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First Looks At Windows 8.1, Complete With 'Start' Button

Posted by timothy on from the briar-patch-deliveries-incorporated dept.

Ars Technica has taken a look at Microsoft's newly released preview of Windows 8.1. As widely rumored, the point release features a clamored-for concession to Windows users who rankled at the loss of Windows' Start button in the taskbar. In addition to various tweaks to 8's search capabilities and icon presentation, says the article, "Some of Windows 8's obvious limitations are being lifted. In 8.1, Metro apps can be run on multiple monitors simultaneously. On any single monitor, more than two applications can be run simultaneously. Instead of Windows 8's fixed split, where one application gets 320 pixels and the other application gets the rest, the division between apps will be variable. It'll also be possible to have multiple windows from a single app so that, for example, two browser windows can be opened side-by-side." Similar reports on these changes at Wired, Engadget, and SlashCloud.

61 of 800 comments (clear)

  1. Not good enough by JDG1980 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What most of us wanted back was the Start menu, not just the Start button. Microsoft still doesn't get it: We don't want to see or interact with Metro, at all. Ever. It has no place on the desktop.

    1. Re:Not good enough by mrsquid0 · · Score: 5, Funny

      What I really want on Windows is a Stop button.

      --
      Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
    2. Re:Not good enough by Neil+Hodges · · Score: 3, Informative

      There's also the 'singular they'.

    3. Re:Not good enough by Striikerr · · Score: 5, Informative

      Agreed. My company refuses to switch to Window 8. I suspect that Windows 7 will be the new Windows XP for years to come (if you need to run Windows in your environment, it will be Windows 7). The issue with Microsoft is that they went about this wrong. They forced significant changes upon users where changes were not really warranted. This is particularly a big issue in companies where users are accustomed to working on the same style of desktop etc. These are people that complain when an icon is moved on their desktop or get confused with minor changes to applications so a full UI overhaul in the corporate space was truly a bad idea and one which will cost Microsoft dearly in the years ahead. Giving options to use their new interface components is a better approach (one which Apple has taken with their desktop OS via the Launchpad which brings up pages of icons representing applications to launch, identical to their IOS devices). I understand that Microsoft sees the writing on the wall and that mobile devices and operating systems is the future source of revenue, but dumping these changes so suddenly upon the masses was a bad decision.

      I've never been a fan of seeing the significant UI changes made each time a new version of Windows is released. I have worked on Windows servers for years and really hated the changes introduced with Server 2008. I still need to figure out where certain functions are when I have to work on a Windows server (I spend much more time on Linux servers now). I've heard similar complaints from friends who work in IT as well.

    4. Re:Not good enough by robably · · Score: 4, Funny

      itself

    5. Re:Not good enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      BTW, is power off button still somewhere in Metro sidebar and its settings (well, since they didn't provide real start menu...)? How can that be considered ergonomic?

    6. Re:Not good enough by _xeno_ · · Score: 5, Informative

      What I really want on Windows is a Stop button.

      Given how well hidden the "power" menu and logout button are in Windows 8, that might actually not be a bad idea...

      (To restart your computer, open the Charms Bar, go to Settings, and then hit the Power menu to reveal the Restart and Shutdown options. To log out, something you used to do from the same menu you shutdown and rebooted from, instead you open the Start menu, and click on your user name to open a menu you'd never guess existed.)

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
    7. Re:Not good enough by ultrasawblade · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm testing Windows 8 for a company that is likely going to be wise enough to skip it. But I keep using it just to maintain familiarity with it.

      Anyway, to sleep or shutdown, I've found it's easiest to just hit ctrl-alt-del and use the power button from there. It's what I've been telling people to do as well.

      Of course, my old Windows key + R, "shutdown -r -t 0" habit is well entrenched and used a lot too, from rebooting machines over RDP.

    8. Re:Not good enough by grantspassalan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What does Windows 8 do for any user without a touchscreen that Windows 7 won't? As a matter of fact, much of what normal users do can also be done on XP. The way people interact with mobile touchscreen devices is fundamentally different than on an ordinary desktop or laptop computer. Apparently, Apple has understood this, but Microsoft has not yet figured it out. A Swiss Army knife might be fine for camping, but has no place in any kitchen especially one of a restaurant.

      --
      A sufficiently advanced simulation is indistinguishable from reality.
    9. Re:Not good enough by MightyYar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's actually a minor point for me. I don't really care if the Start Menu takes up 1/4, 1/2, or the whole screen. What I hated most, they addressed:
      1. The way I launch apps and control panels is to hit the Windows key and then start typing the name. Win 8 broke this (except for apps). Now it works again!
      2. You had to hunt all over the place to find settings. Some were in the "charms", some in the control panels. Now they have (almost?) everything in the charms.

      I did not see whether they address the Metro apps just quitting by themselves when in the background, so I guess I will still just avoid running Metro apps. I would also like to shrink the size of the individual app buttons. Classic Shell is of course still an option. I still don't like all of the magic corners and gestures, but I've mostly learned those. Besides, if Windows was easy they'd be Apple - I'm very accustomed to struggling with MS products at first, it's a great custom that harkens back to the wonderful days of .ini files.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    10. Re:Not good enough by GregC63 · · Score: 3, Informative

      ALT-F4 from the desktop gives you the power off/log off menu as well.

    11. Re:Not good enough by cyberchondriac · · Score: 5, Funny

      Of course not...have you not heard the cries of, "But it takes too long!" or "I'm working on a project and I don't want to lose my place" when you suggest that they reboot to resolve a common hiccup?

      It doesn't matter because you just broke the Internet; you spelled "lose" correctly.

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    12. Re:Not good enough by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well, quite frankly, it does take too long ... and the "Windows Patch" (reboot and hope for the best) has always been a lousy response. It doesn't solve anything, just makes the problem go away for a while (if at all).

      Some of us expect our machines to stay up longer, and depending on what you run, starting everything from scratch would take forever.

      My 'normal' set of stuff on my personal desktop is 3 different web browsers (with multiple tabs in each), VMWare with two VMs, iTunes, the software to sync my phone, and sometimes the software to sync my Tom Tom. That's what's open every single day, all day long. My work computer is similarly running with a whole bunch of stuff that I use several times/hour and if I had to open and close them every time I used them, it would waste half my friggin' day.

      For those of us who are used to machines with uptimes in the hundreds of days range, the suggestion to reboot is the sign of a lazy and incompetent admin, or shitty software.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    13. Re:Not good enough by Junta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I did not see whether they address the Metro apps just quitting by themselves when in the background

      I'd be exceptionally surprised if they change this. That was an intentional design goal with a lot of effort in it. It's infuriating as it is bringing over one of the worst aspects of android and ios, piss poor multitasking. The thinking being that 'task management' is scary and if an app developer goes through some hoops, they should be able to restore state if killed. In practice, developers are too lazy to properly handle that use case and a task switch away and back might get you back where you were or it might start the application over without any persisted state depending on the effort of the developer and hard to predict decisions by the platform whether to suspend it or kill it.

      The major goal, of course, to automatically guess what the user would want and 'save' them from having to close apps when memory is in short supply. The 'SIGSTOP' in background is annoying enough, but is marginally more defensible in the name of saving power.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    14. Re:Not good enough by Culture20 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Shutting down via command line when using RDP is the fastest method; otherwise you get into fights with the UI (and some versions of Windows don't give you a GUI option to reboot if logged in via RDP):
      Are you sure you want to reboot?
      Yes.
      There are other people logged in.
      I said Yes! That "other person" is my non-admin account!
      Please state the reason for the reboot:
      Operating System reconfiguration.
      Application Foo not responding to close request. Shutdown canceled.
      #$^*@!

      shutdown /r /t 0 /f just reboots immediately, no stupid questions asked

    15. Re:Not good enough by omnichad · · Score: 5, Informative

      Try Win+I. That brings up a power option on the right.

    16. Re:Not good enough by CaptSlaq · · Score: 4, Informative

      spoken like a true enduser

      Spoken like a true moron -- I'm the freakin' admin, and I spent 15+ years as a developer. If I have it open, it's because I use it constantly.

      This is the stuff I use to do my job, and rebooting because someone has no idea of what's going on but thinks a reboot will make the problem go away has always been a stupid idea.

      Usually it's some idiot doing tech support who knows far less than I do who is suggesting it. Just because some half-wit at the service desk has that as the first item on his checklist doesn't make it the right choice.

      You are speaking as a developer, not someone who has come through the support ranks.

      As someone who *has* up from support, your opinion is, quite frankly, ludicrous: Support often doesn't get the documentation to sort out what could be causing stupid problem [x], because "that doesn't happen in our test environment...", which often doesn't reflect the reality of a machine that someone actually *uses*.

      Computers do stupid things, often caused by poor decisions from someone that uses them. Software does stupid things, often caused by poor decisions from someone that wrote it. Dumping on tier 1 support because they don't have sufficient tools or information to understand the entire scope of what they've been asked to support is not helping solve the overall problem of "all software has bugs" or "software companies don't do sufficient [x] for their support reps", where [x] is any combination of the following: documentation, training, testing, tool provisioning.

      If all of the steps were done right for everything (support who knows what they're doing, with sufficient tools to support software that is properly tested and well documented), I'd agree: Rebooting is the hail mary of a tech that doesn't want to fix the problem. In my experience, very few, if any of those are true. This goes doubly for the desktop OS stuff I've had to support.

    17. Re:Not good enough by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, but at least in the enterprise, downgrade rights will be around for a while, so whether Windows 8 ships with a unit or not, it seems likely to me that most businesses will be pushing out Windows 7 anyways.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    18. Re:Not good enough by citizenr · · Score: 5, Funny

      Oh, you are doing it wrong. You should use new powerful Search function instead, just search for shutdown.exe !

      --
      Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
    19. Re:Not good enough by tompaulco · · Score: 3, Funny

      It actually works for people who don't use a junk OS.
      I'm sure it does, but we are referring to Windows 8.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    20. Re:Not good enough by Darinbob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You can still get Windows 7 on new PCs.

      And yes, you're right that most will have Windows 8. However when someone asks "what's good about Windows 8" the answer should not be "you're forced to use it".

  2. How to save your company by Sparticus789 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Give users the option to use your terrible Metro interface or have a standard Start menu. What's so hard about that?

    --
    sudo make me a sandwich
    1. Re:How to save your company by Thud457 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Doesn't everybody all use touchscreens? That's all we're using?

      Remember these are the same super-geniuses that think you need a desktop interface and a mouse/monitor/keyboard to run a server. Now you'll need a touchscreen too.

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    2. Re:How to save your company by Sparticus789 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I am scared to think how terrible a remote server connection sending touchscreen data back and forth would be. I will be having nightmares for the next week. Or I will continue to use Linux servers.

      --
      sudo make me a sandwich
    3. Re:How to save your company by bkmoore · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Remember these are the same super-geniuses that think you need a desktop interface and a mouse/monitor/keyboard to run a server. Now you'll need a touchscreen too.

      That's called design by marketing.

    4. Re:How to save your company by Sperbels · · Score: 4, Funny

      Remember these are the same super-geniuses that think you need a desktop interface and a mouse/monitor/keyboard to run a server. Now you'll need a touchscreen too.

      And a Kinect maybe.

    5. Re:How to save your company by anthony_greer · · Score: 5, Informative

      You are incorrect, Please look at Server Core, Power Shell and other tech in Server that lets you run it GUIless and more UNIX like...Your insuts are based on Windows 2000/2003 products, times changed.

    6. Re:How to save your company by gmuslera · · Score: 4, Funny

      The best way to use Windows without windows is not to use Windows.

    7. Re:How to save your company by JDG1980 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Part of this is due to Microsoft's marketing department (they want to force people into Metro so they can get a cut of app sales), but another part is due to the arrogance of modern UI "experts". Received wisdom in the UI design fields is that you should never give users a choice, it just confuses them. Come up with one method that is simple enough for everyone to understand, then force everyone to use it. We will have to beat back these idiots if we ever want to have workable desktops again. Note that they have infected Ubuntu as well.

  3. side-by-side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Wow, windows side-by-side! Adjustable, even! Soon they'll come up with dragable frames around each app. Plus, they added a Start menu. I can't contain my joy at this innovation.

    1. Re:side-by-side by maugle · · Score: 4, Funny

      The technology of 1995, today!

  4. No start menu, and lots of monopolistic tie-ins by jbernardo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So, Microsoft brings back the start button but forgets the start menu. Looks like something done just to shut up the complaints, instead of listening to their users and delivering what they really wanted. Of course, they can't be seen backtracking and admitting that TIFKAM is as much of a success in the desktop as it is on smartphones...

    To that, we have all the extensive integration with bing and skydrive which could/should be considered another abuse of a monopoly position. Personally, both of the services are worthless to me, but if could replace them with Google, and dropbox/copy/google drive, like I can do in android, then it might be useful. In fact, an Android style approach might get Microsoft out of monopoly abuse...

  5. If you don't like metro... by Toreo+asesino · · Score: 5, Informative

    ...don't use any Metro apps. You're not forced to, apart from some initial app-pinning perhaps. Apart from that you can happily live in Windows 8, enjoy the extra speed and UI enhancements and never see metro again. Happy days!

    --
    throw new NoSignatureException();
    1. Re:If you don't like metro... by MBGMorden · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Except that this new "Start" menu takes you into the Metro start screen.

      Staying out of Metro would be a lot easier if Microsoft gave us back the ACTUAL start menu.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    2. Re:If you don't like metro... by Toreo+asesino · · Score: 4, Informative

      2 options: if you're a heavy start-menu user for some reason, there's plenty of OSS packages to revive the old menu. Like really, in less than 60 seconds you can have it back. Second option; pin programs to the start bar or desktop. Neither one is a big deal and against this small downside (for some) you have smaller memory footprint & a faster OS on almost all metrics. I find it incredible that self-confessed geeks have such an issue with this very small speed-bump that actually benefits many others who use it.

      --
      throw new NoSignatureException();
    3. Re:If you don't like metro... by Windowser · · Score: 4, Insightful

      third option : move to a better/faster/more secure OS : OSX or Linux.

      I find it incredible that a self-confessed geek is having an issue with people pointing at Microsoft's HUGE mistake.

      Why is it so hard for them to NOT FORCE US into their Metro crap ?

      --
      Avoid the MS tax, always buy I.B.M. PC's (I Built-it Myself)
    4. Re:If you don't like metro... by ausrob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Really? You find it incredible that self-confessed geeks would have a problem with being forced by a Microsoft design decision into losing what some people seem to consider to be fairly core usability functionality, which has existed harmoniously for over 15 years?

      It's beside the point that OSS solutions exist - it's the principal of the matter. What's so hard to understand that people might not like having changes like this forced upon them? Some people may prefer not having to using third party code to restore this functionality, while others may not be able to apply OSS options because they lack the ability to update their standard operating environment (e.g. corporations, government workstations etc).

      One of the major points of difference between Microsoft operating systems and others is that in most cases power users have the ability to heavily customize the Windows operating system (and other Microsoft products) without necessarily having to resort to third party code. What's so difficult to understand about that?

    5. Re:If you don't like metro... by DoctorBit · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because if users aren't forced to use Metro, then developers won't have to develop Metro apps, and then Microsoft won't have many apps available for download to their unpopular Windows Phone. Microsoft is trying to use its desktop OS monopoly to muscle into the relatively new phone market.

    6. Re:If you don't like metro... by JDG1980 · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's not the point. I shouldn't have to resort to third-party hacks to get core functionality that should be in the main OS, and was in the OS before Steve Ballmer started wishing he was Steve Jobs.

    7. Re:If you don't like metro... by GReaToaK_2000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Here's the thing.
      Metro UI sucks just as much as the window system Ubuntu and many other linux distributions have 'glommed' onto. It's all Mac like and I personally don't like it.

      I preferred the windows 7 design. Oh and the whole "it's (win8) smaller and faster" is crap! I finally got windows 7 installed on my hp 2000 notebook and that was tough because hp didn't want me to do it, but they finally "allowed my downgrade". Now my notebook is fast and awesome!

      I like my windowed layout. I have my applications laid out a certain way when coding and I hate the way Metro UI fights you at every step of the way to do this. They want to force you to have one app visible at a time. They started this on Linux with Gnome3, which is why it sucks so much. I can't stand the layout there either.

      The only way I even remotely get what I want (in the linux realm) is to use CentOS. Not even fedora is good anymore.

      I don't know who came up with it or why but it sucks.

    8. Re:If you don't like metro... by Luckyo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is that this is obviously not working. At all. And as that strategy unravels, they have to start handling the fallout from throwing their desktop OS under the bus to save the phone one.

      Hence, these moves. They want to see how much of a lifeline from desktop to metro they can keep going before people start rejecting their metro on desktop.

    9. Re:If you don't like metro... by Windowser · · Score: 4, Insightful

      frankly if you're stuck at "this isn't working as I want it to" then you should hand your geek-badge in because really....this isn't difficult.

      Frankly, if you can't grab the concept of "I need to make it work the way I want, and not how MS marketing dep wants it to work", I guess you don't have a geek-badge to hand-off.
      I've used EVERY windows version since version 1, and Win8 is the first version ever that I can't stand.
      I've now moved to Linux with KDE, where I can actually make it work the way I want. And believe it or not, I can actually have more than one window open at the same time !
      So keep using your toy OS and I will keep using mine that actually tries really hard to not be in my way while I work.

      --
      Avoid the MS tax, always buy I.B.M. PC's (I Built-it Myself)
    10. Re:If you don't like metro... by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Informative

      What's a "WinKey"? I don't think my model M has one of those.

      --
      No sig today...
    11. Re:If you don't like metro... by Stormwatch · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why is it so hard for them to NOT FORCE US into their Metro crap ?

      I think Microsoft really bet the farm on the Surface. With tablets outselling PCs, they think it's the future. This crap is part of the gamble.

      See, they had been advocating the "tablet PC" since the XP days, with no success. Suddenly the iPad was huge, and they think: "We were right all along, people want tablets. We just have to push for ours harder." Well, fine. But their idea is that putting the same interface everywhere will get people to go for whatever system with which they are familiar. Gee, then why was no one interested when they did those awful tablets with XP?

      The system itself was the problem, twice: as they just put a full desktop OS on a portable, not a slim one like Palm or Newton, the hardware had to be a full notebook PC with some touch junk tacked on. So it was expensive, heavy, and ran hot. Now, the Surface remains expensive, but it is light and runs cool enough, right? But the other problem was the fact that XP's interface was not adequate for tablets. So this time they are smart enough create this new interface, purportedly good for tablets. Meaning it is no longer adequate for the desktop. And they put it there anyway. Same mistake, only backwards.

      And how did that familiarity thing work? Well, they changed everything, so nobody was familiar with Windows 8 anyway!

      Apple knew better: different devices need different interfaces.

      --
      Circumcision is child abuse.
    12. Re:If you don't like metro... by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem with Windows these days is that everything they change about has an immediately obvious reason as to why the change will benefit Microsoft (or at least they hope it will) and often has little or no benefit to the customer. Metro? It serves no purpose other than to try to create a market of apps from which MS can skim 30% off the top like Apple. Metro also allows MS to do less work because it can be used across different platforms, despite only being (ostensibly) appropriate for a small fraction of them. Microsoft has always tried to work towards the goal of one gargantuan monolithic OS that runs on all hardware, despite the fact that that has never been a good design strategy and probably never will be. Apple never fell into this trap and Linux succeeds by being a rock-solid incredibly flexible _kernel_ but not foisting a massive and bloated application layer on everything from a phone to a supercomputer. I can appreciate that Microsoft wants to maintain their revenue while having to do as little work as possible, but that seems to be the only thing criterion driving any of their designs any more. The business of propping up the monopoly they created in the 80s and early 90s is running out of steam. Some day, they might realize it.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
  6. It's always been rather striking.. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I can never quite shake the dissonance associated with the fact that the OS called 'Windows' has always had fairly shit window management and now seems hellbent on making it worse(Gosh, why wouldn't a UI designed for 10' or smaller touch-tablets be a bad idea on a dual-head desktop? I sure can't think of any reasons...)

  7. Re:Really? by JDG1980 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Was the interface really that broken?? This doesn't even sound like it's a usable environment.

    The Metro interface is basically a mediocre clone of the iOS/Android interface. It's OK for tablets and smartphones, but an absurd joke on the desktop.

  8. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Those are only for Metro apps. I've been using Win8 at home for a while, and frankly it feels just like 7 now. My main use for the start menu on 7 was to open it and start typing the name of the app that I wanted. The Start screen in 8 functions the same way, only I hit the Windows key on my keyboard instead, which is faster anyway. Methinks the start screen is just a highly visible rallying point for people to whine about Windows.

  9. 4", 10", 21" by tepples · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Part of the problem is that tablet makers have taken a UI designed for 4" phones and shoved it onto 10" tablets. Why can't most tablets run two or three phone apps side by side?

  10. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    How can they even call that "Windows"?

    At least take out the plural. "Microsoft Window 8"

  11. Why bother, Win7 is fine by Gothmolly · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why bother upgrading?

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
  12. You're all gonna hate me by kannibal_klown · · Score: 4, Interesting

    People are going to hate me, but I kind of dig Windows 8.

    Part of this may be due to having a touch-pad input device and a 27" monitor @1440 resolution.

    Don't get me wrong... I think it's BEYOND stupid how they've hidden the "Shutdown / Restart" functionality. And I think they should make Metro and the new start menu optional because some people were obviously going to not like it (for valid reasons). Kind of like how Glass was optional in Windows. And there are a lot of down-sides in general.

    But I like the new start menu. Since Windows XP/7/whatever I've like the condensed start menu with my commonly used apps with the option to expand out to the full list. Click once for the condensed list, twice for the full list, or search for what you want. Which is exactly what Win 8 does, only the lists take up the full screen and searching is one more click than before.

    Obviously there are a bunch of down-sides: low info density, highly GPU intensive, etc. But I like it. I think the new UI is different, which is good. We've been using the same interface since Win95.

    Meanwhile, on the desktop side, I like the various changes they made to the desk-top aspects. The ribbon on Explorer, though some of my friends hate it. The new Task Manager. etc.

    Ultimately, you can't really fault someone for "liking" something. Some people like Britney Spears, some people hate her music.

    But I'm sure either way, this post will get modded down to oblivion.

    1. Re:You're all gonna hate me by linebackn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think the new UI is different, which is good. We've been using the same interface since Win95.

      Changing things for the sake of change is not good. I see you are still speaking English? Why don't you start using that "new" Esperanto instead? If you don't, then you are doing things the oooooooolllllld way.

      The Windows 95/NT 4 user interface, was - unlike Windows 8's - well researched, very solid, and very usable. Most of its "flaws" came from application developers not using it right (such as cluttered Windows 3.1 style program groups in the Start menu)

  13. Re:Really? by socrplayr813 · · Score: 3, Informative

    That's referring to the 'Metro' touch screen style apps. Desktop apps still work the same as they always did.

    Basically, yes, it's broken, but more because it's harder to get to the old config screens and such that you're used to. Once you're set up, it's not that different.

    --
    The confidence of ignorance will always overcome the indecision of knowledge.
  14. A start button and a Nanny cam by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "We also added the ability to take pictures with the built-in camera right from the Lock screen without having to log in."

    This is a XboxOne feature, the video and microphone will always be on so it can greet you when you walk into a room or able
    to take voice commands. The privacy issues should be obvious for a company like Microsoft.
    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-05-24/news/ct-met-kass-0524-20130524_1_drone-attacks-xbox-one-jeff-henshaw

  15. Re:Really? by Xest · · Score: 4, Interesting

    To be fair it's not quite that bad - this only applies to Metro apps written for the Metro interface, you can still access the same old desktop you always accessed and run Windowed applications there.

    The problem is that the start menu has been replaced with the metro interface, so when you hit the windows key it fires up the metro interface and if all you want is say the calculator, then yes, it takes up the full screen, which is obviously stupid, because who the fuck ever wanted a 24" full screen 1080p simple calculator rather than the classic calc in a simple window?

    A lot of the old apps are still there, windows key + r then typing calc.exe and enter will run the old one still IIRC, but that makes it about as user friendly as Linux :p

    So you do still have flexible windows as you always have, the problem is Microsoft seems to not want you to use them and tries to force you towards the new Metro fixed width full screen completely-fucking-useless versions of applications instead.

  16. Multiple, resizable Windows - Wow! by Necron69 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's like 1991 all over again. Do I have to install Trumpet WinSOCK to connect to my ISP?

    Seriously, it feels like Microsoft has forgotten why they called the damn OS 'Windows' in the first place.

    At work, we just finally upgraded to Windows 7 a few months ago. Microsoft still has plenty of time to fix more things before IT even considers Win8.

    - Necron69

  17. Windows 8 has much more flaws than Start Menu by Zarhan · · Score: 4, Informative

    We've just been handed out workstations with Windows 8 in them. My productivity has plummeted. Lots of really small things.

    Start menu isn't one of them, not really. Classic Shell is available and works most of the time. However, there are lots of small snags, that individually wouldn't matter, but since they are *all* present I'm really avoiding the use of the new WS at all costs.

    1) The desktop interface doesn't allow for proper, colored themes. I've been able to patch things somewhat with UXPatcher from http://www.syssel.net/hoefs/software_uxtheme.php?lang=en and an appropriate theme from Deviantart, but I still think it's ugly. I cannot customize colors anymore, the title bar text is ALWAYS black.
    2) Title bar text is centered. I know that it's centered on e.g. Mac OSX, but it's not been centered in Windows since Win 3.1. I have lost lots of working hours simply because I've alt-tabbed, and my typical quick glance at the top left of window doesn't give me confirmation that I'm at the correct window causes problems. At least, it takes time for me to move my face to center of each title bar. At worst, it leads to lost work - I've already once started to configure wrong server.
    3) Application associations are to Metro apps by default.When clicking a file on the desktop, why the hell does Windows think I want to launch a Metro app?
    4) At some point I somehow managed to launch the Finances application. Suddendly my screen is full of stock tickers. I don't know how to close it. Alt+f4 doesn't work. Esc doesn't work. Finally, Win+D seemed to work. I still don't know why that app started.
    5) Most of the desktop effects that seemed to work fine in Win7 doesn't work with my RDP client from Linux machine (krdc). Sometimes I can't even see the pointer (taking cursor shadows off seem to help)
    6) It's slow. Reboot seems to take like 5 minutes.

    I'm not particularly worried though. On the desktop, Windows 7 will stay prevalent for ages.

    However, on the server side, Windows Server 2012 has similar problems in it's UI (well, no Metro, but...)

  18. Re:Metro should be able to run in a window on the by wiggles · · Score: 4, Insightful

    THIS.

    Metro should have been put inside of Explorer, as an optional component, not the other way around. Alternatively, detect if there's a mouse or touchscreen present - and if there's a touchscreen, launch Metro, and if there's a mouse, launch Explorer.

  19. Win8.1 reminds me of the Blackberry Storm by Gordo_1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Anyone remember that phone? That's the one where Blackberry (RIM) decided to get in on the touchscreen craze by building a phone that tried to bridge the gap for users who preferred physical keyboards. In response to physical keyboard users who clamored for tactile feedback, they made the whole screen click when you pressed hard enough.

    At the time, I thought to myself, "no, you idiots, an entire screen that clicks doesn't provide the same tactile feedback as individually raised keys that click under your fingers. What were you guys thinking when you came up with this partial solution to the wrong problem?"

    This time around, I'm thinking to myself (and the Slashdot community), "no, you idiots, adding a start icon to the desktop so that users can get to Metro doesn't address the underlying problem that Metro is not appropriate on non-touchscreen desktop PCs. What were you guys thinking when you came up with this partial solution to the wrong problem?"

  20. Re:More than good enough by WaffleMonster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And this is why Windows will never catch up. And why eventually it will fade away as our generation grows old and leaves the workforce.

    How can Microsoft innovate if what "most of us" want is the same old thing? It feels a bit like the educators who were fighting computers in the classroom in the 1980s and insisted that students only learn on manual typewriters.

    Its not about what your used to it is about what behavior is sane and what is insane. It is about making determinations based on MERIT.

    I suspect you'll find covering the entire workspace just to launch an application or find a document just as nonsensical in the stoneage as it is in the spaceage. I don't much care what that interface *looks* like but it has to be sane and not obleterate all onscreen context in the process.

    Simply making the classic change adverse argument is an exercise in making non-falsifiable statements. If the next version of windows is an abacus and I replayed your "change adverse" statement would it be any different? What it convey and more or less information? Without merit without discussing actual tradeoffs what information is being conveyed?

    assure you that Microsoft spend millions of dollars on various iterations and on studies for usability testing. But that so many people rejected it even though if it can be scientifically proven to be better (through a repeatable study, that's how science works),

    The real issue seems to me to be for years there are a lot of people who own computers only to check email and facebook and now they have more options that are a better fit for what they actually do...good for them...but these people while a huge group are not the entire constellation of those using computers. There are people who still need a sane UI environment to get shit done complete with programs encased in movable frames...goddamn I feel like such a dinosaur saying that.

    I also disagree that this is about "science"... it was more about leveraging windows to help windows phone to improve market share in other areas. There is no technical reason they couldn't provide knobs to make everyone happy. They chose not to for political reasons as evidenced by shit they took away during early betas of W8.

    Metro is about locking down the computing environment (You can't install a metro app yourself...you can only install a metro app from the MS mothership...oh I'm sorry that is such a dated term...I mean the future of all computing..."the cloud"...

    Fads come and go ... this isn't an improvement or a reflection of "the future" or a better way... it is a POS forced upon the world for political reasons to make MS more money. A boiling frog on the road to the promised land of vendor locked down computation...our future...where a few control basically everything...like apple does with the iphone and google with everything else...

    MS is finally realizing they left way too much value on the table in previous versions of windows and is now hard at work fixing that.