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Very Large Telescope Observes Gas Cloud Being Ripped Apart By Black Hole

Posted by Unknown on from the twirling-toward-oblivion dept.

An anonymous reader writes "New observations (PDF) from ESO's Very Large Telescope show for the first time a gas cloud being ripped apart by the supermassive black hole at the center of the galaxy. The cloud is now so stretched that its front part has passed the closest point and is traveling away from the black hole at more than 10 million km/h, whilst the tail is still falling towards it."

45 of 66 comments (clear)

  1. wow by eyenot · · Score: 1

    That black hole really ripped one.

    --
    "Stratigraphically the origin of agriculture and thermonuclear destruction will appear essentially simultaneous" -- Lee
    1. Re:wow by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      In Soviet Goat.cx, gas-cloud rips YOUR black-hole!

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    2. Re:wow by plover · · Score: 4, Funny

      In Soviet Goat.cx, gas-cloud rips YOUR black-hole!

      You must be old here.

      --
      John
    3. Re:wow by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Getting there, sonny. ;-)

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    4. Re:wow by Hillgiant · · Score: 2

      You must be old here.

      Son, that right there is a three digit UID. Ain't but about a thousand of those around any more.

      --
      -
  2. Metric, you know? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    First off, congrats on using metric in the summary. This is a big deal and deserving of recognition.

    Now that we're all on board, let's "kick it up a notch" and explore some of the other SI prefixes. Since the k in km means thousand, the phrase "10 million km/h" is effectively the same as "10 million thousand m/h", or "10 billion m/h". Since SI has a prefix for billion, we can further simplify our phrase by simply stating "10 Gm/h".

    Wasn't that fun?

    1. Re:Metric, you know? by sycodon · · Score: 5, Funny

      Metric aside, what scale is Very Large fall under?

      Will the next one be called Big Ass Telescope? Then, perhaps, Ginormous Telescope?

      I can't wait for the Fucking-A Telescope.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    2. Re:Metric, you know? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      BFT1.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    3. Re:Metric, you know? by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      km/h is a rather well personally understood speed. So 10 million km/h gives us a better understand of the speed than 10 Gm/h only because we will need to convert back to km/h to get a good understanding of the speed.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    4. Re:Metric, you know? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      After "Very Large" comes "Hella Big" and then "Freakin' Huge" followed by "My God, Look at that thing"

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    5. Re:Metric, you know? by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      we can further simplify our phrase by simply stating "10 Gm/h".

      To further simplify it I would suggest that you use the SI base unit for time. That means your 10 would become 2,777,777.7... m/s of course, I think we should consider significant figures here, and assuming only 2 significant figures then you end up with 2.8 Mm/s

      Of course, given that in my normal day-to-day conversations I use m/s as the preferred metric of measuring speed, I'm quite comfortable using this as a comparative measurement. 'Why Jim, did you see how fast that car was going? It must have been doing at least 45 m/s in that 50 kph zone!' So always use base unit SI when discussing anything and it will be completely understandable to the reader of the article.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    6. Re:Metric, you know? by Vanderhoth · · Score: 2

      Although I agree some applause is warranted for the use of the metric system in the summary, and you are correct, I'm from a metric country and we don't use some SI units for whatever reason, maybe we should use them, but we don't. Deci (d), Deca (da) and hecto (h) as examples are often ignored, we typically just go from centimetres (0.01 m) to meters to killometers (1000 m). I think it's probably the same reason that a Furlong isn't used much in the English system. It exists and in some context does get used, but for the most part people will just say an eight of a mile. I mean why wouldn't you say Furlong? It's a fun word to say.

    7. Re:Metric, you know? by T.E.D. · · Score: 4, Funny

      Even in the USA metric units are used in Physics and Astronomy.

      While this may be gratifying to see if you are accessing this American website from abroad, and are used to having to do mental conversions, you really shouldn't get the idea in your head that folks here in America have finally decided to reorder their thinking to suit your conveinence.

      I swear, give you Europeans an inch, and you'll take a mile. :-)

    8. Re:Metric, you know? by war4peace · · Score: 2

      Human perceivable speeds are usually represented in km/h. Scientifically, most speeds are represented in m/s (save the extremes). Since this article is likely aiming to popularize the observation, it only makes sense to use km/h although this is a rather extreme speed. The reason is that the Average Joe could understand that it's "very very fast".

      I salute this approach. Being too scientific for the sake of science is turning lots of interested people away.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    9. Re:Metric, you know? by Iniamyen · · Score: 1

      Metric aside, what scale is Very Large fall under?

      What's a very large fall?

    10. Re:Metric, you know? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Will the next one be called Big Ass Telescope? Then, perhaps, Ginormous Telescope?

      Don't make fun of them. The eggheads organized a creative naming contest and this was the fair winner.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    11. Re:Metric, you know? by sycodon · · Score: 1

      I have no idea. What was that guy talking about anyway?

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    12. Re:Metric, you know? by PPH · · Score: 2

      European Extremely Large Telescope

      The British are in charge of naming it. So it will be called the "Slightly Larger Telescope".

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    13. Re:Metric, you know? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      http://www.vlf.it/frequency/bands.html

      There is already a precedent

      Extremely Large Telescope
      Super Large Telescope
      Ultra Large Telescope
      Very Large Telescope
      Large Telescope
      Medium Telescope
      Small Telescope
      Very Small Telescope
      Ultra Small Telescope
      Super Small Telescope
      Extremely Small Telescope

    14. Re:Metric, you know? by plover · · Score: 1

      Much as I'd like to, 50 years of understanding exactly how fast 60 MPH is means I have to pause and think about a little mental conversion when I see kph. However, when I saw this story, I didn't have to do that. 10,000,000 kph is so fast that I have no frame of reference where a converted figure would help me understand it any more than an unconverted figure.

      It helped when you expressed it in terms of m/s, because I at least know the speed of light is about 300,000,000 m/s. Even so, it's still little more than a huge number. All I can really do is compare it to other huge numbers.

      --
      John
    15. Re:Metric, you know? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Also note that this is a logarithmic scale. An Extremely Large Telescope would be the size of Switzerland and be able to read the serial numbers off the Mars rovers.

    16. Re:Metric, you know? by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1

      Being too scientific for the sake of science is turning lots of interested people away.

      Alan Alda (yes, Hawkeye Pierce) has said almost the exact same thing in this article. Essentially, he wants the science folks to be more clear when describing something without the technical terms.

      This does not mean dumb down the science, just explain more clearly what is taking place.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    17. Re:Metric, you know? by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      This does not mean dumb down the science, just explain more clearly what is taking place.

      This is a valuable lesson for us in tech as well .. my mother in law was recently surprised I could explain something to somebody without using a single technical term and waving away the boring details.

      I had a prof in university who said if you can't explain it to someone who doesn't have a solid background in it, you don't understand it yourself.

      Being able to describe at least the overall gist of something to a non-technical person is a very missing skill for a lot of people. I once had a PM laugh that I could describe something complicated using only monkeys and bananas as the metaphor -- but everyone in the room followed what I was saying, and could subsequently cite my metaphor to ask questions. (Obviously, it isn't perfect, but it can be very helpful)

      Some people just can't (or won't) try to simplify what they're saying without dumbing it down so far as to not convey any information.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    18. Re:Metric, you know? by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      Metric aside, what scale is Very Large fall under?

      Will the next one be called Big Ass Telescope? Then, perhaps, Ginormous Telescope?

      I can't wait for the Fucking-A Telescope.

      I can't wait for the Fucking-A Telescope.

      Too bad it will be dwarfed by the "Venti" telescope. And there will be an "Extra-Big-Ass" model preceding the Ginormous version.

    19. Re:Metric, you know? by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1

      Ditto. Like you, I can explain most technical ideas to non-technical people (*cough* parents *cough*) using examples or analogies and they grasp the basics.

      As to your PM, for as much as I would like to get into project management, the more I see the folks in the industry the less it becomes viable. They appear to be more interested in following PMBOC and tossing around terms than getting results.

      "The project failed, but here are all the timelines, statements of work and change requests!"

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    20. Re:Metric, you know? by BuckNaked78 · · Score: 1

      You mean one of these? http://imgur.com/rZOyETV

    21. Re:Metric, you know? by clarkn0va · · Score: 1

      I once had a PM laugh that I could describe something complicated using only monkeys and bananas as the metaphor -- but everyone in the room followed what I was saying

      Bananas and monkeys have long been the mainstay of those would entertain the Prime Minister.

      --
      I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
    22. Re:Metric, you know? by clarkn0va · · Score: 1

      If we follow the VGA standard, and if I'm reading this graphic correctly, it will either be the SVLT or the WVLT, depending on which aspect ratio they choose.

      --
      I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
    23. Re:Metric, you know? by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Informative

      As to your PM, for as much as I would like to get into project management, the more I see the folks in the industry the less it becomes viable.

      Like anything, it depends entirely on the PM -- I worked on a project the other year that had 3 PMs (out of necessity due to the scale of it).

      The lead PM had a very clear path to how we were going to do it, and what had to happen first ... he's the best PM I've ever worked with. He was hard-assed, and demanded a lot. There was a damned good reason for all of it, his timelines were as reasonable as they could be, and he ran with all of the administrivia to ground to make sure it got done so when we finished one set of tasks everything we needed to start the next was already in place. I've respected only a handful of PMs, and he was head and shoulders above the rest.

      One of the PMs was utterly useless and everything assigned to her she tried to foist off on me -- and I had to keep telling her the reason she was doing the 'boring' tasks of getting approvals was so we could focus on actually building it.

      We got a massive undertaking done on-time, and with great success.

      So, if you have a PM who has been in the industry a while and isn't going to get bamboozled by someone, understands you need to have a good clear plan for what you're doing, and can keep everyone on track -- a good PM can be the difference between the success or failure of a large project.

      And, a PM who hasn't got enough domain expertise to follow the plot, isn't focused on every detail and staying on top of them ... then, yeah, some of those can be complete wankers who don't help anything get done.

      There are PMs out there who are are really good, have enough domain expertise to understand what you're saying (and know when they need to ask questions), and will focus on making it possible for you to do your part. Those ones are really valuable to have around.

      If you can do that, you might find yourself very much in demand, because good, thorough PMs are hard to find.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    24. Re:Metric, you know? by CODiNE · · Score: 1

      I had a prof in university who said if you can't explain it to someone who doesn't have a solid background in it, you don't understand it yourself.

      That's actually based on an old saying but I'm not certain exactly who originated it. Some say Einstein, other's say Feynman... perhaps Einstein actually said "It should be possible to explain the laws of physics to a barmaid."

      I can understand why your prof didn't source it.

      --
      Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
    25. Re:Metric, you know? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Km/h is a well understood speed measurement, but 10 million is so big that there is nothing to compare it to and so no one can understand it. On the other hand, if you say 3 000 km/s, than it's easy to picture what it means because people can understand what 3,000 km is and they can understand what a second is.

      Saying 10 million km/h is just bad.

    26. Re:Metric, you know? by MetalOne · · Score: 1

      Almost 1% the speed of light

    27. Re:Metric, you know? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      I can understand why your prof didn't source it.

      He may have done so, but it was 20 years ago and I was not fully aware of some of the stuff he was teaching me until I got out in the real world and realized he had taught it to me.

      One of those profs who imparted a lot more knowledge than the direct classroom stuff, and to whom I have been eternally grateful as a result. He also taught me egoless programming and code reviews, but more because when we were working together that's how we worked than it was him saying "you should do this because it's a good idea". It was just how we worked, and I didn't think much of it at the time.

      No matter who is the source of the notion, it's damned fine advice. The number of times I've had to explain something technical without having to use technical terms (until later in the conversation) I couldn't even begin to count. And I still meet people who have been in the industry as long (or longer) than I who utterly fail at communicating with non-technical people.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    28. Re:Metric, you know? by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      Much as I'd like to, 50 years of understanding exactly how fast 60 MPH is means I have to pause and think about a little mental conversion when I see kph

      Right after I posted, I realized I should have included a 'sarcasm' tag. In my example, I made mention of someone doing 45m/s in a 50kph zone to show that even to an engineer like myself, velocities in terms of meters per second are never mentioned in 'real life'.

      (That 45m/s is about 100 MPH, obviously much more than 50kph)

      I'm the same as you though, I've tried switching all the gauges in my car and GPS to metric units to get me into the 'feel' of how far a kilometer is, but it's been about 6 months and so far hasn't taken.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    29. Re:Metric, you know? by TheTerseOne · · Score: 1

      And of course - if the "Slightly Larger Telescope" ever stops working for some reason - all you need to do is try turning it off and back on again.

      --
      "Newspapers: A tiny little part of the internet, printed out yesterday, and delivered to your house"
    30. Re:Metric, you know? by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      I swear, give you Europeans an inch, and you'll take a mile. :-)

      Well to be fair, they thought they were only taking a meter.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    31. Re:Metric, you know? by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      I thought it went Healthy, Husky, Fluffy, and Daaaamn.

    32. Re:Metric, you know? by dkf · · Score: 1

      I swear, give you Europeans an inch, and you'll take a mile. :-)

      Well to be fair, they thought they were only taking a meter.

      And they were really just looking for a close double-quote.

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    33. Re:Metric, you know? by gomiam · · Score: 1

      A billion is a million million for everyone but a few misguided individuals ;-)

  3. Other Resources by tist · · Score: 4, Informative

    Dr. Gillessen's web page has additional information here - https://wiki.mpe.mpg.de/gascloud/FrontPage and the ESO website has an article as well thatexplains what is happening - http://www.eso.org/public/news/eso1332/
    JJW

  4. Homer by Iniamyen · · Score: 1

    Mmmm, VLT...

  5. Re:Ripped Apart? by rwise2112 · · Score: 1

    Can you legitimately use the phrase "ripped appart" to describe anything that happens to a cloud of gas?

    Yeah, sounds really powerful dosen't it? Almost as strong as, say, a light breeze.

    --

    "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
  6. Gas clouds and black holes by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

    By any chance, would this be anywhere near Uranus?

    --
    Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  7. SCSI by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    Reminds me of SCSI. I guess it is all relative.

    Just like a minicomputer, wasn't really all that "mini" but in comparison to normal room sized computers they were.

    Just like the Microcomputer, isn't all that micro considering things like ultrabooks, or ITX, or even things like tablets or phones.

    Heck I have seen some "portable" computers that were more like a full ATX case, with a handle and a low resolution 6" screen tacked on the end with a full sized keyboard attacked. "Luggable" maybe.

    I would deduce that currently it is "Very Large" compared to most of its compatriots hence the moniker.

  8. Strong gas by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

    I never knew that one needs much power to rip a gas cloud apart. Must be strong gas.

    --
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