Slashdot Mirror
EU To Vote On Suspension of Data Sharing With US
New submitter badzilla writes with a story from ZDnet that says a vote is scheduled in the European Parliament for today, U.S. Independence Day, on "whether existing data sharing agreements between the two continents should be suspended, following allegations that U.S. intelligence spied on EU citizens." One interesting scenario outlined by the article is that it may disrupt air travel between the U.S. and EU: "In the resolution, submitted to the Parliament on Tuesday, more than two-dozen politicians from a range of political parties call the spying 'a serious violation of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations,' and call on the suspension of the Passenger Name Records (PNR) system. Prior to leaving the airport, airlines must make passenger data available to the U.S. Names, dates of birth, addresses, credit or debit card details and seat numbers are among the data — though critics say the information has never helped catch a suspected criminal or terrorist before. Should the PNR system be suspended, it could result in the suspension of flights to the U.S. from European member states."
Don't blame the messenger.
The root of the problem are the far reaching spying activities of the NSA, not the fact that somebody blew the whistle.
Well, it looks like Snowden's actions continue to bear fruit in harming both the US and its allies.
Bull-fucking-shit.
Oh, unless you mean that stopping them from pulling illegal stunts is harm, in which case, fuck you.
What caused harm was the US and UK doing illegal stuff. Do not confuse the messenger with the message.
As a citizen of the UK and therefore EU, I assert that these leaks did good, not harm. How can bringing criminals to account be considered "harmful". How on earth can stopping a massive US over reach in wanting to pile the old haystack every higher with data on EU citizens be considered "harm"?
SJW n. One who posts facts.
The US harmed itself with it's egregious spying.
All Snowden did is expose the bullshit. He didn't cause the bullshit. That's squarely on the backs of the NSA and the US government's "secret" legislation.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Don't kid yourself about European nations engaging in spying as well, including inside the US and their own neighbors.
Bring out the proof then.
This isn't the first time that the US has been caught with this kind of shit and there have been several cases where the US has used illegally gathered information to get favorable deals during business negotiations rather than to just use it for national security issues.
I suspect that you only can find information of French being in the same club and even then only as a response to shit the US spies did against them.
I second that. There is no harm here, only good. It is long overdue that the EU starts crawling out of the American arse. The only EU country that is an ally to the USA is the UK. Everyone else are more like vassals.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Don't kid yourself about European nations engaging in spying as well, including inside the US and their own neighbors.
for most european countries citizens it wouldn't be even legal to be spying on other countries(to do espionage abroad). for NSA faculty it's legal.
so a lot of the intelligence - which isn't a lot at all - we gather is by trading information with others.
however, this isn't about even that kind of information trading. this is just about the EU providing things like flight passenger lists for european flights to americans, providing our bank statements to americans.. that was done pretty much just as goodwill for the "war on terror" effort. now it's getting obvious and over the table that the data isn't being kept with any sanctity - that once the data goes to usa they don't give a fuck about where it came from since it's from outside the usa they think they can do anything with it.
so yeah, fuck off. abusing privileges tends to end up in losing them. if you can't be bothered to put on any legal rules on access to the data even then why the fuck should we be providing you with all our data which could be used among other things to manipulate stock markets? why?
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Well, it's right there in the article:
That the UK did this is also something they're looking at.
That's exactly what they're suggesting.
There's also this:
As usual, the US won't sign an agreement which says a US entity would have to face laws in other countries, but expect they will get access to those laws when convenient.
It's a one-sided arrangement that isn't working for anyone but the US, and I believe you're going to start seeing countries deciding they're not going to sign up for any more of those. I think people are getting fed up with having terms dictated to them, and aren't going to be willing to keep doing it.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
All the major players spy on each other. Even their allies.
In the past, the convention was to spy on governments or their agencies (who might or might not be spies themselves).
A sledgehammer approach whereby the US imagines that it is somehow OK to spy on citizens of other nations, on a wholesale basis, with no regard to "probable cause" or any of those other convenient elisions is totally unconscionable.
Suspension of data sharing is nothing more than a mumble where real sanctions should be applied. They should be quarantining all human traffic from or to the US, and banning all trade. If the US administration does not choose to operate by civilised rules, then it should be treated as the international pariah that it has become.
I third that (is that a thing?). As a UK citizen I do not feel me or my country has been harmed by Snowden's revelations at all, a few irresponsible individuals may have been harmed such as the management in GCHQ who seem to have broken the law but that's a different thing.
For British citizens it's a good thing because it shows how we don't need to waste billions on the Interception Modernisation Program because GCHQ have been doing it anyway and it still didn't stop terrorists.
It also means we're aware of criminality in our political and intelligence classes and it's much better to know crimes have been committed even if nothing is done about them to be blissfully unaware of the fact because it both better informs you who not to vote for and it acts as ammunition against these people getting their own way on other things that are against the public interest in future lessening their capacity to pull them off.
So yes this is an excellent thing all around, even for those of us in countries that have been embarrassed by the revelations. I didn't vote for this, I explicitly voted against it by voting Lib Dem last election and so did everyone who voted Tory who were also against the policy and we were, combined, over 50% of the electorate, although the Tories have tried to backtrack the Lib Dems have at least stood their ground to kill the IMP twice now which is exactly what the majority of the electorate voted for in this democracy. If GCHQ is going ahead and doing this against the will of the majority of the electorate and against the majority of politicians in power through the published election policies of their parties then we the electorate have a fundamental right to know.
Thank you Snowden for fulfilling that right when vested interests would go against our democratic will and deny us it.
It seems the Europeans see a difference between the ancient and honorable spying of one government on another and wholesale invasion of every citizen's privacy. The USA has gone way beyond what has always been considered accepted practice.
If the EU does stop the PNR, I doubt it will affect air travel to the USA for very long. Too much of USA financial activities are tied up in airlines, and the airlines will not be profitable without the European routes. If the EU takes this step, it will force a conflict in the USA between profit mongers and security mongers. And in the USA, profit always trumps everything else.
Will