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Microsoft Creative Director 'Doesn't Get' Always-On DRM Concerns

New submitter SoVi3t points out comments from Microsoft Studios Creative Director Adam Orth about the debate over always-online DRM, brought to the fore recently by the disastrous launch of SimCity and rumors that the next-gen Xbox console will require it. "Don't want a gaming console that requires a persistent internet connection? 'Deal with it,' says Microsoft Studio's creative director. In what he later termed a 'fun lunch break,' Orth took to Twitter to express his shock at people who take umbrage with the idea of an always-on console. When quizzed by other Twitter users about people with no internet connection, he suggested that they should get one, as it is 'awesome.' He then likened people who worry about intermittent internet connectivity being an issue as the same as someone not buying a vacuum cleaner because the electricity sometimes goes out. While Orth later apologized, saying it had being a bit of banter with friends, it did raise awareness that there are more than a few people who are very unhappy with the possibility of an always-on future version of the Xbox. Orth has also now switched his Twitter account settings to private."

28 of 572 comments (clear)

  1. Better answer by Endo13 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Don't want a gaming console that requires a persistent internet connection? Don't get one!

    --
    There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
    1. Re:Better answer by jewens · · Score: 5, Funny

      Maybe he is auditioning for head writer on the soon to be released Sony PS4 ad campaign?

      --
      That group of bovine standing over there appears quite portentous. That's right it's an ominous cow herd.
    2. Re:Better answer by ByOhTek · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I know that's what I'll do.

      He then likened people who worry about intermittent internet connectivity being an issue as the same as someone not buying a vacuum cleaner because the electricity sometimes goes out.

      This guy is proof that you can be a retard and still get into high positions in the corporate world.

      (1) A vacuum cleaner is almost a necessity, a console is a luxury. While there are other ways to clean a carpet, they are generally much more effort intensive.
      (2) you don't lose your state when the electricity goes out, with a vacuum.
      (3) electric is less prone to flicker than internet connection, if nothing else, because a flicker of electric will not cause the same for the internet. Excepting with UPSes, but these aren't exactly ubiquitous.
      (4) many people travel, and bring their consoles with them... They don't always get to bring an internet connection.

      Even if there were no other issues with DRM, this addition would provide enough to make it a deal-breaker for many.
      You can stick your always on DRMed XBox720 up your ass. Sideways. After adding spikes.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    3. Re:Better answer by ByOhTek · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I doubt it will be any better of a selling point when Sony does it than when MS does it...

      And if you think Sony won't... do you remember the last time Sony had a chance to screw their customers for profit and control, with a reasonable (or even only slight) chance of success, and DIDN'T take it? Neither do I.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    4. Re:Better answer by Xeth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Five years from now, just two categories of game will be made: Multi-player for consoles, solo (with multi-player functionality) for mobile devices.

      I wouldn't be surprised if some of the "gaming by the numbers" studios and publishers move that way. But I can guarantee that the people pouring millions of dollars into independent Kickstarter and greenlight games, and getting DRM-free software written by devs who care in return, will still be doing it in five years.

      --
      If your theory is different from practice, then your theory is wrong.
    5. Re:Better answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Pretty sure Sony was quoted shortly after the announcement that (paraphrasing) "We know there are people out there that don't want to be social or online all the time. We're listening, and the console does not require an internet connection to function. It only requires the connection if you want to go online, which we really hope you will."

    6. Re:Better answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bullshit. If gamers will put up with generation after generation of faulty hardware, and paid online services (as if a console is an MMO), they'll eat always-on DRM with a smile on their dumb little faces. Anything for Halo of War Duty VII, where they can share screams and racial insults with their prepubescent peers.

    7. Re:Better answer by cnaumann · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You missed the main failure of the analogy. A vacuum cleaner requires electricity. Anybody can generate that electricity. It does not require special electricty from the Hoover Corporation's electricity server. It would not be illegal to modify your vacuum cleaner to work off of batteries or a portable generators.

      It is not the Internet connection part that bothers me. It is the long-term availability of the DRM servers and the control that they have over my purchases, long after the sale.

    8. Re:Better answer by Pi1grim · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Gabe will applaud this move and remind people that there is offline mode for quite a fair share of Steam games and will be glad to sell a console that will double as a generic PC with linux under hood.
      Also trying to inconvenience the users is not the best selling strategy. Given choice, I'd rather get a console that does not require me to be always online (hint: what do you do when the internet is out?)
      Also, vacuum analogy is pretty shitty. I wouldn't buy a vacuum that only functions when internet is on. Single-player games don't need internet connectivity all the time - so artificial inconvenience for customers will make pirated copies all the more popular. Choosing between a free copy that doesn't require internet connection to play and a rather expencive one, that doesn't is a no-brainer.

    9. Re:Better answer by TheCarp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Better but not quite right.

      The vacuume cleaner needs electricity.... to service my needs. I need it to suck shit up off the floor, I give it electricity, it does that.

      In this case, what is the "always on" doing for the consumer? The owner of the device?

      Its restricting him, its making requirments of him, what is is doing FOR him? Being ABLE to connect to the internet is one thing, being required is another entirely, and I would submit whats really wrong about this is simple: The requirement is not for the benefit of the user.

      If my XBox breaks, warranty aside, I own it. M$ wont be replacing it. Nowhere on the sales slip does it indicate the xbox is a rental. Its something the user buys. Everything it requires to work, should be what is required for HIS benefit SOLELY.

      Otherwise, it is a trojan.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    10. Re:Better answer by ArhcAngel · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Most people don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?" - Thomas Hesse (Sony BMG's president of global digital business 2005)

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    11. Re:Better answer by zlives · · Score: 5, Funny

      if its a legitimate rootkit...
      sorry couldn't resist

    12. Re:Better answer by cyberfunkr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Hi, this is the Microsoft Vacuum Inspection Division. I see you're trying to turn on your vacuum. Let me just double check to make sure everything is in order."

      "Oh? That's cool. So you're looking for defects, making sure that my device is going to give me a great experience?"

      "Ah... yeah... no. That's not what we do."

      "Oh. Well then you're going to double check the settings to make sure that I'm not using the wood floor setting on my shag rug, right?"

      "Not so much."

      "Are you at least going to make sure that the filter is installed correctly and warn me that it needs replacing?"

      "No, but we will make sure that you're using official Microsoft Filters. Use of any other brand will void your warranty and cause the vacuum to overheat and burn a red ring into your carpet."

      "I see. Well, speaking of carpet, I had to change out the wheels because the default wheels keep getting snagged on my rug. But I figure, I'm only vacuuming my own rug so it's no big deal."

      "Oh? Is that so? Guess we're done here."

      "Thanks for stopping by! Time to get back to... Hey... How come my vacuum doesn't work any more? I can turn it on, but nothing is getting clean."

      "Since you modified the vacuum, that would give an unfair advantage to your abilities, so we had to stop you from using your vacuum."

      "Unfair advantage? I'm cleaning my house. My own house! What does that give me an advantage over?"

      "I'm sorry but we need to make sure that all customers of the SuckBox 720 have the same experience. Allowing you to use yours would cause problems if you ever vacuumed with your friends."

      "Vacuumed with..? You really think I'm going to bring this to a friends house and have a race of who can do suck dirt better?"

      "Sorry, but your vacuum is equipped with an Always-On Dirt Regulator Mechanism to prevent tampering so Microsoft can monitor vacuums to make sure no one is cheating or trying to give a bad experience to other owners."

      "How do I cheat at vacuuming? And it's just MY OWN F'N CARPET! Who cares how I do it? Fine. I'll put the old wheels back."

      "Sorry. But your vacuum has been marked as banned and will never work on our system again. If you wish to purchase a new vacuum, we will allow you get back on-line. However, we also flagged your registration information, and the credit card used to buy the vacuum. You'll have to register under a different name and use a different credit card or your new vacuum will be deactivated also."

      "Hello, big name electronics store? I'd like to order a DysonStation 4..."

  2. Not surprising by sunderland56 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft has a very long history of not understanding what customers want.

  3. Yep, Like a Vacuum Cleaner by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He then likened people who worry about intermittent internet connectivity being an issue as the same as someone not buying a vacuum cleaner because the electricity sometimes goes out.

    So if we were to fulfill that analogy you would have to expect there are vacuum cleaners that already exist that run without electricity -- as almost all the games I own run without an internet connection. Now, a new vacuum cleaner comes out but it is required to always be plugged into the wall and it will only work if it is connected to a service that costs me a monthly payment. Correct, I would not buy this "new" vacuum cleaner as I have tons of old vacuums that somehow manage to get the job done without the need of electricity.

    Unsurprisingly I have purchased none of these always-on for the sake of DRM games.

    You're introducing a feature that none of your customers want -- a feature that complicates a product and causes them inconvenience for unclear benefits to you. A feature that introduces a new dependency and more moving parts to run the game. And how are you surprised, exactly, that there are many people upset about this?

    --
    My work here is dung.
  4. When quizzed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    "When quizzed by other Twitter users about people with no internet connection, he suggested that they should get one"

    "When quizzed by the Microsoft Studio's creative director about clues, other Twitter users suggested that he should get one"

  5. Really? by LinuxFreakus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What's so hard to understand? I like to have a games on my laptop or other device which I can play on an airplane, on the commuter rail, on a camping trip, etc... there are many times where I play games and do not have reliable internet... not to mention the potential security flaws which may exist in the networking code of said games which could compromise my devices. Maybe some people don't want to be online all the time. No?

  6. That explains it by scotts13 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    See, I've always expected people like this don't ignore our concerns, they just can't comprehend we HAVE concerns. "I don't understand why you're all 'Argh, I'm starving!' Why don't you just get some food?"

    1. Re:That explains it by CanHasDIY · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ah, yes, the 'Marie Antoinette Allegory.'

      Hopefully with a similar ending...

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  7. Servers are not eternal by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 5, Informative

    Sooner or later every server is shut down. When the DRM server goes down, I'll be unable to use the console and the games for which I paid a expensive price? No thanks.

    --
    Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    1. Re:Servers are not eternal by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That is true, but this situation is even more perverse. They now not only have to pay to keep the server running but the second the next version of the console/game ships they have a direct incentive to kill off the old DRM server. So not only can they deprive you of your game, but they have an incentive to do so to get you to upgrade on their schedule not yours.

  8. It works both ways... by Kelerei · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To turn the article title around: "Gaming Console Users 'Doesn't Get' Always-On DRM Requirements". And based on the SimCity launch (there's been other examples, but this one is, in my opinion, the proverbial straw breaking the camel's back), this has been the reality for a long time.

    Adam Orth has quite possibly done a fair bit of irreversible damage for the next-gen XBox's prospects.

  9. "Deal with it" by JDG1980 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is why Microsoft is losing market share and why so many analysts are worried about the company's long-term future. "Deal with it" seems to be Microsoft's mantra not just in the console market, but with Windows as well. They let their employees' pride and stubbornness override basic business considerations. Metro must be shoved down everyone's throat, even if not a single desktop user wants it. Because if they backed down, then the people who worked on Metro would feel bad, and we can't have that, can we? The thing is, Microsoft can no longer get away with this kind of behavior. They're being pressured in the consumer space by tablets and smartphones and in the business space by evangelists of "the cloud". Just as Windows started out as a toy and then grew to dominate the market, we may see the same thing happen with Android – especially since, as an open-source product, anyone (not just Google) can take it in the direction they see fit.

    Orth, Ballmer, and those who think like them are soon going to figure out that "deal with it" isn't an acceptable answer when you're trying to get people to buy your stuff.

  10. Dismissing complaints is very bad policy by 91degrees · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Whilst the customer isn't always always right, in this situation, the customer is. The customer doesn't want an always on connection. This applies to a lot of potential customers. Telling the customer they're wrong isn't going to make the customer change his mind. It's going to result in the customer not being a customer any more.

  11. The thing with these people ... by MacTO · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There are two things that bias the perspective of these business men.

    The first is that they look at business models rather than what the consumers want, and try to shape the consumer to meet the needs of their business model. Their main interest, after all, is to make money. The best way to make money, reliably, is to have a plan and execute it. Selling a product without a plan is suicidal, particularly for large businesses that need to coordinate within their own structure and with third party developers and suppliers.

    The second issue is that these business people know what their lives and interests are like, but they rarely understand the market as a whole. They have reliable high-speed internet because it is a function of their job, their lifestyle, and their income. They fail to consider that some people buy consoles because they live in rural locations and don't always have access to other forms of entertainment (or reliable, high-speed internet for that matter). They fail to realize that some people buy consoles because it is a relatively cheap form of entertainment, and may not be able to afford reliable high-speed internet. If the motivation is to kill off the second-hand game market, they fail to realize that even the big spenders use that to offset the cost of their entertainment. And that's just the stuff that would be easy for them to understand, because it is quantifiable. What about the stuff that is harder for them to understand because it isn't quantifiable, like privacy?

  12. Another "best and brightest" without a clue by smooth+wombat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    people with no internet connection, he suggested that they should get one, as it is 'awesome.'

    Just because you make $100K+/year and live in an area which has decent broadband doesn't mean the rest of world does. When you make $40K/year, have a mortgage payment, maybe a kid or two, car loans, maybe student loans, having to pay anywhere from $70/month or higher for slow broadband is not high on ones priority.

    This dismissive attitude, "I have it so it must be the best thing in the world!" is symptomatic of the tech culture. People who are glued to their screens as they check their Twitter feeds every ten seconds, Facebook updates every 30, and can't wait to stand in line for the latest and greatest gadget which will works .01% faster than the last gadget you bought six months ago, live in a wonderland world. They have no clue, nor understanding, of people who don't care one wit about tweeting their latest shit or posting their latest cute puppy picture.

    It may be hard for those who are heavy tech users to understand, but there are large and vast numbers of people on this planet who don't give a flying fuck about what you're doing. Certainly some are technophobic, but a large portion of those people just don't care. The treadmill of upgrading equipment, having to figure out how to use the latest and greatest piece of crapware that some developer, or company, thought was the be all and end all, the relentless drone of having to be always connected or you're not living life to its fullest, doesn't appeal to them. They want to know: how is this useful to them (aside from online banking or research), yet no one can give them a good answer.

    The usual response is something along the lines of, "You can keep in contact with your friends!" or, "You can find out where to eat before you get to some place." I guess it never occurs to people who have grown up on the pablum of technology that if one wants to communicate with friends they don't need to tweet, "We're coming over in 10 minutes! LOL" to communicate. A simple phone call or prearranged meeting is all that is necessary.

    Further, one doesn't have to plan out where they're going to eat when they visit a place. Exploring can be fun in and of itself. Besides, if one wants to know where to eat, they can ask someone at a gas station or on the street. Granted, this means having to TALK to a LIVE HUMAN BEING, but that is one of the dangers we all must navigate.

    If you don't get why people may not have an internet connection, let alone broadband, Mr. Orth, then that says all one needs to know about you and your company. You live in a fantasy land with only the barest of tendrils touching reality. Your deluded sense of self-importance is a shining example of what is wrong in tech, yet its lesson will go unheeded because if you're not connected, if you don't have the latest and greatest gadget, if you're not spending every waking moment staring at 3" screen, then you're a loser, right Mr. Orth?

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
  13. Re:microsoft should make by Bert64 · · Score: 5, Funny

    The Microsoft vacuum cleaner, the first Microsoft product that doesn't suck.

    --
    http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
  14. License vs owning(License should be cheaper) by duckgod · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For me when DRM(especially Always-On) gets involved I no longer own the game. I am just licensing the game. The company may take away my license at any time.

    I don't mind licensing a game. But lets get it straight that in no way shape or form should I be expected to pay the same amount for a license of a game and a copy of the game which I can do whatever I want with. I think this is why Steam has had so much success is because I often feel like their prices are taking this concept into thought.