Slashdot Mirror
US Government Monitoring Associated Press Phone Records
Picass0 writes with distressing news from the AP wire, about the AP: "The Justice Department secretly obtained two months of telephone records of reporters and editors for The Associated Press in what the news cooperative's top executive called a 'massive and unprecedented intrusion' into how news organizations gather the news."
They obtained call records from a number of desk phones, and the personal phones of many news editors. The DOJ has not commented, but it may be related to the possibility that the CIA director leaked information on a foiled terror plot in Yemen last year.
Laws are for plebeians, not patricians.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
It is time to fire the Attorney General. If he knew of this then he is a criminal. And if he didn't then he is an idiot. Neither are acceptable.
No one could be worse than Bush!
Hell yeah, if only we could impeach that Bush and get someone new (with promise of hope) instead.
Oh, wait...
As long as we all agree that "Good" is framed by ideology not behavior.
We're protecting everyone's freedom - by looking very closely at how everyone exercises it and categorising every result.
This is, because we all agree, that America was founded on the principle of Safety Assured - and we are guaranteed any freedom that promotes this.
Do not support terrorism and discuss the validity of these arguments. Your freedom is not a license to be unorthodox in civil or economic matters.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Because we need to have two classes of people: journalists and ordinary plebians. As if the mainstream media needs anything more to pump up their already stratospheric egos.
I'm just surprised the AP didn't turn over their records voluntarily. It's not like they investigate the current government - hell, the AP is simpatico with their political beliefs, so what advantage is to be gained by being antagonistic?
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
How is there no mention of if there was or was not a warrant for this in the summary? More over, how the hell does the TFA not even use the word once?
Threw out Robert Gates, Ben Bernanke, Larry Summers, Tim Geithner, David Axelrod.
Got in return:
Robert Gates, Ben Bernanke, Larry Summers, Tim Geithner, David Axelrod.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
someone leaked classified info to the press which is a crime
DoJ is investigating
what's the problem?
Someone stole a car in your neighborhood.
The police wiretapped the phones of everyone in town, and record the license plates of all cars at every destination.
what's the problem?
If you don't get it yet, this is how they ran East Germany and Romania. "Laws" are not inherently moral dictates. Hitler had laws that made matters of public interest "classified", too.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Seriously, the press is all over things like wiretapping, political intrigues, what kind of corn was in the president's bowel movement today (was it GMO corn!?), etc, and seems to think that this kind of 'microscope up the ass' intrusiveness is not only 'news!' But also "the public has a right to KNOW!"
But, when somebody turns around and investigates one of THEM, "oh loaurd Jeezuz it's a fiar!".
What's good for the goose, is good for the gander AP. When you shamelessly cram the microscope up asses, don't act insensed or surprised when you get the microscope colonoscopy too. Simply because your shiny little badge says "news", does not make you immune to the law, and you are *not* people of priveledge.
Don't get me wrong, sunshine is good, and breaking stories about govt wrongdoing is healthy and good. Just don't foster an image of sweeping disregard for privacy, and due process while doing so, unless you want the same treatment for yourselves.
Enjoy your DoJ probing. You enjoyed probing others, so its surely right up your alley, AP.
We have specific problems right now with presidential overreach by Obama and Bush, and the solution is political change and discussion. Cynicism like yours is part of the problem, not part of a solution. The solution is to kick out politicians responsible for this.
Oh yeah. You have a "work within the system" and "hope and change" response. Because that works out, so very well.
See this: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3745845&cid=43715361
The system is corrupted beyond the imaginings of Eisenhower - with his famous warning.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
someone leaked classified info to the press which is a crime
DoJ is investigating
what's the problem?
Maybe we should also be asking what compelled the director of one of the most powerful intelligence organizations in the country to feel he had to tell his fellow citizens something that was so important, he was willing to risk his career and his freedom to do.
And if we judge his actions to be on the side of justice, fairness, and the principles of democracy which we say are the foundation of our laws... then perhaps we should examine more closely how a man who did right by his people is being declared a criminal by his government.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
As a doctor I am allowed to do many things that you are not allowed to do. Does that make me into another "class" of citizen? A journalist who studied journalism should certainly have both the rights AND responsibilities that go with his earned degree.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
are there enough poiliticans left after you kick out the bad ones to run the country? which party would you propose should the president be from next election? They are equally bad.
NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER GIVE UP! "No limitations, no boundaries, there is no reason for them."
Actually, there are shorter cycles as well, kind of like harmonics.
Interesting comment you made there about harmonics.
Harmonics can be deadly: Tacoma Narrows Bridge Collapse "Gallopin' Gertie"
So, at the moment the Obama administration has the following scandals brewing:
Justice Department: Gov't obtains wide AP phone records in probe
IRS: The IRS’s Tea-Party Targeting
State Department and Office of President: The Benghazi Deception
There are a few other things brewing in the background as well.
It might be a hot summer for the Obama administration regardless of the weather.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Some of us would love any kind of job we could get. Some of us have resumes that 10 years ago would have landed us a job in a week at almost any entry level position in the great capitalist machine.
Some of us had the ability to start our own businesses and run our own lives. Before the price became to great to compete.
(Sarcasm inc) We also owe society a permanent debt. Didn't you learn that in gradeschool?
But seriously when some are above the law. And most have no chance at controlling their fate. It's really fascist of you to demand we "kill off all the chaff". Especially when we have the means of providing everyone a clean and safe environment to live in with plenty of food. It doesn't matter if their oppressed. Unwilling to fight for themselves, or unable to. The better man will enlighten them and guide them on a path to success and liberty. You don't OWN this planet, and no one does. Maybe you should learn to share it?
But the technology and means of distribution has been suppressed by the rich dynastic few. Your entitled to not believe this. But I promise you are wrong. This is about the only thing I can know with a certainty any more.
Awww, the press is upset that someone checked over their phone records. At least they obtained a warrant. The FBI appears to think that no such thing is needed when it's a common citizen that they want records for. How come the press is upset when it happens to them but seems to ignore the FBI doing it to others?
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
I am very sad for all of you who have to mod -5 troll an argument for charity. What will it take to teach people to work together instead of against each other? I am not damning capitalism. I am just saying that abuses made by the rich and powerful affect us all. And the only way to combat such abuse is to unite together. Either under government or some other means.
Silly goose. Leakers and whistleblowers are only respected when a Republican regime is in power.
Two of those three "scandals" are things that the majority of people don't care about.
None of the Democrat's supporters, and a good chunk of more moderate Republicans, don't care about weather the President called the Benghazi attack a terrorist attack or not, and for the most part, only his most die-hard opponents are still talking about it. I'm not a supporter of Democrats, and I don't care about it.
The IRS targeting Tea Party organizations might raise more hairs on the Republican side of the isle, however targeting groups that are explicitly proponents of an anti-taxation agenda (especially when nobody was unfairly cracked down on) isn't offensive enough to anyone except Tea Partiers. Again I'm not a supporter of Democrats, but the IRS imposing extra scrutiny to a group of people whose entire existence is an opposition to the IRS doesn't seem like much of a stretch to me.
This AP phone records thing has my interest, however.
Look forward to big brother telling me when I can piss and shit.
What did people expect when Obama took Mayor Daley's goon and thug squad to DC?
Don't laugh. There was a bit of a scandal a while back when a New Zealand job agency that was presumably paid to get people off unemployment benefits was paying for plane tickets to send long term unemployed to Australia.
I think you're mistaken on this, at least where it will end up.
The AP issue could easily flip the media to a much more adversarial stand against the Obama administration than they have taken to date. Rather than adversarial, they have actively covered for the administration - ignoring stories that they would have beat President Bush with all year long, minimizing others, asking friendly questions. If reporters come to understand that the administration came after them on a fishing expedition, which is what this was, they will not be happy.
The IRS scandal is one that many Americans will be concerned about. Most Americans understand that the IRS coming after people on a political basis is a very bad thing even if it is about a group that may not be their cup of tea, so to speak. This sort of thing hasn't been in the open like this since the Nixon administration. You may recall that didn't end well for President Nixon, and more than one commentator has referred to President Obamba as Nixonian at best.
But that is what makes the Tea Party aspect of this politically deadly is that there are many Americans that support many aspects of the Tea Party agenda even if they are not members.
Tea Party Supporters: Who They Are and What They Believe
You apparently also misunderstand the Tea Party - they oppose higher taxes and increasing spending, not the IRS or the collection of taxes. There is no legitimate reason for what the IRS did there. The IRS has admitted that it was wrong, completely inappropriate. (I admit a certain fascination in the fact that for some reason there are more than a few on Slashdot that try to defend what the IRS itself has condemned as being completely wrong. Why? It is absolute nonsense. I assume many, if not most are not Americans.)
As to Benghazi, we will see. There are important developments coming out. The Obama administration just held a private background briefing for key press members. Why? Americans were killed. The Ambassador was killed - a very rare event. The administration ignored their security needs before the attack, and then abandoned them during the attack when there were resources available to intervene and save them, and then lied multiple times at multiple levels after the fact. There is an old saying in politics that it isn't the crime but rather the cover up that does you in. There are people scurrying to cover their butt all over Washington on this, and it probably won't turn out well for the Administration.
You are entitled to your interests. I don't think most Americans will agree with you in the near future.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Where you stop kicking? Things were pretty clear last presidential election, and still one of the 2 candidates that were assuring that everything will still be in the same way or worse were elected. If having the chance nothing was done, even when plenty of evidence of the trend, why you think it will be done next time?
The only possibility is that the Lesters choose someone that will actually fix things for all, not following their goals. And even if by some miracle it happens, all those heavy investors and all their high paid consultants get fooled and choose the wrong guy, still remains the rest of the goverment.
You can keep playing lotto and hope that next time you will hit the big prize. But odds are high that things will never be fixed, the system is just too rigged.
Hell yeah, if only we could impeach that Bush and get someone new (with promise of hope) instead. Oh, wait...
You know what? Fuck your cynicism. (Not you, your cynicism.)
Speaking as someone who lives in a country with a history of consistently corrupt, dysfunctional governments, without any kind of police presence in the community, with disgustingly poor health and education services, this litany of complaint and hopelessness sounds to me like nothing more than childish whining.
It wasn't always this way, and frankly, I don't care what happened that reduced the Americans in this audience to such a useless bunch of wankers. But merciful god, could you please show at least a modicum of intelligence and - yes, I'll say it - hope?
You people really have no fucking clue what it's like to live in a broken society. But if you don't shut the fuck up, learn a civics lesson or two and start fixing things, you're going to find out. And before you tell me it's too late, I'm here to say that if you think that, you honestly don't have any fucking idea how bad things can get.
There are very definite steps you can take to curtail this kind of intrusion on press freedom, only the first of which is to shout loud and long to your representative not to stand for it. So get off your ass, shut the fuck up with the whining, and get to fucking work.
Hugs, from the developing world.
Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
Doctors are licensed and have at least minimally enforced professional standards. Journalists are not licensed, and professional standards of late seem to be more honoured in the breach than in the observance.
Journalists have the same 1st Amendment rights that other Americans have. They can publish most anything without prior restraint, but there can be consequences after the fact.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
You missed too big to jail, and everything is rigged. Nothing happened to the people responsible (more than becoming even richer). And it will keep happening.
Washington warned us that partisanism will be the downfall of American Politics. We haven't learned from the first Farewell Address, why would we have learned from a later one? At least Washington stood by his principles during his term. Eisenhower sold out, starting the Vietnam war before ducking out and blaming the military industrial complex. And we didn't listen to him either.
Learn to love Alaska
Maybe we should also be asking what compelled the director of one of the most powerful intelligence organizations in the country to feel he had to tell his fellow citizens something that was so important, he was willing to risk his career and his freedom to do.
Apparently nothing, but a good attempt at smearing someone. From TFA:
Maybe we should also be asking him if he's stopped beating his wife?
As for the "seized" phone records that the AP "wants back", should we point out that they are just copies of the information and that the AP didn't actually have any physical object taken from them. It's just a copy of information.
And perhaps we should point out that an investigation is just an investigation and not harassment and they didn't lose any rights. After all, all they may have to do is pay taxes ... oh, sorry, that's the IRS investigating tax-exempt political organizations and threatening them with back taxes and penalties, but not actually harassing them or limiting their rights in any way (according to some ./ers.) How is looking at tax, I mean phone, records in any way hurting anyone?
Should we not compare the allegedly illegal antics of one branch of the executive with another? If it's ok for one, why not the other?
On a serious note though.
The most I ask is that people stop scoffing at those in need. Because sometimes bigger bullies on the playground beat up your friends, and "we are next (TM)". This is where my speech, hey, some of those guys asking for a hand out are not doing it because they are lazy or dumb or evil, or "less then you". Thats why we tried to create a society were we had the power to look after these people.
It use to be to some degree balanced by the fact that many people associated with a particular religion or creed and through this organization advanced the idea of philanthropy or charity. Now we are in a time of decreasing social aware ness. Less accountability. People far away you do not even know can dictate local policy and economics. There use to be a buffer between fiefdoms before the industrial revolution. So if Rome went down. The Pacific Islanders did not really notice.
That world is gone by the way.
I don't advocate violent solutions to social inequality.
See also: With Liberty and Justice for Some by Glenn Greenwald. I'm still reading it. It's depressing.
As a doctor I am allowed to do many things that you are not allowed to do
I'm actually against that, too. Shocking, I know.
Speaking as someone who lives in a country with a history of consistently corrupt, dysfunctional governments, without any kind of police presence in the community, with disgustingly poor health and education services, this litany of complaint and hopelessness sounds to me like nothing more than childish whining.
Can Bush get some of that perspective? Or is he still a monster rather than just a flawed guy in difficult times?
He didn't send the IRS after his political opponents, so he's got that going for him, at least.
Maybe it's time we stopped the blind worship of one politician and the blind hatred of the other one? Have we finally reached that time?
Oh yeah. You have a "work within the system" and "hope and change" response. Because that works out, so very well.
It's been working for hundreds of years, with degrees of success changing over time, in both the US and UK, and way better than the sort of socialist (or is that communist?) revolution you would prefer*. Why don't you try that in your native Canada first, so we can watch the results before it gets tried in the US?
A big part of the problem is that the news media isn't doing its job. They put their thumb on the scales in favor of Obama, and they still haven't really taken it off. Now, they are reaping their reward - multiple scandals breaking out at once, including the AP incident. It is a simple fact that about 90% of journalists in the US media contribute to Democrats, and probably vote the same. And that should be OK, as long as they report accurately and fairly even on policies they personally desire. But they aren't doing that. They are letting their personal political preferences interfere with their professional obligation. As a result, they cover for the Obama administration, ask friendly questions, continually post stories about "unexpected" outcomes that are bad when they can't otherwise be minimized. It is hard to make good choices for a country when the people and leaders aren't getting good, accurate, information, and that isn't happening. Well, their support of the Obama administration has become a bit strained recently, and it might very well turn shortly. When it does, it won't be pretty for the administration.
It may be already starting.
Obama knee-deep in Nixon-esque scandal (Note: As of posting, this is a front page story on the Boston Herald.)
Republicans could not even have scripted this one. The agency most hated by voters, the Internal Revenue Service, admits to going on a Nixonian witch hunt against Tea Party and conservative groups during the re-election campaign.
This is a story even the most partisan Massachusetts liberal cannot defend. It’s so bad that even Ed Markey is calling for heads to roll.
Now we learn that the Justice Department has secretly obtained the phone records of Associated Press reporters and editors in what appears to be an investigation of an AP story that disclosed details of a CIA operation that stopped a terrorist attack.
Going after the Tea Party is one thing, but the media? What an outrage. Who knows, the press may get so mad they won’t laugh at Obama’s jokes during the next White House Correspondents’ Dinner. . .more
*No, this isn't a troll. The man is very left of centre.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Warrantless surveillance of U.S. citizens, torture, indefinite detention, war crimes, arbitrary assassinations, gun smuggling to drug cartels, facilitating financial fraud, etc. etc.
And who gets punished for these crimes? The whistle-blowers who reveal the criminal activity to the American people.
Government is a giant extortion racket with the same moral principles as organized crime.
What will it take to teachXXXXX force people to work together instead of against each other?
communism
Fixed it.
If you could teach people to work together, that would be the foundations of communism. However, Communism in the real world had the cart and horse backwards, a lot of cynical hypocrites in charge (who weren't working together) and various other impurities.
Communism, like a lot of philosophies, would work much better if it didn't ignore human nature.
Can Bush get some of that perspective? Or is he still a monster rather than just a flawed guy in difficult times?
He didn't send the IRS after his political opponents, so he's got that going for him, at least.
Maybe it's time we stopped the blind worship of one politician and the blind hatred of the other one? Have we finally reached that time?
Bush set the precedent. That's what I cannot forgive. I pointed out at the time that aside from the fact that this kind of stuff was wrong in and of itself that administrations change and that a wise person does not prepare weapons for his enemies to use against him, but...
Man would be better served if we each had more empathy for one another. Looking at the world, it doesn't seem as though we're wired that way. It would appear external motivators fuel good deeds: fear of one's soul going to hell; tax write-offs; bragging rights ("look at me, I helped a homeless person!").
I mostly see man as some sort of domesticated animal; one whose animal spirit is suppressed with superficial niceties. But that only goes so far, unfortunately.