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OK City Data Center Built To Withstand Winds Up To 310 MPH, Says Contractor

dcblogs writes "The area around and to the southwest of Oklahoma City, where more tornadoes were striking Friday night, 'has perhaps the greatest frequency of tornadoes in the U.S.,' said John Snow, a professor of meteorology at the University of Oklahoma. About 95% of all tornadoes are below EF3 intensity, and only 0.1% achieve EF5, which is what hit Moore earlier this month. To build a data center capable of surviving an EF3, Perimeter Technology in Oklahoma City surrounded the raised floor portion of the data center with 8.5-in. reinforced concrete walls. The data center is in the middle of the building, and around it are offices protected by another 8.5-in. exterior wall. But there's another data center in Oklahoma City that may be able survive 310 MPH winds. The company, Devon Energy, isn't talking about its data center or even confirming that it has one capable of handling these winds. But a contractor has disclosed details."

97 of 139 comments (clear)

  1. It seems by lesincompetent · · Score: 2, Insightful

    At last you yankees finally got the tale of the three little pigs right.

    1. Re:It seems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      At last you yankees finally got the tale of the three little pigs right.

      Just because a private company was smart enough to protect its own business by investing in appropriate infrastructure for its chosen location doesn't mean the rest of the area (let alone all us yankees) will follow suit. It's all risk assessment and budgeting, and most municipalities are always willing to short change the future residents and politicians for the sake of not being the ones who spent "all that money on something that will probably never ever be used or even adequately tested". If they don't envision themselves as being in office or up for election that far into the future they are more than happy to drop the future potential catastrophe into the laps of whomever ends up in their place.

      Their (lack of) foresight always reminds me of the Monorail episode of the Simpsons.

    2. Re: It seems by alen · · Score: 1

      Did you Europeans finally discover air conditioning? Or are another 20,000 some thousand people going to die in another summer heat wave?

    3. Re:It seems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      1. Oklahomans don't really appreciate being called Yankees.

      2. Otherwise, yep. It looks like 310 MPH is the new normal.

    4. Re:It seems by thereitis · · Score: 1

      Just because a private company was smart enough to protect its own business by investing in appropriate infrastructure for its chosen location doesn't mean the rest of the area (let alone all us yankees) will follow suit.

      Power, Internet connections, food, water. They've built a castle (complete with inner walls!) and a tornado is providing the siege. How long can they last?

    5. Re: It seems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They die in heat waves because european countries think that decomissioning perfectly good nuclear power plants is a good idea, and don't get the coal plants required to replace the capacity built in time (we can buy our shortfall from our neighbor's excess. What do you mean their demand peaks the same time as ours...)

      I can only assume that the coal lobby has enormous power in Europe (as they apparently have in the US, since we only installed a handful of nuclear plants.)

    6. Re: It seems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      We discovered insulation first.

      It works both ways you know?

    7. Re:It seems by tlambert · · Score: 1

      At last you yankees finally got the tale of the three little pigs right.

      You are, of course, aware that Oklahoma was not a state during the US Civil War, it was "Indian Territory", and that it was therefore neither Confederate ("Rebs") nor Union ("Yankee"), right?

    8. Re:It seems by tlambert · · Score: 1

      You are, of course, aware that the region was allied with the confederacy.

      You are, of course, aware, that you are talking about persons living in that area of the indian territories which was to later become OK, and that the derogatory term for the Confederacy was not "Yankees", per the GP's use of the word?

    9. Re:It seems by aaronb1138 · · Score: 1

      Sometimes when I see strings of reasoning like this, I wonder if the risk assessment and budgeting has missed the idea of seeing about not building in areas with such hazards in the first place.

      It's like building data centers with targets of 99.999% or better uptime in Phoenix, where multi-day large scale power outtages occur on regular 3-8 year timelines. There is nothing in Phoenix that makes it worth putting a data center there either. What about OKC made it so very necessary? Maybe the cost of labor and square footage made adding ridiculously thick concrete walls worthwhile, in which case the assessment balanced out. On the other hand, if the land is that much cheaper and the labor that much more affordable, there might be good reason why you don't want to be there.

    10. Re:It seems by icebike · · Score: 1

      The only good news -- I'm glad they are actually bothering to build a data center. Too many companies are reliant on "the cloud".

      What's wrong with the cloud?
      A well designed cloud won't be knocked out by any one storm or maybe any 5 storms, floods, water main breaks, hurriquakes, or lightning.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    11. Re:It seems by fuzzywig · · Score: 1

      "Yank" is British shorthand for any US citizen. The fact that it rhymes with 'wank' just makes it more amusing.

  2. Domes by flyneye · · Score: 1

    Domes fit the bill for tornado/hurricane resistant structures. I will accept nothing less than that or an underground facility or both. Don't build in a flood zone either.

    --
    *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    1. Re:Domes by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I will accept nothing less than that or an underground facility or both.

      Forget domes, what's so hard about building underground? If you're going to design a building for 310mph winds, wouldn't it be easier to just build the thing underground? We have underground parking garages in many places, so cost shouldn't be that large an issue if we can afford to do it just for parking, which isn't exactly a high-value real estate item. Tornadoes don't bother with underground structures at all.

    2. Re:Domes by LDAPMAN · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Here in Oklahoma we have lots of groundwater and heavy red clay soil. We also have extreme temperature variations. These combine to make maintaing underground structures very difficult. A traditional basement like you find in many areas of the country can be essentially destroyed in just a few years. Underground houses have similar issues. It has been tried but so far it has not proved to be very practical. Reinforced concrete above ground structures are likely a better solution.

    3. Re:Domes by Dputiger · · Score: 1

      I'm totally in favor of that building code rewrite, so long as you're paying the enormous demolition bill. Costs vary widely depending on location, but the Internet projects a cost of $4000 - $7000 for a small house, $9,000 - $22,000 if you have to tear the foundation out.

      Somehow I doubt that families still getting back on their feet after the 2008 recession have the funds to pay for an arbitrary knockdown and rebuild. Even when it might make sense to do so. Even given the damage that the tornadoes have done. If you don't have much money (and Oklahoma isn't exactly known for its billionaires), you go elsewhere before you tear down and start over.

    4. Re:Domes by ISoldat53 · · Score: 1

      Why not build it underground?

    5. Re:Domes by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's a myth. Both of those things can be overcome quite easily (yeah their example links to a business site but it doesn't make it untrue). It's perpetuated by the old, 'well everyone says so' bullshit. The reality is that builders don't have to dig deep because the frost line is not deep there and building codes say you don't have to dig deep. So it makes it cheaper to build if you don't dig a deep foundation like a properly built basement, with rebar reinforced concrete walls and floors and well drained gravel backfill outside like is done in more northerly parts of the country.

      Southern Ontario has a lot of heavy red clay. I don't know anyone growing up, who didn't have a basement (I don't live there now). A lot of places have it. And you want to talk about expansion and contraction, look at Manitoba and Saskatchewan (with similar great plains/prairie soil). Especially Winnipeg which is build in a flood plain along the banks of a large (the Red) river. Talk about potential for water. The frost line is around 10 or 12 feet deep. That is a lot of depth for expansion and contraction (it's called frost heave). Every home practically has a basement there. And they have a technology called 'water proofing' now. It works on basements too. Seriously, only a retard would build a new house in Oklahoma (and the rest of tornado alley) without a basement that has at least a part with a cement cover. FWIW the 'showme' part of my nick comes from the fact I used to live in Missouri. I know the sound of the siren. And they have a lot of places without basements there too. Ridiculous.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    6. Re:Domes by PPH · · Score: 3, Funny

      so long as you're paying the enormous demolition bill.

      I think that's free in Oklahoma.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    7. Re:Domes by t0rkm3 · · Score: 2

      That's kind of the problem... So, when your power is out for ten days and your basement is below the overly saturated water table and the sump pump can't run.... you end up with 18 inches of water. Just happened, we have 2500sqf basement that is 10' below the ground line... which puts the lowest point 5ft below the water table. Torrential rain and a power outage gave us 18 inches of water that it took 4 sump pumps most of the day to clear.

      So? As a home owner... who wants that shit? Most don't. I've only ever seen 1 other basement larger in OK, and I was visiting to help my dad with finding the clog in the sump line.

      Why do I have this? Cuz the house was built in 1901 and has been maintained very well. (Good bones ;-)

    8. Re:Domes by certsoft · · Score: 1

      At the very least schools should be built tornado proof in tornado alley. http://www.monolithic.com/topics/schools

    9. Re:Domes by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

      It only costs a few grand to add a basement to a new build.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    10. Re:Domes by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      It only costs a few grand to add a basement to a new build.

      Where a 'few' is about twelve (for a typical home), compared to the cost of a slab.

      A good storm shelter costs more than $2K too, but less than $12K.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    11. Re:Domes by flyneye · · Score: 1

      I'll take a dome w/a basement. I did say both. I want some windows. I've lived in a basement. It's dismal, radon is a reality around here, anyway. Need a good strong house to go to. There are Papercrete monolithic domes for the maximum tornado/hurricane protection as well. I'll settle for Geodesic. I like the architecture.The triangle is the strongest shape to build with.

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    12. Re:Domes by flyneye · · Score: 1

      Now that's what I'm talking about.

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    13. Re:Domes by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      We're talking about a data center here, not a house. Who cares if living in a basement is dismal? There usually aren't that many employees working at data centers, and and underground data center can't be any more dismal than working at a warehouse.

    14. Re:Domes by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      So what if working in a basement sucks? Working in a warehouse can't be any better, yet there's lots of people willingly working at Amazon's warehouses. And I'm sure those aren't geodesic.

      Again, this is a data center. Data centers don't need a lot of employees, probably far fewer than an Amazon warehouse. Once the systems are all set up, there's not much to do, as they can all be accessed remotely. The only time people need to be on-site is to perform any regular maintenance (cleaning dust out maybe?), or to replace failed components.

  3. Pfft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    This data center can survive 3100 mph winds.

  4. Rather odd secret to keep. by geekmux · · Score: 1

    "The company, Devon Energy, isn't talking about its data center or even confirming that it has one capable of handling these winds...."

    I'm all for keeping things confidential to avoid disclosing vulnerabilities due to more traditional attacks, but this barely makes any sense whatsoever.

    Why would you not want to advertise you have a data center with these capabilities, smack in the middle of tornado alley...

    1. Re:Rather odd secret to keep. by melonman · · Score: 1

      Maybe to avoid Titanic Syndrome ("A boat even God couldn't sink"). Not that I think God goes around sinking boats and blowing down data centres to win arguments. But if your data centre does get damaged in a storm, and you haven't claimed that it's indestructible, you don't end up being used as a moral cautionary tale about the perils of pride for the next 100 years.

      --
      Virtually serving coffee
    2. Re:Rather odd secret to keep. by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      Perhaps because they realize that advertising they can withstand an F3 tornado a week after an F5 hit is a bit silly....

    3. Re:Rather odd secret to keep. by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

      Devon makes business management software (accounting, shipping, employee training, etc.), but for a specific market segment only: nuclear power plants.

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    4. Re:Rather odd secret to keep. by mjwalshe · · Score: 1

      You know its not un common to run non branded DC's I worked for a telco and our DC was not marked with any corporate logos for security purporses - our carpark passes until recently did not indicate which company they applied for.

  5. Oh the humanity! by tippe · · Score: 4, Funny

    Due to a misunderstanding with European contractors, Oklahoma City's new data centre was only designed to handle very light breezes of up to 310 meters per hour (m/h), and collapsed moments after construction was completed. When asked how they could confuse "MPH" with "m/h", the response was "wast ist eine 'mile'?". Full story at 11...

    1. Re:Oh the humanity! by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      Due to a misunderstanding with European contractors, Oklahoma City's new data centre was only designed to handle very light breezes of up to 310 meters per hour (m/h), and collapsed moments after construction was completed. When asked how they could confuse "MPH" with "m/h", the response was "wast ist eine 'mile'?". Full story at 11...

      Was heißt "meile"? Fragen Sie bitte seine Grosßvater!

    2. Re:Oh the humanity! by etash · · Score: 1

      last i heard esset ist now kaput! ss i the new norm!

    3. Re:Oh the humanity! by tippe · · Score: 1

      Yes, as other comments also indicate, due to my lack of not knowing German, my German is pretty bad. Count yourself lucky I didn't use my amazing Swedish, which I've learned through years of watching the muppet show!

    4. Re:Oh the humanity! by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      last i heard esset ist now kaput! ss i the new norm!

      Give grandpa a break! Old habits die hard.

      Actually, I was told the rules for ß are now reduced, but it isn't dead yet. And what's the good of an international keyboard if you can't exploit all the extra letters, anyway? I think English should bring back "thorn". Not only is it more convenient for writing ye definite article, it collates better phonetically!

    5. Re:Oh the humanity! by UttBuggly · · Score: 1

      Due to a misunderstanding with European contractors, Oklahoma City's new data centre was only designed to handle very light breezes of up to 310 meters per hour (m/h), and collapsed moments after construction was completed. When asked how they could confuse "MPH" with "m/h", the response was "wast ist eine 'mile'?". Full story at 11...

      Well besides the 'super' Data Center, Devon built a 900+ high glass tower in downtown OKC. The building took a near miss last night.

      The funny thing about the Tower is that when driving in from the airport, it looks like downtown is giving you the finger. This thing dominates the skyline and also engineered to deal with tornadoes. Almost got a pop quiz Friday night. I wonder how much damage the acres of glass the thing is covered with would do if it were hit. "The building is still standing although everything in a mile radius did an impromptu episode of 'Will It Blend?'"

      --
      I am my own gestalt.
  6. Flying Cars by MaXiMiUS · · Score: 1

    You know nothing, Jon Snow.

    On a more serious note, I'm not sure they should be worried about the wind. Is 8.5in of reinforced concrete really going to stop a station wagon full of tapes hurtling through the sky at 310mph?

    Something tells me that their tornado budget would be better spent on insurance and remote data backups.

    --
    It's never just a game when you're winning. - George Carlin
    1. Re:Flying Cars by taiwanjohn · · Score: 1

      A better solution would be an earth-sheltered design. Still not perfect, but much better protection, plus huge energy savings to boot.

      Actually, I remember reading about an earth-sheltered school in Oklahoma back in the 80s while doing a research project on energy efficient architecture. Not sure if it was ever built or if it was just a design. (And I couldn't find it in 30 seconds of googling.) As I recall, it had a large central atrium to maximize natural lighting, but had large, sloping berms on all sides, with a few cutouts/tunnels for access.

      If I were a resident of OK, and had kids, I would want them in a school like that.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
    2. Re:Flying Cars by mlts · · Score: 3, Insightful

      One concern of mine:

      310 mph winds != 310 mph debris slamming into the building.

    3. Re:Flying Cars by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      plus huge energy savings to boot.

      Afaict that depends hugely on the climate.

      For a building with significant waste heat generated inside such that it needs cooling even in winter whether you want insulation depends on how the outside and desired inside tempreatures compare.

      If the outside temperature is generally hotter than the inside temperature then insulation is blocking heat leaking in so you want as much of it as possible.

      OTOH if the outside temperature if generally colder than the inside tempreature then insulation is blocking heat leaking out (and remember you are TRYING to get heat out of the building) so you want as little of it is possible.

      This is a very different situation from a house, in a house typically relatively little waste heat is generated internally so you want good insulation in both hot and cold climates.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    4. Re:Flying Cars by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      We're talking about OK here...it is a southern state in the USA, it is hot on average.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  7. To Expensive by PvtVoid · · Score: 1

    ... to build schools that way, I guess.

    1. Re:To Expensive by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Where's the profit in that? Berm-sided buildings and domes should be Code in that part of the country, from the air it should look like The Shire. People who live at the confluence of the jet stream descending after crossing the Rockies and the warm, moist air up from the Gulf shouldn't be surprised when tornados form, any more than river-bank dwellers by spring flooding.

    2. Re:To Expensive by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "Historically you might have the occasional huge tornado every few years"

      So why to protect against them? It is not as in OK you weren't already accustomed to be killed -if it's only every few years!

  8. Dome by Reliable+Windmill · · Score: 1

    Perhaps not as space efficient, but I'm thinking a dome-shaped building with strong anchoring would be excellent. The winds would just caress over it, with nothing to grab hold of.

    --
    Signature intentionally left blank.
  9. obligatory GoT reference by doubleu606 · · Score: 1

    Apparently John Snow DOES know something!

    1. Re:obligatory GoT reference by lazlo · · Score: 1

      I know! I mean, he's a professor of meteorology, so I'd guess he probably as some idea of when winter is coming.

      --
      Pound! Bang! Bin! Bash! is this a shell script or a Batman comic?
  10. Building code by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 1

    Why aren't the building codes in that area either requiring that or at least storm shelters? That school falling over was just bizarre. I am willing to bet that they have spent much time and money training for school shootings while ignoring the giant storms that rush by quite often.

  11. Or maybe... by caxis · · Score: 2

    ... or maybe they could just build a regular data center somewhere else?

    1. Re:Or maybe... by rgmoore · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because nowhere else in the USA is subject to natural disasters, and there's no cost to locating your data center a long way from the business it's supposed to be serving.

      --

      There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.

    2. Re:Or maybe... by trparky · · Score: 1

      There are parts of upper north east of the United States, places like Michigan and Ohio that haven't seen a tornado in years. That's where I live, North East Ohio. The nastiest thing we normally see in North East Ohio is a massive snow storm. Big deal.

  12. excellent pont by decora · · Score: 4, Insightful

    if you have ever seen tornado damage in person, you stop coming up with these stupid ideas about windproof houses etc.

    would your building survive a nuclear bomb blast? no? then it probably wont survive a direct tornado hit.

  13. conversely, the shire must have had awful tornados by decora · · Score: 3, Interesting

    otherwise therese basically no reason for hobbits to build that way

  14. why dont cars have 100MPH bumpers by decora · · Score: 2

    because the statistics dont justify it ??

    more people die from drownings than tornados.

    1. Re:why dont cars have 100MPH bumpers by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      Tell it to these people: http://weather.aol.com/2013/05/21/photos-devastating-tornado-strikes-moore-okla/
      In Oklahoma, weather comes to YOU.
      In Oklahoma city 149 tornadoes had come to town since 1890 as of last fall. With this spring's new crop, it now stands at 151 or maybe 152. So tornadoes-near-you in Oklahoma are pretty much an annual event. A direct hit where you are is a little less likely. But dangerous weather and seriously damaged buildings don't require a direct hit. Evidence suggests that bigger tornadoes are getting more common. Two massive storms (one with an EF5 and this latest with 3 smaller twisters) in less than two weeks within a few miles of each other! Even these smaller twisters killed 5 people and injured dozens more.
      It really is time to consider whether critical infrastructure ought to be built do withstand at least anything less than a direct hit (say, 150 MPH winds) and whether building standards for homes and other places where people spend a lot of time (such as schools) ought to include a tornado shelter.

    2. Re:why dont cars have 100MPH bumpers by LDAPMAN · · Score: 1

      All new schools here have been built with storm shelters for many years. The schools that were just destroyed were built in the 60s.

    3. Re:why dont cars have 100MPH bumpers by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      Yes, but that's only in OK. If you look at the statistics nationwide, not many people die of tornadoes. Because of this, we can't build tornado-resistant things, even in OK where tornadoes are concentrated, because we Americans aren't smart enough to realize that different localities have to do things differently.

    4. Re:why dont cars have 100MPH bumpers by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1
    5. Re:why dont cars have 100MPH bumpers by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1
      I can't find dates of construction to verify that but:
      • Are you thinking people in the 1960s in Oklahoma didn't understand the risk of tornadoes?
      • Are you thinking that retrofitting storm shelters in or at older schools isn't possible?
    6. Re:why dont cars have 100MPH bumpers by Holi · · Score: 1

      Im thinking it is very hard to get the funding to retrofit the schools when education funding is being slashed.

      --
      Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
    7. Re:why dont cars have 100MPH bumpers by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      and whether building standards for homes and other places where people spend a lot of time (such as schools) ought to include a tornado shelter.

      Municipal buildings, especially Schools, have traditionally done double duty as shelters. Elementary schools are particularly good for this - you don't want the youngest kids getting hurt, and they're traditionally the most dispersed/closest to most people.

      So you do some things - build it to commercial+ standards. Stronger walls, windows, and doors. Higher fire protection. On high ground so it doesn't flood, etc...

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    8. Re:why dont cars have 100MPH bumpers by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      There are always great rationalizations for not doing rational things.

    9. Re:why dont cars have 100MPH bumpers by careysub · · Score: 1

      Weather related fatalities would be a more apt standard of comparison, don't you think?

      Tornadoes come in number one as the cause of weather-related death over the last 10 years. And Oklahoma's tornado fatality rate is the highest in the country, three times the national average.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
  15. tornado proof data centers. by palerider · · Score: 1

    Sabre built a data center in tulsa that's tornado proof. to all outward appearances, it's an empty field surrounded by chain link fencing and razor wire. then they sold it to eds. *shakes head*

    1. Re:tornado proof data centers. by Captain+Hook · · Score: 2

      Couldn't the tornado just lay some blankets over the razor wire and climb over?

      --
      These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
  16. Next: white walker countermeasures by sammy+baby · · Score: 1

    "The area around and to the southwest of Oklahoma City, where more tornadoes were striking Friday night, 'has perhaps the greatest frequency of tornadoes in the U.S.,' said John Snow, a professor of meteorology at the University of Oklahoma.

    Hurricane season is coming.

  17. 8.5 inches? Huh? by bradley13 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Are we supposed to be impressed with 8.5 inches of concrete in the walls? In much of Europe, that's pretty close to normal residential construction, nothing special. Ok, maybe they are including more steel - I surely hope so - but it's still nothing special.

    In Moore, the school where children were trapped under rubble and drowned because they couldn't escape the flooding: This school had no designated safe room from burst water mains. This is "tornado alley" we're talking about - the last time that Moore was flattened was just 15 years ago! What kind of idiot builds a school in that area that cannot stand up to tornados and has no shelter to retreat to? In this area, tinkertoy construction ought to be forbidden in government buildings, and utterly uninsurable in private ones.

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
    1. Re:8.5 inches? Huh? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Europeans make private residences with 8.5 inch thick concrete walls? Ugh, concrete is so soulless. I prefer natural materials.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    2. Re:8.5 inches? Huh? by LDAPMAN · · Score: 2

      The schools that were destroyed were built in the 60s. All new schools have been built with storm shelters for many years now. Also, the "died by flooding" turned out to be inaccurate.

    3. Re:8.5 inches? Huh? by Xyrus · · Score: 2

      Unfortunately 8.5 inches of concrete is not going to withstand 300 MPH winds. Why? Because those 300MPH winds are also carrying things like trees, cars, trucks, chunks of asphalt, girders, cows, and other debris which will grind those 8.5 concrete walls into rubble. Look at the aftermath photos from any EF4 or EF5 tornado and see what's left standing. Even buildings made to withstand tornadoes are total losses.

      If they really wanted to make their data center "tornado proof" then they should have built it underground like a regular storm shelter. Then they'd also get the added benefit of lowered AC costs.

      BTW, no children drowned in the Moore school. That was misreported. Also, for a tornado that size there's really no such thing as a "safe room" above ground.

      --
      ~X~
    4. Re:8.5 inches? Huh? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Given their propensity to bombing one another into rubble every few generations I'm not surprised at the desire for quick, simple, ruggedized construction.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    5. Re:8.5 inches? Huh? by Solandri · · Score: 1
      8.5 inch reinforced concrete. "Reinforced" means it has steel bars embedded inside. Concrete is very strong in compression, but very weak in tension. The rebar gives it tensile strength. The plain concrete and brick construction (without rebar) common in parts of Europe and in developing nations is notoriously weak against lateral forces for this reason. In most regions it's not a problem because the only significant force they experience is gravity, and gravity always pulls in one direction - down. As long as gravity is pulling down, the wall is in compression and thus very strong. But any significant sideways force, like an earthquake, tornado, or hurricane puts it into tension and can easily break apart or topple the wall. That's why you hear about a magnitude 7 earthquake in developing countries killing tens of thousands, while California gets through with a few dozen fatalities. Mud huts typically do not have enough mass to kill people in an earthquake. It's the concrete and brick apartment buildings which collapse that cause the huge fatalities.

      On a per-weight basis, steel, reinforced concrete, then wood are your strongest construction materials against omnidirectional forces. Due to the lack of tensile strength, plain concrete and brick are actually pretty low in their desirability outside of very stable areas, the story of the three little pigs notwithstanding. In California for example, the brick and concrete structures built before the 1970s earthquake code changes had to be retrofitted with steel bars to give them more lateral strength. (They're the red square plates you see at regular intervals between the windows. The plate serves as an anchor for a steel bar whose other end is anchored to an interior structural member, or passes through the building all the way to the other side where it's anchored to another plate. That helps give the wall some lateral strength to resist toppling during an earthquake's shaking.) Concrete built since the 1970s has to have rebar embedded, and brick has to be cinderblock with rebar running through the holes inside. This adds considerable expense, and so wood is the construction material of choice. Europe is very fortunate that most of it is a very stable environment, so they can build using unreinforced concrete and brick with abandon.

      Unfortunately, none of this matters when the wind throws a pickup truck at your building. Still, as a structural engineer, I would never willingly live in a brick or unreinforced concrete building.

      This is "tornado alley" we're talking about - the last time that Moore was flattened was just 15 years ago!

      If you draw two random lines on a piece of paper, at some point they will likely cross. Moore just happens to be where those two lines crossed. So it should actually be discarded as an outlier if you're trying to gauge the statistical frequency of devastating tornadoes. I grew up in tornado alley, and despite dozens of drills and a few actual warnings where the sirens sounded and we evacuated to the center of the school, I never actually saw/heard a tornado. The closest was one about 25 miles away which destroyed a family friend's neighborhood. Curiously, his home suffered very little damage while the one next door was obliterated. Tornadoes are very capricious.

      So the odds of actually being hit by a tornado are pretty low. Economically speaking, you're better off rebuilding after a tornado does hit, rather than trying to construct everything to be capable of surviving a hit. It's not like an earthquake or hurricane where an entire region gets hit with the same force.

    6. Re:8.5 inches? Huh? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Europe is very fortunate that most of it is a very stable environment, so they can build using unreinforced concrete and brick with abandon.

      Northern Europe specifically - south of Austria the place is known to dance a bit.

      We don't learn in the States either, though - living in Boston's Back Bay is trendy, but also only popular among those who never heard of the Cape Ann earthquake or what one does to fill or brick and stone buildings on fill.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  18. Not that impressive. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Go google for FEMA P-361 or P-320 and you'll get all the data and construction drawings.

    There are two aspects of design here: the first, particularly for smaller structures like safe rooms in houses, is resistance to projectiles. The standard projectile for testing is a 15 lb 2x4 going 100 mi/hr. Texas Tech has a cannon that shoots them for testing. They've done a lot of analysis and review of actual tornadoes and have determined that this is the appropriate projectile: resist that, and you'll resist almost anything else from storms bigger than any actual recorded. Big stuff goes slower, small stuff goes faster, but it's all about momentum and impact pressure, and just like medieval knights, a heavy long skinny thing going fast is an effective projectile.

    the second aspect is the force of the wind pushing the wall over, which is a big deal for larger structures (think gymnasiums, auditoriums, etc.). There, you design for the 250/300/350 mi/hr wind or whatever. 250 mi/hr = 160 lb/square foot. Note that in states like California, you probably already have this for free, because you have to design for seismic loads, which are comparable.

    As to the school that was destroyed. It was built a long time ago. Retrofits of big structures are expensive. It takes a series of disasters to motivate compliance. In California, the Long Beach quake of 33 resulted in the Field Act (no unreinforced masonry in schools) but still, Sylmar in the 71 resulted in several catastrophic failures of things like hospitals. So the laws were updated to apply to more things. Loma Prieta and Whittier prompted even more.. in fact, I think Whittier is when they really started cracking down on reinforcing masonry, and not allowing existing structures to be grandfathered. Northridge in 94 also resulted in some changes, particularly for things like bolting houses to foundations.

    But the point here is that it took 80 years from the first laws about earthquake resistance to the present day, where most stuff is just built to take it. A Civil Engineer being interviewed in Joplin MO commented that making a new hospital tornado resistant only added about 3% to the cost. Doing it as a retrofit is a lot more expensive. Consider an elementary school with 500 students: their annual budget is around $3.7M (http://www2.census.gov/govs/school/11f33pub.pdf, $7600/student) A very tiny fraction of that is available for construction projects, I'd be surprised if it's 1%. You're not going to retrofit a school built in the 60s out of concrete blocks and no rebar for $40k, or even $400k. FEMA estimates that a single family shelter would cost about $5000 to build. Building something to hold 500 students plus 60 staff is a big project: at 5 square feet/person, that's several thousand square feet, and you need to have enough doors for getting those 600 people in and out. And that's 3000 square feet that has to be kept fairly open: no using it for storage. (multipurpose rooms and cafeterias are popular). The other problem is that safe rooms are, by nature, kind of depressing places to be in: they have no windows and limited doors.

    1. Re:Not that impressive. by mrchew1982 · · Score: 1

      It's possible to have windows or skylights, but they must have steel shutters that slide into place over the top of them...

  19. Insurance by dlt074 · · Score: 1

    Even before this latest rash of storms, it was common to find insurance companies not writing new policies in OK. Premiums are noticeably more then elsewhere for single family homes.

  20. Re:conversely, the shire must have had awful torna by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Underground housing has many benefits besides protection from severe winds, chiefly protection against temperature changes. Underground houses don't ever get too hot or cold. Maybe the Shire gets excessively hot in the summer and the Hobbits, not having invented air conditioning, prefer to stay cool. Of course, underground housing like that does require extra labor to build; maybe the Hobbits used some slave labor force to build them.

  21. Wind, sure... by xyourfacekillerx · · Score: 1

    It might be able to withstand the wind, but what about flying cows and other debris carried by the wind?

    1. Re:Wind, sure... by ISoldat53 · · Score: 1

      Or flying farm houses.

    2. Re:Wind, sure... by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Or witches?

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  22. Re:Huh? by Skapare · · Score: 1

    Because it is known that tornado winds can reach at least 320 MPH.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  23. they dont live in the desert by decora · · Score: 1

    they live in a green hillside around a lake.

  24. my grandparents lived in oklahoma by decora · · Score: 1

    they built a house using their bare hands during the great depression. and they had a storm cellar. not enough spare income from their website gigs to build 8 inch concrete walls i guess.

    but hey, thanks for the judgemental lecture. very helpful.

    1. Re:my grandparents lived in oklahoma by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 2

      they built a house using their bare hands during the great depression. and they had a storm cellar. not enough spare income from their website gigs to build 8 inch concrete walls i guess.

      but hey, thanks for the judgemental lecture. very helpful.

      You just told me that your grandparents built a safer house than present day builders typically build and sell in Oklahoma and most other tornado-prone places. Why are commercial home builders allowed to make and sell houses that wouldn't have been considered safe enough by 1920s Oklahoma residents?

  25. no i mean in oklahoma by decora · · Score: 1

    more people die of drowning during tornado wetaher than die of tornados.

    ergo we should spend more money on preventing flood deaths than tornado deaths.

    1. Re:no i mean in oklahoma by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Sorry, didn't realize that statistic was OK-specific.

      But when you say "drowning", do you mean from floods, or from pool accidents, or both? You can do something about flooding, but there's not much you can do about pool accidents beyond either education or banning swimming pools. You could mandate fences around pools to try to keep kids out, but that's not something for government tax dollars to be spent on (the pool owner has to pay for things like that).

  26. Bogosity bullshit... by ElitistWhiner · · Score: 1

    Design builder here with tornado and snow load experience, SO that tilt-up concrete structure with flat roof can NOT withstand an uplift load on 10,000 sq. ft. of roof structure. That's the primary design flaw on first principles. Exterior mechanicals, chillers, solar arrays and electrical gear only survive IF nothing crashes into them during a category EF5 tornado.

    What are the chances?

    1. Re:Bogosity bullshit... by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      as far as the solar panels go could they not be designed with some sort of "breakaway" mounts set to say 98% of what would endanger the roof?? (the panels if you found them later would be scrap but what are the chances that they would function anyway after that kind of pounding??)

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
  27. New meme by Sooner+Boomer · · Score: 1

    "In Oklahoma, storm chases YOU".

    --
    Chaos maximizes locally around me.
  28. Maybe I'm missing the point by Vrtigo1 · · Score: 1

    Ok, maybe I'm missing the point, but isn't it a lot easier to build stuff to survive a hurricane or tornado if it's underground? That would be my assumption based on the notion of a storm cellar or other type of "bunker" being constructed underground. So, why not just build datacenters 10-20 feet underground? Essentially you would treat it like a basement, but without a building on top of it. I could see flooding as being an issue, but couldn't you just excavate another 30-40 feet below the floor of the datacenter and give water somewhere to go? The water would have to fill up that space before it became a concern to you, and I would assume that if you designed it in such a way that you never expect water to get down there in the first place then if you put pumps to deal with any water that does come in it shouldn't be too hard for them to keep up with any water that does.

  29. The biggest problem in OK is not wind by tlambert · · Score: 1

    The biggest problem in OK is not wind... it's all the crap that got picked up by the wind, and is being slammed into your specially designed structure at 300MPH.

    Just like the biggest problem for structures in hurricanes is not actually the wind, it's the water and debris that's getting slammed into them by the hurricane.

  30. OK by pellik · · Score: 1

    If an OK data center can withstand 300MPh winds, what can a good data center withstand?

  31. Re:low govt regulation ideology by turbidostato · · Score: 1

    "It might be cheaper just to build to lower quality standards, and buy insurance."

    Yes. Paying for your burial is cheaper than paying for your shelter.

  32. Dorothy's place by bobvious · · Score: 1

    Sure it may be able to handle 310 mph winds, but can it handle a house (or car or bus) being blown by 310 mph winds?