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Jolla Announces First Meego Phone Available By End 2013

x_IamSpartacus_x writes "Jolla, the Finnish company that continued Nokia's work on the MeeGo mobile platform, announced details of its first smartphone on Monday. Availability for the Jolla device is expected by year end and can be pre-ordered now; the phone will be priced at no more than €399 (US $512.26). The Jolla hardware looks similar to that of Nokia's Lumia, with a clean, button-less front face that houses the 4.5-inch touchcscreen. The phone will use a dual-core processor and support 4G LTE in some regions. Internal storage tops out at 16 GB, but can be expanded via microSD card. The phone also includes an 8 megapixel rear camera with auto focus. The phone is also 'Android app compliant' which, in a move similar to that of BlackBerry, can help with available apps at launch."

152 comments

  1. sweet by chibiace · · Score: 3, Informative

    hopefully we can get some traction going for this cool project.

    --
    he who controls the spice controls the universe
    1. Re:sweet by chriscappuccio · · Score: 5, Informative

      Meego uses X windows, and other more traditional technologies than android, is just as fast if not faster, and works like 'standard linux' out of the box. That's kinda nice, eh?

    2. Re:sweet by Duncan+J+Murray · · Score: 1

      True Multitasking

    3. Re:sweet by kwark · · Score: 2

      Please explain who the current mobile OS available aren't true multitasking?

    4. Re:sweet by kwark · · Score: 1

      who should of course be how.

    5. Re:sweet by sethstorm · · Score: 1

      Nokia made the point of striking the balance between open and usable before Android existed, especially with the Maemo platform. For example, I've yet to see Android get the connection UI right - where it detects that you're making an internet connection and provides you with a dialog box of available connections (versus quitting or opting for automatic connections).

      Unlike Firefox OS, you'll have a terminal (and more direct access to hardware).
      Unlike Android, it has no carrier-driven limitations.
      Unlike iOS, you won't have to break into your own phone to get it to do what you want it to do.

      --
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    6. Re:sweet by nedwidek · · Score: 1

      And how do you figure this? WebOS has true multi-tasking as does Android. iOS has multi-tasking for Apple's apps and a limited multi-tasking for everyone else.

      Or do you mean multiple windows on the screen at once? On phones that's just silly (screen size makes it impractical). On tablets it's a decent idea and Samsung(?) has done that with Android. The one thing is, how many times do you really need two windows up side by side? Plus since the devices are mobile and power is at a premium, showing only the app the user is interacting with is a really good indicator of which apps need to be quiesced. Any time I'm writing an Android app and I need to do something power intensive that does not need to be long running, I immediately start thinking about how I'm going to implement onPause().

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      Post anonymously - For when your opinion embarrasses even you!
    7. Re:sweet by dtdmrr · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The maemo/meego devices have given users root access out of the box, perhaps you have to take one minor step to indicate you know what that means, but that's about all. These devices are there for you, and don't really try to protect themselves from their users/owners. I haven't seen the sources for sailfish yet, but I gather many of the people at Jolla didn't like the portions of the os that were shipped binary only while they were at nokia. So I'd expect the openness to improve. From the sdk, it looks like they are continuing to use X11, so that means that pretty much any generic arm friendly linux application should run without porting (though there are pleanty of good reasons to specialise/port). For maemo devices, that meant there was just one simple package to install to add a debian chrooted enviroment, which of course gives access to the full debian arm repos.
      Replacable batteries.
      It looks like they have taken an interesting step following that philosophy with enabling functional expansion through interchangable backs.
      Sailfish also has a pretty slick interface. I will hold off on judgement until I get a chance to use it for a while.
      If a user-centric design philosophy (including openness/freedom) doesn't really matter to you, and you don't care about the user interface, yes it's just another phone. But then again, any modern cell phone is essentiall Turing-complete and you can build/connect accessories and power supplies around them. So at a high level of abstraction, no modern phone is distinguishable, nor should we expect to see one any time soon.

    8. Re:sweet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Android doesn't have true multitasking, neither does iOS or Windows Phone. They are all one app at a time with background services.
      This is true multitasking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7emvUBpEkbU
      This demonstrates switching between applications while they are still *actively* running, hell even the thumbnails are updating on the app switching interface. That's on a phone with single-core 600MHz CPU and 256MB RAM.

    9. Re:sweet by kwark · · Score: 4, Informative

      "They are all one app at a time with background services."

      Bullshit:
      -Apps can multitask without Services, just use Threads.
      -Android has multiple window support.

      You are confusing the UI thread being stopped (when it is not visible) with threading/multitasking. Evidence of apps multitasking is for example a Samsung Note2 with multi-window support, although for some reason in the Samsung ROM you only can use some blessed apps multiwindowed, custom ROMs unlock this for app installed apps.

      Using Services give extra features/hints to the OS. Like auto(re)start. It also gives a simple way to detach the UI from lightweight background tasks.

    10. Re:sweet by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      It has multitasking in the sense that your program can call fork() and expect the same behavior as you would get on a "regular" desktop computer.

    11. Re:sweet by nedwidek · · Score: 1

      How in the hell do you figure that? Fork has fuck all to do with the definition of multi-tasking, true or otherwise. Fork is a C language construct that has been carried up into other languages that is only one way to spawn a new process. But even if it were the definition, I can call fork from Android JNI or NDK code (severely frowned on, but doable).

      In android I can spawn services and use broadcast receivers to do exactly the same thing as fork()ing a child and communicating across a pipe. Same semantic, different implementation.

      Multi-tasking is the ability of the OS to run more than one process at a time. Whether it is preemptive or cooperative, time slicing on a single CPU or multiple CPUs. If the OS allows multiple processes to be launched, regardless of whether those processes can fork() children, it is a truly multi-tasking OS.

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      Post anonymously - For when your opinion embarrasses even you!
    12. Re:sweet by citizenr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hopefully app acl list will be USER defined instead of app defined.
      How retarded is it for an app to blackmail you for Contact list/messages and phone calls just so you can play a game? How come its the app that decides and has the upper hand instead of the user? How come App can blackmail me and I cant simply REFUSE to give it data?
      I want to be able to define ACLs per application. I dont give a shit what app wants, it can eat a duck for all I care. Phone status? sure, feed it fake USER DEFINED status. I dont need a game to know that I have GPS enabled. You want GPS data? Sure, let me feed N38 53.86205 W77 2.19162.
      Its my phone damnit!

      --
      Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
    13. Re:sweet by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      I use CyanogenMod, I have no carrier limitations. If I wanted a phone that came, out of the box without limitations, I would get Nexus 4. Of all the other complaints about Android, by Meego Fans, most of them are irrelevant (word of the day), because Android already does it, with the sole exception of X-Windows support. And quite frankly, that is irrelevant on a phone IMHO, that is unless X-Windows can do something better on a 4 in screen that Android, iOS or even Firefox does, it is more irrelevancy. At this point, it doesn't

      --
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    14. Re:sweet by Eunuchswear · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The maemo/meego devices have given users root access out of the box, perhaps you have to take one minor step to indicate you know what that means, but that's about all. These devices are there for you, and don't really try to protect themselves from their users/owners.

      Not actually true with Meego - AEGIS prevents even root from doing various things.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    15. Re: sweet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Android does not have true multitasking. When I switch away from an app I can't be sure that I will come back to it in the same state that I left it in. This is especially annoying with Ajax heavy websites. They just reset to their initial state after I just wrote an email or took a picture.

      My puny little N900 could do this with 256 MB RAM. Why can't my Galaxy S3 with 1 GB do the same?

    16. Re: sweet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That is not Android doing it wrong, but the application doing it wrong. There are events you can implement to solve this problem. And yes it is ironically the stock browser that fails to handle this situation. Opera Mini does this just fine, navigate somewhere and reboot the phone. Restart Opera and you will be where you left.

    17. Re:sweet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It has multitasking in the sense that your program can call fork() and expect the same behavior as you would get on a "regular" desktop computer.

      And i'll be damned if everybody in the cell phone shop wasn't just gagging for that feature!

    18. Re:sweet by exomondo · · Score: 1

      We had that on the N900 and it just fucked up the performance of all the running applications, you have to actively manage what applications are and are not running just to keep it usable. Nice for the niche techie market, pain in the ass for everybody else.

    19. Re:sweet by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Unlike Android, it has no carrier-driven limitations.

      Android doesn't have any carrier-driven limitations.

    20. Re:sweet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      iOS gets closer to what you want there, at least for location and contact(in later versions) data. Unfortunately that means having Apple as a gatekeeper for what you can install.

    21. Re:sweet by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      I haven't seen the sources for sailfish yet, but I gather many of the people at Jolla didn't like the portions of the os that were shipped binary only while they were at nokia. So I'd expect the openness to improve. ... snip ... If a user-centric design philosophy (including openness/freedom) doesn't really matter to you

      I hadn't noticed where the folks at Jolla had committed to an open source stack, do you have a reference?

    22. Re:sweet by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      So what you're saying is that you want a BlackBerry? ;)

      Legacy OS and BB OS 10 both offer this feature. The user is in control for the most part - OS10 doesn't do it quite as well as legacy BB, but it still does it.

    23. Re:sweet by LoneTech · · Score: 1

      You must be playing a different Project Butter than I've seen. It would be a bit better if they got rid of the frequent hangups, often followed by an in-your-face message that the *app* is hung - which only appears after it starts responding again, proving that the UI was as hung as the app. It's not only slow, it's wrong and counterproductive.

    24. Re:sweet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just check their involvement in the Mer and Nemo Mobile projects. :)

  2. good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I really wish them the best of luck with it. Nokia was an awesome company until Elop took over, with some neat things on the horizon. Even as a shareholder, I'm glad there was a mass walk-out of NOK employees and now a new company carries the torch.

  3. Who gets root? by Culture20 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Jolla, service provider, and/or device owner?

    1. Re:Who gets root? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That's what I want to know too. With device owner root and a hardware keyboard this could be an N900 replacement.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    2. Re:Who gets root? by fromhell091 · · Score: 2

      A response from Jolla account in google+ to an asnwer about putting an Ubuntu on Jolla OS: 'It is quite a hackable device, made by hackers'

    3. Re:Who gets root? by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      That's what I want to know too. With device owner root and a hardware keyboard this could be an N900 replacement.

      I was hoping for a keyboard, too, but it looks like "the other half" is more accurately described as "your choice of back colors". Sad smiley.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    4. Re:Who gets root? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > 'It is quite a hackable device, made by hackers'

      Yeaaaaah..... I've heard that one before...

    5. Re:Who gets root? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      It comes down to hardware drivers, Ubuntu (and Firefox) leverages Android device drivers to interface with the hardware, not how easy it would be on this device.

  4. Brace for impact! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the Finnish company that continued Nokia's work on the MeeGo mobile platform...The Jolla hardware looks similar to that of Nokia's Lumia

    I give them a day before Microkia sue them for everything.

  5. looking forward to it by stenvar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As a developer, I'd find an alternative to Java/Dalvik and Objective-C/iOS pretty appealing.

    1. Re:looking forward to it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've had that option since at least January...

    2. Re:looking forward to it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can use more than just Objective-C for iOS. C and C++ work just fine.

    3. Re:looking forward to it by kthreadd · · Score: 1
    4. Re:looking forward to it by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Or HTML5.

    5. Re:looking forward to it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Python & PySide (PythonQt bindings) should be available. :)

    6. Re:looking forward to it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      C and C++ compiler, but they don't have GUI toolkits; in then end, there is no getting around Objective-C on iOS. (And even if there were, C/C++ aren't great languages either.)

    7. Re:looking forward to it by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      As a developer, I'd find an alternative to Java/Dalvik and Objective-C/iOS pretty appealing.

      http://developer.blackberry.com/cascades/.

      You're welcome.

    8. Re:looking forward to it by stenvar · · Score: 1

      Interesting. On paper, it satisfies many of my requirements, but I just hated the last Blackberry device I had... I think I'm going to wait for Ubuntu, MeeGo, and Firefox OS.

    9. Re:looking forward to it by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      Interesting. On paper, it satisfies many of my requirements, but I just hated the last Blackberry device I had... I think I'm going to wait for Ubuntu, MeeGo, and Firefox OS.

      The last blackberry device you had ran an outdated J2ME-based OS. The new one is built atop the POSIX-compliant QNX kernel and in many ways (though not all) is better technology than is offered by the competition. Not specs, but underlying capabilities.

      I'd suggest trying it out before discardng it out of hand. Also - no reason not to develop for both. Qt apps will run just fine on BB10 with minor tweaking, and I suspect on Sailfish as well.

  6. Nice design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looks pretty nice!!

  7. Why no real specs? by h4rr4r · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why are there no real specs? Makes me think this thing will be years out of date.

    I wish them well, but I am not going to settle for something that should have come out in 2011.

    1. Re:Why no real specs? by martinux · · Score: 2

      I agree that specs would be nice. However, as someone who's holding on to a N900 (a peerless mobile device IMHO) I'm just glad that between this and the efforts of the Firefox guys, we may see more open devices that let those of us who are interested in digging around under the hood can look forward to.

    2. Re:Why no real specs? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      I agree, but it will come down to specs for me between another NEXUS device and this. The closed or locked down options just don't exist for me.

    3. Re:Why no real specs? by chriscappuccio · · Score: 2

      The N900 is peerless, until you want a phone that can hold a SIM card, then it literally starts to fail after 3 months. The design is guaranteed to fail and is fucking depressing for such an expensive phone.

    4. Re:Why no real specs? by KiloByte · · Score: 1

      I'm not aware of any widespread problems with N900 and SIM cards (unlike, say, the charging connector).

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    5. Re:Why no real specs? by chriscappuccio · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I was mixing up the N9 with the N900. I have an N9. They are legendary for SIM card problems. Similar to N900 but no keyboard and bad SIM holder...

    6. Re:Why no real specs? by tokiko · · Score: 1

      Huh? I've had my old GoPhone SIM card (still branded as Cingular Wireless) in my N900 for years without any problems. I just swapped it out of my old clamshell and into the N900.

    7. Re:Why no real specs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've got 3 N900s, all 3 of which no longer have a functioning cell modem (or GPS, which seems to fail at the same time). I don't know how widespread the problem is, maybe I'm just very unlucky, but there were certainly others over at the talk.maemo.org forums that had the same problem.

      I still use one as an alarm clock (I like the default alarm on it) and as a remote for MythTV (the keyboard is great for this, I recompiled a CLI program which sends my keypresses over telnet to my MythTV frontend). I also still sometimes take it with me when going out to use to SSH to my home computer. I do love that at its heart it is just Debian Linux with a great touch-friendly UI, but honestly there isn't really anything I want to do with it that I couldn't do on Android.

    8. Re:Why no real specs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I never had any problems with my N9 and never heard about this.

    9. Re:Why no real specs? by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      I've got 3 N900s, all 3 of which no longer have a functioning cell modem

      The sticking a spring on top of the chip trick didn't work for you?

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    10. Re:Why no real specs? by RoccamOccam · · Score: 1

      Count me as another N900 owner with the SIM problem. I tried putting springs and/or bits of heavy paper over mine, and it helped at first. But the problem would always come back, until I couldn't fix it anymore.

    11. Re:Why no real specs? by sethstorm · · Score: 1

      By any chance are those the RX-51, or the more recent RX-51X, which had some sort of radio fix? Not sure if that's why they made a second version of the N900, but that might be something to check out.

      Surprised that you're not complaining about the USB port - I've got two of them thanks to that issue alone. One of them works, the other will have to be charged by the debug port.

      --
      Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
    12. Re:Why no real specs? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      I agree that specs would be nice. However, as someone who's holding on to a N900 (a peerless mobile device IMHO) I'm just glad that between this and the efforts of the Firefox guys, we may see more open devices that let those of us who are interested in digging around under the hood can look forward to.

      But are these really any more open than a Nexus? The closed part of the Android system is at the driver level - which the Firefox and Ubuntu guys use anyway.

    13. Re:Why no real specs? by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I was mixing up the N9 with the N900. I have an N9. They are legendary for SIM card problems. Similar to N900 but no keyboard and bad SIM holder...

      Since the N9 uses a micro-SIM, I could see problems with users cutting their mini-SIMs down to fit. Not all of those punches are created equal, and the x-acto method depends on blade-wielding skill.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    14. Re:Why no real specs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think they are all RX-51s (at least that is what is indicated in /proc/cpuinfo), I didn't know there was a RX-51X.

      I had the USB port go on my first N900 while it was still in warranty, so I got it fixed, after that I filed down the "teeth" (or whatever you call them) on my micro USB plugs so it didn't hold too tight and strain the port, later I also performed the preventative solder fix of applying extra solder around the port to hold it in place.

    15. Re:Why no real specs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the absence of tiny springs (where do you get springs that small anyway) I stuck small bits of rubber to the chips and forced the metal shield back on which should have applied sufficient pressure to hold the chips down and that didn't work with the one I tried it on. I didn't bother with the other two because I assumed that if it worked on them it would only be temporary anyway, and I wanted a phone with newer hardware that actually works properly as a phone.

    16. Re:Why no real specs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Had TWO N900s that had this problem. Very frustrating. Hope this one is better, because I really did love the N900s when they worked!

  8. Hardware-Software Integration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The cool thing is the back cover. It is possible to change it and get new features to the phone. It can unlock content or have a more powerful flash, etc. The call is a "The Other Half".
    http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/20/jollas-other-half/

    1. Re:Hardware-Software Integration by Teun · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the interesting link!

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
  9. market share? by D1G1T · · Score: 2

    If Blackberry and Microsoft with their $Billions can't compete with Google and Apple, how can a tiny project like this?

    1. Re:market share? by asmkm22 · · Score: 1

      They aren't even bothering to go after the US market. They're focusing on smaller, less competitive markets like China, Europe, and North Africa. Markets outside of the US are much less screwed up with monopolies and such.

    2. Re:market share? by Desler · · Score: 0

      China a smaller and less competitive market? You're joking, right? China Mobile alone has more than double the amount of subscribers than there are US citizens.

    3. Re:market share? by mpol · · Score: 2

      > If Blackberry and Microsoft with their $Billions can't compete with Google and Apple, how can a tiny project like this?

      If everyone said that, we would not have Google or Apple. They too started as tiny projects. I wish them well, and hope to see them succeed.
      The Nokia N9 sold well in China. It has allready been in the news that Jolla has good relationships with Chinese and European carriers. They will sell, probably some millions. Who knows where things are going.

      --

      Well, don't worry about that. We can get you back before you leave. (Dr. Who)
    4. Re:market share? by mpol · · Score: 1

      > They aren't even bothering to go after the US market. They're focusing on smaller, less competitive markets like China, Europe, and North Africa.

      The US is the smaller market compared to China.

      You can even blame Nokia, for throwing away their business in Asia and Africa with Symbian, just to try to capture the smaller US market with Windows Phone. And they even hardly succeed with that.

      I expect Jolla to sell quite good in China, and hopefully somewhat in Europe too.

      --

      Well, don't worry about that. We can get you back before you leave. (Dr. Who)
    5. Re:market share? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      China and Europe are neither smaller nor less competitive.
      They are, however, less screwed up with things like market control and lock-in, as you suggest.

    6. Re:market share? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But not more smartphone subscribers.

    7. Re:market share? by Desler · · Score: 1

      They are, however, less screwed up with things like market control and lock-in, as you suggest.

      Ignoring that China Mobile is state-owned, owns the vast majority of the market and the Chinese government both gives it protectionist benefits and frequently interferes in its affairs?

      Less market control in China? That's a good joke.

    8. Re:market share? by Desler · · Score: 1

      Wrong. China surpassed the US in May of last year as the largest smartphone market. Want to try again?

    9. Re:market share? by sethstorm · · Score: 1

      Which is one of the problems, unless you're trying to sneak in some anti-American snark.

      --
      Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
    10. Re:market share? by dropadrop · · Score: 1

      > They aren't even bothering to go after the US market. They're focusing on smaller, less competitive markets like China, Europe, and North Africa.

      The US is the smaller market compared to China.

      You can even blame Nokia, for throwing away their business in Asia and Africa with Symbian, just to try to capture the smaller US market with Windows Phone. And they even hardly succeed with that.

      I expect Jolla to sell quite good in China, and hopefully somewhat in Europe too.

      Nokia has always been obsessed with the US market, but have still been happy with their market share in developing countries. Losing a foothold of the developing countries might not have happened due to trying to gain the US market even more, rather just due to better offering from competitors.

      Working with operators is a big part of success in the US, as such the business model is very different from the rest of the world where most phones are sold directly to the consumer (possibly with a monthly fee, but still more transparently).

    11. Re:market share? by KiloByte · · Score: 2

      Unlike Blackberry and Windows Phone, you can use any Linux desktop software without any modifications. Repackaging stuff for Jolla is a matter of adding some touchscreen adaptations here and there.

      Of course, they could avoided most of the problems by including a physical keyboard.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    12. Re:market share? by evilviper · · Score: 1

      If Blackberry and Microsoft with their $Billions can't compete with Google and Apple, how can a tiny project like this?

      Android started as a tiny project, too.

      And the answer to your question is, as always, to be technically superior. In this case in particular, compatibility with Android apps is a pretty good start, too, making switching much less painful.

      There is an absolute cult following for the N900, due to being basically a full Linux system on a phone, and as a result, every desktop Linux app you could want, not found on any other mobile platform, could be had with MeeGo, such as the NX Client, and many, many others.

      Android isn't bad, but it honestly is more thin-client than full computer... Good SSH client, good VNC/RDP client, but no NX, and no good local terminal emulator and no included local linux command-line commands. The oh-so-nice SSH client (VX Connect Bot) is just a GUI app, so no scripting and automation, X11 forwarding, etc., etc.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    13. Re:market share? by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      In China it's common for people to buy their own phones instead of getting them subsidized from the carrier with a contract. And once they buy those phones, they own them for real: there are no carrier-imposed limits on what apps they can install (or remove), and they are free to jump to another network if they desire. That is what the OP is talking about, I believe.

    14. Re:market share? by kwark · · Score: 1

      Although the usual userland tools are missing, installing them is fairly easy after you got root access. On all devices since my G1 I have been running Debian in a chroot, X11 support is added by running VNC or and X server app. Sure on a meemo/meego device this was out of the box, but all the 2 N900 users I know have long since switched to Android devices. The N9 was never officially available.

    15. Re:market share? by Desler · · Score: 0

      No, they claimed less market control and lock-in which are too separate issues. I was only responding to the former claim. Also the claim above of there being less issues woth monopolies is absurd when state-owned China Mobile has 70% of the market. That's far closer to monopoly than any wireless carrier in the US.

    16. Re: market share? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My guess is that "dragging smaller competitor through courts until it's bankrupt" is harder to pull off in China

    17. Re:market share? by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Running a Linux system in a Chroot, and X11 available only via VNC, is a far cry from a native system.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    18. Re:market share? by Desler · · Score: 0

      Markets outside of the US are much less screwed up with monopolies and such.

      Another absurd claim. China Mobile has 70% market share. That's more market share than Verizon and AT&T combined have in the US.

    19. Re: market share? by Desler · · Score: 0

      How so?

    20. Re: market share? by chill · · Score: 1

      Maybe, but there is always "dragging smaller competitor through the streets until it's bankrupt" is always an option.

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    21. Re:market share? by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Better would be to make the case a shape that would work well with a clip on keyboard. This way those that want a keyboard can have one. Those that don't can have the phone without it, and only one production line needs to be implemented for the phone itself.

    22. Re:market share? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure. China still has relatively few smartphones that are owned by people with the last name of Johnson.

    23. Re:market share? by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      Android started as a tiny project, too.

      Android started as a tiny project when the sum total of the smartphone market was approximately the size of the number of devices that Samsung or Apple sells in a quarter now.

      It's a different world. I wish them luck, but it's an uphill battle.

      And the answer to your question is, as always, to be technically superior.

      BB has tried that route with BB10. It's yet to be determined if they'll succeed - but certainly it's not enough on its own.

      In this case in particular, compatibility with Android apps is a pretty good start, too, making switching much less painful.

      See above.

    24. Re:market share? by Xest · · Score: 1

      By:

      a) Innovating

      b) Not being Microsoft

    25. Re:market share? by Desler · · Score: 1

      Flamebait? Really? Is there some little turd with no life downmodding all my posts in this thread? Christ, get a fucking life.

  10. Android app compliant? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

    Does anyone know specifically what is meant by "android app compliant".

    Presumably, it is able to run the android VM (and API?) in addition to the other software and bring up the results in a window. Is this the case? Does anyone know how?

    Presumably one ought to be able to do that on desktop Linux as well, but I've never seen a method to do it.

    --
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    1. Re:Android app compliant? by frovingslosh · · Score: 1

      It means that if you could get the apk package you might be able to install and run it, but for the vast majority of packages that you want you will not be able to get the file because it is released through the Googlr Play store and you will not ave access to Google Play with this device.

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    2. Re:Android app compliant? by Svartalf · · Score: 1

      Heh... If that were solely the case, you wouldn't have "gapps" for CyanogenMod and the other custom ROMs for Android devices...

      Google Play's in the gapps pack. ;-D

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      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
    3. Re:Android app compliant? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There was a company called Myriad who developed a product called Alien Dalvik that would run Android apps on a N900 running Maemo*, then there was another company whose name I forget who developed something similar and they demoed in on Meego. My guess is if they didn't pay to use one of these products then they developed something similar themselves.

      *As a demonstration, they never released it since there were looking to make deals with OEMs and the like.

    4. Re:Android app compliant? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      It means they have an added library that lets android apps run in a similar, but more complete, way that wine can run MS Windows apps on other systems. The library is closed source and costs a bit which is why you don't see it on desktop linux.

  11. Phone hardware platform with expandability by molukki · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What I found interesting was the concept of extending the phone functionality by changing the back cover. Want a QWERTY phone? No problem, swap the back cover to one with keyboard.

    1. Re:Phone hardware platform with expandability by jovius · · Score: 2

      Same here. It's an intriguing strategy they are trying to pull off. The central Jolla platform is expandable by third party hardware vendors, who can become the other half of the device, not just an external peripheral maker. This kind of modularity will surely become more prevalent in the future, because smaller and smaller parts are made to be smart in some way. The Jolla platform functionality will be quickly copied though, but hopefully the Sailfish OS will connect all together...

    2. Re:Phone hardware platform with expandability by jovius · · Score: 4, Informative

      Just found this quote by Mark Dillon the software director. Essentially anyone can create a cover (the tools are open):

      “Of course we will be offering a choice of Other Halves for the user to buy but this is a place where we want to see others get involved. Designers can design Other Halves for the device, engineers or hackers or techies can design new interfaces and maybe add physical hardware features that they wish they had on their device but might have a smaller market than to deserve having a whole entire device,” he said. “We talked about 3D printing them today. So it could be those kinds of things, but really we’re offering a new kind of interface for a device so that people can really take their imagination, and I believe there will be a lot of third parties and a lot of people who have a lot of great ideas in order to help you use the Other Half of the Jolla device.”

    3. Re:Phone hardware platform with expandability by gmuslera · · Score: 1

      I already was aware of the OS, but the replaceable back cover took me by surprise. It have a lot of disruptive potential. Want keyboard? Better camera? Other sensors? Integrate it with bigger hardware? Could end being the raspberry pi of smartphones.

  12. No keyboard, no care. by sethstorm · · Score: 2

    One of the things about the N900 (and the N950) was that it not only packed a ton of those features, it also had the hardware keyboard.

    I'd rather reflash an N900, warts and all, since this is just an N9++. Let me know when they make something like the N950 with that software on it, except that it's available to all this time around.

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    1. Re:No keyboard, no care. by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Maybe one of the changeable back modules could have a hardware keyboard.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    2. Re:No keyboard, no care. by islisis · · Score: 1

      If only...

  13. ARM vs. x86 for NDK apps by tepples · · Score: 1

    Presumably one ought to be able to [run the Android application environment] on desktop Linux as well, but I've never seen a method to do it.

    Part of the problem is that a lot of popular Android applications use NDK because they're ports of applications from other platforms that aren't written in Java. Most of these aren't compiled for anything but ARM, while desktop Linux is overwhelmingly x86 or x86-64. Applications that heavily use NDK would have to run in an emulator, and by that point, you could just download the Android SDK and emulate a Galaxy Nexus as if it were a Game Boy.

    1. Re:ARM vs. x86 for NDK apps by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      But the NDK fully supports x86 as well as several flavors of ARM. So there's no reason for this to be the case, other than laziness (note that this only started around 1-1.5 years ago, older apps do have an excuse).

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    2. Re:ARM vs. x86 for NDK apps by Svartalf · · Score: 1

      The biggest problem's more that you'd have to make X86 versions and flag for them in the Play store- which is beyond a pain in the *ss.

      There might be some other solutions there, but what you're talking to...that's pretty much a non-starter right at the moment. NDK support's one of the reasons Intel's had "issues" getting Atom into the space over ARM based solutions.

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    3. Re:ARM vs. x86 for NDK apps by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      I think intertia, power consumption, and lack of a value proposition are hurting atom far more than the NDK issue.

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  14. External Bluetooth keyboard by tepples · · Score: 1

    You could always buy a Bluetooth thumb keyboard and carry that.

    1. Re:External Bluetooth keyboard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you have to hold the keyboard and the phone when you want to type something, it would be a lot more inconvenient. In theory, you could use a bluetooth keyboard that clips on to the phone, but the end result would be quite bulky (bulkier than having it built-in) and requires someone to invest in making one that fits or hacking together an ugly diy jobby.

  15. Power Consumption by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    Whether it is by Bluetooth or by something like USB-OTG, a non-native interface would be power-hungry.

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    1. Re:Power Consumption by dtdmrr · · Score: 1

      I still have not seen details about what sort of connectivity is provided to the back, so wouldn't make much in the way of assumptions of how one would connect a keyboard. If they do provide at least USB, that really isn't all that power hungry. If you're using the keyboard heavily, there's a good chance you are also usin far more power hungry systems (display, radios, etc). When not in use, it can be powered down completely.

    2. Re:Power Consumption by sethstorm · · Score: 1

      I was just preempting the usual responses about attaching a keyboard - whether by OTG host or by Bluetooth.

      At least with a GPIO-based keyboard, there is some more control over power usage without the need for the baggage of Another Protocol below it.

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  16. Die, CDMA, die! by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    If we had a real FCC, CDMA would have already been banned by now. This announcement or the unfettered Samsung phone announced at Google I/O is totally moot for all us Verizon Victims (and no; where I live, there is no real choice).

    Personal hardware should be de-coupled from paid services, period.

    1. Re:Die, CDMA, die! by pavon · · Score: 2

      That would have been a short-sighted decision. CDMA was a much better upgrade path form our existing networks than GSM was and better suited for large rural areas, which the US has more of than western/central Europe. Where the FCC screwed up was that the way LTE frequency was allocated let to greater fragmentation, when it should have been an opportunity to improve compatibly and thus competition.

    2. Re:Die, CDMA, die! by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      Where the FCC screwed up was that the way LTE frequency was allocated let to greater fragmentation, when it should have been an opportunity to improve compatibly and thus competition.

      You say that as if it wasn't the intention of FCC. I think that is what the parent poster was talking about, the FCC isn't doing its job in minimizing fragmentation.

    3. Re:Die, CDMA, die! by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      CDMA is being phased out. Sometimes the market works... over a period of decades...

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    4. Re:Die, CDMA, die! by squiggleslash · · Score: 2

      The OP made the point that with GSM hardware is decoupled from paid services, so he was talking about the advantage of the GSM (2GSM, UMTS, LTE) standard.

      The GP is wrong in suggesting that it would have been shortsighted and is using a lot of the myths that Qualcomm spread about GSM to promote that view. Qualcomm could have made a decent phone standard, but they felt the carriers wanted "a digital version of AMPS" and that's pretty much, functionally, what they originally created, with messaging and data being grafted on, clumsily, later, in a game of catch up that they never really won. By the time the TIA standards finally supported SIM cards the carriers were so locked to a SIMless platform they weren't prepared to implement it. And at that point it was pretty much clear that GSM/UMTS standards were so far ahead that Qualcomm would never catch up.

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  17. What I'd like to see is a cheap little stick phone that does phone calls, text messages, and wireless tethering with a one week battery life. That is all I want from a phone. I have a nice smartphone right now, loaded with apps, which I use 99% of the time for phone calls, text messages, and wireless tethering. I bet a whole lot of people would buy one too.

    1. Re: Meh by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I'd buy one just to look at the battery tech that can teather in any meaningful way with a week between charges.

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    2. Re: Meh by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 1

      USB tethering is always an alternative but if I could get five or six solid hours of wireless tethering out of it before needing a recharge that would do just fine.

    3. Re: Meh by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      I easily get six hours of tethering out of my phone now. The phone could hardly be called 'little' by today's standards though.

    4. Re:Meh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Then you come to even more complex options as well. The most interesting thing to me personally is that with other products you have ways to extend them by plugging things in, where as with Jolla devices you may snap on a cover that adds other functionality. For example, if you’re going to a club you might want to snap on a back that has a big flash and maybe a big camera button or something. You might also want additional battery capacity, and you may also use a cover with at thin battery to bring that functionality. The sky is the limit and we’re open for collaboration and ideas here, and these interfaces and features will be open to third parties to allow them to create other apps and features for Jolla." @ http://pocketnow.com/2013/05/20/jolla-interview-marc-dillon

      Just buy "the other half" with an extra battery :P

  18. Is it Freedom Friendly? Thats what I want... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't really care about much else other than it has usable calendaring / syning / wifi / and a decent notes application. Something to replace my M500 that doesn't suck. I'd throw in a stylus if I could too. Then shrink it down, use a b/w screen, and avoid all non-free drivers/firmware components and where those are unavoidable separate them so your modem can't spy on you.

  19. Rational laziness; 50 MB limit on .apk size by tepples · · Score: 1

    So there's no reason for this to be the case, other than laziness

    There is a concept of "rational laziness". Where's the return on investment for making and testing an Android/x86 version of an application? In addition, several applications already appear to be at or near Google Play's 50 MB limit with one architecture alone, such as LibreOffice.

  20. Amazon Appstore by tepples · · Score: 1

    for the vast majority of packages that you want you will not be able to get the file because it is released through the Googlr Play store

    Just because an application is in the Google Play Store doesn't necessarily mean it's not also in Amazon Appstore. Open source applications are less likely to be in Amazon Appstore because of Amazon's $99 per year recurring fee, but they're also more likely to be in F-Droid or to have a downloadable .apk file.

  21. Do I get to be root on this device? by Mirar · · Score: 1

    Maybe they can make the first smartphone that I can be admin on without hacking my own hardware?

    Then I could really imagine buying one just because of that.

    1. Re:Do I get to be root on this device? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe they can make the first smartphone that I can be admin on without hacking my own hardware?

      No, they can't be the first. The N900 (at least) got there first...

    2. Re:Do I get to be root on this device? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Some of the same people are on this project too.

  22. Real multitasking by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 3, Informative

    I used to have an N900 running Maemo with "true multitasking". A poorly-written app in the background (like Firefox with the "full Web experience" of Flash) would run down the battery in two hours. But at least I could use top to find the problem and kill -9 it.

    Now I use Android where apps are specifically written to be aware of my battery.

    1. Re:Real multitasking by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      With great power comes great responsibility.

    2. Re:Real multitasking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This still happens with Android, once in a while I experience huge battery drain without a clear cause. No running apps, nothing in battery status. I suspect a gps related bug. Had it in my 2 last phones, with CM 7.x and Samsug ROMs.

    3. Re:Real multitasking by sd4f · · Score: 1

      My SGS1 had a battery bug where it wouldn't switch off the SoC, so the phone would be idle with screen off in my pocket. The battery would drain from full in about 6 hours. There was no way to see it happening either, unless i checked the battery chart and saw it was depleting quickly, for no reason. A few times i was caught out when it was too late.

  23. Where's the sodding keyboard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The placed a pole on their web side and the majority of responders asked for a keyboard. The development phone they used was the nokia n950 (with a sodding keyboard) which never became available. If it had it may have gone a long way to saving nokia with its sole intact.

    And now, when the people have spoken (by not buying nokia and asking nicely) once again 'nothing doing'. What we get is yet another 'You got choice because you can pick the color' crap.

    Some of us want to do stuff with our phones, not have it match our shoes. Wheres the cluestick when you need it.

    Very very disapointing and no sale.

    And the price

    1. Re:Where's the sodding keyboard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The back cover is more than "you can pick the color' crap", it allows you to add features to the phone and can theoretically fill up every possible niche imaginable with one device.

      Want a pico-projector à-la Galaxy beam? or a better flash to take pictures at night? or wireless charging? or a bigger battery?
      you just change the back cover, and BOO-YAH.

      The sliding physical keyboard is one of the most demanded features for this phone (but still a niche), I'm pretty sure they're gonna make one sooner rather than later.

  24. Second/Third World backwaters don't matter. by sethstorm · · Score: 0

    They sold even more to First World destinations than the WhorePhone, the intended First World device. Nokia was just trying to do everything to kill it for the US and Europe in deference to the crippled WinMo WhorePhones.

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  25. A better Android than Android by amorsen · · Score: 1

    "A better Windows than Windows" was a main selling point of OS/2 2.0. It is argued that few developed for OS/2 because the Windows compatibility was so good that there was little point in doing native applications.

    Is there a risk that the same thing can happen to Meego?

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    1. Re:A better Android than Android by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      Well, that was not the only issue with OS/2. I think IBM had no idea how to reach home users, or didn't really care for OS/2. I recall reading about OS/2, how awesome it was, how it was much better than Windows... and then seeing IBM machines bundled with Windows. I mean, if they won't support their own system, if they won't throw their weight behind it, who would?

    2. Re:A better Android than Android by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      Well, that was not the only issue with OS/2. I think IBM had no idea how to reach home users . . .

      Yeah. A stack of 30-plus floppy discs for the installation is a bit off-putting. So is an unrecoverable error on disc 25 -- "start over". Memories . . .

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
  26. Lame by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

    No keyboard. Less space than an N900. Lame.

    --
    Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    1. Re:Lame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing is actually modular, the back cover is more than just changing the color of the device, it can also bring features, and can theoretically fill up every possible niche imaginable with one device.

      Want a pico-projector à-la Galaxy beam? or a better flash to take pictures at night? or wireless charging? or a bigger battery?
      you just change the back cover, and BOO-YAH.

      The sliding physical keyboard is one of the most demanded features for this phone, I'm pretty sure you're gonna get one sooner rather than later.

    2. Re:Lame by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      The thing is actually modular, the back cover is more than just changing the color of the device, it can also bring features, and can theoretically fill up every possible niche imaginable with one device.

      Where are you seeing anything that indicates the "other half" is anything more than Honda Element-style a choice of colors for part of the phone? I'm looking, but I'm not finding it.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    3. Re:Lame by Teun · · Score: 1
      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
  27. pricing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think the 399 price is the max price only for those who pre-order.
    The public price may be higher

  28. By being a great product? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Simple as that?

    Goggle didn't do ads for itself either in the beginning. It got big on word of mouth. Simply because it was better.

    So: It's *our* job as experts, to be confident and get the word out!

  29. Put on a keyboard by renzhi · · Score: 1

    Put on a keyboard, with decent specs, and I'll get one in a heartbeat. Heck, I'll order 5.

  30. Niche product by tepples · · Score: 1

    When what you want is a niche product that isn't the same thing that the majority of customers are willing to buy, sometimes you have to settle for "quite bulky" and "an ugly diy jobby".

    1. Re:Niche product by funky_vibes · · Score: 1

      A keyboard is hardly a niche product. Some of the worlds best selling phones have had keyboards.
      Palm Tungsten/Treo, Blackberry, Nokia E63/E7x series to name a few.
      On just about all of these phones, the keyboard was very comfortable and easy to use.

      This indicates that a keyboard is more or less a hard requirement for getting any work done, or be able to play action games.

      The shitty keyboards are almost exclusively found on devices where you need to flip it out, most of which (apart from N900), have unsurprisingly, not been successful.

      Maybe there's something to be said for having a large display that you flip out only when you need it, instead?

  31. Look at the FCC ID. by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    At least you were lucky enough to catch it in time. If you look at the FCC ID of units from both revisions, you'll see the RX-51X that I'm talking about.

    The other sure way to tell is if you have to use Pali's bootloader in the place of the bootloader used to load Nemo(Meego) or Android(GB/ICS if you want a strict tablet w/o non-VOIP data services)

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  32. Wait, whut? by pugugly · · Score: 1

    In testing the Mi-Go Phone did have some sound problems, occasional whispering effects, and a small percentage of violent madness. Also a somewhat larger percentage of non-violent madness, whimpering, screaming in the dark, fetal position, and hallucinations.

    On the good side, unlimited data plan, and discounted rates for Miskatonic University students and faculty.

    Pug

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