A Serious Proposal To Fix Windows 8

GMGruman writes "Windows 8 is simply not selling, and everyone but Microsoft knows it's a mess of an OS. And the Windows 8.1 'Blue' that Microsoft revealed some details of late last week doesn't address the fundamental flaws. So a team at InfoWorld worked up a serious proposal to rework Windows 8 for both PCs and tablets that fixes those flaws and lets Microsoft's true innovations break free of today's Windows 8, complete with mockups of the proposed Windows 'Red.'"

Comments

Nice objective summary

[dywolf]

Nice objective summary

Re:Nice objective summary

[auric_dude]

Red pill or Blue pill? Sorry, red or blue flavour of Windos.

Re:Nice objective summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice objective summary

Agreed. Despite the writer's obvious bias in saying "everyone but Microsoft knows it's a mess of an OS", the plain truth is that Microsoft knows it's a mess too.

Re:Nice objective summary

[jones_supa]

The real problems are quite simply Meto is useless for App Development, Your are limited to the features you can do in JavaScript. It ok for simple games and widgets... But for an App the does real work, no. They should expand the Metro UI to fully use the computer that it is running on.

You can also develop Windows 8 Metro style apps with C++ .

Re:Nice objective summary

[LateArthurDent]

Nice objective summary

Actually, it is.

Windows 8 on the desktop is broken. This isn't a subjective tastes issue. It is objectively horrible.

Unless you can explain why someone in a desktop would actually *want* to be subject to tablet limitations like full screen apps, or having to dock apps at specific locations in your screen if you want to work with more than one at a time. I can see why it would be beneficial to be able to run the tablet apps, but if you have a mouse and keyboard, by default they should be placed inside a desktop window that you can do whatever with. Instead, we're being guided by default to use tablet apps instead of desktop ones, and going to a horrible screen that shows a limited set of what you have installed instead of getting a well-organized menu.

If you install classic shell, Windows 8 is perfectly usable, but it doesn't really add anything to what was already available with Windows 7.

Re:Nice objective summary

[Grishnakh]

Well of course he has lieutenants, but they don't call the shots on major decisions, they can only advise him. Windows 8 is not something his lieutenants can just build and put out in the market without the CEO's say-so; it's such a huge thing to the company as a whole it had to have his approval. Plus, part of the impetus for Win8's Metro interface is this crazy idea of having a single UI across all devices, and that's something that spans company divisions, and again, would require CEO approval. Ballmer certainly isn't involved in every little detail of everything MS does, but for the really giant decisions like this, it's unfathomable to think he didn't at least take a look at it and sign off on it. And if you buy into hairyfeet's theories, Win8 is probably largely a product of Ballmer's insistence of trying to one-up Apple, because he's pissed that they got so popular with phones and tablets when MS's efforts in those spaces (which predated Apple's by many, many years) were all so lame and unsuccessful.

Re:Nice objective summary

[jones_supa]

Windows 8 is not something his lieutenants can just build and put out in the market without the CEO's say-so; it's such a huge thing to the company as a whole it had to have his approval. Plus, part of the impetus for Win8's Metro interface is this crazy idea of having a single UI across all devices, and that's something that spans company divisions, and again, would require CEO approval.

At the end of the chain, the approval of CEO can be as simple as "yes, looks good, let's push it". But the design and functionality, big building blocks of the new Windows, depend on so many other people too.

Re:Nice objective summary

[im_thatoneguy]

Windows 8 on the desktop is broken. This isn't a subjective tastes issue. It is objectively horrible.

You sound like those fox news commentators insisting that it's a "fact" that Obama is a socialist and "science" that women belong at home with the kids. Simply throwing the words "objective" and "fact" into a sentence doesn't make a statement either. The word you're looking for is "opinion".

Why would someone want to be subject to limitations like full screen apps? One reason: easier window management. When I'm on an ultrabook I don't have 10 windows open everywhere, there simply isn't enough space. Snapping Skype to one side and IE to the other is superior to me having to juggle arbitrary windows.

With arbitrary dividing spacing I would rather have dockable windows in defined panes than floating windows most of the time. Almost all of my high end applications have moved to a docked/paned windowing system. The few that haven't like 3ds max are a #()@# nightmare of overlapping dialog windows trying to get to the one I want.

I love AeroSnap in Windows 7 but I really wish I could define an arbitrary divide point and maintain that point. Instead aero snap means I have to snap and then resize new windows. Which is a hassle with a trackpad or touchscreen.

Lastly... that's so far only in the Tablet/Laptop side of the OS so I don't know why you're bitching. Regular old school anarchy windowing is still completely in tact (and enhanced) in windows 8. And for Tablet/Laptop apps it's already really nice even if needing a little more polish (see 8.1+ enhancements). I'm hoping that by 8.2 and with the addition maybe of vertical splits in the dock paneling they start offering it as an alternate windowing system for the desktop.

It's an objective, non-subjective *FACT* that the start screen shows way more icons, and places more icons within a shorter distance of the start button than the start menu. A grid gives you 2 dimensions of applications instead of 1 dimension that means you have an objective (N^2-N) more applications quickly accessible. Microsoft actually changed my mind on this subject with two graphics:
http://blogs.msdn.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/communityserver-blogs-components-weblogfiles/00-00-01-29-43-metablogapi/3730.Page15_2D00_1_5F00_6C5DB0B3.png

http://blogs.msdn.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/communityserver-blogs-components-weblogfiles/00-00-01-29-43-metablogapi/4300.Page15_2D00_2_5F00_7A2FF6AE.png

Also menus are idiotic. If you're using the start menu like it was designed in 1995 you're objectively slower than someone who just hits the start button and types in the first 3 letters of the application name.

Start -> All Programs -> Adobe Creative Suite -> Photoshop. (took me 10s)
vs
Start Button + "Phot" + Enter. (took me less than 3s and works in Windows 8 and 7 exactly the same.)

If you click the "All programs button" on the start screen (Just like you have to press the "All programs" button in the start menu, you'll get taken to a full organized list of applications. And with the tweaks in 8.1 it'll be even more usable than the "well organized menu" since you can sort by how frequently you use your apps. You shouldn't be wasting a second of your time curating your start menu.

And if you really were a power user you wouldn't have frequently used apps in your start menu, you would pin them to the taskbar like you've been able to do for over a decade. The fact that you're trying to use Windows 8 as if it was Windows 95 is your problem not Windows 8.

Re:Nice objective summary

[Darinbob]

I find the start menu much more navigable than the start screen in Windows 8. Giant icons in metro is means less stuff up there available, so the first thing most people do is go to "all apps". Then you've got a 2 dimensional grid of smaller stuff. However that is less convenient in many ways; start menu is top to bottom, with vertical scrolling, but start screen is top to bottom and left to right with horizontal scrolling which is very disconcerting.

Also by default start menu keeps things in sub-folders. Thus my newly installed game will have a folder all to itself, including the game, readme, and miscellaneous files. This keeps the menu list shorter, compared to the "all apps" on the start screen where everything is expanded by default so I'm scrolling (sideways) through many more elements than the start menu had.

Also consider the awful icons you get in metro. A flat square with a smaller icon in the center of it, many of the icons which look exactly the same as others (ie, all document files are identical). So you are reading the text only here, the icons get ignored. This leaves a huge amount of space between each name in the start screen, which means you can't visually scan as easily through the squares list looking for the name you want. Start menu is compact; start screen is spread out with wasted spaced.

When I use start menu it is for a couple reasons essentially: to find things that are seldom used or hard to find, or to find things that are used often but which can't have on-screen icons. For the former, the start screen does not speed up the searching and actually slows things down. For the latter, metro makes it difficult to find control panel or shutdown (without using undocumented shortcuts that the average user will not know).

I don't use start menu in windows 8 because I don't have a replacement, so on occasion I do use start screen. I always find it very clumsy. I also find myself pinning more stuff to task bar than I used to, with more icons on the desktop than I used to. I hate that, I want a relatively clean desktop.

No problem here

[flnhst]

I have now worked with Windows 8 now since last october, and it is working just fine for me. I have had no problem getting around the new interface.

Re:No problem here

[LordThyGod]

I have now worked with Windows 8 now since last october, and it is working just fine for me. I have had no problem getting around the new interface.

You must be the target audience then. The rest of the planet, or most of us anyway, are not.

Windows Red looks horrible

[Anonymous Coward]

The suggestions involved are klunky and the idea of splitting it into 3 OSes is going the wrong way. Windows RT is a disaster because it lacks app compatibility. MS needs to retire it and fully embrace x86 now that intel has fixed it with Haswell.

All that needs to be done to "fix" the start menu issue is make it so the task bar never goes away and the desktop background stays persistent but faded out. You click "START" and tada, the tiles appear right on top of your desktop. It is a simple solution, should be easy to present and works equally as well in mobile touchscreens as it does mice.

Re: Windows Red looks horrible

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

The problem with Windows RT was naming it Windows.

Had they just called it RT, or Surface or Metro or something other than Windows, the app compatibility wouldn't be a problem. OSX application support or, out of the box anyway, X or Gtk support didn't harm Android or iOS. The whole thing supports the same CLR as Windows so...

I think what's really hurting them is the insular nature of Microsoft. Spreadsheets aren't cool. Using Power Point in ads is more likely to turn off a user than turn one on.

Re:Windows Red looks horrible

[SuricouRaven]

You're got to look at it from a business perspective. Microsoft is a 'traditional' software company: They make a product and sell it. They have no model for continuing to make money from their product post-sale, so they are highly dependent upon keeping customers continually upgrading. An increasingly difficult task - Windows XP remained popular for many years after MS intended it to die. Compare to Apple or Google: They don't just make products, but make an ecosystem around it - iTunes, , the app stores, tie-ins to other services, advertising. Every iPhone and Android device is a revenue stream to Apple or Google well after the initial sale.

Microsoft wants to copy that. It's a great business idea. Not always good for end-users though - the factor that enables the ecosystem business model is device usage restrictions. Apple couldn't make money off the iPhones if people were able to install just anything from anywhere, without the App Store taking a cut.

Re:Windows Red looks horrible

[Junta]

The issue is that WinRT has to offer *something* that IOS and Android do not in order to gain share.

They didn't pursue lower price, their offerings are no less expensive than Apple.

The didn't pursue better specs. They focused on Tegra 3, which is respectable but dated. Their screen resolution is downright atrocious compared to comparably priced products. While Android and IOS both have high ppi displays, MS has been left behind on this front.

They don't have more apps. Android and IOS had to build their ecosystems from scratch, but they had early mover advantage. After letting that situation simmer for years, they release a product with a paltry number of apps despite having a legacy of the most application compatibilty of any platform. They don't even have app compatibility between their phone and winrt as it stands (though that wouldn't have helped *much*, it still is a sign that they made a mistake compared with the strategies of Apple and Android).

Basically, every possible advantage that MS could have brought to market, they failed to do so. Like it or not, their best hope was/is to focus on x86 solutions where their application compatibilty can really come into its own.

Re:Windows Red looks horrible

[UnknowingFool]

Apple couldn't make money off the iPhones if people were able to install just anything from anywhere, without the App Store taking a cut.

Apple makes as much or more revenue off iPhone hardware sales ($22B) alone than all of MS according to their quarterly financials. While Apple makes money off of apps and content ($4B before they take their cut), it not as much as what they make on iOS hardware ($30B).

if it doesn't include pushing more to metro

[gl4ss]

then microsoft isn't interested.
the whole point is to get people to use metro apps. to pay for metro apps. to get a cut of metro apps sales.
thus the push towards the metro ecosystem. supposedly it would also fix problems with some malware and so forth, but the real dollar bills would be from getting a cut from everything that is run on the pc. that is a huge pie. unsurprisingly traditional sw makers are asking why the fuck should they bow to that and are moving to subscription models partially as a backup against ms possibly being so stubborn as to force sw to be downloaded from their market sometime in the next 5 years or so.

they could easily do that if metro apps would have started to gain a lot of traction, too bad people don't like metro enough.

the simple fix would be to ship it with possibility to multitask metro apps and to run them in windows as default features, but then people might start asking why bother with metro apps at all. it's not like it's impossible to make touch friendly apps - with esentially the same api's - that aren't constrained to running inside metro vm.

(written on a windows 8, it's so nice that it comes with a pdf reader. too bad you can only run the piece of shit fullscreen and view just one pdf at time! and the fuck does some fucking single player games need my windows account and facebook for? ??).

Re:if it doesn't include pushing more to metro

[RogueyWon]

The shift to a Metro UI was one of the big late-cycle mistakes that MS made with the Xbox 360 as well. The second-generation 360 UI which they used through the middle years of the cycle was about as good as anybody's managed on a console. For the final few months of its life, it actually worked really well with Kinnect's voice and gesture commands (which, sadly, couldn't be said for any games).

By contrast, the third generation Metro UI was ugly, hard to browse with a controller and almost unusable with voice/gesture controls. It seemed to have been designed with just two purposes; maximising the percentage of the screen given over to adverts and serving as an early push for the whole "Metro" concept.

Metro's ok for a tablet. Not great, but I've seen worse. For anything else - desktop, notebook or games console - it's dreadful.

The whole thing has the stink of the kind of dumb idea that investor relations departments think up as something that can be pushed at less-than-intelligent shareholders. "Look, we may have missed the whole smartphones and tablets thing, but we've got a really great unified UI concept now that will let us take over the world! Honest!."

It would only take a couple of those big institutional shareholders to get a clue and start asking a few pointed questions about the consumer-focussed parts of Microsoft to make life very, very uncomfortable for the company's management.

But I can see no signs that's about to happen.

Bad OS or bad GUI?

[gatkinso]

If it is simply a shitty GUI on an improved kernel and stack then I will deal with it.

What little Windows development I do is at least 50% command line anyway. My GUI apps simply are wrappers (and quite ugly thank you).

A simple question I have wanted to ask:

[fredrated]

how is it 10,000 Microsoft engineers and managers couldn't pour piss out of a boot if instructions were on the heal?

Re:A simple question I have wanted to ask:

[TheRealMindChild]

Because of the vision of the manager at the top of the pyramid

Is MS *trying* to commit suicide?

[TWiTfan]

Between Windows 8 and trying to turn the Xbox into some sort of kludgy, half-assed DRM'ed TV tuner instead of a game console, I sometimes wonder wtf is going on in Redmond. Has Steve Balmer just checked out to lunch or something?

Re:Is MS *trying* to commit suicide?

[Zontar_Thing_From_Ve]

Remember, Microsoft has always been reactionary rather than inventive. They wait to see where the market is going and then jump in, pretending to be the guys who invented. This worked well for years. Also, they have so much money that they can (unfortunately) afford to fail big and shrug it off. Vista was a disaster for sure, but it's just a historical footnote now. When you don't have to be right and have the money to just restart from the ground floor, you can gamble. So Windows 8 is the result of Microsoft incorrectly reading the marketplace, specifically in believing that nobody wants to buy PCs and that 100% of the world wants tablets and almost nobody on earth will ever buy or use a true PC again. Never in the past have they been held accountable and lost market share for being disastrously wrong, so I can't really fault them for expecting that to continue. I don't remember his name, but one tech writer wrote recently that Microsoft will continue to misread the market place and try to extract more and more revenue from the segments where in the past they had a stranglehold but are actually dying now (ie. Windows and Office). The Xbox thing is them being reactionary ("Kids use Tivo and we need to get us some of that money!") and trying to hold onto cash by making it unfriendly to play used games on. I don't claim to be a gamer or understand or know that market, so we'll see what happens. But their Windows and Office strategy is flawed because the push for more money out of Office is already driving people to cheaper alternatives and making Windows unfriendly to the businesses who need it to work reasonably well on true PCs is going to be a failure too.

Re:My solution for fixing Windows 8

[Known Nutter]

You left out one option: Windows 7.

Re:My solution for fixing Windows 8

[serviscope_minor]

and replace it with what?

DOS 6.22 of course, with Windows 3.11 for workgroups. I suggest also installing Trumpet Winsock in order to be able dial in to what is known as "the internet. Obviously you'll need to buy a modem for that.

the growth of OSX showed that the usual linux trope about there being no possibility for a competing desktop OS to succeed was bollocks

You do realise that (a) MacOS is very old and already had a very well established software base, and (b) Microsoft Office which is at about the 99.9% monopoly level has supported MacOS (X and pre-X) too?

Re:Uh oh. My common sense is tingling!

[Xest]

"Microsoft should hire Infoword's writers as design consultants. Inforworld's staff doesn't have the luxury of being out of touch with users."

Judging by the fact that what was really just a simple article when it comes too was presented as some kind of faux-slideshow that randomly went white in the middle with a link return to slideshow (I assume my ad blocker half-killed a popup ad) I'd say they're perfectly well out of touch with users too.

Common Sense....

[houbou]

From Win 7 to Win 8, the differences are simply too huge.
We've been using a desktop PC for about 20 yrs and basically, the core Win OS hasn't changed all that much. Start Button, Control Panel, etc..
I believe that as long as you have PCs operating with keyboard/mouse that you should be able to have the Win 7 experience. And then again, if possible, the Windows Classic experience without all the frills and thrills.
Well, that's my opinion anyways. It would make sense and it wouldn't be rattling user's cages so to speak.
Microsoft wants to get into the mobile world with their OS. Great, no problem, bring it on, but, maybe, they ought to make it a separate OS. It's going to be a while before a 'one solution' fits all approach will work when it comes to computing. For once, Microsoft should look at how Apple does it. It might LOOK all the same, but it isn't.

Re:No, it's not.

[wonkey_monkey]

It's done. If you want a Start menu, pay $5 to Stardock.

Why pay anybody anything? Classic Shell is free.

Re:Or simply install Linux

[Merk42]

So in order to solve the issue of a completely different UI, you suggest installing Linux that has a completely different UI (and app incompatibility)?

Re:My solution for fixing Windows 8

[Lorizean]

The main reason why Linux on the desktop hasn't been very succesful is largely a marketing problem in my opinion. Specifically, there is basically nobody who properly markets Linux, so a lot of people have never heard of it and even those that have largely think it's a command-line only hardcore-geek thing. Linux needs an image change and it is slowly happening - look at steam etc. I would also be very interested in your reasoning as to why GNU/Linux isn't very good.

Doing it wrong.

[VortexCortex]

Linux. BSD. Haiku. ALMOST ANY OTHER OS. you're damn proposal to make thing the way you like can actually be acted upon.

The best way to "fix" windows, is to say "fuck it" and not use the shit.

Re:My solution for fixing Windows 8

[scsirob]

I suggest also installing Trumpet Winsock in order to be able dial in to what is known as "the internet"

Don't be silly. Use the AOL CD that arrives for free on your doorstep. Every day!

Not great editing oversite on that article.

[OvidNaso]

It links you in the third paragraph to "20 things you will love about Windows 8." Number 9 is the "Charms bar." On page 3 they suggest "The Charms bar is eliminated".

Re:My solution for fixing Windows 8

[UnknownSoldier]

> - OSX - anybody who tells you that this is somehow a better working environment than ms windows honestly is just lying.

Quit trolling. Do you even _use_ OSX on a daily basis?

I've been using computers since the early 80s and have used a ton of OSes: Apple DOS 3.3, Apple ProDos, DOS 2.x - 6.x, Win3.1 .. Win8 (inclusive), Irix, BeOS. For the past 2 years I've been using OSX as part of my day job.

My thoughts based on _experience_: As a power user OSX is pretty darn good. You can Alt-Tab into & out-of games all day long without _any_ hiccups. On Windows alt-tabbing back INTO the game almost always forces a 1 or 2 second hiccup. The way Windows manages devices & scheduler in Windows is wonky.

+ The UI is good. Clean and (mostly) well designed (although Apple appears to be making more and more bone-headed decisions lately.) The 4 hot-corners of the desktop (Expose) is fantastic. Borders are only 1 pixel thick in OSX in contrast to the fugly 8 pixel width on Win 8. OS also has the advantage that MS Office shows the menu bar ALONG with the stupid ribbon.

+ On the MBP the trackpad blows away any Windows laptop I've tried.

+ BSD under the hood which makes porting to Linux helluva a lot easier for command line apps. XCode is a decent IDE.

- OSX Virtual Memory still stinks (I've been able to completely hard-lock OSX once about every 6 months) on 10.6 and 10.7.

- GPUs have always sucked on the MacBook. TF2 with everything turned down and barely able to get 20+ fps on a 3 yr old 17" MBP.

= When needed the majority run Windows in a VM (Parallels) and we have a few dedicated Windows boxes. A lot of developers (~20) also run Linus inside a VM (VMWare or VirtualBox) (no Plus nor Neg, equal = tie)

We have an office of ~70 people who use OSX on a daily basis and would also basically agree you are completely talking out of your ass. So yes, OSX is _good_ enough for daily use.

Besides, Linux _already_ won on the mobile space.
http://techland.time.com/2013/04/16/ios-vs-android/

Re:Or simply install Linux

[Bacon Bits]

Suggesting Linux as an option to fix Windows is like proposing Esperanto to fix English.

Re:No, it's not.

[Toonol]

Lots of people, obviously. Probably millions. Why'd you ask this question about a statement that had a clear answer?

Re:My solution for fixing Windows 8

[hcs_$reboot]

Does it mean, by induction, that Windows x-1 is better than Windows x?

Re:Works for tablets

[PPH]

but it works realy well for tablets and touch-enabled devices.

How nice for you. But some of us need a desktop to actually get some work done. And there, it sucks.

Um, what?

[tgd]

Windows 8 is selling extremely well.

New PCs are what isn't selling, and that has nothing to do with Windows 8, no matter what the Slashdrones like to believe. That has to do with Moore's Law finally outpacing the needs of software, the change to near universal consumption on computers.

Hardware vendors need to make upgrading hardware compelling. Microsoft can't do that -- they're selling plenty of upgrades, as it is.

Re:sales figures?

[Joce640k]

According to this article they have sold 100 million copies so far: http://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/windows-8-sells-100-million-230105134.html

Not at all bad, if you ask me.

How many of those licenses had the disk reformatted and a pirate copy of Windows 7 installed?

Vista had downgrade rights to XP and a lot of people used them but it still counted as a Vista sale in Microsoft's accounts. If Windows 8 had downgrade rights to Windows 7 then I bet a *lot more* people would use it than they did with Vista.

Re:My solution for fixing Windows 8

[Sockatume]

Paging out every single item from VRAM just because you have to draw the desktop is like dragging everything from your sitting room into the hallway because you want to put on your socks in there.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Uh oh. My common sense is tingling!

[ericloewe]

Nope. As much as I agree with a lot of the Windows 8 hate, after experiencing it on my Samsung Ativ SmartPC Pro (which, by the way, is probably worse than the Surface Pro), those guys are just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.

Instead of a simple "Allow us to stay exclusively within Metro or the Desktop" suggestion, they're advocating three seperate versions of Windows: One with only desktop, one with only metro, and a pseudo-version that makes you reboot if you want to switch from metro to desktop or vice-versa or if you want to use the touchscreen. They claim it's a minor issue, but it most certainly would not be - forcing a reboot is obviously not necessary (Nobody complains about Windows 8's oerformance) and it adds a non-trivial delay if you want to detach or reattach the keyboard and use Metro or Desktop, respectively.

In essence, they have no freaking clue.

Re:Windows on the hoof

[StoneyMahoney]

[OT]
An American, an Australian and a German walk into a bar. The American greets the bartender and says "I'll have a Budweiser please." The Australian says "I'll have a pint of Fosters, mate." The German considers things for a moment and says "I think I will have a mint tea, if you have any." The American and the Australian question the German's judgement, and in reply he simply shrugs and says "well, it's not like you're having a beer".

Re:No, it's not.

[Grishnakh]

What kind of crappy employer do you have that has already switched to Win8? Just about every larger company out there has passed it up.

Re:Works for tablets

[Rob the Bold]

but it works realy well for tablets and touch-enabled devices.

How nice for you. But some of us need a desktop to actually get some work done. And there, it sucks.

I don't think it was the GP's decision for MS to (unwisely) try to unify desktop and touchscreen interfaces into one OS. He just pointed out that it worked well for him on a tablet. (And that he didn't like it on a desktop.) Why put the hate on him? You got the wrong guy. He didn't ruin your desktop.

BTW: Hey, Ubuntu team? You seem to be going in the same direction of merging tablet and desktop interfaces . . . I hope you're studying this debacle and learning from it.

Re:My solution for fixing Windows 8

[StoneyMahoney]

I bet nobody thought they'd see the day when an OS comparison favoured Vista!

Bitching is the name of the game

[Anonymous Coward]

I RTFA, and all I could think about is BITCH BITCH BITCH BITCH.

The amusing thing is that it is a trend no one seems to admit to.

Vista comes out - Everyone says: "But it sucks and it breaks compatibility!" (Yes, it sucked initially, but it was decent enough [emphasis on decent] right before 7 came out.)
7 comes out - Everyone says: "But Vista sucked! Why would I leave the stability (editor's note: HAHAHAHAHA!) of XP for 7 when it is just an update to the terribleness of Vista? (7 was great on release and is still great to this day.)
8 comes out - Everyone says: "WTF, why would you change everything? Screw you MS!" (Not touching this. I like 8, that's my final comment on the subject.)

And meanwhile, there are still arguments from folks that people should stay on XP as opposed to moving up to at least 7.

So BITCH BITCH BITCHing is the standard OP regarding their releases from the past half decade. Which is probably a part of the reason they don't care too much about catering to every users' whim in terms of "improvements." They know people will bitch some more anyway.

Re:sales figures?

[Voyager529]

People said the same thing when File Manager was removed.

Except that File Manager was still available in Windows 95 if you wanted it.

  People said

the same thing when the "gummy" themed buttons in Windows XP showed up (oh, its not professional!).

Except that classic mode was available in XP if you wanted it.

They said the same thing when Vista added UAC.

Except that UAC could be disabled if you wanted to.

And they're saying the same thing now.

Except that now we're stuck using third party utilities to undo Microsoft's changes.

Turns out, for Microsoft, people "saying the same thing" works out very well financially.

And it is this line of thinking that may get Microsoft into trouble in the none-too-distant future. In the Windows 3.x/95/XP days you speak of, "computing" and "desktop computing" were synonymous for home users. If you wanted to get online, you used a desktop/laptop. Now though, many people's needs can be adequately met by iPads, Transformer-like tablets, and Chromebooks. Even Linux Mint has all but gotten the Linux Desktop situation sorted out (though I personally was a fan of Xandros in its day). Microsoft's response has been the polar opposite of what it's been in the past: instead of including classic modes, Microsoft has actively worked to remove such functionality. The first public beta had a start menu that could be enabled by group policy, presumably more people were enabling it than Microsoft was happy about and as a result it was forcibly removed. How this will impact Microsoft over the next five years is anyone's guess.

Re:My solution for fixing Windows 8

[Coolhand2120]

I've recently been made to switch from a Win8 machine to a brand new OSX machine. The Win8 machine has three monitors, 256ssd, 16bg ram, i7. The OSX machine is a Macbook Pro Retina i7 256ssd, 16bg ram with two external monitors. There are some cool things about OSX but there are many stupid things about OSX. And they're not stupid like "this is different" stupid, they're stupid like "this shit is stupid". Because I'm feeling verbose I'll list the really stupid low hanging fruit. And at the end I'll list what I really enjoy about it.

OSX

• * I have to sign up for iTunes to keep my computer updated!?
• * I HAVE TO GIVE ITUNES MY CC# TO KEEP MY COMPUTER UPDATED!?
• * I have to restart my computer to keep it updated? I thought this was Unix?

Keyboard (external mac? keyboard)

• * Why is the keyboard all fucked up? Two keys labeled delete? Is there some aversion to calling a backspace key a backspace key?
• * Where the fuck did insert go!? You know some people actually use insert!
• * For that matter where is num lock and scroll lock? Again, I use those keys!
• * Why redesign the num pad into a Apple(TM) num pad and move all the keys around?
• * The behavior of the home and end key is stupid! They jump to the end and beginging of the document instead of the end and begining of the line! What gives them the right?!
• * They remove essential keys like insert but I have F1-F19!? And an eject key on a system that doesn't even have an optical drive? (not that they knew that about my system, so a small pass there.)
• * Seriously? No Alt key? WTF, I thought this was UNIX! How the fuck am I supposed to use EMACS!?

OSX Windows

• * WIndows present resize mouse cursors on some windows edges that cannot be resized! Inexcusable! I should be able to resize the window from any edge. And for god sakes, if I can't resize it from that edge don't show me a fucking resize cursor and make me think I'm losing my mind.
• * What the hell is up with this full screen arrow. Useless shit. It removes all the windows from my other screens and throws up a lame gray background. Lame.

• * Is this green control box maximize or what!? It seems like sometimes it wants to maximize height and width, and other times it will only maximize height. Be consistant. No, actually, always maximize both!

• * I would be so happy if when I resize the top edge of the window to the top of the screen if the bottom would snap to the bottom of the screen like win7/8. I'm not saying this makes all the difference in the world, but when you make it difficult to resize (my first point on windows) this is even more important.
• * More customization of color and style would be nice, but I'm not going to cry about too long about that.

• OSX Finder

  • * Seriously? This is the worst piece of shit file manager I've ever seen. Apple has a lot of talented people, money and has had plenty of time to make something wonderful and they made this? As quickly as I could I replaced it, I'm using nuCommander now. Get your shit together Apple.
  • * I can't remove this POS from my dock without doing some serous surgery to the OS. Even if I do get it removed, it'll come back and stick there until I restart if I open it somehow. Grow up finder, not everyone should be forced to use you. But then, this is Apple, home of "we force you to use shit" so I shouldn't be surprised.
  • * I can't type a path in here? Fuck that! That alone makes this program trash. Really, a lot of the "finder replacements" are trash for the same reason. Are people afraid to have a path bar you can type in?

  Apple Magic Mouse

  • * RIGHT MOUSE BUTTON!!!! Oh my god! I can't click this right mouse button like 90% of the time. Oh there's a right mouse button, but when you try and click it, it produces a left mouse click. You have to remove y

Re:Or simply install Linux

[kimvette]

> You know what? Linux on the Desktop is a complete and utter failure, even after all this time. It's utterly unusable.

So you installed the most antiquated UI and call it a failure. I don't believe you run Linux, I believe you're just trolling. If you were serious about desktop usability you'd have installed Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Mint, OpenSUSE, or Fedora - or considering you've been running Linux for 20 years (some of us actually HAVE been running Linux for 20 years but based on your post it is obvious you have not) you would simply have installed a more intuitive and capable desktop.

Linux is not a failure on the desktop - it is superior to both Windows and OS X in many ways. What it lacks is consistency between environments, and commercial app availability (there is still no true Photoshop, Lightroom, AutoCAD, etc. replacement on Linux unless you want to spend a whole lot of hours fucking around with WINE). Gaming isn't much of an issue any more as more and more games and gaming platforms get ported to Linux.

Seamless integration with networks is VASTLY superior in Linux than Windows, especially under KDE where you can fish:/ or smb:/ to a share directly in konqueror or dolphin, and interact with those ad-hoc mounts as if they were local folders and files. This makes it very corporate-friendly, if it weren't for all of the entrenched apps that are not available on Linux.

Re:Windows 8 IS a success!!!

[0123456]

I believe you'll find OEMs are buying Windows 8 licenses and 'downgrading' their machines to Windows 7 instead. Everyone I know who's bought a PC in the last few months has bought one with Windows 7 because Windows 8 is an utter disaster.

Re:No, it's not.

[Darinbob]

But there's nothing in Metro you need or want. Skip it entirely. All built-in metro apps are buggy or poorly designed (though will likely be refreshed in 8.1), and you can't even get free third party apps without first signing up for an official Microsoft Account (unsure if there are alternate ways to get apps like you can on OS X without going through apple's equally stupid store). Most everything you can do in metro you can already do better in a web browser or with a desktop application.

Re:My solution for fixing Windows 8

[Fatal Darkness]

* I have to sign up for iTunes to keep my computer updated!? * I HAVE TO GIVE ITUNES MY CC# TO KEEP MY COMPUTER UPDATED!? * I have to restart my computer to keep it updated? I thought this was Unix?

As of Lion, you sign in with an Apple ID. That is not iTunes, but iTunes also uses this ID. You do not need a credit card number to update your OS. That is only required for purchases in the App Store. If the update involves a kernel, kernel extension, Aqua/Quartz or other core component modification then yes, you will need to reboot. You probably have to reboot for updates more often than in a modern Unix due to the GUI integration, but generally less so than in Windows.

Keyboard (external mac? keyboard) * Why is the keyboard all fucked up? Two keys labeled delete? Is there some aversion to calling a backspace key a backspace key? * Where the fuck did insert go!? You know some people actually use insert! * For that matter where is num lock and scroll lock? Again, I use those keys! * Why redesign the num pad into a Apple(TM) num pad and move all the keys around? * The behavior of the home and end key is stupid! They jump to the end and beginging of the document instead of the end and begining of the line! What gives them the right?! * They remove essential keys like insert but I have F1-F19!? And an eject key on a system that doesn't even have an optical drive? (not that they knew that about my system, so a small pass there.) * Seriously? No Alt key? WTF, I thought this was UNIX! How the fuck am I supposed to use EMACS!?

It sounds like you are using the mini bluetooth wireless keyboard. You would probably prefer the full-size keyboard which has many of the keys you are concerned about. The behavior of the home and end keys is the way they have historically always worked in computing. It was Microsoft that changed the behavior in Windows and got people used to the different behavior. It was also Microsoft that changed the behavior of the Control key from its original usage of sending actual control codes. Apple retains the original behavior and introduced the Command key which works like the Microsoft Control Key. To move to the Beginning / End of a line, use Command+Left or Right Arrow. As for Alt, this is actually more correctly referred to as the Meta key. The Option key on the Apple keyboard provides this functionality, and it's is conveniently in the exact same location as the Alt key on PC keyboards. Of course, if you hate the Apple keyboard so much, there's nothing stopping you from using any USB or Bluetooth keyboard with the Mac, they're all supported and OS X understands how to map PC-specific keys to their OS X equivalents.

OSX Windows * WIndows present resize mouse cursors on some windows edges that cannot be resized! Inexcusable! I should be able to resize the window from any edge. And for god sakes, if I can't resize it from that edge don't show me a fucking resize cursor and make me think I'm losing my mind.

As of Mountain Lion you can resize any resizable windows from any corner. If you're getting a resize cursor than you should be able to resize it. I'm not sure why you're having this experience but if you are indeed experiencing a bug related to this it might be worth bringing up to Apple Support so that they can be made aware of it.

* What the hell is up with this full screen arrow. Useless shit. It removes all the windows from my other screens and throws up a lame gray background. Lame.

When you full screen an application, a virtual desktop for that application window is created on the fly. Your other windows are still there on their original desktop. You can still Opt-Tab back to them or use Mission Control/Expose. I don't understand