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Smartphones May Help Reduce Traffic In the Near Future
crazyvas writes "From the New York Times: 'Experts say services that use smartphones to connect drivers and passengers could help end the reign of single-occupant cars (and unending traffic) in Los Angeles.' One would hope that combined with a recent article from Time stating that Generation Y doesn't think car ownership is cool this might pave the way for less car traffic, more efficient public transit, more pedestrians and bikers, even leading to a healthier population?"
Here's an updated link to the article: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/13/us/In-Los-Angeles-Where-Car-Is-King-Smartphones-May-Cut-Traffic.html
"If they had to pick between a smartphone or a car, they would pick the phone." What sort of choice is that anyway? They aren't comparable. A phone is a few hundred dollars. A car is thousands. Why would you have to choose between them? The second article is also riddle with 'Gen Y would'. Didn't hear from an actual Gen Y person. Just a bunch of old fuddy duddies trying to predict a future market, acting like they are in the know. That always works out. Some old guy telling you what kids think...
"Cowardice in a race, as in an individual, is the unpardonable sin." --Teddy Roosevelt
So what would regulators think of such a service that operates only during nights, Sundays, and holidays, when public transit isn't running anyway?
http://analienmind.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/28_att00031.jpg
but then thats because i drive old junk... no loan, low maintenance, cheap insurance.
Did you RFTA? It doesn't say they don't *drive* - It says millennials don't care about *owning* cars. They're fine with car sharing, car co-ops and using alternate transportation methods. My wife has a large circle of younger cousins (Catholic family) and they're all like this - All in their 20s and not one of them owns a car.
I don't drive to impress others, I drive because it's necessary. Give even the most pretentious hipster the choice between a one hour drive and a three hour bus journey to work (and back) each day, and we'll soon see how "cool" cars become.
If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
A car sharing company promoting the meme that car ownership is not popular with their target market to promote it. How surprising
I'm a Gen Xer, but at the very tail end, and I don't own a car. I live in a major city (not New York), take the bus to and from work, walk to stores, etc. If I need a car, there's Car2Go, Zipcar, Uber, taxis, etc. Somehow I manage to survive.
Do you have kids? I know Slashdot trends towards no kids (or only one kid), but it's often the arrival of children that becomes the catalyst for my non car-owning friends to bite the bullet and start browsing Craigslist to buy a ride.
1) As I recall skimming in an article, in one city (SFO?) the taxi-drivers unions and lobbyists are fighting this tech tooth and nail. Given our predilection today for legalistically protecting the rights of the 'buggy whip makers' (as long as they donate consistently to the right legal campaigns) I'm not sure that there isn't going to be some Byzantine bizarre legal moratorium placed on such apps.
2) humans are still not "safe". I can quite easily conceive of a system like this being spoofed in order for a predator to defer the arranged pickup, and show up instead to offer a ride to that lovely 19 year old coed that 'just needs a lift down to school this morning' - her brutally-raped and murdered body washing up in some meltwater creek months later. There's a reason we still tell our children to watch out for strangers, and if adults think they're somehow inherently safer at maturity, they're sadly mistaken.
-Styopa
I agree fully, with 2 kids I couldn't imagine not having 2 cars my wife and I are a little on the old side at 31 and 32, but we've had 1 car at least since our teens. I'm a smartphone junky but if forced to choose between phone and car I choose car. I think people who are unfortunate enough to be stuck in big cities without access to places outside of said cities don't realize the freedom a car can bring. I spend 2-3hours in my morning commute every day. but when I get home at night to my big yard with kids playing outside and know that by the time I'm 40 I will be debt free. it is well worth the drive. These same people who did the car survey I ask when they plan to move out from their parents houses?
People driving while texting/updating their FB/watching movies etc crash and are injured or killed and therefore not driving anymore, therefore less drivers and less traffic.
Takes a while though, and not reccomended to be on the road in the meantime'
My wife has a large circle of younger cousins (Catholic family) and they're all like this - All in their 20s and not one of them owns a car.
How many of those can reasonably afford a car? Because I didn't have a car either in my 20s until I was making enough that payments/repairs/gas wouldn't take most of my income.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Actually, what is 'cool' is pretty damn important since, getting away from people who have a specific need, one of the reasons cars are so common and so heavily used in the US is because of their cultural connections. Cars have massive symbolic value to a great deal of the population, meaning far more people own and use them then actually need them and people actively fight effective alternatives both in terms of projects and associating stigma with them.
If society trends away from that 'cool' factor cars have into 'uncool', then you would probably see a decrease in the already artificially high usage.
Google Maps and the like presumably use feedback from smart phones (among other data sources) to build their real-time congestion maps.
I use my smart phone's map app to decide what route to take and whether to delay my trip.
So, even today, smart phones are helping reduce congestion even if they aren't actually reducing traffic.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
How many of those can reasonably afford a car?
Could they afford to pick up a used Civic or Focus on Craigslist? Sure. They just choose not to.
If you think of a used car only in terms of the initial sales price, you are silly.
Read my post again, if the car is taking most of your income (it will on minimum wage), that doesn't count as reasonable.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Eh. I couldn't imagine being unfortunate enough to have to trade 2-3 hours a day [*] sitting in a car for a yard to take care of when there's a well maintained city park across the street -- not to mention all the other amenities the city provides. I'm sincerely glad what you have is working for you but don't believe that city dwellers all feel "stuck."
[*] 2 hours/day x 5 days/week x 45 weeks/year x 10 years is 4500 hours, pretty much a full 1/2 year of dead time in the period you're talking about. Even if my public transportation commute were that long, I'd have been able to read, say, 450 books in that time.
Just stick them on your bike. One seat on the handlebars and one in back. Or get a cargo bike. Most young parents around here seem to manage fine.
And for those of us who live in 99% the US, it's effectively imperative.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
This is, if I'm reading it right, just hitchhiking. Safe 99% of the time, which means you'll probably only get raped/mugged/beaten and left for dead once every 100 trips or so - maybe twice a year. Less if you actually die.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
It says millennials don't care about *owning* cars. ... My wife has a large circle of younger cousins (Catholic family) and they're all like this - All in their 20s and not one of them owns a car.
Is it that they don't care about owning cars, or is it that owning a car is too expensive for young people in a tough job market?
My sense is that in walkable/bikable areas (like large cities in the Northeast U.S.), many people don't own cars. This has been true for generations. And for those who do, they don't tend to buy one until they are older, have a family, become more established in their jobs, etc. With kids, they find a greater need for a car sometimes, and with a steady job for a few years, they might be able to afford insurance, maintenance, loans, etc. for a big purchase like a car.
When I lived in such a place for a while (and was in my 20s), I ended up getting rid of my car when I moved in with my wife. To family members and friends who lived elsewhere in the country, they thought this was a little weird if not insane -- "You won't have your own car anymore?" But my wife and both had cars, and the cost of insurance and maintenance for two cars in a walkable city just didn't make sense. So why would I keep owning one, let alone buying a new one?
Also, I really think the family angle needs to be highlighted -- for single "millennials" (or even couples) in their 20s, living without a car can seem easy. Once you're in your 30s or 40s and have kids to haul around, it can become a lot harder to live most places without a car. Single people I know in big cities often don't own a car, even in their 50s or 60s.
Maybe we're just seeing a trend where young people are putting off purchasing a car, even if they don't tend to live in a big city, for similar reasons in tough economic times. Rather that just "buy an old junker" like kids might have a generation or two ago, they just wait until they have the money and/or need it (like when they have a family).
Let's wait a decade or so until millennials actually "grow up" and see whether owning a car still is "not cool" to them.
A car sharing social network would make a great plot device for CSI:NY. And by great I mean stupid.
Free Manning, jail Obama.
I wonder where they got their polling data. If it was all in the cities it would make sense. Head a few miles outside of a major city and you NEED a car to do anything
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
But outside cities this sort of thing is even more perfect. Brings small towns back together and helps people get around more easily. Need a lift across town? Maybe Jimbo is headed in for groceries and can give you a lift. This sort of thing is what the internet is SUPPOSED to be for: Communication and connecting people to make more efficient use of resources. Instead, it's being hobbled by unions and legal bullshit. I mean, come on... one death every 18 MONTHS in ALL of Los Angeles for cab drivers? That's an incredibly safe track record if you ask me, and that was back when crime was much higher in LA!
I say, get the F out of the way Mr Government so we can actually see some more efficiency.
Yes, I live in Los Angeles.
-
This is why I'm excited about the future with automated driverless cars. I can reclaim those hours reading, sleeping, watching the news, talking or texting safely, putting on makeup (for the womenfolk)... whatever, just not having to pay attention to the road.
All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
Just stick them on your bike
Just got back from Costco with my 2 year old and 5 year old. Back of the station wagon's full of provisions. Explain to me again how that works on a bike?
It doesn't. You go to a local store on your way from work and pick up supplies for the day. Not for the whole month. Leaving out unhealthy goods like soda and milk will seriously cut down on the amount of hauling you have to do. To be fair, this probably is easier when you aren't stuck in a suburban sprawl. If you are, you have my commiserations.
You go to a local store on your way from work and pick up supplies for the day.
I leave work at 5. I get home at 5:45. That just give me time to help make and have dinner with the kids (with maybe a trip to the park afterwards) before we start pajamas, teeth brushing, stories and bedtime.
...and as for healthy stuff, I brought a mess of organic strawberries, blueberries and rasberries home from Costco, as well as other tasty stuff.
No way I'm gonna eat into that time in some Mayberry fantasy world of stopping by the Piggly Wiggly on the way home.
So when he's sitting on property worth 200k plus minimum and only paying 4k annual in taxes, where will your savings be?
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
The property we bought for retirement is in downtown New Orleans, so probably -- in the most literal sense -- "underwater."
Didn't your mom teach you to look at the person you're talking to? At the very least you could move your hair out of the way so I can tell if you are or not.
And get a fricken job already!
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I'm researching the casual carpool setup in the San Francisco bay area to find ways to make it work better. I do *not* nescecarily think this needs an app, in fact I'd be happy if this project didn't result in one, but one thing I've found is currently, there are none. No ride-sharing apps to facilitate casual carpool (or slug-line as they call it on the east coast). Kind of crazy right? If anyone out there is working on a similar project I'd love to share notes. I have some publicly funded studies in hand, and a small team of people working on their own time on the project. This is conceived as a free beer and speech project not commercial. Message me here, I'll remember to check sometime next week, or find dana dane on fb.
closed minded is as closed minded does
Because if you are going to build new cross-town rail (over or under the surface) you need to start NOW in order for those people to use it when they turn 30.
"... and more and more now there are all kinds of electronic goodies available" -- Pink Floyd 1972
What is more likely is that these apps encourage people to use cars more. Especially the ones that pay drivers to work like taxi drivers. This just puts more drivers on the road, driving empty to pick up passengers.
Did you RFTA? It doesn't say they don't *drive* - It says millennials
I stopped reading at that word.
Its used by crotchety old men in dying print media to deride people under 20 because they cant think of a legitimate complaint but wish to complain about those "utes" anyway.
In the more congested US and European cities owning a car is impractical because there's nowhere to park and you take the bus to work anyway, here people tend to hire cars by the day when they need them. But in most of the country in the western world car ownership amongst under 20's is relatively common. Certainly in Australia, most people will have their license and first car by the age of 20 (you can sit your driving test at 17), many will be onto their 2nd car by 20.
I suspect motorbike and scooter ownership to rise (or already has risen) as a response to congestion.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
If you think of a used car only in terms of the initial sales price, you are silly.
Read my post again, if the car is taking most of your income (it will on minimum wage), that doesn't count as reasonable.
Yes, and cars are not that expensive to own unless you're a complete idiot.
My first car was a EK Civic, it got 7L/100 KM in the city, doing 250 KM a week when petrol was A$1.40 a litre I bought about 18 litres it was A$26 a week on fuel. Registration was $420 a year. Maintenance was 2 yearly services at $200 a shot. A set of tyres set me back A$500 and trust me, the US gets tyres for a lot less than we do. If you're spending more than $2500 on running a car, you're doing it wrong, if you're really cheap you could run it on less than $500 (read, you drive it until it dies then buy another $500 car).
If you're frugal like me, you learn to do a lot of things yourself, I changed my own brake pads (which I learned to do by watching some videos on YouTube), air con filters, head unit, buffed out scratches. If you go onto YouTube you'll find a lot of video's explaining how to maintain your car, all you need to do is search for the model of car you have and the task you want to perform.
Now owning a sports car, that's expensive (I just paid A$600 for performance brake pads) but a student or low wage earner will not be buying a sports car.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
You're pretty amazing. If you're making minimum wage, $2,500 is a huge chunk of change that you could spend on something else.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
so you live in one of the biggest cities and you are trying to convince me that where i live (10 miles from anything) that I dont need a car???
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Universal single-occupant car ownership and use is a product of the US not getting the living crap bombed out of it during World War II. Notice all those nice transportation systems in Europe? Well, those were a combination of necessity and opportunity. You have a lot of free rein in, say, devastated Japanese cities to run roads, tracks, and whatever else you want after a war than you do in pristine postwar Houston. In fact, since the non-destroyed cities aren't in reconstruction, the idea of a major project that would displace existing things and change stuff will be a tough sell in the first place.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!