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Why It's So Hard To Predict How Caffeine Will Affect Your Body
carmendrahl writes "Emergency-room visits linked to caffeine-laden energy drinks are on the rise. This gives scientists who'd like to see caffeine regulated the jitters. But the U.S. Food and Drug Administration seems to be dragging its feet on regulating caffeine content in food and drink, because people have different sensitivities to it (abstract). Currently, caffeine-rich products like Monster Energy get around the rules because they're marketed as dietary supplements. 'Caffeine gets cleared from the body at different rates because of genetic variations, gender, and even whether a person is a smoker. For this reason, it’s difficult to set a safe limit of daily consumption on the compound. Physiological differences, as well as differences in the way people consume caffeine, have tied FDA in knots as it has debated how to regulate the substance. ... The toxic level in humans, about 10 g, is roughly the equivalent of imbibing 75 cups of brewed coffee (in 8-oz mugs) or 120 cans of Red Bull over a few hours. But that lethal limit can vary widely from person to person, experts say."
The same way all vice product consumption is curbed.
...caffeine will someday become a controlled substance after the prohibitionists finish up outlawing tobacco.
Drag away. What they should be measuring is the amount of caffeine that is going into the water table from urine. At that point, it's actually affecting someone else, second hand, and may actually be appropriate to regulate.
Gently reply
The part about caffeine that is dangerous is that, like other stimulants, it gives the impression of improved brain performance without really delivering it. A fatigued person propped up with caffeine still makes mistakes related to fatigue. The other effects like jitters and palpitations is probably harmful to the heart in the long term also but it's less of a hazard to others.
Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
A journal article from 2008. Thanks, Slashdot. Cutting edge stuff, really.
Mmm Coffee And Cigarettes.
Caffeine gets cleared from the body at different rates because of genetic variations, gender, and even whether a person is a smoker.
...Isn't that true for most substances?
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
No no no AC we're talking about caffeine here not taco bell. Get with the program!
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Makes me want to puke.
Although being a coffee addict myself I never tried a single can of "power" or "energy" drinks, just because the smell is so distinct, yuck!
Cougar Boost anybody? /American Dad
KERNEL PANIC -SIGFAULT AT ADDRESS #51A54D07
Some caffeine from Green Tea keeps me programming, driving, studying, etc. Red Bull makes me wound up and literally makes my heart skip a beat every now and then. Straight caffeine pills just knock me out and a few hours later make me angry. So needless to say I limit myself to occasional green teas. (Matcha!)
If my wife has a coffee after 6pm she will have trouble sleeping that night.
My brothers can't operate with much less than 5+ cups of strong coffee per day.
So needless to say within my reach are a pretty wide set of reactions to caffeine. The drug I would love to see studied even more is Chocolate.
Since I've become an adult with habitual patterns, I've been able to tangibly gauge the effects of caffeine on my mind and I'm not entirely sure that young people, what with all the other natural chemicals raging through their body, are able to do the same.
I'm a person that's tangibly sensitive to the effects of caffeine. For me, a single morning cup of coffee can immediately waken me to the point where I'd be if I naturally allowed myself that one hour transition from waking to working. However, a second cup of coffee within a 5 hour period will cause my mind to race faster than I can effectively communicate and I have 'the jitters'. Also, a large cup of Starbucks will literally make it impossible for me to work as I can't focus on my screen or conversations. And if I have a coffee after 3:00 PM? I can forget about sleeping before 2:00 AM.
What works best for me, what allows me to reach an effective plateau, is one cup of coffee in the morning and a cup of green tea (or yerba) in the afternoon - I'm always sharp, on the ball and I'm less distracted by whatever causes ADHD.
The toxic level in humans, about 10 g, is roughly the equivalent of imbibing 75 cups of brewed coffee (in 8-oz mugs) or 120 cans of Red Bull over a few hours.
According to the eminent Wikipedia, that's the LD50 (150 to 200 mg/kg).
If you gave an average group of humans 10g of caffeine, half of them would die.
Now LD50 is a way to measure of toxicity, but I think it's fair to assume that a substance is toxic well below the lethal dose.
that would measure the effect on the subject, rather than physiological measures.
Give the subject some simple tasks and ask him or her to solve the problem using Perl. Check back after two hours:
- less than 50 Perl LOC: not enough caffeine
- 50 - 500 Perl LOC: just enough caffeine
- more than 500 Perl LOC: too much caffeine
I can see the problems they are having with regulation. They got the important part at least with getting rid of alcoholic energy drinks. The Idiots mixing Alcohol and Energy drinks now have to do it on their own. Selling it at a store already mixed gives people a false sense of safety. Whoever thought of mixing a Red Bull or Coffee with alcohol was a moron. Things like Red Bull and Coffee have too little caffeine unless you're sensitive. I think their real issue should be with things like 5 hour energy where it's a 4 shots of coffee in a small container. 4 cups of coffee over the day probably wont kill you even if you're sensitive. But one shot of 5 hour energy is a different story if you're sensitive to it.
The FDA _should_ keep dragging its collective feet, because there are MANY more dangerous things that should be targeted first, alcohol being number one on that list. My guess is that the main reason there are so many people going to hospitals with caffeine-related symptoms is because this country is overloaded with obese people who have heart conditions. This is just another instance of natural selection.
Caffeine's deadly effects are already well-known, it's called "LD50", like many other substances that can be detrimental in huge quantities. Any guesses about if consuming that much caffeine with that much fluid actually can cause one to die? That's another argument.
Ephedra disappeared from the market because of negative press coverage of several stupid athletes who abused it. I doubt caffeine is in any real danger, it's even more prevalent than alcohol, because it doesn't stop a person from functioning as a person.
From the summary: "Caffeine gets cleared from the body at different rates because of genetic variations, gender, and even whether a person is a smoker."
- isn't this also true of alcohol? Any slashdot readers with a bit of medical knowledge help me understand the difference between how the body processes the two different substances?
Every drug affects every user individually, and to further confound things, the effects often vary in the individual user from one dose to the next. Alcohol, marijuana, Advil, and opiates are each subject to personal efficacy variables such as frequency of use, innate tolerance, mood, sleep patterns, amount of food ingested, and undoubtedly many more. This is the very thing that separates the thinking man from the drug abuser. I don't need to be told via a County burn ban not to burn trash when it hasn't rained in two months and everything in between the burn pile and my home is dry tinder. I don't need to be told what my optimal morning caffeine ingestion amount is.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
n/t
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Difference: Current US regulation: you must clearly state the amount of alcohol in any canned/bottled/whatever drink.
//TODO: signature
How can they regulate this? You can go to almost any grocery/goods store and buy a 33 ounch can of ground coffee. They would surely let you buy as many of these as you wish to. Since a bunch of stupid white kids drink monsters too fast they now need to pursue regulation of it? Really? I know, maybe they should pass a law stating that energy drinks cannot taste better than coffee so as to damper the enthusiam with which these drinks are imbibed. Dumb.
Caveat of my own stupidity: While in the dorms one weekend night I drank two pots of coffee in a relatively short span of time. What would that be? Maybe 2x 6x cups of coffee? So somewhere around 1200mg or so? Anyways my stomach hurt, my head kinda spun, and my legs twitched a little as I laid in bed wondering when I would fall asleep. I learned from that to take it easy.
"but money is the God of Algiers & Mahomet their prophet." - Rich. O'Bryen June 8th 1786
JUst put a warning label. "Caution: May cause death in high volumes. Drink at your own risk." And let people figure out for themselves where their toxicity level is.
And no, I'm not biased (drinking my fourth cup of coffee just for the afternoon).
Why doesn't the FDA do like any other governmental or lawmaking entity does and write the laws to the weakest denominator and make everybody else suffer?
There's nothing wrong with some whiskey or scotch in coffee.
There's everything wrong with stupid morons. Can we please just get rid of the warning labels and let them kill themselves off?
Such an unstable compound is allowed freely on the market, yet some completely harmless ones that are overdosed because they have been forced to street drug taking (and often mixing) are banned completely.
I'm glad that MDMA is finally getting looked at, AGAIN, for use in treatment of severe depression and stress.
The damn thing isn't bad in the slightest, what is bad is the doses given out by silly little chemistry dropouts or dealers mixed with fucking talcum powder or some other nonsense. I've seen so many descriptions of people taking E that are completely and factually incorrect to what MDMA actually does to you.
So many of them have been mixed with speed or other crap like that.
Note that I am not a person that even takes drugs like that for getting some high or whatever.
The best part about an energy drink is the taste, mainly, and pretty much all of them have the same damn tastes too.
And even then, I rarely have them as is, maybe twice every 1.5~months when I buy a couple bottles of Rockstar. (which actually does taste different in this case, and really damn good)
But even I can see how moronic the drug bans are. And worse is passive drugs are on the verge of being increased. Passive drugs should be outright BANNED.
Passive drugs do cause damage, and can even cause more damage to others in some cases. (simple example being smoking through a filter, then blowing anything away from you towards other people, they inhale a good chunk of that smoke that never went through a filter, bam, considerable more damage already, most will be breathed back out, but the damage was alreay done)
I'd be completely fine with people getting shitfaced on heroin out the ass, or that drug that rots bodies, kill yourself all you want, but weed? Hell no. Get out. Inject that crap in to your eyeballs all you want, but burning anything organic is carcinogenic and seriously damaging. That includes even burning food. (but that is for another argument)
Obviously nobody can regulate what happens in the walls of ones house very easily, but putting children at risk for one should be seriously punished. As much as a potentially psycho parent would be. Both will either hinder or kill the kid earlier than they should have been in the end. There is no stretching, just compression.
In the end, they cause far more damage to everything else which makes everyone else suffer indirectly. It IS bad, period. Opinions don't even matter.
In the case of Caffeine, it is a rare exception to the rule. Doses don't seem to have any easy relation to bodies to measure.
But it isn't passive so shouldn't be banned, just warned against. (like fatty foods, heavy salt, etc.)
Obviously deal with cases of HUGE doses in a single drink because that stuffs nasty even for those who are capable of taking it. (same deal with alcohol)
Oh this world sucks sometimes. It reminds me of a whiny 13 year old. That is where society is right now. A whiny emo 13 year old who cuts. It is embarrassing.
So inconsistent, wasteful, annoying and suicidal, don't forget over-entitled to everything.
Well, I envy you. I haven't felt any effect from coffee in ages (I literally cannot remember if it ever affected me) and I can easily go to sleep after a strong cup of coffee. I may have to try significantly higher dosages but I don't really like the idea. Having a substance as easily available as coffee actually keep you awake must be awesome...
I hope the hacker community has grown out of the old culture of everyone robotically drinking coffee and caffeinated sodas. Sometimes at workplace it's sad to see someone churning code and a huge pile of empty energy drink cans aside him. Like, is this some kind of tough profession through which you have to be constantly mildly drugged to cope. Slightly disgusting.
I'm not so sure regulate is even the right word. They might make a recommendation for maximum daily allowance, but unless they're going to make it a federally controlled substance (i.e. on par with cocaine), the FDA will in fact have no degree of control - or "regulation" if you will - over people's personal intake. Even alcoholic beverages are not "regulated" for quantity of consumption. They may charge a tax on it... they may make a test that measures how much is too much when operating a vehicle... but they can't regulate the amount that an individual consumes - over-consumption regularly lands people in the hospital or the morgue.
Safe (relative) caffeine intake, like alcohol, comes down to one knowing their own limits and self-regulating. Awareness is important, and the FDA could certainly have an impact on that. Personally, I have discovered in recent years that I actually have zero tolerance for caffeine after that last cup of coffee landed me in an urgent care facility. I can't even enjoy my favorite, Dr. Pepper any more because there is no caffeine-free variant of it. It wasn't remotely a matter of over doing it, it was simply an unusually high sensitivity to caffeine that developed over time. Occasionally I will try a decaf coffee or a Coke to see if the reaction is still there and I am quickly greeted with difficulty breathing.
Forget the caffeine. 75 Cups of plain water is toxic. Wiki-Water Poisoning
Yea, I've heard the same from friends, that they can sleep after a cup of coffee and I found that bizarre. I suppose these differing experiences lends credence to the linked article. My experience with caffeine has remained the same for as long as I can remember, at least since my mid 20's. Too much coffee has a visible effect on me.
In the future all restaurants are Taco Bell... oh dear god.....
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I see the fake programmers try and use coffee every day to code faster. What a bunch of noobs. Anyone that is a true pro already knows that Cocaine is the one true way to get that project done on time and with GENIUS level code.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
The same for me. I have a strong iced tea in the morning and then a coke at lunch. That keeps me going. Without them, I really don't do well mentally. This is down from 4 cokes, so I have really tried to cut it back to the minimum, but I just can't do less than that and still function.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
For Christs sakes just read the fucking studies. Almost everything about Caffeine is good... The ONLY long-term down side of caffeine is a suspected slight increase risk in ovarian and breast cancer. They of course have no proof of this, and it's only suspected because caffeine leads to the fluctuation of plasma sex hormones and SHBG in women. But there are no studies that have shown it actually leads to any sort of increase in cancer risk.
If you look at the collective research on caffeine it actually reduces the risk of developing some pretty major diseases across the board.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_caffeine
You should drink caffeine, it's good for you. If you're neurotic, anxiety ridden and prone to running to the hospital every time you get a hang nail, you probably shouldn't drink 10 redbulls and then start surfing WebMD. Which, I suspect, is the real source of these increases in hospital visits.
So, then, a GREAT first step would be to require companies to label how much caffeine is in their product, so we can have a relative scale.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
That put caffeine in all of their 'food'.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
I have never come close to the minimum lethal dose (injected) of 3.2 grams, but I have done as much as 1.2 grams in a 24 hour period. It's great for focusing on 1 project. A few jitters, but not horrible - compared to the time when I went cold turkey on sugar for 2 months and had a 44 ounce unnamed citrus soda. It was hell trying to play Duke Nukem.
I'm a bit aware that my ordering a pound of white powder and having it sent through the mail may raise some eyebrows, but they'll just have to find their own. It's MINE, all mine, I tell ya!
dreaded scurrilous bit-twiddler from Oklahoma
"The toxic level in humans, about 10 g, is roughly the equivalent of imbibing 75 cups of brewed coffee (in 8-oz mugs) or 120 cans of Red Bull over a few hours."
Is that 75 cups of US coffee or real coffee like we drink in the rest of the world?
Hmm. I have a Yuengling lager in my hand, made and consumed in the U.S., and there is no stated alcohol percent anywhere on it. Maybe it's on the case? Don't know.
They are both very different chemically. People who are sensitive to Caffeine might not be sensitive to alcohol. Caffeine was mostly a black box up until the last 5 years. It works by messing with a couple of hormones, Estrogen and something else that I can't remember along with who knows what else. It is a stimulant so it wires you up. Alcohol on the other hand works with different hormones, testosterone being one of them. It also impedes the brain as a depressant. Even though you see that they are similar, in that gender and genetic variations play a roll, the same variations may or may not play a roll. Ultimately the liver, and water levels in the body play a roll in expelling both of them, and you could have a mutation in the liver that helps or hinders ether process.
There is coffee out there that has as much naturally-occurring caffeine in it as many energy drinks. If you're going to start regulating caffeine content in any sort of drinks, then you have to do it for coffee as well. That is why it won't be done, and that's why it hasn't already been done: nobody is going to screw with coffee.
Leave energy drinks alone. The number of people having serious problems because of them aren't that many, and the ones who do are being excessively stupid about their consumption of them to start with.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Ephedra disappeared from the market because of negative press coverage of several stupid athletes who abused it.
Personally, I think that the War on Drugs had a lot more to do with that. Ephedra (and the active alkaloid, ephedrine) can be used as precursors for methamphetamine manufacture. The FDA yanked ephedra and ephedrine products about the same time that the DEA rammed through the laws requiring you to put your name into a federal database to buy a package of cold/allergy pills.
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About 6 years ago I worked at a place that had a bitchin' espresso machine. I became a sort of self-taught Barista and my coffee intake went up significantly... Then I changed jobs and lost access to the Espresso machine. I was drinking black tea during the day then.. Suddenly one day my heart started racing at 240bpm... It did so for about 15 minutes and then stopped. Saw a doctor and it happened several times but the doctor said they needed to catch it in progress. We never did catch it so doctor took me off Alcohol, Coffee and a proper diet.. I went a year without incident. So I added back Alcohol... A few months later, I added back Coffee and then within a couple months, I was out camping and had a serious bout of it. My heart beat at 240bpm for about 45 minutes before we decided to get me to a hospital which was a 1.5hr drive away... I walked into the hospital and my heart was still beating at 240bpm... They hooked me up and knew immediately that it was a Supra-Ventricular Tachy-Cardia... It can be caused by low electrolytes and in my case, caffeine... I still drink coffee but I limit myself to 3tbsp of grounds in the morning (in a french press, with boiling water)... I can cause an incident by drinking somewhat more than my daily allotment of coffee for a couple days in a row but if I stay within my established limit, then I stay incident free...
http://www.nature.com/news/2003/030120/full/news030113-10.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/11/111122112023.htm
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/07/120730-caffeinated-seas-pacific-northwest-caffeine-coffee-science/
http://researchmatters.noaa.gov/news/Pages/caffeine.aspx
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So limit containers to one serving and maybe we stop seeing people dying from this silly-ass bullshit. We can talk about the drug abuse culture at a later date.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Just an anecdote:
I once had (if I recall correctly) a Triple Dumbass (6 shots of espresso?), a chait tea, and an ENORMOUS (ten scoops of ice cream?) ice cream sundae at a place called Kaffeine in Evanston, IL. Life wasn't going so well, so a friend joined me and we chatted, somehow I thought it a good idea to ingest as much caffeine as possible.
I felt messed up after that in a way I've not felt since then (and that's saying something). Like I was going to have a seizure. Literal tremors, paranoia, like my brain was on fire.
I thought I might actually collapse.
-
I used to be able to sleep after drinking coffee, but now, maybe because I'm getting old, I have trouble falling asleep if I drink it after 5:00 pm.
You thought the protests against SOPA and PIPA were bad? Move against caffeine and they'll look like a walk in the park. It's not just geeks: pretty much every white collar profession (and more than a few blue collar ones) runs on caffeine. That includes lawyers and lobbyists. Just put the Federal Register down and back away slowly.
But I can't understand why they are shooting for Schedule 3. The law would seem to dictate Schedule 1 if they are really stupid enough to go down this road....
http://www.kptv.com/story/20662618/bill-proposed-in-oregon-would-make-cigarettes-prescription-only-drugs
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Too much coffee makes me fall asleep too.
I also have ADHD and stimulants have what they call a paradoxical effect with someone with true ADHD. Your brain can focus for once and you can put your brain to sleep. Your body might not be having much of it...its an horrible achy sleep, but I can sleep.
However, at about 8 shots in an ice coffee, it starts to turn around...I've learned this the hard way...
Only if it's blended scotch. There is definitely something wrong with putting good scotch in coffee. Or anything else for that matter.
it's what plants crave...
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I get 8g as 40 200mg tablets for $4.
I buy them because they're cheaper and more portable than energy drinks, not necessarily to avoid the other stuff in energy drinks, but avoiding that doesn't hurt.
Highly caffeinated soda is cheaper than energy drinks, but more expensive than tablets. I often drink diet soda for the taste and for when I want a smaller dose of caffeine.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
I often see beer containers without the alcohol content listed, although you can look up the alcohol content for that style. Soda and energy drink containers always list the caffeine content, even if it's fine print on the side.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Fuck Regulating Caffeine,
You want to see a change in the administration, try it?
I guarantee that every fucker in congress who doesn't vote to override that will get voted out of office, if they aren't recalled by their constituents first.
The problem with morons and alcohol is that they tend to add heavy machinery to the mix and get others around them killed.
Not a sentence!
Take it to the next level. cocaine only provides focus and clarity. You want to shoot for those creative solutions, and for that you need to open your mind. I recommend a bycicle-day level dose of LSD combined with mainlined meth. Note, that this virtually guarantees a trip that makes a "bad" trip seem like a weekend at playboy mansion. Actually it might be like a weekend at playboy mansion, but instead of a bunch of women wearing nothing, and an old man in a wheelchair, it will be the other way round, with spider goats ridden by undead carebears.
And if that won't let you meet schedule, i'm afraid you'll have to give up on chemicals and try vim.
Here's a great idea. Stop drinking it when your body tells you when you have had enough. Don't know how to listen to your body? Well congratulations, you are now wired. I guess you'll be needing a branch of government to tell you how much fucking coffee you should drink.
FUCK.
Caffeinated bacon? Baconated grapefruit? ADMIRAL Crunch?
Upward mobility is a slippery slope - the higher you climb the more you show your ass.
Perhaps the USA is more lax than other countries about labelling alcohol content / other ingredients? Depends from country to country. In the UK they are very strict: I think maybe something to do with the legal aspect of the public not being able to contest drunk driving charges "I didn't know how strong the beer was, if I had known I would have only drunk 2 not 12 of them, honest m'lud! I blame the beer company!".
Strict labelling has other positive aspects, I have friends who have to be gluten free, others who are peanut allergic and they are very grateful for required labelling of food products indicating whether or not the food products contain ingredients that might put them into hospital or not. Good to know that kind of thing before you take a taste of something.
For the love of god, do we really need a governmnet that is required to monitor how much Monster people are consuming and put a stop to it? Is this really a priority when you are twice as likely to die of murder in Chicago as you are in Afghanistan? How about we get the government to focus on adequately protecting people from murder before worrying about how much soda they drink.
Now, if you will excuse me, I have some bath salts to ingest so I can get back to my ritual satanic child abuse.
-- sudon't
Air-ride Equipped
Sugar is digested by live yeast cultures to make the dough rise. Yeast multiplies very fast as long as it has food so it's unlikely that any of that sugar remains in the final product.
try to find any kind of bread that doesnt list Cane Sugar
Regulation is required on the part of the consumer not the supplier. I personally drink 2 18oz Monster Imports(184mgx2) & a full bottle of redline Xtreme(316mg) everyday. I dont get jitters, It doesn't particularly wake me up, it's just my routine. I've read numerous stories about how people who drink a bottle of redline, which does warn only to drink half a bottle in several places,& end up in the hospital. I'm a perfectly healthy, functioning adult who knows how much my body can handle & just happens to be very resistant to caffeine. Why should I be told I cannot continue with my every day routine because others cannot consume in moderation? Any adult should be able to decide for themselves what they should & should not intake.
I can see it now: Doritos 4 Loko Tacos
horror vacui
I'm one of those people that have the gout. Simply it's due to high a concentration of purines in the blood, along with a pH level that causes those purines to form crystals. Caffeine is a purine. The AMA & American trained dietitians say coffee is a no no for gout. The Canadian medical expert say it makes no difference and in some cases it helps. So I guess you stay away from Starbucks and go with Tim Horton's coffee.... So if they can't make up my mind I'll keep drinking it. That reminds me, I have to go to the drug store and get more bad drugs for HBP & gout.
No, that's electrolytes.
This is my footer. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
whose bodies have rebelled against the onslaught of caffeinated everything that they've become allergic to caffeine and theobromine and can't consume anything with those molecules in them lest we risk horrific allergic reactions.
Cientists has been confirmed that caffeine is benefic to health but always depends on the montant of caffeine that someone drinks. However drink to much Monster or coffee is a first step to put yourself in the hospital.