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US Hacked Chinese University Network
An anonymous reader writes "Hong Kong's South China Morning Post reports that Tsinghua University, widely regarded as the mainland's top education and research institute, was the target of extensive hacking by U.S. spies this year, according to information leaked by Edward Snowden. The information also showed that the attacks on Tsinghua University were intensive and concerted efforts. In one single day of January, at least 63 computers and servers in Tsinghua University have been hacked by the NSA. The university is home to one of the mainland's six major backbone networks, the China Education and Research Network from where internet data from millions of Chinese citizens could be mined. Universities in Hong Kong and the mainland were revealed as targets of NSA's cyber-snooping activities last week when Snowden claimed the Chinese University of Hong Kong had been hacked."
The U.S. government is reportedly hacking into Chinese mobile phone companies as well for access to text messages. In related news, the U.S. has asked Hong Kong to extradite Snowden, and the petition to pardon him has met that 100,000 signature threshold required for an official response from the administration.
http://slashdot.org/submission/2747589/us-pressuring-hong-kong-to-arrest-snowden-while-snowden-has-flown-to-moscow
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Everybody is hacking everyone else, enemies, neutrals, friends allies.
By getting rid of spy agencies, we'd probably be able to do away with more than 99% af all cyber crime.
got nothing to hide, then China has nothing to worry about.
You can argue that exposing NSA's domestic spying operation is for the good of US people, but exposing hacking of a Chinese university serves no US interests whatsoever, it only gives China the moral high ground to continue its cyber attack against the US. If this is not planned by the central committee of the communist party, I don't know what is.
BBC is reporting that Moscow may NOT be the final destination for Snowden
BBC is speculating that Snowden is heading to either Ecuador or Cuba
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Snowden is reportedly heading for Moscow, as we speak
http://slashdot.org/submission/2747589/us-pressuring-hong-kong-to-arrest-snowden-while-snowden-has-flown-to-moscow
Are you going to change your tune now, buddy ?
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
snark. humour. of course, it's ridiculous. But I guess it is far harder to detect humour aimed at US exceptionalism when it is so engrained.
Yeah, that's it. Because the NSA and US government has the moral right to hack everybody and lie, even to their own citizens. Hypocrisy up to 9000.
He can run, but he cannot hide. South America is American's backyard. There will be no safe harbor there. Any country that shelters Snowden in SA will feel the full diplomatic weight of the great Empire breathing down their neck.
The whole cyber war agenda makes no sense. You get hacked from a computer in Romania, so you counter-attack Romania? When its just a Russian or Chinese script kiddie that's hacked a Romanian computer? It made far more sense to move critical systems off the internet so they couldn't be hacked! But the agenda pushed was 'cyber-war' with 'cyber-counter-attacks', but 'attack' makes no sense if you don't know how the underlying attacker is and the attack doesn't fix the problem in the first place!
Now the 'cyber-war' agenda makes perfect sense. The cyber war agenda is just cover for cyber-attacks. The cyber attacks are not aimed at hackers, they're aimed at databases. It's all about seizing data.
Snowden a traitor ??
What about the government of the United States which has violated the Constitutions of the United States ???
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Remember, truth is entirely irrelevant. What is important is to not let anyone know you are a hypocrite!
You can argue that exposing NSA's domestic spying operation is for the good of US people, but exposing hacking of a Chinese university serves no US interests whatsoever, it only gives China the moral high ground to continue its cyber attack against the US. If this is not planned by the central committee of the communist party, I don't know what is.
Nice... It's Snowden fault that NSA hacked the Chinese university, isn't it?
Or... having NSA hacking the Chinese is a patriotic gesture now?
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
against China, you couldn't even have this conversation on any Chinese network, that's why US government has the moral high ground against communist China.
a Chinese propaganda officer, so called "50 cents".
I'm quite sure most people who've ever heard of him consider him being a true american hero.
Especially Edward Snowden is a hero to many young Americans, poll suggests. Edward Snowden performed a public service in leaking information about NSA programs, say 60 percent of Americans age 18 to 29, according to a poll. Tea partyers and liberals also approve.
Our own military brass has spoken publicly about how state sponsored hacking might constitute an act of war and could result in a Kenetic response. In that context the NSA has endangered our nation by potentially starting an unauthorized war with China. When will these dangerous criminals be controlled.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
The real question is - will the US Gov be prosecuted for their crimes ? At least these ones this guy Snowden made public. We can talk about thousands of other crimes against humanity and life later.
Nobody is talking about that.. why ? What the hell is wrong with you people ?
When did China become an enemy of the US? As far as I know it's a competitor, it is a steadily growing economic giant. Yes, but hardly an enemy. Unless, of course, we're back to 1972 when everyone not in the English speaking world that is not a CIA run dictator is an enemy. Frankly, the US is too small and becoming too irrelevant to safely classify the large chunk of humanity called China as an enemy.
Freedom fries soundbites aside.
1) We're not at war with China
2) The claim that China is hacking critical infrastructure that could kill people makes no sense. Critical infrastructure should NOT be on the net at all, let alone on a net connected to China. So NSA likely lying.
3) If America is hacking China, and hacking can kill people, then NSA hacking can kill Chinese people.
4) So either the 'kill' claim is false, or NSA has declared war on China.
5) How is hacking the Chinese SMS databases some sort of counter attack against Chinese hackers?
6) See point 1.
"Which is a disaster, because it reduce the odds of the criminal actions of the Bush/Obama government being challenged, let alone punished."
If the government was behind General Alexanders NSA actions, then he would have to lie to them in Congress. Obama has hired an anti-surveillance FBI head, which suggests he's been lied to aswell. So the chances of getting the lying toerags prosecuted is as high as it always is.
So you see no difference between a random internet poster and the most populous nation on earth, Communist China, which has nuclear weapons pointed at the United States, 3,000 front companies in the US conducting espionage, and which is actively encroaching upon the territory of its neighbors, some of which are US allies?
You see no way in which they might be approached differently?
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
They killed millions of their own people and get away with it, comparing to them NSA is just child's play. So NSA lied to congress, at least the US has a congress which can catch NSA lying, there's an oath which NSA is supposed to be following. There's no such thing in China, the party determines everything, and if you don't agree with the party, it's the labor camps for you.
so who are you in war with?
your own citizens are now the enemy?
anyhow, it's illegal for the president to wage a secret war as well. because decision to go to war is not just up to him. that's why you have abstract "wars" against abstract things like "drugs" and "evil people" - and then you have "military interventions" when you're waging an actual war.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
It competes by illegally copying other's designs, and keep the wages of their worker really low, the only thing growing in China is their military and pockets of top party leaders.
The real question is - will the US Gov be prosecuted for their crimes ? At least these ones this guy Snowden made public
Buddy, the 1970's is long gone
The United States of America is no longer the United States of America of yesteryears
Our journalists no longer have the professional zeal as their peers back in the 70's
Our congress is filled with scoundrels that are as bad as the scoundrels in the White House
And most importantly, our judiciary system can no longer be as unbiased as before --- no judge would dare to rule against the man in the White House, no matter who he or she turns out to be
And our court system is no longer unb
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
China, that is the nation which pledged a no fist strike policy under with absolutely no conditions back in 1964 an the US later adopted in 2010?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_first_use
How many nuclear weapons does the US have "pointed" at China? I suppose "US the good" so its OK to have a vast nuclear arsenal but "china the bad" so its not OK?
The US, isn't that the nation which bombed Japan not once but twice, when many thought they would have surrendered anyhow?
As I posted elsewhere, the US is pretty active when it comes to espionage going back to its founding:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-01/piracy-and-fraud-propelled-the-u-s-industrial-revolution.html
What do you call it when "tourists" travel to another nation explicitly to steal technology and import said technology when its against the law?
I see no reason we should fight a dangerous shadow war, while we continue to pump billions into there economy every year with free trade agreements. No I don't get that. Infact as hard as US manufacturing has been hit, China probably still needs us more than we need it.
We *could* produce everything we need. Prices would soar it would severely stress our economy but it would probably collapse China's if we simply cut off trade. If their behavior is really belligerent if they really are working against our interests than we should seize the moral high ground call it out in public and deal with it. Fighting where we provide the enemy with wealth and technology; has to be the stupidest foreign policy ever tried.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Sure. Let's talk about Stasi and how they could only pull spying on much lesser scale. Surely that was also justified?
Oh, you mean NOW. How about a Chinese general advocating a nuclear first strike policy against the United States in 2005? This is not a friendly nation. This is an expansionist, dare I say, imperialist, nation, that expects to go to (nuclear, see above) war over Taiwan, disputes territorial claims (violently) with almost all of its neighbors, including the ridiculously large south china sea "exclusive economic zone", using cheap currency to buy influence and soft-power through-out oil-rich Africa, supporting violet Maoist rebel movements in Asia, basically, acting like post-war US and doing everything the US was so heatedly condemned for.
So, what you're saying is, they are a dangerous enemy. Okay.
Wars (and threats) only exist as long as there's enough people who believe in enemies. Sometimes it only takes a few to install the images in the minds of millions.
When the facades come down it's obvious that everybody does everything, and the useful illusions are no longer valid as a control mechanism. It's therefore paramount to control the information, and the ultimate construction to achieve that is basically a totalitarian state.
To enable the p2p control and loyality to the leader and the state measures have already been taken - Insider Threat Program for example.
The changes are slowly creeping in. The problem is that an individual is impossible to control in the end, so the measures are also tightened to infinity.
"This was the week that changed the world, as what we have said in that Communique is not nearly as important as what we will do in the years ahead to build a bridge across 16,000 miles and 22 years of hostilities which have divided us in the past. And what we have said today is that we shall build that bridge" I think that other corrupt president of the USA said that. Tricky Dick Nixon,
I still hear people tell me English is the most widely spoken language. Anyone feel free to direct me to source stating so. Anyone else feel free to point to source siting Chinese. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers
Memory is deceptive because it is colored by today's events. - Albert Einstein
Ok, why is this comment sarcastic and contradicts the expressed meaning with an underlying meaning
For those that need explanation:
1.) he is a saint and needs to be protected, because he reveals efforts against "his own" countrymen
2.) then he is a traitor because he reveals efforts against "other countries" involved
3.) the turning part: the current and former ruler of the country to be criminals that should be prosecuted
4.) the irony one of those supposed criminal rulers is prosecuting the saint-traitor-disaster (a criminal prosecutes a criminal)
When did China become an enemy of the US?
Quite the opposite, Congress granted China "Most Favored Nation" trading status in 1997.
It's only the war mongers who call China an enemy. They like to speak of boogeymen who may come in the night, to scare little children-like citizens into behaving for their benefit.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
From petitions.whitehouse.gov: "In a few rare cases (such as specific procurement, law enforcement, or adjudicatory matters), the White House response might not address the facts of a particular matter to avoid exercising improper influence."
This allows Obama to simply say "We cannot comment on the Snowden petition, since he is subject to an ongoing legal enquiry, and we must avoid exercising improper influence."
Meanwhile, several members of government have already declared Snowden guilty of treason without trial - no improper exercise of influence there, right?
Anyone with thoughts about how the petition might have been worded to avoid this loophole?
exposing hacking of a Chinese university serves no US interests whatsoever
I don't agree I think it serves this interest of every citizen, who wants their vote to count, who expects to have representation in our representative democracy. During the cold war, if you had asked a military commander or the President, "Do we conduct espionage and or spying operations against the Soviet Union" they wouldn't have gone into detail but they would have answered that we do.
We were able to have a sane public debate about our policy position toward the USSR.
What have today is all this secret crap. If prior to last week you'd ask "Do we conduct espionage and or spying operations against the People's Republic of China", the nearest thing to honesty you would have gotten is "I can't answer that' but most likely you'd get some propaganda about how they are a valued trade partner. This is not how a free society is supposed to work, you can't have franchise if you don't know what your representatives actually do.
Seriously if you look at the situation with any objectivity at all there is no way the NSA is on the side of "truth justice and the American way" here. Supporting what they have been doing is nothing more than a response to fear, which is sad in a place that is supposed to be the "land of the free and the home of the brave."
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Spying on foreign nations is the NSA's business. If you don't like that, then it is something to take up with your representitive, but I would have to ask why all of a sudden you have a problem with it, since that has ALWAYS been its business. The NSA is the US's signals intelligence agency. It's reason to be is to spy on the electronic communications of foreign powers.
Now, you can argue the US shouldn't spy at all if you like, but you do have to realise that would put the US at basically the only major nation that didn't. More or less all nations have intelligence agencies. The UK has the SIS (and the Security Service to an extent), France has the DGSE, Canada has the CSIS, Switzerland has the NDB, Finland has the SUPO, China has the MSS, Russia has the SVR (and realistically the FSB, FSO and GRU as well). Nations spy on each other. They have for a long, LONG time.
The flap with the NSA is that they have been spying on American citizens. That is something they are not supposed to do. While some countries, like China, have a unified intelligence apparatus (the MSS is their spy agency, secret police, all that jazz), the US purposely has divided agencies. The NSA, CIA, etc are not supposed to collect intelligence on Americans. That is only supposed to be done by law enforcement, and then only in compliance with court orders.
That the NSA would spy on other nations is not only unsurprising, it is the reason they exist.
In terms of China being an enemy, well you can't really think in those terms. Nations don't have friends and enemies so much as they have interests. As such other nations can align or not align with those interests to different degrees. If you mean an enemy as a nation they are at war with then no, but of course they US hasn't officially gone to war in a rather long time. However China is certainly a nation the US would have many reasons to watch. They are quite authoritarian, the military is heavily mixed up in their economy (I'm talking direct ownership of things), they have imperialistic ambitions and they have a lot of weapons. Thus it should not be surprising if the US has interest in watching them.
Also if you think the US is irrelevant, you need to wake up and have a look at world affairs. The US is an extremely influential country in a tremendous amount of ways. It is the only military superpower at the moment, it controls the world's reserve currency, it has the largest economy in the world, it exports culture (in the form of books, TV movies, video games, that kind of thing) like no other in history and so on. You might wish the US was not relevant, but it is, very much so.
Also it isn't small. Buy a globe. Or use a search engine. The US is the 4th largest country in the world by land area, and 3rd largest by population. If that is "too small" by your metric, then I don't want to know what you rank most countries (which are, by definition, much smaller).
So do you have any policy recommendations for handing the 3,000 front companies that China has in the US for espionage, or their continuing efforts at hacking to both steal valuable data and establish control of systems for future use?
So far you seem to be advocating that the US simply be a target. That tends to not work out well in the long run.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Oh yeah, cyber attack = attack = retaliation with force is justified.
So, when will the rest of the world accept America's declaration of war and defend itself?
Snowden's crime is sharing information with everyone.
Snowden has been referred to by such luminaries as Dianne Feinstein, who can't keep her finger off the trigger of a rifle in court, as a traitor for doing this.
Everyone is the enemy of the US government. Some of you don't know it yet. Some of you may even think that it's your friend because you work for it, or pay your taxes on time. But they have let us know otherwise. Don't ignore it.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
EU? But we're not talking about US hacking EU here, we're talking about US hacking China, and why Mr. Snowden reveals this. Anyway I'm not trying to justify PRISM, it is you who is trying to justify Mr. Snowden's actions.
I still hear people tell me English is the most widely spoken language. Anyone feel free to direct me to source stating so.
You could try Wikipedia, specifically this page: http://http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speaker. It gives three estimates, and in one of them English is in the lead.
expression? Wait...
Do you even see how ridiculous your argument is? Just because you have something against NSA and US government doesn't give you the right to trivialize the pain Chinese people suffered under the communist dictatorship.
So in your opinion many Americans are outraged at the NSA only because the NSA is controlled by their government but really don't mind being spied on by GCHQ, the SVR, the BND, ...
I think the current protests are mostly aimed at spying on civilian targets in general (i.e. the entire field of undirected signal collection), regardless of the nationality of the one doing the spying or the one being spied upon. Why would I feel better about China spying on me than I would about my own government spying on me?.
Enemy? China is your biggest economic partner.
Oops, URL was messed up. Try this instead:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers
Morals and ethics are no exception. Also note I'm not defending NSA's PRISM program, I'm questioning Snowden's motive of revealing US hacking Chinese university, these two are totally unrelated.
When did China become an enemy of the US? As far as I know it's a competitor, ....
Competitor? No, they are more like a partner: they supply very cheap labor to American companies.
Japan and Germany and the rest of the EU are competitors. They provide their own products, hire their people (at a higher wage than US) and also off-shore to China and other third world countries, and price their goods the same or higher than US companies - and kick American companies asses in a few markets.
China is not a competitor - they are a supplier - sucking the life out of us while stealing IP. Same goes for India - another supplier of cheap white collar labor.
I'm not saying exposing PRISM makes Snowden a Chinese spy, I'm saying exposing the US hacking of Chinese university makes him a Chinese spy. If you have argument for or against PRISM you can argument with someone else, I'm not talking about PRISM here.
One, your link doesn't work? Two Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers
English at top of two charts? Nope. Chinese on both. But thanks for another link that shows my point.
Memory is deceptive because it is colored by today's events. - Albert Einstein
a free country, typical Chinese propaganda trick. The very fact that this software is: a) revealed by a US Senate committee; b) its existence published by a news paper; c) its developer and customers answered questions and criticism proves US is much better than your communist dictatorship. Just because you control all your newspapers doesn't mean we couldn't find your dirty secrets, there's plenty of Weibo gets out before being deleted by censors, you can't fool your people forever.
From The Link; emphasis mine:
These are lists of languages by the number of first and second language speakers. However, particularly because of large uncertainties in estimating the number of secondary speakers, all such lists should be used with caution. In particular, the lists below should be seen as tentative.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=top+language+spoken+2012&qs=n&form=QBLH&pq=top+language+spoken+2012&sc=1-24&sp=-1&sk=
give you a random list of who knows who sites. One had Spanish as second above English below Chinese, but I am not saying I trust those random sources. I guess the argument is mute at this point than. The most official data is 3 years old.
Memory is deceptive because it is colored by today's events. - Albert Einstein
http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/guide/languages.shtml I trust BBC more than those last random ones. Chinese again. But again most likely mute point at this point.
Memory is deceptive because it is colored by today's events. - Albert Einstein
A single generals opinions does *not* make a countries policy, i hope so at least, otherwise i would be pretty worried about the things said in the US electoral campaigns.
Taiwan is an interesting issue. The obvious solution to Taiwan is: Taiwan and Chine *need* to be reunited. The division was the result of a political civil war. I hope that some day they just join in the same way east and west Germany joined at some point. If the US would feel responsible for the region they should push for negotiations with the ultimate goal of joining these two countries in the next 20-40 years.
As far as i can see, China has not been expansionist since a long time. A look at the map reveals that China has surprisingly small territorial conflicts with other countries - and these are fueled mainly by the fact that some of these countries are under US protection. Or does anybody believe tha Japan would insist in owning some islands if they would have to pay for their own security?
Give it a rest. The Soviet Union asked the US if they (the Soviet Union) could attack China with nuclear weapons in the 1960s to take away China's nuclear weapons and prevent them from getting more. Guess what the US said?
If you think the Japanese were ready to simply surrender, you have been getting bad history.
Let me know when China stops trying to take territory from Japan, the Philippines, India, Vietnam, and other neighbors, and then it will be easier to discuss security arrangements.
What do you call it when "tourists" travel to another nation explicitly to steal technology and import said technology when its against the law?
Let me think....
Chinese Espionage: The Risks Within U.S. Companies
Chinese Espionage Campaign Targets U.S. Space Technology
China’s Spies Are Catching Up
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Let's see... five-digit user ID, excellent karma... The very image of a 50 cent army member.
Russia's Interfax news agency is reporting a source at Aeroflot airline says there is a ticket in Snowden's name for a flight from Moscow to Cuba.
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
have to attack a school now
Whoah.
My BS and ignorance detector just hit 11.
Wow.
Because they can't do anything about you. The reason your own government is more of a concern than foreign governments is they have power over you whereas foreign governments do not. Now yes, technically foreign governments can go after someone, like North Korean kidnappings or the US drone program, however by and large they have little control over citizens of other nations.
In terms of looking at civilians, you think that is new? Most people in a country are civilians, as in not in the military. That doesn't mean they aren't involved in things a nation might take interest in. A simple example would be spies. You think they are military officers? No, they are regular civilians, or often diplomats.
Also in some countries, like China, the line is considerably less clear. The PLA outright owns many industries, and has their hands in many others, so even were you to take the line that spying is only for military things, well that would be rather unclear there.
That aside, I've seen little enough protesting period, and none that seems to be people mad about civilian spying. It is DOMESTIC spying that seems to bother them. They are mad that the NSA is (allegedly) spying on Americans which they are not supposed to do according to the law. I haven't seen any protests complaining about foreign spy agencies doing it, and they do it, make no mistake.
Just another proof that Chinese propaganda officers is rampant on this site.
since it doesn't help his case against PRISM, it hurts US interests and has no benefit for the US people, so the only conclusion I can draw is he is working for the Chinese side.
As for your question, does it even need an answer? In WWII, Japan bombed US, which is bad not only for US but for the free world; then the US bombed Japan which is very good not only for the US but also for all the people suffering under Japanese occupation. So yeah, an action can be good or bad depending on the circumstances.
Because they have nuclear capability that can reach the US, is taking a lot of jobs from the US workers and held tons of US debt, they are also polluting the air and water like crazy, all of these can affect you. Also we're not talking about any NSA claims here, we're talking about Snowden's claim and what this particular claim says about him.
Interestingly most of your post has nothing to do with what I said or the article itself, you're just trying to blacken the US as much as possible, good try
"independent nation are able to run it how they see fit" is the same logic the communist party used to fend off human right criticisms. By this logic, it is ok for Nazi to use concentration camps or for Japanese to murder entire cities, I sure hope this is not what you meant.
Nice try...
Most likely he defected due to ideological reasons, like some on this site.
Not even their own citizens believe it, so what Snowden says carry a lot of weight. PRISM's problem is domestic spying, I don't think anyone object spying on foreign nations, especially a nation like China.
A single generals opinions does *not* make a countries policy, i hope so at least, otherwise i would be pretty worried about the things said in the US electoral campaigns.
A valid point, and one I considered when making my post. I would submit that it might be indicative of the general culture over there. However, the general in question is the dean of the National Defense University. I'm pretty sure his opinions have a not-inconsequential effect on the officers and future generals coming out of there. And by not-inconsequential, I mean defining.
A look at the map reveals that China has surprisingly small territorial conflicts with other countries - and these are fueled mainly by the fact that some of these countries are under US protection. Or does anybody believe tha Japan would insist in owning some islands if they would have to pay for their own security?
This statement is not even remotely accurate. The China-Japan issues can easily be characterized as a China-US issue, but are you going to claim the same for China-Vietnam? China-India? Both tried to stand up to China in the last 12 months and both had to back down. This is what Xinhua calls "improved relations". What was it called when the US was waving its big stick around in Central America? Imperialism? Bullying?
is unauthorized war? I see NSA is protecting US interests by hacking into Chinese government's networks, you do realize Tsinghua University is owned by the Chinese government do you?
Hacking the Chinese government is a good thing for both US and Chinese citizens.
BS, the China that exists today is little more than 100 years old. There may be cultural elements that go back before the communist take over but as far as how the country is run and what is capable of nope.
China (The modern nation) is younger than the US.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
I think that we would be stronger without secrets. If everything was held to the light of day and we had to take all of our actions based on a common knowledge of the facts (which the "enemy" knows as well) then our actions would ultimately result in real solutions. You can't expect simpletons and politicians to get this though.
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
Do we have any real confirmation that he leaked such information? Could it be that our government is releasing information that would make it seem as though Snowden is a traitor to turn public opinion? Just asking for the sake of consideration--I have to consider such scenarios. Then again I have no proof the world is not being run by aliens.
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
Trading partners turn into enemies when the banking cartel decides they are enemies and the press starts beating the war drum. Is there really any other way for someone to become an "enemy?" I say China is pretty damn close were it not for the profit and other factors upholding them as "favored."
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
Agreed, I can't see them conceding on anything. They would lose face and that would be enough to start a major war.
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
It makes a nice change.
In a closed room full of children, what steps would one fat kid need to take to ensure that he eats as much as all the others combined. Does this seem like a reasonable precursor to harmony within the room?
Requiem for the American Dream
"If you call China a rival already, why do you complain when China hacks you?"
And if you call China a rival already, why are you keep borrowing money from them? You are asking your a$$ to be phucked.
New Economic Perspectives
Is it hacking when you're just stealing your own ideas back?
The perception of the west that anything in china is controlled centrally and that the word of an director of a university is beamed directly into the heads of the students is a dangerous and arrogant misconception of the western media - the chinese students are *not* stupid robots. There are a multitude of reasons why he could have said that, ranging from personally profiling himself as a hardliner to his own kind (military) via pure academic (theoretical) thoughts misinterpreted to (and i think this is the case) a well-orchestrated weakening of the position of the opponents in a negotiations (like: look we could also send sombody like this). And the official (not: as of "a univerity director tells" but as of "the government says repeatedly over 20 years") is a non-first strike policy and a policy never to attack a country which does not posess nulcear weapons using these.
http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/eng/wjb/zzjg/jks/cjjk/2622/t93539.htm
The sino-indian conflict has other issue than China being expansionist. The main issue is (like many things regarding India) that the British Empire found it necessary to establish the balance of power everywhere and drew line on maps these were useful to them. China has no interest in anything but having control over the important connection from rest of china to Tibet.
I would think that India is seen as inconsistent and unreliable by the Chinese government - and therefore ther may be the impression that India could try something stupid (even if its probably not on the list of things of concern to india right now).
About the conflict with vietnam i have no opinion, due to a lack of knowledge.
Regardless of what the NSA's mission and purpose are they allowed to violate US law in order to accomplish it? And if they are allowed to violate US laws in the course of their job which laws if any are sacrosanct?
If a US citizen travels to another countries jurisdiction and does something which would not be legal for them to do in the US they can still be held accountable in our courts. So where is the NSA's authorization to violate our own laws and which laws specifically?
Let's clarify; I don't have a problem with the NSA doing its job as an intelligence agency. I DO have a problem with Snowden removing the 'deniability' that allows everyone to pretend it isn't happening, and so cause damage to foreign relationships. He was totally right to challenge the NSA's spying on Americans, but to reveal his country's secret intelligence activities was far more reprehensible AND DAMAGES HIS CREDIBILITY OVER HIS REAL WHISTLEBLOWING. Those who weren't sure whether to attack the NSA for its criminality, or defend it for its alleged good works are more likely now to line up to defend it. At the margins this matters...
Why do people waste time signing those White House petitions? They always give some bullshit answer as to why they are opposed to the will of the people, it changes nothing.
but exposing hacking of a Chinese university serves no US interests whatsoever, it only gives China the moral high ground to continue its cyber attack against the US. If this is not planned by the central committee of the communist party, I don't know what is.
I'd say it does. Its like the diplomatic cable leaks, you can't be humiliated if you didn't do anything humiliating. We violated various treaties by hacking into the networks of a sovereign state. This isn't "good behavior". We also really can't bitch about China doing it to us anymore, since it is a game we like to play too. This is our government misbehaving, and it deserves to have its know rubbed in it a bit.
I'm all for everything coming out, at this point. National Security be damned. We need a clean slate, and we need heads; just to restore any modicum of faith in our masters (which is how they must see themselves). We, the people (ostensibly the real "masters"), need to see the whole mess exposed, so we can make a fair judgement and reckoning of ourselves.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
So, all those attempts to break into our networks were really the fault of the Americans, and not the Chinese?
If opportunity came disguised as temptation, one knock would be enough.
3^2 * 67^1 * 977^1
Why would I feel better about China spying on me than I would about my own government spying on me?
I'm not American, and my outsider observation of American logic is this:
1. No nation should spy on their own civilians.
2. Other nations should never spy on Americans.
3. USA can spy on civilians of other nations.
i.e. as long as the Great American People are shielded from harm (or so they think), nobody really cares what the USA government does abroad.
So yes, nobody cares about what the USA government does to "them" if they're not Americans...
Replace "spy" by things like "illegal arrest", "unfair trial", "torture", whatever, and it still holds.
I didn't say it was logical or hypocrisy free. I'm actually surprised that apparently you're not aware of this.
Don't quote me on this.
Russia's Interfax news agency is reporting a source at Aeroflot airline says there is a ticket in Snowden's name for a flight from Moscow to Cuba.
He's probably going to take some time off, maybe do a little fishing in Guantanamo Bay.
Since the founding of Communist China, the general approach to dissent has tended to involve either the threat or use of jail cells or guns.
So far the communist government has managed to kill 70,000,000 of its citizens.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
The Stasi would jail you if you wanted to leave the country, form a new political party, make jokes about the communist party bosses.
The American government surveillance is aimed at preventing innocent Americans and people in other countries from being killed by al Qaida and its associates.
It is quite odd that you can't see a meaningful difference there.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Well, the official line of stasi sounded about the same as official line that you quoted.
Then comes the reality of drone killings, guantanamo and so on.
In April of 1945 the leaders of imperial Japan had no illusions that they were losing the war. They began to prepare for the allied invasion of the Japanese home islands. Naotake Sato, foreign minister went to Moscow to negotiate the Soviet Union's continued neutrality in the war. In July of 1945 Emperor Hirohito sent Prime Minister Prince Konoe to Moscow to sue for peace with the Allies. It was hoped that Stalin and the Soviet Union would negotiate on behalf of Japan with the US and Britain, Konoe had carte blanc to end the war before Japan suffered even more. As I said, by this point the Japanese Emperor had no illusions of victory and unlike Hitler, was willing to do something to change this.
Japan was willing to surrender, just not an unconditional surrender that the US and Britain wanted. Now the mistake the Japanese made was sending their envoy through the Soviet union, who did not want peace between the western allies and Japan. Stalin was convinced that the invasion of the Japanese home islands would weaken the US and Britain to the same state as the Soviet Union. At the point Stalin had no idea that the US had working nuclear weapons, so an invasion was the only possible scenario as long as they did not negotiate with the Japanese. As such, Stalin blocked all negotiations between the Japanese and the western allies.
If you think the Japanese weren't willing to surrender, you have been getting bad history.
Now the western allies had no idea at the time Japan was trying to surrender. So I dont second guess the bomb. It was not until years afterwards did the western allies learn the truth of what transpired between Imperial Japan and the Soviet Union and by then they were already scrotum deep in the cold war.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-secret-world-communications-nsa is an example of a Snowden sourced document that provides more information about the operation of arguably legitimate intelligence gathering activities than is necessary to prove breach of the constitution.
Thank you for offering further evidence for my long held suspicion that a very large proportion of what passes for literary criticism is bovine faecal material. For the record I was entirely serious in my comment; I would argue that successful intelligence gathering by non-aggressive countries which undermines the actions of those seeking to damage the questing country is a good thing. For example a plot to land guns and explosive for use in domestic terrorism that is caught as a result of sigint is an unambiguously good thing. Where it gets more iffy is the use of it to maximise your negotiating position in bargaining with people you claim as allies, and its use to provide technical secrets to your commercial firms, as the French were caught doing in the 1980s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage#France_and_the_United_States is an absolute no-no.
It's about time!
My karma is bad. Don't get too close!!!
The Black Book of Communism
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
By the way -
The Americans has done 70,000,000 worldwide.
Utter nonsense.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell