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What You Can Do About the Phone Unlocking Fiasco

itwbennett writes "Now that the ridiculous phone unlocking law is a done deal, and we all understand exactly what that means (i.e., 'fines of up to $500,000 and imprisonment of up to five years'), you might be left wondering what can you do about it. Well, you could start by lending your John Hancock to this petition at the White House's 'We The People' platform. It's already over halfway to the number of signatures required to get a response from the executive branch."

416 comments

  1. Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Penguinisto · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...seriously - even if it got 500,000 signatures, I doubt the White house will do a damned thing about it. The law would have to be reversed by Congress, and right now, even if Obama wanted to, he's going to save his political capital for those fights which advance his own goals

    --
    Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    1. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      What if Obama's iPhone 5S platinum plus edition is locked to AT&T, but he wants to use BOOST MOBILE? Then this would be a fight which advances his own goals.

    2. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      The man rakes in way north of $400k a year from just his paycheck and subsequent pension... do you seriously think he's going to quibble over a $300 ETF?

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    3. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If reversing this law costs Obama anymore more than some token political capital, that says more about how fucked up this law is than anything else.

    4. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Nyder · · Score: 2

      What if Obama's iPhone 5S platinum plus edition is locked to AT&T, but he wants to use BOOST MOBILE? Then this would be a fight which advances his own goals.

      If the President of the United States of America wants his phone unlocked, I don't see AT&T telling him no.

      --
      Be seeing you...
    5. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure BOOST MOBILE would be happy to give him a "BOOST MOBILE" edition iPhone for free. ;)

    6. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      What if Obama's iPhone 5S platinum plus edition is locked to AT&T, but he wants to use BOOST MOBILE? Then this would be a fight which advances his own goals.

      I'm sure the president would instead buy it outright from the Apple store, thus getting an unlocked phone to begin with.

      It's probably a joke that Apple is one of the few stores selling unlocked phones. The Samsung store won't sell you phones, neither does Sony nor Microsoft... they just chase you to a carrier store so you can buy the locked one.

    7. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Mitreya · · Score: 2

      The law would have to be reversed by Congress, and right now, even if Obama wanted to, he's going to save his political capital for those fights which advance his own goals

      And there is very little reason to think Obama will want to.
      White House has not been taking these petitions seriously -- the "build a death star" petition got a much (much!) more thorough and well-written response than "legalize pot" or "ban TSA" petitions. This tells me quite a bit about the expected petition impact.

    8. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What if Obama's iPhone 5S platinum plus edition is locked to AT&T, but he wants to use BOOST MOBILE?

      Then he's still SOL.
      AT&T uses GSM, Boost (Sprint) uses CDMA.

      captcha: enabler

    9. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's always better to never do anything when it comes to civic responsibilities. The minute or two it takes to click on the indicated link and add my name is pointless. In that time I can pick my nose and scratch my balls -- much more productive.

      You probably were too busy watching movies or catching up on a backlog of comic books but a couple of weeks ago a guy named Aaron Schwartz committed suicide. It was and still is getting a lot of coverage in the media, more so by indie news sources but even some in the typically clueless beltway media. Anyway, he was a guy who dedicated his life to fighting for things like open access to information. He was one of the few who wouldn't quit talking about SOPA/PIPA until the rest of the brain-dead news media finally woke up and saw it was a serious issue. He also got the establishment pissed off enough at him that it targeted him as a threat to their power structure so they bullied him enough that he eventually took his own life. So yeah, let's all do nothing about this phone locking issue, that's just what Big Telecom wants us to do -- be complacent, bend over, and take it.

    10. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by irving47 · · Score: 1

      Check congress' record on things like the can-spam act, the regs. on manipulating volume during commercials, and most importantly, the do not call list creation... They sometimes act on "easy" consumer-rights type stuff... AT&T and Verizon surely have their hooks in deep, but they're the only ones who benefit from locked phones and their arguments are running out. Especially with the ETF fees in place.

      --
      I had a sucky sig.
    11. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by ireallyhateslashdot · · Score: 1

      How is this racist?

    12. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Lincolnshire+Poacher · · Score: 1

      If the President of the United States of America wants his phone unlocked, I don't see AT&T telling him no.

      Why not? You don't have royalty or nobility in the USA, remember. Not like us in backward, Old World Britain.

    13. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by deoxyribonucleose · · Score: 5, Funny

      I wasn't aware that sucking up to the rich and mighty was exclusively predicated on hereditary feudalism. That's a relief. Let's everybody go tell their bosses exactly how we feel about them!

    14. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You don't have royalty or nobility in the USA, remember.

      Well, in earlier times, royalty was measured by how blue the contents of your veins was. Today, it's measured by how green the contents of your wallet is. The net result is pretty much the same. Sure, in theory the law treats you equally, but you really think that you are equal, with equal chances?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    15. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Genda · · Score: 1

      Hell with Congress, the Big O is standing smack dab next to JOE BIDEN, a man whose nose is so deeply buried in the crack of service corporations that he can accurately determine whether or not they're brushing the backs of their teeth!

    16. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Genda · · Score: 1

      And then enjoy all that sudden new free time... you wanted to lose a little weight for 2013, boy have I got a plan for you!

    17. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Indeed. In the New World all men are equal. Of course, some men are more equal than others.

    18. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by stephanruby · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Also, we're acting defensively when we should be going on the offensive instead. Reinstating our rights to unlock our phones is not enough.

      The locking of phones by carriers should be made illegal in the first place. Our airways are a public good. They're part of our public infrastructure. They're just like our public roads. As a society, we get to set the rules of the road, or update them as need be. The locking of phones may have been ok in the beginning, but this is a business practice that needs to stop right now.

    19. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The locking of phones may have been ok in the beginning, but this is a business practice that needs to stop right now.

      Ever wonder why you can't file your taxes at irs.gov?

      In the 1990s the IRS wanted to let you file your taxes online as you currently can do in many other countries. It would have been faster, more secure, and cost less to process than paper-based filing. The infrastructure was there already. In short, it totally made sense in every way.

      That's when lobbyists for Intuit, H&R Block, and the other tax preparation software manufacturers jumped in. The result? A "compromise" that maintains their business model. Only they can file returns electronically. In return, they have to provide their software (albeit crippled) to a portion of the country that is taxed on less than $57K a year.

      Never heard of this? That's how they like it.

      The point is that the government is so vulnerable to lobbying that it will enforce any cartel's business model no matter how absurd nor how much it wastes taxpayer's time and money.

      I wonder if a petition called "Allow all citizens to file their taxes directly to the IRS" would make a difference. Somehow I doubt it. But prove me wrong.

    20. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1

      The Samsung store won't sell you phones, neither does Sony nor Microsoft... they just chase you to a carrier store so you can buy the locked one.

      Then vote with your wallet and buy from people who still value freedom. You'll save a boatload of money and get a better product to boot.

      http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?jump=kwref&isFirstJump=y&SearchText=android%2Bphones&CatId=5090301&g=n&manual=y

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    21. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because he mentioned Obama without blatantly singing his praises. Hence: Racism.

    22. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What if Obama's iPhone 5S platinum plus edition is locked to AT&T, but he wants to use BOOST MOBILE? Then this would be a fight which advances his own goals.

      If the President of the United States of America wants his phone unlocked, I don't see AT&T telling him no.

      Then I don't see me losing in court with my lawsuit against AT&T....for telling me no.

    23. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, we're acting defensively when we should be going on the offensive instead. Reinstating our rights to unlock our phones is not enough.

      The locking of phones by carriers should be made illegal in the first place. Our airways are a public good. They're part of our public infrastructure. They're just like our public roads. As a society, we get to set the rules of the road, or update them as need be. The locking of phones may have been ok in the beginning, but this is a business practice that needs to stop right now.

      The only thing that needs to stop right now is the apathy that has let this happen in the first place, which will continue to allow it to happen.

      You are 100% correct here with your statements, but yelling and screaming isn't going to do a damn thing if the only ones within earshot are the few of us who have been left stranded on GiveAShit island.

    24. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just. Stop. Supporting. Corrupt. Psychopaths.

      Captcha: invalids

    25. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by 1s44c · · Score: 1

      If the President of the United States of America wants his phone unlocked, I don't see AT&T telling him no.

      Why not? You don't have royalty or nobility in the USA, remember. Not like us in backward, Old World Britain.

      The President has a personal army paid for by the state, he can pardon convicts based on nothing but his word. The only difference between the President and old world royalty is that presidents get changed every few years.

    26. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The law would have to be reversed by Congress, and right now, even if Obama wanted to, he's going to save his political capital for those fights which advance his own goals

      No action by congress is required. This is a perfect application of White House solicitation, because the "law" is an administrative policy set out by the Library of Congress. Congress passed the DMCA, but gave LOC authority to define a set of exceptions where circumventing copyright protection methods is "OK." Classroom use; security testing; broken dongle. DMCA is intended to prevent copyrighted material from being duplicated or used outside of the license terms, and LOC has now decided that using your phone's firmware and operating system (even Android) is subject not only to the license provided by your phone's manufacturer, but also to any contract with the phone's retailer, even after that contract expires.

    27. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by BlueStrat · · Score: 2

      The only difference between the President and old world royalty is that presidents get changed every few years.

      http://rt.com/usa/news/president-amendment-bill-repeal-541/

      There is some effort being made to eliminate that distinction.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    28. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by flyneye · · Score: 1

      The whole petition thing is garbage anyway. It exists as a freebie opinion poll for the WHITE HOUSES BENEFIT, not the people.
      Of course it ties your personal information to an opinion in a government database. So go ahead add to you official government file and let them know you are a malcontent. LOL , as if Obama really gave a damn about what the people want, except in terms of his popularity. Suckers!

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    29. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by DarkOx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If some petty functionary in a law enforcement agency asks AT&T to do what under current rules is illegal wire tapping they don't blink. They will do whatever the president asks and Congress will just grant them retro-active immunity if there is any problem on their side. The President has already placed himself above the law time and time again and with his party having the majority in the Senate that is not going to be challenged. If Obutthead wants his phone unlocked it will be.

      The more interesting question is can congress even grant retroactive immunity? The president has the power of pardon so its clear that Bush or Obama could shielded AT&T in the wiretap cases but can Congress? Article I Section 9, contains the text "No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed". I think the intellectually honest among us would say that even a laws that prevents the enforcement of a law enforce at the time the act was committed is ex post facto.

      We will never know though because of the "standing trap" which is another gross miscarriage of the notion of rule of law. "You can't sue us for violating your fourth amendment rights because you can't reasonably know first if we did or not" had to be one of the most morally and intellectually bankrupt arguments ever to fly to the date it was made; and then Obama just kept talking...

       

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    30. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 0

      How is unlocking a phone a right?

      I agree with the sentiment, but here in New York, I pass by several scummy electronics shops who sell unlocking services for phones.

      Do they have a right to do this? Somehow I don't think so.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    31. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by gmuslera · · Score: 2

      Is not exactly how green. In fact, is a data design flaw. Laws are coded using the personal data, and wealth is stored in a 24 bit integer. When the wealth field overflows, laws agrees on everything.

    32. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean like when the president's kids are protected by armed guards when they are at school and you are an extremist terrorist if you say you want your kids protected by an armed police officer at your school? And when the NRA puts on an ad explaining this an article comes out telling me the president's kids are more important than mine?

      Or how I'm not allowed to have personal armed security around me in NYC at my own expense, but the mayor has armed guards always in public?

      Wouldn't the "definition" of nobility be different rules for those in power then those not in power? How is this not currently the case in the USA?

    33. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you should voice your frustrations to the Administration. Maybe you could submit a petition?

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    34. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didn't buy DAT either.
      jr

    35. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by jittles · · Score: 2

      How is unlocking a phone a right?

      I agree with the sentiment, but here in New York, I pass by several scummy electronics shops who sell unlocking services for phones.

      Do they have a right to do this? Somehow I don't think so.

      Well if the GP had his way, you wouldn't need to go to one of those scummy electronic stores to get your phone unlocked in the first place. Secondly, you're paying for the phone either up front, or through an overpriced service plan. You bought it, you should be able to hack it to hell as long as it doesn't violate FCC regulations for causing harmful interference.

    36. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      New York Democratic Rep. Jose Serrano reintroduced the measure on January 4, after it did not make it to a floor vote in January 2011, the Daily Caller reports. Serrano has attempted to repeal the amendment for decades and proposed similar bills in 1997, 1999, 2001, 2003, 2005, and 2007.

      Not a very succesful effort, indeed.

    37. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rousseau said (paraphrased): "To all free peoples I leave this maxim: Liberty can be gained, but never regained [within the same republic/country]."

      Now that they outlawed unlocking any effort to unlock the phones will be criminal, any advocating of it will be advocating hacking and "stealing".

      They got away with it. Rather than fight against this, try and preserve other freedoms, because they seem to be disappearing when you're not looking.

    38. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...seriously - even if it got 500,000 signatures, I doubt the White house will do a damned thing about it. The law would have to be reversed by Congress, and right now, even if Obama wanted to, he's going to save his political capital for those fights which advance his own goals

      Which is why you should never participate in anything, ever.

      Just accidentally a hero and improve the world Penguinisto.

    39. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Ash+Vince · · Score: 1

      Also, we're acting defensively when we should be going on the offensive instead. Reinstating our rights to unlock our phones is not enough.

      The locking of phones by carriers should be made illegal in the first place. Our airways are a public good. They're part of our public infrastructure. They're just like our public roads. As a society, we get to set the rules of the road, or update them as need be. The locking of phones may have been ok in the beginning, but this is a business practice that needs to stop right now.

      Forgive me for being a Brit so not really understanding what this is all about, but is it not the case that when you buy a phone in the US you are buying it for a small fraction of the actual cost (or being given it free) under the condition that you only use it on their network and hence pay for the calls to the people who subsidised the phone? That is how it works over here.

      Also, we have this weird system where the all the transmitters and infrastructure that the phone uses to relay calls and data over were paid for by a private company in the first place, not government. They use the call cost to recuperate that as well. And on top of this they actually have to pay government for the electrical spectrum they use as well.

      I guess they could only use the calls to subsidise the infrastructure and make everyone actually buy their handsets upfront but over here that would be really unpopular with most people.

      It is actually possible to but an unlocked phone here but nobody does because the decent phones are too expensive like that. I know they could be made a crap load cheaper but most people I know would not even want to pay $250 up front for a phone (an iphone5 costs about $207 to produce), they would rather pay a small amount every month to cover it instead.

      --
      I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
    40. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      "Sure, in theory the law treats you equally, but you really think that you are equal, with equal chances?"

      All rich people are equal, but some are more equal than others.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    41. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 2

      The man rakes in way north of $400k a year from just his paycheck and subsequent pension... do you seriously think he's going to quibble over a $300 ETF?

      I thought your carrier could keep you from unlocking your phone (if they so chose) even after the termination of the contract. If a carrier isn't legally obligated to unlock your phone if you pay the ETF or let the contract expire -- and they decide they don't want to -- then unlocking it yourself would still be a case of breaking their DRM, right? And now that it's illegal for you to do it yourself, a company that was previously more "generous" might decide to get a little stingy just because they can.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    42. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by thejynxed · · Score: 1

      It's a common tactic to introduce bills like that to make your opinions known on certain topics to the wider House/Senate body, even when the bills have no chance of being passed ever.

      --
      @Mindless Drivel: 100% of Twitter posts ever Tweeted.
    43. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just another reason to use Android. Its Perfectly legal to jailbreak I.E. root your phone which allows you to then install and run a custom operating system which is non limiting and by doing so uninstalling the Carrier software that is illegal to alter the code of. Since you do not agree with their licensing terms you must uninstall the software which then allows you to install a custom ROM and then unlock a unrestricted non carrier software removed operating system thus not altering the carrier software and then unlock it..

    44. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is this funny?

    45. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://archive.org/details/NoneDareCallItConspiracy

    46. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not? he's not King, though he may act like he is, he's not any more special than any other americans, that is were we have failed, thinking an elected official is some how more important than an ordinary citizen. No he isn't any more special than anyone else, although he may run with that...

    47. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by nyteroot · · Score: 1

      This is absolutely false. The regulation was promulgated by the Register of Copyrights, who is an executive branch official.

      --
      Ratio of replies to old sig content : replies to actual post content > 0.5. Sig changed.
    48. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      The Samsung store won't sell you phones, neither does Sony nor Microsoft... they just chase you to a carrier store so you can buy the locked one.

      Then vote with your wallet and buy from people who still value freedom. You'll save a boatload of money and get a better product to boot.

      http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?jump=kwref&isFirstJump=y&SearchText=android%2Bphones&CatId=5090301&g=n&manual=y

      Well, if I wanted to buy online, I'd just go to play.google.com and be done with it, as well. (Though, if you're careful, you can find most carriers sell Nexus phones unlocked. There are few that unfortunately DO sell them locked...).

      At least Google doesn't look as sketchy as that site.

      But if you needed a phone NOW that's unlocked, running to the Apple Store seems to be one of the few options available. Though I think I saw Best Buy sells crappy older phones as unlocked as well (Say... a Nexus S era phone). And practically speaking, the real reason to need an unlocked phone is travelling overseas - great if you can plan it out, not so great if it's been dumped on your lap at the last minute and need it now.

      Oh, and a good reason carriers may not want you to unlock your phone while on contract? Roaming fees! They are extremely lucrative. It's also why a lot of carriers make it hard to sell a bare SIM card with service (T-mo being one of the few exceptions) - they'd rather you roam on their network and pay $$$$ than pick up a card and pay the local rate. Only in the EU and such where people buy phones separate from their service is it easier. But in the US... forget about it.

    49. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by berashith · · Score: 1

      the responses are worthless to any of these . All that is required is a response. So .. " I see that a small amount of people think something, good on you guys" covers the whole thing. YAY for us!

    50. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by c++0xFF · · Score: 1

      Forgive me for being a Brit so not really understanding what this is all about, but is it not the case that when you buy a phone in the US you are buying it for a small fraction of the actual cost (or being given it free) under the condition that you only use it on their network and hence pay for the calls to the people who subsidised the phone? That is how it works over here.

      We forgive you.

      You're close in how you understand this, but not quite. The condition under which subsidized phones are provided is usually a two-year contract with that carrier. The phone subsidy is repaid by the monthly fee over the life of the contract, regardless of how many phone calls are made and on which carrier. (In light of this, you would think that a carrier wouldn't mind and would even encourage making all your calls on another network, as long as you kept paying your monthly fee.)

      Interestingly, the carrier lock-in is not a condition of that two-year contract, but is in the basic terms of service. Thus, it has nothing to do with the phone subsidy, at least not directly.

      So, what we have is a system where the carrier offers a subsidized phone and locks the subscribers in for two years. When those two years are up, the subscriber can continue paying the same higher monthly rate, or get a new phone (and another two year contract), or switch to another carrier ... but you can't bring your phone with you. But that's fine, because the other carriers also offer the same system.

      So, here's where locking the phone benefits the carrier: it encourages people to stick with that carrier, paying the same monthly rate as if they were paying off a phone subsidy. It's that or lock into a contract and get a new phone every two years.

      In case you're wondering ... this system sucks for almost everyone but the carriers. People who want a new phone every two years (a lot of us, unfortunately) don't get hit quite as hard, but there are better systems for them, too.

      I should say that there are two major exceptions to this system: prepaid phones (which work closer to your thinking) and T-Mobile (which has a reduced monthly rate if you bring your own phone or can offer phone subsidies that are a separate line item on the bill that goes away after paying off the phone).

    51. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      I suspect that your average republican leaning citizen and your average democrat leaning citizen agree on this particular issue. If both sides make a full court press, it will get done. Everyone unlocks their god damn phones, not being able to tether wifi on my verizon phone even after they lost the damn court case, is asinine, and I don't put up with it, nor would anyone else.

      Wrap it up with military spending or social reform though, and it's a lost cause.

    52. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funniest shit I've read all year...

    53. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      "What you can do..."

      "'We The People' petition..."

      So then... Not a fucking thing?

      Business as usual.

    54. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich and the poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.

      - Anatole France

    55. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Forgive me for being a Brit so not really understanding what this is all about, but is it not the case that when you buy a phone in the US you are buying it for a small fraction of the actual cost (or being given it free) under the condition that you only use it on their network and hence pay for the calls to the people who subsidised the phone? That is how it works over here.

      Yes, that's part of the justification for locking phones.

      In the US, we also have the same rent-to-own system for paying for expensive electronic appliances and expensive furniture. Basically, in exchange for a subsidized appliance upfront, you end up paying over a two-year (or a three-year) period multiple times the normal retail price for that appliance. Of course for rent-to-own, only the people in the most extreme circumstances end up using that system, and the overwhelming 90% of the population wouldn't even think to enter a rent-to-own store.

      For cell phones in the US however, we're not given much of a choice even if we pay the full unsubsidized price. Technically, I could unlock my Verizon CDMA phone, or I could pay full retail price for a Verizon phone, or I could wait until the two years are up and ask that they unlock it for me, but that phone still wouldn't work on any GSM network, nor would it work on the Sprint/Nextel CDMA network. That's how CDMA works. It's a form of proprietary technology lock-in. Once unlocked, the most I could do with it is use it with PagePlus Cellular, or may be with Boost Mobile (assuming Boost Mobile even lets me), but that's only because those two outfits are subleasing the same Verizon CDMA network.

      The US is not like Europe. In Europe, the law says that all carriers must all standardize on the same technology. In the US, there is no such law. And even if I were to bring back a fully unsubsidized GSM phone from Asia, or Europe, my choices would be extremely limited in terms of US carriers that would even support that technology (and I'd be lucky for one to even cover adequately my normal geographical area).

    56. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First, it was Bush that initiated spying operations with AT&T. After they got caught, he pushed congress to grant AT&T retroactive immunity for its actions. Obama, as a Senator campaigning for the Presidency stopped his campaign, rushed back to Washington, D.C. , and voted in favor of the retroactive immunity.

      Second, the President is able to grant immunity for offenses against the United States. This is generally considered criminal offenses. The AT&T liability was a civil issue with statutory penalties of $700 per customer.

      Third, the ex post facto restriction in the constitution has long been held to apply only when creating liability. Congress can eliminate an offense after the fact.

    57. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The more interesting question is can congress even grant retroactive immunity? The president has the power of pardon so its clear that Bush or Obama could shielded AT&T in the wiretap cases but can Congress? Article I Section 9, contains the text "No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed". I think the intellectually honest among us would say that even a laws that prevents the enforcement of a law enforce at the time the act was committed is ex post facto.

      We will never know though because of the "standing trap" which is another gross miscarriage of the notion of rule of law. "You can't sue us for violating your fourth amendment rights because you can't reasonably know first if we did or not" had to be one of the most morally and intellectually bankrupt arguments ever to fly to the date it was made; and then Obama just kept talking...

      Uh, yeah, we will and already do know. The Supreme Court shut down your argument over 200 years ago, explicitly and unanimously. The case has never been even close to overturned. I think anyone being "intellectually honest" would concede that a case that has been controlling precedent since 1798, when the Court could literally have asked the framers what they meant since most of them were still alive, is the authoritative understanding of what the ex post facto clause means. Not what you think you learned in high school government class.

      "In my opinion, the true distinction is between ex post facto laws, and retrospective laws. Every ex post facto law must necessarily be retrospective; but every retrospective law is not an ex post facto law: The former, only, are prohibited.

      Every law that takes away, or impairs, rights vested, agreeably to existing laws, is retrospective, and is generally unjust; and may be oppressive; and it is a good general rule, that a law should have no retrospect: but there are cases in which laws may justly, and for the benefit of the community, and also of individuals, relate to a time antecedent to their commencement; as statutes of oblivion, or of pardon.

      They are certainly retrospective, and literally both concerning, and after, the facts committed. But I do not consider any law ex post facto, within the prohibition, that mollifies the rigor of the criminal law; but only those that create, or aggravate, the crime; or encrease the punishment, or change the rules of evidence, for the purpose of conviction."

      Calder v. Bull, 3 U.S. 386 (1798).

    58. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow you are one delusional neocon fuckhead aren't you?

    59. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      The law doesn't have to be reversed by congress (and of course it won't be, Mickey would throw a fit if Copyright law was overturned)
      What needs to happen, is convince people that we own the software in the phone, even if it is under contract.

    60. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Ash+Vince · · Score: 1

      Forgive me for being a Brit so not really understanding what this is all about, but is it not the case that when you buy a phone in the US you are buying it for a small fraction of the actual cost (or being given it free) under the condition that you only use it on their network and hence pay for the calls to the people who subsidised the phone? That is how it works over here.

      Yes, that's part of the justification for locking phones.

      In the US, we also have the same rent-to-own system for paying for expensive electronic appliances and expensive furniture. Basically, in exchange for a subsidized appliance upfront, you end up paying over a two-year (or a three-year) period multiple times the normal retail price for that appliance. Of course for rent-to-own, only the people in the most extreme circumstances end up using that system, and the overwhelming 90% of the population wouldn't even think to enter a rent-to-own store.

      For cell phones in the US however, we're not given much of a choice even if we pay the full unsubsidized price. Technically, I could unlock my Verizon CDMA phone, or I could pay full retail price for a Verizon phone, or I could wait until the two years are up and ask that they unlock it for me, but that phone still wouldn't work on any GSM network, nor would it work on the Sprint/Nextel CDMA network. That's how CDMA works. It's a form of proprietary technology lock-in. Once unlocked, the most I could do with it is use it with PagePlus Cellular, or may be with Boost Mobile (assuming Boost Mobile even lets me), but that's only because those two outfits are subleasing the same Verizon CDMA network.

      The US is not like Europe. In Europe, the law says that all carriers must all standardize on the same technology. In the US, there is no such law. And even if I were to bring back a fully unsubsidized GSM phone from Asia, or Europe, my choices would be extremely limited in terms of US carriers that would even support that technology (and I'd be lucky for one to even cover adequately my normal geographical area).

      Ok, so let me get this straight. If I emigrate to the US with my nice shiny new (unlocked, I bought it for £600 from expansys) Samsung Galaxy S3, I would be unable to go to a carrier an get a contract to use it on their network on a pay for calls only basis? Over here I can just use a pay-as-you go prepay account, do they not exist in the US?

      If what you say is right then no wonder you are all complaining so much.

      --
      I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
    61. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You american are crazy! :P

    62. Re:Hate to be a troll or anything, but... by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Ok, so let me get this straight. If I emigrate to the US with my nice shiny new (unlocked, I bought it for £600 from expansys) Samsung Galaxy S3, I would be unable to go to a carrier an get a contract to use it on their network on a pay for calls only basis?

      You'd really only have one real option and that's T-Mobile (thank god T-Mobile is still around and their takeover by AT&T was blocked by anti-trust regulations). Your phone could technically be used with AT&T as well, but AT&T wouldn't give you any discount for bringing in your own phone (nor will they give you the option to pay per call basis).

      And chances are, you may not even like the coverage area T-Mobile has to offer, or the terms they offer you, so you may end up enrolling with one of the cheaper smaller carriers and end up carrying two phones with you (and only using your Galaxy S3 when you're at coffee shops on free wifi).

  2. I don't get it. by Nikker · · Score: 1

    So we have this situation where let's say I get an iPhone 5, the iPhone 5 (16GB) runs at about $650, I sign up on a contract and pay approx $200 for a 3 year term. If I break the contract I have to pay around $400 to cancel my contract. So if I unlock my phone and goto another carrier how does that deprive the carrier of their 'investment' ?

    --
    A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
    1. Re:I don't get it. by Kenja · · Score: 2

      Because you didn't pay 650$, you paid 99$. If you get the 650$ version from Apple, it's not carrier locked.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    2. Re:I don't get it. by Nikker · · Score: 2

      So if I pay the difference back to cancel my contract what is the reasoning behind paying $500K and going to jail for 5 years?

      --
      A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
    3. Re:I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the point he is making is the Early Termination Fee.

      You buy a subsidized phone, you get hit with a $400 fee (sometimes prorated) to cancel your contract.

      You buy a full price phone, there is no ETF.

      Either way the carrier is getting their money.

    4. Re:I don't get it. by hawguy · · Score: 1

      Because you didn't pay 650$, you paid 99$. If you get the 650$ version from Apple, it's not carrier locked.

      You don't seem to understand the early termination fee.

      AT&T has the iPhone 5 for $199, and if you cancel the contract early, an early termination fee of $350.

      If you bought the phone, then broke the contract immediately by paying the ETF, you'd pay $550 for the phone.

      Their "unlocked" price for the phone is $650, so you'd get a $100 discount.

      But if AT&T is really losing money when selling the phone for "only" $550, then it seems like the answer to that problem is either to charge a higher purchase price, or raise the ETF. I don't see why they need the government to enforce their business model by putting people in jail for unlocking the phones.

      If congress feels it needs to take action on cell phones, then how about doing something about prorating ETF fees. AT&T deducts $10 for each month of service from the ETF. So why does it cost $350 - $230 = $120 to break the contract after 23 months but after 24 months there's no fee -- the fee should be prorated at ($ETF / term_length)

    5. Re:I don't get it. by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      It's not the job of government to protect broken business models. In this case AT&T should either charge more for the phone or their ETF, or (and I suspect that this is the real answer), the "unlocked" price for the phone is artificially inflated.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    6. Re:I don't get it. by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      Ok, here's one for you.

      Say I walk into a phone store. In this case, let's say T-mobile.

      I say I want a shiny new galaxy series smartphone, to replace my aging android froyo device. They eagerly wish to sign me onto a subsidized plan.

      I tell them that I am already happy with my monthly refilled no contract plan, and that I have the 1K in my pocket right now to just buy the phone. They whinge a little by telling me they won't replace it if lost, stolen, or damaged, but transact the purchase.

      I leave the store. I fucking ***OWN*** the phone.

      Let's say that a few years later, the previously prevented ATT+T-mobile merger bullshit happens again, but this time, let's say it is sprint, or similar evil, and not ATT. Rather than be sprint's little bitch, I decide that I want to unlock my handset, and jump ship to ATT.

      Sprint says NO, we own you now.

      How do you suggest I proceed?

    7. Re:I don't get it. by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      The problem is that the carriers are being allowed to commit fraud. If they really did sell you the phone for $99, then they have already lost their money, and they just hope to make more of it back in service. If the ETF is less than what they lost when they sold you the phone, that is too bad. They sold you the phone at $99. Of course, we all know that they did not sell the phone for $99. They gave you a loan for the purchase of the phone with a $99 down payment, and a two year contract to pay it off. The carrier misrepresented they deal, and wants the government to play an active role in their fraud.

    8. Re:I don't get it. by mug+funky · · Score: 1

      because why compete when you can legislate your shitty business model into the criminal system?

      seriously, if any company was losing money even on "phone trafficking" scams, they need to learn how to math.

    9. Re:I don't get it. by mister2au · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How do you suggest I proceed?

      How do you want to proceed? You bought a phone that is locked to Sprint ... It is still locked to Sprint

      Personally, I would be buying an unlocked phone and if Samsung does not make them available, then Samsung would lose my business to Apple.

    10. Re:I don't get it. by jxander · · Score: 1

      But it is the gvmnts job to ensure that monopolies and collusion do not hamper honest business practices.

      --
      This signature is false.
    11. Re:I don't get it. by frosty_tsm · · Score: 2

      So if I pay the difference back to cancel my contract what is the reasoning behind paying $500K and going to jail for 5 years?

      Same reasoning behind $250k per 99 cent song.

    12. Re:I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AT&T has the iPhone 5 for $199, and if you cancel the contract early, an early termination fee of $350.

      If you bought the phone, then broke the contract immediately by paying the ETF, you'd pay $550 for the phone.

      Their "unlocked" price for the phone is $650, so you'd get a $100 discount.

      It's even spookier when you assume that the phone's "rent to own" price is baked into the service plan, meaning that if you bought the unlocked phone for $650 and then bought the plan to go with it, you end up paying for the phone twice. What a mess.

    13. Re:I don't get it. by rsmith-mac · · Score: 2

      It doesn't deprive the carrier of their investment, which is why these days your carrier would unlock it for you anyhow. Unlocking is no longer a DMCA exception because carriers now regularly unlock phones that are paid off.

    14. Re:I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Once you pay the difference and cancel your contract, the phone is yours and I'm certain that the carrier would not only be obliged to, but be happy to give you the unlock code.

      The part *I* don't get, is why they needed a new law for this. If you unlock your phone and use it on a different carrier, and STOP paying your old carrier, you've basically stolen your phone by way of defaulting on the payments for it. I'm sure there were/are plenty of laws already covering the provider under those circumstances.

      The part I REALLY don't get is Americans inability to understand that THEY DON'T OWN their contract phones - at least until the end of the contract. They don't seem confused about their leased cars, you don't see Americans simply stop paying their lease and assume the car's theirs. Why the fuck do they do it with phones?

    15. Re:I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correct. You OWN the phone. So WHY THE FUCK would it be locked?

      If you were stupid enough to pay retail AND accept a locked phone, more fool you. The whole point of BUYING your phone is to get an UNLOCKED one.

      So, I'd suggest you proceed into the corner, facing the wall and wearing the pointy hat with the "D" on it for paying retail price for a locked phone. That, and I'm pretty sure the provider would be LEGALLY OBLIGED to GIVE you the unlock code for a phone you bought outright.

    16. Re:I don't get it. by hawguy · · Score: 1

      Once you pay the difference and cancel your contract, the phone is yours and I'm certain that the carrier would not only be obliged to, but be happy to give you the unlock code.

      The part *I* don't get, is why they needed a new law for this. If you unlock your phone and use it on a different carrier, and STOP paying your old carrier, you've basically stolen your phone by way of defaulting on the payments for it. I'm sure there were/are plenty of laws already covering the provider under those circumstances.

      yeah, it's called an early termination fee which is supposed to reimburse the carrier for the full cost of the phone.

      The part I REALLY don't get is Americans inability to understand that THEY DON'T OWN their contract phones - at least until the end of the contract. They don't seem confused about their leased cars, you don't see Americans simply stop paying their lease and assume the car's theirs. Why the fuck do they do it with phones?

      The part you don't get is that the carrier is not obliged to unlock the phone at the end of the term - nor even if you paid the full unsubsidized price and kept the same phone for 5 years.

      And even if you break your contract and pay the early termination fee, the carrier is still not obligated to unlock it for you.

      Maybe you'd be less condescending if you'd learn a bit about the issue before spouting off about how stupid people are.

    17. Re:I don't get it. by Stewie241 · · Score: 1

      I don't think that is misrepresented. I think most people have a clear understanding that the phone is cheaper under a contract because the carrier is making the money back on service.

      They don't just sell you the phone for $99. They sell you the phone for $99 under the conditions of the contract which include you either paying for the service every month or paying an early termination fee.

    18. Re:I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you might be wrong, but I'm neither American nor IN America so I obviously don't know. But I do know people (Americans) who have got unlock codes from their providers. So the question is whether they're legally obliged to or not.

      If they're NOT legally obliged to unlock paid-up phones not only am I surprised, but my contempt for American CONSUMERS is not lessened by this news - in fact I'd say they're even more stupid than I thought, for allowing that situation to develop in the first place.

    19. Re:I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      spouting off about how stupid people are.

      Yeah. About that.. intelligent people make contracts knowing they won't ever get the phone unlocked.

      - People are not stupid
      - and they know beforehand the phones won't get unlocked
      - so the new law won't bother them
      - because they don't want to unlock their phones, ever.

      So where is the problem?

      I see two possibilities here: either people are stupid and therefore they make contracts they don't want to keep OR people are intelligent and they know what they sign up to and therefore the law is not a problem for them.

      You can't have it both ways. Pick one.

    20. Re:I don't get it. by bfandreas · · Score: 1

      Which makes getting your phone from the carrier a bad idea to begin with.
      They use it as a ball&chain to bind you to them. And if you find a better deal/a carrier that's not crappy then you will have to pay for the phone anyway.

      Since I often find that carriers don't have the specific phone I want and I won't switch carriers just to get a new mobe I usually buy them myself. And snce they are jolly expensive, I only get a new phone every 3 years or when mine breaks. Since my Moto Defy still is happily chugging along I will stick to it for another year or so. Warts'n all.
      Just remember that there isn't such a thing as a free lunch. If somebody who is in the business of making money wants to give something to you, always ask what it's going to cost.
      Which of course doesn't explain new legislation. Unlocking a phone when you aren't supposed to surely is a breach of contract? We have legislation for that for ages. Including what kind of damages the other party can ask for. Unless of course the intention is to criminalize the act so thoroughly that they can stick you with a lot of thing. Breach of contract, fraud, wire tapping, unauthorized use of services, molesting an apple...that would amount to about 5 counts of 10 years prison(subsequently served) and a bajillion in damages. For a breach of contract. Unless you make a plea bargain for 5 years in prison and destitution for the rest of your life.

      Sounds reasonable.
      How is this law even legal?

      --
      20 minutes into the future
    21. Re:I don't get it. by tsa · · Score: 1

      No. You can't copy a phone like you can copy a digital file.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    22. Re:I don't get it. by greenbird · · Score: 2

      The part you don't get is that the carrier is not obliged to unlock the phone at the end of the term

      No one is asking the carrier to to do a damn thing. The phone is mine. I paid the full price for it (actually more than the full price if I completed the multi-year obligation). Why should I be a criminal because I modify something I friggin paid for and own. It's completely asinine. The congress idiots that passed such a law should be in jail.

      --
      Who is John Galt?
    23. Re:I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once you pay the difference and cancel your contract, the phone is yours and I'm certain that the carrier would not only be obliged to, but be happy to give you the unlock code.

      The part *I* don't get, is why they needed a new law for this.

      Because it's industry lobbyists who write laws, not congress critters. They are just the gatekeepers of the ratification mechanism.

    24. Re:I don't get it. by Pieroxy · · Score: 4, Funny

      No. You can't copy a phone like you can copy a digital file.

      Tell that to Samsung. Apple's lawyers disagree ;-)

    25. Re:I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So if I pay the difference back to cancel my contract what is the reasoning behind paying $500K and going to jail for 5 years?

      Same reasoning behind $250k per 99 cent song.

      Those are idiot RIAA lawyers demanding outrageous damages in court, which they are free to do if they can find a sympathetic judge and jury. This is an actual law prescribing a fine and it is draconian. I fail to see how this law could survive a trip to the supreme court even now that the supreme court is full of conservatives.

    26. Re:I don't get it. by Genda · · Score: 1

      Conservatives no.... corporate hit men yes... Justice Scalia (gawd those two words don't go together), would pass off on this law so fast, it would cause time to flow backwards...

    27. Re:I don't get it. by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Since you couldn't steal what you already own, you needed a new law.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    28. Re:I don't get it. by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      It's not? Gee, the recent development in laws could easily have fooled me.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    29. Re:I don't get it. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Not quite. They sell me the phone for 99 and a 2 year contract, WANTING me to use their service so I have to pay for the calls and text messages I send and receive. So this law essentially does not protect or enforce a contract, it protects what the company selling the phone WANTS its customers to do.

      Here's what happens in my country, and I'd be very surprised if it was any different in the US: Carrier A sells a phone for $little_money with a 2 year contract. People go and get that phone, along with the contract with the least possible monthly fee. These contracts usually run in such a way that they come with a low (or even free) monthly fee and rather expensive call rates. Then they unlock it and go to Carrier B which offers a pretty favorable calling plan but no phone. Presto, new phone and cheap calls.

      It's of course not what Carrier A wants. But since when has it been the government's job to protect a faulty business model?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    30. Re:I don't get it. by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      So we have this situation where let's say I get an iPhone 5, the iPhone 5 (16GB) runs at about $650, I sign up on a contract and pay approx $200 for a 3 year term. If I break the contract I have to pay around $400 to cancel my contract. So if I unlock my phone and goto another carrier how does that deprive the carrier of their 'investment' ?

      Well, it doesn't. So go to the carrier, tell them to unlock your phone. If they refuse you tell them they have to because you can't do it yourself legally. If they still refuse, take them to court.

    31. Re:I don't get it. by wvmarle · · Score: 2

      In Hong Kong it's done rather differently - and I think better for the customer, and the carrier alike.

      Here there are also plenty of subsidised phone plans.

      What the carrier does: they offer phone+plan, then you have to pay for the phone full fee in advance, and get a monthly discount on your bill for the duration of your contract. Both those plans and phones are sold separately as well, and you have many mix-and-match options.

      This is good for the customer: they get their phone at a discount, and can switch carriers any time they want. But when stopping a contract you have to pay an early termination fee (typically around USD 40-50), and you lose all future discounts. So if you stop halfway, you lose have the subsidy.

      This is good for the carrier: they don't have to finance the phones, as they get the money for it upfront, and no extra losses on that phone were a customer to cancel the contract before it's finished.

      Also that there is real competition here with at least five networks and more providers (including some without their own network), and by law when you want to switch providers you can take your number and it's ported over in a matter of days. The procedure is also very simple for the customer, as the new network will arrange everything for them. It makes for a very vibrant market, that's on top of the latest wireless technologies.

    32. Re:I don't get it. by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      I think the first time someone actually gets sued for this crime, and assuming they have a good lawyer, they will take it all the way up to the final court to have it thrown out being unconstitutional for "unusual and cruel punishment" or however you guys call it.

    33. Re:I don't get it. by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The irony of you considering an Apple device because you dislike lock-in is not lost on me.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    34. Re:I don't get it. by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      The problem is that the carriers are being allowed to commit fraud.

      It is not fraud, and not misrepresented. You're mistaken in thinking they sell you a phone, because they don't. They sell you phone+contract as a combination. You can not buy that phone for that same price when bought separately. You may not be able to get that exact contract even when bought separately.

      Part of the contract is an early termination fee, and maybe other charges. All listed out clearly in the document you sign when you buy phone+contract.

    35. Re:I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But since when has it been the government's job to protect a faulty business model?

      Since when hasn't it been? Patents, copyrights, you name it! Even though they shouldn't, the government has been protecting faulty business models for quite some time.

    36. Re:I don't get it. by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      The phone will be locked by default, because the default state of phones sold in the store, is the locked condition. Assume for a moment that you are not buying the phone outright because you want to re-sell it later, but because you simply don't want a contract, and want a lower monthly bill that reflects this fact.

      Because the option to use a different carrier is *NOT* your primary motivator for buying the phone outright, it is not high on your list of priorities when buying the phone. Your reason for buying the phone from the store is pure convenience; you can windowshop for the phone from the brick and mortar store, and get the phone that same day. Also, some phones are carrier exclusive, and only come branded/locked inside the US.

      Your argument basically boils down to "If you were stupid enough not to demand that the clerk unlock it for you immediately after purchase, you are are simply an idiot. I expect you to be informed as a customer, and to capitulate to bullshit laws that walk all over First Sale, and just accept the fact that you have no rights nor recourse as a consumer. Nevermind that the clerk may simply refuse to unlock it for you. In which case, you shouldnt buy it from a brick and mortar store, even though it is highly possible that because you have no implicit rights in terms of who controls your handset, even when you buy it outright, that you have no guarantees of being able to even legally purchase an unlocked phone of the type you want, and in fact, will likely run into a situation down the road where it is not desirable nor profitable for carriers to permit the sale of such items to begin with."

      In short, your answer is bullshit, and I reject it heartily.

    37. Re:I don't get it. by mister2au · · Score: 1

      huh?

      I was suggesting what I'd do in the OP's situation ie worried about network lock-in ...

      If network and eco-system lock-in were both a concern, then you move onto a Google Nexus or potentially even a Nokia depending on your world view.

      Really, a phone is just a phone - just find the one that best suits and move on - it shouldn't define who you are nor cause the amount of distress it seems to cause some people

    38. Re:I don't get it. by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      This runs afoul of several key elements.

      Firstly, it requires that the purchaser be psychic, or paranoid. The user purchased the handset with the intention that it should perform a specific function. (Work with the plan the user currently has.) It does this for a time. The user then has the ToS pulled out from under them, and gets forced into a different service offering, due to the restructuring. The device is no longer fit for the purchased function, and the user has no desire to use it with the offered service. What rational basis does the carrier have to prosecute the legal owner of the phone, for wishing to do something to the phone that the user legally owns, and which the carrier has no real legal rights to, given that the user expressly does NOT wish to use their service?

    39. Re:I don't get it. by Zorpheus · · Score: 1

      So the phone is not only financed by the monthly fee, but also by inflated prices for calls.
      Simlocking would not make much sense if it was only for the monthly fees, unless it is easy to default on them. But it is logical if it is done to force you to make calls at an increased rate. Looks like people are not really aware of that.

    40. Re:I don't get it. by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      My motivator for purchasing a phone is not about image, but about utility. Specifically, I want a phone that is sufficiently popular to have networked effects of a greater community; For example, support for CyanogenMod, and other community produced enhancements.

      Thus, the reason for purchasing the handset is not "because it looks cool, and I'm a wannabe", but because "I can get waaaaaaaaaaaay more bang for my buck than the handset maker realizes"

      typically, as a function of availability, the support for devices follows the trend of "hipness", but that does not equate with my interest. Correlation is not causation. It is merely a consequence of what gets worked on by the community, because the hipper/trendier devices sell more, and have a larger userbase. it is part of a feedback cycle.

      The reasons for purchasing the device are quite simple:

      1) I want to be able to use the device for more than the manufacturer intends.

      2) I want the device now/at all. (some are carrier exclusives in the US, thanks to BS import restrictions and laws, and I dont feel like waiting 7 to 10 business days and paying additional shipping and insurance on an international package for other types of phone, when I can get it today.)

      3) I want to keep a lower service bill by owning the phone.

      The intention is that I will retain my current plan, and am not contemplating leaving the carrier I am currently using, because I am currently satisfied with the service I am now receiving, and have no indications that the service will be terminated for reasons beyond my control, such as a corporate restructure. (EG, the carrier is a healthy company, that reports profits, and has a vibrant user base with coverage in my use area.)

      The hypothetical situation did not in any way imply that I was dissatisfied with the CURRENT service, nor that I was paranoid that the service would be changed. In fact, the exact opposite is implied.

      I gave the hypothetical situation from the standpoint of a partially informed, and somewhat savvy buyer. One who doesnt comprehend about SIM locking, and isnt concerned by it, since they dont intend to switch, nor to sell the phone. They own their phone for purely financial reasons.

      Down the line, their carrier gets bought out-- (Say, NEXTEL customer in the past, bought by SPRINT-- for a historical context.) As a consequence, they get the nastygram in the mail saying that their service has been automatically upgraded, please agree to the new ToS, and expect anal violations in the form of overage charges, roaming charges, and charges for services that used to be free, and no, it is non-negotiable.

      This customer calls the company, informs them that they are *NOT* interested in their new offerings, does NOT want to be automatically upgraded, and wishes to cancel service, since they are not a subsidized subscriber, and should not have to pay any ETFs, or other fees-- and wants an unlock code for their handset.

      The carrier flatly says no, because it is against their corporate policy.

      Given that the user:

      1) does not wish to use the service of the carrier branded on their phone.

      2) does indeed OWN the phone, OUTRIGHT, without any entanglements.

      under what legal justification does that carrier have the right to sue said owner for seeking to unlock his or her handset his or herself?

      That was the actual question.

    41. Re:I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So if I pay the difference back to cancel my contract what is the reasoning behind paying $500K and going to jail for 5 years?

      You asked three questions, not one.

      1. Is paying the difference back the same as fulfilling the contract? Answer: Probably not, but maybe.
      2. Is the penalty for breaking the contract, or for unlocking a phone which you have no legal right to unlock? Answer: It's for unlocking the phone which you have no legal right to unlock, not for breaking the contract.
      3. Is it a fair penalty? Answer: That's opinion. In mine, no it's not fair.

      Solution: Don't buy phones under contract, then it's a moot point because you already have the right to unlock it.
      Better Solution: Get rid of the DMCA because it's a pile of pigshit. But still buy your own phone instead of going on a contract subsidy.

      I will toss in a side note here- most carriers have no problem authorizing you to unlock your phone, especially if you're going to be traveling overseas. I've never seen a carrier refuse to unlock a phone once you've either fulfilled or bought-out your contract.

    42. Re:I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one is asking the carrier to to do a damn thing. The phone is mine. I paid the full price for it (actually more than the full price if I completed the multi-year obligation). Why should I be a criminal because I modify something I friggin paid for and own. It's completely asinine.

      Go read your contract. Where does it say that you own it? Where does it say that completing, or buying out the contract, gives you ownership of the phone? If it says you do, then you own it and you don't need anybody to authorize you to unlock it. If it doesn't, then you don't own it.

      No, I'm not attempting to justify the penallty for breaking the law, but you really should pay attention to what you're signing up for.

    43. Re:I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You don't seem to understand the early termination fee.

      No, you're the one who doesn't understand it. The logic for WHY they charge the fee, or how much they charge, is not relevant to this discussion. What is relevant is that you don't have the legal right to unlock it because you signed up for that deal. Go buy one at full price if you don't like it.

      Is it shady? Yes. It is sleazy? Yes. Are the damages fair? No. Would it be any less bullshit if the buyout was properly prorated? NO. Quit buying subsidized phones, and you don't have to worry about it. Same reason why I buy my cars instead of renting or leasing them. Same reason why I refuse to buy a house which is subject to a homeowners' association.

    44. Re:I don't get it. by hawkinspeter · · Score: 2

      I vote for the "most people are stupid" option. It wouldn't even occur to most people that their phone isn't their phone and that they can't switch providers.

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    45. Re:I don't get it. by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1

      It sounds like misrepresentation to me when the majority of people believe that they are buying a phone. The fact that you need lawyer skills and have to carefully read the contract indicates that this is not a straight-forward deal and that the carrier is relying on people not understanding what they are signing up for.

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    46. Re:I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because you didn't pay 650$, you paid 99$. If you get the 650$ version from Apple, it's not carrier locked.

      Surely, carriers should make you sign a contract, and surely they should be allowed to sue you if you violate the contract.

      I don't get why it has to be a crime, this is obviously as civil issue.

    47. Re:I don't get it. by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Reading the complete contract and help from a lawyer is not needed to know what you're buying.

      It is quite clear, and obvious to everyone with half a brain, that such a discounted price is only valid if you buy a mobile service contract with it. The carrier is also not hiding that - they usually will advertise how much discount they are giving on the full price, and they will quite clearly print "price with 2-year contract worth $xxx" or something in those lines.

    48. Re:I don't get it. by Cwix · · Score: 1

      Exactly! I'm glad someone brought this up.

      --
      You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
    49. Re:I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AT&T will unlock out of contract iPhones, stupid. CDMA iPhones are a different story due to the way the tech works

      This is a geek Internet hysteria that no one will care about

    50. Re:I don't get it. by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1

      Maybe you're surrounded by more observant people than I am. Most of the people I know would not really understand that they are buying their phone with their monthly contract fees. Instead they're more likely to say "look, I got a free phone with my contract!".

      Maybe I'm underestimating people.

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    51. Re:I don't get it. by gmuslera · · Score: 1

      If you pay the ETF or your contract ends, the carrier is forced to unlock your phone, at no charge, no fuss, and taking for it very short time? You have no more contract, but you still can't unlock it yourself.

    52. Re:I don't get it. by Stewie241 · · Score: 1

      Interesting. My experience has been (here in Canada) that in order to qualify for the hardware discounts you have to commit to a plan that costs around $30 a month for what they used to call a feature phone (maybe they still do, but they typically run Android these days), or $50 or $60 a month for a smart phone of some description (think newer Android devices, the iPhone, Blackberrys, etc).

    53. Re:I don't get it. by Stewie241 · · Score: 1

      Well, in my case, here is what the decision is based upon, for when I travel to the US, which is every couple of months:

      Voice Calls: $1.45 per minute (+ any long distance)
      Text Messages: $.75 per sent text (free to receive though)
      Data: $.01/KB

      My carrier also has a plan that costs $15 a month which gives you the privilege of having the Voice call roaming rate reduced to $.35 a minute. For $10 a month you can have the data reduced to $1/MB. I also see that they have a text message travel pass that gets you unlimited text messages for $10/day

      My solution was to get my phone unlocked and get a pay as you go plan from t-mobile. It costs me $2 for each day I use the phone in the US. I don't use the phone a lot, but I figure if I send three text messages in a day to coordinate dinner plans or something then I have come out saving money. I also can look things up on my phone, like directions to somewhere without having to pay a crazy amount for data, and if I want to make a call I can just do it. It doesn't allow me to call back home to Canada, but I have other means to do that so I don't find that to be a big deal.

    54. Re:I don't get it. by Stewie241 · · Score: 1

      Sure, but even in that statement they aren't saying they bought a phone. They are saying they bought a contract and got a phone for free. I would be really interested to see evidence to the contrary but I'm pretty sure that people understand that the reason they are being offered the phone for free it because the carrier is making money off of the contract.

      http://www.rogers.com/web/content/flextab?cm_mmc=Redirects-_-Consumer_Wireless_Eng-_-Devices-_-Flextab - that is a page from one of the Canadian carriers which I think spells things out pretty clearly.

    55. Re:I don't get it. by tofarr · · Score: 1

      No - they will settle because of not being able to afford to do that.

    56. Re:I don't get it. by Lithdren · · Score: 1

      Your argument is flawed, because you still dont seem to understand what is going on.

      Customer A wants Cell Phone X, Company B offers the phone at say 100 dollars and a 2 year contract. You can purchase this phone for 599 elsewhere if you so choose, and use it more or less anywhere. But, if you go with company B you get the Phone X for only 100 dollars. ON CONDITION you then have a 2 year service contract, usually with several options depending on things like data rates and call minutes.

      Of course the company 'wants' you to use their offer, but by agreeing with it its no longer a want, its now a contract. Part of that contract is you get to use the phone now, for 100 dollars. They make up the difference between the 100 and 599 (though I suspect they can get it for less) with the service contract, over those two years.

      Whats happening here is they're saying that if you do something with that cell phone they dont like, they can now sue you for half a million dollars and throw you in prision. Frankly, I wont be buying cellphones anymore from anyone long as this holds true, i'll go buy my own phone. No service contract could possibly make the threat of indentured servitude and prision time worth the risk.

    57. Re:I don't get it. by greenbird · · Score: 1

      No, I'm not attempting to justify the penallty for breaking the law, but you really should pay attention to what you're signing up for.

      You don't even understand the law. The law in question says you go to jail for 5 years for unlocking a phone you own. And you do purchase the phone. That's the phrase used. The contract is about the service not the phone.

      --
      Who is John Galt?
    58. Re:I don't get it. by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      The specifically state that they are selling you a phone. Saying "You knew that we were lying when we made this transaction." is not a valid defense. There is a mechanism for the carriers to offset costs when someone breaks their contract. That is, as you said, the ETF. It amazes me how many people will defend a company with the logic of, "You knew they were lying when they sold you the product."

    59. Re:I don't get it. by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Maybe in the US it is different, but around here I always see phones advertised with low prices, and then clearly indicated "in combination with 24-month contract worth $xxx a month". At that price you can not buy JUST the phone. That should be pretty clear to anyone buying that phone. They sell it together with the contract, as is actually stated in the advertisement.

      When going to the phone company to buy the phone, I've been offered a list of prices for the exact same phone, all with various contract options, including no contract. So if you want to buy the phone, sure you can buy just the phone, at full price. But if you buy a contract with it, you get steep discounts. So that's why I said: you're not buying a phone, you're buying a package phone+contract.

    60. Re:I don't get it. by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      When you buy the phone with the contract, you have bought the phone. You also have a contract. The contract states that if you terminate the contract early, you have to pay an ETF. You got the phone at a discount because you bought it with a contract. That is a done deal. What is happening now is that customers are being told "Well, you didn't REEELLLLYYYY buy the phone. You should have known that we were lying when we said that you did."

  3. What about.. by mark-t · · Score: 2

    ... taking the cell phone to Canada and unlocking it there?

    Notwithstanding that this could violate a cell phone provider's terms of service agreement, and one could still be accountable to their cell provider for violating that.

    However, in Canada, the unlocking of cell phones is *expressly* legal.

    And, if people who are, for instance, residents of California, are allowed to travel to Nevada and gamble and then return without consequence, I see no reason why a person from the USA could not also go into Canada and unlock their phone there without legal repercussions.

    I smell a potentially profitable business opportunity for people who live in border towns.

    1. Re:What about.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There may be something against it considering it is another country. Seems like BUYING unlocked phones is still legal, so I think we'll see plenty of money leaving the US and heading to Canada. Ironic considering our economy is crap, still.

    2. Re:What about.. by Miseph · · Score: 1

      I do not disagree with the premise that unlocking a phone should be legal: indeed, I feel that creating criminal penalties for doing so is a travesty, and might border on treasonous for the legislators involved.

      But...

      I was not aware that Canada had joined the Union and become a state. That would be a legally relevant point of interest.

      --
      Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
    3. Re:What about.. by Zemran · · Score: 2

      Logically, a person who works and travels in both countries would need his phone unlocked if he wants to use a Canadian provider while in Canada or in fact any area not covered by his provider. I can quite understand providers wanting to lock phones but to break such an agreement is not and should not be criminal. Intent should be a part of the equation in that if I have a good reason to need my phone unlocked (examples already given) and I want my contract to continue and intend to continue to use the original supplier, then no harm is being done and in a civil case and they would be stupid to take me to court but as they have made this criminal, no harm is required. This is where America has lost sight of justice and is now just protecting the money men at the expense of the people.

      --
      I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
    4. Re:What about.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However, in Canada, the unlocking of cell phones is *expressly* legal.

      Unlocking the cell phone is totally legal here, too. I believe DMCA makes it illegal to make or distribute tools or to provide this as a service. As long as YOU can unlock your phone, you're good

      Also, not all things that are legal in a different country are automatically ok to do. Sex tourism is illegal in US and can get you in trouble even if you go to a country where it is expressly legal.

    5. Re:What about.. by Stewie241 · · Score: 1

      Well, there actually *could* be potential harm if you consider loss of revenue to be harm. Why would anybody want to use a Canadian provider while in Canada? Presumably the same reason that I unlocked my phone to use a US provider when I travel to the US (from Canada). I don't want to pay the exorbitant roaming fees. The cell companies make good money off of people travelling and using their phones while roaming. Also, even though somebody might pay for a base plan the provider can still at times earn extra money if the subscriber goes over their minutes or data allotment or text allotment etc.

    6. Re:What about.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When the alternative is not buying the product in the first place, what revenue is lost by having people actually buy from you (but less than you wish?)

    7. Re:What about.. by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      "I smell a potentially profitable business opportunity for people who live in border towns."

      If you did so for your own personal phone then the question is pretty good, and I don't know the answer, but the idea that there is a business in it ignores the presence of international commerce regulations.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    8. Re:What about.. by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Replace "not buying the product" with "not buying any product", and you see the the problem with that suggestion.

      Sure, there's already unlocked phones you can buy now... but with the removal of cell phone unlocking from the exceptions to the DMCA, the lawmakers have now implicitly added some incentive for cell phone providers to produce more locked cell phones, since by doing so, they could potentially reap the benefits of the additional protections the law offers for them (with the exception in place, there is no real benefit, and therefore no incentive). With this added incentive, it is inevitable that the available of alternative unlocked phones is going to diminish significantly within the next few months, and the consumer's freedom to choose such alternatives will be proportionally limited.

    9. Re:What about.. by mark-t · · Score: 1

      In the USA, apparently, not anymore... unlocking of cell phones was made as an exception to the DMCA, and this exception was evidently revoked earlier this week.

    10. Re:What about.. by mark-t · · Score: 1

      At what point did I suggest that Canada was part of the USA? My point is that it's legal to travel between them... and that it's legal in Canada to unlock a cell phone. Since it's not illegal in the USA to possess an unlocked cell phone, so it must be okay to unlock a locked cell phone when outside of the USA unless the DMCA contains a provision that any locks broken outside of the USA on products purchased within in it, and which would be a violation of the DMCA if done in the USA, must be restored upon returning (which I'd wager doesn't exist).

    11. Re:What about.. by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      Possibility of crime is not crime. If it were, this wouldn't be a joke but part of Law101 books.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    12. Re:What about.. by Stewie241 · · Score: 1

      But this isn't about crime. This is about a cell phone carrier selling a phone with certain contract conditions and one of those conditions is based on the cell carrier wanting the phone to be used only on their network.

      I'm not arguing for or against the law with this argument - I'm merely providing a counter argument for why cell phone carriers may want to keep their customers' phones locked. If it were the case that there was no extra revenue potential for them by keeping the phone locked, then it seems harder to understand the *why* of the carriers wanting this law. If allowing people to use their phones under other deals that they can make with other carriers can reduce their potential revenue, it makes more sense, IMO.

    13. Re:What about.. by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      But this isn't about crime

      but to break such an agreement is not and should not be criminal

      The post you responded to was about crime.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
  4. Write a letter by hawguy · · Score: 4, Informative

    While the "We the People" petition is a nice symbolic measure, it's not likely to result in any real action even if it reaches the signature limit.

    It'd be far better if everyone wrote letters to their congressional representatives. There are lots of guides on the internet for doing so, here's one:

    http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/uscongress/a/letterscongress.htm

    1. Re:Write a letter by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      That, and the fact that anyone can sign this petition, including everyone on the planet, not just Americans. This is ridiculous.

    2. Re:Write a letter by tburkhol · · Score: 1

      It'd be far better if everyone wrote letters to their congressional representatives.

      The Librarian of Congress is part of the Executive Branch and a Presidential appointee. That office is empowered by Congress to identify exemptions from the DMCA, independently of further action by Congress. The White House is the approptiate body to lobby in this case, because the President can instruct the Librarian to reconsider/revise his policy and restore the DMCA exemption for unlocking a phone after any service contract expires.

      It's unfortunate that we seem to have so much trouble distinguishing laws enacted by congress and policies implemented by various executive branch bodies.

    3. Re:Write a letter by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      While the "We the People" petition is a nice symbolic measure, it's not likely to result in any real action even if it reaches the signature limit.

      It'd be far better if everyone wrote letters to their congressional representatives. There are lots of guides on the internet for doing so, here's one:

      http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/uscongress/a/letterscongress.htm

      Oh, the irony. Suggesting one pointless gesture in place of another, and waisting trees in the process. Fuck you man, that's just wrong.

    4. Re:Write a letter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That, and the fact that anyone can sign this petition, including everyone on the planet, not just Americans. This is ridiculous.

      You do have to register with an email address, name and US zip code. There's nothing preventing foreigners from falsifying those things, but on this issue, why would they bother? What Canadian (let alone Chinese) cares whether the US imprisons phone-unlockers for 5 years?

      Elected officials want to make their constituents happy, and polls are basically the only way they have of knowing how. Gallup can't possibly know all the issues that might be important, so these petitions are a way of at least getting issues on the political radar. The 100k threshold is basically a filter to keep them from having to respond to every school project or class prank. Really, 100k out of 300M is not a tough threshold, unless you have a lot of people running around saying "Don't sign anything: they're a scam, a disingenuous method for collecting email addresses, never going to amount to anything." You get the government you build. If you start by refusing to tell your government what you want it to do, then you are guaranteed a government that will not do what you want.

    5. Re:Write a letter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While the "We the People" petition is a nice symbolic measure, it's not likely to result in any real action even if it reaches the signature limit.

      That's not the purpose. The purpose of the petition site is to be a honeypot, and collect the names of the people who care passionately about different subjects. That way the right people can be rounded up to be made an example of, when the time comes.

    6. Re:Write a letter by tippe · · Score: 1

      You don't actually have to send them a paper letter, you know; you can also send them email (although receiving 100000 letters would certainly make a bigger impression than receiving an equal number of emails...). If enough of you do it, your congressmen might even fight for you for what you want.

      On a couple of different occasions, I've written letters (emails, that is) to my MPs, ministers and my PM protesting the various new DMCA-like copyright reform laws that they were trying to introduce into Canada. Others protesting the same thing had already set up websites that would start me off with a form letter which I could choose to modify if I wanted. After entering some general info into the drop-downs, it would send the letter off the relevant parties and 10 minutes later I was back on /. reading articles. On both occasions when I did this, I even got a response from my MP (personalized even) and the minister. YMMV, but democracy will only work if you actually participate.

  5. Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ... another reason to be so very glad that I am not American. It seems that unlocking a phone is more serious that assault.

    1. Re:Wow... by Smauler · · Score: 1

      I know I'm replying to an anonymous coward with anti-American tendencies... but he has a point. Laws like this do not exist anywhere else in the developed world, afaik. There's quite a lot of consumer protection about what you can do with your stuff in the EU, for example, and this kind of thing would be laughed out of any legislature.

    2. Re:Wow... by opus_magnum · · Score: 1

      You still risk being sued by the relevant copyright owner for running an unlicensed version of the OS.

    3. Re:Wow... by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 3

      It's not really the consumer protection side (or lack thereof) that I find scary, it's vague laws that state "If you do something bad, you will receive an appropriate punishment ranging from a slap on the wrist to 5 years in jail". If you make the unlocking of phones illegal (which I don't agree with btw.), there should be a clear distinction between one guy unlocking his own phone after his agreed contract expires, and a guy running a shop unlocking hundreds of phones a week for a fee. In the first case a small fine would be appropriate; the second case would warrant much stiffer fines or even criminal charges (depending on your laws). Ideally the law itself makes that distinction to some degree; the problem is that apparently you could get the $500k fine / jail time even for unlocking a single phone, if the prosecutor decides to make an example out of you. We've all seen how that works recently...

      Here (in Europe) we do have similar laws which have not been laughed out of the legislature. But those laws make the distinction between small time infractions and large scale commercial wrongdoings. And a prosecutor asking for the maximum sentence for a minor breach of the law would be laughed out of court. Being made an example of here doesn't involve ludicrous jail terms; if it happens at all, it means that when the judge has a choice between imposing community service or an equivalent jail term, he'll send you to jail.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    4. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But a civil copyright case is a completely different ball game to the criminal offence that the US has now decided that phone unlocking should be. And why would it be an "unlicensed version" of the OS anyway?

    5. Re:Wow... by Smauler · · Score: 1

      a guy running a shop unlocking hundreds of phones a week for a fee.

      We have them here in the UK. It's perfectly legal.

      Here (in Europe) we do have similar laws which have not been laughed out of the legislature.

      Which laws do we have which are similar in Europe? I'd be interested to know - generally European law has come down firmly on the side of the consumer in terms of "things" bought. With digital media, it's a little less clear cut, because there hasn't been a big case yet, but the law suggests that if you've bought it, it's yours to trade, keep, or do whatever with. There have been little cases recently saying just this in terms of digital media.

    6. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know I'm replying to an anonymous coward with anti-American tendencies... but he has a point. Laws like this do not exist anywhere else in the developed world, afaik. There's quite a lot of consumer protection about what you can do with your stuff in the EU, for example, and this kind of thing would be laughed out of any legislature.

      Laughed out of any legislature in the EU? Would that be by the authority of a family member of a royal bloodline who has magically been put in charge of an entire country, elected by birth?

      (Not that the voting process in the US has become any less pointless, but my sarcasm remains)

    7. Re:Wow... by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1

      Why would you need to run an unlicensed version of the OS to unlock a phone?

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    8. Re:Wow... by Smauler · · Score: 1

      Anyone who thinks that any royal has political power in Europe doesn't know it. The king/queen role is purely ceremonial now, in all European democracies.

    9. Re:Wow... by opus_magnum · · Score: 1

      Because you often have to replace the firmware with one copied from an unlocked phone and it can be reasonably argued that you don't have a licence for that.

  6. Summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "We have what we consider to be good competition so we are taking away one of the things that fosters that competition because these guys can't figure out how to run their businesses without our help."

  7. In no other industry is this acceptable. by SampleFish · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Let's first recognize that the "cell phone" is in fact a radio. Now imagine if the radio in your car was locked to one station and you had to buy a new radio in order to listen to a different radio station. Imagine if you had to buy a new TV when switching cable providers. It's absurd. I've always thought that people should be able to buy hardware of their choosing and use it wherever it is compatible. These smartphones are little computers. I should be able to buy any hardware platform and load any OS on it. Then I should be able to go to any cellular ISP and install their radio/modem/SIM. (Note there are only 2 types of radio and 4 companies to chose from). It would be more expensive but there is no reason to make preposterous legislation around it.

    1. Re:In no other industry is this acceptable. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your analogy is off a bit - the TV isn't locked to your cable/sat provider, the box is. Last time I checked, cable providers won't let you bring a box from a competitor.

    2. Re:In no other industry is this acceptable. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cable providers are in fact required by law to let you bring your own box if you so desire. Of course, should you try to actually do so, you'll find out quickly why so many people feel that laws are only meant for the "little folk."

    3. Re:In no other industry is this acceptable. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now imagine if the radio in your car was locked to one station and you had to buy a new radio in order to listen to a different radio station.

      See: OnStar
      See: Playstation 3
      See: Dish Network
      See: "Smart TV"
      See: iPad

      All are massively popular. Consumers are perfectly willing to accept hardware which is married to the provider's network and software. This is unlikely to change in the near future, laws or no laws. I expect it to become worse.

    4. Re:In no other industry is this acceptable. by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      When you make it attractive enough that nobody wants to move, then moving isn't a problem. The issue is that cell phones have always had a massive churn rate, and the carriers are anti-user to block that. Sometimes "lock-in" is practical. You can't play X-Box games on a PS3. That's reasonable and sensible (And technically required). DLC for Fallout on the PS3 may not be downloaded on any other platform. That's an artificial block, but still arguably reasonable. Rendering your phone unusable for anything other than 911 should you switch carriers. They had to go out of their way to implement that, which leans towards the unreasonable.

  8. While it's still legal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A phone can be unlocked very easily with a firearm.

  9. These seem like crap excuses by TubeSteak · · Score: 2

    CTIA [Cellular Telecommunications Industry Association] explained that the practice of locking cell phones is an essential part of the wireless industry's predominant business model, which involves subsidizing the cost of wireless handsets in exchange for a commitment from the customer that the phone will be used on that carrier's service so that the subsidy can eventually be recouped by the carrier. CTIA alleged that the industry has been plagued by âoelarge scale phone trafficking operationsâ that buy large quantities of pre-paid phones, unlock them, and resell them in foreign markets where carriers do not subsidize handsets.

    1. The industry business model is selling subsidized phones in exchange for a multi-year contract.
    Most carriers have early termination fees that are prorated the longer you stick to your contract,
    which directly reflects the cost of the subsidized phone they sold you.
    The carrier could care less what happens to that phone, as long as I hold to my contract or pay the ETF.

    2. If there is a big problem with pre-paid phones, then craft the unlocking exemption to exclude prepaid phones.

    The CTIA must have gotten their guidance from the copyright industry, where singular counts of infringement are treated the same as large scale criminal enterprises.

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
    1. Re:These seem like crap excuses by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      CTIA [Cellular Telecommunications Industry Association] explained that the practice of locking cell phones is an essential part of the wireless industry's predominant business model, which involves subsidizing the cost of wireless handsets in exchange for a commitment from the customer that the phone will be used on that carrier's service so that the subsidy can eventually be recouped by the carrier. CTIA alleged that the industry has been plagued by âoelarge scale phone trafficking operationsâ that buy large quantities of pre-paid phones, unlock them, and resell them in foreign markets where carriers do not subsidize handsets.

      Emphasis mine. Their predominant business model doesn't seem to be working as more and more countries pass ahead of America as far as cellular telcos are concerned - with both better service and lower fares. And strangely, all those countries ahead have unlocking explicitly legal.

      Maybe just forbidding everyone to lock phones would be a good idea? Just a hint of course...

    2. Re:These seem like crap excuses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In addition, the solution is simply to seek the carrier's permission to unlock it. If you have permission, there is no issue with the law. The problem is all the people that want to get a $79.99 iPhone 5 and then get it unlocked right away and then selling it for a profit and doing it all over again. Yet people are up in arms as if this means they can /never/ unlock their phone, which simply isn't true. It's not even a matter of symantics, it's a matter of people misreading what it actually says and getting up in arms about it.

    3. Re:These seem like crap excuses by caseih · · Score: 1

      But the odd thing is that prepaid phones aren't subsidized. And there isn't any contract. So a sale is a sale, doesn't matter what the buyer does with the phones. If the cell companies are likely taking a small loss with these phones at the point of sale, but that should be a bad business decision consequence, not a matter to put customers in jail over.

      Wow. I think I'm going to remember this new nonsensical phrase that the cell companies have come up with: pre-paid phone trafficking. Hilarious.

  10. Get over the petitions already by bradley13 · · Score: 3

    The petitions are worthless. Opium for the masses. No petition has ever had any useful effect.

    No petition will ever have a useful effect, unless you count the placebo effect as useful: "I did something for my cause, now I can go back to sleep".

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
    1. Re:Get over the petitions already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Petitions have worked - many politicians do take action if they think enough of the voters care.

      Your post is even more worthless than most petitions.

    2. Re:Get over the petitions already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      apathy, the cornerstone of democracy

      Carry on good citizen

    3. Re:Get over the petitions already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Change nothing, nothing changes.

      Later on i can start my own revolution with justification, of, 'I asked nicely before', you can't.

    4. Re:Get over the petitions already by nbahi15 · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing you haven't written many letters or made many phone calls to your representatives. Petitions are quite valuable, especially ones that receive responses from the administration. There are very few avenues for grassroots activism that can elicit a response from the president of the US and this administration has created that avenue.

    5. Re:Get over the petitions already by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1

      To be honest, most revolutions don't require justifications, just lots of willing people.

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    6. Re:Get over the petitions already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It can indicate a level of support for something which can lead to others being more willing to be more active or even just vocal. No one likes to fail after all and if politicians get to take the pulse of an issue as it were why not activists?

    7. Re:Get over the petitions already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So how did a couple of states get legal weed?

  11. The People have already spoken by qeveren · · Score: 1

    The ones that actually matter, anyway. Still, good luck with your petition guys.

    --
    Don't just stand there, get that other dog!
  12. Fiasco? by SeaFox · · Score: 1

    My plan was to just ignore the law and unlock my phone anyway and -- oh wait, I buy my phones used on eBay to start with and don't even get involved in the whole carrier-subsidy treadmill.

  13. Don't buy subsidized phones by somenickname · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's pretty simple what you can do about it: Don't buy subsidized phones. Not only do you end up paying more for a subsidized phone, you lose your rights to do whatever you want with it.

    I really don't understand why people are so up in arms about this. I'm a card carrying member of the EFF and ACLU and, apart from the fact that this is a criminal offense instead of a civil issue, I'm not really that concerned because the "loophole" is so simple: Buy your fucking phone instead of renting it.

    1. Re:Don't buy subsidized phones by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Except this ignores the second-hand phone market. Someone could buy a subsidized iPhone 5 today and use it for two years, then sell it. If the original owner doesn't remember to request an unlock prior to the sale, the buyer is now stuck.

      I bought a second hand 3GS and decided to pay for a SIM unlock rather than having to wait for ultrasn0w to update every time iOS increments. It's too bad future purchasers of used phones won't have that option open to them. And for what it's worth, AT&T doesn't seem willing to unlock an old phone for a non-customer, so I went through a third-party unlocker.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:Don't buy subsidized phones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stuck? Not really If he can technically make it work without much hustle - win/win situation.

    3. Re:Don't buy subsidized phones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent up.

      I agree that this law is bullshit. Want to know how I reacted? I just bought a Nexus 4 from Google, now that they are shipping again. 100% mine.

      I'm never going to buy a phone from AT&T again. Why? Because Fuck AT&T. Fuck AT&T. If they were in the business of providing a good service, I would continue giving them as much of my business as I can. But they are not in the business of providing good cellular/mobile service. They are in the business of improving the value of their shares, in order to deliver value to their shareholders, to the detriment of their customers.

      It wouldn't be that bad if I had any real choice between wireless carriers. But being an American living in America, I don't.

      I can't wait for the day when WiFi (or whatever its equivalent will be) is so pervasive in every metropolitan area thanks to things like Google fiber, that dinosaurs like AT&T and Verizon just die. Now if only something could be done about the travesty of a political system that enables such companies to lobby the government for asinine laws such as the one being discussed...

    4. Re:Don't buy subsidized phones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What if I'm about to travel internationally?

      I mean - if the phone is subsidized, I signed a contract right? That contract has ETFs because the phone was subsidized, right? The contract exists to ensure that AT&T gets their money back on the subsidy. Why do they also get to dictate what I do with the phone?

    5. Re:Don't buy subsidized phones by cocofifi · · Score: 1

      Indeed - the simple solution is to buy the phone in a version that is not locked by the carrier. If you buy a subsidized one you agree to a contract, and breaking the terms of an agreement has to have consequences under law terms.

    6. Re:Don't buy subsidized phones by Mitreya · · Score: 1

      It's pretty simple what you can do about it: Don't buy subsidized phones.

      NO! What you mean is -- "Don't subsidize phones"
      With most carriers (except T-Mobile) you pay the same price regardless. Therefore, if you do not get a subsidized phone, you still pay the phone subsidy! If you go with Verizon/AT&T/etc you might as well get a subsidized phone because you will be paying for it no matter what.

      So what you meant to say is -- do not buy a subsidized phone and get an account with T-Mobile (to my knowledge, the only major carrier that will actually offer a cheaper non-subsidized plan rate).

    7. Re:Don't buy subsidized phones by Weezul · · Score: 1

      Are you saving any money by not taking their subsidy though?

      Is Airvoice currently the cheapest phone provider in the U.S. loike this suggests?
      http://www.prepaidgsm.net/en/usa.php

      --
      The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
    8. Re:Don't buy subsidized phones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that, folks, is the gist of it!

      You want things reversed? Hit the Corporations where it hurts most - in their pocketbook. They have to answer to Stockholders, bottom line.

      I have never purchased a "locked" phone, and I never will. If you do, well, who's fault is that?

    9. Re:Don't buy subsidized phones by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      I bought a second hand 3GS and decided to pay for a SIM unlock rather than having to wait for ultrasn0w to update every time iOS increments. It's too bad future purchasers of used phones won't have that option open to them. And for what it's worth, AT&T doesn't seem willing to unlock an old phone for a non-customer, so I went through a third-party unlocker.

      As you describe it, AT&T has no business connection with you anymore. Apple is the copyright holder of the firmware, but I suppose they don't care whether you unlock your phone or not (they are actually happier if people can buy used iPhones, because that makes people who own older iPhones sell their old ones and buy new ones instead of hanging on to the old phone).

      So all that is needed is a public statement from Apple that _they_ allow you to modify _their_ firmware in an iPhone that you own in order to get phone service.

    10. Re:Don't buy subsidized phones by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      No, the buyer is not "stuck". The decision only applies to phones under contract.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    11. Re:Don't buy subsidized phones by sycorob · · Score: 1

      Who do you buy your service from? And are you getting a discount because they're not subsidizing your phone?

    12. Re:Don't buy subsidized phones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lloooool you had to pay for your unlock!! I hahah crazy as backwards country.

      In Australia we only pay for the calls we make, and and the data we use.

      Unlocks come for free on request FOR ALL PHONES, and my I phone since 3g? (the first we got) unlocked. The total cost to get them unlocked? If you are on contract, the only get it unlocked any time. Prepaid after you have spent 90 dollars on recharges, unlocked.

      My HTC phone from our premium carrier came already unlocked. That's the premium 4G HTC phone. I suspect my I phone would have been locked if I'd gone that, but 2 minutes on the phone and no worries.

      You Americans need some consumer protection laws. I locking harms the industry. Sell on contract? I you have a right to lock the phone until the end of the contract. I at which point the carrier should be COMPELLED to unlock the phone. Break your contract? Can't recoup the phone? Register the fucking imei stolen or take the contract holder to court. I its not fucking rocket science and you don't have to me criminals of your customers to do it.

  14. What can you do? Simple. by rrohbeck · · Score: 1

    Since old phones are grandfathered, don't buy a new phone as long as you can't use it the way you want to use it.
    My phone is good enough and shows no sign of wear.

    1. Re:What can you do? Simple. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The phone I use every day is 10 motherfucking years old, and I still love it. The best part is that when it finally breaks, it'll cost $30 or less to replace.

      (capcha: vintage)

  15. I know what I'll be doing. by davmoo · · Score: 0

    I'll be ignoring the law, unlocking any damned phone I buy (I buy them on eBay or Craig's List, not on contract), and any division of government or commercial cellular entity that doesn't like it can lick the sweat off my balls.

    --
    I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
    1. Re:I know what I'll be doing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you buy phones off ebay and craigslist that somebody got for $99 on contract, then defaulted on the contract and sold it, you're basically buying stolen goods. So good luck with that.

      Don't get me wrong, I think it's a stupid and unnecessary law too, but if you're going to be pissed, be pissed for the right reasons. The problem isn't the new law, the problem is so many people not understanding the difference between lease-purchasing something on contract, and buying it.

      Do Americans even bother READING their contracts, because I'd be prepared to bet there's absolutely nothing ambiguous about who "owns" the phone you pay "$99 + $nn x 36 months" for, up to month 37.

    2. Re:I know what I'll be doing. by jsm18 · · Score: 1

      I have never signed a cell phone contract, so I need some help understanding this. Is there a provision in the contract that says that the carrier can repossess the phone for defaulting on the contract? If not, I don't see how a phone that was resold under contract is stolen goods.

  16. Is this really a "done deal"? by loshwomp · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Is there some explicit "no unlocking whatsoever" clause in the DMCA? As far as I'm aware, the only thing that's happened is that the explicit exemption for unlocking has expired. While I'm not volunteering to be the test case, it seems like there's a good case to be made that the generic DMCA language doesn't forbid unlocking.

    In most cases, I'm not altering the software on the phone by unlocking it. I'm merely entering a code, and the phone already has software onboard specifically for the purpose of unlocking that phone when I enter said code.

    1. Re:Is this really a "done deal"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is there some explicit "no unlocking whatsoever" clause in the DMCA? As far as I'm aware, the only thing that's happened is that the explicit exemption for unlocking has expired. While I'm not volunteering to be the test case, it seems like there's a good case to be made that the generic DMCA language doesn't forbid unlocking.

      In most cases, I'm not altering the software on the phone by unlocking it. I'm merely entering a code, and the phone already has software onboard specifically for the purpose of unlocking that phone when I enter said code.

      By entering said code, you are enabling or disabling said feature(s). Now turn this back around on your very own change control policies within the organization you work for and tell me how that isn't "altering the software".

      I see your point here in the overall context, but let's not mince words. You are entering that unlock code for a reason, so that it may work with additional networks, perhaps with additional features or even enable different frequencies or protocols. You are altering that device.

    2. Re:Is this really a "done deal"? by green1 · · Score: 1

      You also alter the device when you change the wallpaper. Nobody has suggested that that is illegal.
      If the phone has the feature, and all you do is enable it or disable it using a supplied user interface, it's hard to argue that this is altering the phone any more or less than turning on or off the ringer, changing the wallpaper, or even updating your contact list.

      Now if you have to flash new firmware to unlock it, that might be different. but simply entering a code? I do that every time I turn on the phone.

  17. Re:Do something they don't want! by Smauler · · Score: 1

    To an Alpha, the Law is seen in the same light as a mugger. Both are potential threats, but neither are to be respected.

    Organization has been around for ages - No matter how big one man gets, unless he joins a system, 10 men will be bigger than him.

    That's kind of the point of the law - we have the entire country backing up the little man.... or at least that is how it is supposed to work

    It doesn't work right in lots of cases - but it's better than everyone for himself.

  18. No more unlocking our phones? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hell, let'em completely stiffle innovation, see what that does for their bottom line.

  19. Maybe you should have thought of this earlier? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Like, you know, when the law was proposed, or accepted, years ago? Complaining after-the-fact is easy and if a government acts on such complaints, it would become an enormous mess. I don't particularly care eitherway -I live in the Europe, most countries here require telco's to provide unlock procedures within one year of the purchase of a phone-, but if you actually care, you should take action before the law is signed. Fixing laws after signing makes the government unreliable. Problematic laws should be addressed, but this should not become the rule, as it sometimes seems to have become.

  20. USA! USA! by coder111 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is it just me, or is capitalism in USA becoming even scarier than socialism in USSR was? I mean, I understand ending up in a mental institution (or a gulag in earlier times) for criticising the party. That's harsh and ruthless and unfair and evil, but at least understandable. But life-ruining fines and jail time for downloading an mp3 or using a device you own to the fullest? That's just insane. Well, not insane. It's exactly the same thing. It's a punishment for resistance against the Powers that Be. In USSR this was the government and the party, so you were punished for speaking up against government. In USA government does not matter. In USA it's the corporations, so you'll get punished for doing anything at all that annoys them.

    Compared to being ruled by these corporations, politburo looks like a good idea...

    --Coder

    1. Re:USA! USA! by Luckyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In Russia, power is money.
      In USA, money is power.

    2. Re:USA! USA! by kdemetter · · Score: 2

      Extremes are always a lot closer than it seems : in extreme socialism/communism everything is controlled by a single government entity ( the government owns everything, including all companies )
      In extreme capitalism, everything is controlled by a single company ( the company owns everything, including the government ).

      Unsurprisingly , the end results are the same.

    3. Re:USA! USA! by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Extremes are always a lot closer than it seems : in extreme socialism/communism everything is controlled by a single government entity ( the government owns everything, including all companies )
      In extreme capitalism, everything is controlled by a single company ( the company owns everything, including the government ).

      Unsurprisingly , the end results are the same.

      Right, compare Stalinism and Nazism, one extreme left wing the other extreme right wing, the difference wasn't really all that great in the way they operated. One of my favorite descriptions of these two systems comes from some nameless Soviet citizen who observed that Russians were forced to choose between two homicidal dictators and they chose the one who spoke Russian.

      --
      Only to idiots, are orders laws.
      -- Henning von Tresckow
    4. Re:USA! USA! by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The systems aren't that much different when you strip the fluff.

      Both systems are founded on a lie. The Communist lie was "Work hard today, and we'll all be living in paradise tomorrow." The Capitalist lie is more insidious, because it's more personal. "Work hard, and you can be rich too". What's insidious about it is that success is only dependent on YOU. If Communism fails, we all failed, and hence the system. If you don't work out in Capitalism, it only means you didn't work hard enough, it doesn't mean that the system is a lie. And as if to prove it is, there are some people who actually "made it", who managed to get rich. But once you look closer and find out just HOW they got rich, you notice that most of them either came from rich backgrounds or had backers who Joe Average has no chance of ever meeting. What's left of those self-made millionaires, who actually had an idea, risked everything and succeeded, is pretty close in number to lottery millionaires.

      In other words, if you want to get rich, forget working and buy a lottery ticket. It's much easier, less risky and more likely.

      The only "advantage" the Capitalist system has over the Communist one is that it's harder to see through. Plus we do not have a "West" that would show us that there's a better way.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Russia was communism, not socialism.

    6. Re:USA! USA! by Forever+Wondering · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In Russia, they had a saying: "With capitalism, man exploits man. With communism, it's the other way 'round ..."

      --
      Like a good neighbor, fsck is there ...
    7. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics?

    8. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      America isn't a capitalist country, it's (becoming) a corporate facism where corporations buy laws, lawmakers and politicians alike.

    9. Re:USA! USA! by smi.james.th · · Score: 1

      This isn't capitalism. Under a properly capitalist system, laws such as the DMCA (which is what this is, if I'm not mistaken? I'm not American, I'm not sure) would never be allowed, in fact a capitalist government's purpose is to protect the rights of its citizens, so quite the opposite of this in fact.

      --
      One thing I know, and that is that I am ignorant...
    10. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes it's so terrible hard to get an unlocked phone, oh wait, google sells them directly at a lower price than most locked phones. And t mobile gives you a cheaper rate, $480 cheaper over 2 years, and the phone is costs less than that. Oh the horror.

    11. Re:USA! USA! by JustOK · · Score: 1

      a lie.

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    12. Re:USA! USA! by coder111 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Um, USSR was NOT communism. They were "building communism", and communism was supposed to be achieved in 5 or 10 or 20 years, if they keep exceeding the 5-year plans. The actual regime was planned economy based socialism, which was supposed to be "the road to communism". Communism itself was some dreamy utopia in the future. Oh, and of course it was all based on communist ideology, but actual communism never happened.

      Look up the old "when we reach communism" jokes if you are interested :)

      --Coder

    13. Re:USA! USA! by coder111 · · Score: 4, Informative

      This is not about the damn phones. This is about your basic rights and freedoms and liberties as a consumer and a citizen.

      It looks to me that every year more and more laws in USA are being passed to the benefit of corporations, and less and less to the benefit of the people. Government in USA looks completely disfunctional. And I wouldn't care that much about it- I don't live in the USA. But USA right now is the biggest world power, and it keeps pushing all this crap down everyone's throats with all their might and influence.

      --Coder

    14. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... a capitalist government's purpose is to protect the rights of its citizens, so quite the opposite of this in fact.

      Don't forget, in America, corporations are people (and therefore citizens).

    15. Re:USA! USA! by smi.james.th · · Score: 1

      A fair point, but the privileges of one group of citizens shouldn't be given at the expense of another group... I realise that this is a difficult balance to strike but I think it's quite clear to see that things are quite extreme in one direction right now.

      --
      One thing I know, and that is that I am ignorant...
    16. Re:USA! USA! by sourcerror · · Score: 1

      Russia was socialism lead by a communist party.

    17. Re:USA! USA! by erdraug · · Score: 1

      Actually, it reminds more of Brazil .

    18. Re:USA! USA! by 1s44c · · Score: 2

      In Russia, power is money.
      In USA, money is power.

      There should be a great amount of money and power to be gained by moving between Russian and the US often.

    19. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think US has been heading towards crazy for a long time, atleast sinec before Bush senior was president. It's as to see how they "shit can" people in the US, they migh aswell establish labourcamps at this point.

    20. Re:USA! USA! by Raenex · · Score: 1

      Is it just me, or is capitalism in USA becoming even scarier than socialism in USSR was? I mean, I understand ending up in a mental institution (or a gulag in earlier times) for criticising the party. That's harsh and ruthless and unfair and evil, but at least understandable. But life-ruining fines and jail time for downloading an mp3 or using a device you own to the fullest? That's just insane.

      It's fucked up and corrupt corporate cronyism, but people able to speak out and vote still means something. SOPA was a good example. "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." We can't give up the fight despite some setbacks, moaning in despair while ignoring the freedoms we do have.

    21. Re:USA! USA! by bluegutang · · Score: 1

      In Russia, power is money.
      In USA, money is power.

      More like:

      In USA, money is power.
      In Soviet Russia, power is money.

    22. Re:USA! USA! by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      In Russia, power is money. In USA, money is power.

      In Soviet Russia, Government owns Corporations!

    23. Re:USA! USA! by Yvanhoe · · Score: 1

      The difference being that the majority of voters are apparently ok with that.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    24. Re:USA! USA! by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      It's just you, and it wasn't the "socialism" in the USSR. It was the totalitarianism that made them really frightening to live with.

      It's a matter of degree: the USA is certainly committing abuses, both legally and illegally, against its own citizens.

    25. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it just me, or is capitalism in USA becoming even scarier than socialism in USSR was?

      USSR - people get executed without a reason just to keep population intimidated
      USA - if you buy a locked phone, you cannot legally unlock it

      well, totaly...USA is scarier by far!

      I mean, this law is super stupid....but you are even more, if you say things like that ;)

    26. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must be confused - this is not capitalism.

    27. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, compare Stalinism and Nazism, one extreme left wing the other extreme right wing

      - can you maybe explain your position on Stalinism being 'extreme left' and Nazism being 'extreme right'?

      Does anybody actually understand these terms and shouldn't people stop using these or at least give a legend underneath their comment telling the world exactly what they mean by 'left' and 'right'?

      Stalinism was an oppressive authoritarian system.
      Nazism was an oppressive authoritarian system.

      Stalinism came out of the socialist ideology, the bolshevik revolution was as pro-Marx as it got in the former USSR.

      Nazism came out of mostly voluntary socialist ideology, when the former international socialists were pushed aside by the more dictatorial 'democratic' nationalist socialists.

      Notice the main difference: international vs national but also voluntary vs dictatorial.

      There is no 'right' or 'left' in that sense. The 'left' actually comes out of the classical liberal ideas, which would be considered 'right' by many people today, especially in USA.

      --

      What I am saying you have to be precise, and here is how:

      Stalinism and Nazism are the same ideology. They are both ultra-nationalist, they are both supposedly 'democratic' (which by the way, is a terrible idea, democracy is a way for idiots to sell their individual rights and become slaves, because they are promised something known as 'fair' outcomes at the expense of the wealthier people).

      Stalinism and Nazism are not different systems. One is not more right than another, one is not more left than another.

      Here is what they are:

      They are ANTI-individual.
      They are ANTI-free market competitive capitalist.
      They are PRO-collectivist.
      They are PRO-authoritarian.
      They are PRO-dictatorial.

      They rely on discipline and harsh punishment to keep people in check and to allow some elite politicians to live well above the rest by controlling means of production and distribution of everything.

      Soviet Union was started in a way that was similar the way Germany was operated prior to the WWI, both had these socialists that were aiming for Marxism and even communism. But how can you have communism? It's impossible. No state, no competition, communal means of production and communal means of distribution on a mass scale (countrywide)?

      Communism works somewhat IN FAMILIES, that's all, and even there with 50% divorce rate it doesn't work out. People can't live together, once the sex drive stops clouding judgement, people realise they want their own space, individual freedoms, not to be trumped by even such a small collective.

      But of-course as an American, whenever you say "right" vs "left" you just mean "Republican" vs "Democrat", which means nothing at all, since that's the same thing. What's the difference? Either party doesn't cut any gov't, either party is for gov't growth, either party is for printing money, either party is for further destruction of individual liberties one way or another.

      When the main issue between them becomes some talk about gays and abortions and whether taxes should be 35% vs 39% you KNOW it's pure political nonsense, designed specifically for your consumption, to make you think there is a difference.

      Finally I would like to end with this little rant:

      Read my JE to realise the nonsense that goes on in your government and politics. Economic self-destruction came out of populist socialist policies, which became the engine of the fascist implementation you are currently observing. All that shit started with Teddy Roosevelt and then became worse and worse, especially under Hoover and FDR and all the traitor bullshit salesmen that came after, including the current fine-tuned, custom fitted for perfect penetration of your asshole bullshit salesman.

    28. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And one could argue that USSR & co didn't have real communism either.

    29. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stalinism was Communism. Nazism is Socialism.

      Both are extreme. Both are left wing.

    30. Re:USA! USA! by Poisonous+Drool · · Score: 1

      Compared to being ruled by these corporations, politburo looks like a good idea...

      Yea, it's a great idea:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

    31. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stalin's Russian was very poor. Mainly he spoke Georgian.

    32. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The USSR was no true Scotsman.

    33. Re:USA! USA! by jbmartin6 · · Score: 2

      Agree. At first I felt "well, the carriers ARE substantially underwriting the phones, why shouldn't they have some say in how they are used?" But then I thought, why the hell do we need a new law with excessive new penalties for this? The carrier was always free to take this to small claims court to get their couple hundred bucks back for breach of contract. So I'm not bent out of shape that the carriers want to make restrictive contracts. I am bent out of shape that "my" government wasted its time making a ridiculous hysterical overreaction to what is at best very petty crime. If I were a praying man, I'd be praying right now that I can get on the first jury trial to test this law.

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    34. Re:USA! USA! by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      You're thinking US style. In Russia, government doesn't own corporations. It controls them. There's a difference.

    35. Re:USA! USA! by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      If you think that this has changed, you're rather naive.

    36. Re:USA! USA! by Vreejack · · Score: 1

      Give it a rest. Hitler had all the socialists arrested, both inside and outside his party. Many of them were murdered. His biggest supporters were industrial magnates. In the Spanish civil war he sided with Franco against the socialists. After eliminating the Jewish threat, his number two goal was to eliminate the "bacillus" of socialism, especially as instituted in Russia. If Poland had not been in the way then France and Great Britain would have never gone to war, as Hitler's first and only attack would have been east against Stalin. It was his hope that they would stay out anyway. Of course they didn't, but that did not stop him from eventually attempting his real goal: the overthrow of Stalin's leftist regime.

      --
      "Will future ages believe that such stupid bigotry ever existed!" -- Ivanhoe
    37. Re:USA! USA! by compro01 · · Score: 1

      The carrier was always free to take this to small claims court to get their couple hundred bucks back for breach of contract. So I'm not bent out of shape that the carriers want to make restrictive contracts.

      And this extends beyond the end of the contract. Without the carrier's permission, you are not allowed to unlock the phone, ever.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    38. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry you have such a limited view of capitalism. You forgot the two other axioms of capitalistic management.
      1. promote those who you like, not those who can do the job well. they will keep you looking good to the boss above you.
      2. kill off those who don't make you look good to your boss.

      There is a common thread in capitalism/communisium/fuedalism they all have the worst on top. They all peter principal to the top. Was Stalin the best that the Russians had? No, he just killed off the competition.They are all lead by a "Man" male female it don't give a shit, but Mankind. Leading to the megamanical "thru the grace of god", "I am the appointed one". "Therefore I can do no wrong" "it's your time to die" type of bullshit. But i do agree with your assesment on how to get rich, it's all a gamble, with the "cream" floating to the top.

    39. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Give it a rest. Hitler had all the socialists arrested, both inside and outside his party. Many of them were murdered.

      - so what? Stalin killed more people than Hitler that were also socialists and actually many of whom were convinced Leninist Marxists.

      as I said the reality is that Nazism and Stalinism are both authoritative oppressive anti-capitalist systems that rested upon the willingness of the mob to be part of the 'collective', which was sold to them as socialist or Marxit type of ideology. People give up their individual rights and then dictators rule them, that's the inevitable plight of all socialist beginnings.

      People should not fall prey to the promises of government taking care of them by stealing from some, who are more productive than they are, at the end it's a trap, which leads to one singular outcome - dictatorial oppressive government.

      Many of them were murdered. His biggest supporters were industrial magnates.

      - precisely, anti-individualistic, anti competitive free market capitalism. The people who get to power don't care about ideology, they are now part of the powerful elite, ideology means exactly 0 for them. The people who are not in power should care about ideology and not selling their principles.

      People who sell their principles end up without freedoms but as slaves in a system that is ran by whoever gets to power. Those who get to power are able to do it because the idiot masses sold out their principles (if they had any in the first place).

      overthrow of Stalin's leftist regime.

      - wow, what a crazy statement. Leftist regime? Again, more meaningless monikers.

    40. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot about the people who started dirt poor and were able to send their kids to college. Just because you didn't go on to become a billionaire does not mean you did not succeed.

    41. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Give it a rest. Hitler had all the socialists arrested, both inside and outside his party. Many of them were murdered.

      - so what? Stalin killed more people than Hitler that were also socialists and actually many of whom were convinced Leninist Marxists.

      And Hitler killed a whole bunch of center right people as well as a whole bunch of his own followers that he perceived to be a threat. Trying to make the Nazis out to have been just another flavor of Communist because want to wash a stain out of the coat tails of the conservative right is downright ignorant.

      - precisely, anti-individualistic, anti competitive free market capitalism. The people who get to power don't care about ideology, they are now part of the powerful elite, ideology means exactly 0 for them. The people who are not in power should care about ideology and not selling their principles.

      I.e. people who have traditionally supported the political right. The Bolshies and Stalin shot those people or sent them to the gulags hint... hint... birds of a feather...

      - wow, what a crazy statement. Leftist regime? Again, more meaningless monikers

      You are the one who called the Nazis a left wing movement.

    42. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I sincerely disagree. Communism (That came from the word community or common) existed in tribes all around world where there's no concept of individual property, where all property belongs to the tribe and the community. It existed today in much smaller scale. That is the family where all goods belongs to the family in one way of another. In my opinion, it is not possible to achieve such "communist" status in a group of people bigger than few dozens individuals, much less in a globalized world.

    43. Re:USA! USA! by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      Right, compare Stalinism and Nazism, one extreme left wing the other extreme right wing, the difference wasn't really all that great in the way they operated.

      Their domestic and economic policies were fairly different. But people mostly remember them for being brutal autocrats, which is really orthogonal to their politics.

    44. Re:USA! USA! by suutar · · Score: 1

      used phones are legal to unlock. As I read the decision, a strong case could be made for phones that are just out of contract, but used is explicitly stated.

    45. Re:USA! USA! by berashith · · Score: 1

      If a lawyer finds out that you understand that a jury has a right to impact law, then you will never make in onto the panel.

    46. Re:USA! USA! by quacking+duck · · Score: 2

      Stalinism was Communism. Nazism is Socialism.

      Both are extreme. Both are left wing.

      And North Korea is democratic. It's right in their official name (Democratic People's Republic of Korea)! They wouldn't lie in the very name they give themselves, would they? /extreme_sarcasm

      Your actions define you, not your name. By actions, the Nazis were fascist, not socialist, and in the simple but flawed single-axis political spectrum, that falls more in line with right-wing thinking. So very sorry your feelings are hurt by the simple truth that fascists are ideologically closer to conservatives than they are to liberals, but trying to rewrite or deny history to ease your conscience is pathetic.

    47. Re:USA! USA! by Drgnkght · · Score: 1

      Yes it's so terrible hard to get an unlocked phone, oh wait, google sells them directly at a lower price than most locked phones.

      Yes, and good luck getting one of them from Google.

    48. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How exactly is Nazism (National Socialism) a right wing idealogy? Their platform was quite leftist.

    49. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well said.

      As for your "we do not have a "West" that would show us that there's a better way." -- we do indeed have a 'West' that can, and is showing a better way. In a sense it is the Internet (and the collective wisdom contained therein).

      Fundamentally we're headed towards realizing that we're all part of a holo-dynamic self-organising universe (nonlocally interconnected, at-once). The Internet will enable that to become more obvious.

      Plenty of material on the net that elaborates on the detail (quantum physics).

    50. Re:USA! USA! by coder111 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I meant to say "actual communism never happened IN USSR". You are right, some primitive societies and small communes probably managed to achieve it, at least for a limited time. One of my friends was interested in joining or starting a self-sustaining eco-commune, so he studied things like this quite a lot. Apparently things like shared property can be made to work as long as community is tightly knit, shares ideology, and is smaller than 50 persons. It's almost impossible to scale it successfully.

      Not that I support communism or USSR. USSR and Czarist Russia before that had occupied my country twice and they did lots of genocide and oppression there. I grew up behind the iron curtain hating USSR and Russia,and believing USA was some land of freedom and fairness and prosperity and opportunity. I am so sad to see USA go the wrong way for last ~15-20 years. Although maybe my initial image of USA was too idealized- they did quite a few dirty things in the cold war as well.

      --Coder

    51. Re:USA! USA! by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 1

      How exactly is Nazism (National Socialism) a right wing idealogy? Their platform was quite leftist.

      Romey-care and Medicare Part D are essentially socialist ideas. God knows, I have heard enough loudmouths shout that into a microphone on Fox News. Nevertheless it seems that, you can still steal ideas from socialists and use them to buy yourself votes, even thought you are a card carrying conservative because both Romney and Bush both did it. Not that I'm trying to compare US Republicans to Nazis but they do provide a few very good examples for how right wing politicians have borrowed ideas they claim to abhor from the left. Another good example is Otto von Bismark who introduced old age pensions, accident insurance, medical care and unemployment insurance to disarm the German Social Democrat party. The Nazis themselves claimed they were neither left nor right but still they accepted support from leading conservatives of their day while throwing Social Democrats and communists/socialists/marxists into KZ camps or just beating them to death in Gestapo dungeons. They even formed a coalition government with the DNVP a far right nationalist party. The Nazis got large sums of money from some very wealthy right wingers. If you know anything about the politics of the 1920s and 30s you'd know that wealthy bankers and industrialists of that period would rather have burned their money than use it to support lefties/communists/marxists/socialists so why would they give millions upon millions to Hitler?

      --
      Only to idiots, are orders laws.
      -- Henning von Tresckow
    52. Re:USA! USA! by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      The Capitalist lie is more insidious, because it's more personal. "Work hard, and you can be rich too".

      Looking around at the standard of living in Western countries, it looks like it's pretty much true - you just have a skewed version of what "rich" means. I don't know anyone who works a full week of work who can't afford a house, food, entertainment and gadgets. Sure, the house may not be a massive waterfront mansion; the food may not be gourmet, and they might not have the latest version gadgets, but "work hard and you will prosper" (which is a much more reasonable rendering of the premise of capitalism) seems like it's being fulfilled almost everywhere I can see.

      Sure, there are some people whose labour turns out to be worth a lot more than others, sometimes through brilliance, sometimes through a lucky break, and more often a combination of the two, and there's that unfortunate accretive property of capital, but neither of those change the fact that people who are living in countries that abide by capitalist principles (you are rewarded for what you do) as opposed to feudal (you are rewarded for who your parents are) or communist (you are rewarded for existing) tend to live well.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    53. Re:USA! USA! by rastoboy29 · · Score: 2

      Well, come on now.  The Capitalist ideal is not just that you can get rich, but also just that you can improve yourself through your own hard work.

      And that is still generally true.

    54. Re:USA! USA! by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Can the No True Scotsman fallacy even apply if no living Scotsman ever existed?

    55. Re:USA! USA! by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      Is there a "factually correct" mod we could give this guy? Capitalism is not without its faults, but I'm tired of the constant "Capitalism failed because I'm not rich" argument .

      --
      +1 Disagree
    56. Re:USA! USA! by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

      You're right I should have posted AC

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    57. Re:USA! USA! by bsdewhurst · · Score: 1

      I always remember my old Social Studies teacher who said that the more that the above words (Democratic, People's and Republic) appear in the name of a country the less likely it is that it is true.

    58. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.distributedrepublic.net/archives/2006/05/01/how-many-did-stalin-really-murder/

    59. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not at all. A huge percentage of Baby Boomers went from nothing after WW2 to having millions, just by saving. Now it isn't a "Get rich quick scheme" but anyone can do it, that is a known.

  21. Watch out when installing Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Imagine the fun if they did something similar with operating systems. You bought your laptop with Windows on it. $500,000 and a 5 year prison sentence for switching it to Linux next. After all, Microsoft expects the revenue from their new app store and you are depriving them off that by changing to an open platform!

    It's no more ridiculous than this idea.

    1. Re:Watch out when installing Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a pathetic analogy.

      For a start, if you bought the laptop with Windows on it, Microsoft have already been paid. I don't think there's a law anywhere on the planet now, or being discussed anywhere, that would make it illegal to install Linux on it. And if you intended to run Linux in the first place you'd probably have got the same laptop for less, with freedos (or nothing) on it - so "thank you" from Microsoft, for the free money.

      If you want a laptop analogy, it would need to be along the lines of "You 'bought' your laptop for $99 + 24 x $10 monthly payments". Are you then free to simply not bother with the monthly payments, and sell the laptop?

    2. Re:Watch out when installing Linux by gnasher719 · · Score: 2

      Imagine the fun if they did something similar with operating systems. You bought your laptop with Windows on it. $500,000 and a 5 year prison sentence for switching it to Linux next. After all, Microsoft expects the revenue from their new app store and you are depriving them off that by changing to an open platform!

      And that's getting it completely backwards. The DMCA law makes it illegal to breach encryption, but then exemptions were made to allow people to do things that they should rightfully be allowed to do. Like owning an unlocked phone, or running the OS of your choice. In the case of unlocked phones, it was decided that there are so many ways now to get unlocked phones that no exemption of the DMCA is needed anymore. If it turns out to be hard to install Linux on computers without violating the DMCA, then I would expect a DMCA exemption for that purpose.

      Let's also just say that while it is a DMCA violation for _you_ to unlock a phone, the manufacturer or the service provider will be entirely in their rights to allow it. The manufacturer of a computer would be in their rights to give a general permission to the proper owner of a computer to modify the DRM protected firmware (with obvious consequences if you mess it up), so someone hacking into your computer would still fall under DMCA among other things, while you yourself would have the right to modify the firmware.

    3. Re:Watch out when installing Linux by heefeneet · · Score: 1

      The DMCA law makes it illegal to breach encryption

      Im sure Microsoft would argue that turning off SecureBoot to boot into Linux counts as circumventing encryption.

    4. Re:Watch out when installing Linux by phorm · · Score: 1

      The GP's analogy was perfectly fine.

      Apple has already been paid for the iPhone. The cellular company still has a contract. Even if you unlock your phone for use with another carreir, you're still liable under the early termination clause for breaking your contract early.

      So you bought your laptop for $99 + monthly payments. What does it matter if you install another OS, so long as you continue the payments? Those are for the contact, NOT the software on the device.If you stop with monthly payments and sell the laptop with Windows still installed, you're still in breach of contract and liable for the fees involved.

  22. His goal has been advanced by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    even if Obama wanted to, he's going to save his political capital for those fights which advance his own goals

    Obama got twice as much money as Romney in the last election from Verizon. And that was just one cellular carrier.

    You all think the law as it stands was not very much supported and driven by Democrats? Well enjoy laying in the bed you all voted for. I'm not going to sign the petition because I figure America should get what it asked for, full bore. Enjoy the next four years rubes! That should give you just enough time to truly understand the term Liberal Fascism.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:His goal has been advanced by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      "liberal fascism"? Is that what we got from Bush? Because from here, the new boss looks like the old boss, even after he won a second term, when they said he's come out of his shell because he won't be running again later.

    2. Re:His goal has been advanced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the new boss looks like the old boss

      Oh, don't you say! I'm sure next time will be different. It isn't like the system is working as designed or anything.

    3. Re:His goal has been advanced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You are such a typical example of exactly what's wrong with this country. Douchebag motherfuckers like you would rather see the country burn than doing anything to help just because you were wrong.

      Get the fuck over it. You lost the election. Move on.

      But, like a two year old, you would rather shit all over the country and everyone in it just because you backed the wrong horse.

      You are acting like an obnoxious, colicky child, mentally. Grow the fuck up, asshole.

    4. Re:His goal has been advanced by Genda · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Its not liberal fascism. The whole liberal conservative thing is window dressing, there ain't no such thing as liberal fascism. You're state is fascist or its not. Our state is fascist. Any illusion to the contrary can be cured by a sufficiently long detox period. This is a nation of the corporation, by the corporation and for the corporation and politician's position on Gay Marriage only exist to get the "Rubes" as you so elegantly put it, distracted from the fact that they're being rectally assaulted.

      My friends, they walls keep getting higher and the passages narrower. here's a bit of useful information. After the dip, comes the shearing, There are the herders and the Lamb Chops, and I don't expect anybody writing here is a herder.

    5. Re:His goal has been advanced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think our President, Barack Obama is a dick. Also I don't think there's any racial group I'd consider inferior or subhuman. Hold on while I yell the same thing out of my window.

      ...no, no police knocking on the door yet. Guess it's not fascism.

      Grow up kiddie. The world sucks and there's a lot of stupid powergames going on, and a lot of laws existing that shouldn't. That doesn't mean in any way shape or form our country resembles Mussolini's Italy or Hitler's Germany. Get a sense of proportion.

    6. Re:His goal has been advanced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are such a typical example of exactly what's wrong with this country. Douchebag motherfuckers like you would rather see the country burn than doing anything to help just because you were wrong.

      He did all he could do by voting for someone else, and trying to persuade folks to not vote for the guy who did win. Given that the likes of Verizon dumped a ton of cash into Obama's campaign, you got exactly what you, your dumbfuck sophist buddies --and, oh-- Verizon voted for (and guess whose voice was louder? Hint: Not. Yours.)

      Don't go crying to the folks you just told "You lost the election. Move on." to come help bail your sorry ass out, especially when the guy you supported does something dumb. You shit in your bed, now lie in it until next election.

      Maybe you'll learn a little something come 2016, and maybe vote for a 3rd-party candidate or somesuch and shake things up... but then, I'm guessing you won't.

    7. Re:His goal has been advanced by Genda · · Score: 1

      Apparently you don't know what a Fascist State is, Read Mussolini. This isn't to say that Fascist States don''t tend to devolve into Totalitarian States, but that's usually the end game and you can typically see to big red ka-boom! from that point. No we aren't a totalitarian state... yet, and there are still plenty of freedoms we can still practice without joining THE LARGEST JAIL POPULATION in history.

      They just keep passing the laws and tightening the noose. Free use? There ain't none. Consumer rights? Hahahahaa, so funny. Bill of Rights? One by one, see ya! There's a clear and visible trend here that ends at things like Rendition and places like GitMo. You have plenty of freedom today, and this isn't a police state, but your rights, they are eroding and a wise soul would be guarding that which is most precious, jealously. You may be complacent with the fact that the theft has been done in extreme slow motion and only those of us who are over 50 and spent most of that time awake saw how we got here. All, I can say is, don't trust'em any further than you can throw'em, they aren't your friend.

    8. Re:His goal has been advanced by Genda · · Score: 1

      Let me say this another way. Germany and Italy didn't go into the shit can overnight. In the beginning Fascism is a great way to jump start a stagnant economy, and sure enough it yanked Germany and Italy from deep depressions and at least in the beginning the majority of their citizens loved it. Its all the nasty things that happen after the fact that catch up with you sooner of later. So when I say we live in a fascist state.you need to look first at what that means, for instance by looking at the definition, then at the telltale signs.

      You do that honestly, hold America up to the light of truth and tell me we aren't living in a fascist state, and darling, I'll have to say either, you're in denial, ignorant of the facts or obfuscating the truth. We touch all the base, Home-run. So, the fact that American culture is diverse, rich, and that our founding fathers hamstrung the crap out of our legislatures means we still have a functional country when other less robust nations sucked a gasket and folded. It also means we have a better than even shot at taking back what is rightfully ours, but you have to get clear headed and deadly honest first. We're in trouble, and the facists have been calling the shots now for most of 30 years and if we don't get our heads screwed on straight and take it back soon, then that little bit of levity you have about yelling out a window could sure enough come back to haunt you.

  23. You don't usually pay more by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Not only do you end up paying more for a subsidized phone, you lose your rights to do whatever you want with it.

    That is not true from many angles.

    For one thing a data plan for an iPhone on the major carriers is the same, subsidized or no. So you'd pay more for an unlocked phone, and then pay as much as the guy who bought a phone with a plan for service over two years. Yes you could bail earlier but most people keep the same carrier a few years.

    You could pay less going to a company like T-Mobile but there is very real service degradation. To me even though in the long run that could save money the loss of wider coverage and aggravation makes it a bad tradeoff.

      Secondly, ALL of the major carriers now will unlock the iPhone for you on request - but for international use only. So it's not quite right to say you can't do pretty much anything you want with it - you can, just not in the country you bought the phone in (which to most people is what really matters).

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:You don't usually pay more by jittles · · Score: 1

      Not only do you end up paying more for a subsidized phone, you lose your rights to do whatever you want with it.

      That is not true from many angles.

      For one thing a data plan for an iPhone on the major carriers is the same, subsidized or no. So you'd pay more for an unlocked phone, and then pay as much as the guy who bought a phone with a plan for service over two years. Yes you could bail earlier but most people keep the same carrier a few years.

      You could pay less going to a company like T-Mobile but there is very real service degradation. To me even though in the long run that could save money the loss of wider coverage and aggravation makes it a bad tradeoff.

      Secondly, ALL of the major carriers now will unlock the iPhone for you on request - but for international use only. So it's not quite right to say you can't do pretty much anything you want with it - you can, just not in the country you bought the phone in (which to most people is what really matters).

      If you really want ATT service, go get a StraightTalk SIM for $48 a month and unlimited everything. That is much cheaper than the service you can get directly from ATT. There are ways around the subsidized pricing model that the major carriers use, you just have to buy your own phone first. I'm saving a fortune w/ Walmart Family Mobile.

  24. How would you technically move anyway? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    To me the whole aspect of unlocking in the U.S. is nearly moot because most phones cannot move between AT&T and Verizon, because the technologies used are so different. Verizon and Sprint both use CDMA which was never designed with the SIM approach in mind.

    About all you can do is go from one of the others to T-Mobile. Now I don't hate T-Mobile, but it's a hard and fast truth you are not going to get the same coverage nor network speed there as you would one one of the major carriers.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:How would you technically move anyway? by compro01 · · Score: 1

      CDMA was designed with SIMs in mind. It's called a CSIM. It's just an optional part of the spec, and not implemented by devices sold by US carriers because being able to lock people into their network is beneficial to their business objectives.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
  25. Here in Brazil, it is illegal to sell locked phone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here in Brazil, it is illegal to sell locked phones.

  26. What you can do? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about not buying any locked phones?

    1. Re:What you can do? by Skapare · · Score: 1

      Then you pay full price. We're talking about phones that carriers subsidize the price for with the idea of making that money and more back in your contract. Now after that contract is over, then unlocking should be possible. I'm not that patient so I pay full price up front and do get a never locked phone. But no everyone can afford that. And not everyone can afford being ripped off by carriers, either.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    2. Re:What you can do? by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      So, keeping your phone locked for the duration of the contract is not worth the discount? And, you are not willing to pay full price? Oh, and guess what, after that contract is over, then unlocking is possible. Perhaps you should actually read about the subject.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  27. Taking the petition a bit further by nbahi15 · · Score: 1

    Technological limitations on unlocking your phone aren't the only questionable business practices of cellular providers. I think we need both legalized unlocking, better billing practices, and limitations on the contracts. That is why I put together http://wh.gov/y6kK. Please take a moment to sign it. Body text follows:

    Customers of cellular phone plans in the US are treated poorly. We would like to see regulations that require things like:

    1) A bill that reflects the advertised price, and separate line items that show the cost of the phone plan and the phone.

    2) A bill that shows the cost of the phone purchased and how much of the phone has been paid off

    3) Upon completion of a contract the customer has the right to have any technological restrictions removed that prevent its use on other carriers networks.

    4) The right to buy out the phone and terminate the contract at any time.

    5) A limit to the terms of contracts allowed.

    6) The right to buy a 3rd party phone and join a carriers network with no contractual obligations.

  28. Completely misunderstood by gnasher719 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Fact 1: There is the DMCA law, and it won't go away.
    Fact 2: Unlocking your phone yourself requires a violation of the DMCA law.
    Fact 3: It is entirely reasonable to want an unlocked phone. And it is entirely reasonable that anyone should be able to get an unlocked phone without breaking any criminal laws.

    Three years ago, it was recognized that most people could only fulfil their wish to have an unlocked phone by unlocking it themselves, so an exemption was made that the DMCA violation of unlocking the phone yourself was not considered a crime. Now it is assumed that people can indeed get unlocked phones, so there is no need to unlock yourself, so there is no need for an exemption.

    Now here is the conclusion: Since you are not allowed to unlock a phone yourself, surely your service provider _must_ unlock it when you ask for it and cannot refuse. So instead of asking for permission to violate the DMCA law, people should ask their service provider to unlock the phone and take them to court if they refuse.

    1. Re:Completely misunderstood by Skapare · · Score: 2

      And you should be required to front the cost of them taking the carrier to court, to be paid back only out of the monetary award the court might give them. This is, after all, the moral obligation of anyone that suggests using the courts in a country where the legal system is rigged so only the top two percent can actually afford to use it.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    2. Re:Completely misunderstood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Spain you're allowed to unlock your phone AND your service provider must unlock it when you ask (at least once your multi-year contract is expired or if you paid the ETF) but they always refuse. You could take them to court, but it would be more expensive than a unlocked phone (any).

    3. Re:Completely misunderstood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fact 1: There is the DMCA law, and it won't go away.

      Fact 2: Unlocking your phone yourself requires a violation of the DMCA law.

      Fact 3: It is entirely reasonable to want an unlocked phone. And it is entirely reasonable that anyone should be able to get an unlocked phone without breaking any criminal laws.

      Three years ago, it was recognized that most people could only fulfil their wish to have an unlocked phone by unlocking it themselves, so an exemption was made that the DMCA violation of unlocking the phone yourself was not considered a crime. Now it is assumed that people can indeed get unlocked phones, so there is no need to unlock yourself, so there is no need for an exemption.

      Now here is the conclusion: Since you are not allowed to unlock a phone yourself, surely your service provider _must_ unlock it when you ask for it and cannot refuse. So instead of asking for permission to violate the DMCA law, people should ask their service provider to unlock the phone and take them to court if they refuse.

      I am not an American, so my knowledge of the DMCA may not be as much as some, but could someone say how unlocking your phone violates DMCA?
      What is the copyright being protected by the locking of the phone? I personally don't think the DMCA applies.

    4. Re:Completely misunderstood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > surely your service provider _must_ unlock it when you ask for it and cannot refuse.

      I just called 611 on my AT&T phone, and they unlocked it. I'm planning on reselling it so that is important to me so I can get more for the phone. Maybe they only did it since I've been a customer for over ten years and paid every bill in full and on time, but I had no problem with it.

  29. How America has withered ... by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes, that phone unlocking law is totally ridiculous.

    That law suits North Korea much better than it does in America.

    But the fact that this has happened in the United States of America says a lot about how the Americans themselves have changed.

    It used to be that the congress critters were afraid of their constituents.

    It used to be that those living inside (and the surrounding area) of Washington D.C. have to listen to the people living outside of that area.

    No more.

    Nowadays we have ridiculous laws being passed, without even a single objection from the public.

    Nowadays the Americans are so complacent, that the congress (and the White House) get to do anything that they want to do, because they are not afraid of their constituents anymore.

    The death of Mr. Aaron Swartz should not have happened in America.

    America supposed to be a country where abusive officials do not get any foothole.

    In fact, the birth of the United States of America was because the British government got too abusive, so much so that the people rose up and chased out the Brits.

    I used to live in America in the 1960's till early 2000's, and I've witnessed the change myself.

    Americans no longer care for freedom.

    Americans no longer willing to fight for liberty.

    In other words, America has withered.

    Can someone please change the wording of the American national anthem ?

    The one about "Land of the Free", "Home of the Brave", in more ways than one, no longer apply.

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Congress isn't afraid of the people any more because they've learned how to control them better. Distract the masses with things like immigration reform, gay rights, abortion, things that get people excited. Then while everyone is screaming about those things, pass laws that screw over the common person. That's why I don't think they'll ever resolve the distraction issues. They need them in the news, unresolved, to keep the attention elsewhere.

    2. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In fact, the birth of the United States of America was because the British government got too abusive, so much so that the people rose up and chased out the Brits.

      They didn't "chase out" the British. They met them on the battlefield and killed them.

      Our ancestors killed the Indians, killed the Spanish, killed the Mexicans. Today, we aren't willing to kill anybody for anything. Why on earth should congressmen be afraid? We're pussies.

    3. Re:How America has withered ... by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Americans no longer care for freedom. Americans no longer willing to fight for liberty. In other words, America has withered.

      How about we not engage in hyperbole like this. It makes people who aren't already convinced of it that the point you're trying to make is insane, and it becomes cyclical reasoning as well. And, it's not even true. "Ability to unlock your phone" isn't critical to what I'd call "freedom."

    4. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Do tell how your assault rifle with extended magazine will help you bring down a drone bringing you laser-guided happiness from above?

      "Governement is afraid of our guns!" is extremely silly opinion considering how much better is US military equipment and how far on liberty and oppression scale US is from armed uprisal - here's not Syria, not Lybia and not North Korea. Not even Belarus or even Russia.

      Simply the fact of "OMG, we're oppressed!" comments on the article about phone unlocking shows how far US is from revolution.

    5. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed. In fact, this is all about Americans hoping to violate contracts legally. Let's face reality here: the only phones being banned from unlocking are those under contracts: you get a $600 phone for $100 from a carrier that's underwriting the cost of the phone based on a profit from 2 years of service. That's just sensible, the carrier wants to make money, not give it to you. You can still buy a phone directly, avoiding the carrier's contract, and unlock it and play with it all you want. It's just going to cost you the full $600 unless you can find it discounted somewhere. The carrier is not discounting his phones, he's underwriting the investment cost with full and deserved expectations of returns. This this really boils down to a lot of whining by a lot of people who want to get a fancy phone on the cheap or free. They're wishing for another entitlement, like Social Security.

    6. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Freedom to do what you want with your possessions?

      I'm an anarchist/socialist, but I thought capital and personal possessions were important in America, "Get off my property!" and all that. If you own something, you can do whatever you want with it.

      Imagine if you bought a TV at WalMart and WalMart said that you can't can't play xbox on it, but you can play PS3 (because Sony paid licensing fees, and Microsoft didn't).

      America has shifted from "freedom to pursue happiness" to "freedom to choose" and now it's "freedom to do what we tell you".

        Seriously, wake up.

    7. Re:How America has withered ... by CaptainLard · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Seriously. Most of the tyrannical aspects of america bemoaned on /. disappear if you chose to live your life in the same way as someone in say, the early 1990's. Which of course you are free to do. Yeah you still gotta deal with the TSA if you fly but if you don't use the internet or a cell phone, no corporation will be able to track you and you don't have to give up all your legal rights at every turn to do stuff. Its probably too much to give up for most of us at this point but it is still an option none-the-less.

    8. Re:How America has withered ... by bleh-of-the-huns · · Score: 2

      While you are mostly correct, there are some issues that still need to be resolved. On contract, you are spot on, after the contract has expired is a different story. No matter what ATT says, they almost never provide the unlock codes for phones once the contract has expired. Go ahead, and try, see what happens.

      That is the primary issue at hand, I have fulfilled my end of the contract, and I should be able to do as I please, whether that is remain, or take my device elsewhere. As an exercise, every time I upgrade (as much as I hate ATT, they provide the best service in my area and are significantly faster then anyone else.. LTE I get around 50mbit down, 30mbit up, compared to my corp Verizon phone with LTE that maxes out around 15mbit both ways), I attempt to get ATT to unlock the phones, that's 3 iPhones, over the last 5 years, and close to 5 or 6 Android/Windows Mobile phones (family contract with 2 lines). Every single time I have hit a brick wall with ATT. That's not to say I have not managed to unlock them on my own using alternate methods, but that's not the point.

      ATT sees an unlocked phone, as a lost potential sale, even on the used phone market, keep the phone locked, the next purchaser will have to use ATT, or break the law now, or go outside the US and get the phone unlocked.

      And a side note, while yes, they are subsidizing the cost of the phone when you sign up for a 2 year contract, hoping to make their money back over the term of the contract. But that same contract also notes that if you choose to leave before the end of the contract, you pay a penalty, whether or not that is the full ETF, or a prorated ETF based on the amount of time on the contract is irrelevant, you have two options, remain a customer, or pay the ETF. So unlocking your phone should have no bearing on that, as you are most likely going to remain a customer, with an unlocked phone (who may use it to travel elsewhere on this planet), or you are going to pay the ETF. As for the first part, using an unlocked phone elsewhere, well ATT has a vested interest in forcing you to use ATT's international roaming rates, they are ridiculously overpriced, and a good money maker for carriers in the current age of IP routed networks vs the old voice switched networks, where the cost was much higher. Therefore they like to refuse to unlock (some people have managed to get their phones unlocked, but it takes jumping through some serious hoops)

      --
      I came, I conquered, I coredumped
    9. Re:How America has withered ... by nedlohs · · Score: 2

      Freedom to make private contracts. Should WalMart not be allowed to offer you a TV for 10% of the normal price if you also contract with them to not play xbox on it?

      You can always pay the full price without the contract

    10. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does that solve the problem? You might as well say that this unlocking law will disappear for anyone who doesn't want to unlock their phone. Your entire post is a tautology. And it got modded up somehow. On Slashdot.

    11. Re:How America has withered ... by Vreejack · · Score: 2

      Once my contract was over I called them up and they gave me the unlocking code. Took a couple of minutes. I've done it a couple of times. So, I I do not understand your claim that "they almost never provide the unlock codes for phones once the contract has expired."

      --
      "Will future ages believe that such stupid bigotry ever existed!" -- Ivanhoe
    12. Re:How America has withered ... by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      You're this guy? God bless you, man, for saving our liberties.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    13. Re:How America has withered ... by Koreantoast · · Score: 1

      Yes, because immigration reform and equal rights for homosexuals are stupid, trivial issues that are a waste of time that common men shouldn't be bothered with or care about. *sigh*

    14. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The one about "Land of the Free", "Home of the Brave", in more ways than one, no longer apply.

      in Europe, we very often use these quotations as jokes, when we read about the manhunt for Assange, Guantanamo, patent trolls and other modern american behaviours.

    15. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't believe he was calling those issues trivial or stupid. They are hot button issues that get everyone up in arms and focused on just those few issues so they ignore everything else while screaming at each other who is right.

    16. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut the hell up about your hyperbole. "Let's all be reasonable" is EXACTLY why they get away with shit like this.

      YOU are the reason america is broken.

      No one ever died regretting that they weren't both sided enough.

    17. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do tell how your [semi-auto carbine] with extended magazine will help you bring down a drone bringing you laser-guided happiness from above? Because laser guided missiles don't round up your children into trains for labor camps. Tyrants need meat to do that, and traitorous meat is capable of being brought down with a semi-auto carbine with extended magazine.

    18. Re:How America has withered ... by gauauu · · Score: 2

      No matter what ATT says, they almost never provide the unlock codes for phones once the contract has expired. Go ahead, and try, see what happens.

      Ok, I'll bite. I just did this the past week. I have 2 AT&T smartphones. One is under contract, one isn't. I called asking them to unlock both of them, and they gave me unlock codes without hesitation. So no, in my anecdotal experience, this isn't the case. In my experience, AT&T is happy to unlock your phone if you just ask politely, EVEN IF IT IS STILL UNDER CONTRACT.

    19. Re:How America has withered ... by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      That is perhaps the most boring evil plan I've ever heard.

    20. Re:How America has withered ... by briancox2 · · Score: 1

      Being able to make all decisions regarding what you do with items you have purchased (barring those that infinge on the life, liberty or pursuit of happiness of others) is absolutely critical to the American concept of freedom. Maybe not the Russian concept of freedom. But it is absolutely engrained in the expectations of freedom in the United States.

      --
      We should learn what we need to know about issues, before we decide what we need to feel about them.
    21. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you'll sit on your gun waiting for "rounding up children" part, you'll be already in one of those camps or dead, after the "late night visits from friendly law enforcement" part. And if you'll take your gun and march with others, you'll be a nice target for happiness-bringing drones.

      See, that's the fun part - before it comes to late night visits stage, bringing your guns out will be too early and will just make you news of the day under the heading "mad terrorist shoots people, taken down by sniper", and after it'll be too late and just make you a drone target.

      Sitting at home clinging to your gun and thinking "US is safe while I have this" won't stop tyranny from coming. Those hippies from Occupy have better chances at it, as long as they don't stop coming. May be you should walk with them next time you feel worried about tyrranies?

    22. Re:How America has withered ... by suutar · · Score: 1

      It's not illegal to unlock a used phone, just a new one. In fact, as I read it, it doesn't look to be illegal to unlock a phone that's off contract. But the decision specifically states that used phones qualify as "legacy" devices and that unlocking them is okay, specifically because getting the carrier to do it may be a PITA.

    23. Re:How America has withered ... by aonic · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry, but "things like immigration reform, gay rights, abortion" aren't "distractions" to the 11 million undocumented workers living in this country, the millions of gay and lesbian citizens living without the full protection of the law, or the women in states that either require invasive, unnecessary medical procedures to get a safe and legal abortion (or those living in states that don't have an abortion provider at all).

      The fact that you consider these things distractions indicates that you are already largely protected by our legal system without the need to worry about persecution for things less trivial than what you do with your cell phone. That's a good thing. We should all enjoy these protections (including the legal freedom do whatever we want with our personal electronics). I just ask that you please stop and think before you dismiss the issues confronting our country as distractions for "the masses."

    24. Re:How America has withered ... by tofarr · · Score: 1

      The problem I have with this is that a breech of contract is a civil, not criminal matter. There should be clauses in the contract that cover this, and the effect should be similar to if you stop paying on a credit card - you don't get thrown in prison, but a debt collecting agency will chase you down. There is already a legal framework in place for this, and additional more draconian laws only serve to erode consumer rights - in this case the right to determine what gets done with things I have purchased. This is definitely not a case of copyright infringement - that law has been bastardised to serve a function different from what was originally intended. How long before this gets extended even further to the point where we start hearing things like: "Using your own cushions with the chair you just bought is copyright infringement, and will result in jail time!" In short, this puts us on a dangerous road.

    25. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We're complacent, because we've learned the hard way that non-complacency accomplishes the exact same thing as complacency.

      Put up the biggest fight of your life, whatever you disagree with goes through with nary a hiccup anyway.
      Be complacent and just let things happen, whatever you disagree with goes through with nary a hiccup anyway.

      It's just that more people are realizing this, and aren't bothering to waste their energy on the inevitable any more.

      Seriously people, when will you learn. YOU HAVE LOST. That's all there is to it. No matter how many petitions you sign, no matter how many protests you rally, no matter how many people you can find that agree with you, the 1% will do what the 1% was planning to do anyway, without even slightly slowing down. The single only time that their process will EVER slow down is if another 1%er decides to go against the first 1%er, such as Google going dark for that full day a bit ago.

      Otherwise... get it through your fucking heads people. We live in a caste system. Anything that you think or say will not change this fact. And yes, it is a fact, and no, you cannot change it. The lower caste has absolutely NO bearing on what the upper caste does. And the upper caste decides all laws, makes all big decisions, and controls every single aspect of your life.

      UNDERSTAND THIS AND GET IT THROUGH YOUR COLLECTIVE SKULLS.

      Seriously people, I'm getting really fucking sick and tired of reading every goddamn day on Slashdot or elsewhere about how "ooohhhh, X monopoly company is doing something that TAKES AWAY OUR RIGHTS! I'm gonna boycott them, and sign petitions, and all kinds of stuff, and we will make a difference!"
      No, no you won't. You won't make even the slightest difference, unless your annual paycheque has has upwards of 7 or 8 zeroes on it. IF YOU ARE ON SLASHDOT READING THIS, YOU ARE IN THE LOWER CASTE. Just fucking accept it already, it's getting tiresome to see people keep fighting an unwinnable fight. And yes, it's unwinnable, no, there's no way to turn it around. That's because you're in the lower caste, you don't make those decisions.

    26. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look in the mirror buddy.

      Quit whimpering then and do something! It used to be people expressed their outrage via phone calls & hand written letters to their elected officials. Now they whine about it to each other online feeling sorry for themselves and bemoaning how futile it is to even try. The teleprompter-ed over voice votes at the RNC and the DNC and everyone was butthurt, but despite the oppression I will not forget the passionate dedication to dissent I saw during the 2008 & 2012 presidential elections.

      Ron Paul supporters(NOT the Glenn Beck tea party) and OWS both made a legitimate and concerted effort to have their dissent to the status quo recorded in the history books. Just like the Bonus Army, their actions and the shameful establishment responses will give confidence to others that they are not alone.

      At least 10-20% of American's still give a shit and that is way more than is necessary to make a difference. If you can herd all of those cats in to the same room, you can upset the balance of power currently held by the knitting circle of cigar smoking pensioners. Some people have nothing better to do than ruin the future of the country for their grand children.

    27. Re:How America has withered ... by berashith · · Score: 3

      The GP referred to these as distraction issues. Not calling them trivial distractions like hobbies, but issues used to distract. Notice how the mention of these issues quickly sidetracked the conversation. It works. These issues will not be resolved, because congress can throw them around to keep the masses busy believing that the two party system exists, and run around behind the scenes screwing over everyone for personal gain. Different definition of distraction.

    28. Re:How America has withered ... by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      They aren't "distractions", no. What he's saying is that they are things that will likely never be resolved. Because it's easy to take a stand on one side or another, and get a guaranteed following during an election. Politicians don't exist to fix problems, they exist to get re-elected, and the easiest way to do that is to have a couple hot buttons to press on publicly. Hell, Coneheads was released 20 years ago, and that whole movie was about capturing and deporting illegal aliens. Things don't really seem to have changed much since.

    29. Re:How America has withered ... by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      Shut the hell up about your hyperbole. "Let's all be reasonable" is EXACTLY why they get away with shit like this. YOU are the reason america is broken.

      (sigh) no, when you engage in hyperbole, it's just masturbation. It feels good to you and looks disgusting to everyone else. You're never going to convince enough people to make a change with "They're not allowing us to unlock our phones. NAZIS!" It's not a good way to convince people of anything. If America is broken, it's because of people like you who make incoherent hyperbole like that.

    30. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do tell how your assault rifle with extended magazine will help you bring down a drone bringing you laser-guided happiness from above?

      It might, it might not. However, that rifle will put a hard, cold stop to the people running that drone at the control center.

      The big advantage to drones in Afghanistan is that they are controlled from a place so remote (the US), that even getting there to stop it is practically impossible for the Taliban army, let alone a single solder. It isn't so remote if those drones are being run from an uplink station sited at the next town/state over.

    31. Re:How America has withered ... by sandysnowbeard · · Score: 1

      No matter what ATT says, they almost never provide the unlock codes for phones once the contract has expired. Go ahead, and try, see what happens.

      Ok, I'll bite. I just did this the past week. I have 2 AT&T smartphones. One is under contract, one isn't. I called asking them to unlock both of them, and they gave me unlock codes without hesitation. So no, in my anecdotal experience, this isn't the case. In my experience, AT&T is happy to unlock your phone if you just ask politely, EVEN IF IT IS STILL UNDER CONTRACT.

      I tried this six days ago, my phone still under contract, and was denied.

      Also, this is relevant to me because I'm travelling to Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam in two weeks, where being able to buy a local SIM card would be awesome. Fortunately I have an older jailbroken and unlocked iPhone, as well as an unlocked Nexus S, but still.....

    32. Re:How America has withered ... by OldeTimeGeek · · Score: 1

      If you really, honestly, truly think that the unwashed masses had better access to their representatives in an any era, you aren't quite as old as you state.

      Congress has NEVER been afraid of its constituents - largely because voters had no real idea of how laws were made. They had the idealized Civics class version which made it sound like everybody was in agreement all of the time - just one big happy family there on Capitol Hill. Disagreements? Never discussed. How money was spread about between states to ease passage of controversial bills? Not a word. People were completely isolated from it and happy to be so. Honestly, do you really think that there would have been a Moon program if the discussion was available outside of Congress? Would the Civil Rights Act have been passed if the details of how Lyndon Johnson made each Congressmen an "offer they couldn't refuse" was on the daily news? If you want to look even earlier, the graft behind the creation of Transcontinental Railroad makes Enron look like rolling a kid for their lunch money. Did the public know about that? Even if they did, do you think that they would have cared?

      Between blogs, traditional media and social media, people today have an unprecedented level of information about what goes on in Congress and what their Congresspeople do. America hasn't withered - life is more complex than any time in our history and rather than discussing it, we've chosen to hide from it. People have always chosen what they do with their franchise - we now choose to sit back and whine.

    33. Re:How America has withered ... by isilrion · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, because immigration reform and equal rights for homosexuals are stupid, trivial issues that are a waste of time that common men shouldn't be bothered with or care about. *sigh*

      No, those are not stupid. What is stupid is to spend time on them, get the people excited, and actually argue about it. Specially homosexual rights (I'm not USAian, so I don't even know what immigration reform is all about). I have yet to see an argument against homosexual rights,yet it is argued, when there is no data to support the opossing position. (No, "I don't wanna" is not an argument. An argument is "this is how this group of people will be harm by they having the same rights as I have", preferably with a study supporting that the harm is real). I'm sure there are plenty of topics that are not or cannot be scientifically settled - those are the ones they should spend their times on.

    34. Re:How America has withered ... by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      I dont think you understand that the military would splinter in a Civil War. Its not a simple matter of 'well the government has overwhelming force, i guess we are all slaves.' If you order US troops fire on American civilians, you have a bloody revolution on your hands, and the military will split along faction lines. Make no mistake, if those 300 millon guns werent out there, we would be boiled alot faster.

      --
      Good-bye
    35. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's _if_ there is a Civil War. Hitler and Mussolini took over without one, as far as I can recall.

    36. Re:How America has withered ... by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      Sure. And what should their recourse be if you break that contract? $500,000 fine and five years in prison?

    37. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice how you just proved his point!

    38. Re:How America has withered ... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Distract the masses with things like immigration reform, gay rights, abortion, things that get people excited

      IE, things that are a lot more important than whether you can use the phone that AT&T is paying for on Sprint's network?
      Immigration reform, gay rights, abortion.. you seriously think those are "distraction issues?" I think you need to get a bit more perspective.

    39. Re:How America has withered ... by N0Man74 · · Score: 1

      "Ability to unlock your phone" isn't critical to what I'd call "freedom."

      Maybe you are right. However, the real problem is that the public feels this way about an increasing number of things.

      Most people have been convinced that excessive punishments for hacking or file sharing aren't something worth worrying about. Most people have simply accepted the fact that in order to use software, that they have to "accept" long complex contracts that they don't have the time to read. Most people don't see the fights over copyright and patents as something important enough to take a stand on. Most people have been convinced that being violated and giving up your freedom and way of life at the airport is a small price to pay to protect you from terrorists that want to destroy your freedom and way of life. Most people don't think it is worth making a fuss over warrantless communication monitoring, if it protects America from terrorists, drug dealers, and sexual offenders.

      Perhaps one could say that none of these things are critical. Perhaps they'd be right... but they add up.

      Then again, maybe every freedom is critical, and we've lost sight of that.

    40. Re:How America has withered ... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      They distract because honestly, they are far more important than whether you can unlock a specific phone model that you want to use. They're distraction because most people just don't care and it's difficult to convince them that anyone really -would- care about something that, in the grand scheme of all the problems we have today, is so trivial.

    41. Re:How America has withered ... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      That's _if_ there is a Civil War. Hitler and Mussolini took over without one, as far as I can recall.

      Now is not then. We live in an entirely different world now.

    42. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True that. It's not 1812 and not 1865 anymore. As long as there's TV and chips, people won't march out with guns together to demand secession and won't march out with guns to prevent it. They might click on "Sign petition" button, if it's not too bothersome, and then they'll come back to the screen and watch how another terrorist cell (made of too vocal gun owners) gets discovered and prosecuted.

      As I said in another comment, there won't be right time to grab those guns. Draw first - and you're the terrorist, draw last - and you're already dead. Guns won't prevent erosion of liberties, and if it'll really slide down to full blown dictatorship, they won't stop it. Fight with words and political action, and keep guns for self-defense.

    43. Re:How America has withered ... by HiThere · · Score: 1

      It may be both boring and evil, but that doesn't mean it isn't what's happening.

      Personally, I don't believe that it's a consicously chosen plan, but one that has evolved in the system, with individual legislators merely acting on their own perceived self-interest. But I also think it's an accurate description. (At least if you extend the explanation as the original poster has done above. There are reasonable interpretations of the original statement that are narrow-minded and viscious, but when he extended his statement it was made clear that those weren't the interpretations that he intended.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    44. Re:How America has withered ... by HiThere · · Score: 1

      His point was that they can be resolved based around evidence. (He may be wrong, but that was his point.) And that they intentionally aren't resolved because nobody powerful wants to resolve them. (Or, perhaps, that not enough powerful people want to resolve them.)

      E.g., a claim that recognizing homosexual marriage would weaken heterosexual marriage is possible to resolve though evidence. The claim is that not only it isn't done, but that it is intentionally not done.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    45. Re:How America has withered ... by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Ummm...the Torries were not chased out. The British army was. Large portions withdrew into Canada. (More than once IIRC.) For that matter, when Cornwallis surrendered, his army did not become prisoners, they left. Chased out seems a reasonable description. I believe that considerably more revolutionaries were killed than British soldiers. Esp. if you consider deaths due to disease caused by overexposure and malnutrition.

      OTOH, please note that North America was a side-show to Britain. And the side that became the US was propped up by the French, who were also contesting with Britain in Europe.

      N.B.: During the Revolutionary War the populace of the area was about 1/3 loyal to the crown, 1/3 favoring the revolutionaries, and 1/3 wishing to avoid the matter. (Actually, that last number is probably a considerable underestimat, and some people were in more than one camp.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    46. Re:How America has withered ... by flyneye · · Score: 1

      Being far more guns than drones or government officials, I don't believe either is a real problem.
      You couldn't keep drones busy enough making war on the people of the several states to keep them from displaying the heads of government on the wall alongside deer, moose or antelope.
      Then of course try to get the military, let alone the modern military to act en- force on the people that make up their communities and families.
      You're dreaming.

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    47. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so jail time and a huge fine to unlock a phone, penalties which are enforced BY THE GOVERNMENT, don't have anything to do with freedom ?

      really. what exactly does the federal government have to make illegal and establish completely out-of-proportion penalties for before you think it's critical to freedom.

      if you they could put you in jail for 50 years for downloading magazines, do you think that would be a blow to freedom ?

      when the government starts enacting ridiculous penalties for minor offenses, it has a hell of a lot to do with freedom.

    48. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and I think you need to get a fucking clue.

      people like you are being played by a violin. Dumb as rocks.

    49. Re:How America has withered ... by CaptainLard · · Score: 2

      Your entire post is a tautology.

      I can't figure out how that's supposed to invalidate or insult me (or if its even true) but thanks for modding me back down. Isn't the freedom we still have great? ;) But seriously, you are correct. Living without a smartphone does not help make it legal to unlock a smart phone, it just avoids the problem...unless, it makes you more apt to write letters to your congresspeople. I remember reading letters have the biggest impact...however small that may be...since a letter counts for something like 50 phone calls and phone calls count for 100 emails...or something. Or you could donate the money you save on a dataplan to that congress person and really get their attention. Which kinda brings me back to my original gripe: there is so much sensationalism in posts here. America has it's shitty corporations that I hate as much as the next person but its not like China or Russia where political prisons are a huge problem or the middle east where women can't leave the house. Overall I think I have it pretty good here but I can't speak for you all. There are plenty of posts to the effect of "corporations own congress" (probably true) and when someone says "vote" they get a response of "your vote doesn't count, see above". So what to do aside from continue the circlejerk? Feel free to suggest something because all I can come up with is stop reading or...Rant of course! Thanks for the discourse. /rant

    50. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In 2010's America welcomes Brave New World

      A society based on consumerism, such as the World State, needs citizens who want new things. Newness is thus more important than intrinsic value, and high art must be suppressed to make room for the new. In the second place, the citizens of the World State would not be able to understand Shakespeare, because the stories he writes are based on experiences and passions that do not exist in the World State. Grand struggles and overpowering emotions have been sacrificed in favor of social stability. They have been replaced by what Mond calls “happiness,” by which he means the infantile gratification of appetites.

    51. Re:How America has withered ... by plibnik · · Score: 1

      Iraquis? Serbs? er... Vietnamese? own schoolchildren?

    52. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I don't even know what immigration reform is all about
      Some want the US to expel and keep out people from Latin America (immigrants from elsewhere are ok) because they are hardworking and industrious. On the other hand, the Latin Americans here want amnesty because they get tired of sneaking across the border every day just to use their gym membership.

    53. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "No, those are not stupid" "(I'm not USAian, so I don't even know what immigration reform is all about)"

      Oh yes, you are just loaded up with credibility now huh?

      You fucking morons, do you think conservatives in the US sit around all day complaining to each other about Homos?

      We want individual liberties for all citizens protected, we wand sound and prudent government, reduced spending, strong defense, lower taxes and free market economic principles. A government that follows the constitution like it is supposed to - for all men, women, fags and straight does not matter.

      You dumb shit. when the REAL fiscal cliff happens you are free to come back and tell me what issues are and are not stupid, homo rights will be issue 500. No one gives a shit about this; we care about abusive tyrannical statism and erosion of our constitutional protections.

      Now kindly fuck off, come back when you can speak intelligently about something not "Boy ABC is great, of course I don't know anything about ABC but WHO CARES, Obama told me to vote Democrat! So that's what I will do."

      Come on all you hippies, repeat after me, Baaaaa, Baaaaa, Baaaaaa.

    54. Re:How America has withered ... by Paul+server+guy · · Score: 1

      Can someone please change the wording of the American national anthem ?

      The one about "Land of the Free", "Home of the Brave", in more ways than one, no longer apply.

      the Land of the Free-loaders and Home of the Slaves...

      --
      Your Moon, Your Mission, Get involved! http://www.openluna.org
    55. Re:How America has withered ... by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

      Somehow my "locked" phone makes and receives calls, runs various applications, plays music, and lets me show photos to people. I am soooo fettered.

    56. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So agree. On every level. No longer do we believe "Give me liberty or give me death" instead we believe "Say you will guarantee my life, and take my guns, take my privacy, take my money and land, just say you'll spare me."

    57. Re:How America has withered ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not just go back to living in the year 1984. If people and society are not allowed to progress are you truly free?

  30. I'm all right. by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    If you buy phones off ebay and craigslist that somebody got for $99 on contract, then defaulted on the contract and sold it, you're basically buying stolen goods. So good luck with that.

    Not even close. Clearly you have never lived hand to mouth, where debt is only an illness; downsizing; unexpected emergency...or simply living. I feel pity for your lack of empathy.

    Your credit rating is going to take a massive hit which affect all aspects of Life; You have to move to alternative and more expensive solutions (PAYG). Here is the exciting part...you now cannot use your number, but you still have to pay for it. The debt is *sold* to thugs who are *guarded* by the police, who take items of equal selling value from your property.

    Ironically in context of this discussion that $99 might have have helped keep the wolves from the door.

    1. Re:I'm all right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Never lived hand to mouth? I'm doing so right now. I have no credit rating. For 15+ years now I don't even have a bank account. But I OWN my phone (SGS2, which I struggled hard to buy, at $700), and my payg plan ($20/mo) gives me all the 3G I need and calls to any network at $0.035/minute. I'm currently living in a 3rd world country on around $200/month, and I'm a heck of a lot less stressed than when I had $15k a month to play with.

      So you're right - I have zero empathy for people who pay $99 for their phone then bitch about it being locked. Most Americans I've ever met have absolutely no clue how badly they're being screwed - and my lack of empathy is because I put that down as much to the consumers as the providers. Having lived extensively in Europe, Africa and Asia I can say with some confidence your 'problem' with your telcos is uniquely American and pretty much self-inflicted. If the consumers of America demanded decent payg plans, as are available pretty much anywhere else in the world, watch how fast the telcos would respond. But as long as people are happy to sign 3 year contracts and pay stupid rates it's not going to happen.

  31. Somebody done goofed and nobody caught it by BuypolarBear · · Score: 1

    The petition didn't have 57,000 signatures, it needed 57,000 more signatures. As of right now it needs 54,629 more signatures.

  32. I'll just buy unlocked phones by erroneus · · Score: 1

    That was my plan long before this anyway.

    The push by the carriers to make this happen is late it coming and might have helped, but the cat is out of the bag already.

    When it comes to hand-held computing devices with telephone capability, I care that the device is up-to-date with software and in my control so that I can do what I want and what I need and that it doesn't act against me. Carrier controlled, locked devices suffer from a lack of those things.

    Initially, I was going to get a Samsung phone, but then Nexus 4 came out. Got that. I'll be buying my way out of my expensive contract soon and will go pre-paid. Suddenly, I will be in control of my phone and my phone service and spending less money on top of that.

    Even if the law was reversed, it wouldn't make much difference. Phones are not easily supported by the community and carrier-devices aren't well supported by carriers. So anything other than a manufacturer supported device will not do.

  33. What you can do about it? Simple! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can get the hell out of that country and take your money and business with you!

    1. Re:What you can do about it? Simple! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously? And go where? You do realize that people are not just free to roam the earth and go live in any country they please, right? Do you have even the slightest clue about immigration and how difficult it actually is to get into any country worth moving to?

      Either you are a fucking retard, or a fucking jackass. Either way, STFU!

  34. I love it, I really love it. by Tanuki64 · · Score: 0

    I hate the USA. And I am always extremely happy, when they manage to shoot themselves in the foot. The 'We the people' petition was introduced, which certainly was a nice thing to do. You needed 25000 votes to be heard. What happens? One of the first things idiotic Americans petition is to build a death star. As a direct result sensible petitions like changing this stupid unlocking law new need 100000 votes. Well done, Americans. I hope you don't get all the necessary votes. Thank your brain dead Star Wars fans.

    1. Re:I love it, I really love it. by will_die · · Score: 2

      The death star was after a couple of years, I believe the first petition was to legalize various recreational drugs.

    2. Re:I love it, I really love it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hate the USA. And I am always extremely happy, when they manage to shoot themselves in the foot. The 'We the people' petition was introduced, which certainly was a nice thing to do. You needed 25000 votes to be heard. What happens? One of the first things idiotic Americans petition is to build a death star. As a direct result sensible petitions like changing this stupid unlocking law new need 100000 votes. Well done, Americans. I hope you don't get all the necessary votes. Thank your brain dead Star Wars fans.

      Hey you. Yeah, you, member of (every country who has done stupid shit to its citizens too because they allowed it). Might want to put down the stone and step gently back into your glass house now...before I inform the Queen...

    3. Re:I love it, I really love it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "build a Death Star" petition was a satirical response to the other, more serious petitions that were given a lame, generic PR response such as the petition to legalize marijuana and the petition to abolish the TSA. Furthermore, as another poster pointed out, the irony is that the Death Star petition got a much more well thought-out response than any serious petition.

      That being said, every person in the USA who votes Republican or Democrat over and over again and buys into the rhetoric that voting Libertarian or Green is a "wasted" vote is responsible for the present situation.

    4. Re:I love it, I really love it. by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      I hate the USA.

      Then you are, frankly, an idiot. Whay to you hate? The people? All 300 million (way to generalise there)? Or, the widlife? The landscape? The internet? The tv and films? Or is it the government you hate (like many Americans)? Is your government much or indeed any better?

      One of the first things idiotic Americans petition is to build a death star.

      I love it when ignorant haters shoot themselves in the foot. The first thing that happened is a bunch of sensible petitions on serious subjects went up, like drugs, the TSA and so on. Like so many things involved with politicians, it put itself in disrepute as the petitions were ignored or whitewahsed.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    5. Re:I love it, I really love it. by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      Thank your brain dead Star Wars fans.

      Well, the Star Trek fans tried to start one to build a real USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-E spec), but JJ Abrams jumped ship to Star Wars before we could organize a petition drive.

      --
      That is all.
  35. Disobey it by TheGoodNamesWereGone · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I plan to just disobey it.

    1. Re:Disobey it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And best of all, there's no risk. When you wake up in the morning and go about your business, there's a good chance you're already committing several felonies per day without even realizing it. That's the beauty of this absurd government. At some point, everybody's a criminal so there's no disincentive to commit a crime. In fact, once you're a criminal the incentive is actually to maximize profit whether it's a crime or not, since the risk of jail and/or fines is pretty much the same.

  36. Who is subsidising who? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It seems now they have made the cell phone companies problem the government's problem. Enforcing this new law is surely going to cost the gove money - and save the cell phone company's money. Since the government has no money except what it take from taxpayers, guess who is subsiding who.

    Maybe they just should stop subsidies all together and cut the inefficient scheme.

  37. Buy an unlocked phone? by PortaDiFerro · · Score: 1

    Isn't it possible to buy an unlocked phone to begin with, if that is what you want?

  38. Wrong battle by paiute · · Score: 1

    The fight should be to make any and all contract violations noncriminal.

    --
    If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
    1. Re:Wrong battle by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      A large portion of fraud cases are based on contract violations. Now, stop making suggestions without knowing about the subject.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    2. Re:Wrong battle by paiute · · Score: 1

      A large portion of fraud cases are based on contract violations. Now, stop making suggestions without knowing about the subject.

      You know what I meant, but thanks for the helpful addition of your insight tweaking and adding to my broad suggestion.

      No wonder you have a mod stalker.

      --
      If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
    3. Re:Wrong battle by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      No, I don't know what you mean. I just know what you said and what you said indicates a lack of knowledge about the law.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  39. Require that the carriers provide itemization by nbahi15 · · Score: 1

    What you need is a requirement to list the phone bill separately from the phone.

    February Service Plan XXL - $80
    Phone payment - $20
    Total: - $100

    Amount of time remaining on contract - 5 months
    Payoff amount for phone - $100

    After the phone is paid off the monthly bill would then drop to $80 and no contract. The phone itself should then be unlocked at the completion of the payment plan.

  40. People: you don't own the phone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While I agree completely that a vendor (I'm looking at you Sony) should not be able to dictate what you do with something once you own it, you don't actually own a subsidized cell phone until the contract is paid out.

    Let's be honest. Nobody really thinks they are getting a $600 phone for $200 do they? Surely everyone with a $600 phone that they've only paid $200 (out of pocket) for realizes that the other (more than, even) $400 is a "loan" from the vendor for which they are making monthly payments for, not at all unlike the mortgage you took out on your home and the car you bought on time. I think everyone understands in those cases that the bank owns those until you pay off the loan.

    Why is it so difficult to understand that your subsidized phone is owned by your carrier until you've paid out the contract?

    Want your phone unlocked? Then man up, pay for it in full, up front, and stop whining.

  41. It's darkly amusing... by qeveren · · Score: 2

    How the carriers could've just, oh I dunno, raised their early termination fees. But instead, they get their pet lawmakers to effectively make contract violation a Federal felony. Something tells me this isn't about loss of contract profits.

    --
    Don't just stand there, get that other dog!
  42. This doesn't really effect anyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you don't care about having a new phone, buy an old, unlocked one. If you want a new phone, get a carrier subsidized phone. In one to two years, do you know what you can do? Get another carrier subsidized one for the same price. Seriously, who does this effect? I guess people that get a carrier subsidized phone then change plans every 6 months. You know, the same people the carrier actually is losing money on. Do you see why they don't want their customers to do that?

  43. Petitions are worse than worthless. by OldSport · · Score: 1

    The petitions are *insidious*. They divert people away from doing what really matters and helps -- writing your elected representatives (and for that matter, staying on top of legislation enough to know what your representatives are getting up to) -- and refocus it onto something that will have no practical policy effect whatsoever. So what if the White House responds -- what do you think "they" are going to say, "oh yeah, you're totally right, Mr. Obama is going to single-handedly kill this new law right now"? It's going to be some cookie-cutter response about how important the voice of the American people is, blah blah blah, and then right back to business as usual. Fuck me, posting a rant on Facebook has more potential to effect political change than those petitions.

    The problem is that people either don't care about what our lawmakers are doing in Washington, or they do care but are too busy working two jobs to try to make ends meet, or are too distracted by the infotainment industry telling them about everything *except* what matters. The only time people really mobilize is when something they really, really hold dear is threatened (a la SOPA, when people thought the government was going to take away their Internets) and there is actually enough media coverage that a critical mass of people know about it.

  44. The perfect crime by TheRealHocusLocus · · Score: 1

    Unlock your phone... then destroy it.
    I'm so clever I amuse even myself.

    --
    <blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
  45. Not a problem for me. by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

    I don't have a contract and buy my phones at full price. I can unlock them whenever I wish. And, because I am with T-Mobile, I can simply call and they will send me the unlock code and instructions.via email.

    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  46. What you can easily do is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not buy locked phones. Take your business to providers that don't have factory locks. Vote with your wallet (which is why I bougth a verizon unlocked phone and brought it to Europe)

    1. Re:What you can easily do is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, just ask your carrier to unlock it, and they will (since the FCC requires them to).

  47. Anyone needs an iPhone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Drop me an email and send me money and I get you a factory unlocked phone from Germany. schreiber.in.berlin at gmail dot com.

  48. Online petitions are worthless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Online petitions are worthless

  49. Petitions by BitZtream · · Score: 1

    When are you morons going to realize that these online petitions are worse than meaningless?

    Why do you think your signature means anything. You aren't going to vote differently, its obvious from the last couple of elections that people bitch about politicians and then do nothing to effect change. There is no reason for anyone to give a flying fuck what signature your petition is on. Worse still is you're not bright enough to realize how easy it is to fake said petitions, making them even less useful.

    There is no effort in collecting online petitions, you just put a form up one SOMEONE ELSES website. Starting a petition this way, and 'running it' requires zero effort and thats exactly the kind of response you'll get.

    Signing a petition ... ESPECIALLY AN ONLINE PETITION FROM THE COMFORT OF YOUR CHAIR just shows exactly how little you care about the issue.

    You aren't going to get more back out of it than you put in, thats not the way the universe works.

    If you want to effect change, its going to take a whole hell of a lot more than clicking 'I agree' on some retarded website.

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  50. End around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do what I did. Pay $175 for an unlocked phone from China and get a SIM from Straight talk. If they can ship jobs overseas and bring the goods back, why can't I cut out the middleman?

  51. Not capitalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Capitalism requires the absence of government interference in the market, not the presence of it. Whether or not corporations benefit financially from that interference is irrelevant. What defines capitalism is the lack of interference (i.e. coercion) in free market economics.

    On the upside, you'd make a good politician.

  52. Don't copy that floppy! Steal it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is the punishment for stealing a phone?
    Don't even have to be armed and storm in, just shop lift.

  53. Or... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You could just unlock your phone anyway. Who is going to police that?

    $500 000 fine? Good luck getting any money.

  54. Reality of your proposal by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 1

    1) I understand your argument, but I sure wouldn't want to be the one rolling the dice in a US court to see if a court would find it legal or not. Lots of developed countries have the idea that their laws apply everywhere in the world.
    2) I have an unlocked phone (I bought it unlocked some years ago) but the fact is that most Americans .... JUST ... DON'T ... CARE. Most Americans don't travel outside of North America, so there's just not a lot of interest in unlocked phones. Some Americans do care a lot, but most don't. In fact, my unlocked phone is powered off and in storage. My main mobile phone (or "cell phone" as we Americans say) is an iPhone and my work requires it to be unjailbroken, so I can't unlock it. They pay the bills for it, so I have to live by their rules. The next time I travel overseas, I'll just take my unlocked phone with me. I doubt that putting unlocking businesses right across the border would be very lucrative. I'm not sure about this, but I'm under the impression that the Canadian market is pretty much just like the American one and subsidized locked phones are the way everybody goes.

  55. just shows how selfish we all are by cenerentolo · · Score: 1

    it has taken how long for 50k signatures? closing in on 3 weeks to get 50k signatures for aaron schwartz https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/remove-united-states-district-attorney-carmen-ortiz-office-overreach-case-aaron-swartz/RQNrG1Ck

  56. Luck and hard work by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

    Nearly everybody needs at least some degree of both luck and hard work to succeed. It's easy to point to folks who show little evidence of hard work, but there are certainly counterexamples -- I'd say Ping Fu is one.

  57. Re:Chromebook too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    MS Surface is expensive and not that interesting to jailbreak. The cheap Google Chromebooks are much more likely to be a target because they too lock down the BIOS making changes difficult. Ubuntu can be installed already, but It won't run Windows unless you run it in Virtualbox on Ubuntu.

    http://www.extremetech.com/computing/132300-unleash-your-chromebox-how-to-dual-boot-ubuntu-linux-on-your-chrome-os-device

    I'm thinking of picking up a Chromebook to dual boot.

  58. Civil disobedience by l00sr · · Score: 1

    Better yet: why not organize a good, old-fashioned act of civil disobedience? I'm thinking along the lines of several thousand people meeting up outside the Lincoln Memorial and simultaneously unlocking their phones.

  59. Get a clue. by westlake · · Score: 1

    Distract the masses with things like immigration reform, gay rights, abortion, things that get people excited. Then while everyone is screaming about those things, pass laws that screw over the common person.

    Does the geek ever listen to what he is saying?

    Each of the issues mentioned here have a profound intimacy and significance, They represent the driving - primal - forces currently at work in American law and politics.

    His pet political causes sink to the bottom of the Mariana Trench because, quite frankly, my dear, no one gives a damn.

  60. I love it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Producers invest a lot of money developing products consumers want. They have every right to protect their investment: including (but not limited to) licensing the firmware on a physical device.

    As a software engineer and entrepreneur, I am happy to see laws that protect producers.

    If you don't like it:
    -There's nothing stopping you from developing your own product that does not contain these restrictions.
    -[Now], there is nothing stopping you from purchasing the "unlocked" device.
    -There's nothing requiring you purchase or use the device at all.

  61. What can you do? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, for starters don't 'lease' your phone. Then its yours do do as you please. if you cant afford the 400+ outright, then you get a subsidized ( leased ) phone and comply with contract until its paid off. Once its paid off, its once again, yours to do as you please.

    This entire 'debate' is quite simple: You don't own the phone until its paid off.. You cant screw with stuff that isn't yours.

    ( now i disagree with it being a crime, but a TOS violation and instant termination and a fee, sure .. )

  62. Why petition the White House? by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

    The White House doesn't make law, and does not control the Library of Congress.

    Petition Congress, not the White House.

  63. who cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Basically just ignore the damn law like the goofy ass warning on dvds and do it anyway.

  64. "Ablility to unlock someone elses phone" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is the correct phrase. While its under subsidy contract, its not yours...

  65. These laws are just nuts... by jonr · · Score: 1

    "Yeah, we need some way of milking our customers, so if you could write a law for us to do so, that would be great..:"

  66. Agreed by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

    The phones are fine out of the box. What critical benefits do people get from unlocking them except to steal from the app store?

    1. Re:Agreed by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      That's not what unlocking is for. You're thinking of jailbreaking for iphones. Which, most people don't use jailbreaking to pirate apps either. Unlocking just means you can use the phone on a different network.

  67. Lease-to-Own vs Owning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are confusing equipment that is bought and equipment that is leased-to-own for a 2 year period.

    Until the 2 year lease is complete, YOU DO NOT OWN THE PHONE.

    OTOH, if you buy your phone outright, then you cannot be forced into not changing anything on it. For example, Google sells a personal tracking device called the Nexus 4. This device is not locked to any provider, just drop a SIM into it from the provider you like. Don't like that provider, switch, as you like.

    Simple.

  68. Unlocking doesn't end your contract though,so wtf? by yakumo.unr · · Score: 1

    If you unlock your phone that gives you freedom to use another network.
    But it doesn't magically remove you from the contract you agreed to, so you still have to pay, and would be chased by whatever debt collection system they use.

    You obviously would still have to pay for using the new carrier also if you swapped SIM.

    Skipping the early termination fee may save you a big one off payment but doesn't negate the above.

    This issues should solely be if you fail to pay your contracted fee's, and I fail to see why that should have anything other than normal contract law cover it.

  69. Wait... by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    The carriers are arguing they need to lock the phones to their network to get a commitment from a customer. Don't they have fixed term contracts with early termination fees for that?

  70. Holy cynical batman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In other words, if you want to get rich, forget working and buy a lottery ticket. It's much easier, less risky and more likely.

    Agreed! Please don't try to start your own thing (and possibly be my competition). Instead, give in to your cynicism and start buying lottery tickets. Of course, you will need money to buy said tickets so we'll see you at work on Monday.

    Sincerely,
    Business Owners

  71. Shackled Americans still dreaming. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How long until Americans finally get it : they live in Land of the shackled, not the free...

  72. LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple has even more onerous network locks on their phones (say nothing of their software locks) so I'm not sure why you brought up them as an example. Then I did see your posts in the other story cheering Apple for their trademarks on the store layouts so maybe that's where you're coming from.

  73. Done but it wont matter only money does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Our country is run on how much you are willing to pay all others need not apply.
    It really is as simple as that.

  74. I didn't start the fire by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Douchebag motherfuckers like you would rather see the country burn than doing anything to help just because you were wrong.

    I'd really rather not see the country burn at all, what with me living here at all. But since the country as a whole voted for fire, what more can I do than attempt to shield myself and watch people get the very burning they so longed for? I mean, what are YOU going to do - sign a petition?? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

    Children don't really learn a thing sometimes unless they are hurt by it. So I guess it goes with the electorate. I have no desire to stop a lesson in progress as we'll all be better off in the future for it.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  75. Taco Cowboy Confirms- America is Dying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered American citizenry when some guy on a soapbox confirmed that freedom market share has dropped yet again, now advocated by less than a fraction of 1 percent of all the people he meets. Coming close on the heels of a recent editorial on Fox News which plainly stated haven't you shot yourselves yet good lord. Taco Cowboy added that he will be loading his shotgun and generator into his truck and, quote, "headin' fer the mesa", last visited 13 years ago by people fleeing the Y2K disaster in response to similar claims.

  76. CELL PHONE UNLOCKING ILLEGAL??!! SIGN OUR PETITION by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you own a cell phone you will want to sign this petition. See my fb page for more information. Like and share my post. We need to get everyone involved and make cell phone unlocking legal once and for all. It's not fair hundreds of people are going out of business, many employees are being laid off and thousands of people won't be able to unlock their phones. See details here.

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Inspired-Living-App-ILA-app/191597394319804

    Direct Petition Link
    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/make-unlocking-cell-phones-legal/1g9KhZG7

  77. Bu hu hu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lamenting about cell phones. If you do not like locked cell phones, buy them unlocked. Saves you money in the end.
    If you do buy a subsidised phone, oh well live with it. In the end it is the providers phone, until you pay for it. YOU are the one that signed the contract, nobody forced you to do it.
    Instead of complaining about locked cell phones, we should be complaining about the horrendous rates they charge for their phone rates. In other parts of the world people pay fractions of what we, in the US, are paying

  78. whats the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This country sux. abandon ship.

    -or ROM that phone into an Assult-phone

    lets outlaw everything fuck it

  79. Call for Revolution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think its time to get rid of the current Communist government we have and replace it with a true Government for the people and by the people and stop passing these ridiculous laws curtailing our freedoms. The USA or shall I say: UASR is heading into a dictatorship and this is one example. America is no longer free and we are not free either. I say lets get rid of the current regime and establish a People's government where corporations can't rule anymore over anyone.

    Unlocking a phone for use on a carrier? Our government really has gotten stupid!

  80. can they tell? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    can carriers really tell if you root/jailbreak your phone unless you walk into the retail store and show/tell them?