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US CEO Says French Workers Have Three-Hour Work Day
First time accepted submitter M3.14 writes "In a letter addressed to French Industrial Renewal Minister, Maurice Taylor, chief executive of Titan, writes (French article with English letter) that it would be stupid to buy any factory in France since workers don't really work full time. He'd rather buy cheap factories in India and China instead and import tires back to France. He writes, 'They get one hour for breaks and lunch, talk for three and work for three. I told this to the French union workers to their faces. They told me that's the French way!'"
Thanks to the erosion of unions, as well as a proliferation of anti-worker laws Americans don't have to worry about personal time or their health. In fact, we can't really worry about either.
It's pathetically easy to get American's to forsake their vacations, their personal time, their families in order to pad a sleazy company's bottom line.
Well... they can get another job you say... Well the union busting plantation owners made sure that the vast majority of America's jobs abuse their employees, so you can only choose among bad options.
There are exceptions to every rule, but Americans have been voting against our own interest for at least the last 30.
Don't pat yourself on the back for opening your country up to near slave labor practices.
Just to give a litttle perspective to all of you Objectivists out there, Maurice is a naughty boy http://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/lr19107.htm, and I'd take anything he says with either a pound of salt or 50k slipped into your brief case.
But hey, free markets right?
So we have demonstrably false stereotypes of the French being played up by a conservative who prefers labor practices which exploit workers. As a fellow American, may I just say not everyone here would mock a country for having respect for the well being and rights of its citizens, even those who have a job.
Productivity has risen so much since 1950 that we should be able to work 4 hour days.
With automation and robotics, we have a time rapidly approaching when there won't be enough work to go around if we insist on full time. There isn't enough work to go around now with some people working 60 hours a week.
Listen- capital thinks they create jobs. But Henry Ford knew... it is people with money to BUY things that creates jobs. If you don't hire anyone in France at 1st world wages, pretty soon you won't be able to sell your expensive tires there. You'll have to sell them at the prices you sell them in China.
For comparison- movies that cost $20 in the US cost $2.50 in China. A visit to the doctor for $50 in the US runs $3 in China. Heart surgery that costs $100k in the US runs about $16k in China.
So if you don't hire french workers, pretty soon you'll have to sell your $20 tires with $2 profit for $3 dollars with $.30 cents profit.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Funny that the summary doesn't include his initial statement to the French industry official that approached him: "How stupid do you think we are?"
In a word: Very.
CNN observes that Taylor is not only a relic of the 80s' leveraged buyout "corporate raiders" era, he's a hypocrite as well for wanting to make tires in China:
"The U.S. government is not much better than the French. Titan had to pay millions to Washington lawyers to sue the Chinese tire companies because of their subsidizing. Titan won. The government collects the duties. We don't get the duties, the government does," said Taylor.
All of this is beside the point however. US workers have less vacation/break time than anyone else on the planet, in a time where it is increasingly recognized that giving more breaks to workers results in more productivity. The real stupidity comes from failing to notice how well the rest of the world can keep pace with the much-vaunted "American productivity" while maintaining a vastly better quality of life.
Oh Yes.
Come down to India and China, where we have no goddamn lives any more. We work more than 12 hours a day on menial tasks at odd times. Forget work-life balance, because we really have no lives. And we work because that's how poor we are, with little choice in life and no government looking out for us. Train us. Use us. Abuse us. Talk to us in racial undertones. Marvel at our ability to take crap for little money.
Get away with your profits.
Welcome to the bright world of outsourcing.
Everyone votes as if they are the fabulously wealthy fat cat, that they dream about being. The reality is that they are a slave, and by accepting the "winner takes all" mindset, they are merely further enriching the tiny population of existing winners. Much better to accept that the typical American is a wage slave, and that the country should be run for the benefit of the wave slave majority (gasp, socialism!)
its not a politician its a CEO moron, he just sold out thousands of jobs across the world for slave labor and a fat bonus
Talk about how much they get done.
If I had a bunch of workers that worked for an hour, but got the same amount of work done as another bunch of workers would in ten hours (assume that the groups are the exact same size), I would happily pay that first bunch a full day's pay of $X rather than pay the second bunch a full day's pay of $X. Sure, they're working fewer hours ... but they're getting more done, so I'd be getting better value for money.
You get what you measure; if you're measuring the hours worked, you might not be getting the productivity for those hours that you hope for.
Compare programmers. You'll get better results if they work their 40 hours a week and relax out of hours than if you drive them to work 60 or 80 hours in crunch mode for months on end.
Productivity has risen so much since 1950 that we should be able to work 4 hour days.
We used those productivity gains to increase our GDP rather than shorten our workday. While an increased GDP inflates the bank balances of the rich more than it does the middle-or-lower classes, there are benefits in having a strong economy for us too; most people I know are living "better" (bigger house, more expensive car, more travel, more disposable income) than their parents were at the same age - and frequently with lower debt.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
France law sets full time workers at 35 hours per weeks. This is much more than 3 hours of work. One could argue that 35 hours is not the highest working time in the world, but french worker GDP per working hour is quite high, which make France still relevant.
The Grizz rant is just a point against globalization. It demonstrates very well that it can be used to lower worker conditions as much as wanted.
It's just bullshit some scumbag CEO made up. Don't pay it any heed.
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
The main problem is that most unions are about nepotism and self-perpetuation nowadays.
They don't really provide all that much protection to workers anymore.
And they don't provide all that much help in collective bargaining with owners anymore.
They have their nice, rigid little idea of the way things "ought to be" with a bunch of leeches falling between the cracks while other, honest, hardworking members get shafted. Why?
The three tier structure in most unions.
The union leaders, "Old Boys' Club" (who are in good with the former), and "Those other peons" (who aren't in good with the former). Each tier being an order or two of magnitude larger than the one preceding it.
So you get guys whose job it is to stuff their thumbs up their asses all day and do nothing, getting paid huge sums compared to the union average.
Then you get the guys who know them who get the "supervisor" positions. Again, full time, much higher wages than the average.
Then you get pretty much everyone else. The poor schlub who's just there to do his job as best he can. Who doesn't happen to fit in to the social group. The guys who're constantly off work because "there's no work". Or they're being replaced by someone with more clout.
Fuck unions.
At one point, they were a good and useful thing in this country.
Nowadays, they're just an extra hand out looking for more money who provide no service.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
How many hours a day do you spend zoning out in meetings? That's the American Way.
Three hours actual productive work per day? I wish. Air thieves doing negative work everywhere. 'We should put together a committee to study the problem, meet once a week.' I run when I hear that phrase. Actually I run when I see where the conversation is headed.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Yeah, but for the time being, they still have a market to sell goods produced by labor paid at third world rates for first world prices. Sure, it'll dry up eventually, and then they're back to the same profit margins that they'd have if they both made and sold it there - but they'll make a hefty profit until then. And what of it if the new market is China? It doesn't really matter if it's made for $2 and sold for $3, or made for $20 and sold for $30 - especially when the purchasing power of that $2 is that much higher (which it will be once the wages are depressed lower in first world countries due to outsourcing).
Anyway, much as I don't trust the notion that free market solves all problems, this isn't a failure of the free market. The problem here is that while companies are free to shop for labor where it's cheaper, even across country lines, workers can't shop for higher-paid jobs across the same. So the workforce is artificially segregated into compartments, enabling price discrimination between them. Of course this situation will be abused in a capitalist economy, so long as it's legal and it makes money! The only two workarounds are to either let the labor flow freely as well (i.e. open immigration), or impose tariffs on foreign goods to counterbalance the cost of living differences. Both approaches come with strings attached, but the former is straight out nonviable for many reasons (the amount of migration that'll have to happen to even the market is far beyond what first world countries can manage to handle), while the latter would actually work. Ironically, it's being argued against on "free market" basis, even though all it'd do is make the market more free (or at least more balanced!).
It's France... they talk to enjoy the sound of their language.
...And it didn't really work, apparantly. France is only two placed behind the US in GDP per hour worked.
US Productivity has been rising since the beginning.
Since 1970 it's more than doubled.
Productivity in the US is so high that if it were equally distributed, everyone could get $38,000 worth of stuff - every man, woman, and child in the country - and then do it again next year. And the year after that.
Our productivity is so high we're beginning to run out productive job slots. To take an example, the number of people needed in agriculture is vanishingly small compared to the number needed a hundred years ago. Machines now do most of the work.
We read about this all the time: Google's self-driving car will put professional drivers out of work, Watson will put many doctors out of work... the list goes on.
Our culture requires people to work in order to be valid members. We look down upon people receiving welfare, government aid, social security, and so on. The talk around Washington is that people on medicare are moochers! Let's get rid of it and make them pay their own way!
We've doubled productivity, yet we haven't reduced the time we're required to work - in our "race to the bottom" people are working longer hours for ever lowering wages. Sometimes people have to work 3 jobs just to get by.
The solution is to reduce the weekly workload of all employees. If we went to a 30-hour work week with overlapping days, we could eliminate unemployment and pay everyone a living wage. As productivity rises, we could cut the working hours even more.
If we were more like the French, people would have more leisure time to enjoy the fruits of a highly productive society.
Don't knock the French - they've got this "working for a living" thing figured out.
production workers typically get 2 15 min breaks and a 30 min lunch, which is what we are talking about
I would have too. Anyone who thinks it's a good idea to charge ten times the cash and do a quarter of the work deserves to starve. Unions can protect you from a lot of bad things but your own greed, laziness, and stupidity are not among them.
Violence is like duct tape. If it doesn't solve the problem, you didn't use enough.
I hate hour long lunches
ok I did not hate them when I lived 5 min away from my house, but otherwise OMFG shoot me in the head with a nail gun ... even if I go somewhere it doesnt take me an hour to eat a sandwich, then what do you do
I rather go home a half hour earlier
As a guy who worked for a company with its headquarters in France, I'm siding with the CEO on this.
the united states may be the next communist country to go down the drain
oh hang on silly me america is a "democracy" and has a "capitalist" economy
i started off having read the definitions of quoted words in a non-american dictionary
I keep hearing this "not enough work" nonsense. Look around. Don't you see many things that need to be done but aren't? There's plenty of work. I see enough for me to do in three lifetimes. The problem isn't a lack of work. The problem is that the very people who keep touting the power of the market have created a market where most work will never be done. It is their job to find ways to create a profit from work, and they're not doing it.
I don't know. Pretty much everything in life is negotiable. While I would personally rather work a little harder than that I can appreciate that there are people who push back. Is it laziness and greed or is it just bargaining for the best possible position you can get? After all, isn't that what business is all about?
http://www.rootstrikers.org/
the CEO forgot one thing :
workers work only 3 hours a day because they don't have work
No investment in this factory since 10 years !
don't forgot : Michelin manufactures tyres in France (and abroad) and wins a lot of money.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/january_february_2012/features/the_myth_of_american_productiv034576.php
i'm an IT guy
in our company, we are 2 people to support 130 users, so the ratio is 1 for 65 users
in the USA sister company, the ratio is 1 for 40 users
we are less, we do more
no productivity in France ?
There are good products that come from France, whether it is food, clothing, houseware, colognes, and the like. France is usually associated with luxury products. What is important is the net result. What are they making? What is the quality of the product? If it takes them three hours to make/build a top quality item, so be it. As a consumer, I care about the end result. Products made where labour is exploited tends to be shoddy. There has to be care and pride infused into a product. Watchmakers do not spend many hours a day working, but they produce amazing results. There is such a thing as 'work hard', but also 'work smart'. I feel awful for workers in Mexico who break their back for a lousy 60 dollars per week, and their living expenses are not that different from the USA. I prefer products not made by slaves. If I was setting up a factory, I want to make sure my products are made with care, love, and pride.
"SO we bide our time, waiting for a purer kick to bloom and the future is still bleak, uncertain and beautiful" -GSYBE
I've been in jobs where the actual work could be phoned in. You could get caught up by say 10:30AM. The rest of the day you bullshitted with co-workers, had lunch, took a walk, did whatever.
In a lot of U.S. business it's nothing but busy work and seat time.
sadly some people try and bargain for more than their worth and get cut off from those who pay the bills. Is this the fault of the employee for asking for more than their worth? or the employer for being greedy???
I think the issue is when you feel that you deserve to work a couple hours a day (or week) and get paid more than other people who work for 10s of hours a week (or day) and be paid the same amount. I am sure I will be down moded for this one but sadly the truth hurts. If I own a business, I am going to maximize my profits, and if that means opening a plant in china, or XX instead of YY, well thats not my fault, thats the market. If you dont like the rules, or the way things are running in your country, change the rules to make it more competitive, if that dont work change the rules to keep workers, or products from ZZ from entering your country.
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
It's only capitalist for the top 1%. For the rest of us, it's communism, or feudalism, and only the 1% for whom it's capitalist can describe which of the other two it is for the rest of us.
If the workers don't make enough to buy his tires it matters not how much labor they perform. Eventually manufacturers will learn the hard fact that people can't buy what they can't afford.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
If you read the letter to the end (yes I know...), after the tirade against the French workers, the main subject is subsidizing and unfair competition from the Chinese.
The guy complains against the US government too, and says he'll end up producing only from China and India.
So the French may not be working enough, but the Americans can break their backs all they want, the tires are still coming from China.
This is the important aspect, and it is one which is common to western workers, and more interesting than French- or US-bashing.
So if the workers do like their bosses do it's wrong? Less work and big pay is what management is all about.
Headline: CEO says French workers have a 3 hour day.
Article: CEO says that French workers have a 7 hour day but loaf a lot.
In this case it's not just Slashdot that's to blame for the misleading headline, but come on. What he actually said may be insulting to the French, but is not inherently ridiculous. What the headline claims he said is ridiculous. Sensationalism.
It already is feudalism. The difference is that we call our "lords" a CEO.
Otherwise, it all applies pretty well.
I would have too. Anyone who thinks it's a good idea to charge ten times the cash and do a quarter of the work deserves to starve. Unions can protect you from a lot of bad things but your own greed, laziness, and stupidity are not among them.
Careful what you wish for: someone somewhere can do your job cheaper too.
if you work a solid 8 hours a day and get your minimum wage you're still not going to beat chinese workers. so no, i don't think if i work 2 hours a week i deserve to get paid more than starving chinese people, but i still bargain for the best deal i can get.
This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
...And it didn't really work, apparantly. France is only two placed behind the US in GDP per hour worked.
And the really funny part is that the USA ranks behind those "librul" pot smoking socialist hippies in the Netherlands.
The USA is no more communist than the USSR was.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Indeed. Damn those people who think we should be trying to make our lives easier rather than a handful of obscenely rich individuals even wealthier !
> "and if that means opening a plant in china, or XX instead of YY, well thats not my fault, thats the market"
Yeeeeah, and severe work conditions and exploitation of human and natural resources in China and other developing countries has nothing to do with it. That's just the market.
Said like a true CEO!
It actually makes a lot of sense. A lot of people in the Netherlands work part-time, often 3 or 4 days a week. Working less hours generally means that the hours you do work are more productive. So a workforce that works less hours per person will usually have a higher per-hour productivity.
The french minister sent an answer to Maurice Taylor (who is known to be a troll btw). I couldn't find an english translation but it's a well written answer. (sorry, only pdf's and jpg available at this time)
answer page 1
answer page 2
About the 3h/day of talking, the factory was in a transition period where they temporarily switched their production line from tires for car to tires for truck, and the production line for car tires wasn't fully operational anymore. Taylor would have sent the workers home without payment, but the french union refused. That's their difference.
Of course french workers are not allowed to chat for 3h/day, anyone with a sane mind and who have worked in real life understands this.
"I think the issue is when you feel that you deserve to work a couple hours a day (or week) and get paid more than other people who work for 10s of hours a week (or day) and be paid the same amount."
I suppose that depends on what you do in those hours. It is quite likely you pay your attorney and your doctor as much or more for working a few hours as you pay your grunts for working a full time week.
There is truth in this though. An hour of one man's life is not worth more than another. You can make up lost dollars but not lost hours. The doctor and the lawyer just invested dollars and hours up front. There is no reason their total lifetime earnings should exceed that of the grunt plus the cost of their education unless they are working more hours overall and then the increase should be relative to the number of extra hours.
An important thing for an employer to remember is that the worth of an employee isn't defined by the going market rate for labor. The worth of an employee is the total gross profit of the organization divided by the total number of employees. You then average education hours and hours worked and adjust up or down at the individual level based on their relative education hours and hours worked. There is a rampant fallacy that overseeing 30 employees makes you more valuable than those employees. If it takes you 40 hours to oversee a staff of 40 you aren't more valuable than an employee under you working 40 hours. A related fallacy is that the stress of white collar work is somehow worse than that of physical labor. This is nothing but an attempt to shed guilt from accepting disproportionate pay and a lack of desire to perform physical labor. Another myth is that people are somehow magically more valuable because they are close to the source of revenue. It isn't uncommon to see 5-20% of revenue pissed away at the sales staff. In reality long term sales performance is dictated not by fast talking sales staff and their relationships with clients but by the output of the low paid grunts actually making the goods and performing the services. The "relationship" is based on the sales staff "shooting the client straight" which amounts to having sold them quality goods and services over time. Not only are sales staff not worth 5-20% they don't actually work anywhere near the number of hours they would report.
A similar fallacy is that living your job somehow amounts to actually working more hours. You might work at random times, you might be thinking about work during off hours, but typically staff that "live their job" are deluding themselves with regard to their significance in the overall machine. Usually this is seen in executives and for the most part everyone past middle management is either doing what middle management has told them needs done or getting in the way. They have far more ability to screw things up than to fix it. They'll spend 60hrs a week in useless meetings to produce a couple hours worth of output. Working at a higher level doesn't make the problems more difficult or require more time than working at the bottom. To make it worse these individuals often would count countless hours socializing with their peers as work because their peers are similar executives. Shareholders are only worth something at the point of investment, after investment they aren't worth anything at all!
All of this staff is needed but their contribution is not really more than that of the grunts. If your organization has grunts that are professionals the grunts are probably each worth more than any manager or executive in your organization. The market dictates what you pay staff but that has very little relation to what they are actually worth. Investors aren't worth anything at all!
Now go away or i shall taunt you a second time!
No, that's the standard working week, many jobs are 35 hours but overtime still exists (some jobs are still 39 hours) as well as jobs where you basically don't count your hours (working as a cook in a restaurant, some executives, some researcher scientists, entrepreneurs, some people exploited on the labor black market etc.)
Suggesting 35 hours is the legal maximum is uninformed bullshit.
So what? The french are the most productive people in the world while working less hours, and morons call them lazy.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-grizz-mauls-lazy-french-workers-over-threehour-day-8503804.html - stupid traditional business thinking more hours = more productivity
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2009-08-20/markets/30087051_1_capita-france-s-gdp-work - some facts and figures
The USA is no more democratic than the USSR was communist.
Fixed.
GDP US: M$ 14,991,300
Inhabitants US: 315,544,000
Gini: 47.7
HDI: 0.910
GDP France: M$ 2,775,518
Inhabitants France: 65,350,000
Gini: 28.9
HDI: 0.884
US GDP per person: $ 47509.38
France GDP per person: $ 42471.58
If the assumption is correct, that the French work only half the time, they are still similar effective than their US pendants. The French are super efficient people. And on top of it they have a much higher rate of equality (see Gini values). So if I have to choose, I would rather life in France then in the US (when I look at these figures). However, I do not think that a French human being is almost twice as efficient than an US citizen.
So the point the US dork made is wrong. The only thing he does not like are unions. Well if you do not like organized people, stay where you are. Don't come to Europe. We all have unions (even the British). Maybe he could go to Asia, they do not have worker unions in China.
I agree, I live in an industrial city where Boeing used to build jets. The unions struck and demanded and struck and demanded until it was cost effective to move all the jobs out of state. Now all the little UAW sissies are crying and trying to hold whatever aircraft jobs they can from the other companies( who are also downsizing and moving away for the same reasons). Yeah, it must be nice to be paid $30 hr (fantastic wages for the cost of living around here) to do a job that commonly pays half that for non union, for as long as it lasts anyway. I guess they don't mind the transient lifestyle of moving city to city. People just don't get it, especially when they're drawing pay like they do, until it's too late, then most still don't get it.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
If you want to live like you did in the 1950's you wouldn't have to work that hard.
1 car per family, 1000 sqft house with 1 car garage, 1 19inch TV, no cable, no cell phone, etc.
The fact is people value luxury and are willing to work for it.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
Is the hour-long lunch necessarily part of their work day? I take one hour off for lunch every day, but I still have to put in the 7.5 hours of actual work that are required of me every day.
The lunch hour is not included in the work time, even in France.
McCartney fans pay bus tickets. [...] Lennon fans too, with discretion.
is an idiot. Most factories that aren't run with slave labor are 90-99% machines. Look up how applesauce gets made, or sleeping bags, sometime. Hell, even with slaves Foxconn is switching to robots. We're running out work to do. My buddy drives truck for a living. 10, 15 years from now that job won't exist. Again, robots.
So, when there's not enough work to go around, what do we do? Do we let 98% starve (lazy bastards), 1% work as slaves and then 1% live like God-Kings? Do you know an alternative? I'm anxious to hear a solution that doesn't boil down to socialism.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
I don't know about France, but here in Germany (also an EU country) break time does NOT count towards work time.
So if I say I work 8 hours/day, I'm at work for 8 hours + break times (45 to 60 min., usually).
"There is no reason their total lifetime earnings should exceed that of the grunt plus the cost of their education unless they are working more hours overall and then the increase should be relative to the number of extra hours."
Pure and utter bull.
People have different abilities, different aptitudes, different attitudes, different personalities, etc etc and so forth.
A doctor will always have a greater worth to society and economy than a burger flipper. Always. You cannot argue otherwise.
It's also much harder to become doctor, there are far fewer people able to do it, and who want to do it.
So why in hell should the burger flipper be entitled to as much lifetime earnings as the doctor?
Don't you realize that if an economy were managed in such a way you effectively create huge disincentive for people to become doctors? Some still will, but many will look at Easy Path A compared to Hard Path B, see they achieve the same result, and thus choose A.
If someone is content to be a burger flipper their whole life, have at it. I've known a few people who were fine with it (though eventually two of them decided to open their own place and now have a successful local chain, and just sold their first franchise a few hundred miles away).
As a humanist, the inclination is to say that people have the same worth. And they do on a human scale.
But when it comes to how they choose to spend their time in trade for money, they absolutely do have different worths.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
It's the free market that raises you out of dirt-floor poverty, with all its lumps, not 10,000 years of "government".
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Sure, because it's not like the Gilded age ever happened or anything.
sadly some people try and bargain for more than their worth and get cut off from those who pay the bills. Is this the fault of the employee for asking for more than their worth? or the employer for being greedy??? I think the issue is when you feel that you deserve to work a couple hours a day (or week) and get paid more than other people who work for 10s of hours a week (or day) and be paid the same amount. I am sure I will be down moded for this one but sadly the truth hurts. If I own a business, I am going to maximize my profits, and if that means opening a plant in china, or XX instead of YY, well thats not my fault, thats the market. If you dont like the rules, or the way things are running in your country, change the rules to make it more competitive, if that dont work change the rules to keep workers, or products from ZZ from entering your country.
I doubt these guys think they deserve to be paid more than others who work harder. They probably think EVERYONE should be paid more and are just not able to help the other guys. These guys unionizing and demanding more money for less work is their end of the deal. On the other end is you demanding more work for less money. In theory you'll meet in the middle or thereabouts. It's a pendulum that has strong forces pulling it either way, or at least that's how I see it.
Bullshit.
We are also bound to the 48 hours limit.
But hours between 35 and 48 must be either overpaid or given back as vacation. And that 35 hours limit legally applies only to companies with more than 20 employees.
Most other EU countries also have a similar limit, but above 35.
And most managing jobs have employment contracts that make the pay not related to the hours worked, so the 35 hours limit doesn't apply. In that case, most get about 2 weeks of additionnal vacation (in addition to the legal 5 weeks).
I think the issue is when you feel that you deserve to work a couple hours a day (or week) and get paid more than other people who work for 10s of hours a week (or day) and be paid the same amount.
I own a business. I'm in the business of selling my labor. Therefore, I'm going to maximize MY profits. That means getting paid as much as I can for as little work as possible. If business owners shouldn't be stigmatized for being greedy assholes, then workers shouldn't be stigmatized for being lazy assholes.
This double standard has to go.
Don't you realize that if an economy were managed in such a way you effectively create huge disincentive for people to become doctors? Some still will, but many will look at Easy Path A compared to Hard Path B, see they achieve the same result, and thus choose A.
Although I agree mostly, I have to say that I feel we'd all be better served if the doctors in our society we more likely to be people interested in healing rather than people who are interested in fancy cars and social prestige.
> If I own a business, I am going to maximize my profits, and if that means opening a plant in china, or XX instead of YY, well thats not my fault, thats the market. If you dont like the rules, or the way things are running in your country, change the rules to make it more competitive, if that dont work change the rules to keep workers, or products from ZZ from entering your country.
That is greed. You don't NEED to maximize profits, you need enough revenue to pay all bills, invest to grow, and have some incentive. This idea that you NEED TO MAXIMIZE PROFITS, so much more that it's worth being inhumane, is pathetic to say the least.
I'm god, but it's a bit of a drag really...
On the other hand, a Doctor is worth 10x of a good engineer and easily should be able to make 10x the money.
Unless you're healthy and need a bridge built...
Karma: Poor (Mostly affected by lame karma-joke sigs)
The good news is that Marxism is rarely fatal these days,
It's killing a hell of a lot of north Koreans every day.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."