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German Railways To Test Anti-Graffiti Drones

Posted by samzenpus on from the eye-in-the-sky dept.

garymortimer writes "Germany's national railway company, Deutsche Bahn, plans to test small drones to try to reduce the amount of graffiti being sprayed on its property. The idea is to use airborne infra-red cameras to collect evidence, which could then be used to prosecute vandals who deface property at night. A company spokesman said drones would be tested at rail depots soon."

137 of 208 comments (clear)

  1. Anti-Gravity! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    At first glance I was extremely excited to hear about anti-gravity trains, but then my joy was quickly destroyed by graffiti.

    1. Re:Anti-Gravity! by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      I think they all called Maglev

    2. Re:Anti-Gravity! by Internetuser1248 · · Score: 1, Funny

      As a loyal customer of Deutsche Bahn, I would just like to say: The paint jobs on the trains are as boring as snot, please pay graffiti artists to liven them up.

  2. In other recursive news by daniel.garcia.romero · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Germany's national railway company, Deutsche Bahn, plans to test small drones to try to reduce the theft of small drones introduced earlier. The idea is to use airborne infra-red cameras to collect evidence, which could then be used to prosecute vandals who steal property at night. A company spokesman said drones would be tested at rail depots soon."

    1. Re:In other recursive news by mjwx · · Score: 1

      "Germany's national railway company, Deutsche Bahn, plans to test larger, armed drones to try to reduce the theft of small drones introduced earlier. The idea is to use airborne infra-red cameras to collect evidence, which could then be used to prosecute vandals who steal property at night. A company spokesman said drones would be tested at rail depots soon."

      Fixed that for ya.

      Germany's national railway company, Deutsche Bahn plans to build bunkers and rally the survivors after the introduction and subsequent rebellion of armed drones.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    2. Re:In other recursive news by EETech1 · · Score: 1

      Turns out an empty spray paint can can really wreck havoc on a single rotor craft, quad rotors are currently being updated to give themselves the capability to 'limp home' on just 3 rotors to foil these artists once and for all.

    3. Re:In other recursive news by mpe · · Score: 2

      Germany's painters plan to test 99c balaclavas to try to reduce the evidence collected by 9,900 â airborne drones with infra-red cameras. A spokesman for the painters said it will protect their skin from chemical agents too.

      They also plan on testing how well the drones function after being spray painted.

    4. Re:In other recursive news by Lotana · · Score: 1

      Following inspiration from video games, quad rotors have been programmed to attack vandals with their rotor blades.

      In other unrelated news, crowbars have experience a large surge in sales.

    5. Re:In other recursive news by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      Sadly, HEV suits are still rare and hard to come by.

    6. Re:In other recursive news by mbeckman · · Score: 1

      Drone usage is exploding, and it's unregulated for the most part. Where it is regulated (as in a new Texas bill forbidding most drone usage by civilians), the regulations favor government use, which generally leads to a loss of privacy. Check out http://drones.jet.net/ to see how drones are abusing freedom.

  3. Techy drone-boners must stop. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    What's the point?

    Is graffiti on train cars such a massive problem in society that it warrants spending tax dollars, or jacked up rates for shipping customers?

    This seems like another case of trying to find a non-evil use for all these drones being engineered which really aren't very useful except for mostly-evil things.

    1. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I once listened to a German rant about their mass transit system. And how they did not staff even enough employees to manage ticketing appropriately and how they would basically bully people for riding the train even if they refused to sell tickets to a large group. Even of those people were willing to pay for tickets at the destination.

      They need to pull their heads out their asses and start running their business like a real business rather then a public works program.

    2. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't know about our neighbors to the north, but here in Austria, theft of copper cables appears to be a much worse problem.

    3. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by toutankh · · Score: 1, Informative

      Don't worry, the spray paint lobby will talk to the right persons and make this nonsense stop.

    4. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by icebike · · Score: 1

      Well set out side of Germany and the stories told by Germans is all about how wonderful the German trains system are, and how advanced they are compared to anything else in the world, and how everyone could take a lesson from Germany.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    5. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by xaxa · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm not German, but their railway is very good.

      A group ticket for five people for a 120km journey last week (on a week-day) cost EUR35. We were over an hour early, due to a tail-wind on the flight, and were surprised that the booked ticket was still valid for the earlier train.

      A similar journey in the UK (where I live) would have cost a *lot* more, like EUR15-20 each, and we couldn't have got the earlier train without buying new tickets. However, the British train would probably have been longer (more space) and faster. (The German high-speed ICE is faster than the British intercity trains, but the German local trains seem to be slower than normal British trains.)

      Oh, and the German trains and surroundings definitely have more graffiti. So does Germany in general.

    6. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by flayzernax · · Score: 2

      People can be overly critical of a good system on a bad day if they have high expectations from it.

    7. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by schnipschnap · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Graffiti is a huge problem in Germany. All the graffiti is really embarrassing when I'm in Berlin with people from abroad.
      Less graffiti probably means more tourists and less service outages because the train you were supposed to take is currently being cleaned, so there you get your tax dollars right back. (Not to mention that getting caught means you have to foot the bill for the removal of your graffiti, and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be too much of a hassle to get you to pay some fraction of whatever the drones and their infrastructure cost, too.)
      And most important, less graffiti also means fewer people stressed from eye cancer, and possibly fewer people who think it's okay to be a criminal.

    8. Re: Techy drone-boners must stop. by Cenan · · Score: 2

      It's the same north of Germany. We see a lot of cable copper theft, I don't think anyone cares about the graffiti - this sounds like someone tried to find an angle for the story but knew jack shit about the situation. A camera on a stick is equally good at spotting thieves and vandals.

      --
      ... whatever ...
    9. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      To be honest, I envy a country where graffity is the biggest problem with the railway, and where people are embarrassed of it instead of accepting it resignatedly.

    10. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Seriously? You want to reduce capacity tenfold and increase power usage (see watt/person for the motor, transmission losses, wheel friction, etc.) just so that you get small individual pods?
      I'm Swiss, and as someone who spends between 15 and 60 minutes daily on a train, I think that every country without an extensive and saturated train network is underdeveloped. The Germans barely qualify ;P.
      Sure I can use my car, but it's often clearly the inferior option since trains (resp. public transport in general) go pretty much everywhere.

      captcha: closer

    11. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by xaxa · · Score: 3, Informative

      People can be overly critical of a good system on a bad day if they have high expectations from it.

      Believe me, I know. I'm British, and live in London.

      On holiday in Germany, my friends mostly complained about how bad British [everything] was in comparison, which gets old pretty quickly. I think it's worse than the general complaining -- without comparison -- back in Britain, since at least there I can pretend people haven't travelled much and don't know any better.

    12. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by roman_mir · · Score: 3, Interesting

      At least when graffiti is found under bridges and on old rusty depot buildings around rail roads (you'll see this in Strasbourg for example) it's tolerable, because those bridges and buildings are truly ugly, I mean depressingly ugly.

      When the train cars are being vandalised this way it's just retarded.

      --
      You can't handle the truth.
    13. Re: Techy drone-boners must stop. by al.caughey · · Score: 1

      A camera on a stick is equally good at spotting thieves and vandals.

      But not so effective without the aforementioned copper bits to supply the power.

      What's the comparable scrap value of a drone?

    14. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by Runaway1956 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Read AC's post.

      Trains are fuel efficient. Right here in the US, it's been demonstrated that a train can move freight for a small fraction of the cost that trucks can move freight. The only problem with trains here, is that they are never on time. You can't send a refrigerated car filled with vegetables from Yuma to Philadelphia, because you never know when it will arrive. An 18-wheeler gets it there reliably, in 4 days with a solo driver, 2 days with team drivers. But - the COST is ridiculous.

      If the idiots who manage the trains could just figure out how to SCHEDULE the damned things, we could save tons of money on everything.

      Including passenger service.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    15. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by zmooc · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I visited Germany recently and enjoyed the graffiti tremendously. While there's some utter crap, I found the graffiti to be of significantly higher quality than what I typically encounter in my home country.

      Less graffiti probably means more tourists (...)

      I highly doubt that - possibly even on the contrary. Graffiti is an important part of what makes Berlin Berlin.

      --
      0x or or snor perron?!
    16. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by icebike · · Score: 1

      I'm wondering what people you spoke to.

      German tourists in the US. Do you require names?

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    17. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by VortexCortex · · Score: 2

      Save the money on drones. Legalize it. Reward the more artistic ones. Televise the awards, add commercials, Make money off them.

      But won't that just make graffiti worse? NI! I say Ni! at you!! It will make the folks doing graffiti STOP. They won't want to be seen as "working for the man" and all that jazz.

      Remove the challenge, don't escalate it. The taggers already out-do each other to get to tag even more insane spots without getting caught. If anyone can just spray paint anything, no one will.

    18. Re: Techy drone-boners must stop. by mrbester · · Score: 1

      There's solar panels and turbines for power. Hook that up to a wireless / cellular / microwave network and you can park it anywhere on the rail network.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    19. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by gl4ss · · Score: 2

      If you want those bridges to be painted, then go through the appropriate channels. There is never an excuse to illegally graffiti.

      sure there is. first off it's cheap. second, sometimes it's funny. third, it's convenient since going through "appropriate channels" is boring, takes years and results in boring shit being approved.

      just plain boring gang tagging on the other hand or embarrassingly ugly IRA murals etc shit..

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    20. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by flayzernax · · Score: 1

      NO government service should EVER be treated as a for-profit business.

      I agree this is a bad idea.

      I was thinking like an American. Our shitty train transit is privatized ;p You may be right in your case.

      Actually the few passenger cars that do run are not bad. I liked the trains in NYC and the ones that went to the smaller cities outside of it. They work fairly well in my humble opinion. The few times I used them as a visitor. They are a far cry more imperfect then the stories I hear about European trains though.

    21. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by snowjest · · Score: 2

      Can you back that capacity claim up with some hard facts?

      I've done some calculations based on the main London-Bristol line in the UK that runs close to where I live. Based on a 500 seat train passing every 5 minutes during the peak, that's 6000 passengers per hour*. Compare this with cars traveling at 100km/h, each 10m apart carrying 1 passenger, that's 10000 passengers per hour. (*My guess for the train seems to be more or less in line with the offical UK stats at http://assets.dft.gov.uk/statistics/releases/rail-passenger-numbers-and-crowding-on-weekdays-2011/rail-passengers-crowding-2011.pdf that show's approx 5000 passengers per hour at Bristol, of which my main line is only one of 4 routes into the city)

      As for the power, suffice to say that if the politicians can sort out the renewables then that won't be an issue.

    22. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by snowjest · · Score: 1

      I'm British, and for what it is worth, my car does 50+ mpg.

    23. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by fisted · · Score: 1

      The trains are nice. The company isn't. For instance, when you see how they are 'unexpectedly caught by a sudden onset of winter', every single damn winter.. You really have got to wonder what keeps them from learning that this 'winter' thing is an annual event.

      --
      CLI paste? paste.pr0.tips!
    24. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      And the billboards in Europe are mostly, in the local language, "New from America! (some porn service nobody's heard of in the US)"

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    25. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by fisted · · Score: 1

      the actual funny thing about his idea is that AC thinks four wheels and a road are inherent requirements for autonomous vehicles.

      --
      CLI paste? paste.pr0.tips!
    26. Re: Techy drone-boners must stop. by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      There's solar panels and turbines for power. Hook that up to a wireless / cellular / microwave network and you can park it anywhere on the rail network.

      Great idea. Should be worth something on the black market.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    27. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by fisted · · Score: 1

      i actually like it

      --
      CLI paste? paste.pr0.tips!
    28. Re: Techy drone-boners must stop. by shitzu · · Score: 1

      More like 35000 fatalities.

    29. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      It's not limited to long distance rail here either. Local trains in chicago, NY, Washington DC, and pretty much everywhere else are never on time. In Japan? They're like a few seconds late if there's a typhoon and earthquake simultaneously. The Japanese government is a bureaucratic nightmare, and they obviously have gigantic auto manufacturers lobbying the government as well, so I'm skeptical that government interference and/or car manufacturer sabotage contributes.

      I think it really must be that the past few generations of Americans have low expectations for trains and public transit, so they don't demand better service from trains. When the subway is late in Tokyo, everyone is upset and demands improvements. When it's late in New York, everyone is upset but says "Ah, it's always late" and they just shoot someone.

    30. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by GNious · · Score: 1

      German ticket-prices make NO sense.
      Went to Köln last summer.
      Regular ticket: 35 euro
      First class ticket: 28 euro

    31. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by tirefire · · Score: 1

      I visited Germany recently and enjoyed the graffiti tremendously. While there's some utter crap, I found the graffiti to be of significantly higher quality than what I typically encounter in my home country.

      USian here, where graffiti is promptly removed, thankfully, because it's usually awful. But I think I know what you mean about Berlin, though I haven't been there personally. I have, however, been to Athens, Greece (around 2007). I swear, that city is just about the ideal environment for graffiti artists:

      a. Nearly every building is made from concrete; my tour guide told me that there is a large concrete industry in Athens and that it is basically always the most economical building material.
      b. Generally, plain concrete is irrepressibly bland, drab and awful to look at.
      c. It's a "Mediterranean country", apparently; I asked a few of the locals, young and old, about the graffiti and their attitudes ranged from indifference to mild appreciation. Even the cops didn't seem to care - I asked one for directions once, and he encouraged me to check out some good graffiti a couple streets away from my destination. I was surprised at how relaxed the locals were about the whole thing.

      Practically every wall of every building was screaming "I AM A BLANK CANVAS". Simple tags and anarchy signs were everywhere. Many city blocks had at least one elaborate spray-painted mural. Oddly, nobody seemed to spray-paint over one another's work; I guess there was just so much free space...

      But at any rate, I took way more photos of the graffiti I encountered than of the Parthenon or any other famous landmarks. I'm glad I visited the place before all the riots started.

    32. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      And here in London

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    33. Re: Techy drone-boners must stop. by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      Bearing in mind most of the time these drones will be active is when the trains aren't running why not have the charge from the overhead supply the trains use?

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    34. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by telchine · · Score: 1

      Graffiti is an important part of what makes Berlin Berlin.

      Agreed; it Takes My Breath Away!

    35. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by daem0n1x · · Score: 1

      Go to Germany. Their mass transit system kicks fucking ass.

      Of course, nobody is ever happy with what they have.

      People in Uganda complain about having to walk 10 Kms under the sun every day to get a bucket of dirty water. People in Manhattan throw a fit because the café they're in is out of strawberry-flavoured sparkling water and they have to settle for the blackberry-flavoured one.

    36. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by steg0 · · Score: 1

      this happens in Summer too, like 2010/2011, when hm, surprisingly high temperatures knocked out a number of trains' AC systems ('Schienensauna'). Bottom line is it shouldn't be too hot nor too cold, nor too wet/windy, then the system works well enough. Except sleeper trains, that often accumulate 30+ min delays regardless of environmental conditions. I still use them often enough though because short-distance flights can suck, too (like sitting on the runway for one hour until you get the slot from the destination airport...)

    37. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      Really??? overrated for something that's on topic, addresses the thread and poses an opinion people can agree/disagree with?

      Oh well....

    38. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by N+Monkey · · Score: 1

      Graffiti is a huge problem in Germany. All the graffiti is really embarrassing when I'm in Berlin with people from abroad.

      Not train related, but on a visit to Koln I was saddened to see the amount of graffiti covering the cathedral.

    39. Re:Techy drone-boners must stop. by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Can you back that capacity claim up with some hard facts?

      I've done some calculations based on the main London-Bristol line in the UK that runs close to where I live. Based on a 500 seat train passing every 5 minutes during the peak, that's 6000 passengers per hour*. Compare this with cars traveling at 100km/h, each 10m apart carrying 1 passenger, that's 10000 passengers per hour. (*My guess for the train seems to be more or less in line with the offical UK stats at http://assets.dft.gov.uk/statistics/releases/rail-passenger-numbers-and-crowding-on-weekdays-2011/rail-passengers-crowding-2011.pdf that show's approx 5000 passengers per hour at Bristol, of which my main line is only one of 4 routes into the city)

      Minimum safe distance for cars traveling at 100 km/h with the 2 second rule is 55 meters, not 10. Driving at lower distances often leads to "breaking waves" and thus to congestion.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  4. Anti-gravity by Koyaanisqatsi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Raise your hand if you read that too.

    Paint me disappointed :(

    1. Re:Anti-gravity by javajawa · · Score: 1

      Saw it... not entirely sure if it was intentional, or not... vaguely reading the comments to see how many people are commenting on anti-gravity without reading the summary.

      --

      Meh

    2. Re:Anti-gravity by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      I raise your hand (if only to keep your Life Ouf of Balance).

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    3. Re:Anti-gravity by msauve · · Score: 1

      "Anti-gravity."

      The opposite of gravity is comedy.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    4. Re:Anti-gravity by Koyaanisqatsi · · Score: 1

      awesome, thanks!

      (is this change in balance enough for me to claim "life in transformation" now?)

  5. Germany vs. USA by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1

    If America was involved, our drones would "fix" the graffiti with a Hellfire missile. I like the German solution better.

    Ironic that 60 years later, we're more inclined to use killer flying robots to assassinate our enemies than are the Germans.

    1. Re:Germany vs. USA by PPH · · Score: 3, Funny

      I like the American solution better. Its been shown to reduce recidivism.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Germany vs. USA by fermion · · Score: 1

      this is what I was thinking. Put Rand Paul in charge of it and blow the kids with spray paint away, don't care if a cop or drone does it.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    3. Re:Germany vs. USA by mianne · · Score: 1

      We could reach a happy medium... Why not arm the drones with solvents and/or paint sprayers... They can immediately remove or paint over any exterior graffiti, which would destroy the appeal of tagging in the first place. Bonus.. they can tag the perpetrators too facilitating their identification, arrest, and conviction.

      --
      Javascript, cookies, flash, and ActiveX must be enabled in order to view this sig.
  6. Smile! by game+kid · · Score: 1

    *whirrrrrrrrrr* *tick tick*

    --
    You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
  7. The same here! by mha · · Score: 1

    EXACTLY what happened to me - for 1/10 of a second I thought I was reading about anti-GRAVITY in trains. Then I suddenly remembered which lousy century I was born into and it all fell apart even before the part of my brain responsible for reading comprehension could finish its job.

    1. Re:The same here! by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Then I suddenly remembered which lousy century I was born into

      Well, and I read this sentence of yours as "which lousy country" and thought that you were a compaining German DB customer. :-) (BTW, I've also read it as anti-gravity. I guess I need new glasses! I've heard Google started making some nice ones...)

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    2. Re:The same here! by fisted · · Score: 1

      > compaining
      You Fucking Name It.

      Can't wait for the first of those drones to be properly bombed.

      --
      CLI paste? paste.pr0.tips!
    3. Re:The same here! by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      > compaining

      You Fucking Name It.

      It's such an easy mistake to make... :-D

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  8. Expensive high-tech instead of simplicity by ReallyEvilCanine · · Score: 2

    Simply turning off the fucking floodlights wouldn't just save DB a fortune on juice, it makes vandal highly visible. You can't tag if you can't see; any light is a give-away. But since DB can count on continued tax money and political support -- and because no bureaucrat or middle manager ever got ahead by reducing waste or head count -- they'll spearhead the use of drones. The justice ministry and police will follow.

    1. Re:Expensive high-tech instead of simplicity by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 1

      Or they could just use dogs, or security guards, or coat the carriages in something that resists spray paint.

    2. Re:Expensive high-tech instead of simplicity by Common+Joe · · Score: 1

      Turning off the floodlights won't work in the summer time. I live in northern Germany and I was coming home from my class last night at 10:00 PM. I could have pulled out my novel and easily read it because of the sunlight coming through the heavy clouds. There were no street lights around either. It simply does not get dark in Winter until very late and the sun rises pretty early.

    3. Re:Expensive high-tech instead of simplicity by mpe · · Score: 1

      Simply turning off the fucking floodlights wouldn't just save DB a fortune on juice, it makes vandal highly visible. You can't tag if you can't see; any light is a give-away.

      As well as obvious to cameras. Yet the idea that lighting things up "deters crime" continues to exist.

    4. Re:Expensive high-tech instead of simplicity by Eimai · · Score: 1

      There are people working the entire night at these depots (cleaners, drivers preparing their trains, technicians doing repairs etc), and they may want to be able to see something themselves... And yes, even with all these people working in the depot, they still manage to spray their graffiti. Being a train driver myself, I've seen it happening: it takes them ten minutes to paint the trains and before you manage to get the security or the police over there they're already gone (they usually just run away when someone approaches but I'm not taking that risk, and I still hope one day they manage to catch them red-handed).

  9. Re:obviously by icebike · · Score: 1

    But it largely worked on the trains. Nobody saw the graffiti, and the taggers went elsewhere.

    I assume your argument is that we should have let them paint the train, in the vain hope that it wouldn't spread to buildings.
    Pretty short sited, in that graffiti on buildings preceded trains.

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  10. Total surveillance will stop crime by joe_frisch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We can stop essentially all crime, or at least prosecute it after it happens by installing surveillance everywhere. We need to decide where we are willing to use this technology. This particular application seems pretty harmless - as long as the railway companies don't decide that now that they have the drones they might as well monitor employee efficiency.....

    1. Re:Total surveillance will stop crime by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      different concept from this article, a company policing its own property with surveillance system. no different from you or I doing it for our business or home. police can subpoena for records.

    2. Re:Total surveillance will stop crime by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      We can stop essentially all crime, or at least prosecute it after it happens by installing surveillance everywhere

      Well I suppose one could you take a look at the UK and their surveillance everywhere idea and how it's not doing squat for reducing crime rates. Rather with fewer bodies on the ground, criminals know exactly when and where to hit because of how long it takes police to respond. And how to foil the system as well.

      Really if they wanted to reduce graffiti, they'd have people on the ground doing patrols. It works, even if it's random. They don't need to be peace officers, or the german equivalent but rather min. wage patrollers who watch high value targets and can call in police. Arm them with camera's and some stuff for self defense and call it a day.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    3. Re:Total surveillance will stop crime by Hentes · · Score: 1

      The German railway unions wouldn't be happy with that.

    4. Re:Total surveillance will stop crime by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Well I suppose one could you take a look at the UK and their surveillance everywhere idea and how it's not doing squat for reducing crime rates.

      Care to share your source that proves it does squat regarding crime rates, for any single area in the United Kingdom?

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    5. Re:Total surveillance will stop crime by flayzernax · · Score: 2

      Vandalizing property is not speech guy.... Not saying graffiti doesn't have any merits. Just that your comparing apple to oranges. If the paint like washed off with the rain it would be more like free speech.

    6. Re:Total surveillance will stop crime by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Easy enough. And an extra. POP is considered the defacto source for police services around the world if you're wondering.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    7. Re:Total surveillance will stop crime by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      I only read your second link. Page 129, it identified that CCTV showed there was a reduction of crime in CCTV areas compared with non-CCTV areas. That doesn't fit with your argument for "not doing squat for reducing crime rates". It has identified that it reduced the crime rates in CCTV areas in New Castle.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  11. Re:Smile! - tick ... tick ... FIRE! by ziani · · Score: 1

    Followed by a burst of some sort of disabling agent to hold them until the police arrive?

  12. Weird exercise by Reliable+Windmill · · Score: 1

    What a weird exercise in spending and modernization. It will be cheaper and simpler to just install more lighting and hire some security guards.

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  13. Re:obviously by flayzernax · · Score: 1

    Or hire human guards. You know. Employing a few people to politely escort the kids out of the train station. I would do that job. Would have no problem detaining the ones that would not politely leave.

  14. Rudy's Plan by craigminah · · Score: 1

    I think Rudy Giuliani's plan was better (need to disable ad-blocker for NBC video to play): http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/graffiti/n11050/

  15. Fix a paintball gun on them by Hentes · · Score: 5, Funny

    and give the vandals a taste of their own medicine.

    1. Re:Fix a paintball gun on them by xenobyte · · Score: 1

      This is actually a seriously great idea!

      Create some kind of Gatling paint gun firing 500-1000 paint balls a minute at very high velocity and use that. Any vandals hit would be knocked down and completely covered in paint. Even if he got up and away, he'll be easy to find due to the extreme amount of paint on him. Use a paint that easily removable from the trains but hard to remove from skin and clothing. Now that's a taste of their own medicine!

      --
      "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
    2. Re:Fix a paintball gun on them by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      Use Ultra Violet Paint like they use in Stoppa Spray http://www.stoppashop.co.uk/ that way the targets wont even know they're painted if you'll pardon the pun :D

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

  16. Public murals by Ol+Biscuitbarrel · · Score: 1

    When I was in Germany in the late 80s I remember seeing a big Hamburg apartment complex covered in graffiti. Seems they still have them: Graffiti Apartment Building – Berlin, Germany | sketchy.com, just one of many examples you can find. But apparently it isn't enough to keep vandalism from occurring.

  17. Employee Efficiency by PPH · · Score: 1

    If shareholders could build a drone to track their companies CEO and other officers and make sure they are getting an honest day's work for their pay, I'm all for it.

    The ROI for tracking thousands of minimum wage grunts around to save a few pennies isn't worth it. One drone to keep an eye on $5 million a year? It could pay off.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  18. Instead of hunting graffiti by prefec2 · · Score: 1

    They should fix their trains and tracks so the trains are no longer later that often. Since they started becoming a privatized company, they raised prices and lowered service quality. They let the infrastructure rot and the new infrastructure they build is crumbling after five years.

    Maybe they should send armed drones after the management.

    BTW: The former CEO of the German railway is now in charge of the not yet completed new airport Berlin-Brandenburg. ;-)

    1. Re:Instead of hunting graffiti by Archon-X · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You realise that often times train delays are caused by graffiti?

      The London Tube essentially killed graffiti by refusing to run any trains with any graffiti at all - panels or throwups.

      Obviously, this leads directly to delays.
      Furthermore, if the company is dropping 10M on cleaning per year, that's 10M on maintenance that it's (presumably) not spending..

  19. Graffiti strike drones! by Plazmid · · Score: 1

    It's only a matter of time now before someone mounts a stencil and a servo actuated sprayer on a quadcopter and starts putting graffiti in places that are difficult to reach!

  20. Re:obviously by icebike · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Or hire human guards. You know. Employing a few people to politely escort the kids out of the train station. I would do that job. Would have no problem detaining the ones that would not politely leave.

    It doesn't happen in the train station.

    Its actually when the trains are parked that they get spray painted. Some of this Graffiti are elaborate works of (misplaced) art, that take hours to apply.

    Railroads are starting to fence off their switch and storage yards, and put cameras high up on polls, which makes far more sense than a drone. One guy can watch 50 cameras, but each drone takes a separate operator to fly and monitor.

    Drones are a stupid idea.

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  21. Re:The New Kind by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

    I think if this cheesy, childish and dubstep-overfilled series had become popular...

    ...then we'd know what the hell you were talking about.

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    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  22. I don't understand this at all. by cvnautilus · · Score: 1

    Couldn't you just use cameras? What possible advantage do expensive flying drones have?

    1. Re:I don't understand this at all. by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Couldn't you just use cameras? What possible advantage do expensive flying drones have?

      Perhaps it's cheaper to deploy a few drones randomly, than to mount cameras all over the place? Suppose you have a thousand places that are graffiti targets. That would require a thousand cameras at, say $1000/pop to deploy (assuming a single camera can take in the entire target). That's a million dollars. For that kind of money you can get drones that will patrol those places, covering nooks and crannies that a fixed camera couldn't, and you have the added benefits of being able to follow the perpetrator, or have them flee from the noise of the drone.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  23. Half Life 2 by xdor · · Score: 1

    Combine monitor drones first appearance traced back to dealing with graffiti at railroad stations...

    1. Re:Half Life 2 by nukenerd · · Score: 1

      First mention of Half-Life. Its drones are what sprang to my mind immediately.

      I find the shotgun is the best way to bring them down.

  24. Re:The New Kind by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    First episode opened with a scene with some teenagers trying to graffiti a wall while avoiding surveillance drones.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  25. Unintended Consquences. by hEpen · · Score: 1

    This is the best way to cultivate anti-drone technology. Use drones to fuck with bored youth that have discretionary income.

  26. Re:Demolition Man by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

    Me too, however after coming back to 2013 I thought that oleophobic coating would solve the problem at the source.

    --
    Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
  27. Cue defaced drones... by SharpFang · · Score: 1

    ...in 3...2...1...

    I can imagine them dragging wide ribbons with guerrilla art across the public space.

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  28. Paintball by Cyfun · · Score: 1

    Sounds like a great way to practice your paintball skills.

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    In Soviet Russia, dot slashes YOU!
  29. Why drones? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

    Why not regular surveillance cameras? Why should it be air borne?

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    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  30. Rheinmetall by TuringCheck · · Score: 2

    Next move is to install some of the "other" Rheinmetall products on the drones and the grafitti problem will be solved fully automatically >:->

    1. Re:Rheinmetall by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Next move is to install some of the "other" Rheinmetall products on the drones and the grafitti problem will be solved fully automatically >:->

      Me thinks the smallest Rheinmetal products would be far to heavy for small drones. Maybe you were thinking of Gloch.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  31. They should consider the art alternative by aepervius · · Score: 1

    In my home city they painted graffiti over, then tried some paint which was washable. To no avail and great cost.

    Then they came to a very simple idea : ask a few artist and grafiti maker to make a painting , real art, with a subject.

    Not only those are beautiful, but grafiti maker seems to respect those are and only tags blank walls..

    --
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    visit randi.org
    1. Re:They should consider the art alternative by pmontra · · Score: 1

      Same problem here in Italy and same solution.

    2. Re:They should consider the art alternative by mrbester · · Score: 1

      I pass a memorial to Skeam every morning on the way to Waterloo East. No tagger has ever touched it and the authorities have left it alone too.

      Then again since Tox and Dean got sent down there's been a lot less new tagging around.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    3. Re:They should consider the art alternative by coxymla · · Score: 1

      We have plenty of murals of differing styles and qualities of artwork and they all get ugly tags right over the top of them.

      Perth, WA.

    4. Re:They should consider the art alternative by xenobyte · · Score: 1

      The only way to fix the graffiti problem (on trains) is to guard the parked trains using guards, dogs and electric fences with razor wire. If done right the trains can be kept clean except for quick tags done on trains in service. Of course you will see 'artists' (vandals) getting bitten, cut, electrified and arrested but soon even these morons learn and find other things to break.

      --
      "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
  32. Re:obviously by compro01 · · Score: 2

    One guy can watch 50 cameras, but each drone takes a separate operator to fly and monitor.

    Depends on how autonomous the drones are. An autopilot system running them around defined points (and allowing you to take manual control to get better view if you see something happening) shouldn't be too difficult.

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    upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
  33. Re:obviously by Minwee · · Score: 1

    Railroads are starting to fence off their switch and storage yards, and put cameras high up on polls,

    What I don't understand is who keeps voting for all of those cameras, and how come they do so well in the polls.

  34. Re:obviously by icebike · · Score: 1

    And cost effective too compared to a less than $200 dollar pole mounted cameras.
    The more autonomous you try to make it the higher the cost. And when the vandals fling a chunk of dog chain at it, the total investment is lost.

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  35. Just ban spray paint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Hey, it makes about as much sense.

    "Reducing graffiti" is just a ruse to get people to accept it. In no time it will just be used for general surveillance.

  36. Re:obviously by camperdave · · Score: 1

    One guy can watch 50 cameras, but each drone takes a separate operator to fly and monitor.

    A drone takes an operator? What kind of zinc plated, vacuum tube cultured rock did you climb out from under.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  37. WTF by BlackPignouf · · Score: 3

    Sorry, but WTF Deutsche Bahn???
    There have been 3 trains that derailed in Stuttgart last year, and one runaway train that luckily didn't kill anybody because it happened at 4am.
    Stuttgart is the city that gave you Mercedes Benz, Bosch and Porsche.
    They seriously have better things to do than to care about graffitis.

    1. Re:WTF by BlackPignouf · · Score: 1

      No.
      It's not "someone somewhere", it is the same entity : D-Bahn.
      Their core business is actually to transport people safely, on time and at a reasonable cost.
      They fail on those 3 points, and concentrating on anti-graffiti drones surely won't help.

  38. Re:obviously by lightknight · · Score: 1

    Hmmm. Was wondering why the trains weren't stored overnight in maintenance bays.

    --
    I am John Hurt.
  39. "Free" Drones by Flere+Imsaho · · Score: 1

    I can see these anti-graffiti drones being captured and hacked for personal use. Need some spare brushless motors and LiPo batteries for your personal drone? Throw on a hoody and head down to the rail yard at night with a butterfly net!

    --
    It gripped her hand gently. 'Regret is for humans,' it said.
  40. Re:obviously by icebike · · Score: 1

    There are no maintenance Bays that can accommodate an entire railway systems trains.

    Look how many and how long. (And that's just a small part of the fleet).

    New York City has an equally large problem and its only one city.

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  41. Re:obviously by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

    And cost effective too compared to a less than $200 dollar pole mounted cameras.

    One each for a couple dozen of poles. With miles of cable. Which can get damaged far easier than a drone (because they don't move).

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    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  42. The German train system by mikefocke · · Score: 1

    When I can I choose in the EU to go by train. Just back and used 3 trains. Even reasonably priced and good food! And even the buses operated by the German DB system are top notch. I'm comparing to the US counterparts which I also use occasionally.

    You want graffiti, go to Italy.

  43. Re:obviously by icebike · · Score: 1

    Cable? No WIFI in your world?

    A couple of cameras can watch Acres of trains. (zoom in, there are antennas on top of those lamp poles.

    Start adding up $200 cameras until you get to the price of a single drone. Go ahead, I'll wait.

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  44. Re:Graffiti drones by mianne · · Score: 1

    I was thinking more along the lines of a remake of Top Gun. Instead of the USSR, the villains are the tagging drones, and the heroes are now the removal drones. But most of the action revolving around dogfights between drones. The epilogue will show the train cars are all blown to pieces, but completely free of graffiti.

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  45. Re:obviously by zazzel · · Score: 1

    You have obviously never seen the train parking zones (I live near one), and you have never seen the prices of heated, weather-protected PTZ HD cameras. And a drone is "shared equipment" that can easily be moved to a new spot.

    I don't even want to talk about the cost of setting up "poles" (you seem to be imagining a stick in the ground) that are fit for use in that kind of area. I'm not even getting into the legal concerns of setting up PTZ cameras close to residential areas. Even the potential (!) to watch a residential neighborhood makes it illegal.

    How do you track fleeing sprayers with a pole-mounted camera? Walking poles? :-)

  46. Re:obviously by dkf · · Score: 1

    Cable? No WIFI in your world?

    They've still got to be powered, and I'm not at all convinced that solar would do it without costing far more than a cable run. Railway operators know all about running cables.

    That said, I suspect that advantage of a drone is that it allows you to use an expensive setup and move it to somewhere else easily once you've dealt with the problem in one location. Putting in lots of fixed hardware by contrast requires a lot more investment in the construction work to deal with a problem that stops (at least for a while) once you've caught the miscreants.

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    "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
  47. Re:obviously by icebike · · Score: 1

    Go look at the image.
    There is plenty of power on the light poles which are already in place.

    And a wifi weather proof camera with remote tilt and pan, and built in motion and infrared detection and auto alarm triggering codts less than 200 on Amazon .

    If you order it today you could prove to yourself by the weekend just how silly a drone is.

    By the way, fully autonomous drones are military only and you don't get to fly them over cities.

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  48. drone dogfights by ffcitatos · · Score: 1

    I think that if there are people willing to paint their art for free on trains, there will be people willing to fight the tech attacking the people painting on trains for free! Brace yourselves, the first drone fights are coming!

  49. It's harder than you think by olau · · Score: 1

    Actually, where I live, it has been discussed to put up surveillance cameras to catch burglars. But the police isn't really interested, because nobody's going to watch those cameras realtime and usually they can't use the footage for identification after the fact (low light, masks, too long distance). So the problem is less tractable than you'd think.

    1. Re:It's harder than you think by joe_frisch · · Score: 1

      You are right that there are ways to defeat partial surveillance.

      I was suggesting *TOTAL* surveillance. Enough to follow the criminals home. This is close to being practical today.

  50. Re:obviously by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

    Cable? No WIFI in your world?

    Wireless power. Damn you Tesla Fanboys.

    --
    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  51. Re:obviously by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

    A couple of cameras can watch Acres of trains. (zoom in, there are antennas on top of those lamp poles.

    One tiny problem: They can't actually see 95% of the trains being sprayed, because they are hidden by other trains.

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    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  52. Re:obviously by icebike · · Score: 1

    Same problem with drones.

    Besides, you can see people entering the yard, and that is all you need.

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  53. Re:obviously by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

    Same problem with drones.

    Besides, you can see people entering the yard, and that is all you need.

    Yeah, you just have to look at the right one of fifty monitors at the right time. And drones can move a few feet and see a completely new "only 5%" of the area.

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    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  54. Re:obviously by icebike · · Score: 1

    Look at the right one?
    You have no clue about off the shelf monitoring systems do you? The cameras will see the taggers coming over the fence, send text messages to the guards before they get near the trains, and show the guards the real time video right to their cell phone.

    And who is going to be commanding that drone to "move a few feet"? The technology you suggest does not exist.

    And even when it does, you will still be able to afford a thousand cameras for the price of one drone.
    And your drone, using any technology you can afford can stay up a couple hours at best, while your cameras can run 5 years with no maintenance.

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  55. Re:obviously by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

    Look at the right one?
    You have no clue about off the shelf monitoring systems do you? The cameras will see the taggers coming over the fence,

    There's a tiny problem with your argument. Their current cameras aren't sufficient - so why should your magical better cameras do it? And a t a better price than drones?

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    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  56. Re:obviously by icebike · · Score: 1

    Your entry level battery operated RC controlled drone costs $30,000.
    The drone with the capabilities you seem to think exist cost 3 billion dollars.

    Wireless Network Enabled cams cost under 200 dollars apiece.
    I'm sure even you can do the math.

    The cameras have worked for New York City and many other cities which guard their commuter car yards with off the shelf web cam systems. Perhaps if Germany is incapable of handling simple technology, they could buy some help from the New York Transit authority.

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  57. Re:obviously by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

    PS: looks like they also want to use the drones for bridge maintenance.

    --
    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.