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Mayan Pyramid In Belize Leveled By Construction Crew
An anonymous reader writes "If an imposing 2300-year old Mayan temple situated at the Nohmul complex in northern Belize was on your list of things to see before you die, you're too late. The monument was essentially destroyed by a construction crew in order to provide gravel for road construction. Archaeologists expressed shock, as Nohmul (the "great mound") was a major Mayan religious center in its day. While the pyramid was situated on private property, such historical sites are supposedly protected by ordinance, and officials may file criminal charges."
Well its not a good time for pyramids, with the Muzzies threatening to destroy the Egyptian ones.
while a callous disregard for history at least it was not an intentional attempt to erase other religions
In with the new.
Humanity needs to stop hording and learn to let things go.
...they want their pyramid back.
Those mestizo half-breeds really weren't born with a full box of marbles--destroying a temple for road gravel. And Obama wants to flood our country with these tawny height challenged brainiacs.
Its a GOP mecca of international commercial interests first, to hell with anything that benefits the local people. The article doesn't say who owns the private land but probably foreign. Palms got greased and goodbye pyramid. Don't cry Yankees, you did the same to your own native peoples, and worse.
The mayan date was right but the work crew fell behind
It's not like they planned on using it after 2012.
'Adagio For Strings' came up on my Pandora as I read the summary. Seems oddly appropriate.
The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.
http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Carbon-T-F.jpg
This is indeed a tragedy, I do hope the construction company gets at least SOME punishment. This kind of mindless destruction reminds me of the song "Ancient World" by Abney Park
The ancient world is crumbling
Replaced with synthetic blend
If we don't do something soon
Mankind's last beauty will end
This palace withstood the test of time
This mosque endures all days
Now stand by for the dynamite
For the shopping malls we make way
We run to the end and the future follows ...
We run to the end from bleak tomorrows
We run to the end and the future follows
We run to the end from bleak tomorrows
...this is America's fault. Specifically George W. Bush.
Just make it cheaper, no matter how.... if somebody find a way to make good business nuking the moon, they will go ahead....romantic people can still watch Breakfast at Tiffany's... Tides? Who needs tides? Fishes? who cares? I will have my new Ferrari to drive, a longer yatch and a luxurious flat in Aspen....
I was just in Belize a few weeks ago and while the destruction of any Mayan ruins is tragic, I don't think Nohmul was quite what it's being made out to be. The few pictures I could find of the actual Nohmul temple are much different than the picture in the linked article. I remember no mention of it when trying to select ruins to go see. It doesn't seem like it was a big tourist draw.
I was at Laminai and that is a truly impressive set of structures. There are lots of unexcavated buildings still there and the remarkable thing is that the look just like hills. Though it's a stretch, it's not outside the realm of possibility that workers at Noh mul were unaware of the significance of what looked like a pile of rocks until they started working. The landowner surely would have known.
> in Belize
Belize, is that, wait! HAS ANYONE SEEN MCAFFEE LATELY?
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
No one here screaming about private property??
Officials are calling for calm amid reports that feathered serpent attacks are up 39% from historical baselines...
Here, I found of recent picture of Nohmul for you.
Okay, the pyramid was on privately owned land. Time to check and see what the land owner wanted to do with the land that the pyramid was getting in the way of. Or, perhaps he was just concerned that all these tourists were coming to this pyramid and he wasn't getting anything out of it. And the insurance liability, Suppose someone were climbing around on this thing and fell, even if they were illegal trespassers would he be responsible? There are a number of very good legal reasons why he's want to have this hazard removed. On top of that, I understand the price of gravel is very high these days.
As much as I hate the idea of expropriating land from private owners, if you want to really preserve these sorts of things you've got to remove them from private ownership and recompense the land owner either with money or a swap of some new land of equal value. As long as these sorts of things are in private ownership, this will continue.
"Mayan" is the name of the language. The adjective is "Maya," as in Maya temple or Maya people.
"I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
The destruction was intentional by some authorities still looking for McAfee. Now they'll charge him with the human sacrifices that occurred two millenia ago.
This kind of destruction for the pettiest of reasons isn't anything new. In Malta, a group took a bulldozer to the stone temples at Mnajdra, a glorious megalithic site, older than Stonehenge and the Pyramids. Mnajdra is breathtakingly lovely and enigmatic and fascinating. Fortunately, it's largely been restored and is again open to the public. Why? People had constructed illegal bird-hunting hides on the adjacent land and objected to their hides being destroyed. People will be vicious destructive assholes for any number of reasons, including just because they can. Profit, sheer revelry in destruction (Persepolis), symbolism of dominance or victory (Summer Palace in Beijing), religious fanaticism (Buddha statues), a fanatical dislike of cities (Mongols and most of the cities in their way), to discourage attacks (Carthage), any number of reasons.
A friend shared this story recently.
The new global zeitgeist of sans souci. "Ah, well. It doesn't affect me. Let's have another Coke", and don't forget to toss the empty cup out the window.
Proverbs 21:19
So tell me again, why is the first link for that story a bulshitty post on a New Zealand rightwing blog, with a blatantly misidentified picture? (this is what the actual temple looks like)
For chrissake, the blog post starts with "Reports are coming in", as if it was written by some international news channel, not some guy in his underwear sitting on the opposite side of the world.
You insensitive clod! ;-)
Visual impressiveness is rarely an indication of archaeological importance. In fact, something that looks like a pile of rocks is often a structure that hasn't been studied yet. The fantastic pyramids and temples you see are often the result of best-guess reconstruction.
Problem solved
Visual impressiveness is rarely an indication of archaeological importance. In fact, something that looks like a pile of rocks is often a structure that hasn't been studied yet. The fantastic pyramids and temples you see are often the result of best-guess reconstruction.
I agree. My point was that in the few pictures I was able to find of it prior to being destroyed, it didn't look like much more than what could have been a natural limestone formation covered by vegetation. Again I think it's a stretch, but it's possible the workers didn't realize they were digging up a temple. After reading some of the local news coverage though, this seems very unlikely.
Anyway, I'm disappointed that the article pictured the wrong temple and I suspect that it might have been intentional.
Sacrifice the guilty to the Mayan gods
Most of the posts in response to this story seem to focus on
* Bad Grammar
* Bad Jokes
* US Politics (how the fuck everything can be related to US politics is beyond me)
* Ethnic Slurs (including of course the obligatory insults to Muslims that must appear in any article on anything these days. Keep up the hate guys, its only helping your reputation with the rest of the world).
* Lastly, and apparently leastly, some outrage at the destruction of a part of human history, thus lessening our understanding of the same by some degree. A site like this belongs to all of humanity, its our heritage, its a way to understand where we came from and thus perhaps where we might be going. The people who knocked this temple down (and the owner of the company responsible) should be in prison for the rest of their lives.
Hopefully this at least serves to make governments all through the region aware of the need to protect heritage sites like this. Without our history, we are *nothing*.
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
I know that you religious people get butt-hurt when people point out that you are evil, but let's face it, the Catholic church is and has always been a criminal conspiracy. No one who knows anything about its history can deny this.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Anyway, I'm disappointed that the article pictured the wrong temple and I suspect that it might have been intentional.
Agreed. Also buried in the article: the site has been very thoroughly worked over by archeologists over the decades, and there are archeologists who see this as an opportunity to study the lower layers that would have been impossible before.
So is this bad? I'd certainly say so. But in reality, a degraded monument not in current use was destroyed. The biggest shame in my mind is that the archeologists weren't given the opportunity to disassemble it. I certainly hope future civilizations don't spend too much time arguing over the ruins of the corner church on my street.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
...If, in 2000 Years, my old bones will be scooped up out of the ground by some anti-gravity Bulldozer and used as a beauty product ingredient. Can you imagine some teen-aged Girl applying Lipstick made from my Bones?. Would she would be shocked that the product she is placing on her silicone-enhanced lips once belonged to a Slashdot poster whom used an actual Desktop Linux box?. Nah, she wouldn't care and wouldn't have the faintest of clues as to what a Slashdot was.
Obviously I wouldn't care, and I seriously doubt the Mayans whom built this Temple care. It's a tragedy for Archaeologists and History buffs like myself, but the Earth continues to tick without it.
Bullshit. They excavated the material for road fill, they knew exactly what it was and the quality of the material they would obtain and how much money they would save paying for quarried material trucked to the site. You do not just use any passing dirt for road fill because it will be impossible to compact properly and could be subject to extreme bulking when exposed to water, you do not randomly excavate hills because you do not know what they constitute and how difficult they will be to excavate.
You win the prize for civil construction ignorance as do those who thought your ignorance was informative. Even ancient Romans knew better than you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_roads please check diagram at bottom of article.
The greedy shit head owner of the company knew exactly what they were doing and how much they would save.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
This has happened countless times over history, this is far from unique. There is little evidence to think it will stop, unless it is more valuable as ruins.
Hadrian's Wall is a perfect example. "Hey free building stone sweet!" In this case it was used for roads, rather than dwellings. Old castles are subject to this as well. Heck the Vatican has destroyed a huge part of history, recycling ruins, particularly for valuable easily accessible marble, bronze, and just about anything from roman ruins. I am sure they felt that not only can they get great materials on the cheap, but also the destruction of heathen, pagan, temples is just a bonus!
Ironically I think there should be a special place in hell for those that intentionally destroy historical artifacts that that.
note that the ordinance in question is still working on 'filing' similar criminal charges on alvarado and cortes' for similar crimes.
Bullshit. They excavated the material for road fill, they knew exactly what it was and the quality of the material they would obtain and how much money they would save paying for quarried material trucked to the site. You do not just use any passing dirt for road fill because it will be impossible to compact properly and could be subject to extreme bulking when exposed to water, you do not randomly excavate hills because you do not know what they constitute and how difficult they will be to excavate.
You win the prize for civil construction ignorance as do those who thought your ignorance was informative. Even ancient Romans knew better than you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_roads please check diagram at bottom of article.
The greedy shit head owner of the company knew exactly what they were doing and how much they would save.
I'm sure they knew what they were getting even if they didn't realize it was a Mayan temple (which as I said is a stretch). The limestone was visible through the vegetation. I'm not suggesting that people commonly dig up random hills to use as road fill.
However, even if total ignorance of the significance of the site is a stretch, what I also find unbelievable is that someone thought they could tear down the most prominent feature of a major archaeological find and figure that nobody would notice.
So the truth is probably somewhere in between. The picture in the linked article was a deliberate misrepresentation of what was destroyed in order to fan outrage. If they'd shown a picture of the actual temple readers wouldn't be nearly as upset because frankly it didn't look like much. Now again, the fact that it didn't look like much doesn't mean it's not an important site. I'm not condoning what happened. But tearing down something like the high temple at Laminai is a much different sort of crime that what we have here.
The ancient Egyptians did this, the ancient Greeks did this, the ancient Romans did this, the ancient (insert culture here) all did this. I am sure even the Maya did this. They all tore down the old to make materiel for the new.
It only proves that people have not learned a thing in over 10,000 years.
Bullshit. They excavated the material for road fill, they knew exactly what it was and the quality of the material they would obtain and how much money they would save paying for quarried material trucked to the site. You do not just use any passing dirt for road fill because it will be impossible to compact properly and could be subject to extreme bulking when exposed to water, you do not randomly excavate hills because you do not know what they constitute and how difficult they will be to excavate.
You win the prize for civil construction ignorance as do those who thought your ignorance was informative. Even ancient Romans knew better than you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_roads please check diagram at bottom of article.
The greedy shit head owner of the company knew exactly what they were doing and how much they would save.
I'll try putting it a little differently. I have a hard time believing they knew exactly what they were doing because if they did they'd know there'd be hell to pay. There are lots of completely un-excavated buildings of lesser importance that they'd have a much better chance of destroying and getting away with. In fact that may be exactly what they were supposed to do. Somebody picked the wrong hill.
In the iberian penninsula we are experts in expulsions, independently of how high or how deep they get. And if they got in here (I suppose the inquisition for rent of about 70 years ago is to be blamed), I imagine they are everywhere, like a big dinosaur wishing to be struck again. I am just a simple Computer Scientist, but I imagine that what did not happen for good, then it will have to happen for bad. Especially since it was pretty clear since World War II that certain "people" are not wanted anywhere (or they would not have talked about "final solutions"). And I would obviously have to agree.
Come to New England and examine all the stone cellar holes.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
In real life, building material is re-used. In fact, it may be the only benefit of these structures for "the people".
The limestone casing of the pyramids? Gone. Various ruins around Europe? Once abandoned, people used them for building materials.
Not every old thing is worth saving.
This stuff happens a lot in various contexts. You send in bulldozers then later apologize that a mistake was made. They know they won't go to jail, they know the local historical society doesn't have funds to sue, and it'll all blow over shortly.
And I'm sure that codes enforcement and civil engineering standards are the same in Belize as they are in [your country] (fill in with your country name.)
Lamanai, not Laminai,, from the Mayan Lama'anayin meaning submerged crocodile.
Beautiful pyramids though and it is very easy to know what they are is as they are always in areas with other Mayan structures.
And yes, the Belize gov is pretty incompetent (ask McAffee)
I spent two seasons in the mid-1980s excavating at Nohmul, and can put a rest to some of the speculation here.
Nobody in this region is unaware of the nature of these ruins, nor their significance. This part of the country is flat limestone plains, and it is generally understood that any small hills are in reality ancient ruins.
The site draws almost no tourists whatsoever (it is almost entirely unrestored), so liability is not a concern. While not amongst the better known sites, it had much historic value nonetheless, which is why it was the subject of numerous investigations by Cambridge and Rutgers Universities, National Geographic, etc. The destruction of one Nohmul's primary structures for road fill is indeed a tragedy. The gentleman who owned the site when I excavated there would never have let this happen, but I suspect that ownership changed hands in the interim.
I am not a number - I am a free man!
So that was what John McAfee was lacking. If he had a 2k year old Mayan Pyramid, he'd not have needed to flee..
Lamanai, not Laminai,, from the Mayan Lama'anayin meaning submerged crocodile.
Beautiful pyramids though and it is very easy to know what they are is as they are always in areas with other Mayan structures. And yes, the Belize gov is pretty incompetent (ask McAffee)
It's only easy to know that the other hills in the area are ruins if you've been told that. I saw the temples at Lamanai and maybe eventually on my own I would have figured out that the other hills are ruins but it wasn't obvious to me at first. They were completely unremarkable to me and looked very much like the limestone hills and outcroppings I'd see around here near some rivers and streams.
Nohmul might be different.
This happens daily in india
The key is that any native from Belize knows that all hills in the flatlands are ruins.
Here, I found of recent picture of Nohmul for you.
That'll teach those bastard Mayans for being wrong about the calander! Almost put the History channel out of business.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
The Maya Complex at Nohmul is not a tourist attraction as it has not been developed. We have several thousand pyramids here and only a few are developed and open for tourists. There is not enough money to develop all of them and some people do not want tourists trampling all over the countryside. Everyone in Belize knows that a hill can be a Maya pyramid. It is only a thin layer of top soil that covers a pyramid. In the north where this event took place it is even easier to determine as the region is flatland, thus any hill more than likely is a pyramid or ceremonial center. Take a look at the picture in this post as Nohmul is being destroyed. http://www.belize.com/no-more-noh-mul-road-contractor-bulldozes-maya-temple.html You will see anyone would immediately know from the first dig the excavator takes, it is a pyramid by the distinctive stones that were hand fitted by the ancient Mayas. Pyramids are destroyed for two main reasons. 1. They provide cheap high-grade road fill. 2. Gold, jade and precious antiquities are million-dollar items eagerly sought by traffickers in the developed world. By destroying the pyramid you destroy any evidence of burial chambers that contain the items - after the items are removed of course.
Bullshit. They excavated the material for road fill, they knew exactly what it was and the quality of the material they would obtain and how much money they would save paying for quarried material trucked to the site. You do not just use any passing dirt for road fill because it will be impossible to compact properly and could be subject to extreme bulking when exposed to water, you do not randomly excavate hills because you do not know what they constitute and how difficult they will be to excavate.
You win the prize for civil construction ignorance as do those who thought your ignorance was informative. Even ancient Romans knew better than you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_roads please check diagram at bottom of article.
The greedy shit head owner of the company knew exactly what they were doing and how much they would save.
Bullshit. They excavated the material for road fill, they knew exactly what it was and the quality of the material they would obtain and how much money they would save paying for quarried material trucked to the site. You do not just use any passing dirt for road fill because it will be impossible to compact properly and could be subject to extreme bulking when exposed to water, you do not randomly excavate hills because you do not know what they constitute and how difficult they will be to excavate.
You win the prize for civil construction ignorance as do those who thought your ignorance was informative. Even ancient Romans knew better than you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_roads please check diagram at bottom of article.
The greedy shit head owner of the company knew exactly what they were doing and how much they would save.
the owner is running for office and needs the money
The tiltle of the originator was "anonymous". In most cases, this title affixes a value of zero to the accompanying text.