comments

Silicon Prairie

[Anonymous Coward]

The term "Silicon Prairie" goes back more than 20 years to when NewTek was developing the Video Toaster in Topeka, Kansas. Where is Brad Carvey today, anyway?

Re:Silicon Prairie

[GodfatherofSoul]

I hope not in Topeka, it's a real shithole. Everything that's bad about living in a small rural town and everything that's bad about living in a big city.

Re:Silicon Prairie

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope not in Topeka, it's a real shithole. Everything that's bad about living in a small rural town and everything that's bad about living in a big city.

NewTek moved to San Antonio, TX several years ago.

Re:Silicon Prairie

[unixisc]

Actually, it was the name given to N Sioux City, SD, when Gateway 2000 was based there and was reputed to be the biggest employer in SD. Ah, those days....

Re:Silicon Prairie

[Anonymous Coward]

One small neighborhood where a group is working on their ideas has been dubbed, the ``Silicon Prairie.''

I just hope the originality and innovation of the products exceeds that of the naming skills.

One hacker space - that's all

[Animats]

So there's one house that has a hacker space. Big deal.

Besides, for anything real you use servers in a data center. Nobody runs production servers out of their house.

Re:One hacker space - that's all

[ColdWetDog]

The problem is that "Field of Dreams" happened in Iowa, not Kansas. And it was a fantasy, not a documentary.

Re:One hacker space - that's all

[symbolset]

For proofs of startups yeah, this is OK. Bidirectional Gigabit access to Google's backbone with 2ms latency? Don't throw me into that briar patch.

Re:One hacker space - that's all

[Anonymous Coward]

If they buy me 1000Mbit internet, they can live rent-free at my house too.

Re:One hacker space - that's all

[TheLink]

But managing servers from your house can become much easier with a 1Gbps low latency connection.

Find out that for some unfortunate reason you need to push an entire VM to the server farm? Not such a pain at 1Gbps. Or maybe it becomes faster to push a known working prebuilt machine to the farm than to rebuild it there (and hope it works the same). The farm provider may charge you more $$$ for the gigabytes of transfer, but it could still be worth it.

Or you want to make an offsite backup of data in your "Cloud"? Much easier at 1Gbps.

Re:One hacker space - that's all

[TheGratefulNet]

ahem, folks. its google fiber. how much privacy can you expect when THE company who wants to know 'all your shit' is the one laying and managing the network?

its bad enough that data passes thru google when you USE google. its horrible for a company that wants privacy and security (ie, startups) if ALL your data MUST pass thru google's wires.

is no one thinking of that? it would be like renting wires from the NSA. you think that would be a great idea, do you?

Re:One hacker space - that's all

[Yobgod Ababua]

If I'm concerned about the data, I either encrypt it before transmitting or encrypt the pipe, both things you SHOULD BE DOING ANYWAY, regardless of who owns the last mile that happens to connect to your house/business.

Yeah, it still might not stop the NSA, but Google is NOT the NSA.

Re:One hacker space - that's all

[TheGratefulNet]

end to end, if you are allowed to run encryption, that's fine. allowed, meaning that the dest site is also running it.

but given what I know of mitm attacks and faked certs, I don't trust encryption on the web and that lock icon on the browser. if you built your pc 100% and did not ever have any IT guy touch it, it might be safe. otoh, any company owned computer has to be assumed to have mitm certs preinstalled on it (trust me, I know this) and so you may even think your tunnel is private, but its really not.

having google be in the phys layer is a bad bad BAD idea.

Re:One hacker space - that's all

[kwerle]

I'm selling 100% effective tinfoil hats!

Seriously: why are you worried about google doing cable, and why do you think mitm attacks are possible when using encryption?

Re:One hacker space - that's all

[TheGratefulNet]

because I've seen the tech (and interviewed at a company who BRAGGED ABOUT IT) during the interview.

that enough for you??

Re:One hacker space - that's all

[tattood]

Seriously: why are you worried about google doing cable, and why do you think mitm attacks are possible when using encryption?

He's being overly paranoid. When he refers to MITM certs, he means that in theory, someone could have installed their own root certificate into ALL of your computer browsers, and then they could intercept your outbound SSL traffic. This is how SSL proxies work, but it requires you (or your IT) to install the trusted certs in the browser.

It is quite unlikely that this would ever happen, and is not difficult to detect and mitigate (remove the untrusted certs).

Re:One hacker space - that's all

[kwerle]

because I've seen the tech (and interviewed at a company who BRAGGED ABOUT IT) during the interview.

that enough for you??

Nope.

Re:One hacker space - that's all

[kwerle]

He's being overly paranoid. When he refers to MITM certs, he means that in theory, someone could have installed their own root certificate into ALL of your computer browsers, and then they could intercept your outbound SSL traffic. This is how SSL proxies work, but it requires you (or your IT) to install the trusted certs in the browser.

It is quite unlikely that this would ever happen, and is not difficult to detect and mitigate (remove the untrusted certs).

Boot from a ROM and/or maintain an encrypted partition/app server. Or maintain a trusted SSL proxy server and/or VPN somewhere of your own. Whatever.

Or just wear a tinfoil hat. I've got 'em for sale!

Re:One hacker space - that's all

[TheGratefulNet]

go ahead and think its unlikely.

I could name at least 3 companies that make their business in this field.

but sure, deny it. hide your head in the sand.

Re:One hacker space - that's all

[TheGratefulNet]

seeing is believing.

you don't trust me and that's fine.

for me, though, I walked out of that interview pretty afraid of what technology is now at the point of doing.

more and more, companies are locking down their own workstations and you get pre-installed systems without root.

if you truly think this is a trustable situation, go for it.

me, I'm now assuming that all company lans are unsafe for ssl traffic unless I built my system 100% from the ground up (sw-wise). but that is just not typical for the paranoid corp types that run IT (esp big companies).

I'm not sure what you gain by telling people this is not true. again, I personally witnessed a demo before my own eyes. if you think I'm lying, say that; but don't deny that the tech (and companies) now exist to do this very thing.

Re:One hacker space - that's all

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess you drive to the data center to upload files, email files, download files, teleconference, and do everything else that requires high bandwidth (particularly high upload speeds).

Re:One hacker space - that's all

[kwerle]

Oh - you're suggesting that the companies we work for can spy on us. I agree. What's more, I think we should expect it. What's more, I think it is RIGHT. It is called work for a reason. What one does on their hardware on their time is their business. Their *business*.

I thought you were talking in the general case. ie. don't trust google fiber.

Re:One hacker space - that's all

[Anonymous Coward]

I could name at least 3 companies that make their business in this field.

Yes, there are companies that make their business from being able to do this. However, they cannot make it completely transparent to the user so that there is absolutely no way that the user can know they are being intercepted. The easy way to tell, is inspect an SSL certificate and see who signed it. If it is from Verisign, Entrust, GoDaddy, etc, then you can know it is a real certificate. If your employer were intercepting it, then you would see that the certificate was signed by your IT department's own root CA.

If you are trying to say that there are companies that can truly and completely do SSL interception with no way for the user to know it, then please, tell us who these companies are. Don't expect people to accept you anecdotal experience about the companies you interviewed with.

Re:One hacker space - that's all

[Anonymous Coward]

*"...for anything real you use servers in a data center. Nobody runs production servers out of their house."*

TFA talks about startups.

Remember the story about these two dudes Bechtolsheim went to see and wrote them a check because he was impressed by what he saw?

Their company is now worth about $220 bn. Not too bad for something "not real" started in a garage...

Re:One hacker space - that's all

[Anonymous Coward]

And the Kansas City is in Missouri, not Kansas.

That's the whole point

[stox]

By making an example of Kansas City, the rest of the country will demand similar resources. The days of gouging the US public for Internet connectivity may soon be coming to an end.

Re:That's the whole point

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

The days of gouging the US public for Internet connectivity may soon be coming to an end.

Not as long as internet connectivity is in the hands of monopolies they won't. Monopolies don't give a toss about what the public demands.

Re:That's the whole point

[schnell]

By making an example of Kansas City ...

Per story submission...

an unlikely incubator for startups and tech entrepreneurs

Why is Kansas City an "unlikely incubator?" Because it's fucking Kansas City (no offense intended). Putting Google Fiber there will not change that. Look, I have been to KC, and enjoyed the hip downtown district thoroughly, etc. - but putting Google Fiber in any given town is not going to make it a good place to put technology businesses! Or has everyone magically forgotten Missouri's attitude towards teaching evolution in schools just because Google bought some fiber there?

There are lots and lots of other places that have fast, cheap fiber. Slashdotters love to talk about how they have 50 Gbps Internet for $5/month in Sweden or free cloud-based dick-sucking anime robots in Korea or whatever. Yeah, we all get how much broadband access in the US sucks.

And yet... none of these magical places have somehow displaced the US and its terrible, awful, no-good Internet as the center of the tech world. Silicon Valley is still what it is due to the physical proximity of employers and investors. I love what Google Fiber is doing, but it isn't going to make anywhere else the new Silicon Valley, any more than all the other places in the world with cheaper Internet displaced that region before... which is to say "none."

Google FIber is not going to magically make anywhere a Mecca for technology. What really makes a place a tech center is a.) the tech companies that are already there are form an ecosystem; b.) the universities or other talent pools to draw from; c.) the local state or country's tax policies for residents/companies + immigration/visa policies for new entrants; and d.) the quality of the cultural, educational and political environment to attract new employees and their families to the area. Sadly, Kansas City does not excel on all four, whether cheap fiber is there or not. And if Google Fiber comes to your hometown of East Dead Cow Skull Texas, it doesn't mean that you will be able to attract tech companies either - sorry but it's the truth.

Re:That's the whole point

[Anonymous Coward]

By making an example of Kansas City ...

Per story submission...

an unlikely incubator for startups and tech entrepreneurs

Why is Kansas City an "unlikely incubator?" Because it's fucking Kansas City (no offense intended). Putting Google Fiber there will not change that. Look, I have been to KC, and enjoyed the hip downtown district thoroughly, etc. - but putting Google Fiber in any given town is not going to make it a good place to put technology businesses! Or has everyone magically forgotten Missouri's attitude towards teaching evolution in schools just because Google bought some fiber there?

There are lots and lots of other places that have fast, cheap fiber. Slashdotters love to talk about how they have 50 Gbps Internet for $5/month in Sweden or free cloud-based dick-sucking anime robots in Korea or whatever. Yeah, we all get how much broadband access in the US sucks.

And yet... none of these magical places have somehow displaced the US and its terrible, awful, no-good Internet as the center of the tech world. Silicon Valley is still what it is due to the physical proximity of employers and investors. I love what Google Fiber is doing, but it isn't going to make anywhere else the new Silicon Valley, any more than all the other places in the world with cheaper Internet displaced that region before... which is to say "none."

Google FIber is not going to magically make anywhere a Mecca for technology. What really makes a place a tech center is a.) the tech companies that are already there are form an ecosystem; b.) the universities or other talent pools to draw from; c.) the local state or country's tax policies for residents/companies + immigration/visa policies for new entrants; and d.) the quality of the cultural, educational and political environment to attract new employees and their families to the area. Sadly, Kansas City does not excel on all four, whether cheap fiber is there or not. And if Google Fiber comes to your hometown of East Dead Cow Skull Texas, it doesn't mean that you will be able to attract tech companies either - sorry but it's the truth.

Since when was "physical proximity" an issue when obtaining VC funding? What, do you think they still deliver the money by horse-drawn carriage? I suppose we'll have to wait weeks to get overseas talent, as they only travel by fucking sailboat.

A "tech center" can be built with a damn forum online. And I've probably gathered more good information that way in the last 5 years than I have in the previous 30.

We (as in the US) perhaps remain the center of the tech world regardless of our shitty internet speeds due to the talent that is driving that, not the technology itself. Perhaps pull your head out of the 90s and realize that the only way we're going to stand a chance of growing is through innovation in all aspects of the game. If the Internet has proven anything, it is that location should not mean jack shit anymore. And there's always Kickstarter if you find investors with their head stuck in the 90s too.

Re:That's the whole point

[unixisc]

I don't have strong views either for or against teaching evolution, but how is that attitude even remotely relevant as to whether MO or KS are good places in which to set up tech companies? It's certainly better than the stratospheric costs of the Santa Clara Valley.

Re:That's the whole point

[Anonymous Coward]

... or free cloud-based dick-sucking anime robots in Korea...

That's it mom! I'm leaving the basement for good!

Re:That's the whole point

[Anonymous Coward]

More or less suprisingly tech companies need educated, taletented and skilled people to work for them. The vast majority of them would take offense in the idea of evolution not being taught in schools. This would be a showstopper for them to move to that certain place. In other words: this removes alot of people from the pool of possible hires...

Re:That's the whole point

[Midnight Thunder]

Google Fibre is an enabler. This is part of the reason I believe in government funded internet infrastructure, which is leased out to private entities. The format I would imagine is each company leasing would pay for a access to a frequency band, and would have their own hardware in the main hub, so that they aren't impacted by data usages of other competing companies.

This reduces the risk for the private entities, encourages competition and gets them to compete with better prices and services. The only people that this can be bad for is the monopolies, for everyone else a healthier market develops.

Re:That's the whole point

[Vintermann]

The whole point of this exercise, from Google's point of view, was to intimidate the monopolies into providing real connectivity. They don't want to be in the ISP business, but they also aren't going to sit idly by when those monopolies choke progress with high prices and poor bandwidth.

Re:That's the whole point

[Anonymous Coward]

this removes alot of people from the pool of possible hires...

Don't spell it that way on your resume.

Re:That's the whole point

[Anonymous Coward]

I moved to KC a couple years ago, working remotely for a company in Dallas. I've since switched jobs to a local. I don't know how far along it is to becoming a technology mecca, but I could leave my job today and have a couple offers by next week.

When I first moved up here, the job boards seemed dead, but that's certainly not the case now. It's obviously not Silicon Valley, but I think its got a healthy tech economy.

Re:That's the whole point

[unixisc]

Again, what does evolution have to do w/ whether someone understands how to code or program? I don't recall ever being asked in interviews what I thought about the evolution of man. It would have been about as relevant as asking me what I thought about feminism, or gay rights

Re:That's the whole point

[maugle]

Did you even read his response? His answer was: nothing directly, but educated people tend not to want to move to locations infamous for their lack of education.

Re:That's the whole point

[ctrlshift]

The whole point of this exercise, from Google's point of view, was to intimidate the monopolies into providing real connectivity. They don't want to be in the ISP business, but they also aren't going to sit idly by when those monopolies choke progress with high prices and poor bandwidth.

I don't believe there is any business Google doesn't want to be in.

And as much as I'd like to believe that Google will save us all from shitty ISPs, I think it will turn out much like it usually does when Google supplants an existing product/service. They bring a bizzare form of destruction that kills the competition but also radically changes consumer expectations of that type of service: i.e. they make everyone think X should be free or ultra cheap. See GMail, see Google Apps, see Google Voice, Books, Maps, etc.

Pretty much every product they put out makes it harder to convince people that type of prouct is worth paying for. Why pay dollars when you can just pay in privacy and screen-clutter? Google as an ISP is only going to convince people that a) bandwidth is limitless and b) It should cost next to nothing. Pray they don't alter that deal because there isn't anyone to supplant them.

Re:That's the whole point

[theurge14]

Well, it's good enough for Sprint-Nextel and Garmin to headquarter there, so I guess it's good enough for startups who like Google fiber.

Re:That's the whole point

[Anonymous Coward]

I truly do hope so. Where I live, outside of Huntsville, AL, the best connection I can buy (outside of the satellite stuff from CES this year) is 3,000/348 DSL. That is pathetic. I've a friend in Norway, on an island in the arctic circle that has 25,000/5,000 and pays 1/3 of what I do. I really hope Google or SOMEONE takes this and runs with it.

Re:That's the whole point

[Cyberax]

Proximity to employees is also important. Silicon Valley and San Francisco are _surrounded_ by universities so there's a lot of academia-industry interactions going on there. Besides, you also need support staff: marketing, legal, business development, etc. It's possible to interact with them remotely, but it's yet another hurdle that's absent in San Francisco/Silicon Valley.

Re:That's the whole point

[Anonymous Coward]

As a consumer: I am already convinced that a) bandwidth is limitless and b) It should cost next to nothing.

I know how the bandwidth game works, in a broad sense, the consumer and businesses are being gouged horribly.

Re:That's the whole point

[TheLink]

If Google manages to make money from their ISP stuff, it makes it harder to say "I can't make money 'giving away' gigabit internet connections at that price". And I think that's Google's plan - they're not going to subsidize it with their ad money, they're going to prove to the US people and the regulators that it's possible to make money doing what they do.

I don't think Google really want to be in the ISP business, but their future plans depend on the USA having improved ubiquitous internet connectivity - fast always-on connections with no restrictive quotas.

But if the ISPs don't get off their butts, Google might just go into the ISP business in more and more places. I doubt the ISPs would like that.

Re:That's the whole point

[NeutronCowboy]

Since when was "physical proximity" an issue when obtaining VC funding?

You underestimate the importance of face-to-face meetings for getting VC money. As in, you don't get any without a face-to-face meeting.

There's a reason dog-and-pony shows were created and are still around: we humans love us a good in-person circus show.

Re:That's the whole point

[Archenoth]

I'd like to point out: That wasn't his point.

His point was that beliefs have nothing to do with intelligence. There are undoubtedly brilliant people over there who know how to program well. And who says that a place that doesn't agree with evolution doesn't tech other courses like math at a high level?

That's linking two unrelated things.

Re:That's the whole point

[Archenoth]

I swear I proofread that. Bah. *teach

Re:That's the whole point

[interkin3tic]

Monopolies don't give a toss about what the public demands.

Within limits. Some are more resistant than non-monopolies, sure, especially when they've dug in with lobbyists as much as telecos have, but at the very least, they're vulnerable to lynch mobs.

Granted, a lynch mob of geeks upset that their internet connection was a thousand times slower than it could be probably wouldn't be the most intimidating thing in the world, but get enough of us together with burning keyboards...

Re:That's the whole point

[TheGratefulNet]

the backwardness of the region (evolution is just ONE thing they suck at, sorry..) will keep forward thinking people away from that hellhole of a state.

you could triple my salary and I'd not go there. I know I'm not alone in that feeling, either.

sorry, but 'fast internet' is not even CLOSE to what it takes to draw silicon valley types to backwoods hickville.

the local attitude is EVERYTHING. even if I worked there, I'd have to live there and deal with the local attitudes. I simple could not do that. I simply would not do that. not for any amount that anyone would reasonably pay.

Re:That's the whole point

[TheGratefulNet]

its not even 'lack of education', its *willful* ignorance.

it would be one thing if a school had no money and could simply not educate people. this is not the case here; in this case, they have all the funding they need but they CHOOSE to follow jesus over science. every single time.

for people like me, that would be a show-stopper. I would not want my kids indoctrinated in that! people usually go out of their ways to find 'the right school districts'. well, going to a fundie place like kansas is like sending you child to learn from religious cults. you would not want that if you had a choice and I would not want that, either.

Re:That's the whole point

[interkin3tic]

If they're looking for educated, talented, skilled people, they're probably looking at college graduates. And Missouri hasn't banned teaching of evolution in colleges, at least not recently. Why would the startups give a flying fuck where the students went to high school or grade school? Science education in high school sucks nationwide.

Re:That's the whole point

[Bartles]

Using the term "monopolieS" to describe players in a single market is kind of an oxymoron, is it not?

Re:That's the whole point

[tlhIngan]

The whole point of this exercise, from Google's point of view, was to intimidate the monopolies into providing real connectivity. They don't want to be in the ISP business, but they also aren't going to sit idly by when those monopolies choke progress with high prices and poor bandwidth.

Or for Google, being able to push more ads down your throat. After all, Google owns basically the entire online ad market by owning practically all the ad companies.

Of course, Google puts them at a distance - seeing how they like to hold AdSense as the model for advertising, and trying to hide the connection that they too own the companies behind popover/popunder/rollover/noisy "rich" ads as well.

Of course, by offering their own high speed service, they can offer TV service as well, with Google ads now, rather than generic old style TV ads. This time personalized to your content - search for divorce lawyers and now the TV will show lots of ads for them as well.

Re:That's the whole point

[TheGratefulNet]

at the end of the day, you go home and live next door to those folks who buy-in to the programming that the flyover states are known for. extreme fundamentalism does not mix well, culturally, with the folks who currently run silicon valley.

'what church do you go to? oh, you don't. hmmm. what's wrong with you??'

sorry, but I refuse to live among that style of living.

similarly, I would not relocate to the deep south. same exact reason, too.

Re:That's the whole point

[TheGratefulNet]

two companies.

WHOOPEEE!

come back when its 100x that, please.

(hint: never move to an area where its a 'company town'. the company there or the few that are there, may not be good choices if the one you went there for, fizzles out).

Re:That's the whole point

[interkin3tic]

Having lived in KC, the deep south, and civilized big cities, I can tell you that the differences are more "city vs rural" than "Kansas City vs other moderately sized city." You might have more religious people, but it's DEFINITELY not anything like rural Alabama. Kansas City is firmly blue. You'll see more pro-life signs driving from Kansas City to St. Louis than you would San Francisco to LA, but your neighbors will not be much more likely to judge you for being atheist than any other state.

Re:That's the whole point

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, there are lots of high bandwidth Internet lines that run through KC. Its a major communications hub for the US. Also, there are lots of advanced tech companies here: Sprint, Garmin, Honeywell/KCP, Samsung, and Ericcson to name a few. Sprint is basically the reason the city of Overland Park came into existence. I live on the southwest edge of the metro area and I have symmetric FTTH along with most of the people on my block.

You're right that putting Google Fiber in shouldn't be what makes a place a tech center. But KC already has your item A (tech companies that are already here that are an integral part of the city), item B (KU, K-State, WSU, MU, UCM, Missouri S&T, are all within a three hour drive, and people do jump between local companies), and item C (as weird as Kansas can be, its no harder for a foreign worker here than it is anywhere else). Item D is something they are working on. While KCK and KCMO schools are atrocious, education in the southwest suburbs is superb, and there is a HUGE push for STEM education backed by (surprise) the local tech companies.

I'm glad you've been here and have enjoyed KC, but you need to dig a little deeper to see what's really here.

Re:That's the whole point

[tattood]

You underestimate the importance of face-to-face meetings for getting VC money. As in, you don't get any without a face-to-face meeting.

There's a reason dog-and-pony shows were created and are still around: we humans love us a good in-person circus show.

Are you saying that airlines do not fly to these remote locations, and that there is no way for entrepreneurs to have face-to-face meetings with investors?

Re:That's the whole point

[mrchaotica]

similarly, I would not relocate to the deep south. same exact reason, too.

You can avoid that kind of thing if you live in the bigger cities, like Atlanta.

Re:That's the whole point

[Anonymous Coward]

The whole point of this exercise, from Google's point of view, was to intimidate the monopolies into providing real connectivity. They don't want to be in the ISP business, but they also aren't going to sit idly by when those monopolies choke progress with high prices and poor bandwidth.

are you daft? google would LOVE to be in the ISP. for google to track what individual users are doing on website they have to rely on 3rd parties putting their analytics, or whatever, code on each and every webpage. as the ISP, they get a log of every single page a person visits anywhere. they'll miss other details (eg. screen size) but it pales in comparison to the amount of behavioural data they'll collect.

Re:That's the whole point

[Anonymous Coward]

Since the ISP market is geographically restricted, so an ISP in one location can't compete with an ISP in another location across the country. Therefore, you can say that each ISP is a geographically limited monopoly, so you have multiple monopolies.

Re:That's the whole point

[Anonymous Coward]

He's saying that uncle moneybags requires his dick to be sucked, and those Korean dick-sucking anime robots just aren't going to cut it. No, its gotta be you, on your knees, proving how you'll do every last little thing the guy with the money wants, and they sure as hell aren't going to spend an hour of their day on some plane, even if you paid for the first class tickets yourself.

Re:That's the whole point

[Anonymous Coward]

You left out the suckiness of Kansas as well. The are in the non-evolution business and have a business games plan designed to run the state into the ground and make non-1% pay for it all.

I live in Kansas and am looking for an exit strategy.

Re:That's the whole point

[Anonymous Coward]

You are wrong.

There are lots of companies developing technology here in boulder that require fiber bandwidth to ever see the light of day. Many are headed to to KC to prove out their technology.

Burlington Telecom

[jpatters]

Burlington Telecom is offering 1Gb symmetrical service in Burlington,VT for $150/month; which is quite a bit more expensive than the Google Fiber in Kansas City, but Burlington is a much smaller town.

Re:Burlington Telecom

[mysqlrocks]

Burlington Telecom is offering 1Gb symmetrical service in Burlington,VT for $150/month; which is quite a bit more expensive than the Google Fiber in Kansas City, but Burlington is a much smaller town.

I've started an initiative called BTV Gig with the goal of leveraging gigabit Internet speeds for the benefit of the community of Burlington, Vermont. If you haven't already heard of it, you may want to check it out. We had a Gigabit Salon last month with over 30 people sharing ideas on how we can leverage this network to benefit our community. We're working on a report documenting how we can take this initiative forward and have some other events in the works.

Re:Burlington Telecom

[mrchaotica]

Chattanooga, TN has gigabit service too (run by their power company, of all things).

Can you run a business server on this connection?

[linuxguy]

I have been under the impression that Google prohibits business use of these connections. Including running servers. Can somebody confirm or deny this?

If they allow this, then it would be very tempting. A 1Gbps pipe costs a lot more, even at wholesale prices, from other vendors.

Re:Can you run a business server on this connectio

[Anonymous Coward]

You are correct. The terms of service prohibit running a server unless you get specific permission, in writing, from Google Fiber.

So is anyone actually hiring, paying relocation?

[Jonah Hex]

I'd be happy to enjoy a 1Gbps connection, but I'd need real pay (not the startup promise of pay later) and probably relocation assistance. As a long time Windows hacker who specializes in OS/apps rollouts, migrations, etc, I've got skills but even I can't feed my household on promises. Anyone serious feel free to contact me for my resume, I'm not happy with the tech industry in the Detroit area. (although I'm thinking about Ann Arbor so I can stay fairly close to family/friends) ;) - HEX

mp3.com

[davydagger]

sounds like mp3.com from the late 1990s.

yeah, hopefully the world won't let it go quietly into the night because big media said so this time.

Re:Can you run a business server on this connectio

[dgatwood]

Most small businesses don't run servers these days. They use Google Mail for their email, and they host their website in a server farm somewhere. So rules against servers don't exactly prevent business use....

What will they do when Google pulls the plug?

[girlinatrainingbra]

The problem with a lot of Google innovations is that Google likes to beta the shit out of it and often likes to call it quits when they figure out that they don't know how to monetize it. What will the entrepreneurs do when Google decides that they do not want to continue dealing with the keeping their black fiber alive in Kansas City?
.
Those entrepreneurs will be stuck with zilch or with whatever new price structure is set by google or whomever follows them!

Re:What will they do when Google pulls the plug?

[gl4ss]

buy 100mbit cable internet.

the point about these is.. a no rent office. not so sure about anyone relocating to kansas just for this really, so dunno how much "draw" it has.

Re:What will they do when Google pulls the plug?

[girlinatrainingbra]

yep, if they can afford to relocate to Kansas City, guess what, they can probably afford to buy or get a mortage on a $48000 house for themselves just as easily. So I agree with you that there's not as much a draw to this for those not already in KC. And yeah, google pulls out, they can cable themselves in. But if they'd counted on gigabit access to perform their "high-speed-needing" services, they're going to have to fork out a lot more later, as the 100mbit cable access won't cut it.

Re:What will they do when Google pulls the plug?

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem...is that Google...likes to call it quits when they figure out that they don't know how to monetize it. What will the entrepreneurs do when Google decides that they do not want to continue dealing with the keeping their black fiber alive in Kansas City? ...

I figured Google WAS monetizing from this, as they are charging for the 1,000Mbps access. I can't imagine them taking a bath on this; I suspect they can recover the costs to a fair degree with the prices they charge, seeing how other ISPs are making record profit margins with the prices they charge for their (poor) services.

Google is further motivated to provide the service as it can make their networked software products more competitive in speed and efficiency...they will unlikely go away anytime soon, if at all. They want everything you touch be controlled by them...

Re:What will they do when Google pulls the plug?

[interkin3tic]

Read the contract? Seems like buisiness 101. If you pay to have the fiber installed at your house, you're guaranteed seven years of broadband speed internet connection at no additional cost. If you're starting a buisiness, and you don't bother to get some guarantees that service won't skip out suddenly, then you're asking to lose a lot of money.

Re:What will they do when Google pulls the plug?

[TheGratefulNet]

not only google, but someone is saying 'hey, there's a party over here, come join us!'. and when the party goers leave, what's left is just a mess.

anytime I'd think about relocating, I think 'what is my contingency if this does not work out?'. are there many employers that a tech guy would want to work for? I don't see it.

'if you build it, they will come' won't work for tech workers in a place like fundy-ville. sorry, but fast internet provided by a company who is fickle as hell (they change their mind and cancel things pretty frequently) is nothing to base any kind of business decision on.

Indiatimes.com didn't credit AP/Maria Sudekum.

[Seor Jojoba]

This is actually an Associated Press article by Maria Sudekum. See this link. Indiatimes.com didn't give credit to Maria or AP, which may mean they just snatched and reposted the content. I like to see the original author credited and let her reputation be affected (good or bad) by the quality of her work.

Re:Can you run a business server on this connectio

[VisualFuture]

Where did you find that out? Or can you point me to where (or who) I would request permission from?

Re:Can you run a business server on this connectio

[Anonymous Coward]

Our Terms of Service prohibit running a server. However, use of applications such as multi-player gaming, video-conferencing, home security and others which may include server capabilities but are being used for legal and non-commercial purposes are acceptable and encouraged.

https://fiber.google.com/help/

Google Fiber: just keep consuming, consumer.

Why?

[myspys]

Why do you need fiber to start your company?

You're very unlikely to be allowed to run servers off of it and when has the biggest obstacle to a startup been "dang, i have to wait 5 seconds instead of 1 to download this massive thing"?

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Why do you need fiber to start your company?

Need to deploy a new VM image to the cloud? That's 4 GB.

What to do your own off-site backups from your cloud servers to you home machine? That's anywhere from 100 MB (no biggie) to 100 GB.

I am sure there are other applications.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Why do you need fiber to start your company?

Need to deploy a new VM image to the cloud? That's 4 GB.

What to do your own off-site backups from your cloud servers to you home machine? That's anywhere from 100 MB (no biggie) to 100 GB.

I am sure there are other applications.

Isn't it weird how only tech startups "demand" this kind of bandwidth...to perform the same exact things that corporations do with 1/20th of that bandwidth every single day...

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hell, I'd do that for personal use if I could. Hourly, incremental, offsite backups in case of fire or theft? Hell, yes!

Re:Why?

[DerekLyons]

Why do you need fiber to start your company?

You're very unlikely to be allowed to run servers off of it and when has the biggest obstacle to a startup been "dang, i have to wait 5 seconds instead of 1 to download this massive thing"?

I was thinking the same thing. Plus, if your business plan is so sensitive to speed and performance... why doesn't the speed and performance at the user end (where Google Fiber isn't) matter as well? They (the "startups" and their supporters) don't seem to have actually though this through very well.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

The speed of 1000+ users on DSL being happily fed from cheap source connections can be valuable. Just keep it alive long enough to be profitable, then move up to a fancy data center.

Re:Why?

[donatzsky]

You already can: Crashplan and Backblaze will do exactly that.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

I would instantiate the VM in the cloud in the first place. But on my home FIOS pipe that 4GB VM will upload in a reasonable amount of time. Certainly this could be an over night task if need be.

Re:Why?

[jones_supa]

Also Jungle Disk and Wuala. The list goes on...

Re:Why?

[jeffclay]

Seriously? I don't think you've thought this through well. If you offer a service that uses 56KB/ps for each client, then obviously each of your customers can have a good connection, but you as the provider need a connection with enough throughput to accommodate all of your clients.

Re:Why?

[DerekLyons]

No shit Sherlock. When you get a clue about the 'net though, you'll realize there are many more limitations on bandwidth and latency than the host computer - which was the point of both myself and the original poster.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Will IP telephony be allowed on such connections?

Not so concerned about Brad..

[xtal]

What happened to Kiki? :)

Re:Not so concerned about Brad..

[Anonymous Coward]

Last I checked Kiki is still demoing for NewTek, and Brad moved to New Mexico and does crazy cool things he can't talk to you about.

Subsidy bait does not work

[Required Snark]

This is just another instance of a subsidy swindle. Some organization, usually a city/county/state, offers funding/tax breaks/business space to attract new business. The target is always something glittery and/or high tech: internet, biotech, film. As soon as the subsidy ends, everyone leaves. Typically there is no earthly reason for the location to have the business in the first place. If there was, there would already be that kind of activity going on.

Film production is the poster child for this stuff. There are film production companies who never do any projects. All they do is get subsidies, lure investors, and never really make films. I head a tail about some producers who set up a company in Minnesota when they offered matching funds for equipment purchased in state. The production execs all bought fancy SUVs for "location scouting" for essentially half price. Then when the subsidy ended, they closed their office and drove off in their fancy cars.

If you build it, they will come

[kawabago]

Was there a corn field there?

Re:If you build it, they will come

[Cro Magnon]

Well, considering that Iowa is our northern neighbor, there probably was.

Re:If you build it, they will come

[Anonymous Coward]

Iowa and Kansas are very close (Iowa is in a northern direction), but I'm used to "neighbor states" being those that actually touch. Iowa and Kansas do not border each other. Nebraska is to the north, Missouri is to the east. Iowa is northeast (above Missouri), but Missouri juts up northward enough that Iowa does not touch Kansas.

Oblg. ref. Wizard of Oz

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore...

Pleas send me to Detroit

[Anonymous Coward]

Why doesn't the government support fiber in Detroit?
If the US government or the carcompanies would really want to do something about the bad reputation of Detroit they should go for Google's fiber throughout Detroit, so people would yell; 'Please send me to Detroit!' Instead of letting Romney ship more jobs to China, Obama should atract more investments in well educated labour in Detroit with fiberoptics througout the city. You can't convince me that people are better educated near the Chinese factories then in Detroit. Detroit could be made into an example of renewable energy, fiberoptics and good public transport where people would want to live. Why let China steel the show? I've been in Singapore and this is not China, but why not let planners from Singapore change Detroit in a vibrant city? If we want to survive next to nature I think we need to live mostly in good cities where everything is and not push for invest and let it rot strategies untill we move staregies like in Detroit.
More and more soldiers return from wars, but vind them back into situations without any work or future.

GF in KC

[lionchild]

There are two things about Google Fiber in Kansas City that are interesting to note:

1.) Kansas City (and the midwest) has a low cost of living, making the idea of boot strapping your own startup without lots of Venture Capital possible.

2.) Google Fiber isn't available to business at this time, which means that if you're not at a home address, you can't get it. I'm just not sure why that is, since one of the benefits of getting enough people intersted in the project in your neck of the woods means when it comes in, various NPO's such as the KC Public Library or Union Station will get a Google Fiber feed for free.

Re:GF in KC

[petermgreen]

Google Fiber isn't available to business at this time, which means that if you're not at a home address, you can't get it. I'm just not sure why that is

I suspect the problem is figuring out how to price it and what terms to offer.

For home users they just make it unmetered, ban using it to run servers (a ban which I suspect will be selectively enforced) and operate on the understanding that the vast majority of users (hell even the vast majority of hoarder-pirates) won't come anywhere close to maxing out a gigabit connection on a long term basis but buisnesses will want the ability to run servers and one buisness premisis could contain tens or even hundreds of users. So some form of metered billing seems inevitable.

*Of course while this works for now if some new application comes along that can actually use up that bandwidth they could be in a world of hurt just like the traditional ISPs were when bittorrent showed up and their infrastructure couldn't cope..

Re:GF in KC

[theskipper]

Those are good points. But I'd add:

1) There's quality of life issues that really do offset the low cost of living. Weather, education, entertainment, etc. It's hard to explain but over time it begins to have a significant impact on one's psyche. (Btw, I'm speaking as a transplant from a blue state to a red state years ago.)

2) Perhaps this is due to some local licensing issues? There have been a number of articles on Arstechnica detailing how various telecos have been trying to quash local municipal broadband. Don't know what the agreements between cable/telco and the KS City gov't look like, but I'll bet it's a nasty stew of exclusions accumulated over the years. Protecting business customers would be especially important because they are less likely to churn and more of a profit center. Again, just speculating.

Re:GF in KC

[Anonymous Coward]

I cant understand this server ban., you get x bandwidth what the fuck difference does it make what the data is. it is all 1s and 0s.

Re:GF in KC

[Anonymous Coward]

) There's quality of life issues that really do offset the low cost of living. Weather, education, entertainment, etc. It's hard to explain but over time it begins to have a significant impact on one's psyche.

weather: the midwest has four seasons... mild weather most the year, a little cold in the winter but big fucking deal. it makes you appreciate spring and summer that much more. if people didn't like the weather in the midwest, no one would live here but we do. non issue and the point goes to the midwest.

education: the midwest, by and large and with relatively few exceptions, has better public education system than most places that don't see (much if any) snow. think about it. there's nothing wrong with the public or private universities in the midwest, and some are very highly regarded. smaller colleges, too. no ivy league, no stanford, no mit, but big fucking deal. snobish and/or elitist schools breed snobish and elisist attitudes this country doesn't need more of. point goes to the midwest.

entertainment: o the horror of not having broadway or hollywood. media is digital. theatres are everywhere. live entertainment and events are usually cheaper in the midwest. so what if you have to wait for a broadway show to hit the road, big fucking deal. not like everyone that lives in new york goes to shows on broadway.. only the filthy rich go more than once.. most the others are once-in-a-lifetime attendees, aka tourists. internet is everywhere. sports are everywhere. tv is everywhere. imagine watching a local newscast that isn't all about murders and such. point goes to the midwest.

Re:GF in KC

[lionchild]

If Google Fiber for Business is going to put some limits on it, I would rather see them move towards a number of users, opposed to metering. 1-25 employees/users, 26-100 employees/users, 101-500 employees/users, 501-1000 employees/users, etc..

That would encourage smaller business, start ups, and so forth, stimulate them, but give them room to effectively grow things as business clients pick up more employees/users.

This was foretold in song

[Muad'Dave]

Everything's Up to Date in Kansas City. They've gone about as 'fur as they can go - Rodgers and Hammerstein got it right!

They did credit AP

[Frankie70]

It says just above the story's title

"14 Jan, 2013, 01.19AM IST, AP"

Re:They did credit AP

[Raenex]

That's some pretty shitty "credit". It looks like just another piece of the date. Compare that to how Yahoo News credits it, as linked by your parent:

"By Maria Sudekum, Associated Press | Associated Press -- Sun, Jan 13, 2013"

Chattanooga EPB

[Anonymous Coward]

Chattanooga's EPB has been doing this for several years now. They offer Gigabit internet service to all of their electric power customers. They have also been providing fiber to businesses for even longer.

Lowest residential service available is now 50Mb symmetric.

https://www.epbfi.com The fibers are awesome!

 

When can we stop?

[auximage77]

When can we stop posting all this PR /crap/ about Kansas City and Google Fiber? Surely Google has plenty of money to advertise what they're doing. There are countless other cities out there that are doing the same thing, even BEFORE Google got out of the gate but you don't see those mentioned here on /.? Why's that? Is it maybe because the word Chattanooga doesn't draw eyeballs like Google does? For reference: http://www.thegigcity.com/geekmove/

Not really buying it

[sunking2]

If the cost of high speed internet is what's keeping you from getting started then you have a pretty weak business model. Compared to salaries and the myriad of other overhead costs decently priced internet are hardly the main concern.

I wish the city of Phoenix would understand this.

[Anonymous Coward]

Morons.

Please succeed! (at least initially)

[jrmcc]

I have a house to sell south of KCKS and I need the market to heat up there. It's really not a bad place to live if you're OK with nothing but horizon on horizon...

Re:Can you run a business server on this connectio

[Anonymous Coward]

True, the TOS does prohibit running servers. But I don't think that rule will be around for very long. They will let violations go for awhile and see if it interferes with service. Larry Page has stated in an all-hands meeting (multiple times) that he is opposed to that rule, saying that if Stanford had such a rule Google would probably never have gotten off the ground. Larry probably just wants the fiber group to get comfortable in their work before imposing changes from above.

Kansas City:Better Than You Think.

[Serra]

I grew up in KC, went to collage at RPI in New York and spent some time working in Boston. I've done a lot of traveling both inside and outside the U.S. and I think Kansas City gets a bum rap.

Many people from the coasts have such bias against KC (and all the other cities in "fly-over" country), but it is actually a pretty hip city. I've eaten some of the best food of my life here and here. The Chicago Tribune recently called Kansas City "America's Next Great Cocktail City. We have tons of fine art theaters, including the new Kauffman Center which is considered one of the most technically advanced performance halls in the nation. The lack of traffic and great roads make it easy to get around. I go out far on the town far more often than when I lived near Boston.

Kansas City also has one of the best academic medical centers in the country and is also one of the highest ranking cities for smart phone app creation. It is consistently ranked on of the most affordable places to live among .

Sure, the rural parts of Missouri and Kansas tend to be a bit bible-belt backward, as they are everywhere in the country, but Kansas City and it's surrounding suburbs are decidedly more liberal. It is great place to live and I'm tired of people who haven't lived here recently, much less visited saying otherwise. If you have a knee-jerk negative reaction when you hear the name Kansas City, then maybe you aren't as open minded as you could be.

No beach. No mountains.

[Anonymous Coward]

Boring.

Re:Can you run a business server on this connectio

[lionchild]

Inquiries to Google about Business being allowed to connect to Google Fiber have been rejected. They are simply not offering their services to Business clients at this time. That doesn't tell us why, but does say that they pretty much don't want you running a business server on the connection. Your MS Home Server, that's likely a different matter.

Privacy...

[tlambert]

ahem, folks. its google fiber. how much privacy can you expect when THE company who wants to know 'all your shit' is the one laying and managing the network?

its bad enough that data passes thru google when you USE google. its horrible for a company that wants privacy and security (ie, startups) if ALL your data MUST pass thru google's wires.

is no one thinking of that? it would be like renting wires from the NSA. you think that would be a great idea, do you?

By "renting wires from the NSA", you are referring to Room 641A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A which all your data goes through and actually is monitored by the NSA when you rent your wires from AT&T instead of renting them from Google, right?

Get over it! They know when you are sleeping, they know when you're awake, they know if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake! Or be bad. Practically they don't give a crap, for the most part.

Sprint HQ near Kansas City

[billstewart]

Topeka's way out in the middle of nowhere.

"Kansas City" mostly means Kansas City Missouri, as well as the adjacent Kansas City Kansas and sprawl of suburbs. Sprint is in Overland Park, KS, a suburb about 10 miles west of downtown. Downtown KCMO is a pretty decent city - go visit the Plaza area or the university.