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Sunstone Unearthed From Sixteenth Century Shipwreck
sciencehabit writes "In 1592, a British ship sank near the island of Alderney in the English Channel carrying an odd piece of cargo: a small, angular crystal. Once it was brought back to land, a few European scientists began to suspect the mysterious object might be a calcite crystal, a powerful 'sunstone' referred to in Norse legends which they believe Vikings and other European seafarers used to navigate before the introduction of the magnetic compass. Now, after subjecting the object to a battery of mechanical and chemical tests, the team has determined that the Alderman crystal is indeed a calcite and, therefore, could have been the ship's optical compass. Today, similar calcite crystals are used by astronomers to analyze the atmospheres of exoplanets—perhaps setting the stage for a whole new age of exploration."
I hope when it was unearthed the finder said something like "By Odin's Beard! Tis the SUNSTONE that was foretold in the prophecy!"
At least that's what I would have done. 3
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
I hope that by "battery of mechanical and chemical tests", they meant "showed it to a geologist for five minutes". There are a number of minerals which can mimic calcite to the untrained eye, but they're easy for the specialist to distinguish.
In a discussion I had with a friend the other day about how did Vikings navigate? Mostly poor weather (no star sightings) and very close to magnetic north pole (compass is useless), or they only traveled part of year when weather was not really bad. One story I heard is they used pressure as a means of navigation. Huh? don't ask me, that is what someone else said. But since that was 1000 years ago, that knowledge is lost so all we have is speculation. Interesting to consider What If... they continued further south and settled in sunny Florida?
In the book "From Vinland To Mars" published in 1970s it said many Scandinavian men were "landless sons" since first born son inherits the land, and there is not much farmable real estate in those areas. So these landless sons don't have much career opportunity except join the Viking Navy and plunder rest of Europe but there was also motivation to go west to find other places to settle.
mfwright@batnet.com
Hello
When I first saw the headline, I thought it was going to be a fossilized bioluminescent sunstone from H. Beam Piper's Little Fuzzy series of science fiction stories.
Still, a fascinating read, albeit not one as exciting as if H. Beam Piper's fictional sunstones had been found to exist in real life.
Regards,
Aryeh Goretsky
Dexter is a good dog.
Don't give it to Taban. He'll make shitty prism specs.
Since there appears to be at least two markets for calcite crystals, Astronomers, and I would expect the re-enactment community, I wonder if there is a means of creating either the variety needed by astronomers, or people interested in re-enacting voyages of vikings or others.
I would suspect that creating them would be potentially less difficult than creating man-made diamonds, but I haven't checked.
You never know...
I read about this a while ago, and it was fascinating. Appartently, the crystals polarized sunlight, even if it was through clouds and
Here are some links that may help:
The stone itself is calcite, Iceland Spar or the more complex Cordierite, also known as iolite.
Here is one account of how it could have been used:
Viking Sunstone
And here is another:
Viking Compass
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I've read that Bees also use polarized sunlight to navigate.
By the time you get to 1767, we're definitely leaning more toward "technology" (Though I didn't see this particular one mentioned in said document.) The math and devices are pretty well understood and the methods are shared openly. I'm sure I could find earlier documents if I were inclined to dig around a bit. This one actually popped up on a search for... something else I was looking for. Needless to say, I immediately decided I wanted to be a member of the Order of the Commissioners of Longitude. If they let me in I promise I'll sit in the back and be very quiet...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Now I can get my Sunkern to evolve!
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Yes, but he does need to be in a foreign country to be hit that way. I assume an Indian reservation is close enough.
An Indian reservation? That's when they hold a seat for you at the nearest curry house?
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Guard it closely...
The Mayan apocalypse, the sequester, and the zombie apocalypse all put together, are a walk in the park, compared to a dark wizard getting ahold of the Sunstone, and casting away the light...
How do they work?
...Or is anybody else feeling all "questy"?
"Freedom Through Vigilance"
Actually, I'm kind of wondering how something on a shipwreck could be "unearthed"
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Yes, but he does need to be in a foreign country to be hit that way
Negative.
In 1592?
I suppose it makes sense as in, "from the island of Britain as opposed to the continent or one of the smaller islands".
Still, odd usage.
Surely there was some clue as to the origin of the boat?
I personally never knew the Vikings had this optical compass thing going, but I see interesting possible ties to the Polynesians.
I spent about 20 years in the jewelry industry and I learned that calcite, at one time, was often mistaken for Diamonds. Calcite deposits are what gives Diamond Head in Hawaii it's name. The calcite was mistaken for Diamonds.
I wonder what the possibilities are that Polynesians used "Sun Stone" compasses to help find their way around the Pacific?
Just a few days ago the new TV series "Vikings" started and they happened to feature a sunstone.. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2306299/
Well timed I'd say!
In case you missed it I'm sure it can be found at a certain viking torrent site.. ;) [which I don't condone of course]
This hunt for "how did the vikings navigate?" has alway made me wonder just why they actually must have had some device for it...
* The Baltic Sea is quite an excellent playground to learn how to navigate without tools (the sea will kill you if you fail to respect it, but it also has the property of that if you sail carefully you are never more than about a day and a half from land)
* As far north as nor/swe/fin one becomes very aware of where the sun are and for how long it is up (the natural ability to keep track of time)
* Navigating by the sun whilst on land is very natural that far north and also gives a feel for being able to tell direction even when at sea
* Also, a low sun has quite a few interesting properties when hitting water (be it reflection from the sea, how the tint of the waves changes, how mist gets a "halo") that is very noticable when not blinded by strong sun constantly
* Also, that far north at a few months of the year there are less then five-six hours of night per day, so just going by the sun and every day keep recalibrating at noon would give you the sun to go by most of the time (for the few times when cloudy enough that you can't see where the sun is when looking directly at it - see the point above)
* Island-hopping between nordics -> scotland -> faroe islands -> iceland -> greenland -> N.America would rarely keep you out of sight from land for more than a few days
So, my question is: when as far north as this is it really necessary to use a compass or similar when you basically can train navigators to get the right "feel" in a safe playground? And for that matter - Would there ever be a need for more advanced navigation than just good sense?
I misread that headline at first as:
Smartphone Unearthed From Sixteenth Century Shipwreck
ought to be examined as an instance of what-not-to-do technology. I'll believe this is a navigation device when I see one on a FLOATING ship.
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
This is the kind of story that brings me to /.
Less politics, more nerd stuff
Great quote, I'd mod you up but I already posted to this forum.
mfwright@batnet.com