Samsung Amps Up Its Multi-Window Android Upgrade

Man, my head is reeling by crazyjj · 2013-01-24 07:56 · Score: 5, Funny

First, I find out last night that Attack of the Show was just Leo Laporte's bad dream all along, and now this. But I do love the delightful irony* of desktop OS maker Microsoft moving AWAY from the windows, building a more tablet/phone-oriented OS for desktops with Windows 8--at the same time as tablet/phone maker Samsung is moving TOWARDS the windows, building a more desktop-oriented OS for its tablets and phones with this. You can't make this shit up.

* And before any of you grammar Nazi's start soiling your panties, yes, I am damned well familiar with the *classic* definition of "irony." So the first one of you pretentious pedagogues who feels the need to show everyone how big your intellectual dick is by pointing out that classic irony is more akin to what we generally call "sarcasm" today is going to get a visit from me tonight. And I've got diarrhea and a strong desire to leave a double-decker in every toilet in your house.

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What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?

Re:Man, my head is reeling by drinkypoo · 2013-01-24 08:01 · Score: 4, Funny

And before any of you grammar Nazi's start soiling your panties
You only get to use the apostrophe if you capitalize Nazi.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Man, my head is reeling by stevedog · 2013-01-24 08:04 · Score: 2

Ironically, you used irony correctly the first time.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by timeOday · 2013-01-24 08:08 · Score: 1

Perhaps both are suitable for different devices or different people? The 1280x800 screen on the Galaxy Note is more than most PC's had throughout the 90's and into the mid 00's, and those always had overlapping windows. The original iPhone had a 480x320 screen, so you could tile 4 of those onto today's screens with room to spare.
Anyways it's just a software change and can probably be turned off if it sucks.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by oodaloop · 2013-01-24 08:09 · Score: 5, Funny

Exactly. It's like rain on your wedding day.

--
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by stevedog · 2013-01-24 08:11 · Score: 1

Also, I realized afterwards that my reply sounded snarky, and I apologize for that. I only meant that you needn't be so angry, since you dedicated half your post to a protest against something that hadn't happened yet. Just let the assholes be assholes; you don't even have to give them the honor of a response, let alone a preemption.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 08:15 · Score: 0

[...] is going to get a visit from me tonight. And I've got diarrhea and a strong desire to leave a double-decker in every toilet in your house.
Technically, that would make your name "delusionaljj", not "crazyjj".
Re:Man, my head is reeling by crazyjj · 2013-01-24 08:18 · Score: 1

Does hearing voices in my head telling me that Tom Cruise is one day going to cause nuclear armageddon make me delusional or crazy?

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What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
Re:Man, my head is reeling by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 08:22 · Score: 2, Funny

Or, more relevant to Slashdot readers, it's like meeting the girl of your dreams, and then meeting her handsome husband.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by Known+Nutter · 2013-01-24 08:23 · Score: 2, Informative

And I've got diarrhea and a strong desire to leave a double-decker in every toilet in your house.
For what it's worth, the term you're looking for is Upper Decker.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Upper+Decker

--
Beware of the Leopard.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by Mike+Buddha · 2013-01-24 08:25 · Score: 0

And I've got diarrhea and a strong desire to leave a double-decker in every toilet in your house.
That's an upper-decker, not a double-decker, you jerk.

--
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by gstoddart · 2013-01-24 08:33 · Score: 1

Not as long as it's plural, which "grammar Nazis" is. /End Pedantry

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Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 08:33 · Score: 0

It's "Upper Decker" not "Double Decker".
idiot.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by wolfsdaughter · 2013-01-24 08:36 · Score: 4, Funny

No, it's meeting the girl of your dreams and then meeting her beautiful wife

--
"Are they made from real Girl Scouts?" ~Wednesday Addams
Re:Man, my head is reeling by AbRASiON · 2013-01-24 08:37 · Score: 1

Your post is bang on.
About irony that is, I honestly don't know the definition anymore, it's so fucking difficult to identify the correct use of it.
It seems to be used in place of hypocrisy, sarcasm and coincidence at this point.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by MatrixCubed · 2013-01-24 08:40 · Score: 1

Or if you happen to sell groceries.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 08:47 · Score: 0

And I've got diarrhea and a strong desire to leave a double-decker in every toilet in your house.
That's an upper-decker, not a double-decker, you jerk.
as you would expect from coarse slang, either term is known to represent the same thing. check it out, it's on the internet.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by cheater512 · 2013-01-24 08:51 · Score: 1

Yeah but Windows 8 is for computers with 1080p or larger displays. It is still very curious.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by crazyjj · 2013-01-24 08:53 · Score: 4, Funny

Nope, I'm leaving it in top and bottom.

--
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
Re:Man, my head is reeling by blind+biker · 2013-01-24 09:02 · Score: 0

And before any of you grammar Nazi's start soiling your panties
Incorrect use of the apostrophe: pluralizations don't need it, contractions and possessives do.

--
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 09:07 · Score: 0

No, a double-decker uses both tanks!
Re:Man, my head is reeling by drinkypoo · 2013-01-24 09:14 · Score: 1

NAZI is a backronym, Nazi is a phonetic spelling, the former gets the apostrophe and the latter doesn't.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re: Man, my head is reeling by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 09:30 · Score: 0

You don't add apostrophes for pluralization (eg bananas is not banana's). Please provide evidence to this supposed standard that encourages poor use of apostrophes - I use the Macquarie Style Guide as my reference.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by SCPaPaJoe · 2013-01-24 09:43 · Score: 1

I believe you should have typed "upper-decker".
Re:Man, my head is reeling by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 09:43 · Score: 0

Does hearing voices in my head telling me that Tom Cruise is one day going to cause nuclear armageddon make me delusional or crazy?
You are perfectly sane. What you are hearing is a modulated tachyon beam sent from the future as a warning. Please spread this warning to all of humanity.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by crazyjj · 2013-01-24 09:47 · Score: 1

Not when you're aiming for both decks.

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What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
Re:Man, my head is reeling by crazyjj · 2013-01-24 09:48 · Score: 1

I'm saving up a Triple Decker for you. That's tank, bowl, and the bathtub.

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What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
Re:Man, my head is reeling by viperidaenz · 2013-01-24 09:50 · Score: 4, Funny

Isn't that part of the fantasy?
Re:Man, my head is reeling by viperidaenz · 2013-01-24 09:54 · Score: 1

check it out, it's on the internet.
Not something I'd like rule 34 to not apply.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by oodaloop · 2013-01-24 12:27 · Score: 1

Which further adds to the irony.

--
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by vivian · 2013-01-24 12:36 · Score: 2

Seriously, whats wrong with you people? What kind of twisted mind comes up with this stuff in the first place?
Re:Man, my head is reeling by Clueless+Moron · 2013-01-24 12:36 · Score: 1

Except it's a possessive. Consider the original misunderstood phrase: " And before any of you grammar Nazi's start soiling your panties"
Let me annotate and complete it:

And before any of you [[grammar Nazi's start] soiling your panties] get upset, just relax and have a beer
Which means:

And before any of you pant-shitting grammar Nazis get upset, just relax and have a beer.
See?
Re:Man, my head is reeling by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 12:38 · Score: 0

it's definitely not reality
Re:Man, my head is reeling by drinkypoo · 2013-01-24 13:10 · Score: 0

Except it's a possessive
Nice troll, but I read your nickname before hitting submit.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Man, my head is reeling by symbolset · 2013-01-24 13:59 · Score: 1

The resolution on the Samsung Nexus 10 is 2560 x 1600. No doubt this feature will be useful when they do an own-brand product spin of it.

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Help stamp out iliturcy.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 15:32 · Score: 0

I don't see the irony of a threesome.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by timeOday · 2013-01-24 15:59 · Score: 1

Wow, that is just making me angry about stagnation on the desktop. I have some 30" dell monitors from years ago at that resolution and I know of nothing better, still. And the docking station for my brand-new Dell laptop CANNOT even drive them at full resolution over DVI (DisplayPort only) without a $50 DisplayPort->DVI adapter. As if 5 or 7 year old tech were cutting edge.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by Hognoxious · 2013-01-24 18:33 · Score: 1

It is a contraction. The original word, which is short by German standards, is Nationalsocialisten-polenuberfallen-nobodyisgoingtoreadthisfarsoilljustmakeitup-party.
Though as is often the case (e.g. fridge, phone) it has become recognised as a word in its own right.

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Re: Man, my head is reeling by Paradise+Pete · 2013-01-24 19:10 · Score: 1

You don't add apostrophes for pluralization
But if I had only a single apostrophe wouldn't I have to add an apostrophe to make it plural?
Re:Man, my head is reeling by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 19:23 · Score: 0

Are you poo-pooing their conversation?
Re:Man, my head is reeling by Sique · 2013-01-24 20:22 · Score: 1

I beg to differ. I was using 1280x1024 in 1991, and in 1999 I bought a CRT monitor which could display 1600x1200, which I was using until the CRT broke about 10 years later.

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.sig: Sique *sigh*
Re:Man, my head is reeling by timeOday · 2013-01-25 03:47 · Score: 1

Hey, I said "most." I had 2 of those 21" monsters on my desktop.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-25 05:39 · Score: 0

Or meeting the girl of your dreams, and then discovering your debit card expired last month ...
Re:Man, my head is reeling by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-25 08:36 · Score: 0

Nice troll, but I read your nickname before hitting submit.
You may think you've been trolled, but he's correct .. the apostrophe-ess is used for contractions, and for possessive, not plural. There's one or two corner cases where you'd ever use an apostrophe for a plural, and that's more for single letters "mind you're p's and q's". An acronym doesn't trigger an apostrophe when pluralizing, unless the acronym has punctuation in it.
It's Friday. That's Bob's car. Les' sister is cute.
You're certain you're right, but you're wrong. As used, Nazi was a noun, and pluralized -- and make no mistake about it, Nazi has been a noun for 80 years even if you think it's a "backronym".
The grammar Nazi's going to tell you how to use the plural of the word Nazis.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-25 15:02 · Score: 0

Or meeting the girl of your dreams, and then finding out she is actually the man of your dreams....
Re:Man, my head is reeling by Duckimus+Prime · 2013-01-25 18:07 · Score: 1

But the GP was claiming that the usage of Grammar Nazi's in the OP was a possessive. You've told drinkypoo their wrong... and then proceeded to agree with him.
drinkypoo may have been wrong about the usage of apostrophe's in acronym's, its only really allowed when acronym's still contain the periods between each letter. eg multiple F.B.I's.
drinkypoo is also incorrect about claiming that Nazi is a backronym.
Re:Man, my head is reeling by drinkypoo · 2013-01-26 07:55 · Score: 1

drinkypoo is also incorrect about claiming that Nazi is a backronym.
Congratulations on your massive failure, would you like to offer me fries with that? I said NAZI is a backronym (which it is) but not that Nazi is. This is news for nerds, you are expected to understand that capitalization is important.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

I like this option. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 08:00 · Score: 0

This is much needed if Android ever wants to branch into the market for people you actually like to DO things, rather than just CONSUME things. I approve, but I wouldn't like to see this on every device - only larger and more powerful devices where it makes sense, of course.

Re:I like this option. by Fri13 · 2013-01-24 08:28 · Score: 0

It does work well on 10" tablet where you can see two/tree smartphone size/ratio screen.
But really... how about after all doing a tablet version of software?
How about improving the data swapping between running apps?
What if Android would get something so powerful for GUI apps as what pipe is for Unix shell?
That was what I have hoped from many times as I love using KDE because I can just dran and drop files from other KDE applications without going trough "open/save".
Like I have a open dialog open in words and I notice I need to burn a few files to DVD+RW. I place disk to drive, click "K3b" option and I simply drag files from that open dialog to K3b. Or I can just Ctrl+Click to select files and right click and select "burn to disk" (okay, maybe not anymore the latter one as they limited the open dialog functions, but it use to be so).
I want to take content and modify it with other tool. Like I have file manager open or image viewer and I can just drag'n'drop image files either one to words or to instant messenger or even add them to existing ZIP file.
When do we get a change to drag'n'drop content from app itself without saving it between, to other tool? Like dragging the application icon on window decoration to mark "I want the content as it is open in this window/app, to be copied to this window/application".
It is so funny that sometimes I am watching random Star Trek TNG episodes and they don't ever do any backups. They even can delete some of the files with voice commands and then still cancel the action after few seconds.
That is something what makes Unix systems so awesome to use with files as you just "push" them where and how you like them.
I don't even know can you share content between Modern apps in Windows 8 what are splitting the screen? Like take a song from music player and drag it to other Modern app?

big button by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 08:02 · Score: 0

Do I rather to see the 4 inch by 4 inch box on my weather temperature app that shows "-25 C"?

Re:big button by Fri13 · 2013-01-24 08:29 · Score: 1

I think 2 inch by 2 inch or 2 inch by 4 inch is just fine.... If you like, you could get a nice sun and cloud on it as well?
Re:big button by Anne+Thwacks · 2013-01-24 09:34 · Score: 1

Does Google Navigation describe your current location as "Hell"?

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Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII

Oh, good. by Fallingcow · 2013-01-24 08:02 · Score: 4, Informative

Awesome. More shit that can cause your app work on one Android tablet and not on another. Because there wasn't enough of that already.

Re:Oh, good. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 08:15 · Score: 0

How is a 1280x720 tablet not 2 720x640 phones side by side? I'm pretty sure that's what this system is emulating.
Captcha: Misleads... yeah exacty!
Re:Oh, good. by RobbieCrash · 2013-01-24 08:19 · Score: 1

Looks like the apps need to be multi-window enabled to use this, so probably not.

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Keep on knockin'
https://robbiecrash.me
Re:Oh, good. by StripedCow · 2013-01-24 08:25 · Score: 1

Indeed. Didn't they learn ANYTHING from Apple?

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If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
Re:Oh, good. by Andy+Dodd · 2013-01-24 08:46 · Score: 4, Interesting

This is why CyanogenMod didn't implement Cornerstone. It's also why Samsung's multiwindow isn't worth all the hype it has been given:
It only supports Samsung-customized Google Apps, a bunch of Samsung's own apps, and 1-2 third-party apps. Anything not in the multiwindow whitelist is blocked from multiwindow.
Why? Because multiwindow fundamentally breaks the Android CTS and thus any app that is enabled for it must be "opt-in" at the discretion of the developer. If Samsung were to do this for all applications without a whitelist or apps "opting in" via a manifest entry, they would be blocked from the Play Store. Google treats devices breaking apps in the Play Store VERY seriously - When CyanogenMod was considering Cornerstone, they were effectively told that if some sort of "opt-in" mechanism weren't present, Google would be forced to blacklist CM. It's the same reason CM never merged in Paranoid Android's per-app DPI stuff... Google was VERY unhappy about that.
The reason being: If an app developer gets 1-star reviews due to a device behaving badly, that device is probably going to be blacklisted from the Play Store if the app runs fine on any device the passes Google's CTS.

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retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Re: Oh, good. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 09:47 · Score: 0

modified roms let you dual screen any app
Re:Oh, good. by AmiMoJo · 2013-01-24 09:58 · Score: 1

What you say is true, but the feature is still very useful. For example I can browse and make notes in ColorNote, or have the Messenger app open too. I can look at messages when they come in without having to pause and close the video I am watching.
I imagine Android will implement this in a future version now it has proven popular. That sort of thing happens a lot with Android, and is one of its strengths. Manufacturers can try things out, natural selection picks the best features and Google brings them in to the trunk.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:Oh, good. by CharlieMurphy · 2013-01-24 11:04 · Score: 1

Most android apps scale to different screen/window sizes without issue, unlike ios where everything is hardcoded to particular resolutions. I use a modified rom on my galaxy phone which allows me to split window any app and its great - I havent found an application that doesnt work perfectly with it.
Re:Oh, good. by shutdown+-p+now · 2013-01-24 11:06 · Score: 3, Insightful

The feature is nevertheless something that Android sorely needs if it wants to expand from plain tablets to Win8-style convertibles and laptops. Samsung did it because Google did not. I don't know how well Samsung APIs are designed; if they're good enough, Google should just take them and merge them into the main Android branch, and be done with it. If not, they should design something of their own, but do it now, before we have half a dozen incompatible windowing systems.
Re:Oh, good. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 11:47 · Score: 1

In my opinion, Samsung made a UI mistake in the dual-app support: touching the non-focused app actives it -AND- also registers a touch in that app. That's a serious UI mistake because it doesn't play nice with apps that are button-dense or otherwise touch-sensitive, since you have to find some "non-reactive" place to touch the app to switch to it. Likewise, the hardware buttons (especially the standard "home", "menu", "back" and "search" buttons) send their input to the active app, so you're SOL if you just want to use one of those without touching into the non-focused app.
I don't want any more hardware buttons on the phone (e.g. the volume button is already very difficult to avoid accidentally hitting), so I'd suggest that touching the non-focused app should just change the UI focus, cause haptic feedback vibration, and start a 0.5 second lockout (user-configurable) to avoid accidental button presses.
Re:Oh, good. by stephanruby · 2013-01-24 12:49 · Score: 1

Unless you write in your manifest that your app supports the multi-window feature, this shouldn't affect you in the least.
Re:Oh, good. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 13:00 · Score: 0

Why must tech company's pander to the lowest common denominator of users. How stupid do you have to be.
A simple message that says experimental, may cause apps to behave funny would surfice.
I have a note to running a hacked multiwindow app that can be used with ANY app. I have yet to find an app that it doesn't work with.
But if I did, I know not to blame the app developer because I was told from the get go this might happen.
It's not complicated, Googles excuse is Bullshit. A simple disclaimer would solve all these problems
Re:Oh, good. by Rich0 · 2013-01-25 01:43 · Score: 1

When CyanogenMod was considering Cornerstone, they were effectively told that if some sort of "opt-in" mechanism weren't present, Google would be forced to blacklist CM.
Uh, how exactly would they do that? The only way to get the Play Store on a CM device is to download it from somebody who is illegally distributing it. It isn't like Google is supporting them in any way. If they build some kind of black-list into the store it could just be patched out, or the OS could just lie to the store app about its identity.
While I prefer that CM stay reasonably close to vanilla Android one of the things that bothers me about it is that it really isn't all that independent. They won't even let you block app permissions except in a way that is virtually guaranteed to break apps (which I think was mainly a way to get people to stop asking for the feature).
Re: Oh, good. by jp10558 · 2013-01-25 05:31 · Score: 1

And why not? Why isn't this a window manager issue? I mean, do linux apps really need special code to handle being in a window or full screen?

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Opera, Proxomitron-Grypen,GPG 0x0A1C6EE3
Re:Oh, good. by jseale · 2013-01-25 09:11 · Score: 1

Why Google didn't trump Samsung and pony up a Nexus tablet with this feature is beyond me. They're going to get their lunch eaten the same way Apple did because of this, and then where would Samsung and all the other Android phone and tablet makers be?
Re:Oh, good. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-25 21:29 · Score: 0

My thoughts exactly... Google had a meeting on the subject... Google: "Many developers complain the Android tablet market is too fragmented to put any serious development time and effort into it, What should we do to fix this? Well It deosn't get any more fragmented than having an open OS that is different on every tablet/smartphone out there... Now if Google is moving toward Samsungs way of thinking and push other android device makers the same way? Developers will have much less fragmentation to worry about. Myself? having developed a few applcations for the Android and iTunes markets, The Android tablet market has become a bit less fragmented with standard 7" and 10.1" screens and only the really cheap ones have hardware issues.. But like my momma always says, you get what you pay for...
Re:Oh, good. by Patch86 · 2013-01-25 22:48 · Score: 1

Google isn't in competition with Samsung. Google wants Android-branded devices (with all the services that entails) in as many pockets and in front of as many eyes as possible. If Samsung find a way of selling more phones (without breaking Android), all the better.
I don't know what the licensing situation is with Samsung Multi-Window, but assuming that it is open-source then there's no reason why Google couldn't accept it upstream, or their rivals couldn't adopt it as a sideways patch. And no reason Google couldn't implement their own official version in the future- there's no great benefit to being first to market in this situation.
Re:Oh, good. by Andy+Dodd · 2013-01-29 05:43 · Score: 1

Samsung's APIs are usually shit. You wouldn't believe the horrific rottenness one finds when you start digging through their implementations of Android...
There was a company (Onskreen) working on a multiwindow implementation (Cornerstone) long before Samsung pushed this out. It was killed for a variety of reasons, the primary being application compatibility issues.

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retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Re:Oh, good. by Andy+Dodd · 2013-01-29 05:49 · Score: 1

Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. Users are stupid. CM could put all the disclaimers it wants - if Cornerstone caused app breakage, users would leave unfair 1-star reviews on the Play Store.

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retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?

Sorry by Chrisq · 2013-01-24 08:11 · Score: 4, Funny

This ia an Android thread, not iOs

Re:Sorry by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-25 04:28 · Score: 0

Typed on an Android on screen keyboard I wager?

That forking android... by gestalt_n_pepper · 2013-01-24 08:12 · Score: 4, Funny

it's turning into Windows. Fork that!

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Please do not read this sig. Thank you.

History rewrite time.. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 08:15 · Score: 5, Informative

You've got to love how having multi-window capability is being "MS Windows-like", according to the submitter. I guess we have a bit of computer history to rewrite again...

Re:History rewrite time.. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 09:47 · Score: 1

It's easier than saying "Xerox PARC-esque"
Re:History rewrite time.. by gentryx · 2013-01-24 10:57 · Score: 1

Amen. I just came here to say that. Thank you!

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Computer simulation made easy -- LibGeoDecomp
Re:History rewrite time.. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 15:27 · Score: 0

We learned in DOS that you need to do more than one thing at a time.
Geez how could they not learn that.
Re:History rewrite time.. by spitzak · 2013-01-24 16:23 · Score: 1

Or "Apollo-Domain-Like".
Re:History rewrite time.. by Maxx169 · 2013-01-24 21:08 · Score: 1

Terminate and stay resident programs were almost like multitasking... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminate_and_Stay_Resident
Re:History rewrite time.. by Patch86 · 2013-01-25 23:04 · Score: 1

Especially considering that the latest MS Windows has taken a big step towards non-windowing UIs. I know Windows 8 still does windowing in the "desktop" mode, but the flagship Metro mode (with all the shiny apps and widgets) deliberately prevents it.
That means that Apple Mac OSX (not to mention KDE, Unity, XFCE, etc.) are now more purely "window" based than Windows. Which in Apple's case is a nice return to history.

The Burning Platform by imyller · 2013-01-24 08:15 · Score: 1

I, for one, welcome our new Android fragmentation overlords.

Re:The Burning Platform by BasilBrush · 2013-01-24 14:12 · Score: 0

Quite. And the excuse:
"Android device makers, and the wireless carriers who offer Android smartphones to their customers, need ways to differentiate their products.'
That's one of the main reasons for the failure of Symbian. Every manufacturer said they needed to differentiate the software on their phone. And when asked why they blamed the carriers. As a result Symbian never got a standard UI. Everyone was pulling in different directions, and incompatibility was everywhere.
Apple manages to make carriers settle for a standard UI.
Re:The Burning Platform by FatRichie · 2013-01-25 06:13 · Score: 1

Yeah, I don't like this excuse either. From a consumer side, I like being able to go an pick my Android phone based on hardware. If I have to start mixing an matching hardware and OS features, I'm going to end up eventually frustrated that the combination I want doesn't exist anymore, or just that it will take a long time to find the combo I want ... because the phone store employees aren't going to understand the variations. Dammit, I like being a lazy consumer!!!

Hope for reintegration by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 08:16 · Score: 0

I would love for this to be added in to the base Android OS. It is such a dream and is fluid as hell.
It reminds me of tiling window managers, which are so handy if you hate messing around with window placement and Actually Want To Get Stuff Done.
But it also has classic window management too.

Come on Samsung and Android devs, work together to bring this to everyone.
Yes, take your time if it means getting more people to get your tablet over others, but allowing everyone to work with this would be great.
Obviously some things won't across to some systems easily, such as pen interaction with the secondary button.
This feature actually makes Android feel more like an actual OS instead of some baby OS that forces fullscreen on you.
Shame on devs who don't make scalable apps anyway, you and your app sucks, get good.
Not to mention those that force a certain orientation on you, holy hell that annoys me. Toolbars can be made to scroll if they are too small, even forced in to a menu if it gets small enough (but that won't happen, that is just over-optimization)
I've already used a pretty decent VNC app that does the above, but it still has an odd bug where it moves the mouse down when it loses focus and comes back in to focus again. A screen-rotate fixes it. Will need to message the developer for that and see if he can figure it out.

Re:Hope for reintegration by Desler · 2013-01-24 08:46 · Score: 2

Why would Samsung want it in the base OS? It is a differentiating feature of their devices.
Re:Hope for reintegration by h4rr4r · 2013-01-24 08:58 · Score: 1

They might not, but someone else might want to add it. Or at some point they might want to put it in the main tree, and have a new killer feature. To show that they are always ahead and what sort of things they bring to the party.
Re:Hope for reintegration by Desler · 2013-01-24 09:07 · Score: 1

Or at some point they might want to put it in the main tree, and have a new killer feature.

Again, how does that benefit Samsung? The whole point of making the feature was to have something on their devices that no one else does. Merging it into the base defeats that.

To show that they are always ahead and what sort of things they bring to the party.
Which they can already do without merging the feature.
Re:Hope for reintegration by h4rr4r · 2013-01-24 09:41 · Score: 1

Because they don't have to maintain it. Also if this is their castoffs imagine how good what they keep is, effect.
Honestly I am laughing that we are now excited about window managers. Next they will reinvent the tiling one.
The wheel of computing just keeps turning and recycling old ideas for a new generation.
Re:Hope for reintegration by shutdown+-p+now · 2013-01-24 11:14 · Score: 1

If it's in the base OS, far more people would write apps utilizing it.
And I doubt Samsung cares much about differentiating itself from other Android tablet manufacturers - they already have the biggest slice of that market by far. What they need is differentiating themselves from iPad. And this feature would retain its usefulness for that purpose if it goes to the base system - if anything, due to more apps supporting it, it would be an even better differentiator.

UX & Customization by Fri13 · 2013-01-24 08:16 · Score: 3, Informative

Android device makers, and the wireless carriers who offer Android smartphones to their customers, need ways to differentiate their products.

You do that mainly with hardware and with customer service.

Then you can place own custom wallpaper and custom icons, but stupid way to do is to bake them to Android framework so user can not remove them.
The correct (and smart) way would be to do a own launcher and own icon theme for it and make it available only for your hardware.
OEM could make custom look, custom functions but should always allow easily the user to swap to vanilla Android look and functionality.

Be a good OEM, support Android and give a customer change to actually like your product and use it as they want. OEM is hardware manufacturer what should focus for hardware first and then to user experience.

Re:UX & Customization by Dynedain · 2013-01-24 08:34 · Score: 4, Interesting

You do that mainly with hardware and with customer service.
Look how well that worked for Dell, HP, Compaq, eMachines, IBM (desktop/laptop services), Sony (laptops), etc.
Focusing on hardware results in a race to the bottom. And in the mobile market, customer service is a function of the carrier, not the device manufacturer. Apple has proven that the way to profits in saturated markets is to focus on the entire user experience. This gives them a major differentiator that lets them stand out and have a noticeable difference from other similar products.
If you settle on being an Android device manufacturer, how are you different from other Android device manufacturers? Screen size and color of your case isn't enough.

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Re:UX & Customization by kamapuaa · 2013-01-24 08:35 · Score: 5, Interesting

You do that mainly with hardware and with customer service.
But the hardware is all reaching towards one end goal: a big screen, fast enough, good resolution, not too big. Sure there's some room for variation, like maybe one has a larger battery at the expense of weighing an extra half an ounce, but there's really not not much to differentiate.
Soon, generic Chinese manufacturers will be able to make a phone that has a big screen, is fast enough, has good resolution, and isn't too big. It will load the same Android OS as everybody else. And it will be priced as a commodity. Nobody will pay more because they like the custom look better.
And customer service? I've never had to deal with a phone's customer service, ever. If it's a factor at all, it's a very small one.

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Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
Re:UX & Customization by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 08:37 · Score: 0

Being an OEM is a race to the bottom. Look at how HP and Dell are doing as "good" Windows OEMs. Microsoft has gotten into the hardware game. Apple's competitive is advantage is that they own the operating system and can make changes on a whim. They were able to release retina displays on notebooks before anyone else because they could modify their OS to support high DPI displays properly.
Android OEMs will always have to compete against others making similar hardware. Differentiating software is the only way to make profits in the long term.
Re:UX & Customization by characterZer0 · 2013-01-24 08:43 · Score: 4, Insightful

It is only a race to the bottom because with current carrier subsidies nobody expects their phone to last more than a year or two anyway. If the hardware companies want to compete on hardware quality/price, they need to stand up to the carriers. If they do not, it is their own fault.

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Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
Re:UX & Customization by amiga3D · 2013-01-24 08:46 · Score: 1

Other than quality, design and price there is no way to differentiate. What else is there for makers of hardware? I bought a Samsung phone because I liked the design better than the ones for HTC, Motorola and others. They all run Android so what else really is there to go by?
Re:UX & Customization by alvinrod · 2013-01-24 08:47 · Score: 1

Hardware isn't good enough anymore. Almost everyone is using the same off-the-shelf parts and in some cases, the field (TI isn't selling OMAP SoCs any more) is growing smaller. It's made worse by the fact that there's one company (Samsung) that can make most of their own hardware and edge everyone else out on margins if they want. We can already see this happening as outside of Samsung, other handset manufacturers are barely profitable if at all.

Eventually Chinese manufacturers will be able to undercut Samsung, so they need to find a long-term solution to differentiate their product. The only other way to go is software. Any custom experience for Android that you can only get on Samsung just serves as a way to lock-in customers. Honestly, I'm not surprised that they haven't started their own app store by now. If they can get to a position of supreme dominance they can even start charging Google to put their Google apps on phones.

Samsung needs to be in a position where they can control as much of their own destiny as possible. Having to rely on Google for all of the software experience (that also is made available to all of their competitors) isn't a good proposition for them as a company. They need to have as much leverage and control over that as possible, and now that they're far and away the leading Android manufacturer, they're in a position to flex their muscles a little.
Re:UX & Customization by Dynedain · 2013-01-24 08:48 · Score: 1

What's the point of hardware quality if it doesn't contribute to the overall user experience.
Reliability and performance are only small parts of the equation. And if you don't have software differences, then you can't highlight reliability and performance differences anyways. Who cares if my processor is 500 times faster than my competitor's if Angry Birds plays equally well on both?

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I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
Re:UX & Customization by lister+king+of+smeg · 2013-01-24 08:58 · Score: 2

or you could destinguish yourself with better specs, more ram more storage, more usb ports, sd card reader, or unique features like put in a CB radio tuner as some one that does a lot of fishing and camping out of cell phone range it would be nice to be able to comunicat with my freind on half lime down river or the other side a lake or just to save minutes. or integrated weather radio or stylus for writing, or come with hdtv tuner or am/fm tuner or any of a dozen more features to make each model stand out. or make it water and drop resent ant so if you drop it in the water it will survive with out having to sit in a bowl or rice for week to dry out. Make all sorts of smart feature phones to stand out.

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---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
Re:UX & Customization by 91degrees · 2013-01-24 09:14 · Score: 1

I think competitors should differentiate by features. There's a certain annoyance to this, but it does allow the market to establish what features people want. And while the free market isn't the perfect solution it does provide more concrete results than focus groups.
Re:UX & Customization by Dynedain · 2013-01-24 09:26 · Score: 2

That's exactly my point. Apple isn't running Android, just like Apple isn't running Windows. Because the control the software they have a much bigger impact on the overall user experience, as the software is arguably a larger factor in good user experience than the underlying hardware specs or bezel design.
If Android manufacturers want to be differentiated from other Android manufacturers, and survive the race to the bottom on pricing, then they must find ways to innovate and improve the overall customer experience. Desktop/laptop manufacturers tried to unsuccessfully bridge this problem by adding tons of vendor-specific bloatware apps on top of otherwise vanilla Windows installations. That marketplace doesn't work.
Samsung has been pushing the hardware side of the equation as much as they can, and they are standing out a bit, but not enough. Making software changes like this is where they can shine if they do it effectively and actually deliver improved experiences.

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I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
Re:UX & Customization by Dynedain · 2013-01-24 09:31 · Score: 1

My point is that approach was tried in the desktop/laptop market. And in the end, customers care more about price than minor feature differences. As a result, all mass-market desktop/laptop Windows manufacturers started losing money when the boom tapered off, and now are indistinguishable, and forced to sell off business units.
The only laptop manufacturer that has continued to experience massive growth is Apple, and that's because their product is noticeably and identifiable different by the consumer. So much so that consumers are willing to pay a premium for that difference.
2 vs 3 USB ports is not a noticeable difference. And adding a CB or weather radio appeals to very niche consumer groups. When it comes to making your product stand out, that is to differentiate from your competition, your differences must be noticeable and desirable. Specs is not noticeable (even if it is desireable).

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I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
Re:UX & Customization by Anne+Thwacks · 2013-01-24 09:39 · Score: 1

Or you could distinguish yourself by supporting your hardware with software upgrades as long as the hardware is capable. replaceable SD cards and batteries, and the option to install Cyanogenmod^H^H^H^H^H another OS.
Then again, you could be Nokia.

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Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Re:UX & Customization by characterZer0 · 2013-01-24 09:56 · Score: 2

Angry Birds is your example for user experience? How about making a damn phone call? No modern smartphone matches the Motorola dumb phone I had 10 years ago for reception.

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Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
Re:UX & Customization by ColdWetDog · 2013-01-24 10:08 · Score: 1

In America only old people use phone calls.

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Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Re:UX & Customization by mlk · 2013-01-24 11:32 · Score: 1

For the higher end (PDA-focused) devices, hardware input methods.
For the low end you have custom shells in software and some custom software.

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Wow, I should not post when knackered.
Re:UX & Customization by mlk · 2013-01-24 11:36 · Score: 1

Samsung have an app store. It is not very good.

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Wow, I should not post when knackered.
Re:UX & Customization by Dynedain · 2013-01-24 13:16 · Score: 1

Pick any app you want. I chose Angry Birds because it's so damn ubiquitous that it is expected to run on any smartphone available.
If your app/software doesn't behave any differently (aka your user experience is identical) on different Android devices, then what's the value in better machine specs?

--
I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
Re:UX & Customization by BasilBrush · 2013-01-24 14:15 · Score: 1

Look how well that worked for Dell, HP, Compaq, eMachines, IBM (desktop/laptop services), Sony (laptops), etc.
Dell and HP (at least) tried to differentiate their software by adding all sorts of junk on top. In the end their customers despised them for it. Many just wiped the disk and did a fresh install of Windows. Way to waste your customer's time.
Re:UX & Customization by program666 · 2013-01-24 23:34 · Score: 1

I would make sense if "trying to differentiate yourself" didn't mean "cramming really crappy shit on the phone". They should give up trying to be apple and maybe try to just fix bugs/bad behaviors, maybe giving optional new funcionalities. This post is not about a minor change, introducing windows on a system that had none is a recipe for fuckage.
Re:UX & Customization by Rich0 · 2013-01-25 02:57 · Score: 1

And customer service? I've never had to deal with a phone's customer service, ever. If it's a factor at all, it's a very small one.
I wouldn't lump OS updates into that. That is Android's biggest weakness - it doesn't centralize OS updates. Imagine if you could only get Windows 7/8/etc from whoever sold you your PC, and they were free to not support any particular model.
Re:UX & Customization by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-25 15:34 · Score: 0

there are multiple niches in the phone ecosystem, that many are sadly ignored. Those that I see are the Low end, which are still cutdown versions of the high end models. Another niche is the rugged models. they still tend to have crap specs.
Another niche, that currently only the chinese are interested in is integrating VHF and UHF radios into the design. Something that I think is incredibly useful to have in a phone when doing things worksites, Security, and anything outside of cellrange. Though I expect this sort of stuff to be included whenever SDR starts to become practical for cellular communication.
Re:UX & Customization by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-25 15:42 · Score: 0

They control the AMOLED market and have some of the best processors as well. Everyone else has to make due using Snapdragon or TI chips, and have to compete against apple to get in on the supply chain, so they have to make due with slightly older tech or with stuff with low yields.
Re:UX & Customization by Dynedain · 2013-01-25 19:16 · Score: 1

I agree... shitty software (see desktop bloatware) is a horrible way to differentiate. Apple has no qualms about ripping things apart at any point in the technology stack so that they can provide a real improvement or unique experience to the customer. See Visual Voicemail as an example. No-one had anything like that until Apple forced it ahead because they could wedge the issue.

--
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MS Windows-like capabilities by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 08:20 · Score: 0

Not windows 8.

Like it or not, Samsung is Android by SuperKendall · 2013-01-24 08:20 · Score: 5, Insightful

Well really there are three Androids now:

1) Amazon
2) Samsung
3) Everyone else

Samsung by grabbing so much market share of Android sales, now how the power to drive Android in a direction it wants to go.

Its not a bad or a good thing; it's just what is. If I were doing Android development supporting Samsung extensions would seem to be a pretty good idea.

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"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley

Re:Like it or not, Samsung is Android by Beyond_GoodandEvil · 2013-01-24 08:24 · Score: 1

Well really there are three Androids now: 1) Amazon 2) Samsung 3) Everyone else
Which ever one of those vendors fixes the bluetooth stack in 4.2.1 to work w/ my in car audio gets my business, I have no need for 8-12 tiles/windows, but I do need for shit that wasn't broken to remain not broken going forward.

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I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
Re:Like it or not, Samsung is Android by Enderandrew · 2013-01-24 08:29 · Score: 1

Their Jelly Bean version of TouchWiz moved closer to vanilla Android at the same time that Android was taking a few cues from TouchWiz with the quick settings menu. I wouldn't be shocked to see Samsung's version and vanilla to merge closer together so long as Samsung is selling as much hardware as they are.
With high resolution tablet displays and powerful multi-core ARM processors, true multitasking becomes more viable. Why ignore that?

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http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
Re:Like it or not, Samsung is Android by Threni · 2013-01-24 08:31 · Score: 1

> need for shit that wasn't broken to remain not broken going forward
Does it work when you go backwards?
Re:Like it or not, Samsung is Android by marsu_k · 2013-01-24 08:33 · Score: 2

In a way, that is already happening - 4.2 features "quick settings" which have been around for ages in TouchWiz, for example. Whether vanilla Android does it better than Samsung is debatable, but personally I don't mind that such features can go "upstream".
WRT to the article - I haven't got a Note, but I have multi-window support on my stock (international) S3, and mostly it is a gimmick. It doesn't offer the "cascade view" as in TFA, but you can have two apps side-by-side. And unless doing very much of copypasteing, there's no point to it. However, I really don't see how this functionality fragments Android. It's not like any apps I run require the functionality, most will simply be hindered by the lack of space.
Re:Like it or not, Samsung is Android by Cinder6 · 2013-01-24 08:49 · Score: 1

I think it would be a nice feature to have on my iPad, if only so I could have an IM window open on one side of the screen, and a web browser/whatever else on the other. (Or maybe a movie on one side, or ___ or ___.) There are certainly uses, though I doubt I'd ever use it on a phone.

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If you can't convince them, convict them.
Re:Like it or not, Samsung is Android by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 11:03 · Score: 0

I wonder if that's why my Bluetooth keyboard refuses to pair with a Nexus 7.
Re:Like it or not, Samsung is Android by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 11:24 · Score: 0

No, Samsung will be bad for Android. Their software upgrades are very slow to happen and pretty damned poor. I have an old Samsung Wave, had to downgrade it to a previous version because the "upgrade" killed it's performance while adding a few minor tweaks. I doubt things have changed dramatically, so, no thanks, I'll stick stock Android and CM.
Re:Like it or not, Samsung is Android by steelfood · 2013-01-24 12:31 · Score: 1

I suspect Google still sets the standard for what's Android. Until Samsung's app store or Amazon's app store is as big as and different from Google's, they don't have their own version of Android quite yet.
Yeah, Samsung and Amazon can customize or fork to their heart's delight. But they may lose compatibility to Google's app store and maybe 3rd party stores, and that'd be a huge hit to their offerings.
Android is more than an OS. Like iOS, it's an ecosystem. And that ecosystem requires apps. It's not unlike gaming systems. To survive, each platform had to have its own exclusive game--its own killer app. The same applies to phone OSes.

--
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
Re:Like it or not, Samsung is Android by BasilBrush · 2013-01-24 14:21 · Score: 1, Interesting

Samsung by grabbing so much market share of Android sales, now how the power to drive Android in a direction it wants to go.
Oh dear. That's another of those things that killed Symbian. An OS from one company, with one of it's customers (Nokia) so large, and doing it's own development on top, it could drive the platform in the direction it wanted.
It drove all the other manufacturers away from the OS, and then the lack of consistent vision for the OS made it into a horrible mess.
Sound familiar?
Re:Like it or not, Samsung is Android by Rich0 · 2013-01-25 03:05 · Score: 1

Yeah, Bluetooth has always been painful on Android, especially with 3rd party mods. Somebody needs to buy those college kids a BMW or something. :)
Re:Like it or not, Samsung is Android by jp10558 · 2013-01-25 06:14 · Score: 1

How do you all manage to jot down a phone number from a voicemail on a modern android phone? I was hoping I could use the multi window thing, but it doesn't support generic apps (which seems stupid to me anyway)...
I'd like to get away from needing a notebook and pen when going through voicemails - though if people would just call me from the # they want the reply @ it would be much easier!

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Opera, Proxomitron-Grypen,GPG 0x0A1C6EE3
Re:Like it or not, Samsung is Android by Brian+Feldman · 2013-01-25 10:33 · Score: 1

With a Galaxy Note 2, you just pull out the stylus and start writing. You do have to turn on the setting that enables a new S Note window to pop up when you remove the pen. As a nice bonus, it works without unlocking, too.

--
Brian Fundakowski Feldman

It is open source by thetoadwarrior · 2013-01-24 08:27 · Score: 1, Interesting

They're free to fork it if they want. If google doesn't like it then tough. They can think back to the time they pissed off oracle and the Linux kernel people. Besides that's what happens when you flood the market with a bunch of nearly identical cheap phones. Hardware people will need to stand out in some way and unlike the iPhone most of them have shit margins and won't have a problem doing what they think they can do to protect their position

Re:It is open source by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 08:35 · Score: 1

If the hardware doesn't pass Google's compatibility test, it doesn't get to ship with the Play Store, which would be bad for Samsung.
Since it is shipping with Play Store installed, it's probably not a problem for your app's compatibility unless you're doing something stupid.
Re:It is open source by Cito · 2013-01-24 08:37 · Score: 1

They should write a full Android for desktop fork :)
I'd give it whirl, would be great for older boxes, and I like the interface, just rip out the touch shit and make it more mouse friendly
id enjoy that
Re:It is open source by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 08:48 · Score: 0

They could call the desktop Android- let's see now- ah, I've got it: Linux. ;)
Re:It is open source by thetoadwarrior · 2013-01-24 09:33 · Score: 1

Surely Amazon would be happy to take their spot. In all honesty though I think it would help to see someone compete against Google in Android. I don't think Google is doing enough to protect Android. The biggest issue for me is the lack of updates and it's not even consistent so if you want to switch android phones or mobile providers you can't say that you can at least guarantee two updates.

Interesting double standard. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 08:30 · Score: 0

Slashdot seems to have some severe issues with Android being forked by various hardware manufacturers...and yet...every time a post about some new "I hate GNOME 3" Ubuntu spin-off gets posted here people latch onto it like the second coming. It's almost as if the hivemind is divided on this subject, is forking a project a good idea or not? Maybe it's not all as clear as a black and white, one line question?

Never mind, this is Slashdot. No one thinks in any other color but black and white here.

Re:Interesting double standard. by amiga3D · 2013-01-24 08:50 · Score: 1

Whether forking is good or not depends on a lot of variables. Obviously if a project is stagnant or going in what a lot of people feel is the wrong direction it can be good. In other cases maybe not so good. I feel that mostly it doesn't matter. If it's a good fork eventually it will become the project and if not it'll die.

Never been all that fond of the Window widget by 91degrees · 2013-01-24 08:34 · Score: 1

While the window does have its uses, I find most of the time I want a single app operating full screen. Additional apps are sometimes useful and I tend to fit them on a second window,but on the whole I find switching between apps using the taskbar is a lot more useful.

I'm clearly not the only person who feels this way to some degree. There's a reason that firefox gained market share, and much as I wish it was, it probably wasn't because of standards compliance. It was because it didn't clutter the workspace with windows.

MS Windows-like capabilities by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 08:37 · Score: 1

So it will
*blue screen
*get malware
*gum up registry
*hog your hardware
*dial back to Redmond
*overwrite the bootloader regardless of other OSes
*600 page EULA
*super sikrit code keys asked at every turn
*activation bullshit

hmm.. no thx

Lemme ask: has this guy ever used a computer or just M$ Winders?

Android does windows! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 08:39 · Score: 0

Android does windows! When will Google update my phone to that? Man I can't wait.

I'm kidding I know it's a forked version but I wonder if Google will now how to add it.

I think you can code to it though. by SuperKendall · 2013-01-24 08:43 · Score: 2

I really don't see how this functionality fragments Android.

It doesn't exactly fragment in the traditional way, but I believe you can code in some ways that enhance your apps use in the multi-window mode - but because Samsung is such a large component of the Android market and also most of the higher end of it, if I were making an Android app I'd specifically add whatever support made sense for that even though it is Android specific.

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"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley

It's "Samsung," not "Android" by lseltzer · 2013-01-24 08:43 · Score: 1

Nobody uses the term "Android" when pitching to consumers, but Samsung is particularly aggressive about differentiating their software. If all the distributions competed only on hardware it would be a boring market.

Good, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 08:46 · Score: 0

I applaud Sammy on making Android more useable in a hybrid/convertible setup, however, I wish they'd make it less ugly. Windows 8 has ugliness in ex-Metro, but at least the desktop environment looks great.

No no no ... by gstoddart · 2013-01-24 08:53 · Score: 2

wireless carriers who offer Android smartphones to their customers, need ways to differentiate their products

In my experience when carriers try to 'differentiate' their phones, they install shitware, cripple the device, and sometimes even modify it to cost you more money.

Years ago when phones which could surf the web were new, a friend spent an entire weekend trying to reconcile his charged bandwidth with what he believed it should have been -- in the end, the way the carrier had injected themselves into the process ended up sending twice as much data. It could have been innocent, or it could have been a cash grab. The end result was the same, a slower more costly data plan.

In my experience, the carrier specific stuff installed on a phone makes it worse. On my current Android phone, I disabled everything specific to the carrier and ended up with a *far* better phone, because they want to stick themselves into everything or sell you ring tones and other shit.

Carriers usually aren't qualified to do a good job of this, and they're only looking out for their own profits.

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Lost at C:>. Found at C.

Awesome move by water-and-sewer · 2013-01-24 09:03 · Score: 1

I'll let the "forking android" conversation run its course. From the point of a casual tablet user, this is progress. There are lots of times it's a hassle to have some info in one app, and some in another, and only be permitted to have one open at a time. This may be confusing or cause the world to stop spinning or whatever, but to me it's useful.

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If this were Usenet, I'd killfile the lot of you.

MS patent lawsuit coming in 3... 2... 1... by Kergan · 2013-01-24 09:13 · Score: 1

Hasn't Samsung learned its lesson when it copied Apple and got fined a billion dollars for doing so?

Re:MS patent lawsuit coming in 3... 2... 1... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 09:25 · Score: 0

Hasn't Samsung learned its lesson when it copied Apple and got fined a billion dollars for doing so?
They didn't copy Microsoft. Only you and the submitter seem to think windows means MS Windows(TM).

Make sure to contribute back by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 09:14 · Score: 0

Forking android is fine, as long as you give Google some pull-request love. If the changes are not integrated back in, Google will come up with their own different implementation of it next year.

Samsung Android devices crash on cut & paste by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 09:21 · Score: 0

Samsung has zero credibility on putting out quality software. There is a bug on their Android software (not on Google's base code), that causes applications to crash when they use the clipboard. Has been this way for months, and ever after various software updates, Samsung has failed to acknowledge the error even exists, so there is also very low chances that they will go through the trouble of putting out a fix, as simple as it may be (users with root access can just periodically delete a file and everything works perfectly fine).

What a joke.

https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=35732
http://developer.samsung.com/forum/board/thread/view.do?boardName=GeneralB&messageId=213645

You're missing the Nexus series. by Chirs · 2013-01-24 09:22 · Score: 2

The N4/N7/N10 are pretty much flying off the shelves as fast as they can make them.

Re:You're missing the Nexus series. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-25 04:25 · Score: 0

They're not. The N4 is supply constrained, that is not as much a statement about sales volume as it is about production.
Re:You're missing the Nexus series. by samwichse · 2013-01-28 05:29 · Score: 1

How is this not flying off the shelves as fast as they can make them?

Adding "MS Windows functionality" by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 09:26 · Score: 0

It's funny that the Samsung/Android is adding "MS Windows" functionality at the same time MS Windows is loosing that functionality.

Re:Adding "MS Windows functionality" by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 09:31 · Score: 0

It's funny that the Samsung/Android is adding "MS Windows" functionality at the same time MS Windows is loosing that functionality.
D'oh! I know better; that was just a typo (stupid keyboard!).

As of today...18 apps...not so many by Bearhouse · 2013-01-24 09:31 · Score: 1

OK, Samsung is the biggest player in Android right now, but seeing as how so many iOS and Andoid devs seem to have so much trouble making their apps scale to different resolutions, I wonder how many 'windowing' apps we will ultimately see.

I don't know anything about developing for those platforms; can anyone here say how hard or trivial it is?
(Like, why did I get an update for virtually all my iPhone and iPad apps when the iPhone 5 came out, although they seemed to be just to cater for the different screen resolution of the iPhone 5, which i was clearly not using. Have not noticed this with my Andoid devices..)

Also, how hard for Google to just stick this feature back into 'base' Andoid? Real multi-tasking and windowing, that would really stick it to iOS, eh? The hardware seems beefy enough now...

Re:As of today...18 apps...not so many by mlk · 2013-01-24 11:45 · Score: 1

To use the split screen (rather than the windowing) you just to state in the manifest that the app supports this feature. Assuming your UI is designed to work at "odd" resolutions it should just work (not tried it yet).

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Wow, I should not post when knackered.

No, not tough... by bornagainpenguin · 2013-01-24 09:32 · Score: 1

They're free to fork it if they want. If google doesn't like it then tough.

Actually, if Google doesn't like it, Samsung will be forbidden to call it Android. This already happened once with Acer. What makes you think Google won't spank Samsung too if necessary?

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Re:No, not tough... by thetoadwarrior · 2013-01-24 09:52 · Score: 1

Samsung is the top Android seller. They could spank them but then maybe Samsung will say fine and go off and do their own thing and take a lot of people with them and cut Google out.
Re:No, not tough... by F.Ultra · 2013-01-25 01:06 · Score: 1

I don't think that Samsung wants to be cut out of the Play Store and also lose all the Google propiatery apps (Gmail, Google Maps etc) just yet.
Re:No, not tough... by thetoadwarrior · 2013-01-25 10:36 · Score: 1

If windows phone can get access to those things then surely samsung can too even if it means developing their own apps or pointing people towards the web versions which actually work pretty well. That and given how little it seems Android people use the internet compared to iphone users I suspect that's not a huge loss.
Re:No, not tough... by F.Ultra · 2013-01-25 14:49 · Score: 1

So you claim that Windows Phone has access to the Google Play Store? Now that's news to me.
Re:No, not tough... by thetoadwarrior · 2013-01-25 21:05 · Score: 1

The non-retarded person would realise I meant everything but the play store which doesn't matter since amazon can provide so much more.
Re:No, not tough... by F.Ultra · 2013-01-26 09:33 · Score: 1

So I wrote that Samsung wouldn't want to be locked out of the Google Play Store too which you replied that "windows phone can get access to those things", and that makes me the retard? You better fresh up either your reading or writing skills ;)

I don't know by TheSkepticalOptimist · 2013-01-24 09:38 · Score: 1

Needing multiple windows on a tablet or phone means you are using it wrong, or really want to be using a laptop.

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Re:I don't know by 4pins · 2013-01-24 11:09 · Score: 1

Needing multiple windows on a tablet or phone means you are using it wrong, or really want to be using a laptop.
That is what I thought, then I picked up my laptop running Windows 8.
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

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I will not mourn that which I never had to lose. - Unknown

Now make it work by tompaulco · 2013-01-24 09:45 · Score: 1

It's great that Samsung is making multiple windows possible, now how about making it work as a phone? The only time my phone has ever crashed was when I was making a call. It's a PHONE. Making a call is it's PRIMARY PURPOSE. If it screws up when sending a text or an e-mail, or while playing a game, that is understandable, but if it is making a call, there is no excuse for that ever failing. My 20 year old bag phone never rebooted when trying to make a call. Neither did my Motorola brick, flip phone, or any of my several Nokia's. But suddenly I get an S2 and it reboots during calls. This morning, I tried 5 times to call into a conference number. Whenever it connected, the screen completely freezes. I am unable to push any button or get back to the number pad screen to put in my code for the conference. Then after about 5 seconds, it reboots. After 5 attempts, I called from my house phone. Surprise! The house phone didn't reboot. It just made the call, just like a cell phone is primarily supposed to do.
I don't care about all the whizbang apps, web surfing, texting, e-mailing, alarm clocks, calendars, phonebooks, etc. If it can't fulfill it's primary purpose of making phone calls, then it is a crap product and should not have been released.

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If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.

Re:Now make it work by Microlith · 2013-01-24 09:58 · Score: 1

It's a PHONE. Making a call is it's PRIMARY PURPOSE.
Given how people use their devices these days, I'd argue that actual voice calls are a secondary, possibly tertiary function these days.
The correct response is that it should not crash while fulfilling any of its core functions, nor should applications be able to crash it.
Re:Now make it work by GuB-42 · 2013-01-24 11:11 · Score: 1

My smartphone is more like a small computer that happens to make phone calls than the opposite. To each his own.
Most of my geek friends who really need to make or receive calls usually have two phones : a personal smartphone they can play with and a more simple/robust/reliable work phone.
Re:Now make it work by mlk · 2013-01-24 11:12 · Score: 1

Agreed. I don't own a I phone, I own a PDA with a phone tacked on (Note 2).

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Wow, I should not post when knackered.
Re:Now make it work by Dynedain · 2013-01-24 13:40 · Score: 1

It's a PHONE. Making a call is it's PRIMARY PURPOSE.
Good for you. Making a phone call is one of the many uses for the device in my pocket. However, phone calls are definitely not the leading use either by time or frequency. Web surfing, ebook reading, or email all happen more on my "smartphone" than voice calling.

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Just install ADW Launcher ... by kbahey · 2013-01-24 09:51 · Score: 1

If you don't like the user interface that the handset manufactuer cooked up and puked on your Android phone, just install ADW Launcher on it, and you get a functional as well as speedy.

I did that on my Sony Ericsson Xperia Arc to get rid of Sony's TimeScape.

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2bits.com, Inc: Drupal, WordPress, and LAMP performance tuning.

Multi-windows on small devices a bad idea by presidenteloco · 2013-01-24 10:01 · Score: 2

MS-hating aside, multiple window viewing and management on a physically small device like a tablet or phablet is just a bad UI idea, even if the screen resolution is high. Flipping the whole screen sideways between whole-window apps is a better idea.

This gives me the impression of having come from the creative minds of people who think that managing windows on screen is synonymous with using a computer. That is a sadly narrow view, reflecting too much time spent in front of beige boxes.

In the west, demographics suggests that font sizes on both stop signs and computer screens should be getting bigger, not smaller. And all you youngsters out there. Don't gloat. Staring cross-eyed at endless streams of life-alteringly important texts and sexts on phablets will blur your vision sooner than you think.

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Re:Multi-windows on small devices a bad idea by shutdown+-p+now · 2013-01-24 11:10 · Score: 2

I haven't used Samsung's mod, but I have used Win8 tablets, which let you "dock" two apps side by side, and the feature can be immensely useful - e.g. you can have a window with your chat app, but also open the browser and look things up and quickly cut & paste them - much more convenient than flipping back and forth between two full-screen apps.
Furthermore, Android isn't just about tablets anymore. There are convertible devices like Asus Transformer, and Samsung already has a Transformer-like device running Win8 (ATIV) - I wouldn't be surprised if they'll make an Android version of that, soon. Windows make a lot of sense on those things when the dock is attached, especially since you also have the trackpad.
Re:Multi-windows on small devices a bad idea by mlk · 2013-01-24 11:27 · Score: 1

As someone who uses this feature a lot (but in a limited scope), I disagree.
Having a stopwatch and the notepad (S-Note) open is very useful for recording exercise routines. Having a web page open a webpage open at the same time as the notepad means you can take notes while reading.

font sizes on both stop signs and computer screens should be getting bigger, not smaller.
I'm confused by this. The font size stays the same, just like in Windows.

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Wow, I should not post when knackered.
Re:Multi-windows on small devices a bad idea by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 17:56 · Score: 0

Hey, in the 90s we used to have multi window capability with 640x480 screen formfactors (smaller than today's phones) and we liked it
Re:Multi-windows on small devices a bad idea by Patch86 · 2013-01-25 23:01 · Score: 1

MS-hating aside, multiple window viewing and management on a physically small device like a tablet or phablet is just a bad UI idea, even if the screen resolution is high.
Android runs on relatively large screened devices. The Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 has got a 10 inch screen. An Asus Zenbook (an ultrabook- expensive portable laptop) has an 11 inch screen. There's no reason why the 10 inch tablet should be limited to "one full screen programme at a time", while the 11 inch is perfectly suited to full window computing.
I agree that multi-windowing would be pretty silly on a 4 inch phone, but that's not exactly the extent of it.

You got a point but it is a MESS right now by SmallFurryCreature · 2013-01-24 10:07 · Score: 4, Insightful

I am seriously starting to dislike Android. When it runs, it is fine BUT if you want to upgrade (coming from a DOS, Unix, Linux and Windows background) FORGET about it. It is gigantic fucking mess where you are totally at the mercy of the manufacturer as to whether your model gets an upgrade. Cyanogenmod isn't an answer either, it is FAR from a generic Android that just "works". If Android was Linux you would have distro's that ONLY ran on ONE model of Dell and then had 1 year after release small niggling bugs like the monitor not yet working...

Now I grew up with Unix, Dos, Windows and Linux. I am no stranger to having to hunt for drivers and have to deal with weird configurations and installing stuff in just the right order. But with ALL the above, you at least have the OPTION to do so.

With Android? No drivers, no configs, no nothing. Either you spend ages learning how to cook a release to tweak it or you just don't. The debug options to are shockingly bad even compared to Windows. It would be a LOT better if there was just a default install you could do and install drivers that Google required each company to make available for install if they want to use Android.

But they didn't and you suddenly realize just how fucking open the Windows platform is by comparison, just how complete Linux is.

I am either going to stick with Nexus devices in the future or hope an alternative emerges because I am NOT going to be stuck with a device that is not going to be updated by Samsung ever again.

You don't have to differentiate with screen/case etc. JUST FUCKING UPDATE YOUR FUCKING DEVICE! That will make you fucking unique in Android land. The first company that manages to release a device that can ALWAYS run the latest Android version will leave ALL the other companies in the dust.

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Re:You got a point but it is a MESS right now by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 13:46 · Score: 0

I bought a Galaxy Ace last summer. It came with version 2.3.6 and later I found out Samsung won't bother to update it. And I refuse to tinker with with a buggy custom rom. I just want a phone that works, so it seems I'll stay with Gingerbread for the next years.
Re:You got a point but it is a MESS right now by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 15:47 · Score: 0

Whaaaa! I don't want to spend 10 minutes to learn how to flash a ROM! Whaaa! CM is valid, you ass. I'm running CM10.1 on my galaxy s 2 right now, and it's like butter. Shut up.
Re:You got a point but it is a MESS right now by F.Ultra · 2013-01-25 01:02 · Score: 1

But that is not really due to Android, this happens because the phone market is what it is. The phone manufacturers wants you to throw your one year device away and buy a new one, that's how their market model works.
At some point Apple will have to introduce functions in IOS that makes them have to drop support for older hw, and the same will happen with Wndows Phone. It happens more frequently with Android due to the high development pace that we have seen in Android the last years.
Re:You got a point but it is a MESS right now by Rich0 · 2013-01-25 01:54 · Score: 1

Yeah, maybe CM works fine on a Galaxy S2, but try it on devices that are much less popular. Many phones NEVER get a Cyanogenmod release. And it isn't always bulletproof - often stable releases lag way behind Google's OS releases (the S2 has no stable release), and the unstable ones usually have little issues especially with less-commonly-used features (odd bluetooth configurations, camera/gps glitches, etc). Maybe the S2 release right now happens to be better than most (haven't tried it), but I know that on my previous phone it was anything but stable unless you stuck with Gingerbread, which at least was better than the Froyo that it came with. CM doesn't really have a testing/quality cycle either - they have nightlies and then one day a new one is built and gets declared stable - that really isn't how just about anybody does it in the real world (hint - a build should never be considered stable 5 seconds after the compile is done).
And good luck with anything but CM. The fact that it is so painful to actually make old phones work on new OS versions is why there is only one mainstream distro. Imagine if the gnu/linux world consisted of one distro that worked on 60% of PCs, 300 distros that worked on one PC each, and one mainstream window manager implementation.
These are all legitimate complaints, even if the CM devs have worked miracles to make things reasonably bearable on older devices. They're working in awful conditions thanks to the fact that every device is completely unique and the drivers are all closed with unstable APIs.
Re:You got a point but it is a MESS right now by Rich0 · 2013-01-25 02:55 · Score: 1

The whole thing that makes x86/amd64 so different is that the BIOS has been stable for decades. Sure, the odd WiFi chipset might be troublesome, but the windows driver interface has also been fairly stable so getting those drivers ported is reasonably straightforward at least.
Every version of Android uses new driver APIs, and every device uses nearly unique hardware. That means that every 3rd party mod has to be tailored to a specific device, and it needs to reverse engineer both the driver and OS side of the APIs.
Re:You got a point but it is a MESS right now by quacking+duck · 2013-01-25 07:12 · Score: 1

You don't have to differentiate with screen/case etc. JUST FUCKING UPDATE YOUR FUCKING DEVICE! That will make you fucking unique in Android land. The first company that manages to release a device that can ALWAYS run the latest Android version will leave ALL the other companies in the dust.
Remember that more Android phones are being sold per quarter than Apple phones. This despite the well-known issue of limited (if any) updates from Android manufacturers and carriers, and despite Apple still providing iOS updates (even if some features are missing) to models that came out almost 3.5 years ago.
The takeaway is that most Android users *don't care* what version they're running. By many accounts, they don't even use most of the features in the version that came with it. More than screen size or the latest features, they want it cheap, and that's exactly what they're getting.
And as you note, there's already a device that can always run the latest Android version: the Nexus 4 (unless I and many others have been mislead about its true upgradability). Google and LG botched the Nexus 4's launch and supplies are next to nil, but even if we're extremely generous and say it could've sold ten times the 370,000 estimated actual sales, and increase that by 50% to make it a quarter's worth of sales (it's only been out for 2 months), that's still only 9% of the estimated 60 million Galaxy SIIIs sold in just the last quarter. I'm sure Samsung isn't losing any sleep at all over the possibility the Nexus will leave them in the dust.
Re:You got a point but it is a MESS right now by iampiti · 2013-01-25 09:05 · Score: 1

I understand you and I agree that would be nice to be able to update to the latest Android version on your own without having to depend on the manufacturer /carrier.
Anyway, being able to update to OS of your phone (apart from minor updates and fixes) has only been posible since Apple released the iPhone. At least you have the Nexus option. It's not the ideal scenario but at least you have choice.
Supporting a device for a long time can also be seen as a differentiating strategy by manufacturers. And some of them are not too bad: Samsung just released a Jelly Bean update to my almost 2 year old galaxy s2. It went from 2.3 to 4.0 to 4.1. That's two major updates. Pretty good in my book.

Contradict yourself often? by SmallFurryCreature · 2013-01-24 10:13 · Score: 1

So... customers care more about price then minor feature differences but are willing to pay a premium for Apple products that have minor feature differences...

That makes sense.

Oh and smartphones are hardly a budget market at the moment, if you want a budget phone, you get one for 50 dollars or less without a contract. 500-600 dollars for a smartphone is high-end. And they sell like hotcakes.

--

MMO Quests are like orgasms:

You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

Re:Contradict yourself often? by Dynedain · 2013-01-24 13:27 · Score: 1

Umm... no. You put words in my mouth. Since Apple controls both hardware and software on their platform, they can present substantial feature variation, that is noticeably different from their competitors (the differentiators in marketing-speak). As such, they can overcome the hurdle of consumer price-sensitivity and charge substantially more, resulting in more profit. There is no substantial difference to the consumer between a Dell and HP laptop. As such, they compete on price alone; the race to the bottom that has destroyed many major system builders. However, there is substantial consumer-visible difference between an Apple laptop and a Dell, which is why Apple can survive as a market-leader even with a smaller piece of the overall marketshare.
Or are you trying to argue that Apple's unibody aluminum laptops running OSX are only differentiated from the typical black plastic Dell laptop in minor ways that the consumer wouldn't notice?
And even if you want to stick strictly with smartphones, iOS is a dramatically different experience from Android, even if you can accomplish the same tasks on both platforms.

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I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....

P.S. - meant "Samsung Specific" at end by SuperKendall · 2013-01-24 10:33 · Score: 1

Curse my hasty posting, didn't hit preview.

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"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley

Can they patent these features? by detain · 2013-01-24 10:38 · Score: 1

Is there any potential for them to prevent other android companies from making similar changes to android? My worry here is they patent the modifications and prevent them from showing up in the main branch of android code if someone later on wants to add their own version of the same features to main android.

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http://interserver.net/

Differentiate? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 11:08 · Score: 0

And remember: unlike Apple, Android device makers, and the wireless carriers who offer Android smartphones to their customers, need ways to differentiate their products.

Actually, what you should be aware of is that Samsung is it. They are the only Android manufacturer making money. The others may want to differentiate, or emulate; but whatever it is isn't working.

Cornerstone vs Samsung MultiWindow by mlk · 2013-01-24 11:10 · Score: 1

It appears the difference is that Cornerstone allows the user to decide which app would be windowed, however MultiWindow requires the developers of the application to support it. Googles complain appears to be arround users mistaking an application that does not support Cornerstone for a crappy application. Which is kind-off fair

Cornerstone - Make it application opt-in.

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Wow, I should not post when knackered.

Carrier crippleware by frisket · 2013-01-24 11:12 · Score: 3, Insightful

And remember: unlike Apple, Android device makers, and the wireless carriers who offer Android smartphones to their customers, need ways to differentiate their products.

No they fucking well do not.

Only in the USA would this be regarded as a virtue or a requirement. I don't want to have to choose between crippled-version-of-Android-1, crippled-version-of-Android-2, crippled-version-of-Android-3, etc when what I want is a decent device knowing that the system will be the same no matter which device I choose.

The last thing on earth we need is wireless carriers and telcos who bugger around with the OS because they think their ghastly sucky software is sooooo terribly important.

Oh, wait, we already have them...

Re:Carrier crippleware by Dynedain · 2013-01-24 13:43 · Score: 1

If you want to make sales and stay in business as an Android manufacturer, yes you do need a way to differentiate yourself from other Android manufacturers. Otherwise the only thing to compete on is price, and that's a race to the bottom with shrinking profit margins to see who can put out the cheapest possible product. See desktop Windows computers as a prime example for this market phenomenon.

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Re:Carrier crippleware by Rich0 · 2013-01-25 04:08 · Score: 1

See desktop Windows computers as a prime example for this market phenomenon.
You mean companies like Dell that make $2B/yr? Yeah, no way you can make money selling commodity IT.
Re:Carrier crippleware by Dynedain · 2013-01-25 19:14 · Score: 1

Yes, companies like Dell that now have to sell out, or IBM who sold their consumer business, or companies like Gateway and Compaq that both had to sell out, or companies like HP that are floundering in the consumer market.
If you do exactly the same thing as your competition, don't be surprised when you drop in relevance as competitors do the exact same thing cheaper.

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Re:Carrier crippleware by Rich0 · 2013-01-25 23:50 · Score: 1

Dell made half a billion dollars last quarter. The only reason anybody wants to sell it is because if somebody like MS buys it and does abusive market tying they could gouge consumers and make even more.
Chances are the company that makes the toothpaste you buy makes plenty of money too, despite making essentially the same product for decades. Sure, they probably don't make a 500% markup on each tube, but they make plenty.

Android pipes are called Share by tepples · 2013-01-24 11:36 · Score: 2

What if Android would get something so powerful for GUI apps as what pipe is for Unix shell?

I think that's what the "share" button on each application's action bar is for. (Pre-Android 4.0 applications don't have an action bar; instead, they have only an overflow menu.)

It is so funny that sometimes I am watching random Star Trek TNG episodes and they don't ever do any backups.

That you can see. Some operating systems can be configured to back up certain folders automatically in the background, and I'd bet LCARS on their PADDs is configured the same way.

I don't even know can you share content between Modern apps in Windows 8

To "share" in Windows Store applications, you need to open the Charms bar, which is essentially a system-wide auto-hidden toolbar. It's magically delicious!

Hell, MI by tepples · 2013-01-24 11:38 · Score: 1

Does Google Navigation describe your current location as "Hell"?

Only near Pinckney.

Segmenting market into Chrome OS and Android by tepples · 2013-01-24 11:40 · Score: 1

The feature is nevertheless something that Android sorely needs if it wants to expand from plain tablets to Win8-style convertibles and laptops.

Unless Google is trying to intentionally segment the market: convertibles and laptops run Chrome OS, and plain tablets run Android.

Re:Segmenting market into Chrome OS and Android by shutdown+-p+now · 2013-01-24 11:56 · Score: 1

It would be extremely stupid of them, in my opinion. ChromeOS doesn't have anywhere near the market share of Android, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. And personally, why would I want to buy two devices - a smartphone and a tablet convertible - and then buy the same (or similar) apps for each of them twice? Or, as a developer, why would I even be bothered to support ChromeOS today?
Also, I haven't heard of any ChromeOS convertibles, and my understanding is that it is not really touch-oriented - so how well would it run on such a device?
Re:Segmenting market into Chrome OS and Android by tepples · 2013-01-24 12:10 · Score: 1

And personally, why would I want to buy two devices - a smartphone and a tablet convertible - and then buy the same (or similar) apps for each of them twice? Or, as a developer, why would I even be bothered to support ChromeOS today?
I think you may have answered your own question. Developers want you to have to buy apps twice. The other reason for developers to target Chrome Web Store is that they can sell to users of Chrome for Windows, Chrome for Mac, and Chrome for Linux, and I'm under the impression that a forthcoming version of Chrome for Android will support them as well.

my understanding is that [Chrome] is not really touch-oriented
How not? I run Chrome on my Android tablet, or at least a subset of Chrome that Google calls Chrome.
Re:Segmenting market into Chrome OS and Android by shutdown+-p+now · 2013-01-24 12:30 · Score: 1

I think you may have answered your own question. Developers want you to have to buy apps twice.
That is the reason for developers, not for Google. Why would Google want to placate developers rather than users here? Users are the ones who buy devices and provide eyeballs for ads. Furthermore, developers will still write apps for Android, just because it is already popular.
Also, while developers might want users to buy apps twice, they don't want to have to write them twice for two completely different platforms (and even languages).

The other reason for developers to target Chrome Web Store is that they can sell to users of Chrome for Windows, Chrome for Mac, and Chrome for Linux
I know a lot of people using Chrome on Windows and OS X, and none of them have even a single Chrome app installed. What's the point? Those things look and feel foreign on those respective platforms, and on those which provide their own delivery systems (Windows Store on Win8, Mac App Store on OS X), Chrome apps don't integrate with them. And the selection is very lackluster. As a user, I don't see the point of it at all. As a developer, I don't see a point of targeting something the users don't care about.

How not? I run Chrome on my Android tablet, or at least a subset of Chrome that Google calls Chrome.
Chrome for Android is touch-oriented, yes. Is ChromeOS? It has a bunch of UI outside of the browser itself.
Re:Segmenting market into Chrome OS and Android by Hognoxious · 2013-01-24 19:00 · Score: 1

Developers want you to have to buy apps twice.

I want a threesome with Lucy Lawless & Kate Winslet.

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Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Re:Segmenting market into Chrome OS and Android by FatRichie · 2013-01-25 05:58 · Score: 1

>> - and then buy the same (or similar) apps for each of them twice?

I may be misunderstanding what you're getting at here, but when I buy an app for any one of my Android devices, it becomes available for download on all of my Android devices (they're all registered with my same Google account). Admittedly, I buy my apps through Google Play or Amazon App Store.
Re:Segmenting market into Chrome OS and Android by shutdown+-p+now · 2013-01-25 06:20 · Score: 1

We were talking about market segmentation between Android and ChromeOS - presumably, Android for smartphones and tablets, ChromeOS for laptops (including convertibles). Those two things have completely different APIs, so the same app simply won't run on both. They also use different app stores. So if you have an Android tablet and a ChromeOS laptop, you have to buy apps separately for each one.

Upgrade? Fork? by Jmc23 · 2013-01-24 11:43 · Score: 1

Am I missing something or isn't this just using Fragments? Possible with ActivityGroups in prior versions as well.

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How does multi-window break the CTS? by tepples · 2013-01-24 11:45 · Score: 2

multiwindow fundamentally breaks the Android CTS

How so? I tried Google multi-window android compatibility test suite and found this article that claims that the only reason CyanogenMod with Cornerstone doesn't pass the CTS is that CyanogenMod isn't bundled with a device.

Re:How does multi-window break the CTS? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-25 01:44 · Score: 0

He made the whole thing up and got modded up. Nothing he said was true.
Re:How does multi-window break the CTS? by Andy+Dodd · 2013-01-29 05:47 · Score: 1

Wrong. The "not bundled with a device" is why CM has not FORMALLY had the CTS run against it.
HOWEVER: Cornerstone would have GUARANTEED a CTS failure if CM with Cornerstone had been put through a formal CTS run. If something is GUARANTEED to cause CTS to fail if it were to be run, it is justification for Google to attempt to blacklist CM from the Play Store.
There's a difference between "has not passed CTS because it hasn't been formally run" and "could not possibly, under any means, pass CTS".
CM is currently in the former state, and Google is OK with this. CM with Cornerstone would have been in the latter category, which Google is NOT OK with.

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retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Re:How does multi-window break the CTS? by tepples · 2013-01-29 08:39 · Score: 1

Then let me rephrase my question in light of your comment: What part of the CTS would CM with Cornerstone be GUARANTEED to fail?
Re:How does multi-window break the CTS? by Andy+Dodd · 2013-01-29 10:40 · Score: 1

Read Dianne Hackborn's comments in the G+ thread linked from the article you posted. Her first comment is pretty high level, later on she goes into deeper detail about exactly how it breaks the CDD/CTS.
https://plus.google.com/100275307499530023476/posts/ViCME1bb8F6 for the lazy (can't directly link to a comment though...)
You'll also see a comment from Steve that says what I said above but in a different way: "CM does pass the CTS, but not in any official context. For that, you need to have hardware to go with your software." - In short, CM can pass the tests, but to actually get certified, a complete system (hardware/software) must go through official/formal testing with Google's cooperation.
The most relevant part, eventually, is:
"Ultimately here is what we would probably tell anyone wanting to ship this modification with Market (which would need a compatibility exception because as we both agree it is not entirely compatible with the CDD/CTS): all existing apps must run on a screen that never changes in size, which is compatible with the sizes specified by the CDD. This means for you probably all existing apps running full-screen (you could probably have your panels slide out on top of them as long as they don't impact the display size seen by the app). You can have a custom API for applications to opt in to your experience (for example a meta-data tag in their manifest), but they must explicitly opt in to any such changes in behavior, and not by you assuming they might work because they support both landscape and portrait."
This is what Samsung did - except instead of by using a custom API for apps to opt-in, Samsung hardcoded a whitelist into the framework.

--
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?

When can I sudo apt-get install android-libs? by tepples · 2013-01-24 11:54 · Score: 1

There are several toolkits for developing Linux apps, and popular ones such as Qt and GTK+ are just an apt-get away. If Android were ported, it could be used as such a toolkit. Let me know when I can sudo apt-get install a toolkit to run Android apps on a major desktop Linux distribution.

Re:When can I sudo apt-get install android-libs? by Clovert+Agent · 2013-01-24 22:27 · Score: 1

Let me know when I can sudo apt-get install a toolkit to run Android apps on a major desktop Linux distribution.
sudo apt-get install eclipse - the SDK includes an emulator.

Source code and output side-by-side by tepples · 2013-01-24 11:56 · Score: 1

While the window does have its uses, I find most of the time I want a single app operating full screen. Additional apps are sometimes useful and I tend to fit them on a second window,but on the whole I find switching between apps using the taskbar is a lot more useful.

Would you want to have to always switch between full-screen windows showing a program's source code and the compiler's error messages, or the source code and the program's output? I don't know about you, but I prefer seeing them side by side.

Re:Source code and output side-by-side by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 13:28 · Score: 0

'But my browser has a plug-in that lets you view two or more tabs side-by-side. I can have the code open in one tab and the output in another while keeping the browser full-screened. No switching required.'
I hate UI "advancements".
Re:Source code and output side-by-side by 91degrees · 2013-01-24 20:05 · Score: 1

No. I'd prefer this to be tiled. Overlapping windows appear to be the worst of both worlds.

Switching between them isn't actually as bad as you seem to think. This was how I worked with Watcom C++. Gave a nice large amount of screen real estate for editing.

They don't make 10" laptops anymore by tepples · 2013-01-24 12:02 · Score: 1

Needing multiple windows on a tablet or phone means you are using it wrong, or really want to be using a laptop.

I do want to be using a laptop, but they don't make 10" laptops anymore. Only tablets remain in that size range according to a Slashdot story from a month ago.

Google doesn't support FOSS "freedom to modify" by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 12:49 · Score: 0

Agreed, new functionality is progress. If someone doesn't like a particular variant of Android, just don't buy the device that has it.

What's more, multiple windows on Android tablets are absolutely essential. What is this, 1980 again? Google's position is ludicrous for 2013.

What's more, Google's attitude towards Android modifications is especially worrying. Is Android open source or isn't it? If it is then "freedom to modify" is one of the core freedoms, and Google can go screw themselves if they don't like it. Perhaps they should choose a proprietary license ... let's see how far that will get them.

As things stand, they want to have their cake and eat it too. Well that won't fly, Google, sorry. Get with the programme. It's extremely good for the Android ecosystem to see a lot of evolution by 3rd parties, and you're being utterly blinkered.

making it more complicated is easy by johnrpenner · 2013-01-24 13:07 · Score: 1

keeping it simple is the hard part.

How retro, just one task view at a time by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 13:38 · Score: 0

A 10" tablet *is* a laptop in a modern form factor. Google's problem is that it's living in the past and wants us to do our work through the keyhole of a single window. Their total preoccupation with app store growth is turning them technically myopic.

It's as if we still lived in pre-X11 times and only had VT consoles, one screen at a time. It's beyond retarded, a total Google fail.

Okay. Listen up, device makers: by EmagGeek · 2013-01-24 13:53 · Score: 1

Listen to me carefully. This is important.

A phone is a phone
A PC is a PC

A phone is not a PC
A PC is not a phone

Got it?

Good.

What CornerStone / Multi-window are actually for by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-24 18:53 · Score: 0

Actually the main usage scenario I see for these multi-window things is fixing the recent tvdpi mess for stone age apps that are more or less designed for fixed resolutions & don't scale properly.

Since those apps expect tiny resolutions, why don't we give them just that? Nexus 7 has enough screen real estate for running 4 of them older apps, all visible concurrently.

l read it wrong by lwriemen · 2013-01-25 01:06 · Score: 1

I thought by MS-Windows like, they meant it crashed or hung a lot.

Order of magnitude emulation overhead by tepples · 2013-01-25 03:02 · Score: 1

the SDK includes an emulator.

The rule of thumb is that emulation uses roughly ten times the CPU power (and thus battery power) compared to native code. I was under the impression that the emulator included with the Android SDK ran Android apps slowly and/or used excessive electric power. This is fine for development on a desktop machine but may be unusably slow or result in an unusably short battery life for production use on, say, a laptop or convertible tablet PC. I was hoping for something that would sit side-by-side with GTK+ and run Dalvik-only and x86-recompiled apps natively, more like Wine.

Doorway amnesia by tepples · 2013-01-25 03:25 · Score: 1

I prefer seeing them side by side.

No. I'd prefer this to be tiled.

That's what I meant: the side-by-side view that results from the Snap feature in Windows 7 and several Linux window managers or from clicking one taskbar entry, Ctrl+right clicking another, and choosing Tile Vertically in Windows XP. Even on a netbook with a 10" 1024x600 pixel display, I can have an 80-column editor window and an 80-column output window open at once.

Switching between them isn't actually as bad as you seem to think.

I've tried doing various thoughtful tasks with the input on one full-screen application and the output on another full-screen application, or by comparing two documents in two different full-screen applications, and the act of switching between them caused me to lose my train of thought in much the same way as doorway amnesia, as I've mentioned before. It'd be like having a desk that's big enough for only one book, and whenever you want to look at a different book, you need to put away one book and open the other one. If maximization-induced doorway amnesia is a disability, then the use of tiled windows or overlapping windows as needed has been an assistive technology. Consider that in some Star Trek spinoffs, characters were seen using multiple PADD tablets to study multiple documents. Eventually we can look forward to tablets being that cheap, but until then, splitting is probably the best way to handle it.

This was how I worked with Watcom C++.

And I worked differently. I seem to remember that in RHIDE, an old DOS-based IDE for GCC inspired by Borland Turbo C, I could reserve the top two-thirds of the 80x50-character screen for a source code file and the bottom third for compiler diagnostics that I'd tackle one at a time.

Re:Doorway amnesia by 91degrees · 2013-01-25 21:39 · Score: 1

Good point on the doorway amnesia. Honestly, I think it's only the cascading windows that I dislike. Similar issues to the taskbar, but takes up more screen space. And really, my complaint is not with windows in general but overuse. It's a widget with specific purpose.

I do agree that the way DOS based IDEs worked pretty well. Totally in favour of tiling. In fact, while it's unpopular to say positive things about Windows 8 on Slashdot, I think they way Microsoft do this in the UI was actually pretty good.

Let the bugging commence by tepples · 2013-01-30 04:04 · Score: 1

Dianne Hackborn wrote:

You can have a custom API for applications to opt in to your experience (for example a meta-data tag in their manifest), but they must explicitly opt in to any such changes in behavior

So there is enough hope for tiled windows on Android to change my standard netbook vs. tablet spiel. The first step is bugging Google or Douche to create a "flexible screen size" feature that developers can enable through metadata; the second is bugging developers to enable it.

Andy Dodd wrote:

This is what Samsung did - except instead of by using a custom API for apps to opt-in, Samsung hardcoded a whitelist into the framework.

So how does Samsung expect developers to request addition of their applications to the tiled window whitelist?

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Samsung Amps Up Its Multi-Window Android Upgrade

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