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China Says It Is the Target of US Hack Attacks
An anonymous reader writes "Officials at the Chinese Defense Ministry say hackers from the U.S. have been attacking Chinese military websites. 'The sites were subject to about 144,000 hacking attacks each month last year, two thirds of which came from the U.S., according to China's defense ministry. The issue of cyber hacking has strained relations between the two countries.' This follows recent hacks from people in China on high-profile U.S. sites, as well as a report accusing the Chinese government of supporting a hacking group. '[Defense Ministry spokesman Geng Yansheng] called on U.S. officials to "explain and clarify" what he said were recent U.S. media reports that Washington would carry out "pre-emptive" cyber attacks and expand its online warfare capabilities. Such efforts are "not conducive to the joint efforts of the international community to enhance network security," he said.'"
US government & corporate groups are hacking too. I cant wait for the "blah blah no proof" bullshit next.
About time. And preemptive my ass. China has been making state-orchestrated cyber attacks for years now. There's a war in cyberspace, did they just think the U.S. wouldn't show up?
...this kind of stuff will absolutely enhance network security. It's geopolitical stability that's in danger in the long term. But if we didn't destroy ourselves with nukes during the cold war, I think we'll come out of this one okay too.
Who would have guessed the US was engaged in offensive cyber operations?
sudo make me a sandwich
Yea, whatever China.
Next you're gonna tell me that your dad can beat up my dad.
Sorry, can't find it in me to feel at all sorry for them.
Way to go us and china
U.S. claims Tor nodes were running on their machines and so not responsible.
-- Thou hast strayed far from the path of the Avatar.
While China continues to loot the US.
If the US is under cyber attack from China and China is under cyber attack from the US.. Anybody ever thought that maybe it's a 3rd party group doing the work? spoofing IPs? etc.. Sheesh.
I say the U.S should just come out and say, "yep we are hacking you"..
This is a pretty good option for small nations who want to get back at larger ones.
Step 1: buy server time with bitcoin from someone in China
Step 2: hack some highly visible US companies with basic java exploits.
Step 3: stand back and watch them hack each other for the next 10 years with professional grade stuff.
You never let your military directly comment on the country's network security You're supposed to let "independent" security firms within your country make the assessments/accusations! Gives you plausible deniability when they're exposed for hyping a "cyberwar" in order to land lucrative government/commercial contracts for their services.
zomg lots of "APT" here and "APT" there coming again.
Because it needs to be aknowleged: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=WMD
======
1.Weapons of Mass Destruction--A mythical concept that lives in the minds of paranoid, old, white guys and is used to scare the public and gather support for attacking another country.
(also see bogeyman)
2.A term used to generate income for Haliburton.
3.Something that the US is permitted to own, but reserves the right to determine which other countries may also own them.
If we can convice Americans that Iraq has WMDs, we can kick the snot out of them and pay Haliburton to rebuild the place.
=====
I used to be able to scroll down to the bottom of the page and it would automatically load the next page of stories. Now, I have to press Next.
I was messing with the settings. So, perhaps I changed a setting I shouldn't have.
Is there a setting that will change all options back to default?
for a typical point of entry, that's usually a daily total, guess the US is not trying hard enough.
Always copying others' innovations. "They attack U.S.!" "Now THEY attack US!"
Don't make me have to stop this car and separate you two!
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
hackers from the U.S. have been attacking Chinese military websites.
Wake me up when the U.S. military is hacking Chinese civilian/banking computers or trying to SSH into everything.
Didn't Prohias have a cartoon series about this?
What about this so-called "Great Firewall"
the war already started and nobody knows?
They're claiming an original art patent on spying on foreign governments using hackers.
Even if this were true (and all signs point that it's just a knee-jerk reaction by China), what the Chinese are reporting is attacks against their military infrastructure from US IPs. This is way different than what the NYT and Mandiant claim the Chinese are doing which is leveraging the capabilities of it's cyber army (god I hate that term) against private corporations for the betterment of it's government controlled businesses.
That's a huge difference. Yes the US is probably targeting the Chinese army but it sure as heck isn't specifically targeting Huawei and giving the information over to Cisco.
Seriously China, grow up.
We need a leader who is willing to quote Kang saying "You've committed a wanton act of war!"
Seriously, what is it going to take before people in our government are willing to publicly accuse China of acts of war?
The US could respond by saying the Chinese "lacked technical proof" and was "not based on fact." but they could be accused of breaking copyright!
These views express my own personal opinions, not those of the other voices in my head
Wake me when American military hackers are targeting Chinese civilians.
What's probably happened, is that they got all butthurt at being found out for the criminal hacking and economic espionage, went rummaging through their logs, found a ping sweep from some US IP and said "we're morally equivalent to you, we get hacked too".
The Red Chinese *still* come across as idiots and piss-weak Third World losers. That hasn't changed in the slightest.
From world war to cold war to cyber war. Can't say I don't like the trend...
Let's face it, enough china controlled IP addresses are the origins of malicious behavior on the internet that the hacking targeted at China from the US doesn't all necessarily have to come from military actions. There's been more than one time I've thought about retaliating against repeat offenders myself but know I'm not good enough to do so without either getting caught or making things worse. As I have more self control than most I find it difficult to believe that others have not given in to the urges for cyber vengeance.
This invisible war has been going on for a while and I doubt that the governments and their soldiers are the only people waging it.
Here's an idea, don't put anything worth stealing on said website.
Anyone that has a vague understanding of breaking into systems knows it's happening all over the world. It's not a question of "is government A attacking other governments?" The real question is "what data has been stolen and who is tightening their security to keep sensitive data safe?" You'd have to be a moron to think it's not happening.
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The point of this announcement is to distract from the criticism they are receiving for launching hack attacks by painting a picture of everyone does it. So whether its true or not they would make this claim. I would believe they are receiving hack attacks from the US, but 2/3rds of them having a US origin sounds suspicious.
New evidence recently uncovered indicates the first digital computer was developed under the leadership of Chairman Mao during the Long March. Recent academic publishings out of China claim modern hacking techniques are mere derivations of mathematical techniques pioneered in ancient China, during the Quing Dynasty. And also, they made Alien.
Yep, the US government is hacking the Chinese military in order to steal all their valuable, state of the art, highly effective, totally awesome ..... oh who am I kidding. It went like this.
US government: We need you to hack in to the Chinese military and steal all their secrets.
.... a few weeks later .... ..... ahhh, wait a minute .... ... in fact, you got the wrong decade, these are all really old.
Hacker: Sure thing, I'll get right on it.
Hacker: Here you go, there was quite bit there but I got it all.
US Government: perfect, you've done your country a great service
Hacker: what?
US Government: You hacked the wrong country, these are all our military files
Hacker: Dude, it was from China, it was all right there in the folder named "R sekret stuf that we didnt get from noone else", behind the folder labeled "Taiwan Invasion plans"
US Government: Ok, well, errr thanks, I guess we have nothing to worry about.
When it comes to countries of the world that happen to have internet connections, it turns out that pretty much everybody is hacking everyone else. Maybe not all of it is government sanctioned, but if you were to argue that it wasn't happening you'd be lying.
So the point is?
Instead of whining about it and expecting somebody to do something to make it stop, make sure to implement good security on anything that comes in contact with the internet. If you don't like that you can always GTFO and stay offline or build your own separate isolated network.
I forecast that you're not going to be getting much sleep.
If you think that the US military treats civilian websites in other countries as out of bounds for their well-funded hacking, you're very naive indeed.
Behind this is the larger problem that we have no particular way of resolving international disputes on the internet. The net maps poorly to international boundaries. And if national law on hacking is young, clunky and often pretty awful, effect international action is pretty much nonexistent.
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The Chinese are not like Westerners. Look at the dry wall
contaminated with industrial waste. Look at the pet food
contaminated with melamine. These people are scum and
have no morals or ethics.
Mark my words, the US will wish it had nuked China into
oblivion when it had the chance.
They got us shooting at each other.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
The Mandiant report links the attacks to the Chinese government. To a specific group in a specific location during business hours Beijing local time. The Chinese see attacks from US IP address and blame US.
This is typical political BS so prevalent in the US. When the Dems blame the Republicans for some issue, the Republicans say the Dems do it too. That's regardless of whether either statement was true or not. The point is to deflect blame and raise suspicion of the other side.
Further, since we can't trust the media to actually dig into the actual truth on this or any issue, the Chinese likely will be successful in their efforts.
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It's obvious that the only way how the U.S. can save itself is to create a nationwide firewall that would protect it from all the outside enemies. The name "Great wall" is unfortunately already taken, so I suppose we should call it "Wall of freedom". It will protect the citizens from all dangerous information they should not be exposed to according to the rules defined by the Ministry of Love.
"US Hack attacks" and US based Hack Attacks are two separate things, and it's an important clarification.
SO less then 50,000 attacks, all of last year from computers reporting to be from the US.
I mean, people need to stop, and I don't want to excuse it, but lets not get; crazy in the head about this.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
It would have been nicer if he had the balls to say it BEFORE it already started happening. Or even answered Russia request to help the transition.
Worst. President. Ever.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Reagan would've just funneled arms to China through Israel to bribe them to stop. Then, made a half-assed ambiguous apology on national TV when he was caught.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Where every portsniffer looking for an unsecured home Windows box is counted as a "hack attack".
Remember, hackers have been refused phone access in case they whistle a crack down the phone and take out government computers.
to find that hacking has been going on here.
The next thing you know, China will be complaining about their companies outsourcing manufacturing to the US for cheap labor rates.
I'm always surprised that people are STILL butthurt over Reagan, which is why thirty years from now you'll still be crowing "It's Bush's fault".
If Chinese checked their state forestry administration (SFA) web servers my guess they will see the same patterns of "attacks". e.g. random scans from botnets.
There is a real problem with definition what constitutes an attack. We also routinely see US peeps in government and industry who should know better sit in front of congress and pop off scary specious figures to bend reality twoard their policy goals.
With all of these "we're being attacked" rumblings from government, warnings from Penetta and Sunday show rounds from former CIA's Hayden.. I expected to see some legislation... oh look SOPA is being reserrected.
> Such efforts are "not conducive to the joint efforts of the international community to enhance network security," he said.
Perhaps statements like "we're just defending ourselves" are not productive towards network security. But cyber-attacking China? China cyber-attacking the US? You must be kidding.
Even bacteria "know" that being attacked causes the greatest advances in defenses. What greater motivator can there be than an active and verifiable threat?
If you look at any attack map, it's clear the distribution mirrors that of the world-wide IP address distribution (much like many "maps" of "interesting" stuff really are just population density maps). In short, attackers spoof the source address randomly so an attacker that looks like it's from Spokane Washington is really a hacker in Shanghai. These Chinese accusations are based on faulty data; in reality they have no idea where the attacks originate.
The US, on the other hand, has NSA hardware installed at every ISP to track where the packets really come from.
I don't know what Reagan would do, I don't care, he's dead.
But we do need someone to point out that what China is doing is wrong, that they don't allow free speech, that they are horribly oppressing the Tibetans and other minorities, and that they are hurting the environment. Instead we get politicians who go to China and hope they will continue to trade with us if we ignore their human rights violations.
Would it be too much if once in a while, when he was talking about China anyway, he added something like, "China is still a pariah because they don't allow free speech?"
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
over 128 million ip address ONLINE and out there
total net users currently 2.4 billion
and i know thee are more im not saying.
Cry me a river, China. You've been hacking the world for years.
The US government's complaints were stupid because you know full well they do the same thing.
So what? Who cares? To all the lowbrows and halfwits who criticize the Chinese military for hacking the USA and elsewhere:
Evidently they are some deviants living in a cave, completely oblivious to the offshoring of all those jobs, all that technology, and all the investment to China, and Micro$oft opening their source code to them some years back, and Boeing's subsidiary, Narus, selling them the software to make it easier to arrest, torturne, incarcerate and/or execute the pro-democracy and rights activists in that country?
Blame Wall Street and Korporate ameriKa.
"American laws prohibit any action including hacking that damages Internet security." He added that "to accuse the American military of launching cyberattacks without solid proof is unprofessional and baseless."
Why do I picture a bunch of obese Americans throwing hash browns at some Chinese people??
"China is still a pariah because they don't allow free speech?"
So you're saying it's ok in the west to say the Jews exaggerated the Holocaust to cheat reparations from the Germans?
I believe this will land you in jail in Germany oddly enough.
A century ago the Chinese didn't have free speech, and millions of them died every year of starvation because they were too poor to buy food. Today they don't have free speech. China has over five thousand years of history, and this is the first period in all that time when portions (or all) of the country were not wracked by war, famine, or plagues. They'll get free speech eventually, just like they eventually got freedom from famines. Just because it's not on your externally-imposed timeline isn't actually a problem to the Chinese, they don't really give a shit what outsiders think.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
they don't really give a shit what outsiders think.
Believe it or not, they do.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Wow, I never knew that China has been communist for 5,000 years. Amazing the things you learn on SlashDot.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
You're clearly in the bottom half of the people mentioned in your sig, but the point is, the Chinese people should be free to choose what kind of government they want. It shouldn't be imposed on them by the ruling class and the princelings. Without freedom of speech, they will not be able to do that. This isn't a cultural problem.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Without freedom of speech, they will not be able to do that.
So you're saying it's ok in the west to say the Jews exaggerated the Holocaust to cheat reparations from the Germans?
I believe this will land you in jail in Germany oddly enough.
You think those depraved krauts are up to no good again?
When you realize WHY the Germans don't have freedom of speech, you will understand why freedom of speech is so important (hint: it wasn't to help them choose their own government).
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
It shouldn't be imposed on them by foreigners, either. Western-style democracy is not the universal and unique solution to every situation everywhere. It IS a cultural problem, at least in that their culture has never, in fifty centuries, allowed the free expression of speech and ideas to the majority. The majority don't expect it as a 'right' the way that we do, the idea that one can speak truth to power is still viewed with suspicion by many. It's as new to their culture as the idea of granting homosexuals equal rights is to ours.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
What part about my post made you think I wanted to impose anything on anyone?
Also, is your point really that they haven't had freedom of speech for 5,000 years, so they can't handle it now?
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
So you are admitting one of our great allies the Germans have no freedom of speech?
Perhaps your outrage should be directed at our so called "friends" ahead of competition like China?
When you realize WHY the Germans don't have freedom of speech
Umm, so WHAT is this reason?
So you are admitting one of our great allies the Germans have no freedom of speech?
Yes, and for good reason.
Umm, so WHAT is this reason?
Go find out, and get wiser. Or don't, and remain ignorant.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
So you are admitting one of our great allies the Germans have no freedom of speech?
Yes, and for good reason.
Nice! So why isn't Germany a "pariah"?
Umm, so WHAT is this reason?
Go find out, and get wiser. Or don't, and remain ignorant.
But I have no problems with the Germans.
It is you who is making the accusation without presenting facts.
Go dig up your reason and get credible. Or don't, and remain a poser.
All your questions would be answered if you read a history book. But you didn't. So you remain ignorant.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Ah, but I read the history books. So you remain a poser.
And yet there is a reason that Germany doesn't have freedom of speech. Whether I am a poser or not, you are ignorant.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Ah but whether I'm ignorant or not, you are a poser.
But let's go with your assertions without substantiation for the time being.
You are saying freedom of speech can be trampled on for cause.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but being conveniently selective about your convictions, doesn't that make you a smelly hypocrite?
Oh I can see why you're so reluctant to divulge your great wisdom now.
I don't mind being a poser. I do mind being ignorant.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
{^_^}
Sorry, that was an assumption in my part, normally when someone posts about the lack of free speech somewhere they follow up with claims that democracy has to be implemented as well. A lot of people don't seem to be able to separate the two ideas.
Can't handle it? Not what I was implying at all. It's just not as important to the majority of Chinese people, because they haven't been brought up to see it as an explicit right they were born with. It will happen there eventually (probably as the current generation of children come of age), but it will be on their timeline, not ours.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
Nah, free speech is important, because if the people don't know what they have and what is possible, then they can't decide for themselves.
America should encourage democracy, but only with words; American diplomacy is strongest when it leads with words and ideas rather than force. Hard to promote freedom by conquering countries.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
I don't mind being a poser
Admitting your problem is the first step to a solution. Bravo!
Unfortunately you have proven to be also ignorant (your reply time went from 12min to 66min...that's like 6min per word phantomfive! I had though you gave up and went to bed).
And of course, we have demonstrated that you are a two faced hypocrite.
I run a small data center. We're attacked several thousand times a day. We have a honeypot that records whodunit and iptable blackhole the offending addresses within a minute of an attack. However just before we become invisible we also blast back with "nmap -P0 -v -f -O $1" which should wake up any sysadmin on the other end. The ip addresses are spread all over the world with about 30% coming from the US, 10% from South America, 20% from Eastern Europe and 35% from China with a smattering of Vietnam and Indonesia. The most persistent attacks (where three or more [as many as 10] IP addresses simultaneously attack one of our servers) come from Eastern Europe and China.
I personally would love to see someone big release the IP addresses of the offending hosts so that the rest of the world can DDOS them. I've threatened to blackhole all of China but my boss thinks that's a bad idea. DISCLAIMER: my father was an American Businessman in China when the Commies took over. He lost a lot of money so I have no great love for the Chinese government. They are not our friends and they are very close to being mortal enemies.
This is typical political BS so prevalent in the US. When the Dems blame the Republicans for some issue, the Republicans say the Dems do it too. That's regardless of whether either statement was true or not. The point is to deflect blame and raise suspicion of the other side. Further, since we can't trust the media to actually dig into the actual truth on this or any issue, the Chinese likely will be successful in their efforts.
The best defense is a good offense, after all.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
This is typical political BS so prevalent in the US. When the Dems blame the Republicans for some issue, the Republicans say the Dems do it too. That's regardless of whether either statement was true or not. The point is to deflect blame and raise suspicion of the other side.
Further, since we can't trust the media to actually dig into the actual truth on this or any issue, the Chinese likely will be successful in their efforts.
You are naive is you think that the USA is sitting around with their hands in their pockets. Of course they are doing exactly what the Chinese are doing, as is every major power.
I spy on a dozen countries, and each of them spies on their dozen. Somehow it seems to always be the same dozen.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
We have to break into their systems. How else are we going to figure out what they've stolen from us?
As a person who keeps an eye on the packets arriving at my Internet server, I see the majority of the systematic attempts to crack my sshd server coming from China.. There are other sources to be sure. I have emailed the admin contacts for the domains from which the attacks originate, and I have not received back a single email from an admin that was concerned about the behavior of their customers. This means to me that the admins either don't care, or are part of the problem. I don't want to just block all IP traffic because there are legitimate humans, students, and researches that I would like to be able to contact and whom I would like to receive email from. "Methinks they doth protest to strongly".
Are you ever going to figure out why Germany doesn't have freedom of speech, or are you going to just keep babbling?
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
As a public service, I'll try to make this as simple as possible, since you are too stupid to figure it out.
Write this down: You are the only party babbling here.
Are you ever going to figure out why Germany doesn't have freedom of speech
Again, since you are too stupid to figure it out, we don't need "why" to show that you're a hypocrite.
And since you are so stupid, the reason why Germany doesn't have free speech is similar to the reason China doesn't have free speech. Can you figure out why?
Heh, your post in ignorance is quite entertaining. Please, continue to entertain me.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Well that was fast, good to see you are attentive.
Considering that we have proven that you are a hypocrite, and not too swift cerebrally, and by your own admission you are a poser, I think it's the least that we can do to educate (and entertain) the under-privileged like yourself.
Yes, keep it up. Or alternately educate yourself.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Aww comon, where's the gratitude poserfive?
gratitude for what?
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
gratitude for what?
Oh sorry, I forgot you're not too bright.
Nope, I'm not bright. Just knowledgeable.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Nope, I'm not bright. Just knowledgeable.
Translation: duh I know 1+1=2, but I don't know why.
lol yes, but continuing your analogy, you don't even know what 1+1 is. So I win.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
but continuing your analogy, you don't even know what 1 is. So I win.