AT&T Rolls Out iPhone Wireless Emergency Alerts

First time accepted submitter TigerPlish writes "AT&T has rolled out Wireless Emergency Alerts for iPhones. The alerts are for huge catastrophes (a Presidential Alert), for weather / natural calamities, and for AMBER alerts. One can turn off the latter two, but the Presidential alert cannot be turned off. The article mentions only 4S and 5 get this update. That said, I have a 4 and it got the update this morning. This was enacted in 2006, for those keeping track of such things. I, for one, do not care for this any more than I like the idea of them reading my communications to begin with. Oh, I'm sorry, the "metadata" from my communications." As promised.

Comments

Mass SMS?

[r2kordmaa]

Why cant emergency services just use plain old SMS service? "don't go outside, there is a hurricane if you havent noticed"

Re:Mass SMS?

[Anonymous Coward]

That wouldn't make the Public Servant in Chief feel special, would it?

Re:Mass SMS?

[jrmcferren]

Simple, a mass SMS would overload the network in a situation where the network is stressed. Plus it takes longer to determine all the numbers that need to receive the message.

Re:Mass SMS?

[r2kordmaa]

SMS works in the network overhead anyway, it can not overload the network.

Re:Mass SMS?

[Goaway]

So then it will be too slow instead.

Re:Mass SMS?

[supersat]

I believe these use Cell Broadcasts, which allows SMSes to be broadcast to all phones subscribed to them.

Re:Mass SMS?

[r2kordmaa]

How much data do you really need to tranfer? its just a short piece of string. And i think there is also a possibility for SMS broadcast. SMS was put into GSM protocols for just this purpose, using it for texting was not the initial goal, just how it turned out.

Re:Mass SMS?

[FuzzNugget]

I doubt it.

The control channel along which SMS runs is used to bounce a signal back and forth between your phone and the nearest tower(s). That's a signal that triggers every few seconds for keep-alive purposes and it's the same byte size whether it carries an SMS or not (that's why SMS messages are limited to 160 characters). Broadcasting a network-wide SMS should little effect on network congestion.

And now you also know that any carrier charging you more than $0 for SMS is full of shit (it doesn't cost then anything)

Re:Mass SMS?

[mysidia]

Why cant emergency services just use plain old SMS service? "don't go outside, there is a hurricane if you havent noticed"

They need it as a primitive for the "mandatory alert characteristics"; such as prominent warning forcibly shown on the phone's display, and kept on the display regardless of the user's intentions (or desire to block/suppress), required non-blockability of the messages, and mandatory interruption of whatever the end user was doing with their phone.

Re:Mass SMS?

[mysidia]

And now you also know that any carrier charging you more than $0 for SMS is full of shit (it doesn't cost then anything)

Yes it does cost them.

You are perpetuating a fallacy, that fixed costs don't matter, only marginal ones per transaction; this is the same sort of flawwed argument some people use to rationalize music or software piracy to themselves. The reality is that in business, all costs matter, and products in the marketplace get priced based on both fixed and marginal cost.

The marginal cost to the carrier per SMS message are very low or close to $0. There is no additional cell network capacity used.

On the other hand... what is consumed, is capacity of systems involved in storing and forwarding the SMS content. That is to say, when you send someone a text message, there is an entry in a database created somewhere -- that record needs to get from your tower to the recipient's handset; there will be some cost in terms of magnetic storage.

If they are purchasing enterprise class storage arrays for branch locations where they route these messages, the average cost is about $25 per gigabyte. at an average length of 80 characters per text message, and each message passing through each system, each text message costs about $0.000004, in storage that will be temporarily tied up; now, each processor node that receives and forwards these text messages, also has a CPU capacity, and each text message has a fraction of CPU and RAM that will be temporarily tied up as well.

When all is said and done, you can make the argument that a SMS usage, probably takes up $0.0001 in marginal cost.

Furthermore, there is some equipment the carrier has to purchase and continuously maintain for SMS functionality to continue to work. They also have to provide support for their customers, so there is an average operational cost text per message per month (in support terms) for providing a SMS service.

The average fixed cost portion, eventually decreases with sufficient number of text messages -- at least until equipment capacity is reached, and better storage, forwarding, and accounting systems are needed to provide more capacity -- stair step pattern, if you need to buy a $500,000 storage array, the cost per text message ever sent will initially will be very high, and gradually average down over time.

They charge users of the service more than what it costs them, per message

That's called margin, and is a fundamental requirement for a service to be worth providing -- if there's no profit in it, then the carrier should not provide the service. And you could make the argument that they are taking advantages due to the lack of competition in the current market place, resulting from monopolistic practices, and the government's anti-consumer practice of auctioning "exclusive spectrum rights", to supplement the treasury's tax revenues.

However The cost per SMS message is not $0. The marginal portion is zero. The fixed portion is not.

Re:Mass SMS?

[AuMatar]

You're perpetuating a fallacy yourself. They aren't building a system to do this- the system already exists. So those fixed costs are already paid for, and would be paid for regardless of this service because it provides other profitable services. So the marginal costs are all that matters, unless we get to the point where the bandwidth used by SMS is enough to require additional hardware to be built (which for SMS is never going to happen).

If they had another way to monetize that small amount of bandwidth used you may have an opportunity cost of using the bandwidth in this. But the fixed costs don't factor in.

Re:Mass SMS?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, its the only thing SMS should be used for -- instead of the cash cow it's become to fleece the brain dead masses.
The problem with using SMS as it currently stands, is that it is trivial to spoof and messages are in no way guaranteed to even show up.

Re:Mass SMS?

[andymadigan]

So, in case of emergency we're going to disable every cell phone? Well, that should cut down on 911 call volumes...

"Kept on the display" would be a problem. The message has to be dismissable.

My only "phone" is an iPad Mini on T-Mobile, here's hoping it never gets this stupid technology.

Re:Mass SMS?

[Gr8Apes]

While in theory you're correct, in fact, SMS can actually cost the provider. You can flood an SMS network with the right kind of connectivity and block all further transmissions.

Re:Mass SMS?

[mysidia]

"Kept on the display" would be a problem. The message has to be dismissable.

I've got emergency flash flood, tornado watch, and severe thunderstorm warning alerts on my iPhone.

The alerts are non-dismissable. They appear on the lock screen; they cannot be dismissed like other notifications. Every time you go to the notification center, the alert will be there.

The last time I received a tornado warning, that message stayed in my notification center for DAYS.

The alarm that is emitted when the message first received is very loud (much louder than the standard SMS message warning), annoying, and is emitted, even when the volume control on the phone's ringer/alert tones are at zero (In other words: the alert tone is annoying, and you have to wait a few seconds for it to stop, or completely turn off the phone's power to prevent it from occuring): you cannot make your phone be silent as easily with these warnings as with other alert tones.

Re:Mass SMS?

[mysidia]

They aren't building a system to do this- the system already exists. So those fixed costs are already paid for,

No... they have to keep paying to maintain 'the system'... which includes repairs, and maintenance: hardware also has a finite lifetime.

For example, a typical storage system has an annual maintenance of ~10% per component. After 5 years, the annual maintenance price tends to go up precipitously, so in general, the systems will be refitted not too infrequently.

The reality is that fixed costs are not one-time costs, and they matter. The marginal costs are very small, but not zero, and they matter as well.

Any business has to profit to stay in business, and has to have a return commensurate with the risks involved in their spending the capital, for investors to allocate capital to the business in the first place ----- and the purchase of very large expensive infrastructure equipment (for which there are not subscribers yet) is quite high on the risk scale.

Morover, a percentage of the cellular infrastructure itself is directly attributable to SMS traffic. It is not valid to say all these expensive components were just purchased for voice and data, and that SMS is free

If cell phones just needed voice communications, the implementation would likely be more efficient, and not need as-frequent control traffic.

Therefore, SMS messages as a product create a requirement that dictates a certain network design that would be less-efficient, than if SMS communications could be eschewed.

Re:Mass SMS?

[EmperorOfCanada]

Large Telcos dedicate way more hardware to billing for SMS than they do to making it work. The system is lossy due to the benign neglect. What is priceless is when they raise the per message rates. In my parts they are around .25 USD each unless you get a plan. I love it that the cost per byte is higher than the total cost per byte of the Hubble telescope including launch, hardware, ground control, and even a shuttle mission to fix it. So I call BS on SMS basically costing anything.

But this is all just a symptom of a larger problem. Most western governments haven't figured out how to best use this common property of spectrum. The bidding model is just stupid because it limits the players to the large oversized telcos. In Europe they have created a system of mostly incredible competition but the result is that few companies are willing to make the jump to more modern technologies which could result in the government just picking one which is great only if they get it right.

In Canada they hive of bits of spectrum for minor competitors which usually is made up of third rate frequencies that things like iPhones won't talk to. Then up until now they have let the major players abuse the crap out of the minor players until they are able to just buy up the minor players.

But all this only applies to G8 type countries. Some places like Hong Kong have rates around 8 bucks for 600 minutes or a prepaid rate of around 2 cents per minute.

So high SMS rates are a simple symptom of no effective competition. If there was real competition with the SMS costs being very close to zero there would be market entrants who would throw it in for free with their most basic packages and those packages would be also close to free. That company might not make a boatload of money and might even fail but it would be a sign of a healthy market. In my neck of the woods there were a bunch of pizza places really fighting it out then some pizza places burned down and a few companies took over the downtown market and prices almost exactly doubled per slice.

Re:Mass SMS?

[AuMatar]

And the network already exists because it causes profit with other uses. Adding SMSes does not increase the cost of maintenance. So yes, SMSes are still actually free.

Re:Mass SMS?

[swalve]

You need the machines to process the SMS messages. And wires to carry them. The last mile of transport might be "free", but the rest of it isn't. And, there ARE employees whose jobs are at least partially dedicated to supporting the SMS infrastructure. If there is any measurable work done by any employee to support SMS messaging, then it's not free.

Re:Mass SMS?

[swalve]

Should have bought a better phone. That stuff is customizable on other platforms.

Re:Mass SMS?

[mysidia]

And the network already exists because it causes profit with other uses. Adding SMSes does not increase the cost of maintenance.

What causes you to arbitrarily state that causes profit with other uses?

Perhaps it's those other uses that are free, and SMS that is not.

No. Your notion that no cost should be attributed to SMS is just bs. When you have a capital asset that is used in multiple businesses, then it has costs are attributable to all the businesses, because all the businesses involved consume or require the presence of an incremental portion of resources.

Furthermore, you glazed over the support costs for SMS which are recurring, likely much larger than the equipment costs, and would not occur if SMS service was not being offered.

Re:Mass SMS?

[davester666]

Yes, but now that they are making a zillion percent profit on SMS messages, they can't go back to using it for it's original purpose. They are money-whores.

Re:Mass SMS?

[perryizgr8]

i'm pretty sure all those are just limitations of ios.

Re:Mass SMS?

[Krojack]

It would still be faster and more efficient to send out a single broadcast message from each tower in the affected area. Would you rather send a message to 10.255.255.255 or to each IP individually?

Re:Mass SMS?

[Anonymous Coward]

I worked on an early implementation of this, before the final FCC regulations were done. The problem with the plain old SMS service is that it doesn't work for an emergency situation, at least not where timeliness is concerned. The problem is that SMS messages go over the traffic channel. So if you are in a geographically concentrated area and have thousands of phones on one or two cells the system is swamped. Also the companies prioritize voice traffic over SMS and thus SMS gets throttled. This was tested at Virginia Tech and it took hours to distributed an emergency alert via SMS.

The emergency alerts are broadcast SMS messages, these are sent on a broadcast slot on the paging channel. The phones are supposed to listen to the broadcast slot as well as their assigned slot on the paging channel. This allows all phones to receive a single message without using the traffic channel. This requires that the message be small enough to fit in a paging time slot, that is something like 120 characters of 7bit packed ascii and includes the headers.

Re:Mass SMS?

[T-Bone-T]

The flash flood warning I got this evening was easily dismissible from my notification center.

Re:Mass SMS?

[jbolden]

I have no idea about Canada and obvious SMS is not a separate system.. However, annual costs of maintenance and expansion of the network dwarf by 3 orders of magnitude the cost of automated billing systems.

it was designed for it.

[gl4ss]

that's the fucking hilarious part! I'm laughing my ass off here at this. Wireless Emergency Alerts! FUCKING BRILLIANT! if they had done their gsm networks as they were supposed to they would have had these localized alerts long time ago.

nobody really uses them in anywhere in the world for much anything though, I think it's probably because areas that have this implemented aren't hit with catastrophes that would warrant such.. around here basically there would have to be a bombing raid I think.. I mean, just a "bear in downtown" or shit like that wouldn't be serious enough.

I don't think they're going to be broadcasting info about shootings etc over this in the states either..

Re:it was designed for it.

[tysonedwards]

Well, it *was* used just last week for the Oklahoma Tornado.
With regards to shootings or a bear in town, DUH! Do you really expect this to be used as a "news source"? Also, zero difference to the Emergency Broadcast System, just now putting it on an iPhone. Oh wait! Someone rush out and file a patent!

Re:it was designed for it.

[Anonymous Coward]

No it was not. SMS is a byproduct of the signaling. It was build so the carrier can send small bits of information to it's customers, *BUT NOT ALL AT ONCE*. You're thinking of CELL BROADCAST, this is intended to send information in an area to ALL logged in phones.

Re:it was designed for it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah - Cell Broadcast Service has been available on GSM/UMTS-based networks, and handsets for ages, and yet hardly anyone actually uses it (save maybe for O2's HomeZone thingy that broadcasts PSTN area codes) in most of the world.

Re:it was designed for it.

[swalve]

The network could do it (it's part of the GSM spec, as you note), but the phones didn't have the software. My Blackberry has been getting these alerts for 6-12 months now. SMS would be a horrible idea, because they are not prioritized traffic on the network, and not broadcastable. You'd have to have a machine generating SMS messages for every phone number, which would take days to get through and probably take down the network.

Re:it was designed for it.

[Krojack]

I'm also guessing that the phone doesn't have to have active service to receive and alert you. Just like you can call 911 from any phone even those without service. As long as the phone is on, you get the alert.

Also some people still get charged for receiving SMS believe it or not. Just think if the idiots that would try to reply back to the alert SMS as well. Sure they can be dumped to null but they still have to travel through the network to get there.

Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[Etcetera]

You're an idiot if you're complaining about this. The EAS (and its predecessor, the EBS) has been around for almost 50 years and is a necessary, though at times potentially ineffective, capability to have. From the mid-90s into the late 2000's there was concern that the "traditional" methods of activation would be come less and less effective.

Every single broadcast TV and radio station has a manual right in the control room and there's an out-of-band method for heirarchical distribution of messages from local relays to cut in at a moment's notice.

The problems were that people nowadays were spending more and more time away from live, regulated broadcasts, and with cell phones instead of land lines (for reverse 911 calls in the event of an evacuation).

Extending these regulations to "channels where people are actually spending their time" is an important part of keeping the system relevant. Cable systems have been doing text overlays (scrolling text for EAS tests or NWS alerts) for a while, but that now cuts through into your cable-provided DVR if you have one. Netflix and other streaming providers have ways of injecting data into the feed. Hell, at a game company I used to work for there was talk of using zip code subscriber data to forward NWS alerts to users *within the game* to ensure that someone didn't miss a tornado warning if they were spending the evening with their favorite MMORPG and the radio off.

Extending this to cell phone towers and multicast paging simply makes sense. It's not nefarious, it's just good public policy.

(And this is coming from someone definitely of the libertarian-conservative mindset, and no fan of the current President.)

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[Anonymous Coward]

Where i live, the sirens go off and if you care you turn on the tv/radio/etc.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[TigerPlish]

You're an idiot if you're complaining about this.

Well, good day to you too, sir.

My complaint isn't about the message, it's the method of delivery. Or rather, the inability to turn off The President's Mouthpiece.

I can turn off the AMBER and weather alerts, but not The President's Mouthpiece. That's the part that truly gets my goat. Now listen to your phone like the good little citizen you are!

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[krisyan]

I agree. I've gotten tornado warnings and flash flood warnings on my phone that I probably wouldn't have gotten as quickly otherwise. I love that it's based on my location so I don't get alerts for an area I'm not in, and miss alerts for the area I'm currently in. I also like that it forces me to acknowledge the message. A simple text message isn't enough to wake me up in the middle of the night, but I like that this will wake me up if there's a tornado warning. I like to think of it as a weather radio built into my phone.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[Anonymous Coward]

you forgot that some people simply do not give a fuck what some government asshole wants to bother them with

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[T-Bone-T]

I've never even heard a Presidential Alert so I'm not worried about it.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[PNutts]

You're an idiot if you're complaining about this.

Well, good day to you too, sir.

My complaint isn't about the message, it's the method of delivery. Or rather, the inability to turn off The President's Mouthpiece.

I can turn off the AMBER and weather alerts, but not The President's Mouthpiece. That's the part that truly gets my goat. Now listen to your phone like the good little citizen you are!

I can't imagine being so rigid and closed minded that I wouldn't want to receive a message during a national emergency. Your position isn't interesting enough to find out if it's any president, any political party, or you're simply an anarchist. If it gives you any comfort, no president has used this type of notification in the past 50 years. Now go get your custom firmware to block it like the good little tin foil hat drone you are!

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't like having anything forced down my throat. I can't stand AMBER alerts. It's always a non-costodial parent, not some random kindnapping. It scared the hell out of me when my phone started vibrating and yelling just because another kid went missing. That's not so bad, because I can opt out. But I can't turn off presidental alerts? WTF? It's my fucking phone. I'm libertarian-liberal and I don't think anyone should be able to force me to leave that turned on.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[silas_moeckel]

The key issue with it is it demands that presidential broadcasts go through. I'm ok with a required default on. Tivo/Comcast implemented this badly at first weather a NWS alert for 2 states away would flip me to live tv and no allow me to ignore it, Asside for turning the tv off you had to watch it twice in English and Spanish all the way through before your device returned control to the owner. Now mind you since I used DPMS to turn the TV off this means that a test alert at 3am would pop the TV on to do so. Why can I not configure it to never give me Spanish should it not give whatever language the device UI is set for? Can we not setup priorities I don't care about flash floods heavy rain etc I have a window and can feel that sort of thing in my bones anyways.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[silas_moeckel]

And the problem with a default on rather than can not be disabled??

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[DarkOx]

Well imagine harder. The president is such a sack of shit I don't accept anything as true until I can independently verify it. So listing to him before hearing from other more trust worthy sources first is pretty useless. Usually when I hear the president on the television news or radio at this point I just turn the station.

I'll find out what he had to say later with some other information and analysis around it thank you very much.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[DarthBart]

If only there were a button in the "Govermnent Alerts" part of the "Notifications" menu that allowed you to turn off AMBER alerts separately.

And if only there were another button that allowed you to turn off the rest of the Alerts as well.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[Anonymous Coward]

Where I live, the emergency siren sounds every Tuesday at 12:00 noon, sharp!
As instructed by the Civil Defense authorities, I always run into my cellar and hide.
When I come out, usually in about an hour, I notice that everything has been restored to normal.
I'm thankful that we have these emergency sirens. They have saved my life fifty two times in the past year.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[WaffleMonster]

You're an idiot if you're complaining about this.

I'm an idiot.

From the mid-90s into the late 2000's there was concern that the "traditional" methods of activation would be come less and less effective.

Denial of end-user to disable messaging they do not wish to receive is my problem with this scheme.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[Etcetera]

It's against FCC regulations for *any* broadcaster to continue broadcasting during a Presidential alert... If they can't simulcast to transmit it, they're supposed to either go dark or transmit a message advising people to tune to the L1 or L2 transmission station in their area. It's been like than since the founding after the Cuban Missile Crisis... If you have a problem, take it up with President Kennedy.

Extending that principle, or non-ability to block messages, to other communications mediums is fine by me.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[Etcetera]

It's against FCC violations to keep transmitting regular programming during a Presidential EAN alert. An un-blockable system message that "Oh, btw, the Russians just nuked us" is not that big a deal.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[mysidia]

You're an idiot if you're complaining about this. The EAS (and its predecessor, the EBS) has been around for almost 50 years and is a necessary, though at times potentially ineffective, capability to have. From the mid-90s into the late 2000's there was concern that the "traditional" methods of activation would be come less and less effective.

My biggest problem with the EAS is I think it's abused. I frequently have cable broadcasts interrupted in the middle of a program for "tests", or for "a severe thunderstorm warning" somewhere.

The fact of the matter, is it is an abusive intrusion that I should have a right to escape.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[Etcetera]

I would advise you to check the FCC Rule 15 Part B disclaimer in the legal section of your cell phone's manual.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[mysidia]

It's always a non-costodial parent, not some random kindnapping. It scared the hell out of me when my phone started vibrating and yelling just because another kid went missing.

See... the AMBER alert laws, need to be changed, so an alert only goes out if the person reporting them missing swears that the kidnapper was unknown or "all custodial parents signed off on the report", or there was evidence (besides the kidnapping), that the child is in danger.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[noh8rz10]

i'm so tired of people on the 'illegitimate president' rant because he's black. also, what's wrong witht he 17th amendment? directly elected senators, is that a problem?

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[Anonymous Coward]

You sound like a Montana militia man. Gets your goat? Seriously? Do you not like the cut of Obama's jib or something?

If the president is sending an emergency broadcast I'm pretty sure its important to hear. Being that its never been used I'm assuming this would be "aliens have landed" or "the chinese have landed in california". Most people would want to hear this; well those outside their deer antler covered shack in the woods.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[Anonymous Coward]

Well then these alerts (in the unlikely event that they are ever used) will enable you to get online right away and pull up Fortean Times, World Net Daily, and whatever other sources the clinically insane turn to, and verify with them if there really is a nuclear missile on its way from North Korea.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it defeats the fucking purpose of an emergency alert system?

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[fustakrakich]

Thanks for the heads up. I'm putting my TV on a switched outlet.

I thinks it's pretty freaky that people are buying TVs that do this.

Are they doing this to peoples' internet yet?

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[zippthorne]

Congratulations on your choice of Blue. When Red is in office, you guys can switch.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[mysidia]

Your comment about FCC 15 Part B is irrelevent, as this pertains exclusively to RF emissions, and we are talking about the unrelated matter of EAS.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[swalve]

there's an out-of-band method for heirarchical distribution of messages from local relays to cut in at a moment's notice.

Usually the secondary broadcaster has a box in their broadcast chain that listens to whatever the local 50,000 watt clear channel AM station is. When it hears the tones, it cuts out the program stream and cuts in whatever is being broadcasted on the "master" station. We learned this when the system got activated accidentally and the whole area got to hear Wally Phillips give away some panty hose to the 720th caller. I'm not sure where the local master station gets their feed from, maybe shortwave or some kind of dedicated phone link.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[Erbo]

Under this system, as with EAS, a "Presidential alert" (technically an "Emergency Action Notification" or "EAN") is a message on the order of "nuclear attack imminent, we're all gonna die." I can't imagine not wanting to get that kind of a message.

The EAS has never yet transmitted a "for real" EAN, not even during the 9/11 attacks. Nor did its predecessor systems, EBS and CONELRAD.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't know the NSA were spying on me so I don't care.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[Anonymous Coward]

How the fuck does it do that? The people who want to know still get the alert.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[Anonymous Coward]

When you turn off the alerts, will you also agree not to be rescued when you get hit by the hurricane/tornado/nuclear attack you didn't get the alert to?

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[afidel]

My only problem with the way they implemented EWS on the cell network is that they're not taking advantage of the technology. Last week there was a tornado 4 counties SW of me and headed in a SE direction, but I got a dozen alerts about it despite the fact that nobody connected to my cell could have possibly been in danger because even driving at 65mph you couldn't have gotten to where the tornado was before it dissipated. If they would target the counties/communities that were actually in the path of danger I'd be 100% in favor of the system, but as its currently implemented it's a bit annoying.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[Anonymous Coward]

I wrote in an anonymous response earlier that I worked on an early implementation of this. Your summary of this is exactly correct. These rules were put in place to update the emergency alert system so it is more relevant with today's technology. You don't even have to be a fan of the current president, this was done under the Bush administration and republican controlled congress. It was in response to the cluster fuck of katrina and rita.

Sadly the FCC came down on the side of big business. We could have had a much better system and had it years earlier if they had not done so.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[Anonymous Coward]

I grew up in Hawaii and the government tested the Air Raid sirens at 11:45 AM on the first business day of the month. We haven't had any actual air raids since 1941 / 1942, but it's good to know the system works if it's ever needed.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[X0563511]

I thought it wasn't based on your current location, but rather based on your billing address.

I was getting alerts from a different state, and when I called in I found that billing (for some reason) had my old address when the rest of my account was up to date.

Because of that nonsense I disabled all but Presidential alerts and have a different application that actually tracks the county I'm in (and surrounding counties) and does it's thing based on that. I realize it's not perfect - no data connection means no alert info - but in general I will know about things well enough in advance that I can have my 2-meter radio handy (which can pick up the EAS tones from the NWS broadcasts and make a lot of noise).

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[X0563511]

You mean the alert type that's never been utilized, ever? If it were to ever go off, you'd likely be reduced to radioactive ash in the next few minutes, or half the country would be underwater.

You're not going to get an alert because the President decided you should hear about his new 12-step plan...

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[X0563511]

The fun part about flash floods is that they are flash floods. There is little to no warning, and the rain can be tens of miles away (or father, geography permitting).

Such a warning prevented my being killed out on the highway, because about 5 minutes later we went from nearly clear skies to rain so thick you couldn't see 10 feet in a matter of seconds. Severe weather is not something to ever get complacent about. The sheer amount of energy involved is mindblowing, and nature can direct it at you with very little warning.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[X0563511]

Severe thunderstorm warnings are... warnings about severe thunderstorms!

Would you bitch if you ignored/missed such a warning only to have a tree land on your car as you drove to the store? Or perhaps if you had your skull busted in by a tennis-ball sized hailstone?

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[Richy_T]

You'd be happier if you read what people wrote rather than what you'd like to think they wrote.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[Richy_T]

Also largely useless. Many of us no longer watch live TV anyway. Receiving a warning about something that happened three days ago is not particularly helpful.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[noh8rz10]

god so many haters...

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[mysidia]

Would you bitch if you ignored/missed such a warning only to have a tree land on your car as you drove to the store? Or perhaps if you had your skull busted in by a tennis-ball sized hailstone?

Severe thunderstorms come with a built-in warning message, thunder.

No.. And those things are always risks, not significantly more likely to occur during a thunderstorm recognized as severe.

There tend to be thunderstorms 2 to 3 days a week, most of them are "severe".

Although there are never/hardly any trees falling or large hail.

Whether in a severe thunderstorm, or not, being hit with such a thing would be a freak accident.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[Agent0013]

I would certainly hope you are not watching TV while driving down the road in such bad weather then.

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[X0563511]

Radio still exists you know :P

(in this case it's a multiband ham radio, and when I know the weather is not as good as it can be I put the NWS WX broadcast on the secondary VFO and it will chime if the EAS tone is picked up on it, so I know to switch over. But they do make WX radios that non-hams can use, you know)

Re:Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extension

[X0563511]

If you hear thunder, the storm is already overhead and you are already in danger. ... getting hit by lightning is also rare, but that doesn't make it safe for you to stand out in a field during a storm.

Really object to emergency information ?

[perpenso]

I, for one, do not care for this ...

Seriously? In a large scale disaster (hurricane, earthquake, etc) you would be irritated by getting a free text telling you where emergency relief (shelter, blankets, food, water) may be found? In tornado country you would be irritated by getting a free text warning you of weather conditions that may indicate tornado formation?

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[Darkness404]

Because it leads to the ability to spread propaganda or misinformation (especially if someone hacks it!) to everyone with a smartphone and since it's "official" people will be less apt to question it.

Sure, the Montana zombie attack was pretty funny http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7pNAhENBV4

But when the AP (just one of many sources for news on Twitter) had their Twitter hacked to say that there was an attack on the White House, the stock market plunged: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2313652/AP-Twitter-hackers-break-news-White-House-explosions-injured-Obama.html

Now imagine if something like that AP tweet was sent to every smartphone in America. It wouldn't be pretty.

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[TigerPlish]

I don't object to the message, I object to the chosen method of delivery and the inability to opt-out of the most ominous. In other words, if the Government speaks and one has a WEA-enabled device, one must listen like a good little citizen!

You know, like those radios some governments had mandated you have. Good luck if they found you with a non-compliant radio.

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[PNutts]

Because it leads to the ability to spread propaganda or misinformation (especially if someone hacks it!) to everyone with a smartphone and since it's "official" people will be less apt to question it.

Because it leads to people making wild claims based on unrelated third party applications and services? Based on your comment I'm not sure what kind of communications should be allowed beyond "none".

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[Goaway]

It's a few letter displayed on your phone.

Get some sense of perspective, seriously.

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[Trepidity]

If it were rare and sent once, it could be useful, but the system as currently implemented constantly spams you with updates, the way traditional cut-in warnings on TV do. Once I know that there's a major snowstorm in my area, I don't need impossible-to-turn-off push notifications every hour just telling me that there is still a major snowstorm and here is a routine update.

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[perpenso]

if the Government speaks and one has a WEA-enabled device, one must listen like a good little citizen!

I missed the part where the delete button was disabled, and there was a quiz to determine that you had in fact read the text message prior to deletion. :-)

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[starless]

My girlfriend has Sprint which enabled these alerts previously.
Several months ago we were woken at 5am by a loud alert
at about 5am.
This was an Amber alert. While it's a great shame, we certainly didn't want to woken for this,
and there was nothing we could do.
Although the alert can be turned off, the default was for it to be on, which I believe is not the proper way this
should have been enabled.

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't need impossible-to-turn-off push notifications every hour,

Well, sounds like you will endorse the product then, since it lets you turn off the weather notifications.

If it were rare and sent once

Well, the one that can't be turned off (but the message could be dismissed afterward) has never been used in 50 years, is that rare enough?

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[Waffle Iron]

I hear that if you tightly wrap your phone with tin foil, then it will disable these alerts.

And the look will coordinate nicely with your hat.

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[drcheap]

Yeah, "nothing you could do." Except, maybe, TURN OFF that type of alert in your settings?
So you were inconvenienced once because of your ignorance about the included features of the phone. How is that anyone else's fault?

There are plenty of settings on my phone (any tons of other devices & applications) for which I do not agree with the default value of. That is why one of my first tasks is to peruse ALL the options and set them up according to my personal preferences. That is, after all, what those settings screens are there for in the first place.

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[anagama]

I'm OK with an emergency channel that can't be turned off provided it comes with a V:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oWs_voUPkk

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[starless]

The "nothing we could do" refers to our inability to help the unfortunate child the amber alert went out for.

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[mysidia]

In a large scale disaster (hurricane, earthquake, etc) you would be irritated by getting a free text telling you where emergency relief (shelter, blankets, food, water) may be found?

They generally don't tell you that. You have to watch the news and listen to other radio programming to find where the shelters are.

By the way... they interrupt the news and other programming with the EAS alerts.

Even the really shitty EAS alerts like "severe thunderstorm warning", or "flood warning" (pertaining mostly to some county 20 miles away that has some really low-lying areas), that are about non-threatening conditions, or conditions known 24 hours in advance.

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[mysidia]

I missed the part where the delete button was disabled, and there was a quiz to determine that you had in fact read the text message prior to deletion. :-)

Excellent reply to anyone complaining about spam in general. Viagra ads can be perfectly justified, because there's still a delete button :)

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[h4rr4r]

Correct, my phone. My device, not theirs.

If you want to send the messages fine, but I own this device and it does my bidding not someone else's. If I don't want it to ever make a sound that should be my choice.

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[perpenso]

I missed the part where the delete button was disabled, and there was a quiz to determine that you had in fact read the text message prior to deletion. :-)

Excellent reply to anyone complaining about spam in general. Viagra ads can be perfectly justified, because there's still a delete button :)

We are discussing a mechanism by which a text message can be sent during a Presidentially recognized state of emergency. That seems a little different from from standard email. When the President starts sending out Viagra ads I'll give your point more credence. :-)

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[perpenso]

In a large scale disaster (hurricane, earthquake, etc) you would be irritated by getting a free text telling you where emergency relief (shelter, blankets, food, water) may be found?

They generally don't tell you that. You have to watch the news and listen to other radio programming to find where the shelters are.

Its a new system that is inherently a highly localized broadcast (cell tower to phone). Its a bit of an assumption to assume that it will provide no more info than legacy systems. Especially given that in the previous upgrade (EBS to EAS ?) they seem to have tried to add county based localization, as you point out. I think there is a fair chance at finer grained localization given the technologies involved.

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[Anonymous Coward]

The "nothing we could do" refers to our inability to help the unfortunate child the amber alert went out for.

You ignorant fuck. The "help unfortunate child" is one of those settings you so blithely ignore.

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[Philotomy]

Seriously? In a large scale disaster (hurricane, earthquake, etc) you would be irritated by getting a free text telling you...[whatever]

Why should he need to explain his reasons to you (or to anyone)? If he doesn't want to receive such a message on his phone, why shouldn't he be able to block or reject it? You'd rather force the message on him because you think it's a good idea, even if he doesn't?

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[pthisis]

If it were rare and sent once, it could be useful, but the system as currently implemented constantly spams you with updates, the way traditional cut-in warnings on TV do. Once I know that there's a major snowstorm in my area, I don't need impossible-to-turn-off push notifications every hour just telling me that there is still a major snowstorm and here is a routine update.

The only impossible-to-turn-off push notifications are Presidential Alerts (the weather and AMBER alerts can be easily turned off from settings).

Those are beyond rare--there has _never_ been one sent out in the history of the Emergency Alert System/Emergency Broadcast System, not even 9/11 triggered one.

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[Goaway]

It must be very frustrating for you every time someone calls you.

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[Slashdot Parent]

It's not the information, it's the obnoxious noise that the thing makes that I hate. I was in a meeting with a client, and all of a sudden my phone starts making this insanely obnoxious noise at full blast that is impossible to turn off. I did NOT sign up for that level intrusion, and I strongly resent it.

It is my device and I should be allowed to decide if I want my phone to become a beacon of fingernails on the chalkboard.

Oh, and if you're curious, the important emergency notification that I received was a flash flood warning while I was on the 15th floor of a building. Real fuckin' relevant.

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, "nothing you could do." Except, maybe, TURN OFF that type of alert in your settings?
So you were inconvenienced once because of your ignorance about the included features of the phone. How is that anyone else's fault?

"Amber Alerts" override silent mode and other notification management settigns. (This little tidbit is not well documented in my handset's manual.) They can either be always enabled or always disabled, but not managed through the normal notification settings.

In their rush to make sure that no alert might ever be silenced, all they've managed to do is ensure that people will shut them off completely the first time they get one at two in the morning.

If they'd just made them work the same way as any other notification, then most people would probably leave them on during waking hours where they might actually do some good.

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[h4rr4r]

Not at all, since I control if they make a noise or not. I can even make sure it never takes up my screen.

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[X0563511]

I think the primary complaint here is not that the notices are there, but that the notification system itself has been demonstrated insecure.

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[X0563511]

The Presidential Alert level has never been used. If you were to ever get one, it will be of the level of "we are going to be radioactive ash shortly" and not some propaganda.

If you got one, the least of your concerns should be that you were annoyed by said message.

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[Richy_T]

Newschannel 5 has a service you can subscribe to where they will send you email/text and call your phone when there are severe weather conditions. Unfortunately, it was not localized and they would send out multiple notifications. Receiving a call at 3am, 4am and 5am for a potential tornado that's happening 600 miles away... We didn't stay subscribed long.

That said, my current smartphone has alerts. They haven't been too annoying (though the Amber alerts have been pointless)

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[perpenso]

Seriously? In a large scale disaster (hurricane, earthquake, etc) you would be irritated by getting a free text telling you...[whatever]

Why should he need to explain his reasons to you (or to anyone)? If he doesn't want to receive such a message on his phone, why shouldn't he be able to block or reject it? You'd rather force the message on him because you think it's a good idea, even if he doesn't?

How is asking "why?" forcing anyone to do anything?

Re:Really object to emergency information ?

[Agent0013]

We are discussing a mechanism by which a text message can be sent during a Presidentially recognized state of emergency. That seems a little different from from standard email. When the President starts sending out Viagra ads I'll give your point more credence. :-)

If the president wants to send out Viagra ads on the emergency channel, then that is his constitutionally granted power. If the president does it, it isn't illegal. Haven't you been listening to his words lately.

Re: Really object to emergency information ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to jump in here. My phone did NOT come with that feature. I had my phone set the way I wanted it. They added this feature in a push update without documentation. So go to hell. My device serves me and nobody else. It exists for my comfort and convenience, and I will not be bothered by this crap.

Completely useless...

[Darkness404]

I fail to see how this will be useful in a (real) emergency. After all, how long did it take for 9/11 to be known among the masses? This was in 2001, long before smartphones became the norm and long before wi-fi was everywhere.

I've got no problem with weather or AMBER alerts since you can disable them, in fact weather alerts might actually be useful during tornado season. But just let us disable everything if we don't want it. The entire "presidential alert" just seems like something you'd see in 1984 to spread propaganda.

Re:Completely useless...

[Overzeetop]

After all, how long did it take for 9/11 to be known among the masses?

Longer than it took for the plane to hit the second tower. I'm sure there will be a Cydia app that will disable it, and if you're so concerned about this invading your rights and you STILL own an iphone, you will have certainly jailbroken it already.

Re:Completely useless...

[icebike]

After all, how long did it take for 9/11 to be known among the masses?

Longer than it took for the plane to hit the second tower. I'm sure there will be a Cydia app that will disable it, and if you're so concerned about this invading your rights and you STILL own an iphone, you will have certainly jailbroken it already.

Bull. I slept through the first impact, (west coast) but my phone blew up well before the second one.

What can/would the President send to every citizen on this other than a declaration of nation wide Martial Law?
Storms and disasters are LOCAL issues.

Me "Honey, we just got an alert from the president that the entire country is going to be obliterated in 20 minutes!"
She "Nice try, but I still have a headache.

Re:Completely useless...

[hawguy]

I fail to see how this will be useful in a (real) emergency. After all, how long did it take for 9/11 to be known among the masses? This was in 2001, long before smartphones became the norm and long before wi-fi was everywhere.

What do you define as a "real" emergency? Since not everyone watches news 24x7, it could take hours before people know about it. An attack against a chemical plant or refinery could send a cloud of hazardous gas wafting across a city (even a burning building can yield toxic gases), so having a mechanism that can notify many people within a few minutes to shelter-in-place or evacuate sounds better than waiting hours for people to find out about it on the news. Tsunamis are another type of disaster where it's important for people to receive warnings as quickly as possible, since there may only be hours or only minutes of warning before it hits, and the earthquake that triggered it may be too far away to have been felt.

I've got no problem with weather or AMBER alerts since you can disable them, in fact weather alerts might actually be useful during tornado season. But just let us disable everything if we don't want it. The entire "presidential alert" just seems like something you'd see in 1984 to spread propaganda.

A "presidential alert" seems much like a natural extension of the Emergency Broadcast System that's been in place in some form since the 1950's (and there's no opt-out for EBS (now EAS) alerts either). Since I rarely listen to radio or broadcast TV, it's unlikely that I'd hear an emergency alert that's not sent to my phone.

Re:Completely useless...

[EvilSS]

"Presidential Alert" is just the renamed national activation. It's the core of the original purpose of the system (going back to the cold war). Since you bring it up, 9/11 did not trigger an EBS (at the time) alert because media coverage was immediate and widespread. Those alerts are really for something imminent and massive (think incoming nuclear missiles, alien invasion, or asteroid). Most likely you will live your entire life and never see one. It is NOT a vehicle for the president to send out political propaganda or campaign messages.

Re:Completely useless...

[Omestes]

What can/would the President send to every citizen on this other than a declaration of nation wide Martial Law?
Storms and disasters are LOCAL issues

Kids these days... they exists mostly for nuclear war, and invasions. Something that was a background threat not that long ago. They haven't been used, thankfully, but if they ever need to be used, it would be a good thing. I really don't see having the potential to send out an emergency broadcast as a bad thing.

Imagine in the case of a truly large scale disaster (such as an asteroid) , or an actual nuclear attack, not being in range of an active TV or radio...

What can/would the President send to every citizen on this other than a declaration of nation wide Martial Law?

Ah... you're one of them. But even accepting that this is something that might happen in our lifetimes, I would think that some segment of our population (the rarely vindicated paranoids) would like to know, so they can grab their 10,000 firearms and cans of beans, and go out with their bullhorns to scream at their neighbors "I told you so!".

Re:Completely useless...

[icebike]

(the rarely vindicated paranoids

Well clearly YOU need a little more connectivity to current events, but I suspect it is unlikely to come via s special notice from the president.

Re:Completely useless...

[Omestes]

Well clearly YOU need a little more connectivity to current events

So how's life in that FEMA camp? I'm sorry to hear that Muslim, Communist, jackbooted thugs broke into your house and took all your guns.

Things are bad, but not nearly as bad as a segment of the population wishes it was.

Re:Completely useless...

[Richy_T]

Hmm... Interesting idea for an app there...

How have we survived without this?

[your_mother_sews_soc]

Really, I'm n years old and it is a miracle I am still alive. I may always forget to bring my bicycle helmet with me but now I feel safer than ever. Will the President soon remind me to brush my teeth before I go to bed (or with the help of the NSA and IRS jack up my dental insurance rates if I don't)? Surely I'll deserve it. Maybe my WiFi enabled light bulbs will be turned off from Washington when they figure if there are three of us in the house but lights are on in four rooms one has to go. (One of us or one of the lights? Cost/benefit ananlysis leans in favor of one of us getting disappeared the next time we get a flu shot at the government overseen dispensary. Just sayin'.

Propaganda

[EmperorOfCanada]

This will primarily be used to put out propaganda things post disaster. "Our hearts ache for the people of LowerDisasterWater. We shall stand together in our unwavering support for their re-emergence as a third rate backwater."

Or worse it will slowly degrade into a useless bunch of PSAs about emergency preparation, evacuation routes, weather warnings, etc. I love how politicians seem to think it is OK to vote for exemptions for themselves in laws that people want without exemptions. Nobody wants robocalling, nobody wants text spam, nobody wants corporate funding of political parties, nobody wants to be molested by the TSA; yet politicians seem to think that it is OK to exempt themselves from all of these things.

I am very very careful about who I give my number out to. The last person I would want to have my number would be a politician.

Re:Propaganda

[Anonymous Coward]

This will primarily be used to put out propaganda things post disaster

No, it will not. As half a dozen people have already pointed out, national alerts have been part of the Emergency Broadcast System for half a century and have never been used at all.

Re:Propaganda

[Omestes]

This will primarily be used to put out propaganda things post disaster. "Our hearts ache for the people of LowerDisasterWater. We shall stand together in our unwavering support for their re-emergence as a third rate backwater."

Because that happened with EAS on TV and radio. Oh... wait... it didn't.

Re:Propaganda

[EmperorOfCanada]

Actually it did via various access laws that give politicians very low rates for campaign advertising. The claim behind the laws was that a network has to provide equal time but the reality is that it lowered rates.

Re:Propaganda

[Omestes]

Actually it did via various access laws that give politicians very low rates for campaign advertising. The claim behind the laws was that a network has to provide equal time but the reality is that it lowered rates.

Huh? EAS doesn't even have rates, its emergency broadcast. It has never had advertising, and the idea of equal time on it is not applicable.

Imagine the propoganda power

[guanxi]

"ALERT: Jane Smith sought as dangerous Communist/Muslim/terrorist/undesirable. Anyone with information about her, including her current location, known associates, or any suspicious behavior, should report it immediately to authorities."

Who needs a jury? Someone was just telling me that in the 1950's, they had to subscribe to some mainstream magazines at someone else's address, to avoid being labeled a Communist and having their reputation and career ruined. Imagine if Joe McCarthy had modern IT, including metadata and alert systems.

But don't worry; that could never happen here.

Re:Imagine the propoganda power

[Mashiki]

Who needs EBS/EAS when you have the DOJ, ATF, EPA, CIA and NSA already doing it to your enemies.

Their network

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't like what they do to your service, choose another.

First presidential alert

[Anonymous Coward]

"Hey you; yes you! We know you're pirating shit so knock it off. This message paid for by my masters; the MAFIAA"

Already on other phones

[crow]

I received a blizzard warning in February on my Galaxy S3 through Verizon, so apparently the only news is that iPhone is catching up. I suppose there should be some page that tells us which phone/provider combinations provide these messages.

Re:Already on other phones

[drcheap]

It's a combination of carrier & device. iPhones on Verizon have been getting these alerts for quite some time now. AT&T is the one "catching up" as you say.

Very half-baked

[SuperBanana]

You're an idiot if you're complaining about this.

Well, *I* am going to complain, because the system is implemented on my Android phone. It's been incredibly annoying. Remember that big huge east coast snowstorm?

It'd been on the TV and print news and intertubes for DAYS. There was a morning press conference and state of emergency declared. It was only after it had started snowing that someone thought to send out the alerts, and they seemed to make up for lateness through volume/repetition.

I think by the end of the day (at which point it was near white-out conditions) my cell phone had loudly alerted me to the weather emergency something like SIX times. There's clearly no intelligence to the system, or someone just decided that sending it out several times was best just in case we hadn't noticed the massive snowfall or had been hiding in a cave for the last WEEK.

Re:Very half-baked

[icebike]

People in Seattle got storm warnings about storms in the Caribbean, child abduction alerts for the midwest, etc.

It seems every custody battle is now escalated to an imminent danger of children being murdered simply so that
there is an excuse to send an EAS broadcast to an entire state.

Re:Very half-baked

[PNutts]

You describe what sounds like an intelligently used alert system. To use weather lingo it sounds like you are confused on forecast vs. watch vs. warning. This type alert should be reserved for "in progress" emergencies. What would be annoying is to get these alerts for days before (only to then possibly have it miss).

Re:Very half-baked

[NoKaOi]

It's been incredibly annoying.

I agree. In my case, it's because they don't seem to distinguish common weather alerts from real natural disasters. In my area (Maui), every time it rains there's potential for flash flooding, and everyone who lives here knows it. So every time it rains, I get a loud annoying alert every couple of hours. I can see out the window. Everyone who lives here can see out the window. But I'm sure there's liability involved because tourists don't know not to play in the gullies in the rain, and the state has been sued before when someone got swept out to sea (happens sometimes), so they are probably scared to not send those out and in reality it really could save a tourist's life. The problem is, if I turn it off, I'm turning it off for real natural disasters too. I want to know ASAP if a tsunami is on its way. I want to turn off the weather alerts (flash flood warnings) but not the alerts for real disasters.

Re:Very half-baked

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, *I* am going to complain, because the system is implemented on my Android phone.

I was actually in a meeting the other week and the flash flood warning went off with the voice spoken alert just as it started to rain.
After the quick WTF from everyone in the office and a few times since I've gotten used to it.

I wouldn't blame the fact that someone is missing a potentially valuable technology on one or two missuses, give it time.

Besides if nothing else it gives me just enough time to get my gun!

Re:Very half-baked

[mysidia]

This type alert should be reserved for "in progress" emergencies. What would be annoying is to get these alerts for days before (only to then possibly have it miss).

This type of alert should be restricted to unanticipated events that occured without notice, or clarity on when they would be occuring.

In other words: if the event was warned about within 24 hours. There should be no abuse of alerting systems to warn about what was already announced.

Re:Very half-baked

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a shame is so poorly implemented. In Japan the alert system is reserved only for earthquakes, which frankly you probably want to know about. "Why would anyone want to know about an earthquake, when it's pretty fucking obvious the house is shaking?" you might ask.

And therein lies the genius of the extraordinary technology they've developed. The alerts go off *before* the earthquake hits you. When you hear your phone screaming a siren sound, you have about 10-15 seconds to get somewhere safe, or prepare. Not long, but it's surprising how much ground you can cover in 10 seconds when you have to. It's a fully automated system, that takes advantage of the fact that earth tremors actually travel relatively slowly through the ground compared to the speed that data can be transmitted. In all honesty, the first time I experienced it, it was without doubt one of the single most impressive demonstration of mankind's progress in technology I've seen in my 5 decades on this earth.

Re:Very half-baked

[swalve]

And there were still assholes on the roads. That's why they had to close the subways and tunnels 24 hours in advance. It would take that long to cram it into people's thick skulls.

Re:Very half-baked

[swalve]

There were (apocryphal, I'm sure) stories of people seeing #earthquake trending on twitter before they got hit. Technology is amazing regardless.

Re:Very half-baked

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad the United States is not Japan and the only thing these alerts will be used for here is to grandstand about how useful our emergency response system and government are while providing no real use beyond grandstanding.

Re:Very half-baked

[Anonymous Coward]

Obligatory xkcd

Re:Very half-baked

[afidel]

Do the flash flood warnings come through as a severe alert or an extreme alert? If they come through as a severe alert (like they do here) you can turn off severe alerts and then you should still get tsunami warnings as I'd imagine those are categorized as extreme.

Re:Very half-baked

[ormondotvos]

I live on a fault, near the ocean. I'll take any warning I can get.

refund the costs?

[Anonymous Coward]

My current service plan charges me 15 cents per SMS message received. Is the president going to refund this money?

Re:refund the costs?

[PNutts]

RTFA and enjoy "Learning and Growing"!

Re:refund the costs?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you new here? Who reads the articles before commenting?

Re:refund the costs?

[PNutts]

Yeah, probably too soon for an Aquabats season 2 reference.

Hack it to disable it

[Anonymous Coward]

Would be nice is someone hacked it to disable this. I don't really care about these alerts. I sure don't care what Obama has to say with his presential alerts. And I don't like Att, the government or apple shoving anything on my phone without my permission. It's like forcing motorcycle riders to wear helmets. It is my choice. I have disabled it. I like my freedom thank you.

Re:Hack it to disable it

[EvilSS]

You realize that the "Presidential Alerts" are for things like imminent nuclear attack and other such "kiss your ass goodbye" national moments? There has never been a national activation of the alert system in the history of the system (going back to the EBS and before that the CONELRAD system. Ever. Not even during 9/11, the most significant event on US soil since Pearl Harbor.

Re:Hack it to disable it

[drcheap]

... and other such "kiss your ass goodbye" national moments...

Like when dolphins need broadcast "So long, and thanks for all the fish" on their way out?

Re:Hack it to disable it

[Anonymous Coward]

and there had never been a president that murdered united states citizens by dropping missiles on them either, but here we are.

Re:Hack it to disable it

[Anonymous Coward]

You realize that the "Presidential Alerts" are for things like imminent nuclear attack and other such "kiss your ass goodbye" national moments? There has never been a national activation of the alert system in the history of the system

The dinosaur bones are dusted every day.
The cards tell how old we guess the dinosaur bones are.
Here a head was seven feet long, horns with a hell of a ram,
Humping the humps of the Montana mountains.

The respectable school children
Chatter at the heels of their teacher who explains.
The tourists and wonder hunters come with their parasols
And catalogues and arrangements to do the museum
In an hour or two hours.

The dinosaur bones
are dusted
every day.

Carl Sandburg (1878-1967)

Re:Hack it to disable it

[Mr. Freeman]

Then what in the fuck is the point of the system anyway? I don't really need to know if I'm about to be exploded by a nuclear bomb. There ain't shit I can do about it.

Either the system isn't used, in which case turning it off isn't a problem. Or the system is used, in which case turning it off is necessary because some people don't want to hear it.

Re:Hack it to disable it

[Philotomy]

A quick look at the android source suggests that one could disable these by changing the default return value of the switch statement in com.android.cellbroadcastreceiver.CellBroadcastAlertService.isMessageEnabledByUser() to false rather than true. There are better approaches (e.g., adding a toggle switch to the settings), but at first glance that looks like a quick and easy way to do it (assuming you're able to build and install your ROM from source code -- but this *is* Slashdot...). I guess that doesn't help if one is an iOS user, though.

Re:Hack it to disable it

[Muad'Dave]

You realize that the "Presidential Alerts" are for things like imminent nuclear attack and other such "kiss your ass goodbye" national moments?

Those sound like exactly the type of thing I do not want to know about beforehand. I'd rather go peacefully unaware than screaming in fear and anticipation.

Re:Hack it to disable it

[strikethree]

Not even during 9/11, the most significant event on US soil since Pearl Harbor.

I do not know about that. 9/11 was a shocker to be sure, but Kent State was a real shocker too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

I would also say that the recent revelations about the NSA are more significant than 9/11. Some people died on 9/11. America ceased following its guiding principles when the NSA started violating the First, Fourth, and Fifth Amendments.

Neil Bush (George's brother) stole 3 trillion dollars from ordinary normal Americans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_loan_crisis ; although it seems Mr Bush was mostly successful removing his name from the scandal. This was worse than 9/11. Yeah, money is just money, so it is not the missing money that is in itself the problem. The real problem is that some people did in fact die from indirect causes relating to this scandal. You can not take 3 trillion dollars out without people killing each other, committing suicide, abusing their children (who grow not respecting others), etc. This was a true national tragedy.

TL;DR, you, and others, put way too much emphasis on the events of September 11th 2001.

And AMBER alerts ....

[Anonymous Coward]

I ignore AMBER alerts because most likely, the kid was taken by one of his parents because of the all too common ugly divorces that use children as bargaining chips. Especially, when you see a description of the kidnapper and a license plate. You just know it was the parent with custody (usually the mother because the moms get custody even if they're a crack whore who is a hooker to pay for it) who knows the description of the other parent and their license plate. Really; who takes down a plate when an adult is putting a kid into a car? Screaming kid? Yeah, like that never happens.

When a kid is really kidnapped by a pervert or child serial killer, he just disappears - no license plates, description of the kidnapper or other details to put in the news. Just a picture on a milk carton only to never hear from the kid again.

Re:And AMBER alerts ....

[Cyberax]

Bad idea. Quite often cars are stolen with children in them - in this case there'll be license plate info as well. And it's a good idea to make note of these alerts because carjackers quite often simply abandon stolen cars with children.

Re:And AMBER alerts ....

[AuMatar]

And do what? Do you actually read the license plates of cars you pass? And even if you do would you recognize that it was the same as a random string of letters and numbers of your phone?

As for the children- don't get me wrong, if I hear a child screaming "Get away from me, you're not my daddy" or "help I'm being kidnapped" I'll intervene. Short of that- do you stare at every little kid you see to check if they match the very vague description sent to your phone? Do you know the number of false positives and wasted police effort you'd cause if you did?

Nope, the AMBER alert stuff is useless. There's a point in emergency weather notices and major traffic conditions (flash floods, closed roads from earthquakes/rockslides, tornados, a bridge has collapsed, etc). There's a use for presidential (hey, we're at war and China is launching aircraft at us, you guys on the west coast go hide). The amber stuff is just feel good uselessness.

Re:And AMBER alerts ....

[Anonymous Coward]

Amber Alerts are good intentions and emotionalism overriding thoughtfulness. The program's operators claim that they've "saved hundreds of lives", but it's highly doubtful that most of those abductions (usually non-custodial parents) were actually life-threatening, and independent studies have shown little actual benefit from the program.

Furthermore, they're misleading to the public and contribute to a general state of panic. Law enforcement likes them because each one gives them a chance to show off to the public, spotlighting their pursuit of one of the most-hated kinds of criminals: child abductors. At the same time, it overrepresents the rate of these incidents. If you blanket a state with alerts every time a child goes missing, it gives people the impression that it's happening each time in their community. The public thinks that there is an epidemic of child abduction in the US, when in fact it's a statistically very uncommon crime. So they react by encouraging their children to stay indoors, drive them to and from school, and generally train them to be paranoid.

I don't have any problem at all about transitioning ye olde public-safety-alert system from TV, radios, and landlines, to cellphones. Time and technology march on. I'm concerned they'll do it badly, by notifying the wrong people or about the wrong things... but that's no reason not to try. Broadcasting emergency information to people in imminent danger (which Amber Alerts are not) is a legitimate function and service of the government, and it's fundamentally different from surveillance. If you don't get that, you're just as mush-headed and incapable of thinking rationally as the people who put together the "child safety theater" of Amber Alerts.

Re:And AMBER alerts ....

[X0563511]

Fortunately, on Android at least, you can disable everything except the Presidential Alerts.

I'm glad for this. I don't care to hear amber or silver alerts (it sucks, but I can't drop what I'm doing to start reading every license plate I see - that's what the Police are paid for!) and I have over means to keep on top of the weather.

For example, I have a real honest-to-god radio that I can use to listen to NWS broadcasts, and listen (and even participate!) in county-level spotter activities. Hell, I've attended an NWS spotter class - while I'm not active, I know how (and do) submit reports of damage and the like.

Re:And AMBER alerts ....

[ormondotvos]

Well argued, but unfortunately from the viewpoint of the abductor.

I'll keep noticing vehicle types like I always do when I'm driving (certain types like pony cars tend to dangerous behavior). As a parent, I'd appreciate such behavior more than excusing warnings as useless.

Re:And AMBER alerts ....

[Agent0013]

Well argued, but unfortunately from the viewpoint of the abductor.

I'll keep noticing vehicle types like I always do when I'm driving (certain types like pony cars tend to dangerous behavior). As a parent, I'd appreciate such behavior more than excusing warnings as useless.

If you really want to argue the viewpoint of the abductor, then the Amber alerts will let them know they need to change cars and dye the kids hair.

Re: Not Big Brother, and long overdue EAS extensio

[EvilSS]

You mean the presidential alerts that have never been used in the 50 plus year history if the eas/ebs?

Not that bad

[Fuzzums]

This is actually useful. This in contrast to the usual ^H^H^H^H applications that are pre installed and can not be removed.

Did two summaries get merged?

[FuzzNugget]

Because what do emergency broadcast warnings have to do with the NSA scandal? At best, it's a very labored way of expressing distaste.

And who's the dipshit engineer who thought this would be best as a whole new system that needs to be implemented differently for every OS and only work on smartphones? Why not just broadcast an SMS and call it a day?

fairly sure this uses sms

[gl4ss]

if the phone is connected to the network the sms can be put through.
in any case sms is 324r82309 times more reliable for this than using data link for it.

I'm fairly sure that this thing of theirs on the iphone uses the sms network. however, I'm fairly sure that the iphone had not implemented the flash(or whatever you want to call it) standard where the sms is displayed on the screen immediately. that's why they needed to push an OTA update to the iphones..

Re:fairly sure this uses sms

[Anonymous Coward]

in any case sms is 324r82309 times more reliable for this than using data link for it.

In areas of the midwest, I've had problems with sms messages taking hours to deliver or just disappearing and never getting received by someone else in the same town, despite normal phone calls and data working fine. YMMV

Re:fairly sure this uses sms

[TuringCheck]

The system uses Cell Broadcast, not SMS.
CB works pretty much like teletext or CC on TV so in a few seconds all phones in an area can be alerted without any extra network usage.
On the other hand SMS uses paging, channel acquisition and a temporary connection. A flood of short messages can bloxk the network just like it happens on New Year.

Use for AMBER alerts improper and dangerous.

[jo7hs2]

I was furious when they started using weather radios to announce AMBER alerts and I'm equally annoyed they are extending that to this system as well. These systems were designed for major public emergencies. Use for AMBER alerts and other emergencies impacting only small groups of people will only encourage people to ignore or deactivate their alert enabled devices. Here where I live, weather radios routinely go off for AMBER alerts. The average radio also goes off for a variety of minor weather issues, rather than only triggering for weather warnings. Many people simply unplug their radios after being woken up one too many times by a screaming alert radio letting them know there is a thunderstorm WATCH or AMBER alert. I imagine people will similarly disable all the available phone alerts, because the system will simply trigger far to often and annoy them. I know the very first thing I did when I read this article was find and disable the AMBER alert option. The settings were omitting from the article. You can find them in Settings >> Notifications, located at the bottom. There are two options, one to disable/enable AMBER alerts and another to disabled/enable "Emergency Alerts."

Re:Use for AMBER alerts improper and dangerous.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's just a small step from Amber alerts to even more annoying informational alerts. My little town just used the reverse-911 to notify us of upcoming soccer registration. Seriously, soccer registration.

Not just AT&T

[Anonymous Coward]

Metro PCS is already doing it. I noticed it on my texting app. I cannot uncheck "Presidential Alerts"

People of Earth, Your Attention Please

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice to know that when the Vogons come to demolish the planet we'll get a text message about it.

Bravo...

[Anonymous Coward]

Full points for false equivalence. I hope there's a natural disaster that wipes out your entire family except you, but you jailbroke/rooted everyone's phones to get rid of this so no one in your family sees the alert. Then you can live the rest of your life knowing that because you think a message saying "hey, we've got some crazy tornadoes" is the same as being spied on.

Annoying

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't care to hear anything from the President. (And it doesn't really matter which one who is sitting in the big chair at the time.) Those of you who value what a President has to say are free to listen, of course, but the less politicians have to do with me, the better I like it. I dislike politicians trying to force me to listen to them.

I'll figure out a way to prevent these from coming to my phone. Annoying that I need to bother, though.

Booh Apple - or something

[Plumpaquatsch]

http://www.att.com/esupport/article.jsp?sid=KB410692&cv=820#fbid=X5Yfnrwu8Fd

AT&T has several wireless devices that are WEA capable, including new 4G LTE devices. WEA capable devices will display the following logo on the packaging and in the device instruction manual:

Wireless Emergency Alerts Capable Logo

The following AT&T devices are WEA capable*:

• Samsung Galaxy S4 (SGH-i337)
• Samsung Galaxy SII (SGH-i777)
• Samsung Captivate Glide (SGH-i927)
• Samsung Galaxy Appeal (SGH-i827)
• LG Optimus G Pro (E980)
• BlackBerry 9360, 9810, 9860, 9900
• Motorola Atrix 2 (mb865)
• AT&T Fusion 2 (Huawei U8665)
• Alcatel 510A
• Alcatel 871A

http://www.slashgear.com/google-now-update-brings-emergency-alerts-to-android-4-1-jelly-bean-30244815/

There are three new features to note in this Google Now update: ... Support for emergency messages has been added in this update as well, giving you severe weather warnings and other emergency alerts right on your Now page. This will undoubtedly come in handy for the more turbulent areas of the world, and it could potentially save a few lives, so it’s good to have it along.

Yawn.

[jd2112]

I've had this for months on my Sprint Android phone.
I have actually received alerts for a couple of severe storms that passed through my area.

iPhone only

[Mozai]

Sooo.... people with celphones will be warned about city- or state-wide disasters... but only if they bought a particular product from one particular vendor?

Are Apple customers the only ones worth warning? I know, I know, "even restricting warnings to people owning a celphone w/ service is elitist," but this strikes me as being too elitist when it is iPhones only.

Re:iPhone only

[Aerokii]

I've been using the Galaxy note since late December, and I've gotten only one alert- an Amber alert. It's definitely not just iPhone that has this, they're just a little late to the party.

And for those who worry about what this might be used for... again, I've seen it all of once. No propaganda, no spam, no cost to me.

Re:iPhone only

[Anonymous Coward]

No jackass, it's also on Android. Sheesh, the anti-Apple hatred around here has reached critical mass. No wonder Slashdot is the least read technical site now.

Re:iPhone only

[tompaulco]

Sooo.... people with celphones will be warned about city- or state-wide disasters... but only if they bought a particular product from one particular vendor?

Are Apple customers the only ones worth warning? I know, I know, "even restricting warnings to people owning a celphone w/ service is elitist," but this strikes me as being too elitist when it is iPhones only.

Not at all. The iphone is just announcing it as if this was their idea when other phone systems have been doing this for years.

Re:iPhone only

[Mozai]

I don't hate Apple. TFA doesn't mention anything other than iPhones.
I'd be just as nervous if it said "Symbian," "Blackberry" or "Android" instead. It's not about hate, it's about sending safety warnings only to one type of person in your state's population.

Update? They've had this for over a decade

[buttfuckinpimpnugget]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_Broadcast

STAND BY for PRESIDENTIAL EBS MESSAGE

[Anonymous Coward]

the Presidential alert cannot be turned off

The lunatic he smoked the grass.
The lunatic he smoked the grass.
Forgotten promises, and tele-prompted laughs.
Got to keep the loonies on the path.

The lunatic is down the hall.
His secret room is down the hall.
He taps us all, 641B on the door.
And every day the paper boy brings more.

And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
And confusion paralyzes Capitol Hill
And if Iran explodes with oil-stained thunder too
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon.

The President is in my head.
The President is in my head.
You raise your phone, you take the call
Antisocialized medicine for one and all

He locks the door
And throws away the key
NDAA for you and me.

And if the bubble bursts, Bernanke in your ear
You shout but no one seems to fear.
As the dollar implodes like a punctured balloon
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon.

("I can't think of anything to say except...I think it's marvelous! HaHaHa!")

Presidential Alerts

[Somebody Is Using My]

The idea of "Presidential Alerts" annoys me, for some reason. Call it what it is; a "National Emergency Alert"; that's fine. But the idea that the PRESIDENT is somehow so important that he needs his own alert offends my democratic principles. He's not a king and he's not the heart-n-soul of the nation; he's a bureaucrat we've hired to manage the government. He's about as important as a clerk in the DMV (except he has more responsibilities) and he's no more worthy of adulation than that clerk. If the government feels it needs to notify me of an emergency, that's great. But I neither need nor want a direct line from the president.

Yes, I know it's pedantic. Yes, I know that I won't actually be getting a message from Obama or his successors. But there's increasingly a worshipful mystique being woven around our leaders that smacks of monarchism and I think that fits poorly with the ideals of this nation. So rather than name the messaging service after some bureaucrat, call it what it is - "National Emergency Alert" - and let's remember that ultimately, there's nothing special about our head of state; he's just another American.

Re:Presidential Alerts

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a good point. I feel your pain. It seems the human race has the desire for a monarch built into them... and when there is no monarch, they create one. Perhaps it is linked to a Jungian desire for a father figure, or a parent, or for someone to take care of you and make sense of the world. It is truly nauseating.

Re:Presidential Alerts

[Anonymous Coward]

"But I neither need nor want a direct line from the president."

Especially a one way, direct line. Although if you had an alert system to the president it could be pretty useful.

opt out n

[kimvette]

It's bad enough that these stupid alerts interrupt even movie channels on cable, and even streamed on-demand programming, now they want to flood my phone with this shit? I want to opt out of these stupid alerts. Do we have the option to opt out and tell AT&T do not send me these superfluous broadcasts?

The only "presidential alert" I want...

[jcr]

Is something that tells me every time the president does another power-grab.

-jcr

Re:This is Part of IPAWS

[Anonymous Coward]

Well that's marvelous.

Except you know, and I know, and everybody knows, that every time there's a snowstorm, that bitch is going to be going off every 10 minutes, for a week.

So kindly STFU.

Re:This is Part of IPAWS

[Anonymous Coward]

"There are a lot of folks working in your local emergency management agency who try real hard to keep you safe. "

A dead giveaway. "Folks". Obama can't open his fucking mouth without saying "folks" and either YOU are Obama, or you have the smell of his cock on your breath.

So kindly STFU.

That is all.

This is just a practice run

[xs650]

Once ATT gets the system worked out, they can use it to push ads to your phone

Emergency Alerts Cause Emergencies

[Anonymous Coward]

So I'm driving along trying to keep my vehicle on the icy roads when I get a text message warning me of icy roads.

THANKS, JUST WHAT I NEED WHILE DRIVING...

Once again Apple/AT&T is late to the party

[Anonymous Coward]

My legacy BlackBerry devices had this *years* ago on Verizon. I'm pretty sure Android did too.

How do you find out where EVERYONE is RIGHT NOW?

[ekimminau]

Simple! Send a presidential alert. Force your phone to "check in" at your 3 closest cells towers and BOOM! You have been triangulated. No warrant required. And the data all goes into the NSA data repository. No muss. No fuss.

Oblig. XKCD

[Anonymous Coward]

http://xkcd.com/723/

the wrong tree

[Anonymous Coward]

You're an idiot if you're complaining about this.

Well, good day to you too, sir.

My complaint isn't about the message, it's the method of delivery. Or rather, the inability to turn off The President's Mouthpiece.

I can turn off the AMBER and weather alerts, but not The President's Mouthpiece. That's the part that truly gets my goat. Now listen to your phone like the good little citizen you are!

The fact that this function, despite being around for decades, has never been used, for presidential purposes or otherwise, pretty much refutes the idea that this is a government overreach.

Face it, the Government isn't as stupid as you think they are. You're barking up a tree while the government is climbing a mountain.