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US Hacked Chinese University Network
An anonymous reader writes "Hong Kong's South China Morning Post reports that Tsinghua University, widely regarded as the mainland's top education and research institute, was the target of extensive hacking by U.S. spies this year, according to information leaked by Edward Snowden. The information also showed that the attacks on Tsinghua University were intensive and concerted efforts. In one single day of January, at least 63 computers and servers in Tsinghua University have been hacked by the NSA. The university is home to one of the mainland's six major backbone networks, the China Education and Research Network from where internet data from millions of Chinese citizens could be mined. Universities in Hong Kong and the mainland were revealed as targets of NSA's cyber-snooping activities last week when Snowden claimed the Chinese University of Hong Kong had been hacked."
The U.S. government is reportedly hacking into Chinese mobile phone companies as well for access to text messages. In related news, the U.S. has asked Hong Kong to extradite Snowden, and the petition to pardon him has met that 100,000 signature threshold required for an official response from the administration.
http://slashdot.org/submission/2747589/us-pressuring-hong-kong-to-arrest-snowden-while-snowden-has-flown-to-moscow
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
got nothing to hide, then China has nothing to worry about.
BBC is reporting that Moscow may NOT be the final destination for Snowden
BBC is speculating that Snowden is heading to either Ecuador or Cuba
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Yeah, that's it. Because the NSA and US government has the moral right to hack everybody and lie, even to their own citizens. Hypocrisy up to 9000.
Snowden a traitor ??
What about the government of the United States which has violated the Constitutions of the United States ???
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
But only one nation rides around on a high horse openly accusing others of it all the time. And that nation just got caught doing the exact thing it accuses everyone else of doing, and doing it on the scale that many didn't even think possible.
You almost make it sound like US wars in Afghanistan and Iraq didn't make sense. They got attacked by guys from Saudi-Arabia, not afghans or iraqis.
Our own military brass has spoken publicly about how state sponsored hacking might constitute an act of war and could result in a Kenetic response. In that context the NSA has endangered our nation by potentially starting an unauthorized war with China. When will these dangerous criminals be controlled.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
The real question is - will the US Gov be prosecuted for their crimes ? At least these ones this guy Snowden made public. We can talk about thousands of other crimes against humanity and life later.
Nobody is talking about that.. why ? What the hell is wrong with you people ?
When did China become an enemy of the US? As far as I know it's a competitor, it is a steadily growing economic giant. Yes, but hardly an enemy. Unless, of course, we're back to 1972 when everyone not in the English speaking world that is not a CIA run dictator is an enemy. Frankly, the US is too small and becoming too irrelevant to safely classify the large chunk of humanity called China as an enemy.
Freedom fries soundbites aside.
1) We're not at war with China
2) The claim that China is hacking critical infrastructure that could kill people makes no sense. Critical infrastructure should NOT be on the net at all, let alone on a net connected to China. So NSA likely lying.
3) If America is hacking China, and hacking can kill people, then NSA hacking can kill Chinese people.
4) So either the 'kill' claim is false, or NSA has declared war on China.
5) How is hacking the Chinese SMS databases some sort of counter attack against Chinese hackers?
6) See point 1.
"Which is a disaster, because it reduce the odds of the criminal actions of the Bush/Obama government being challenged, let alone punished."
If the government was behind General Alexanders NSA actions, then he would have to lie to them in Congress. Obama has hired an anti-surveillance FBI head, which suggests he's been lied to aswell. So the chances of getting the lying toerags prosecuted is as high as it always is.
So you see no difference between a random internet poster and the most populous nation on earth, Communist China, which has nuclear weapons pointed at the United States, 3,000 front companies in the US conducting espionage, and which is actively encroaching upon the territory of its neighbors, some of which are US allies?
You see no way in which they might be approached differently?
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
They killed millions of their own people and get away with it, comparing to them NSA is just child's play. So NSA lied to congress, at least the US has a congress which can catch NSA lying, there's an oath which NSA is supposed to be following. There's no such thing in China, the party determines everything, and if you don't agree with the party, it's the labor camps for you.
against China, you couldn't even have this conversation on any Chinese network, that's why US government has the moral high ground against communist China.
Don't you find it disheartening at all that this is always questioned?
When it comes to how the nation treats its population you seldom see the U.S. compared to civilized nations.
If you use the worst nations in the world to justify what your government does then you will end up among the worst.
You can tell a lot of man by the people he compares himself to.
Blocking a conversation is obvious and the people know exactly where they stand...
Allowing the conversation to take place, while secretly monitoring it could be far worse, people could receive subtle comeback for expressing their views and have no idea why its happening.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
All the nations ride that high horse. We just don't get to see the Chinese/Russian/etc. propaganda about the evil West - only our propaganda about the evil East.
The real question is - will the US Gov be prosecuted for their crimes ? At least these ones this guy Snowden made public
Buddy, the 1970's is long gone
The United States of America is no longer the United States of America of yesteryears
Our journalists no longer have the professional zeal as their peers back in the 70's
Our congress is filled with scoundrels that are as bad as the scoundrels in the White House
And most importantly, our judiciary system can no longer be as unbiased as before --- no judge would dare to rule against the man in the White House, no matter who he or she turns out to be
And our court system is no longer unb
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
China, that is the nation which pledged a no fist strike policy under with absolutely no conditions back in 1964 an the US later adopted in 2010?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_first_use
How many nuclear weapons does the US have "pointed" at China? I suppose "US the good" so its OK to have a vast nuclear arsenal but "china the bad" so its not OK?
The US, isn't that the nation which bombed Japan not once but twice, when many thought they would have surrendered anyhow?
As I posted elsewhere, the US is pretty active when it comes to espionage going back to its founding:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-01/piracy-and-fraud-propelled-the-u-s-industrial-revolution.html
What do you call it when "tourists" travel to another nation explicitly to steal technology and import said technology when its against the law?
I see no reason we should fight a dangerous shadow war, while we continue to pump billions into there economy every year with free trade agreements. No I don't get that. Infact as hard as US manufacturing has been hit, China probably still needs us more than we need it.
We *could* produce everything we need. Prices would soar it would severely stress our economy but it would probably collapse China's if we simply cut off trade. If their behavior is really belligerent if they really are working against our interests than we should seize the moral high ground call it out in public and deal with it. Fighting where we provide the enemy with wealth and technology; has to be the stupidest foreign policy ever tried.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
To be fair, Afghanistan is really, really close to Pakistan, where the "bad guy" ended up being located. Also, Iraq is really, really close to Saudi Arabia, where the "bad guy" came from. They didn't invade Poland or Kenya - points for effort at least?
... whatever
Sure. Let's talk about Stasi and how they could only pull spying on much lesser scale. Surely that was also justified?
"This was the week that changed the world, as what we have said in that Communique is not nearly as important as what we will do in the years ahead to build a bridge across 16,000 miles and 22 years of hostilities which have divided us in the past. And what we have said today is that we shall build that bridge" I think that other corrupt president of the USA said that. Tricky Dick Nixon,
When did China become an enemy of the US?
Quite the opposite, Congress granted China "Most Favored Nation" trading status in 1997.
It's only the war mongers who call China an enemy. They like to speak of boogeymen who may come in the night, to scare little children-like citizens into behaving for their benefit.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
From petitions.whitehouse.gov: "In a few rare cases (such as specific procurement, law enforcement, or adjudicatory matters), the White House response might not address the facts of a particular matter to avoid exercising improper influence."
This allows Obama to simply say "We cannot comment on the Snowden petition, since he is subject to an ongoing legal enquiry, and we must avoid exercising improper influence."
Meanwhile, several members of government have already declared Snowden guilty of treason without trial - no improper exercise of influence there, right?
Anyone with thoughts about how the petition might have been worded to avoid this loophole?
Spying on foreign nations is the NSA's business. If you don't like that, then it is something to take up with your representitive, but I would have to ask why all of a sudden you have a problem with it, since that has ALWAYS been its business. The NSA is the US's signals intelligence agency. It's reason to be is to spy on the electronic communications of foreign powers.
Now, you can argue the US shouldn't spy at all if you like, but you do have to realise that would put the US at basically the only major nation that didn't. More or less all nations have intelligence agencies. The UK has the SIS (and the Security Service to an extent), France has the DGSE, Canada has the CSIS, Switzerland has the NDB, Finland has the SUPO, China has the MSS, Russia has the SVR (and realistically the FSB, FSO and GRU as well). Nations spy on each other. They have for a long, LONG time.
The flap with the NSA is that they have been spying on American citizens. That is something they are not supposed to do. While some countries, like China, have a unified intelligence apparatus (the MSS is their spy agency, secret police, all that jazz), the US purposely has divided agencies. The NSA, CIA, etc are not supposed to collect intelligence on Americans. That is only supposed to be done by law enforcement, and then only in compliance with court orders.
That the NSA would spy on other nations is not only unsurprising, it is the reason they exist.
In terms of China being an enemy, well you can't really think in those terms. Nations don't have friends and enemies so much as they have interests. As such other nations can align or not align with those interests to different degrees. If you mean an enemy as a nation they are at war with then no, but of course they US hasn't officially gone to war in a rather long time. However China is certainly a nation the US would have many reasons to watch. They are quite authoritarian, the military is heavily mixed up in their economy (I'm talking direct ownership of things), they have imperialistic ambitions and they have a lot of weapons. Thus it should not be surprising if the US has interest in watching them.
Also if you think the US is irrelevant, you need to wake up and have a look at world affairs. The US is an extremely influential country in a tremendous amount of ways. It is the only military superpower at the moment, it controls the world's reserve currency, it has the largest economy in the world, it exports culture (in the form of books, TV movies, video games, that kind of thing) like no other in history and so on. You might wish the US was not relevant, but it is, very much so.
Also it isn't small. Buy a globe. Or use a search engine. The US is the 4th largest country in the world by land area, and 3rd largest by population. If that is "too small" by your metric, then I don't want to know what you rank most countries (which are, by definition, much smaller).
So do you have any policy recommendations for handing the 3,000 front companies that China has in the US for espionage, or their continuing efforts at hacking to both steal valuable data and establish control of systems for future use?
So far you seem to be advocating that the US simply be a target. That tends to not work out well in the long run.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
It's the purpose of the NSA to spy on other nations. The US is neither hiding it nor apologizing for that.
Wrong, and also wrong. That's the purpose of the CIA. The NSA's job is securing our nation's communications, not unsecuring those of other nations.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Enemy? China is your biggest economic partner.
Give it a rest. The Soviet Union asked the US if they (the Soviet Union) could attack China with nuclear weapons in the 1960s to take away China's nuclear weapons and prevent them from getting more. Guess what the US said?
If you think the Japanese were ready to simply surrender, you have been getting bad history.
Let me know when China stops trying to take territory from Japan, the Philippines, India, Vietnam, and other neighbors, and then it will be easier to discuss security arrangements.
What do you call it when "tourists" travel to another nation explicitly to steal technology and import said technology when its against the law?
Let me think....
Chinese Espionage: The Risks Within U.S. Companies
Chinese Espionage Campaign Targets U.S. Space Technology
China’s Spies Are Catching Up
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Because they can't do anything about you. The reason your own government is more of a concern than foreign governments is they have power over you whereas foreign governments do not. Now yes, technically foreign governments can go after someone, like North Korean kidnappings or the US drone program, however by and large they have little control over citizens of other nations.
In terms of looking at civilians, you think that is new? Most people in a country are civilians, as in not in the military. That doesn't mean they aren't involved in things a nation might take interest in. A simple example would be spies. You think they are military officers? No, they are regular civilians, or often diplomats.
Also in some countries, like China, the line is considerably less clear. The PLA outright owns many industries, and has their hands in many others, so even were you to take the line that spying is only for military things, well that would be rather unclear there.
That aside, I've seen little enough protesting period, and none that seems to be people mad about civilian spying. It is DOMESTIC spying that seems to bother them. They are mad that the NSA is (allegedly) spying on Americans which they are not supposed to do according to the law. I haven't seen any protests complaining about foreign spy agencies doing it, and they do it, make no mistake.
Factually false. Neither Russia nor China practice such propaganda on scale anywhere near that which we get in US/UK sourced media.
Source: I'm fluent in russian and follow on some of their more reputable news agencies alongside outlets like al jazeera to offset the bias from following BBC, france24, euronews and reuters. While everyone tends to blame others for wrongdoing, the scale and depth of blame laid on others is massively greater in Western media. I would describe it as the "need to promote the illusion that we have a best country, government, political and economical system them anyone else". China, Russia et al do not have a need to promote this as their citizens are under no such illusion.
It makes a nice change.
In a closed room full of children, what steps would one fat kid need to take to ensure that he eats as much as all the others combined. Does this seem like a reasonable precursor to harmony within the room?
Requiem for the American Dream
Really? The NSA has always been a spy agency. Even in the 60's they were decrypting communications of foreign governments. Wikipedia's opening paragraph on the NSA mentions spying before security as well. Where did you get the idea that they aren't a spy agency?
Think globally but act within local variable scope.
Is it hacking when you're just stealing your own ideas back?
Why would I feel better about China spying on me than I would about my own government spying on me?
I'm not American, and my outsider observation of American logic is this:
1. No nation should spy on their own civilians.
2. Other nations should never spy on Americans.
3. USA can spy on civilians of other nations.
i.e. as long as the Great American People are shielded from harm (or so they think), nobody really cares what the USA government does abroad.
So yes, nobody cares about what the USA government does to "them" if they're not Americans...
Replace "spy" by things like "illegal arrest", "unfair trial", "torture", whatever, and it still holds.
I didn't say it was logical or hypocrisy free. I'm actually surprised that apparently you're not aware of this.
Don't quote me on this.
Since the founding of Communist China, the general approach to dissent has tended to involve either the threat or use of jail cells or guns.
So far the communist government has managed to kill 70,000,000 of its citizens.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
In April of 1945 the leaders of imperial Japan had no illusions that they were losing the war. They began to prepare for the allied invasion of the Japanese home islands. Naotake Sato, foreign minister went to Moscow to negotiate the Soviet Union's continued neutrality in the war. In July of 1945 Emperor Hirohito sent Prime Minister Prince Konoe to Moscow to sue for peace with the Allies. It was hoped that Stalin and the Soviet Union would negotiate on behalf of Japan with the US and Britain, Konoe had carte blanc to end the war before Japan suffered even more. As I said, by this point the Japanese Emperor had no illusions of victory and unlike Hitler, was willing to do something to change this.
Japan was willing to surrender, just not an unconditional surrender that the US and Britain wanted. Now the mistake the Japanese made was sending their envoy through the Soviet union, who did not want peace between the western allies and Japan. Stalin was convinced that the invasion of the Japanese home islands would weaken the US and Britain to the same state as the Soviet Union. At the point Stalin had no idea that the US had working nuclear weapons, so an invasion was the only possible scenario as long as they did not negotiate with the Japanese. As such, Stalin blocked all negotiations between the Japanese and the western allies.
If you think the Japanese weren't willing to surrender, you have been getting bad history.
Now the western allies had no idea at the time Japan was trying to surrender. So I dont second guess the bomb. It was not until years afterwards did the western allies learn the truth of what transpired between Imperial Japan and the Soviet Union and by then they were already scrotum deep in the cold war.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.