Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Creative Director 'Doesn't Get' Always-On DRM Concerns
New submitter SoVi3t points out comments from Microsoft Studios Creative Director Adam Orth about the debate over always-online DRM, brought to the fore recently by the disastrous launch of SimCity and rumors that the next-gen Xbox console will require it.
"Don't want a gaming console that requires a persistent internet connection? 'Deal with it,' says Microsoft Studio's creative director. In what he later termed a 'fun lunch break,' Orth took to Twitter to express his shock at people who take umbrage with the idea of an always-on console. When quizzed by other Twitter users about people with no internet connection, he suggested that they should get one, as it is 'awesome.' He then likened people who worry about intermittent internet connectivity being an issue as the same as someone not buying a vacuum cleaner because the electricity sometimes goes out. While Orth later apologized, saying it had being a bit of banter with friends, it did raise awareness that there are more than a few people who are very unhappy with the possibility of an always-on future version of the Xbox. Orth has also now switched his Twitter account settings to private."
Don't want a gaming console that requires a persistent internet connection? Don't get one!
There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
Microsoft has a very long history of not understanding what customers want.
He then likened people who worry about intermittent internet connectivity being an issue as the same as someone not buying a vacuum cleaner because the electricity sometimes goes out.
So if we were to fulfill that analogy you would have to expect there are vacuum cleaners that already exist that run without electricity -- as almost all the games I own run without an internet connection. Now, a new vacuum cleaner comes out but it is required to always be plugged into the wall and it will only work if it is connected to a service that costs me a monthly payment. Correct, I would not buy this "new" vacuum cleaner as I have tons of old vacuums that somehow manage to get the job done without the need of electricity.
Unsurprisingly I have purchased none of these always-on for the sake of DRM games.
You're introducing a feature that none of your customers want -- a feature that complicates a product and causes them inconvenience for unclear benefits to you. A feature that introduces a new dependency and more moving parts to run the game. And how are you surprised, exactly, that there are many people upset about this?
My work here is dung.
nuf said
"When quizzed by other Twitter users about people with no internet connection, he suggested that they should get one"
"When quizzed by the Microsoft Studio's creative director about clues, other Twitter users suggested that he should get one"
What's so hard to understand? I like to have a games on my laptop or other device which I can play on an airplane, on the commuter rail, on a camping trip, etc... there are many times where I play games and do not have reliable internet... not to mention the potential security flaws which may exist in the networking code of said games which could compromise my devices. Maybe some people don't want to be online all the time. No?
See, I've always expected people like this don't ignore our concerns, they just can't comprehend we HAVE concerns. "I don't understand why you're all 'Argh, I'm starving!' Why don't you just get some food?"
Sooner or later every server is shut down. When the DRM server goes down, I'll be unable to use the console and the games for which I paid a expensive price? No thanks.
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
To turn the article title around: "Gaming Console Users 'Doesn't Get' Always-On DRM Requirements". And based on the SimCity launch (there's been other examples, but this one is, in my opinion, the proverbial straw breaking the camel's back), this has been the reality for a long time.
Adam Orth has quite possibly done a fair bit of irreversible damage for the next-gen XBox's prospects.
This is why Microsoft is losing market share and why so many analysts are worried about the company's long-term future. "Deal with it" seems to be Microsoft's mantra not just in the console market, but with Windows as well. They let their employees' pride and stubbornness override basic business considerations. Metro must be shoved down everyone's throat, even if not a single desktop user wants it. Because if they backed down, then the people who worked on Metro would feel bad, and we can't have that, can we? The thing is, Microsoft can no longer get away with this kind of behavior. They're being pressured in the consumer space by tablets and smartphones and in the business space by evangelists of "the cloud". Just as Windows started out as a toy and then grew to dominate the market, we may see the same thing happen with Android – especially since, as an open-source product, anyone (not just Google) can take it in the direction they see fit.
Orth, Ballmer, and those who think like them are soon going to figure out that "deal with it" isn't an acceptable answer when you're trying to get people to buy your stuff.
Microsoft is an abuse company that makes software and now game consoles. Of course they would continue to offer the level of abuse they are known for on the console, that is what they do. People need to realize the software and hardware are just tools that let microsoft sell its real product, abuse.
The issue is not "intermittent Internet connectivity." Most of the people who are spun up on this are concerned about the principle of always-on DRM in general. Even if people had an iron-clad agreement with their ISP that they would provide them with five-nines uptime on my WAN connection, it doesn't change the basic principle that lots of people are miffed that their Internet connection is being used on a 24-hour basis to demonstrate that they are, in fact, not thieves.
Of course, this doesn't even address the fact that the most reliable Internet connection in the world is completely useless if the server(s) that you're attempting to connect to are down due to incompetence, unanticipated demand, DDoS attacks, etc.
We're going down, in a spiral to the ground
Whilst the customer isn't always always right, in this situation, the customer is. The customer doesn't want an always on connection. This applies to a lot of potential customers. Telling the customer they're wrong isn't going to make the customer change his mind. It's going to result in the customer not being a customer any more.
"Let them eat cake." -Attributed to M. Antoinette and Adam Orth
"The cake is a lie." -Attributed to some poor bastard trying to get cake, and anyone dealing with always on DRM.
Screw you Mr Orth, but it does look like you are choking on a gob of twitter frosting.
Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
http://i.imgur.com/IWPsqOR.png
This is the shot I saw of some of his comments that was posted on Reddit. He seems to be rather out of touch.
Not sure if this one is real (the above I feel pretty confident is untouched) but found it funny:
http://i.imgur.com/rixjoS6.jpg
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
... or (maybe more up his creek) take a nice trip island-hopping in the Caribbean in a sailboat without satellite connection.
... Oh, DRM!
Either place may lack a proper, always-on Internet connection, but why should that stop the people from enjoying a game on their console?
I want to know on what planet - or alternate reality - Adam Orth lives. Because many things on my planet does not need to be "always on", and under no circumstances I can assume that I will always have a internet connection available.
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
...for your next-gen gaming console that requires a persistent internet connection? Deal with it.
The only games I have and will ever have that require an internet connection are MMOs, because, well, that's the point.
As a long term Xbox user, I can safely say that between the need for an always on connection plus the blocking of 2nd hand games AND the increase of per game costs forecast, I'm not going to be buying their next gen Xbox any time soon if at all. I love the 360 but whatever the 720 gets called is a huge turn off for me because of these issues.
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
There are two things that bias the perspective of these business men.
The first is that they look at business models rather than what the consumers want, and try to shape the consumer to meet the needs of their business model. Their main interest, after all, is to make money. The best way to make money, reliably, is to have a plan and execute it. Selling a product without a plan is suicidal, particularly for large businesses that need to coordinate within their own structure and with third party developers and suppliers.
The second issue is that these business people know what their lives and interests are like, but they rarely understand the market as a whole. They have reliable high-speed internet because it is a function of their job, their lifestyle, and their income. They fail to consider that some people buy consoles because they live in rural locations and don't always have access to other forms of entertainment (or reliable, high-speed internet for that matter). They fail to realize that some people buy consoles because it is a relatively cheap form of entertainment, and may not be able to afford reliable high-speed internet. If the motivation is to kill off the second-hand game market, they fail to realize that even the big spenders use that to offset the cost of their entertainment. And that's just the stuff that would be easy for them to understand, because it is quantifiable. What about the stuff that is harder for them to understand because it isn't quantifiable, like privacy?
So to a person in a position of power at Microsoft, this is a very straightforward progression to tie the game experience into some kind of server-side authentication scheme
Coming up with some anecdotes about how SOME people don't have the luxury of an always on internet connection does not change this
I am not defending DRM, but I do believe the next step the console industry will take is widespread single-use codes to lock out used games on top of the line Titles (because of the success EA has had with it on Madden), and that always-on DRM is still a little ways off from being the industry standard for everything
It's more like deciding to not buy a particular new-fangled hammer because the electricity sometimes goes out.
Because, you see.... a hammer doesn't actually need electricity to perform its function... and designing one that does simply for its own sake is more than just slightly ... uhmmm... stupid.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
First, using the 'Gee golly shucks, that's just the way the world is' argument when you are part of making the world that way is a smarmy cop-out.
Sure, it is realistic and pragmatic to deal with conditions that are not within your power to change. However, if you change the conditions and then tell anybody who protests to just be realistic, that's the way it is, as though the matter is somehow one of historical inevitability, you are a shirking little weasel.
Second, during the exchange screenshotted here he responds to the "some people's internet goes out" argument with "Electricity goes out too". Yup, no shit. However(as I hope some MS datacenter or operations people will be willing to take him into the hot aisle and beat into him with spare rack rails) Downtime is additive. If somebody says "Downtime source A exists." the correct answer is not "Oh yeah? Downtime source B also exists!". That isn't a refutation, that's just a confirmation that your uptime will potentially suffer from at least two weak links, rather than just one. Every system-critical component you add is a component that can reduce your uptime. 'Always on', just means that MS' datacenter operations and the customer's ISPs are now system-critical components.
Third, has this guy taken a look at any market penetration numbers for wireline broadband vs. cell-only users and console vs. PC gaming in less connected and/or poorer areas? Whether he likes it or not, Gaming, especially console gaming, is now cheap entertainment(per hour). It also requires minimal technical aptitude or interest, and has historically had low costs of entry and relatively low and flexible ongoing costs. Having adequate wireline broadband, by contrast, tends to require the sort of steady income and financial footing that allows you to keep on good terms with the phone or cable company each month, every month. Is he trying to alienate everyone who has some disposable income and a desire for amusement; but not enough income(or at least not enough stability) for wireline broadband, a golden retriever, and a white picket fence in the suburbs?
I bought my vacuum cleaner more than 10 years ago and I don't have to worry that it will suddenly stop working because some mega corp flips a switch and says I can't use it any more. I fully expect it to work for another 10 or more years if I take care of it.
Good luck using an internet DRMed game that long after release. I certainly wouldn't buy a vacuum cleaner if it could stop working like one of these games. You have to be pretty stupid to even buy something DRMed like that, but the world is full of stupid exploitable people.
people with no internet connection, he suggested that they should get one, as it is 'awesome.'
.01% faster than the last gadget you bought six months ago, live in a wonderland world. They have no clue, nor understanding, of people who don't care one wit about tweeting their latest shit or posting their latest cute puppy picture.
Just because you make $100K+/year and live in an area which has decent broadband doesn't mean the rest of world does. When you make $40K/year, have a mortgage payment, maybe a kid or two, car loans, maybe student loans, having to pay anywhere from $70/month or higher for slow broadband is not high on ones priority.
This dismissive attitude, "I have it so it must be the best thing in the world!" is symptomatic of the tech culture. People who are glued to their screens as they check their Twitter feeds every ten seconds, Facebook updates every 30, and can't wait to stand in line for the latest and greatest gadget which will works
It may be hard for those who are heavy tech users to understand, but there are large and vast numbers of people on this planet who don't give a flying fuck about what you're doing. Certainly some are technophobic, but a large portion of those people just don't care. The treadmill of upgrading equipment, having to figure out how to use the latest and greatest piece of crapware that some developer, or company, thought was the be all and end all, the relentless drone of having to be always connected or you're not living life to its fullest, doesn't appeal to them. They want to know: how is this useful to them (aside from online banking or research), yet no one can give them a good answer.
The usual response is something along the lines of, "You can keep in contact with your friends!" or, "You can find out where to eat before you get to some place." I guess it never occurs to people who have grown up on the pablum of technology that if one wants to communicate with friends they don't need to tweet, "We're coming over in 10 minutes! LOL" to communicate. A simple phone call or prearranged meeting is all that is necessary.
Further, one doesn't have to plan out where they're going to eat when they visit a place. Exploring can be fun in and of itself. Besides, if one wants to know where to eat, they can ask someone at a gas station or on the street. Granted, this means having to TALK to a LIVE HUMAN BEING, but that is one of the dangers we all must navigate.
If you don't get why people may not have an internet connection, let alone broadband, Mr. Orth, then that says all one needs to know about you and your company. You live in a fantasy land with only the barest of tendrils touching reality. Your deluded sense of self-importance is a shining example of what is wrong in tech, yet its lesson will go unheeded because if you're not connected, if you don't have the latest and greatest gadget, if you're not spending every waking moment staring at 3" screen, then you're a loser, right Mr. Orth?
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
The Microsoft vacuum cleaner, the first Microsoft product that doesn't suck.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Is there a list of single player games that required some type of server connection but has been shut down since introduction? The closest thing I can find is this:
http://mmohuts.com/editorials/mmo-graveyard
It's not a perfect analogy since MMOs have a reasonable need for a connection to the server, unlike single player. It would be nice to reference whenever someone argues for always-on DRM.
Well that makes my decision all the more simple. I won't be getting the next generation of X-Box............. I've heard that the PS4 is going to be pretty permissive (trade-able games, less restrictive DRM, etc). As long as they maintain that they've got a guaranteed sale to me.
... a vacuum cleaner is a simple device. It does a thing: it sucks up dirt. All of the fancy engineering bits are just there so that it can suck dirt better (which, incidentally, is why it requires electricity, although you can also buy battery-operated vacuum cleaners!) There are lots of sorts of vacuum cleaner, but they're all designed so that they do what you want better.
The problem with Microsoft's console isn't that it has to be plugged in all the time; it's that this requirement is there for the benefit of someone other than the customer.
I've never been a fan of the "PC Master Race" people, but fuck, the further we go, the more they seem to be technically right. :/ ) :/
( I still don't care for their attitudes though
Consoles used to have the fact they were cheaper going for them, but that's hardly true anymore
On top of that, it's Microsoft. You know they're going to port most, if not all, of the games that do well to the Windows OS.
You know, their other product?
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
In related news, Queen Marie Antoinette asked her subjects to "Let them eat cake" when learning that her peasants lacked bread. When queried further on the subject, she elaborated: "they should get some, cakes are awesome!"
May we live long and die out
This from the company that caused a hotmail outage by letting passport.com expire in 1999... then let hotmail.co.uk expire in 2003... then let a certificate expire that caused the complete outage of Azure just a few weeks ago. And I'm supposed to depend on these morons if I want to play a game? No thanks.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
In this case you may consider having a new gaming console an unnecessary luxury?
I've seen so many of these you-just-don't-get-it people in- and outside of tech, and in all cases it is very angering. Even more so when people "in power" make such statements, showing they have absolutely no clue about what they're dealing with and in that instant you see how you and a lot of other people will s*ck big time because of these guys. While gaming-related always-on internet DRM is not something that would shake the world of all people, it is something to be worried about, since it contributes toward reaching that feared point in time where everything will require always-on DRM - and do believe in that will make your life miserable.
Specifically, in these always-on internet-based DRM schemes, what angers me most is that 1). you simply can't access content (in this case the game) if your connection has problems or - which is much more frequent - the provider of the content - e.g. the game servers - have problems, and 2). if the content provider decides they want to go out of businnes or release a new platform/content/game and close down the old one then there's nothing you can do. Basically your access to the content/game and your history is at the mecry of the provider and you can only access/play until they let you. This angers me much more than "simple" DRM.
All in all, the DRM everyone now sees to want to deploy everywhere is just not good, and it's definitely not nice or user friendly, at all.
I would say next, that if they want to remain in businness, they need to be more user friendly, but look out there and see that they still get enough users to be profitable, despite all the bad DRM schemes... Most average users/prople just don't know, and don't care enough to raise havoc about this, they just go along with it.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
Right, because every gamer lives in a developed area with available high-speed internet. Because internet connections never go down. Because it makes any kind of sense at all to require an always-on connection for a single-player game. What a jerk.
"If it's real, then it gets more interesting the closer you examine it. If it's not real, just the opposite is true." -
Are we sure this guy actually works for MS? If so, Sony couldn't pay for such a great PS4 marketing campaign.
On a more serious note... what an unholy douchebag.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
So if I bought this I would have to pay a monthly fee to have XBOX gold so I can play online (the only way to play online) plus always on DRM even for games that are local and single player only. On top of this they wil have a store to sell me music, and videos ( I assume with the same always on DRM) and will be making extra money from that? Well I gave my XBOX 360 away for reasons similar to to, but more benign than this. Looks like i can avoid future news on this money grabbing sinkhole of greed.
Atari 2600
Nintendo
Super Nintendo
Sega
TG16
Neo Geo
Atari Jaguar
PS1
3DO
Sega Saturn
Sega Dreamcast
Nintendo 64
Nintendo Gamcube
Nintendo Wii
Xbox
Xbox 360
Playstation 2
Playstation 3
And surprise surprise game for those are dirt cheap.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
I never bought an x-box-- went with the PS3 instead. Sony does not exactly have a great track record when it comes to being friendly to their customers. I'd provide links to old slashdot articles highlighting this, but there are really too many to choose just a few.
With Microsoft pulling this kind of crap, there aren't too many choices if I want a next-generation console..
That might make for a good "Ask Slashdot".
Now here is where your choice affects me: if the internet-dependent console is successful, others will probably copy the model.
So you've just made the original proposal (don't get one) and even BETTER idea. I don't like a console that requires a constant internet connection so if I don't want ALL of them to require a constant internet connection, then I had BETTER NOT get one!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
- game will not run without valid credit card number
- game will have in-game "one click" upgrades
- instant profit
btw. M$, do this and it will cost you money. this is MY idea.
Privacy is terrorism.
I don't know about you, but I (and my kids) still keep playing with a PS2, an Xbox and a Wii. So, for how long will MS keep those servers online after the next Xbox? 3 years? 5 years? Nice way of making a perfectly working and fun product go by the drain of obsolescence.
Just imagine if the Xbox360 was launched with this atrocity. I would be in fear that in the next few years my console would be a brick.
I live in an apartment. I'm surrounded by 30 other WiFi routers. My connection is so horrible as to be almost unusable sometimes. So no offline mode means no console gaming for me. I won't be held hostage to the whims of my neighbors and their microwaves interrupting my gaming.
This isn't like a vacuum cleaner. It's like a broom that is designed to work only when connected to AC power, even though it doesn't require electricity.
Nobody protests when a product requires something that it actually uses - like a network connection for multiplayer games. What pisses people off is when a product is deliberately designed to stop working under circumstances when it could effortlessly keep working. That goes beyond incompetence and crosses over into plain malice.
The thing about statements like this is, it just illustrates why the big guys are handing the game market to mobile. Mobile games HAVE to expect that internet connectivity could be shoddy by the very nature of the devices. So they design for it. Meanwhile a console assuming constant internet connectivity will suffer mightily when not the case...
Mobile platforms force designers to handle error conditions that console game makers can feel free to ignore, and over time that will drive more and more people to use mobile games because they are more stable. It's funny that the draw of consoles initially was stability, not having to maintain a gaming PC... but now something even more stable has come along.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
There's always the multiplayer games, not MMOs.
Here's a long list, from just one company.
They don't seem to understand fios or other fiber internet technologies are not available throughout the whole country so people either go with dsl or cable which drop to 1mbps around 4:pm in the afternoon. U.S way behind on internet speeds and reliability compared to europe and some asian countries.
If Microsoft wants to alienate their customers and push them towards ps3, wiiU, that's fine it's their loss. Microsoft are also ignoring the folks who want the old start menu for windows 8, this is fine as well users will either stick with windows 7 or find another alternative. That's corporations for you, shitty products and services at a high price.
....the peasants crieth about a shortage of bread.
Quoth Her Royal Majesty "Let them eat cake!".
-SS "Teach the ignorant, care for the dumb, and punish the stupid."
Don't want a prostate exam administered by a thick-fingered Samoan? Deal with it. You should get one; it's awesome!
...this is a perfect example of it. As many people work their way further up the chain in their company, even if they started out "like everyone else" - many appear to experience what I refer to as business or corporate sociopathy. They get so engrossed in the day to day processes, practices and techniques that become popular in their particular industry circles, which granted, do have some benefits, that they lose sight there may also be serious downsides for comsumers in the implementation of some of these tools. This is when they suffer executive disconnect from their customers and consumers in general.
I wish they could comprehend just how much this sucks for the rest of us.
Keep it real execs.
Lately there has been a lot of things that Microsoft "doesn't get": mobile computing, desktop computing (i.e., the Windows 8 fiasco), increasing stock price, what a great CEO is, etc., etc., etc....
For me when DRM(especially Always-On) gets involved I no longer own the game. I am just licensing the game. The company may take away my license at any time.
I don't mind licensing a game. But lets get it straight that in no way shape or form should I be expected to pay the same amount for a license of a game and a copy of the game which I can do whatever I want with. I think this is why Steam has had so much success is because I often feel like their prices are taking this concept into thought.
Sorry, you lost me here with this vacuum cleaner analogy thing. Could somebody explain it to me with one of the good old car analogies that we know and understand?
It sounds like it. Where I am at, the internet goes down in a weekly basis. (Welcome to Juneau, Alaska). There is no such thing as an always-on connection. If Microsoft is dumb enough to make this a requirement, they will most likely lose users. Just as they did when they decided the windows 8 UI must be designed by a kindergartner.
Their tablet guys "don't get" a lot of things.
Their OS guys "don't get" a lot of things.
Adapt or die.
..don't panic
Don't want a game console that hase to be connected to the internet? Get the "disruptive" device that's shaking up the game industry: Get an OUYA!
Oh, wait... You turn it on, it has to do a mandatory internet system update before it will do anything, and you have to give OUYA your credit card info before you can get any "free" games... They're all free to play by the way. That means: in game purchases.... Which is effectively an always online DRM system.
As a game developer, I just want to sell you a game ONCE, and have you play it at your leasure on whatever device you want it to run on. That's the goal anyway. What's happened is that Game Players and Game Makers want games to run everywhere forever, but the console industry wants to have planned obsolescence and exclusivity to get you to buy the new shiny. The hardware makers leverage vendor lock-in and "walled gardens" to control both the players and developers of games. Console makers are actually harmful to the industry at this pont: Their goals are completely opposite to those of the creators and enoyers of games. Additionally, because big games are expenisive to create we have to dumb them down to the lowest common denominator because of the consoles' under spec'd hardware and glacial rev cycles that completely ignore moore's law.
Looks like the PC is the only market left for no-nonsense game developers who just want to let people play the fucking game whenever, forever.
PS. IMO, "Mobiles" are also "Personal Computers" with a capital P, folks.
I assume his boss let him know he's a tit and that's why he set his account to private. I'm glad he's effectively confirmed the next Xbox will be a bigger steaming turd and I can safely ignore it
Bagram. Carriers. FOBs. Hundreds of thousands of American Servicemembers who are forward deployed worldwide do not have and are not allowed to have personal electronics (iPads, PS3s, XBoxs, and the like) linked to the available network. They're barely able to check e-mail or Facebook, much less get Steam or XBox Live to reach out to their respective servers for authentication. And guess what? These 18-25 year old folks with discretionary income are NOT going to spend it on games the cannot play because of always-connected DRM requirements. Think with your wallets, developers and publishing houses. Rule number one of business: Never make it hard for the customer to give you his money. You are making it hard. That makes you dumb.
I'm approaching retirement and have a motorhome. Not everyplace I travel to has a fast connecton or any connection. No, I'm not paying high prices for very limited caps and huge ping times for a sat dish for internet. Ever share a free wireless connection at at campground? Sometimes dial up is faster.
For the campers, sometimes out is about 95% of the time.
I do have a flatscreen in the motorhome. It doubles as a backup camera screen when traveling, GPS screen, TV, Wii screen, and larger laptop screen.
I have a WiMax modem, but it is out of range in any location that is not city. I like the no contract BYOD (Bring your own Device) service. A used Goodwill modem and if in a service area, pay for a month. If not, no expense for service you can't reach.
http://www.clear.com/devices/byod
I guess travelers are not their intended audience. This is why smartphones are doing so well. They are better connected in most places.
The truth shall set you free!
Hey there Microsoft,
I'll accept your always-on DRM if you can guarantee 5 nines of uptime for your DRM servers for the next 60 years. After all, I have 30-year-old Atari games that work just fine.
Your modern games should be at least twice as reliable, right?
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
It's a change of business focus. The point is that they do not make any money selling consoles, and they do not make as much money as they want off of selling games. That business is dead. What he is really saying, is that they are using the console to drive their new business, where all the profits come from on-line content. In other words, their is no product without an internet connection, because the real product is network based. The console is just a way to access the content.
The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
"When quizzed by other Twitter users about people with no internet connection, he suggested that they should get one, as it is 'awesome.'" Yeah so why don't you try telling me that back in 2008-2009 when I was in Afghanistan for 15 months straight working 16 hour days with no internet access, no alcohol, and no sex. What do you think we did to unwind? We played console games and games like CIV4 with no internet connection. And I f-ing dare you to say, "our Soldiers shouldn't be playing video games over there." You try working 16 hour days for a year and a half straight without playing video games. Let me know how fast you run off the base and shoot an entire civilian family for no reason. And let me know how that PTSD works out for you too.
with EVERYTHING at Microsoft! Dont like "Metro"? TOUGH! Don't like DRM? DEAL WITH IT! Don't like us taking 30%of your gross? TOO BAD!
How long are users and developers going to tolerate these policies? I am NEVER going to use Windows 8, and will probably move as much as I can over to Linux going forward. I will NEVER own another XBOX, nor a Windows Phone. I am DONE with Microsoft and their insistence that "they know better" than their users! GOODBYE MS! You won't be missed!
Neo Geo
Uhhhh...
not so much.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
It's not like "not buying a vacuum cleaner because the electricity sometimes goes out."
It's like not buying a vacuum because you have to phone the manufacturer every time you want to use it... and getting busy signals when you do phone in because the phone bank is overloaded.
The Microsoft vacuum cleaner, the first Microsoft product that doesn't suck.
"Hello, this is the Microsoft Technical Support desk, I'm so sorry to hear you're having trouble with your new vacuum.
Have you tried turning it off and on again? Yes?
Okay, lets try removing all of the attachments...yes sir, including the bag...okay, now let's try unplugging the unit, counting to twenty, then plugging it back in...now let's reassemble the unit and try turning it back on. Still not functioning? And you already tried holding down the power button for five seconds with the rotor detached and while pushing the unit back and forth vigorously? You're sure the rotor was fully detached at the time?
I'm sorry to say it, sir, but it sounds like you may require a bigger bag and a faster motor to pick up the dirt you are describing. This model is really only suited for light dust pickup and cleaning up after short haired pets. Yes, I know the specifications said it could pick up moderate amounts of loose soil and longer hairs, but it can only do that occasionally, not full time, and this particular unit requires a full cleaning and refurbishing after each such use....I'm sorry you feel that way, sir.
Shall I put you in contact with our sales and upgrades department?"
"I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
It took my brother years to realize he wasn't having any fun on his 360; he was constantly dealing with DRM and various Fees to see that. It's in his closet now, and both he and I have per-ordered the Ouya. Until then we play Steam with our Linux Computers, incidentally, we haven't a single (functioning) Microsoft product in our homes. Yay! =p
Haven't you got it yet? The new Xbox isn't about GAMES anymore, it's about selling people's eyes to advertisers. These consoles are being used more for displaying media, rather than games. The mandatory Kinect and internet connection are a means to tell advertisers how many butts are in seats, watching their ads.
Want to see what the future will be like? Watch "15 Million Merits" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Black_Mirror_episodes
How about media that won't display unless your butt is in the seat, watching the ad?
The new Xbox will be one way to achieve that, EASILY.
>> Orth has also now switched his Twitter account settings to private.
I guess his "always on" Twitter account isn't as awesome as he originally thought.
I guess someone should tell this guy that conditions of Internetaccess vary strongly, as a small sample:
- I've got 100mb/s cable service
- the guy sitting next to me got only 3G service that get really expensive beyond 5GB monthly usage.
- and my inlaws living in the countryside manage around 2mbit/s DSL
Latency vary by connection and by daytime, and can go eerywhere between 20ms to >300ms for a ping roundtrip to nearest google server
So I guess if MS is willing to provide quality broadband service in all the places that normal ISPs consider to uninteresting commercially.
This is pretty much a deal breaker for me. You're telling me I can't take my next gen console up to the cottage with me? When I move to a new apartment or house, I can't use my console until I get internet hooked up? These are just personal things that affect me, other's have mentioned serving overseas or taking it on their boats or other things that might take away their ability to connect to the internet. Also, I am pretty thrilled at getting my first submission to Slashdot posted :)
Defender of Microsoft and Communism!!!
He must have one of the few reliable ISPs in america. Even though I have broadband, it's kinda shitty because options are limited (at&t, please roll out u-verse already, the people a fucking block over have it). It tends to be flaky, so I don't really like things depending on it not crapping out. And I live in a comparatively civilized area, so it only gets worse. They must not be paying attention to the state of internet in this country. Things just aren't good enough right now, same reason they're not going straight to digital distribution only just yet. Maybe in a decade, but right now this is a recipe for disaster.
Plus, I'm not sure wtf the point is in the end really. Piracy wasn't a serious problem this generation, outside of maybe on the Wii. Just securing things effectively should be more than enough to prevent piracy, and you just need check-ins to lock used games out. (Though even that probably alienates a large enough portion of consumers to matter). It just seems like they're shooting themselves in the foot.
Well, I did get Internet, and it is awesome.
And then, a few weeks ago, AT&T decided that the middle of the day on Saturday was a swell time to update the U-verse firmware and reboot all the customer modems.
Suddenly, I and almost the entire neighborhood had no Internet for close to an hour. If we had this next-generation Xbox, we wouldn't have been able to play games or look at our Facebooks. I guess this guy is trying to drive us into using our iPhones and Galaxies instead of the Microsoft devices.
Have a nice time.
"Don't want a gaming console that requires a persistent internet connection? 'Don't buy it.'"
There, fixed it.
Always on DRM = the constant threat of YOUR personal property becoming useless.
The most frequent problem is outages and or bottlenecks.
But the real problem is:
"Microsoft sells gaming platform to SuperMeggaGameCo to focus more on their core products"
"SuperMeggaGameCo goes under"
"XBoxes become paperweights"
(If at first you don't succeed, do it different next time!)
A $599 game console is cheaper than even one year of high-speed Internet, especially the satellite or microwave kind that you'd have to get if you live outside the service area of fiber, cable, and DSL.
On top of that, it's Microsoft. You know they're going to port most, if not all, of the games that do well to the Windows OS.
How many Halo games ended up ported to Windows? Combat Evolved was ported, and 2 was given a half-donkey port to attempt to sell copies of Windows Fisting^W Vista, but I don't recall seeing a Windows port of 3, ODST, Wars, Reach, or 4. Or Conker. Or Banjo.
There's a big difference though between using an internet connect to game and requiring an internet connection to authorize the game on startup. How many KBs does it really take to log in and authenticate? It should be reasonable even over EDGE 2G to make the handshake.
Doesn't matter how few KB it needs. Would you pay double your cell bill just so a console game can authorize once in a while? Didn't think so. You use the Android tablet instead. A few people buy the equipment and pay a subscription to Sat internet, but they have a different budget than I do.
The truth shall set you free!
"Sir, are you sure you have configured the vacuum cleaner's wifi connection correctly? ... Ah, now we've figured out the problem, sir."
It's funny that he made the same argument as Google does with "native Google experience" phones/devices where you're not supposed to have any SD card/substantial local storage because, well, cloud. Stream all the things, re-download everything every time, areas with bad connectivity be damned (though Google at least tries to prevent disruptions when you encounter connectivity blip).
I think always-connected businesses simply look too far into the future, where we all be living in hyper-connected utopia. Until then, running with always-connected idea might end badly when a wall of slow/expensive/unreliable/missing connectivity appears on that path to the bright future :(
Hyperom.com
The abuse-of-monopoly and lock-in tactics are applied to Microsoft's enterprise markets, as has been repeatedly found by courts.
If they can't both exist and adhere to the law, then...
you had me at #!
Maybe Microsoft is trying to win the douchebag award back from Sony in the next gen consoles.
... after all it seems there's been a contest at Microsoft for years now: whoever crashes it's product the hardest into the ground, or even better make it explore on take off, wins.
And if you do complain - well, you just aren't getting it, and are stupid or worse.
What is so amusing, just like every other bad paradigm that Microsoft tries to operate under, we'll have the apologists come out and tell us of all the wonderful ways that we can, with silly gyrations, comply with Microsoft's demands. And if we do not want to, we are stupid or worse. After all, we can always do a dialup connection on our cell phone to connect our console, right?
Or you can be like a growing segment of users like me, who just won't buy their crappy products any more. I'll just take my business to places where I'm not stupid or worse.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I bought a 360 for a deployment to Iraq where we played in some of the rare moments of downtime we actually got. I got a RROD a month before the end of the deployment, but I didn't care. The couple hundred for console was well worth it in a place where entertainment was nonexistent. I got another 360 for a deployment to Afghanistan, this one made it the whole year, but I sold it to another marine before I returned to the states. I have another 360 at my house. I have spent a significant amount of time in undeveloped counties or field environments over the last decade. I can not be alone in this situation, and I can guarantee I won't be buying 3 720's.
, but doesn't all this seem kind of Orwellian to you??? First the Kinect, and now the gamebox. Full time connected to the Cloud. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but I do like to go "commando" around the house occasionally. Don't all these Cloud connected cameras around your house weird you out? Damn the taxpayers, full speed ahead.
Dear Microlimp: I give you 2 valid product keys for win7 and you reject both of them. Piss off you wankers!!!
Shouldn't he be required to set his Twitter account to "always on"?
I don't have an internet connection at home, cost is too much especially with how the two providers charge pretty hefty for just internet and a negligible cost to get cable TV as well. They just want to "bundle" you into a whole $100+/mo package so I can't justify the recurring cost. I do like to play games from time to time though. I have a company issued smart phone which I use to look things up, but I don't want to tether to my personal machine and run up the data costs playing games. Internet authenticating DRM, partiuclarly always on, means I simply won't buy it.