Slashdot Mirror


White House Announces Reforms Targeting Patent Trolls

andy1307 writes "According to Politico (and, paywalled, at The Wall Street Journal), the White House on Tuesday [released] plans to announce a set of executive actions President Barack Obama will take that are aimed at reining in certain patent-holding firms, known as 'patent trolls' to their detractors, amid concerns that the firms are abusing the patent system and disrupting competition. The plan includes five executive actions and seven legislative recommendations. They include requiring patent holders and applicants to disclose who really owns and controls the patent, changing how fees are awarded to the prevailing parties in patent litigation, and protecting consumers with better protections against being sued for patent infringement."

39 of 124 comments (clear)

  1. What is patentable? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Do these measures address arguably the most fundamental problem: too many things are patentable in the US and patents are awarded too easily in the first place?

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    1. Re:What is patentable? by gtall · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, the President cannot simply change the rules about what is patentable. That would take an Act of Congress. Now if only Congress could produce some worthy Acts instead of sharpening their daggers for the next partisan attacks.

    2. Re:What is patentable? by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not necessarily tax payers dollars. In fact, the patents already force people to pay hidden taxes on products. You could charge the patent trolls more for their patents, have a "flood-penalty" for entities holding more than a few patents, etc. It would be extremely unfair to make the tax payers bleed for being ripped off. Punish the wrongdoers, not the victims.

      --
      Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
    3. Re:What is patentable? by DickBreath · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There are multiple ways to improve the USPTO without spending taxpayer money.

      For example, the USPTO could charge large patent application fees for patent applications that are rejected; but charge low fees for patents that are granted. That would change the incentives for both the examiners and the filers of patent applications. If a patent is later re-examined and is found that it should not have been granted, then there should be an even larger penalty, and additional penalties for litigating based on an invalid patent.

      Another approach would be to simply scale up what the patent office is currently doing, but not use so much human labor to do it. Simply throw all patent applications into a large room full of cats with PATENT GRANTED stamps attached to their feet.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    4. Re:What is patentable? by Infiniti2000 · · Score: 2

      That makes no sense. Application fees occur at the time application, typically many years before rejection or approval is known. Instead, perhaps apply a large Post-processing Rejection Fee and leave the application fees somewhat untouched.

      On the other hand, they could look at the provisional application process. Maybe provide a cursory review, require certain fields be filled out so that these unpatentable patents get short-circuited at the beginning. For something that gets initially "rejected" through this new process, require a significant re-application fee.

    5. Re:What is patentable? by Luckyo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No. The measures are going to be designed by same people who designed the current patent laws, and therefore will have the same goal: to enforce position of incumbent powerhouses against small disruptors.

      Therefore patents will likely be allowed to use as a method of suppressing competition for big companies. However small company use of patents to defend and attack anti-competitive practices will likely be destroyed in the name of "defending against patent trolls".

      The actual patent reform would take power from incumbent companies, and as a result will simply not happen.

    6. Re:What is patentable? by thomasw_lrd · · Score: 2

      A sliding scale patent fee might be useful. If you own a lot a patents or make a lot of money off of the patents you own, you pay more. If you don't already own a patent, then maybe no fee? Or maybe a percentage fee for whatever you make off the patent? A big question in my mind is is the USPTO solvent? Does it require tax payer funds or is it funded completely by the fees? I'm sure I could google it, but I really should get some work done today.

    7. Re:What is patentable? by KingMotley · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Sure it makes sense, you are sweating the implementation. You could for example charge a large up front Application Fee, that the bulk of it gets refunded if the patent is accepted, or not if it's rejected. Pretty simple.

      You make the Rejected Fee large enough and sure as shit you'll see some commercial entities pop up that will pre-scan your patent for less than the reject fee, and make sure all the i's are dotted and t's crossed before they submit it to the USPTO (for a fee of course). This shifts the burden of dealing with junk patents to the free market, and increases the quality of patents the USPTO sees, and with the higher fees, they can even staff better, and now they have an incentive to make sure bad patents get rejected, and like all things, money is a great motivator.

    8. Re:What is patentable? by KingMotley · · Score: 3, Informative

      The president can quite literally change the rules about what is patentable through an executive order, however, if that would stand up in court would be questionable. The fact that changing patent law wouldn't really go against anything in the constitution directly would probably hold a lot of weight. Of course, if the president is found to have overstepped his bounds, he can always be removed from office for it as well if the offense is big enough.

    9. Re:What is patentable? by fast+turtle · · Score: 2

      My kingdom for modpoints. This would actually work and be in line with capitalism in general. Hell the Republicans should be all over this becuase it does two things - creates more industry and reduces governmental interference of business

      --
      Mod me up/Mod me down: I wont frown as I've no crown
    10. Re:What is patentable? by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No one believes that tired old bit of propaganda anymore.

      Necessity is the mother of invention, not avarice.

      This is the problem when you start treating creative work as "property". You get obscene rhetoric that implies that any restrictions on the virtual land grab is some sort of theft.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    11. Re:What is patentable? by jedidiah · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's property is it not? Then start treating it like property.

      TAX IT.

      That's not socialist. Property taxes predate socialism but at least 1000 years. So if these people want virtual property created out of thin air then let them pay taxes on it like I do on my house.

      Tax it. Assign it a known value. Make it easy to assess tort claims like patent violations and software piracy.

      Give some incentive to put things in the public domain after they are no longer worth the tax bill.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    12. Re:What is patentable? by jedidiah · · Score: 5, Interesting

      > Having one person dictate what is and isn't patentable opens a huge can of worms that can hinder innovation

      That is MORONIC.

      The lack of a patent does not "hinder innovation". People can still choose to bring new products to market even if they don't get to benefit from a virtual land grab.

      You're just repeating the same old tired megacorp propaganda.

      Avarice is not the mother of invention.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    13. Re:What is patentable? by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 2

      ...and in the revolving door of free-market and government, there would never be any kind of collusion or bribery to make sure that a patent got through! Genius!

    14. Re:What is patentable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Sure it makes sense, you are sweating the implementation. You could for example charge a large up front Application Fee, that the bulk of it gets refunded if the patent is accepted, or not if it's rejected. Pretty simple.

      Actually, that's pretty stupid. Even if you make the cost of filing patents 10 times more expensive, this still won't be prohibitive to trolls who earn millions from abusing patents. For them it's just a little extra cost of doing business.

      The small time inventor on the other hand is screwed. Even if they have zero doubt about legitimacy of their filing (which is in most cases impossible) they still won't be able to afford the collateral.

      You just made everything worse for the good guys and the bad guys for the most part didn't feel the pinch. In fact the trolls can now approach inventors and buy them out much easier as the average inventor is now stuck behind a paywall.

    15. Re:What is patentable? by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not necessarily tax payers dollars. In fact, the patents already force people to pay hidden taxes on products. You could charge the patent trolls more for their patents, have a "flood-penalty" for entities holding more than a few patents, etc. It would be extremely unfair to make the tax payers bleed for being ripped off. Punish the wrongdoers, not the victims.

      A related issue is that the USPTO is a net contributor to the budget. They don't even get to use all of the patent examination fees that they generate, with some being "diverted" to the general budget.

      A "flood-penalty" along the lines you propose would punish those corporations which generate and use a large number of patents, such as IBM, Toshiba, Siemens, and so forth. A better idea would be to take the ratio of implemented patents (in products produced and marketed by the patent holder) to unimplemented patents (whether licensed to others or not), and use that as the basis for a tax per patent or per unimplemented patent more than a few years old. This would still hit patent licensors such as ARM, but if the tax were relatively low, it would not hinder them much while the trolls would find it a great inconvenience.

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    16. Re:What is patentable? by loneDreamer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sincerely, I doubt it would work. First, you are adding yet another middleman, increasing practical costs and bureaucracy for no reason. Second, there is a huge incentive for the USPTO to reject things to cash the fee. Third, it would imply a process of appeal that will never be used by the little guy.

      I mean, the end result might well be less patents, but the mechanism is equally flawed and a burden for those who should get one. I would love to see less patents around, hell, after reading this long paper on the topic I'm convinced no patents are needed at all, even for pharmaceuticals. But unless you abolish patents completely, you need some system that minimizes abuse.

    17. Re:What is patentable? by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The alternative to the patent system isn't everything becomes public domain. It's no one tells anyone else what they've discovered.

      Yeah, if Amazon hadn't revealed their revolutionary one-click ordering brainstorm to the world on their patent application, then we'd still all be sitting here wondering:

        "How the hell did that Amazon order happen so easily? God, I wish I could figure that out! There must be some trick to it."

    18. Re:What is patentable? by Bacon+Bits · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Silverware. Silverware is not patented technology. It's not copyrighted either. Yet I can go to a score of stores in my medium size town and buy enough silverware to host a meal for a thousand people or more for less than a day's wages. Aspirin, acetaminophen, and penicillin are no longer covered by patents, and those are still readily available. Coca-Cola, even with it's secret formula, is famously available and identifiable world-wide. Your assertion that without the power of a legally enforced monopoly that nobody would produce goods for profit is absurd.

      People that make things do so because it makes them money. It makes them money whether there is competition or not because people need things. Patents allow limited time to make more money by suspending the power of competition to artificially compensate for the cost of development. A tax based on the value of a patent or copyright over it's lifespan is perfectly acceptable. As GP said, if IP holders are so insistent that IP be subject to the benefits of property laws, then let them suffer some of the drawbacks as well.

      --
      The road to tyranny has always been paved with claims of necessity.
  2. "reining" by sessamoid · · Score: 5, Funny
    "aimed at reigning in certain patent-holding firms"

    "Reining", not "reigning". Think horses, not kings.

    --
    "No, no, no. Don't tug on that. You never know what it might be attached to."
    1. Re:"reining" by SpaghettiPattern · · Score: 3, Funny

      "aimed at reigning in certain patent-holding firms"

      "Reining", not "reigning". Think horses, not kings.

      Shirley you mean "raining".

      --

      I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
    2. Re:"reining" by RabidReindeer · · Score: 2

      "aimed at reigning in certain patent-holding firms"

      "Reining", not "reigning". Think horses, not kings.

      The king reigns because he holds the reins.

      But did you lose your loose change? And can you tow a line to where people can toe it?

    3. Re:"reining" by Dishevel · · Score: 3, Funny

      I do not mean raining and don't call me Shirley.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
  3. I'm not sure their the problem by gr8_phk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've been thinking patent trolls are more a symptom of the problems. I see as reasonable:
    1) You don't need to produce a product to have a patent (think small inventors looking for partners).
    2) Patents should be transferable (can sell them)
    3) You can sue for infringement

    Simple as that you can now have companies that buy patents and sue for infringement. I suspect the real issue is #2 - if they are non-transferable then the inventor will have to license them. I think there would still be some troll law firms that represent a pool of inventors, but they'd have to share the "profits" and I suspect it would be less of a problem.
    Another issue is probably the duration - 20 years is a long time for a patent, but primarily they should not be transferable.

    I would argue that they should not be transferable from inventor to employer either, but that's a bit off topic - short version: your employment papers might include automatic licensing of inventions to the company under some terms. The US does not recognize companies as inventors - and rightly so IMHO.

    1. Re:I'm not sure their the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      All that is needed is "new" laws on Champerty and Trial-by-Combat, and patent trolling could become a new spectator sport! What could possibly go wrong?

  4. So in reality: Nothing will change by hsmith · · Score: 2

    "Executive Actions" mean diddly squat. Executive Orders are nothing more than directions to executive agencies how to enforce the existing law. He can't create new law (well I guess he can try) by fiat. So, unless Congress gets off its lazy ass and fixes patents, this does nothing.

    1. Re:So in reality: Nothing will change by TitusGroan8856 · · Score: 2

      very true, however there's a good chance that many patent trolling companies are in violation of RICO so a fire lit under the DoJ might be a good start.

  5. Re:Huh? by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 5, Informative

    The you clearly haven't read the law.

    Section 271 of Title 35:

    (a) Except as otherwise provided in this title, whoever without authority makes, uses, offers to sell, or sells any patented invention, within the United States or imports into the United States any patented invention during the term of the patent therefor, infringes the patent.

    The "uses" part covers customers who have bought the infringing product. It is not common to go after the customers but it is legal and there are examples.

  6. Seems hollow. by GWRedDragon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    From the same administration that rammed through first to file, now we're supposed to believe they're out to help innocent patent victims? Seems more likely that someone decided that patent trolls were getting dangerous to the big boys. Expect to see no steps to prevent monopolists from using obvious patents to destroy potential competition.

    1. Re:Seems hollow. by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Informative

      How does first to file change anything for small inventors? If anything it makes it easier for them as they will likely not be able to prove their date of invention nor afford a costly legal battle to do so.

      You do know it just means that if You and I attempt to patent the same device the patent goes to the first to file not to the first to invent right? If either of us disclose the patent first, like say publish some FOSS software, no one gets a pantent.

    2. Re:Seems hollow. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 2

      The problem is that the people who rail against first-to-file are ignorant of what the system is. Many somehow think it means that prior art, etc. no longer apply when nothing could be further from the truth.

  7. Re:Huh? by earlzdotnet · · Score: 4, Informative

    ... and protecting consumers with better protections against being sued for patent infringement.

    How's that new? I thought consumers were exempt from these type of lawsuits. Should I have been reading patents before wasting money on my iPhone?

    Do you not remember that case of the people who "invented wifi" in patent form? They went around suing small businesses using wifi. They did an interview where they were asked "have you gone after any home users?" to which they replied "not at this point".

    No one is safe from the reach of their filth. It's just that suing home users probably isn't profitable. I would be curious though as to what would happen if you acquired an obvious patent and tried to sue a politician with it

  8. Coporate Policy Stifling Innovation Also by caffeinejolt · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is indeed one aspect of the many problems with our patent system,. Another is the corporate strategy, initiated over a decade ago, which has virtually eliminated the interaction between innovative small firms and larger firms with the need for innovation and the deep pockets required to drive innovative products to market. After my small firm was purchased in 2000, I was ordered to inform all engineers that it would be a major (i.e. firing) violation of corporate policy if they let themselves become aware of the intellectual property of any other firm. I was told that this had recently been adopted as corporate policy by most major firms as a brilliant defense against the feared "triple damages" awards for patent infringement. Corporate policy explicitly banning any effort to learn about other firms' patents currently eliminates any possibility of a court awarding triple damages - even if patent infringement were proven. Since most innovative small firms lack the financial resources needed to take on a multi-year legal battle, even if they were able to show infringement on their patent, this new corporate policy amounted to a free pass for large wealthy firms to simply steal innovations from innovative small firms. The worst thing that could happen would be that the small firm won in court, at which point the worst-case punishment would be to pay 'damages' - which are defined as simply the amount that the stealing firm would have had to pay had they properly licensed the patents from the small firm in the first place. While this is considered a brilliant legal strategy, it is a disastrous national policy for technological innovation. It virtually eliminates the financial incentive for small firms to invest in innovation, by providing carte blanche for larger firms to simply steal that innovation; the logical large firm strategy in this case is to never discuss intellectual property with any small firm - simply steal it and defy them to take you to court. We do indeed need to make war on patent trolls, but even more importantly, we need to make war on patent thieves - by punishing deliberate ignorance of patent theft with large penalties. If it is proven that infringement occurred, and that the infringing firm had a policy of deliberate ignorance, the damage award should be at least tripled. Or - we should start letting speeders go free if they claim ignorance of the speed limit because they chose to deliberately avert their eyes every time a speed limit sign came near.

    1. Re:Coporate Policy Stifling Innovation Also by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      The policy of deliberate ignorance also destroys the entire point of the Patent system to begin with.

      Patents exist to encourage the disclosure of interesting trade secrets so that everyone can benefit from them. If everyone is scared away from the patent database, then those patents really have no legal basis to exist.

      The same goes for patents that are useless as documentation.

      Every creative work is meant to be "pirated" sooner or later.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  9. Re:Huh? by devjoe · · Score: 4, Informative

    The you clearly haven't read the law.

    Section 271 of Title 35:

    (a) Except as otherwise provided in this title, whoever without authority makes, uses, offers to sell, or sells any patented invention, within the United States or imports into the United States any patented invention during the term of the patent therefor, infringes the patent.

    The "uses" part covers customers who have bought the infringing product. It is not common to go after the customers but it is legal and there are examples.

    As an example of going after customers, see the story about patent trolls extorting money from business who use scan-to-email functionality. There are more recent stories on this subject, but this one from January is what I can find right now.

  10. Re:serious patent question by EmagGeek · · Score: 4, Funny

    Just call it "System and Method for use of a Combination of Reciprocating Frictional Motion and Visual Stimuli for the Production of Half-Sequence Genomes in a Saline Solution."

    They'll approve that in no time.

  11. Re:Good ... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sorry, but Obama can't fix that. It would require a rewrite of current Patent law, which say that anyone who makes *or uses* a patented technology without license is infringing.

    If he can ignore the 4th amendment, occasionally the 1st amendment, and target citizens for assassination why should patent law be any different?

    When I buy something, I do not enter into a license with everyone who owns a patent on every aspect of what I buy. I buy a friggin' product -- the pissing contests aren't my problem.

    Like I said, by the time I can walk into Wal Mart and buy something, you need to indemnify the consumer. Because at the check out, there isn't a place where I initial a license with some company I've never heard of. If the vendor isn't compliant, well, that's their problem.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  12. neither makes sense by Chirs · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If two people independently invent something, then I think it should be non-patentable by definition.

    The whole point of patents is to make public information on how to do something *that would otherwise be lost*. If multiple people independently invent something, then it seems to me that it is not in danger of being lost.

    If the only reason something is patentable is because nobody ever had that specific problem before, but the solution is obvious to an expert, then it shouldn't be patentable.

  13. Re:Good by gmuslera · · Score: 2

    Making the competition paying them 1b dollars, or limit their distribution, over patents should count. And trolling with patents won't make you a patent troll, after all?