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QANTAS Wants To Monitor Frequent Flyers' Home Internet

An anonymous reader writes "Australian Airline QANTAS wants to monitor recording frequent flyers' home internet searching and surfing. QANTAS will pass the data to US marketing partner FreeCause who are not subject to Australian privacy laws. Meanwhile the Australian Attorney-General's Department has been secretly drafting new data retention laws to log Australians' web surfing. The government claims it needs these to fight crime, yet is ignoring corruption by its own public service."

94 of 163 comments (clear)

  1. Drooling Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The madness must stop.

    1. Re:Drooling Insanity by ozmanjusri · · Score: 2

      The madness must stop.

      Have you considered not installing the toolbar?

      That way the madness doesn't start. Or if you have already installed it, you could, just maybe, uninstall it?

      Qantas wants frequent flyers to install a toolbar on their web browser that records their internet searches and web browsing activity for "marketing targeted and relevant products, services and offers".

      In return for surrendering personal search data, which Qantas will tie to its customers' frequent flyer membership, it plans to award users up to 150 Qantas frequent flyer points a month.

      http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/consumer-security/qantas-toolbar-to-monitor-your-web-activity-20130621-2omfa.html

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    2. Re:Drooling Insanity by memnock · · Score: 2

      The summary confounds 2 stories. The QANTAS story, at face value anyway, has nothing to do with the Australian govt. wanting to draft surveillance legislation.

      While they both deal with Internet surveillance, QANTAS is a commercial entity that people can choose to ignore. It is up front about what it is doing.

      The govt. on the other hand, while ostensibly public, obscures its activities by using hundreds of pages of documents to legislate laws that will hide behind "security" to keep its citizens in the dark.

      Based on the article about QANTAS, the consumer gets shafted in my opinion:
      "In return for surrendering personal search data, which Qantas will tie to its customers' frequent flyer membership, it plans to award users up to 150 Qantas frequent flyer points a month.

      A customer who uses the toolbar and never flies with Qantas would take 35 years to earn the 64,000 points required to fly from Sydney to London's Heathrow Airport."

      In my opinion, my privacy is available for trade, but it especially wouldn't come THIS CHEAPLY. Unfortunately, some schmucks probably won't care.

    3. Re:Drooling Insanity by demonrob · · Score: 1

      pretty sure its actually illegal to send the data overseas if the privacy regulations are less than in Australia.

  2. Worst Summary Ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Thanks Timothy for posting the most horribly written, inaccurate and misleading summary ever. You should be ashamed for this clickbait trolling. Anybody who reads the fucking article will see your summary has little connection to the truth.

    No wonder slashdot is such a toilet bowl now.

    1. Re: Worst Summary Ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      just read the article

      Jesus

    2. Re:Worst Summary Ever by retchdog · · Score: 4, Informative

      it's an optional toolbar which is, like the fruity oaty bar, NOT MANDATORY even for frequent fliers. you get a piddling amount of scrip in exchange for being logged. how much?

      ``A customer who uses the toolbar and never flies with Qantas would take 35 years to earn the 64,000 points required to fly from Sydney to London's Heathrow Airport."

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    3. Re:Worst Summary Ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      ok, but how long do they have to wait until they can get the hell out of Brisbane and down to Melbourne?

    4. Re:Worst Summary Ever by nitehawk214 · · Score: 2

      What was inaccurate about it? It sounds to me like Qantas desires to track everything the users of this toolbar does and send it to a third party. Just like every other toolbar.

      In 1999 a company cold-called me to ask me to sign up for some program to watch all internet use on my newfangled cable internet in return for cash. The telemarketer seemed genuinely confused when I laughed in her face, she said she really could not understand why someone would would have a problem having everything they do online tracked.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    5. Re:Worst Summary Ever by adolf · · Score: 2

      No wonder slashdot is such a toilet bowl now.

      Every community needs a toilet bowl. It keeps things sanitary.

      What's weird about /. these days is that the toilet seems to be just inside of the front door, inviting any and all to shit in it. And it doesn't flush; indeed, it hasn't worked for quite some time.

      So welcome to Slashdot. Watch your step.

    6. Re:Worst Summary Ever by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 2

      Big difference from Summery.

      Qantas customers have the choice of installing the search tracker and are awarded up to
      150 Qantas frequent flier points a month for doing so.

      Summery makes it sound like Ubuntu's policy of sending all search results to Amazon to raise cash;
      with no choice by users, nor reward of any sort.
      http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/09/ubuntu-bakes-amazon-search-results-into-os-to-raise-cash/

    7. Re:Worst Summary Ever by retchdog · · Score: 1

      heh. well played, sir.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    8. Re: Worst Summary Ever by fnj · · Score: 1

      It's a vexing headline, isn't it, because of what it tells us about ourselves. Turns out it's accurate in a literal sense. Qantas DOES "want" the information for simple economic reasons, and they may be using a somewhat underhanded method of coaxing people to give it to them, but they are not really stealing it. Of course when we read the headline we see a picture of guys wearing trenchcoats skulking around in dark alleys peering at our lives through our windows, poring through our trash, and planting bugs.

    9. Re: Worst Summary Ever by crutchy · · Score: 1

      it's "worserest", you insensitive clod!

    10. Re:Worst Summary Ever by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      ``A customer who uses the toolbar and never flies with Qantas would take 35 years to earn the 64,000 points required to fly from Sydney to London's Heathrow Airport."

      So in line with programs such as Frequent Flyer, Skyrewards and Flybuys then.

    11. Re:Worst Summary Ever by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      Mind if I copy this for next time?

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    12. Re:Worst Summary Ever by Dr+Damage+I · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't mind so long as I had a return ticket.

      --
      "Cursed is he who rises early in the morning..." Isiah 5:11
    13. Re:Worst Summary Ever by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      Is the title needlessly alarming. Of course, this is slashdot. "Wants" is a crappy word to apply to a corporation. the only thing a corporation "wants" to do is make money. If they can do this without providing any services or products, they will do so. In this case they "want" to track people's browsing habits because some American company will pay them to do so.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    14. Re:Worst Summary Ever by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Big difference from Summery.

      You are in the Southern hemisphere and the solstice was last week, so no surprise there.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  3. Just another... by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Just another way the West has fallen into tyranny. But yet, there is comparatively little outrage. The violations of liberty that King George III imposed on the American colonists were minor compared to the crimes that modern presidents have committed. But yet although there will be a posting on websites like /. and will be discussed by liberty-minded bloggers there will be no revolution, there will be no outrage. Isn't it odd how times have changed, when a minor (by today's standard) tax increase sparked a revolution but today's routine violation of individual sovereignty, violation of basic civil liberties and violation of basic economic liberties have created.... a couple of blog posts.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:Just another... by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It hasn't gotten to that (yet) and it didn't get to that point in the colonies, although there were sure some "isolated incidents" just like here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Johnston_shooting , http://jonathanturley.org/2011/01/20/utah-police-execute-no-knock-warrant-on-home-and-shot-and-kill-man-holding-golf-club/ )

      Colonial life under George III wasn't the "killing fields" but yet Americans look at that as tyranny but in 2013 it is much worse than 1776 and yet the west hasn't done anything about it.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    2. Re:Just another... by skegg · · Score: 1

      in 2013 it is much worse than 1776 and yet the west hasn't done anything about it

      Yet. You forgot to append 'yet'.

      There are rumblings in the West, which will soon turn into the roars of the Arab Spring.

      Just observe the abundance of postings here on /., on Twitter, Facebook. Weak at the moment, but it's just the start. Ranters can coalesce into action groups which, if they attain critical mass, can force the hands of politicians.

      In Australia, the Greens (who traditionally support online freedoms) have steadily gained seats over the past 10 years. I expect this to continue, albeit at the same snail's pace. A good number of policies of the current Australian government were borne out of the necessity of Labor to acquire and retain the support of the Greens.

    3. Re:Just another... by theskipper · · Score: 2

      Excellent point, King George was infamous for forced toolbar installations. When the users didn't get the tea they were promised in exchange for the installing it, well, the rest is history.

    4. Re:Just another... by ackthpt · · Score: 1

      in 2013 it is much worse than 1776 and yet the west hasn't done anything about it

      Yet. You forgot to append 'yet'.

      There are rumblings in the West, which will soon turn into the roars of the Arab Spring.

      Just observe the abundance of postings here on /., on Twitter, Facebook. Weak at the moment, but it's just the start. Ranters can coalesce into action groups which, if they attain critical mass, can force the hands of politicians.

      In Australia, the Greens (who traditionally support online freedoms) have steadily gained seats over the past 10 years. I expect this to continue, albeit at the same snail's pace. A good number of policies of the current Australian government were borne out of the necessity of Labor to acquire and retain the support of the Greens.

      The NSA tipped me off on this gaffe, you can thank them.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    5. Re:Just another... by Cutting_Crew · · Score: 2

      they (we as a whole) havent done anything about it because everyone is sitting at home, eating bon-bons, watching soap operas, jersey shore, dancing with the stars (while texting and playing on their other devices) and keeping up with kardashians without a care in the world about whats going on around them. Everyone will wake up tomorrow, go to work, mow the lawn, go shopping and pay bills and think about what other useless TV shows they will be watching without a care for anything else.

    6. Re:Just another... by NotSanguine · · Score: 1

      Tyranny? Huh? When was the last time you or a family member were pulled from your home without a warrant or just cause and beaten by any arm of the government? The West if far from the killing fields. Stop being so excessive with your rhetoric if you want to be taken seriously.

      Umm...It happens all the time. Although not to me personally. Most likely because I'm not poor and black or mistakenly accosted by jackbooted thugs.

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    7. Re:Just another... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      The only thing I've ever heard raised

      OMG, go to your local free library or do a bloody Google search before professing your ignorance.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    8. Re:Just another... by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 1

      Stop being so excessive with your rhetoric if you want to be taken seriously.

      I'm afraid this is Slashdot. You could be talking about the worst hellhole on earth, free of the rule of law, where you risk your spouse or children disappearing in the middle of the night, never to be seen again, where the even act of posting on Slashdot would result in your torture and the response is ALWAYS required to be "Yeah, but the USA is WAY worse!!!" [Or, insert other Western nation.]

      Usually these responses come from people who have never taken the money they would have spent on the lastest 'gaming rig,' to buy a plane ticket to leave their mother's basement and go visit the world.

    9. Re:Just another... by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 1

      So in the USA, everyone knows someone who was hauled away in the night never to be seen again?

      In the USA web sites like YouTube and Twitter are blocked?

      In the USA everyone knows of women and girls who have been raped by the police at roadside checkpoints, with no justice ever being handed out to law enforcement?

      Sure, the USA could be much better, but calling the USA a police state is an insult to people who actually suffer them.

    10. Re:Just another... by NotSanguine · · Score: 1

      Sure, the USA could be much better, but calling the USA a police state is an insult to people who actually suffer them.

      You are absolutely correct that other governments do worse things to their people. That horrifies and disgusts me. But you seem to be saying that we shouldn't call out the abuses of *our* government just because other governments are doing much worse things? I think the Federal government could use you as a part of their propaganda^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H public relations team.

      Are you saying "don't bitch because it's much worse elsewhere?" I don't agree. And for the record, I didn't call the U.S. a police state.

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
  4. Yay.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Oh goodie.. another toolbar - I have so much spare screen real estate left to use up, what else could it possibly be used for

  5. Things To Do With VMs While I'm Bored by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    1) I'm normally pretty shy, but, umm, if I had a VM, it would be okay with me to install the Airline Privacy-Invading Spyware Toolbar in a VM
    2) I would then do nothing on the VM other than search for My Little Pony two or three times a day, probably in the early evening hours.
    3) So that it looks like a trend and not just a rarity in the long tail, encourage other members of the Herd to do likewise
    4) Smile, smile, smile when some overworked jackapple in the airline's marketing department, confused by this spike in the data, paints a rainbow on a Dash-8 because the data mining algorithm says that'll make it 20% cooler.

    1. Re:Things To Do With VMs While I'm Bored by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, your web surfing history has nothing to do with airline policy.

      It's simple: if you are male, the airline will not seat you next a minor.

      Despite this being widely reported in the Australian media Australia's Sex Discrimination Commissioner Liz Broderick hasn't done ANYTHING.

      Wonder why?

    2. Re:Things To Do With VMs While I'm Bored by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Smile, smile, smile when some overworked jackapple in the airline's marketing department, confused by this spike in the data, paints a rainbow on a Dash-8 because the data mining algorithm says that'll make it 20% cooler.

      Why not? Last time I flew from Coffs Harbour to Sydney, it was aboard a Qantas Dash-8 that had been painted bright pink.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    3. Re:Things To Do With VMs While I'm Bored by ZorinLynx · · Score: 1

      I don't even consider myself a brony anymore but I still nearly fell over LOLing at this. :)

    4. Re:Things To Do With VMs While I'm Bored by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      This seems already to have been done.

      Also, QantasToolbar has logged your IP address to make sure that you'll never sit next to a minor on a plane again.

      Hopefully with enough more searching they will not seat you on the same plane as a minor.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    5. Re:Things To Do With VMs While I'm Bored by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What the ... check out your Sex Discrimination Commissioner's Twitter picture favorites:

      https://twitter.com/LizBroderick/status/263077789442392064/photo/1

      https://twitter.com/LizBroderick/status/263096340358238209/photo/1

      She really has it in for men ...

    6. Re:Things To Do With VMs While I'm Bored by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      ... paints a rainbow on a Dash-8 ...

      thank goodness you didn't suggest surfing goatse instead!

    7. Re:Things To Do With VMs While I'm Bored by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      Most of my female acquaintances thought the policy was sexist along the lines of why random women should be singled out to child-mind someone else's bratty terrors... Sux to be a woman. :)

  6. It won't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The madness must stop.

    Over the next several decades - or maybe as soon as a several years, supposed "free" countries will chip away at their citizen's rights little by little always using "safety" and "security" as the excuse. And there will be plenty of dipshits who buy into it and will keep voting those politicians into office. Until one day, we will all be governed by a pseudo representative government.

    Armed revolt? Ahahahahahaha! See, this time, that has been dealt with. While all the NRA members and others go and quit their jobs to fight the government with their AR-15s with the M4 conversion kits that they paid through the noses for, the banks will foreclose on their homes, their cash will be gone, and what do you think they are going to do for supplies - like ammo?

    Reload? And where the fuck are they going to get the lead? Or the kits to clean their guns? Or the powder?

    And, and bunch of yahoos who spend a day or so at the shooting range pinking away at targets will be no match for a trained army - or ATF agents who are putting down a home grown terrorist cell (That's what they'll be called in the news and you bet your asses that the NSA has got the NRAs member list!)

    What the current President of the NRA doesn't realize is that in the beginning of the US' Revolutionary War, the English were mopping up the colonists because they were a trained army. If it weren't for the French, we'd be like Canada or Australia.

    1. Re: It won't by Vinegar+Joe · · Score: 1

      Let the US send about 50,000,000 people to Canada......they can use the diversity up north.

      --
      "The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
    2. Re: It won't by tokencode · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure about that, Canada just passed a law that can send masked individuals away for 10 years if they are part of an "unlawful gathering".

    3. Re:It won't by phrackthat · · Score: 1

      Until one day, we will all be governed by a pseudo representative government.

      As near as I can tell we already are - the latest Gallup poll says that only 10% of Americans have confidence in Congress and 80% think that Congress is doing serious damage to our country. Our government is anything but representative of the will of the people.

    4. Re: It won't by ahabswhale · · Score: 1

      Really? Last I checked, they were in on this whole spying thing along with several other US allies.

      --
      Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
    5. Re: It won't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I turn 50 this year. I can give it 20 years and then I'm going inside for some lemonade, and the rest of you protesters can just get off of my lawn.

    6. Re:It won't by Seumas · · Score: 1

      PRO TIP: Just because you can voice a dissenting opinion and you have 500 channels of television to choose form and more fast food joints than you can imagine doesn't make a country free. Just because you're not being forced to work in labor camps and you don't have to fear for your life if you say you don't like the president doesn't make your country "free".

      Unfortunately, short of those things happening, we keep acting like we're the freest place on earth and we have nothing to worry about.

    7. Re:It won't by dbIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

      we'd be like Canada or Australia.

      You missed the bit where this imported prick running QANTAS is sending the data to the US to get around the stricter privacy laws in Australia.

    8. Re: It won't by fnj · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Good for you, sonny. I haven't seen 50 in almost two decades. I'm never going to be freer than I am now; hell, I'm never going to be AS free as I am now, and that's not saying much; but mercifully I won't have to live with this regimented oppressive shit too much longer. Bunch of pussies.

      At least I have my yesterday. I got to live in the most glorious period of the most glorious place on the earth.

    9. Re:It won't by fnj · · Score: 1

      Every hour of every day is a good time to stand against tyranny and oppression. Granted it's not directly related to the particular story under discussion.

    10. Re:It won't by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 1

      Is this the same populace of which about 50% don't care if their government spying on them?

      But yeah, why do the civilized thing and vote for good representation when you can just wait around until it comes to violence?

      --
      http://www.rootstrikers.org/
    11. Re:It won't by kermidge · · Score: 1

      Funny, that. It's been said that in the valley of the blind the one-eyed man is king; my reading is that he's the first one killed.

    12. Re:It won't by Aryden · · Score: 2

      Because it doesn't matter who you vote for in general. The people that run are chosen for you by a select few. And if someone slips in there that they don't want, they'll just drop millions on attack ads and the newcomer will just go away. Also, have you actually seen our media in the last decade?

    13. Re:It won't by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Stop voting for Republicans or Democrats. For the rest of your life if you have to. When enough people abandon ship either a new party will come into power or--more likely--one of the major two will change their tune to gather up more votes.

      If it doesn't matter who you vote for then why are the Republicans falling all over themselves trying to get the Latino vote back?

      --
      http://www.rootstrikers.org/
    14. Re:It won't by sincewhen · · Score: 1

      If it weren't for the French, we'd be like Canada or Australia.

      Yep, those frogs have a lot to answer for...

      --
      -- Braden's law of data: All data spends some of its lifetime in an excel spreadsheet.
    15. Re:It won't by YukariHirai · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If it weren't for the French, we'd be like Canada or Australia.

      It seems to me like you'd be better off if you were more like Canada or Australia. Australia certainly has better protections for its citizens in many areas than the US does, and by all accounts the same is true for Canada.

      And sure, this is an Australian company doing a shitty thing, but the truth is that companies everywhere try anything and everything they think they can get away with. And remember, they're sending the data to the US to be processed because the fuckery they want to do is legal in the US but not Australia.

    16. Re:It won't by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2

      . If it weren't for the French, we'd be like Canada or Australia.

      You mean, we will have free universal single payer healthcare system? Hooray!

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    17. Re:It won't by sjames · · Score: 2

      They'll change their tune, but not their actions.

    18. Re: It won't by Dekker3D · · Score: 3, Funny

      At least I have my yesterday. I got to live in the most glorious period of the most glorious place on the earth.

      You're an ancient roman time traveller?

    19. Re: It won't by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 2

      I got to live in the most glorious period of the most glorious place on the earth.

      This must be a reference to North Korea.

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    20. Re: It won't by frdmfghtr · · Score: 2

      And yet the incumbents enjoy something like an 80-90% reelection rate. That's the part that I don't understand. If Congress is doing such a lousy job, how do any of them last beyond one term?

      If your representation isn't doing a good job, don't reelect them, people! Do a little bit of research and don't be afraid to vote for an independent or third party candidate. If enough voters do this it won't be a "wasted" vote and maybe, just maybe, we would start towards a Congress that truly works for We the People instead of We the Big Campaign Donors.

      --
      Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
    21. Re:It won't by memnock · · Score: 1

      Like helping the British colonies in the New World circa 1776 helping win independence from the U.K.

    22. Re: It won't by sl3xd · · Score: 1

      And yet the incumbents enjoy something like an 80-90% reelection rate. That's the part that I don't understand. If Congress is doing such a lousy job, how do any of them last beyond one term?

      While the actual election is relatively free of corruption, the selection process for candidates is anything but democratic. There are few primaries, and caucuses are easily (and regularly) stacked in a way to exclude participation; most citizens are locked out of the caucus process entirely.

      Both caucuses and primaries have another overall problem: They are not about supporting a candidate; it's about supporting the party. As a result, instead of getting the most qualified and capable candidate, or even the candidate most likely to win the general election, you get the party favorite.

      Once the general election comes around, you have two wing nuts, and you have to pick which one you hate less.

      The whole system is set up to effectively shut out everyone but D's and the R's. It's considered a moral victory when a third party gets more than 2% of the vote...

      --
      -- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
    23. Re: It won't by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      So, you'll be advertising for those Mexicans and Guatemalans whose get up and go has got them to get up and go ... to Canada.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  7. Rip them off. by godel_56 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I like the "sign up, use it once, than uninstall" to get your "free" 200 points option. That is, if you're already on their bonus point system. :-)

    1. Re:Rip them off. by Mitchell314 · · Score: 1

      Install to a vm, partition, or unused machine?

      --
      I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
  8. nobody ever won a war with their customers by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 1

    but that does not stop corporation from trying to be the first.

  9. OK Why not by PsyMan · · Score: 1

    In the true manner of /. of course I did not RTFA but I can add that if any company needs my home surfing habits then why not, shirley they are entitled to it. I also think that starbucks should have full access to my webcam, McDonalds need to see the inside of my shed and Microsoft (notice I did not use a $ there) really need to know how much toilet tissue I get through every week. Next thing you will be telling me is that the tin foil manufacturers are keeping tabs on just how much I have wrapped around my noggin. (think its time for bed) NN NSA

  10. With great data comes great leverage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Well if you have a lot of data on politicians, you know their dirty secrets, you also know their opponents dirty secrets. There's a deal to be made there, and the law doesn't stop NSA/CIA from using that leverage for political ends [not that a law would stop General Alexander].

    We've lost out democracies. We went to sleep woke up the next day and democracy has gone.

    Look at this:
    http://boingboing.net/2013/06/20/nsa-boss-wants-companies-to-be.html

    "NSA boss wants companies to be immunized from liability if they follow illegal orders from the NSA"
    He wants US Corps to follow the military orders and ignore Congressional Laws, cutting out the Judicial and Legislative branches of government. Not only that *HE*, General Alexander is asking for that, not Obama. Obama is really out of the loop here, he still quotes what the law says the NSA should be doing, not what the General has ordered it to do.

    You have this already with the telco's. They obey the military, not the law. The law says interception can't target Americans, the military says targetting *everyone* is not targetting Americans. The telcos would normally challenge this BS, but they have immunity in exchange for competitive intelligence, so they don't.

    1. Re:With great data comes great leverage by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      I wonder then, if a bill requiring all public employee's surfing habits while at work be published regularly, that the whole idea of monitoring web surfing habits will quietly be dropped?

  11. what the internet needs: by wierd_w · · Score: 1

    *preface: I know you can't send data using entanglement. That isn't what this does. Coments along that bent aren't welcome.

    Recently, experiments have shown that distance isn't a factor for entangled photons, nor is linear time. This means that a small device for entangling a few photons with a similar device at a remote host, can permit immdiate knowledge of man in the middle attempts, if the entangled samples are used as a cryptographic feature.

    Basically, it's just another IC that you add to the NIC. When two hosts wish to enter a secure communication, they begin asynchronous entanglement attempts to create a correlated, random data set on which to encode the data portion of their messages to and from each other. It may take several attempts to arrive at a handshake. Once the correlated random sample is generated, the entanglement is propogated locally in the chip(s) with additional quantum bits, which is how the encode/decode pad changes and stays synchronized with each datagram. A man in the middle will hear only noise.

    In light of the NSA bullshit, and other insanity lately, there is a real and present need for a technology like this.

    It won't fix the "I'm with stupid!" Problem of installing the quantas toolbar, but it would go a long way on curtailing omnipresent goverment espionage.

    1. Re:what the internet needs: by retchdog · · Score: 1

      this is quite off-topic, really, but anyway: standard crypto is more than enough for (almost?) all applications, at least for now. what we really need is more people using what we have already. moving right along...

      the problem with your scheme is the "propogated locally" part; note e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-cloning_theorem. but it doesn't need to be that hard.

      if there is quantum comms but no quantum computer (or other magical crypto-breaking device), you can of course just use classical public-key crypto over a quantum channel to reap the mitm detection benefit as a bonus. easy.

      if, however, your adversaries have a real quantum computer (with a lot of qubits), you need either a new, harder classical one-way function (factoring and elliptic curve are both poly-time on a QC), or a quantum key distribution scheme. the former is quite likely impossible, but there are a few of the latter, e.g. http://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0105032v2.pdf

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    2. Re:what the internet needs: by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      I apologize for the highly tangental nature of the OP. It just bothers me greatly that there is such an omnipresent data collection and sieving aparatus actively at work, and that the support for companies to jump into that pool comes directly from governments lusting for such big data.

      (Quantas represents a feast of big data for the AU govt, and just a court order away. It's outsourced costs in action! As such, they have exactly ZERO real motivation to tell quantas to go hump a stump, like they should be doing.)

      Making it impossible for that big data collection to even happen on a scale that would be useful (you can't easily break encryption whe the key changes with each and every datagram in a genuinely random manner. This means attacks like rainbow tables and the like, or other technical faults in the encryption method itself won't reveal enough information to decode useful amounts of information, and the computational burdens of trying to process big data under those conditions would be too large, even for the NSA. Quantum keypairs represent *real* random one time pads for each and every datagram.) Removes the incentive the government has to allow private companies to be data aggregators like this.

      In order for public adoption to take off for something like that, the secure transaction mode must be silent, and also be the default mode of operation, in addition to being ubiquitous. As long as "all data free and clear!" Is the industry default, encrypted data will always remain an outlier.

    3. Re:what the internet needs: by retchdog · · Score: 1

      note that although q1 and q4 are entangled outside of time, this is done by centrally preparing two pairs: (q1,q2) and (q3,q4), and measuring (q2,q3). it's not magic: the qubits do need to be transmitted in the first place, just like regular data (except of course the channel is a lot harder to construct, and error correction is more complex).

      growing a one-time pad in the way you describe also requires a "one-way quantum function" which is not an obvious thing (sorry, haven't looked at qc in a while, but it seems very unlikely). anyway, ANY implementation of a protocol is vulnerable to technical faults.

      and if the spy is inside your computer (as it increasingly is), no amount of crypto will help you.

      i'm afraid the problem isn't technical. it's social.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    4. Re:what the internet needs: by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Qantas represents a feast of big data for the AU govt, and just a court order away

      The stuff is being sent to the USA so it's just an intelligence sharing request to the NSA away.

    5. Re:what the internet needs: by Meski · · Score: 1

      They're an Australian company, so its both! Let us celebrate. :(

  12. Why did this make me think of Israeli after hearin by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    Why did this make me think of Israeli after hearing this?

  13. Re:Austrailian slaves deserve what they've made by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    If a one of you had any balls they could turn your country into a charnel house...

    If you think that phrase has positive connotations, you are mistaken.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  14. Whats the big deal? by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

    Set up a sight with "death to <insert person in power here>" and write a worm that makes that everyone's home page. Once they realize everyone in Canada wants them dead they'll move. On second thought, they might move to the US. We don't need any more of those guys.

    --
    Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
  15. I wouldn't count on the NRA by L.+J.+Beauregard · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When tyranny comes to America, the NRA members will not be fighting the government. They will be at the rallies, waving flags and chanting slogans between the Sousa marches.

    --
    Ooh, moderator points! Five more idjits go to Minus One Hell!
    Delendae sunt RIAA, MPAA et Windoze
  16. Aussies don't have free speech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Aussies do not have free speech ""Some of us may presume that because we live in a liberal democracy like Australia, certain personal freedoms are a given "like free speech" Additionally, we presume that many Australians would be familiar with the US Constitution and specifically the First Amendment which states; "Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press", and we’re going to also guess (again for efficacy) that some people may believe that we here in Australia also enjoy a similar type of Constitutional protection: But do we? Well it must be said that Australia’s free speech laws are interesting to say the least...""

    ""First, let's get the easy part out of the way: Australia does not have an explicit First Amendment equivalent enshrining the protection of freedom of speech in our Constitution." http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/4529/do-we-have-the-right-to-freedom-of-speech-in-austr.aspx

    Talk to Aussies and you find they hate their government and think politicians are lying cheating scumbags with their snouts in the trough, but if you criticize them you can be charged by sedition laws by John Howard: "Sedition: An intention to effect any of the following purposes: (a) to bring the Sovereign into hatred or contempt; (b) to urge disaffection against the following: (i) the Constitution; (ii) the Government of the Commonwealth; (iii) either House of the Parliament;" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_sedition_law

    Not like these kind of laws are passed but not used. Albert Langer told the public how to vote on election day for a local candidate without having to give their vote to Labour or Liberal candidate in the end. The government jailed him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#Australia

    1. Re:Aussies don't have free speech by fnj · · Score: 2

      Not that many places do have guaranteed freedom of speech, and those like the US who OSTENSIBLY do (ha!) find that it is getting to be more and more of a joke. What they do is invent the crime of "hate", corrupt the courts to accept that absurdity of a concept as a valid legal principle, and characterize speech they don't like as "hate speech". Nobody is in "favor" of hate, right?

    2. Re:Aussies don't have free speech by YukariHirai · · Score: 1

      Talk to Aussies and you find they hate their government and think politicians are lying cheating scumbags with their snouts in the trough, but if you criticize them you can be charged by sedition laws by John Howard:

      I'm not sure why John Howard would want to though, given that neither he nor the party he led (past tense) are in government currently.

    3. Re:Aussies don't have free speech by gagol · · Score: 1

      Thank god big brother is here to protect us from hate speech!

      --
      Tomorrow is another day...
    4. Re:Aussies don't have free speech by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      Hopefully he won't be the next governor general...

    5. Re:Aussies don't have free speech by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I thought the GG was just a stand-in for the Queen, i.e. no real powers and wears a funny hat at ceremonial events?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  17. This is NOT NEW. by upuv · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Qantas has had a form of spyware for years. Over 7 years ago I saw it's first version. It was a horrible crash prone mess. It was a flight search bar with other value add addons. And yes it reported to the mother ship.

    A lot of airlines did the same. So did package delivery companies.

    I work rather closely with large companies that are deploying or have deployed improved analytics tools to track your every click. Big brother exists. An issue is it's not just one big brother.

    Face book for example. Almost every single app is mining your account for information. Very use any of the facebook apps if you must use facebook. Only ever give the minimal amount of information. Remember you are the product.

    If you are dumb enough to ever install a "toolbar" then you get what you asked for. There is no such thing as a free value addon. They will all cost you dearly.

  18. Obvious solution by dalias · · Score: 2

    Browsers need to remove support for toolbars and other features that cater to malware extensions, like they should have done 10 years ago.

    1. Re:Obvious solution by Meski · · Score: 1

      For instance, corporate intraweb with heavy dependence on activeX.

  19. Jessie Ventura on Independents by CuteSteveJobs · · Score: 1

    We have to get beyond the Left vs Right myth. Nearly every country has two parties like this and both now answer to corporate lobbyists. Let's drop the left vs right moniker in debates and listen to the issues instead: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/jesse_ventura.html http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2012/06/13/jesse-ventura-explains-why-governments-are-like-gangs/

  20. yes, the one-eyed man may be the first to go by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    Great story by H. G. Wells: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Country_of_the_Blind
    "At the end of his descent, down a snow-slope in the mountain's shadow, he finds a valley, cut off from the rest of the world on all sides by steep precipices. Unbeknownst to Nunez, he has discovered the fabled Country of the Blind. ..."

    It does not go as he or the reader might expect. Spoilers at Wikipedia, but here it it is online:
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/11870

    As a possible example, people who would share publicly-funded information freely in violation of copyright are persecuted (Aaron Swartz)...

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
    1. Re:yes, the one-eyed man may be the first to go by kermidge · · Score: 1

      Beautiful catch, Paul. Thank you! I don't remember reading it. (Just read the Wiki article; yeah, I read it. Remember now being kinda pissed in that there were really no good endings that stayed in character. Yet some good food for thought. What chilled me most was the proposed solution to Nunez' "problem", perhaps because the thought of losing my sight scares the bejeesus out of me.)

      As an aside, while there may be some philosophical arguments against, I'd rather we sought to alleviate and prevent blindness rather than place restrictions on the sighted.

      Several thoughts occur. When we have the capability of escaping "the tyranny of the flesh" via android bods, how do we, and to what extent ought we, to preserve as best able the known range of perceptions of the various senses (separate from however we choose to augment those prior native senses) to preserve a simulacrum of what it meant to be Human with a body. And should we do so? Or will we decide to alter our working definition of what constitutes "human" by not even including a 'native' or 'historic' mode?

  21. What constitues human? by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    The late (sadly, unless he is on to better post-human things) Ian Banks wrote in passing in the Cture Novels about humans in non-human form.
    http://www.vavatch.co.uk/books/banks/cultnote.htm
    "One idea behind the Culture as it is depicted in the stories is that it has gone through cyclical stages during which there has been extensive human-machine interfacing, and other stages (sometimes coinciding with the human-machine eras) when extensive genetic alteration has been the norm. The era of the stories written so far - dating from about 1300 AD to 2100 AD - is one in which the people of the Culture have returned, probably temporarily, to something more 'classical' in terms of their relations with the machines and the potential of their own genes.
    The Culture recognises, expects and incorporates fashions - albeit long-term fashions - in such matters. It can look back to times when people lived much of their lives in what we would now call cyberspace, and to eras when people chose to alter themselves or their children through genetic manipulation, producing a variety of morphological sub-species. Remnants of the various waves of such civilisational fashions can be found scattered throughout the Culture, and virtually everyone in the Culture carries the results of genetic manipulation in every cell of their body; it is arguably the most reliable signifier of Culture status.
    Thanks to that genetic manipulation, the average Culture human will be born whole and healthy and of significantly (though not immensely) greater intelligence than their basic human genetic inheritance might imply. There are thousands of alterations to that human-basic inheritance - blister-free callusing and a clot-filter protecting the brain are two of the less important ones mentioned in the stories - but the major changes the standard Culture person would expect to be born with would include an optimized immune system and enhanced senses, freedom from inheritable diseases or defects, the ability to control their autonomic processes and nervous system (pain can, in effect, be switched off), and to survive and fully recover from wounds which would either kill or permanently mutilate without such genetic tinkering."

    Sci-fi has been exploring this for decades.

    Geordi La Forge's Visor in 1990s Star Trek is one answer. As is Data. As is Reginald Barclay's forays into becoming superhuman on the holodeck. As is Q.

    From the 1950s:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_Than_Human

    Or from Sturgeon also in the 1950s (The Skills of Xanadu, which presaged an motivated the internet and mobile computing in some ways):
    http://books.google.com/books?id=wpuJQrxHZXAC&pg=PA51&lpg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false

    From JD Bernal in the 1920s: http://vserver1.cscs.lsa.umich.edu/~crshalizi/Bernal/flesh/
    "Starting, as Mr. J. B. S. Haldane so convincingly predicts, in an ectogenetic factory, man will have anything from sixty to a hundred and twenty years of larval, unspecialized existence - surely enough to satisfy the advocates of a natural life. In this stage he need not be cursed by the age of science and mechanism, but can occupy his time (without the conscience of wasting it) in dancing, poetry and love-making, and perhaps incidentally take part in the reproductive activity. Then he will leave the body whose potentialities he should have sufficiently explored.
    The next stage might be compared to that of a chrysalis, a complicated and rather unpleasant process of transforming the already existing organs and grafting on all the new sensory and motor mechanisms. There would follow a period of re-education in which he would grow to understand the functioning of his new se

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  22. The pleasure trap & Supernormal Stimuli by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    Just wanted to connect the point on people deciding what senses or body shapes/capacities to have to what we were discussed a couple days ago on: "Do-It-Yourself Brain Stimulation Has Scientists Worried"
    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3862853&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=44012505

    Related themes:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernormal_stimulus
    http://www.drfuhrman.com/library/article16.aspx
    http://www.paulgraham.com/addiction.html
    http://xkcd.com/597/

    Here is a fable I wrote about thirty years ago about a knight who becomes whatever he wrote in a book -- sort of like many self-defined Transhumanists aspire to:
    "The Problems of Being Self Determining"
    http://www.pdfernhout.net/the-problems-of-being-self-determining.html

    I'm since thinking that the human mind/body/brain/spirit seems to act as if it has a bunch of layers, where there seem to be safeguards built-in to the lower layers (shaped by evolution?) which may limit the ease of radical changes which are sometimes (but not always) in practice self-destructive acts. Those lower layers may also be related to communications links with other humans, to maintain the functioning of the group (stuff like a sense of fairness, compassion, etc. as well as probably status issues too from another direction).

    Which connects to this story on simulated universes, math and infinite convergences:
    "I don't know, Timmy, being God is a big responsibility. Short story, Sam Hughes (2007)."
    http://qntm.org/responsibility

    I made artificial life simulations myself in the 1980s, and started thinking about the moral implications....

    James P. Hogan has some related books too, like Entoverse, and Realtime Interrupt.

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  23. Get the toolbar by Meski · · Score: 1

    Then fill up their searches with VirginAustralia.com reservations.