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Official: Playstation 4 Will Play Used Games
An anonymous reader writes "Quenching some rumors 'Sony Worldwide Studios boss Shuhei Yoshida has told Eurogamer that PlayStation 4 will not block the use of second-hand games, contrary to various reports, speculation and even a Sony patent unearthed last month.'"
...but they've done the bait and switch before. I'm sure Microsoft will say something similar before the launch of their console.
While this article is framed as a victory for the consumer, it is yet another reminder that technology [such as Cinavia] can, and will, be used to subvert our existing rights [to lend, copy, borrow, make backups].
Step by step, resistance will be overcome and we shall be reduced to facilitators of consumption, thanks to the ever-increasing apathy amongst the general public.
Use ISO 8601 dates [YYYY-MM-DD]
Also, you'll be able to run linux on it!
"To save face I have decreed that the used-game lockout is to be removed from the product in development."
Other than better graphics I didn't see any improvements in gameplay from the promo videos
Just like Linux and the PS3.
It's clear that the PS4 is aimed at addressing many of the disadvantages of downloaded games (streaming full games to try them out, being able to play games before they finish downloading, etc.). If you can get people predominantly downloading games you obviate the second-hand games problem.
(But not reselling digital games, although Valve's legal team are hard at work to hobble that.)
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
That would be fine except that Sony has shown that they are OK with removing features later, as they did with OtherOS and several others.
Remember Linux compatibility? Remember the PS3 initially was able to play PS2 games? Why would we believe anything that Sony says?
DRM? No thanks, I'll just get it somewhere else...
Because Sony could as well allow playing used games only after you have payed some fee to have the game's license tied to your online account. Because i assume you have to be always online for that thing too.
It's all poop.
The last playstation will let you run linux! See how well that worked out?
You are a DAMM FOOL if you believe anything sony says will be true longer than the 2 seconds it took them to say it.
But there are plenty of fools on the planet now. They'll all buy into sonys bullshit YET AGAIN. And then come whine when sony screws them over again and again.
You can't fix stupid.
Maybe they realized they actually wanted to sell a few. Certainly I believe there is a huge market who only buy because they think they'll sell the product on again later to get some money back, even if they never get actually round to it.
And those that do... many re-invest what they make back into buying newer games.
Thinking a £40+ item may be a dud that can never be resold is seriously going to put people off.
Those that are happy to wait months to years to buy second hand because a title is too expensive, will STILL wait months to years to buy the title when it's in the bargain bin instead of paying more for something they don't think is worth it to them.
I don't believe they'll ever stop piracy, and killing second hand sales would push those less well off to either forgo entirely and look to other forms of entertainment, or consider piracy. Either way, reducing sales.
Of course this speaks nothing about the use of licences required to use an ever increasing part of the games, be it various forms of DLC, or even the ability to go online at all. If the new game comes with some such licence tied to PSN, which requires $10 or more to buy separately, that second hand copy might not seem as atractive anymore.
Run with the lemmings, and you'll get your feet wet.
(the onion theme plays)
Breaking news on the Sony Playstation 4. A Sony Rep says it will actually be used to play games. While the main focus of the next generation of consoles has been on selling people more and more content and locking out features, an expert on the new platform says there is still room for gamers. "We're listening to our customers and hearing that they mainly just want to play games. We're seriously considering it for the Playstation 4."
I suspect Sony really don't want to withstand another volley of terrible publicity. I also doubt that they want to drag the whole issue through a court, which would almost certainly happen.
The current rules seem to be ill defined. Gamers technically own the games, but are at the whim of the PS Network. This gives Sony enormous power over defining what "ownership" actually means.
Prohibiting second hand games formally now would jeopardize the console sales. Doing it gradually or suddenly (like with Linux on the PS3) a year or two down the line by way of PS Network T&C changes would be far safer for them.
Don't pay attention to what he says, but what he doesn't. Sure it will play used games, he did not say what you have to do to play them. They might require you to sign into playstation network and pay an unlock fee which may or may not equal the price of the game as new for example. or you might be limited to X amount of hours to play a game that has been linked to a different console unit.
It's sad that it is news when corporation announces that they are going to treat their customer nicely...
you will have to pay for an online pass
What about the Vita model where only new games contain all the game content via online services and used games don't have access to it? I would expect Sony to do the same with the PS4.
Will it have an "Other OS" function too?
You are welcome on my lawn.
Once you've paid the publisher for the privilege of owning your used copy by way of a large secondary fee.
to be honest, from a person who has lived in Japan a very long time, this really doesn't come as too much of a surprise. There are dozens of VERY big chains and thousands upon thousands of stores both parts of chains and independently owned in Japan that exist almost solely for the exchange of used games. Some deal exclusively in games, most usually mix in some used books/manga/anime/magazines/DVDs/clothes but games and manga would definitely be their meat and potatoes if simple floorspace allocation is anything to go by. If there was any possibility that this was even remotely true, there's a very, very large population of Japanese people who would have already risen up as one angry mob complete with the Japanese modern day equivalent of torches and pitchforks and fucking SLAYED Sony.
Engadget says that the guy was uncharacteristically hesitant when he made this declaration, implying that it's not the simple games distribution mechanism that we're familiar with. They speculate that there may be a fee or something else involved, or another approval process. Needless to say, if a single player game requires an internet connection there's reason to be suspicious.
Playstation 4 Will Play Used Games
Until it doesn't! :p
It seems so much easier to just build a PC. =P
That is to say PlayStation 4 games because it is _not_ backwards compatible with ps3 games so.... Yea...
Good leaders run toward problems, bad leaders hide from them.
As if millions of gamers let out a collective sigh of relief.
Even if Microsoft / Sony start embedding the serial nrs onto the disc it's fundamentally no different than what happened already for years. It just means users don't have to type in the code.
What is more worrying is that there are numerous ways that the serial nr's activation status can be used / abused. For example, one game might decide to disable online without a refresh code which is semi reasonable (the person buying the game didn't pay for the servers that run the online portion). But what if games become glorified playable demos, or the game starts showing annoying interstitial adverts in second hand form unless you buy a refresh code? You can bet the likes of EA, Activision, Ubisoft are already salivating at the ways they can claw back cash from second hand titles and they'll go as far as the console vendors let them unless there are reasonable limits.
I already spent my next gen console money on a nice new computer. So no ps4 or xbox 720 for me. And the great thing is my computer plays games that I have had for years.
"Drive Fast Kill Slow"
Sony has lost the game.
I sold my PS3, and sticking with my decision. I have joined the PC master race, even if it means having to swallow GNU/Semen from GNU/Stallman.
Sent from my Windows 8 x86 battle station with NO start menu replacement installed.
I'm SO brave! Hopefully /r/ShitRedditSays hasen't infested Slashdot yet. If they have, then play me at Bubble Bobble, I will burst your femminism like I beat my mum at that stupid game since the early 90s.
Remember that the reason for Sony to initially have some (crappy) Linux support in PS3 was only to get around the game console tax in EU, as then the unit could be sold as a computer.
Another thing that is forgotten in the "Sony sucks" discussions that the early batch of PS3s had nasty overheating problems.
My suspicion is that yes it will play used games. Because old console games (developed before this year, let's say) had no way of being identified, you can't tell if the game is used or not. So sure, they will allow that so your old library of games still works. Why give themselves bad press when there's no resolution to it.
But newly developed games? They will come with activation codes that prevent resale. So PS3 used games, ok, but PS4 exclusives will not allow it going into the future.
shit.
even if the console "supports" it, there won't be any such thing when all the major publishers are switching to, or have already switched to, one-time-use serial numbers for both games and downloadable content -- using features built-in to the system by the console manufacturers to do it -- and tie those codes to a particular online account so they cannot be transferred or reused.
The problem isn't whether or not the PS4 can play used games- it is whether you can get the used game onto the console in the first place, and if the game publisher's DRM allows you to play the game.
We wanted to say we'll still support a second controller for another hand to join in the game
That is in fact consoles' biggest advantage over PCs. Because consoles are more often connected to a monitor large enough to support two to four players offline, major labels are more likely to develop games that support two to four players offline for consoles than for PCs. Case in point: Where are the PC fighting games other than Street Fighter IV?
Don't hold your breath for online play with used games
Sony and publishers of games on Sony's platforms have already been doing that since the PlayStation 2 by shutting off the matchmaking server of any game that's a couple years old. The most common error message is "DNAS error -103: This software title is not in service."
It's harmless, possibly even beneficial. Here are the reasons why.
1) It doesn't mean they intend to use it. A lot of patents are defensive, a sort of financial mutually-assured-destruction plan. If they say they have no intention of using it, that probably means exactly that. The patent system being as silly as it is results in these types of ploys. Sort of like the man who goes to the dentist and when the dentist grabs the drill, reaches out and lightly grabs the dentist by the balls and says "let's not hurt each other". Patent portfolios are very much like this. It doesn't mean you intent to harm anyone. It just means you can if provoked.
2) This means the Xbox can't block used games without paying a royalty to Sony if they press the matter. So at the very least your next Xbox will play used games. Which would be an unacceptable state of affairs for Sony. If they lied and blocked used games anyways, you would have the Xbox-next playing used games and the PS4 not. Which would you buy? I'm sure Sony has thought of this.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
The main "right" you have is the right to stop buying/downloading/borrowing stuff and go and do something creative instead, if you're that worried about it.
Sony took away the ability to "go and do something creative instead" on its hardware when it killed Other OS in PS3 system software 3.21.
Sony may also use product registration data to hunt down and kill their customers. Why not?
Because unlike what you propose, Sony has done something like that on all three of its previous platforms. Net Yaroze was produced in far too limited quantities, as was the PS2 Linux kit. Then the PS3 had Other OS taken away in a system software update.
Probably not. Only homebrew we'll see if bound to be more like playstation mobile's model.
killing the used game market which many parents rely on to even justify buying their kids a console in the first place.
The average age of a gamer is in the mid-30s, not under 18. Perhaps Sony is willing to abandon kids to Nintendo and mobile in order to focus on the DINK market with more disposable income, treating your DINK friend as collateral damage.
Not to mention the fact that this will kill off various retailers dependent on used game profits that would bring the wrath of governments worldwide.
On what grounds would governments hit Sony for this in a way that they haven't already hit console and smartphone makers for opening download stores?
It's suicide for any company to kill used games on their consoles
The official word is that Steve Jobs died of complications from pancreatic cancer, not from inability to resell iPhone and iPad games.
or the product will be dead and PC gaming will get a boost as a result.
If console gaming dies, on which platform will people play games that use multiple gamepads? Or will people have to buy a separate PC for each player?
Even if you never buy a used game you likely rent games
Console makers want to block that. In the cartridge era, Nintendo even applied for a patent for a version of the CIC (checking integrated circuit, the lockout microcontroller in NES, Super NES, and N64 consoles and Game Paks) designed to discourage rental of Game Paks. The CIC in the console would have a couple digits of its serial number stored in e-fuses and send it to the CIC in the Game Pak, and the CIC in the Game Pak would store ten serial numbers that it has been used with in its own e-fuses and fail to boot on an eleventh.
Lack of backwards compatibility is a deal breaker for me. I have quite a few ps1-3 games I like to play still.
Even if you never buy a used game you likely rent games or have people over
Not as likely as some might assume, at least among grown-ups. There are people on Slashdot who rarely have friends over because they lack the time to coordinate schedules. Instead, they play online with strangers.
who bring a game with them.
But do they also bring their saved games with them? If not, that could be done by offering a demo. Perhaps a game will play on other consoles but save only on the first console in which a disc is used. Allowing someone who borrows a game to play up to the first major save point would seem to align with the free demo that all Ouya games will have.
Maybe you should buy a computer if you want to run Linux, not a game console.
So what should I buy if I both want to run Linux and want to play games?
There have been enough games made that I never need to buy new ones and can still play until I die.
Until the multiplayer servers get shut off. Or until the sports game's rosters become outdated by several years. Or until your console finally dies and replacements are expensive because it has become a collector's item. Try finding a replacement CD-i console at an affordable price, especially since YouTube Poop brought it back to popularity. Or just try finding an affordable working Vectrex console.
So you prefer not to play online with strangers because of the homophobia that they express in in-game chat. In such a case, how do you play multiplayer without having to go out of your way to arrange schedules to play with friends who don't necessarily work the same shift as you?
The games I am talking about are hosted by the players.
I've never seen a console game that allows the players to host the matchmaking servers, even if one of the consoles acts as the server once the game has begun. In the interest of user interface simplicity and validation of genuine copies, these games all rely on servers operated by the publisher and/or console maker for matchmaking.
Have you perhaps heard of emulation?
I have, and I use it. So does Nintendo for those games that publishers on its past consoles have made available in the Virtual Console section of Wii Shop. But not all such games are available for re-buying. How are most people going to turn their cartridges into ROM images useful with an emulator without going the illegal route of downloading dumps from the Internet?
But they'll be sure to make it extremely convenient for individual games to block this ability.
Just like linux support, I'm sure we don't have to worry about a future update disabling this feature.
When was the last time games came on cartridges? N64?
True, the last major set-top console to use cartridges was the Nintendo 64. But Nintendo 3DS and PlayStation Vita are currently for sale and currently use cartridges.
Rom dumpers are available
I was looking for brands. I know Retrode works with Super NES and Sega Genesis cartridges, but what works with NES cartridges?
nor do I see a problem with downloading games you already own.
The law does.
There are some laws we all break on a regular basis, this is one I would ignore.
If I build a PC for someone, and I recommend that the customer break the law to obtain games for it, I'm committing contributory copyright infringement. See MGM v. Grokster.
Dumping disks is much easier.
Even Nintendo's discs that use a slightly nonstandard physical sector format that a lot of DVD-ROM drives have trouble with?
I have the option to plug in game controllers.
But how many PC games will recognize more than one game controller? I was under the impression that most were intended for mouse and keyboard and a separate PC per player. And how many allow use of a controller during the first-time installation that you acknowledge "may take a bit"?
I can build a PC that will be able to play games of PS2 and PS3 quality for about $600.
You'd have to build one that plays games of PlayStation 4 quality for that price, because you can get a PlayStation 3 that plays games of PlayStation 3 quality for about $250.
Except that the PS4's x86 AMD processor won't play old games
NES dumpers used to be far more common, you can still find designs to make your own out there.
Even if I, a geek, am willing to learn to solder, the sort of end users that enable economies of scale aren't geeks and aren't going to want to solder. They want to buy something that somebody else has already made, so that they can plug in the adapter, plug in the cartridge, push a button, and get a ROM file to play in an emulator.
You can dump a wii game using a hacked wii.
Which means you have to own the Wii in the first place, so why buy a gaming PC in the first place instead of just playing games on the Wii that you already own and doing everything else on a homework-and-Facebook PC or a tablet?
I just see a PC way more versatile than a console.
So do I, but I'm a geek. Most users are not geeks. How exactly does a PC's versatility benefit the average user in the living room? The average user expects a device connected to a TV to play video games, movies, and TV series, and that's pretty much it. The user doesn't expect to use a set-top device to surf, e-mail, tweet, or edit documents because a mouse and keyboard won't fit easily into the user's lap while in a recliner, nor can a user at a typical TV seating distance read the small text on web sites that target desktop PCs. Or if I have something all wrong, what am I missing?
Don't get me wrong; I want set-top PCs to become popular. But first I have to understand how to make them practical to a crowd accustomed to the limitations of consoles.
I can then though, take my existing setup, toss $400 at it every few years to keep up with the updated games.
Likewise, a console owner can toss a new console at an existing setup to keep up with new games.
'Tis a sad state of affairs that this would even be a newsworthy announcement when in the recent past, the ability to trade, buy, and play used games was the default anyway.
That said, to any publisher who has a product I might consider buying new, but who would do such an end run around First Sale and render a used game useless, I say, "Go fuck yourselves and eat a box of dicks. You lose the privilege of receiving my hard earned cash."
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They have said that the PS4 will have the ability to play used games, but they did not specify whether a new license key would need to be purchased or some other step would need to be taken first. All they said is that the PS4 hardware will physically be able to play used games. :P
A solitary person sitting around alone, nothing to do, fires up the PC and gets online to blast stuff with dozens of other people.
And these "dozens of other people" all too often end up blasting sexual and racial harassment and griefing right back at him.
A group of people get together in the same place at the same time, and when the question comes up "what should we do" the answer is "let's pull out the gaming console."
This happens often in households with children or at family reunions. Unless a game is rated M, children are an expected part of the audience, and parents not willing to buy each child his own gaming PC to create a home LAN are an expected part of the market.
I guess I'm becoming the last of my generation, haha. I haven't owned a television in four years so my PC as become my primary source of entertainment.
What kind of chair do you and others living in your household use to watch a two-hour movie at your PC desk? Perhaps a PC is a better entertainment choice for people who live alone, but what do you recommend for mom, dad, and ~2.3 children?
Why do you need a gamepad?
Because a mouse and keyboard are considered too bulky to use with multiple players sharing a PC, even if your operating system does provide a raw input API for multiple mice and multiple keyboards. And because a lot of households have only one PC that the family shares. And because platformers have tended to be less satisfying to me when played with a keyboard than when played with a gamepad.
world of goo
True, something like Lemmings or World of Goo would work great on a PC or tablet because it uses a pointing device in the same way an RTS uses a pointing device. But not all genres are made for pointing devices. How would you play Mario or Mega Man, for example, with a pointing device?
What he said, after much consulting with his PR people is 'used games can play on PS4'.
That's a far different statement.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if they left it up to the publisher to set the used game rights per game. Tied to only one console, tied to only one account, tied to one account but up to 3 consoles, disk must be in the console, no restrictions, etc.
Most new games sold for PS3 today have features that are locked except for the original purchaser, unless you pay an additional unlock fee.
I'd prefer they just ban used games outright instead of lying about it.
Fool me once, shame on me...
Why anyone would trust these guys is beyond me.