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Why a Linux User Is Using Windows 3.1
colinneagle writes "About two weeks back, I was using my Android tablet and looking for a good graphics editor. I wanted something with layers and good text drawing tools. That's when it hit me. We already have that. Photoshop used to run on Windows 3.1. And Windows 3.1 runs great under both DOSBox and QEMU, both of which are Open Source emulators available for Android and every other platform under the sun. So I promptly set to work digging up an old copy of Photoshop. The last version released for Windows 3.1 was back in 1996. And finding a working copy proved to be...challenging. Luckily, the good folks at Adobe dug around in their vaults and managed to get me up and running. And, after a bit of tweaking, I ended up with an astoundingly functional copy of Photoshop that I can now run on absolutely every device I own. And the entire environment (fonts, working files and all) are automatically backed up to the cloud and synced between systems. But what other applications (and, potentially, games) does this give me access to? How far can I take this?"
TERMINAL APPLICATION ERROR
I use tons of "old" software every day. I use a copy of Paint Shop Pro from the 90's. I use DVD Shrink from about a decade ago. Windows XP still runs my entire business. It doesn't wear out. Congratulations to one more person for realizing that they don't have to have the latest and greatest software to be productive.
I don't respond to AC's.
So that's your solution? Buy a Surface Pro? He already has a tablet and used it to meet his needs by spending $0.
Try to setup and use OS/2 Warp 3.0.
THE BEST environment to run Win16 and Win32s Applications I ever had.
This beast used to run CorelDraw WITHOUT A SINGLE CRASH for hours. Honest.
(I still have my very own original Box, witth the CDs and the instructions about how to use GOPHER to fetch that fantastic Nescape 3.0 for OS/2!)
Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
The answers to your questions are answered in the summary in part, and in the article in full. Perhaps you could try reading either or both?
Anyway, he's a tech writer, so I assume it would be easier for him to call up Adobe and say, "Hey, I'm working on this hilarious project, do you happen to have..." This probably would not work for you and me. Plus, he's not a FOSS luddite, he has written several articles on using old software. The first paragraph of one about DOS:
Every now and then a new piece of hardware, or software, is released that causes me to pause and think, "Why, on Earth, do we update our tech so often? What, exactly, can I do with the latest stuff that wasn’t possible with the previous version?"
So that should answer that question.
my, your, his/her/its, our, your, their
I'm, you're, he's/she's/it's, we're, you're, they're
So, let me get this straight... Instead of running an NES emulator directly on your Android tablet (and there are plenty such emulators available), you're going to run an NES emulator on top of Windows 3.1 on top of DOS inside of an x86 emulator on top of Android?
You must be new here.
Learn something new.
Unfortunately, the version of Photoshop that was released in 1996 is still better than the current version of GIMP.
Switching from Photoshop to GIMP is like switching languages, it's going to be a bumpy transition if you try to get things done right away.
I guess what I'm saying is that they do the same things, but in very different ways. If the tech writer can get Win 3.1 up and running on his Android tablet in a couple days it is still better than spending weeks trying to re-learn everything you "know" in Photoshop in GIMP
Yeah, but then the problem is, then you have to run Windows 8.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Why is colinneagle so important that Adobe was willing to dig up 17 year old software for him to help out on something that is impractical and only has a "Gee whiz" factor going for it? I'm hardly an Adobe expert, but my limited experience is that like any normal software vendor they are trying to get people on the latest and greatest, not make stuff from 17 years ago still work. I guess it's fantastic for him that this works, but given how hard it would be for John Q. Public to find Windows 3.1 and probably also to find an ancient copy of Photoshop, this is starting to sound like a bit of a taunt on how he was able to do something that almost nobody else will be able to do.
What is it with all you free market anti-nerds?? Your solution isn't "use your brain to hack out a solution," It's "SPEND MONEY! WE LOVE MONEY! WE WORSHIP MONEY!"
I'm annoyed at this stupid attitude. Did you get here by mistake, thinking it was Forbes or Business Week? We're nerds. We don't buy solutions, we create them. My hat is off to the guy you're putting down, a creative solution to a problem. If your answer to problems is always "pull out the credit card" you are at the wrong site.
Free Martian Whores!
Says something about Gimp, doesn't it?
What, exactly, can I do with the latest stuff that wasn’t possible with the previous version?
For one thing, you can continue to use it after the hardware compatible with the previous version has failed. I've been told that a lot of new laptops sold with Windows 8 have Wi-Fi chips with no Windows 7 driver.
For another, you can exchange documents with users of later versions. After a particular version of a program reaches its announced end of life, the program's publisher stops making plug-ins to read the latest version's file format. (Some publishers don't release such plug-ins at all.) Try opening a modern PSD in the old Photoshop for Windows 3.1 and see what error message doesn't pop up.
For another, you can continue to use supported software on the public Internet even after a researcher has discovered security vulnerabilities because supported software gets patched.
Once I had to run an NES emulator inside a GBA emulator on Windows because the GBA emulator had better AVI output support than the NES emulators that were popular at the time.
We're nerds. We don't buy solutions, we create them.
Absolutely true for nerds. But some of us are geeks. We'll buy stuff if it's the best solution given the requirements (sometimes with extreme prejudice).
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
So that's your solution? Buy a Surface Pro? He already has a tablet and used it to meet his needs by spending $0.
Last I checked, neither Windows 3.1 or Photoshop are free.
This is back when "I can see from some of the pixels" was a valid complaint.
source:
I have seen quite a few shops in my day.
Not really.
Although it does say something about people that like to pretend that they are Photoshop users.
I am sure that the professional artists that actually use Photoshop and don't just talk about Photoshop aren't nearly as thick.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I enjoy and "old fashioned" any day, but since if you've upgraded to a Fleshlight, Girlfriend, Mistress or Wife, why go back other than just for nostalgia and shits and giggles?
Woah there, little fella.
The order goes hand, fleshlight, girlfriend, wife, THEN mistress, then quickly back to hand.
We're nerds. We don't buy solutions, we create them.
There is a reason nerds have to create solutions.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
Wow... these comments make up a lot of assumptions about my character. What's with all the hostility? One guy called me a cunt! What's next, threats?
Look, you can cobble together a solution for yourself, nothing is wrong with that. I wasn't intending to make it sounds like that was a bad thing.
I'm just saying, pay attention to when you have to do it and you'll see some room for potential invention. The old tablets were a solution looking for a problem - we wern't ready for them yet, and they wern't really good enough for us yet. Now that we're getting used to tablets with the new, cheap consumer oriented models, we're looking for something with more power. We're cobling together our own solutions. I recognize the Surface Pro because I really want one (fuck me right?), it has a pressure sensitive stylus, the same HD4000 from the Mac Mini's, and a real version of Windows that can run both the new and old style of programs. I believe now is the time for just such a device, and the field is wide open on that platform as far as applications are concerned.
You guys can downvote me if you want, it doesn't bother me because I know it's a knee jerk reaction against M$ and capitalists or whatever and I wasn't even thinking about it like that.
No we are not talking about pirating. You are talking about Pirating. That's not my thing.
SPEND MONEY! WE LOVE MONEY! WE WORSHIP MONEY!
Once you grow up, you realize that's frequently the equivalent of:
SAVE TIME! WE LOVE TIME! WE WORSHIP TIME!
Considering how awful most people consider Windows 8 anytime anyone makes a post mentioning that they like or would recommend Windows 8 to anyone the first thought is Shill.
It's a knee jerk reaction, and although Windows 8 sucks in so many ways, I can understand that you aren't a shill, you just like something that everyone who has used considers crap.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
Every so often you see someone driving a '70s F250 Hi Boy, or a mid 80s K20, or an early 90s Dodge Cummins. But hint: they are rare
Cars wear out, and parts become increasingly difficult to find.
I'd still be driving my 81 Rabbit Diesel if it hadn't worn out and cost more to fix than it was worth.
Software doesn't wear out, though occasionally it does benefit from a re-install, which can be done for free.
Your Sun Ultra 60 example isn't even about software -- it's about hardware. And like cars, hardware wears out.
Mostly, I'm just saying that your analogy isn't very apt, as software and hardware are *very* different in this respect.
Of course, software suffers from not keeping up with the world around it. Office 97 is quite functional, but it can't load documents saved by newer versions of Office unless they explicitly saved in an old format, so that keeps people from using it even though it fits all their needs because of the people around them. But if your application doesn't require that you share files with others in incompatible formats, Office 97 may be just what you need.
Personally, I have to say "good for you" for the guy using the old Photoshop under Windows 3.1 under WINE. Though I would probably suggest that if Adobe hadn't been able to help him, the warez (or abandonwarez?) sites probably could.
What an interesting question, I've done that before, mostly out of nostalgia. And, of course, frustration with the upgrade treadmill.
There's essentially nothing you can't do with a 16-bit windows, it's what people worked with and played with, so there's a bit of everything .
You should install Win32s, WinG, Video for Windows, Trumpet Winsock.
Honestly I'm surprised you found it hard to track down old software, there's a pretty huge scene around it.
You can get pretty much every OS and application here: http://winworldpc.com/library_m1.shtml
This is also a great site to get old software: http://www.oldversion.com/
Moar: http://wiki.oldos.org/Downloads/Windows3x
http://gaby.de/win3x/esoft.htm
There are some surprisingly modern browsers available for 3.1, grab Opera 3.62 (also Netscape 4 and IE 5.5), and try Calmira for a Win9x type of GUI running under 3.1 - put the default XP wallpaper on that, and you will fool a lot of people :)
I once hacked XP to natively run the NT 3.51 shell on startup, instead of Windows Explorer. It wasn't hard.
DOSBox sucks for Windows, though, you should probably just run a VM, added performance. You can find some Windows games on abandonware sites, Civilization 2 was a good one :)
http://www.gameswin.biz/gameen.php?id=379
Let me know if you need anything else, would love to have a chat with a fellow enthusiast.
"Why, on Earth, do we update our tech so often? What, exactly, can I do with the latest stuff that wasn’t possible with the previous version?"
I think in most ways we are coming to better terms with this. Long Rant Warning. Every so often you see someone driving a '70s F250 Hi Boy, or a mid 80s K20, or an early 90s Dodge Cummins. .....
Yes, we can find examples from virtually every walk of life.....
BUT, you got lost in your car analogy, and never made it back to the point of the question.
Lots of safety, fuel efficiency, and rust-out problems force vehicle upgrades.
But about the only thing forcing computer upgrades is the user's desire for more speed. You can still find all the parts of old windows 3.1 era machines. And there are still places in the world where Windows 98 is commonly run, on ancient gear. You can "repair" it piecemeal with newer software, even newer disk drives, making it still a viable email and web surfing machine. For users who do that, and pretty much only that, sitting on the end of a dial-up line in some rural African town its all you need.
The answer to the original question is we upgrade our tech because we can. Because we see a benefit in doing so of ease of use, saving of time, and being able to do things that the old tech simply could not do. Because we see a benefit in portability, and smaller size. And lets face it, the old computers and the old software just wasn't as good as we seem to remember, and neither was the F250 Hi Boy.
Even the old fart shooing whippersnappers off his digital lawn is as likely to do so from a laptop or tablet at his couch rather than from the computer that monopolizing his desk, which monopolizes his spare bedroom.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
"All problems in computer science can be solved by another level of indirection."
... except for the problem of too many layers of indirection."
Except that this user may end up running into Henney's Corollary: "
"Ahh! I see you're in that indeterminate Schrodinger state where - oh, uh
I wouldn't wipe my filthy ass with a fuckin' Microsoft Surface Pro
Neither would I- they're hard and not remotely absorbent.
I got board in a windows server class and installed BOB on Windows Server 2008 with a bit of hacking and assigned all everything a piece of furniture. Ah good times.
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
Funny way to spell consumer.
By your definition everyone would be a geek.
We're nerds. We don't buy solutions, we create them.
Or more commonly, nerds run around trying to find problems for their current favorite solution.
Gimp is getting some good competition from Krita now. The image editing application that is part of Calligra Suite with a focus on painting is very active with many releases. It has CMYK support, tons of filters and brushes and an active community of artists. And there is a tablet version called Krita Sketch.
DNA is the ultimate spaghetti code.
Vista, 7 and 8 all use the same driver model. The only thing I can think of that would prevent a 8 driver working on 7 would be if the required manufacturer signing on the more recent 64-bit drivers was purposely not done for 7. There is no technical reason for such a decision, obviously...
I have not investigated whether it is possible to run unsigned 64-bit drivers on recent Windows versions.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
By your definition everyone would be a geek.
Nope - 'everyone' buys solutions, but only after they're told they exist and their choices are often sub-optimal and driven by poor information. Geeks figure out needs and acquire (buy/beg/build) the best solutions for the given requirements (not uncommonly combining multiple unrelated COTS solutions to form another). At least those who are allowed to keep their cards, anyway.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
The typical "blue screen" error message in windows 3.1 was "Unexpected Application Error". This was before the days where each application had it's own memory space, so it usually required you to exit windows, or worse, reboot.
It is but you have to reboot into a special mode that allows installing unsigned drivers
//m