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Belgian Consumer Organization Sues Apple For Not Respecting Warranty Law
New submitter thygate writes with news of more trouble for Apple with its warranty terms complying with E.U. regulations. From the press release: "For many years warranty issues are at the top of the charts of complaints dealt with by consumer organizations. One of the recurring problems are the complaints about Apple. 'Test-Aankoop/Test-Achats' found major problems fixed on the information provided by Apple and its authorized distributors regarding the legal guarantee, the commercial one year warranty, and the warranty extension through the 'AppleCare Protection Plan' of 2 or 3 years. A lawsuit against Apple has been filed (English translation; original)) with the Commercial Court of Brussels. In a precedent in Italy, The commercial practices of Apple were found to be misleading. Apple was sentenced to pay € 900,000 and was obliged to change their contractual legal warranty and guarantees to consumers."
In Brussels, from an Italian court? I thought the EU countries (except England, which is still Common Law) were civil law jurisdictions, which don't recognize stare decisis (i.e., no "precedent" from prior decisions)...?
geek. lawyer.
I hardly think that Apple was obliged to change anything. Probably obligated, but not obliged.
for his iPad. Kept it in a heavy duty switcheasy cover and everything. One day, in front of my eyes, he opened the cover, set the iPad sideways down on the inside of the cover's padded surface, and a huge crack occured, running the length of the screen. Luckily it was only on the black bezel, so it didn't impact use at first after putting duct tape over it to protect the fingers.
The entire machine was mint, no scratches, no dings on the side, since it was in a case in it's entire life, the crack itself was some long weird trench that imploded. It was apparent that it wasn't some outside force, no center impact spot nor spiderwebbing outwards.
Even with Apple Care, Apple wouldn't replace it other than to say it would cost $250 to replace it with same model. Which is kinda ridiculous. The screen worked, it was just the digitizer that I found out later costs $60 on iFixit.
Applecare may have been worth it for past notebooks but not anything else. Most other venders extended warranties attempt to provide some value for the money. The current line of notebooks in the office seem solid, back in the mid-00s, it seemed some Powerbook would blow their motherboard every so often, and some 2-3 times in a row.
See http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2011/01/apple-stores-warranty-approach-contradicts-australian-consumer-law/ for more detail.
I'm a fruit pirate. I bought a watermelon once, and spat the seeds in the back yard. They grew into another watermelon,
And Apple will still have benefited from the whole thing if they keep getting only a small fines like the € 900,000.
At about 1205000, assuming say a lowball 100 bucks in average repair costs (parts and labor for Apple), that only equals about the cost of 12000 devices. Surely, there was more returns then that meaning they actually saved money. Add in getting extra money for their AppleCare and really, is there any reason why not to break the law when they come out on top even if caught?
All Apple has to do is build in the price of AppleCare into every new purchase. That's all. Like everyone else who sells stuff in the EU - the extended warranty price is built into the price EU customers pay. Just like sales taxes and other stuff needed to comply. It just becomes another reason why US prices are "lower" than EU prices.
Though, there is a *slight* difference between AppleCare and just a bog-standard warranty - since AppleCare offers support as well (you get 90 days of phone support standard, it extends to the full AppleCare period if you buy it).
Perhaps Apple will just offer an "AppleCare lite" for the EU that extends support and all that extra stuff it gives other than a warranty.
Though, the easiest way though is to just scrap AppleCare in the EU, and say all Apple products sold in the EU come with a standard 2 year AppleCare built in and adjust the prices accordingly. Or if the law says 3 years, then the 3 year AppleCare price gets built in. Or 5 years, or whatever.
Would there be any reasonable reason otherwise? I mean, instead of trying to convince probably 10% of people to buy it, just build it in so 100% of people get it and comply with the law at the same time.
A summary that merely states that Apple has a warranty, and that Apple is misleading customers.
OK, fine, but... how is Apple misleading customers? Neither the summary, nor the linked article give any clue.
-- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
Before Apple does what it should have done from the start and changes its warranty document to mention 2 years as required by European law?
For example, the court in Brussels could reasonably decide that Apple has been made aware of the European warranty requirements after the court decision in Italy and that its more recent neglect in updating its documentation is a willful violation of what it is required to do by law in Europe and thus the penalties will be somewhat more harsh.
Far more importantly; I feel they do not respect:
1. Environmental laws
2. Fair use doctrine on copyright laws
3. The spirit of the patent laws
4. Competing in the markets instead of crushing competition in the courts law
etc.
Those laws are more valuable to prospective buyers. Warranty laws affect only those who have already been suckered into buying Apple's products. Thankfully, even though large, they are still a microscopic minority compared to the rest of us.
This is the same group of bright sparks that has forced insurers to charge the same premiums for males and females for all types of insurance (motor, life, pension, etc), despite clear statistical evidence to the contrary, which ultimately leads to higher prices for everybody in the EU who buys insurance (as it is then not possible to actually price for the actual underlying risk, so insurers take higher margins to compensate). However right or wrong they may be in the Apple case, Test-Achats has not shown overwhelming evidence of intelligence in the past, but large doses of dogmatism instead.
We're the telephone company Apple !!
(Snort)
Apple fans always bang on about how Apple stores go the extra mile to fix problems and replace broken products. Customer care is always pushed as a big plus and one of the justifications for the 'premium' cost of the products.
Are they lying? Or have the courts got it wrong?
An unexpected move from apple..
No, American companies are too ignorant to respect the local laws. If they sell millions of devices they are 'reminded' by a court ruling with a ridiculously small fine (given the extent of the infringement) and get a chance to correct their behaviour. Often they fail to do so and end up paying huge fines.
On the other side, American companies see the Europeans as cash cows. What costs 500USD in the US often costs 500EUR=670USD in the Euro zone and often comes to the market later.
You have not the slightest idea of the concept of insurance but yet you try to explain it.
Insurance is not a social safety net. Insurance is based on personal risk.
Forcing people who are not living on flood plains to buy flood insurance so the premiums of those people living in risky areas has nothing to do with the concept of insurance. It's a subsidy for taking flood risk.
Why don't you at least look up Wikipedia. You and the people who modded this Insightful.
This article is not based on any court papers that this Belgian consumer organization filed, but just on a press release! Since it is just a press release, they can add all the fluffy bits, like confusing "warranty" and "statutory rights", calling a case in Italy "precedent" when it is no such thing, and so on.
And of course there will be tons of complaints about Apple's handling of warranties, because any bloody idiot dropping his iPhone into the toilet wants a free replacement from Apple and complains when they don't get one. (And insurers have found that the number of "accidentally" damaged iPhones more than doubles when a new model is released)
In some countries (your mileage may vary) there is an implied statutory warranty that the product will operate properly for the reasonable lifetime of the product. This is ADDITIONAL TO the express manufacturer's warranty. It doesn't cover wear and tear and obviously doesn't cover abuse either, but does mean the product must function properly and do what it is supposed to do. If it doesn't, you are entitled to a remedy: a refund, replacement, etc., to be mutually agreed between you and the seller.
Most consumers are ignorant of their statutory warranty rights, so when a manufacturer provides a 12 month warranty consumers think if it breaks a day after that they aren't covered. Not true, though they may have to approach the manufacturer directly instead of the retailer. Another is that when a manufacturer advertises "a lifetime warranty" you already have one by law anyway, so they are only telling you what they have to give you anyway. And finally it means that Extended Warranties are usually a complete waste of money: They are getting you to pay for a right you already have by law anyway.
Again, your mileage may vary. Talk to your local consumer affairs bureau to find your local rules. Be warned that retailers can be real pricks about warranties , and sometimes consumer affairs will need to come in with a baseball bat and remind them if your statutory rights. Manufacturers would prefer it if you didn't know any of this. Also sometimes a manufacturer will insist you pay for return shipping or drop off at your own expense. Check your local laws: they might be obliged to pick up the cost or do this for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Commercial_Code Implied Warranties US
http://www.apple.com/au/legal/statutory-warranty/ Statutory Warranties AU
http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=84941 Statutory Warranties AU
http://www.consumerlaw.gov.au/content/the_acl/downloads/consumer_guarantees_guide.pdf Most Recent Laws AU
http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonight/consumer/article/-/9803967/worthless-warranties/ Extended Warranty
One bonus tip for reading this far: Merchants often trick people into accepting warranties with clauses waiving your statutory rights, no returns signs and the like. It often works by dissuading from trying, but if it goes to a small claims court the judge will draw a big line through them.
The USA DEFINITELY AND KNOWINGLY ignore international law.
Germany still wants some US forces people to come to Germany to give evidence in a death. Not face court charged, but to give evidence.
USA got them back on base and shifted them back to the USA and refuse to let the German court summon them.
This is a story about Apple being in the wrong and punished.
Therefore there MUST be something sinister and wrong going on, because Apple are loveley smoochy bunnies and love all their customers, every one.
You may be hearing echoes of "Mom" from Momcorp in reading the above. It is not a co-incidence...
1. Not a different legal system. Belgium and Italian law operate the same way.
2. Both part of the EU
3. Based on implementations of the same EU Directive.
But this is something that says "Apple is in the wrong" and MUST be silenced. Pathetic.
Therefore if the manufacturer doesn't know that the product is supposed to be covered by a 2 year or whatever warranty, then they are guilty of FRAUD.
National Insurance: 9% paid out of the paypacket of everyone (salaries between ~6000 and ~30000).
Pays for National Health and Welfare.
Social Security in the USA does the same thing.
If insurance was solely risk, then house insurance would be miniscule since very few houses need claims on them.
And if the insurer were doing their sums correctly, you'd be better off (by the cut of the insurance industry: they don't work for free, you know) putting the money to one side and when you do need to claim, getting it from your savings, which would more than cover your costs.
Apples commercial practices are misleading?!?! Next you'll be telling me they didn't invent the MP3 player, my mind is blown!
The EU has remedies that protect the majority, the US that protect the minority. Broken almost 2 year old phone? Your better of in the EU where the 2 year BTW is a MINIMUM. For a washing machine, you can expect free repairs for the entire economic life of the device if it is reasonable to expect that it should last longer. Cars for instance have far long warranties mandated by law because a car is expected to last at least 10 years.
In the US you are better off because you can sue if you sustain serious harm... of course, in the US you ALSO pay for your doctor needing to pay for massive malpractice insurance.
It would certainly help if for instance the Dutch system allowed multi-miljoen dollar judgements, we are having a current case with a horror doctor where it has become clear that the institution supposed to regulate doctors failed completely and might even have outright conspired with the person that if he just left Holland and went to Germany to continue to subject patients to unethical treatment, they wouldn't try to stop him. A few millions awarded by the courts might... oh wait... that isn't how it works is it. The US is NOT a place nobody makes mistakes or is corrupt, instead all the lawsuits do is force doctors to cover every case, do every test regardless of cost because if they don't they are sued out of business. It is the SUE happy culture of the US that is the major reason its healthcare costs are so high.
The real world is sadly to complex to say Y is better then X. Both the EU and the US got their massive downsides on this subject and in reality all you can do is hope IT doesn't happen to YOU or anyone you care about.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
And the only reason for that was because the price of gold was going up.
That's right, more than 50 years later and FINALLY, your mercenaries were paid.
Oh, but you DID keep several things
a) the international currency
b) patents on computers
c) almost all your cities intact
But thanks for obliquely admitting that you are just paid thugs.