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Nitrogen Fixing Bacteria That Can Colonize Most Plants Discovered

Zothecula writes "Synthetic crop fertilizers are a huge source of pollution. This is particularly true when they're washed from fields (or leach out of them) and enter our waterways. Unfortunately, most commercial crops need the fertilizer, because it provides the nitrogen that they require to survive. Now, however, a scientist at the University of Nottingham has developed what he claims is an environmentally-friendly process, that allows virtually any type of plant to obtain naturally-occurring nitrogen directly from the atmosphere." The process involves injecting a bacteria that colonizes the plant and fixes atmospheric nitrogen in exchange for a bit of sugar, similar to soybeans. Only this bacteria will readily colonize most any plant.

187 comments

  1. Let me guess... by slick7 · · Score: 1, Troll

    Monsanto or DuPont.

    --
    The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
    1. Re:Let me guess... by adminstring · · Score: 5, Informative

      Let me read TFA... Azotic Technologies.

      --
      My truck is like a series of tubes.
    2. Re:Let me guess... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      GMO, Devil, Evil, Bad, KILLING HUMANITY!!! Organic Only!!!!!!!!

    3. Re: Let me guess... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      not for long!

    4. Re:Let me guess... by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

      GMO, Devil, Evil, Bad, KILLING HUMANITY!!! Organic Only!!!!!!!!

      Oh, but this was discovered in Europe, or at least England, so its ok. No problem.

      Unless or until its licensed exclusively by Monsanto, then, EVIL AGAIN!

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    5. Re:Let me guess... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      RTFA, this isn't GMO.

    6. Re:Let me guess... by Talderas · · Score: 1

      Azotic Technologies

      Azotic Technology

      Azotic technology

      Az technology

      Aztechnology

      We're screwed.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    7. Re:Let me guess... by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      Hopefully they will not allow this in GMO crops.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    8. Re:Let me guess... by Blue+Stone · · Score: 1

      Well, I dare say a monopoly patent on a naturally occurring living organism for the exclusive profiteering of a corporation would be evil, yes.

      What's your point?

      --
      Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
    9. Re:Let me guess... by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 1

      And why the hell not? Techniques based in biological factors, as opposed to inputs, are the future of farming. The use of beneficial microbial life, as well as the changing of genetics, are both sustainable biological methods of agricultural improvement.

    10. Re:Let me guess... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I could easily kill you.

      Achmed, is that you??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uwOL4rB-go

    11. Re:Let me guess... by oreiasecaman · · Score: 1

      A shadowrun reference! It's been so long since I've last played... now you made me feel old :)

      --
      This is a UDP joke, I don't care if you get it or not...
    12. Re:Let me guess... by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      Because GMO as practiced by Monsanto is inherently bad? Mixing random genetic material into our food supply is not exactly a smart thing IMNSHO.

      You may disagree. That's fine. I prefer my "natural organic" to be exactly both of those. If, however, by GMO you mean looking through the current set of genes in a plant and creating those minor mutations that would occur naturally randomly anyways, that's a different story. I'm certainly not an adherent of endless cross-polination to get a maybe result - that we can do via manipulation and short-circuit the process and waste less time. And I'm not sure the focus should be on agricultural improvement as much as perhaps reducing the explosive population growth, at least until there's somewhere to grow into. Endless megacities or hive structures are not overly appealing. There is no reason that we can't maintain a largely stable population on this planet that can be fed and housed without utilizing every square mm for those purposes.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    13. Re:Let me guess... by slick7 · · Score: 1

      Let me read TFA... Azotic Technologies.

      Halliburton, Halliburton, Halliburton!!

      --
      The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
    14. Re:Let me guess... by slick7 · · Score: 1

      Azotic Technologies

      Azotic Technology

      Azotic technology

      Az technology

      Aztechnology

      We're screwed.

      Honey Badger don't give a damn.

      --
      The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
  2. so we're obsolete by drwho · · Score: 4, Funny

    Animals are now obsolete. The plants can kill us off now, watch our for your cucumbers and geraniums.

    1. Re:so we're obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe there was an incredibly stupid movie (M. Night Shamalamalalamahohehehe I think) about that a few years ago. Once again, life imitates art.

    2. Re:so we're obsolete by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Axel Pressbutton. Comic book. He was half eaten by plants, including his junk. No he gets off by having his 'button pressed' and hates all plants.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    3. Re:so we're obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They need us to supply them with CO2.

    4. Re:so we're obsolete by Lotana · · Score: 1

      Yes. Humanity is a way for wheat to make more of itself. Why without those bipedal, hairless apes to clear nice, fertile areas of land it would just go the way of the Dodo.

    5. Re:so we're obsolete by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      My 'O' level biology teach claimed that many years ago. Looked a good argument right up until I pointed out that the geraniums in the labs that he claimed required no animals would be the last geraniums in the world if all the animals died tomorrow. Hint they need insects to pollinate and reproduce.

    6. Re:so we're obsolete by perceptual.cyclotron · · Score: 1

      Audrey II in Little Shop of Horrors, circa 1960, is probably the better prior...

  3. Green apocalypse by Stoutlimb · · Score: 1, Troll

    With a bacteria that can infect plants and cause them to suck nitrogen out of the air... let out of control on a large scale, this may affect the world in a drastic way, much like how the first oxygen producing microbes first appeared on earth.

    1. Re:Green apocalypse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Hardly -- you're overestimating the role of land plants in the ecosystem. Most nitrogen fixation is done by cyanobacteria in the oceans.

      Also, nitrogen fixation hasn't led to a depletion of nitrogen in the atmosphere, because there are whole families of denitrifying bacteria that make a living reducing nitrate back to N2 (a process which is much easier than going the other way).

    2. Re:Green apocalypse by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 4, Informative

      This is a key part of permaculture, using plants that establish such relationships to build soil mass. Members of the legume family, peas and beans, already do this. So do trees like Russian Olive. These plants are capable of demonstrating "weedy" like behavior in that they can land in places that have nothing, establish a toe hold and grow and build soil as they die over generations. So, if you're an environmentalist who is horrified that "icky algae" is being displaced by something new, you might hate these types of plants, but really, they are pioneering plants that build fertility. I spent a lot of time researching what types of plants with these characteristics would grow in my local area because I'm interested in building a "Food Forest". Look up some of Geoff Lawton's videos on the subject, it's fascinating stuff.

      The idea that something like this is a threat is kind of laughable. It would be an incredible boon. People are already purchasing bacteria and rubbing it into their seeds to give them a good start, but the bacteria only form the necessary symbiotic relationship on a small selection of plants.

      I'll be sharing this with some of the folks at the local community farm I'm involved with who know more about the subject than I and see what they make of it, that's for sure...

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    3. Re:Green apocalypse by martas · · Score: 1

      So much easier, in fact, that trapping N2 from the atmosphere into usable molecules is ridiculously expensive (the N2 bond is so strong that nitrogen almost always acts like a noble gas, i.e. completely chemically inert).

    4. Re:Green apocalypse by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      Define "ridiculously expensive" please. I routinely fill sixteen of those 5 ft tall nitrogen bottles. It takes about three hours to fill the pack up. Some days, it might take as much as six hours - but that is about 4 times faster than we use the stuff, so it's still cool.

      http://www.balstonfilters.com/nitrogen_systems.html?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=nitrogen%20generator&utm_content=Nitrogen%2BGenerators&utm_campaign=BF-Nit.%2BGenerators-Local&ex=9v32bx-13c8k9q-1y4hlm

      Run compressed air from an industrial air compressor to the generator, then feed the nitrogen to a four stage air compressor. I never asked what the system cost, new - but I don't think it was as much as $30,000. Oh - toss in the air dryer, you might have a bit over $30,000. I can't promise any PURITY level. We have to constantly monitor the oxygen content. I can say that as long as we keep oxygen content below 10% we can put hydrocarbons (plastic) under tons of pressure while it cools and hardens without any chemical reactions taking place.

      Of course, this is industrial use, not academic laboratory work. Your purity requirements may require equipment that costs much more - or not.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    5. Re:Green apocalypse by martas · · Score: 1

      All that gets you is N2 gas in a can. To be biologically useful, nitrogen needs to be trapped as part of a range of molecules. That involves breaking the N2 bond, which takes a lot of energy. While it can be facilitated with come catalysts, to my knowledge the family of microbes in question are much better at doing it than any existing industrial process.

    6. Re:Green apocalypse by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      Ahhhh - biologically useful. I guess the best biological use I can put my N2 to, would be asphyxiating aerobic critters . . . maybe politicians?

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  4. I read it as they can "colonize most planets" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Massive let down when I realized it wasn't a breakthrough in terraforming! :((((

    1. Re:I read it as they can "colonize most planets" by Urza9814 · · Score: 2

      I was just gonna say the same thing! Also the headline says 'discovered', the summary says 'developed'...I thought this was possible 'Earth life was seeded from another planet!' stuff. I mean why else say 'colonize most planets' instead of 'extremophile' or something? Such a letdown!

    2. Re:I read it as they can "colonize most planets" by internerdj · · Score: 1

      I don't know about that. A plant that can pull fertilizer from the air has to have some sort of value in teraforming even if it wasn't addressed here.

  5. What could possibly go wrong? by OhANameWhatName · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seriously? What's wrong with using nitrogen fixing plants to fill the soil with nitrogen? Yeah .. it's much more fun to engineer your own plant effects but it can have unknown side effects. If you're going to try to get rid of artificial fertilizers, shouldn't you be ensuring that your solution is sustainable? Creating and distributing large quantities of bacteria with unknown long term effects is not a known quantity and hence .. is not a sustainable solution.

    May as well keep spraying artificial fertilizers, at least we know how that degrades the soil.

    1. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If people used sustainable practices -- cover crops, rotating or mixing in nitrogen-fixing plants, etc. -- then exactly how would chemical companies benefit?

    2. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 1

      What could go wrong is massive dead zones from fertilizer use. This doesn't have to be perfect, just better. Biological agriculture is the future.

    3. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by khallow · · Score: 2

      There's one obvious way to find out. Try it and see what happens.

    4. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually it is the epitome of sustainable once they get loose they will naturally spread and fertilize all our plants forever. The long term effect is that plants will get more nutrient. The long long term effect might be that plants begin evolving to become completely reliant on the bacteria, and if they fail somehow could cause a mass plant die off. I doubt we will be around for that though.

    5. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by Doubting+Sapien · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think you guys are misunderstanding what is being accomplished here. Using nitrogen fixing bacteria instead of artificial fertilizer means you *DON'T* have excess nitrates leaching out into the environment. The bacteria acts locally - usually right at the roots of the plant where it has colonized in return for being fed with sugars by the host. It is a truly balanced symbiotic relationship that is self-regulating.

      --
      ========== "Hello World" in my programming language of choice: ATG - LET THERE BE LIFE - TAG ==========
    6. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There's one obvious way to find out. Try it and see what happens.

      Yeah, like introducing silver carp into rivers and ponds to control algae. That worked out real well, so it's we can put that failed experiment behind us. Oops, I guess we can't.

    7. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 1

      That's exactly what I was getting at. There are already problems with fertilizer use. New ways of utilizing nitrogen fixing bacteria could provide a superior alternative, or at least cut the need for fertilizers.

    8. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by gagol · · Score: 1

      If I had mod points... well you would have +3 insightful by now.

      --
      Tomorrow is another day...
    9. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by ThatsLoseNotLoose · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm sure you're joking.

      But just in case you're not, read the terrifying account of Klebsiella planticola.

      Had they just released it to see what would happen, we might all be starving to death right now.

    10. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look, there's a solution to that. All we have to do is eventually get the answer to be Gorillas, and then they'll die off in the Winter.

    11. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by Ferrofluid · · Score: 1

      I think what ChromeAeonium was saying is that this is better than using traditional fertilizers, specifically because it wouldn't result in dead zones.

    12. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by icebike · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Exactly.

      Because its not the nitrogen fixing that is the problem, its all the other side effects of artificial fertilization that we could avoid.
      As it is, some crop land gets planted in clover or alfalfa once in a while to fix nitrogen in the soil.

      By the way Alfalfa already fixes nitrogen with the help of a bacteria:

      Like other legumes, its root nodules contain bacteria, Sinorhizobium meliloti, with the ability to fix nitrogen, producing a high-protein feed regardless of available nitrogen in the soil.[17] Its nitrogen-fixing ability (which increases soil nitrogen) and its use as an animal feed greatly improve agricultural efficiency.

      So this discovery is actually nothing new, just a more versatile strain of bacteria.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    13. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 3, Informative

      Farmers would never waste money on fertilizer that just gets washed away.

      It really isn't a flat out waste so much as an inefficiency. The more fertilizer you use, the higher your yield, but the lower the fertilizer uptake rate of the plant. To use a simplified example, if you apply a kilogram of fertilizer, a group of plants might take up .5kg, but if you apply 2kg, the plants might only uptake .9kg, which means that the plants are getting more nutrients overall but are using a smaller portion of what is applied as the applied amount rises.. Of course farmers don't spend time and money they don't have to on unnecessary fertilizer, it is just that efficiency drops as usage increases, which is why nutrient use efficiency research is important.

    14. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by epine · · Score: 1

      Creating and distributing large quantities of bacteria with unknown long term effects is not a known quantity and hence .. is not a sustainable solution.

      You left out a step in the middle. It's called a MOOC. That's where you learn things you didn't used to know. Everything one doesn't understand has unknown long term effects and hence is unsustainable.

    15. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by lxs · · Score: 1

      But what if the bacteria act locally on every single stalk of grain produced? The thing about nitrogen fixing bacteria in the wild is that they don't accompany every single plant in a field.

      I think that there is a good chance that this will be an improvement over chemical fertilizers and welcome more resarch in this area, but don't automatically assume that it's safe just because it's natural.

    16. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by sFurbo · · Score: 1

      Seriously? What's wrong with using nitrogen fixing plants to fill the soil with nitrogen?

      Clover coil sickness, for one thing.
      Clover disease if you feed to much of it to your livestock.
      Inefficient use of land leading to more land needed to feed a given population.

      Not that it is a no-go, but it is not a panacea either.

    17. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. Somehow those morons never think about how we're supposed to EAT that shit with the plant afterwards. Or our animals, which we then eat, which results in the same.

      Yeah, let's spray our food with the worst poison we can find! AND infect them with bacteria. Oh, and why not shit where we eat and fuck up the same planet we fuckin' live on!
      Because we're SO /smart/ animals! Especially in "not harmful if you don't believe in it" America.

    18. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by khallow · · Score: 1

      Ok, so what's supposed to be terrifying about it? A parasite that promptly kills its food source and has no notable survival or propagation advantage is supposed to be bad why?

      Bacteria are naturally genetically modified organisms due to their routine ability to swap genetic material with complete different bacteria species. If it were that easy and advantageous to kill most plants on Earth, some bacteria would have figured it out by now.

    19. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

      How do you know it's not sustainable ?

      Not knowing the future has nothing to do with sustainable agriculture.

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    20. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously? What's wrong with using nitrogen fixing plants to fill the soil with nitrogen?

      The set of nitrogen fixing plants and the set of useful plants have a pretty tiny overlap (I think it's just beans but I am not a farmer).

      This process if successful would mean that all useful plants can be made nitrogen fixing plants, thus rendering crop rotation as a practice obsolete. Farmers would be able to grow whatever plant was most in demand in any field. This would potentially be a significant boon to efficiency at the macro level (crop production can more closely match demand).

      In some climates it may also make the process of growing useful crops less energy intensive as you no longer need to support the few useful nitrogen fixers artificially in order to regenerate the soil.

    21. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by RevDisk · · Score: 1

      Except sustainable practices alone won't feed everyone on the planet.

      Unless you want to repurpose a substantial amount of the workforce back into agriculture, dramatically increase land for farming (terraforming, bulldozing houses or chopping down forests are your only choices), dramatically raise the price of food,etc. Most farmers do use crop rotation and other sustainable tricks, but also use chemical fertilizers and other "nonsustainable" choices. You do realize that the majority of chemical fertilizers are made from atmospheric nitrogen, right?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process

      Hopefully farming practices continue to advance. But the organic only, "sustainable" only, no GMO, etc crowd tends not to want to advance farming, but take it back to yeoman level tech. Which is not sustainable unless you dramatically decrease the number of humans on the planet.

    22. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by imikem · · Score: 1

      Look at that. Amdahl's law applies to plants!

      --
      Perscriptio in manibus tabellariorum est.
    23. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by dywolf · · Score: 1

      because fixing nitrogen into soil via crop plants is more productive than fixing it via non-crop plants and having to wait a year.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    24. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's complete bullshit. Plants only use as much nutrient as they need. Anything else is waste and too much will throw off the pH and cause the plant to not be able to take up nutrients properly. Which then looks like a deficiency. Then amateurs throw more fertilizer at it exasperating the problem.

    25. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by ROMRIX · · Score: 1

      Say if it somehow crossbreeds with plant eating/killing bacteria? = End of all plant life?

    26. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by afidel · · Score: 2

      Around here Soybeans are used much more than Alfalfa, but according to this paper they should be doing corn soybean and alfalfa in rotation, it returns $245 per acre on average versus $95 per acre for just corn/soybean.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    27. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by Agent0013 · · Score: 2

      Except sustainable practices alone won't feed everyone on the planet.

      Most farmers do use crop rotation and other sustainable tricks, but also use chemical fertilizers and other "nonsustainable" choices.

      Hopefully farming practices continue to advance. But the organic only, "sustainable" only, no GMO, etc crowd tends not to want to advance farming, but take it back to yeoman level tech. Which is not sustainable unless you dramatically decrease the number of humans on the planet.

      Perhaps you don't know what sustainable means. If you are not using sustainable practices then you will not be able to continue to grow food. Non-sustainable means you cannot continue the same process. If you run out of ways to grow food because you used up all the resources in the soil then the price of food will get very expensive and many people will starve to death.

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
  6. Great, now what about phosphorous? by PeterM+from+Berkeley · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Plants need phosphorous almost as much as they need nitrogen. Currently, we're using mined sources of phosphorous as fertilizer--and there is a finite supply of really good phosphorous sources.

    Potassium (the third major plant nutrient) we can extract from seawater without any problems, but the seawater concentration of phosphorous is much lower.

    So what do we do about phosphorous?

    --PeterM

    1. Re:Great, now what about phosphorous? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well we can start by getting rid of cemetaries and graveyards, and stop cremating people. Definitely stop embalming them. Dead animal bodies are an excellent source of phosphorus as well as many other fertilizers, and lots of people die every single day.

    2. Re: Great, now what about phosphorous? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does that mean when saying grace they should thank grandpa for making their vegetables grow better and more delicious?

    3. Re:Great, now what about phosphorous? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So what do we do about phosphorous?

      Better recycle our own piss.

    4. Re:Great, now what about phosphorous? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you realize that that is just a step away from Soilen Green!

    5. Re:Great, now what about phosphorous? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Phosphorus is what matters for runoff, NOT nitrogen. Nitrogen is plentiful in surface water, it is phosphorus that causes algae blooms and dead areas.

      Limiting or completely stopping phosphorus runoff is the only answer.

      Of course you are correct with potassium. Potassium mines are generally in areas of old, evaporated seas.

      PS. This is all old information. Research was done more than a decades ago at ELA,

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_Lakes_Area

    6. Re:Great, now what about phosphorous? by bosef1 · · Score: 1

      Wasn't that mentioned in "Brave New World". Didn't they have special filters on the chimneys at the crematoria for capturing the phosphorous and calcium for fertilizer?

    7. Re:Great, now what about phosphorous? by gagol · · Score: 1

      I would like it better to be eaten (by proxy) than being used to grow grass... Please bury me under a garden when I die.

      --
      Tomorrow is another day...
    8. Re: Great, now what about phosphorous? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      I'm _pretty_ sure that we could devise a safe way to extract phosphorous from dead bodies. Maybe science wasn't up to that task when we "evolved", but it certainly is by now.

      Also, we "evolved" bathing in our drinking water supply.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    9. Re:Great, now what about phosphorous? by gagol · · Score: 1

      I remember a lot from the book and movie, but not that detail. Sound more like a F451 thing than BNW... I may well be wrong though.

      --
      Tomorrow is another day...
    10. Re:Great, now what about phosphorous? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      I prefer: Chopped then frozen into manageable blocks. Then taken deep sea fishing and used as chum while my friends drink, talk shit about me and fish.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    11. Re:Great, now what about phosphorous? by gagol · · Score: 1

      That is also an acceptable outcome, as long as people I care about benefits form my chemicals when I don't need them and have some good time with them.

      --
      Tomorrow is another day...
    12. Re:Great, now what about phosphorous? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      I just hope nobody pulls my junk out of the ocean on a hook.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    13. Re: Great, now what about phosphorous? by redneckmother · · Score: 1

      I'm _pretty_ sure that we could devise a safe way to extract phosphorous from dead bodies. Maybe science wasn't up to that task when we "evolved", but it certainly is by now.

      Also, we "evolved" bathing in our drinking water supply.

      Ahh, phosphorus pentoxide...wait - what? Why am I having a flashback to Burgess' "The Wanting Seed"?

    14. Re:Great, now what about phosphorous? by gagol · · Score: 1

      Once dead, it is the last thing that would bother me...

      --
      Tomorrow is another day...
    15. Re:Great, now what about phosphorous? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I remember reading "Life's Bottleneck" by Issac Asimov. He calculates that if life expands and uses the elements in the entire crust of the earth, the phosphorus will be exhausted first, before carbon, nitrogen, or even trace elements like iodine and selenium. Phosphorus is life's bottleneck.

      But there is a big difference between fertilizing with phosphorus and nitrogen. You only need to add phosphorus once, and then only enough annually to replace what is taken out with the crop, which is usually not much. It is a permanent addition to the soil. But the nitrogen is consumed and returned to the atmosphere as the plants grow and then decay. You need to replenish it every year, either with fertilizer or legumes.

    16. Re:Great, now what about phosphorous? by timeOday · · Score: 1
      It's rather early to worry about recycling humans. The US produces 92 billion lbs of meat per year, which is 294 lbs for every American every year, which means you (on average) will be responsible for the production of over 100 times your body weight in animals throughout your life. And for that matter you excrete far more phosphorous during your life than you contain when you die. Animal agriculture manure is a primary source of nitrogen and phosphorus to surface and groundwater.

      The fact is we have scarcely even started to recycle, or for that matter avoid producing waste in the first place.

    17. Re:Great, now what about phosphorous? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get it from sewage treatment plants. It is the only sustainable solution.

    18. Re:Great, now what about phosphorous? by telchine · · Score: 1

      Sound more like a F451 thing than BNW... I may well be wrong though

      I'm in the middle of reading it and the OP is right, they removed the phosphorus from cremated bodies for fertilizer in Brave New World.

      I remember a lot from the book and movie, but not that detail.

      Maybe the Ministry of Truth got to your copy and put that part of the book in a memory hole?

    19. Re:Great, now what about phosphorous? by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      So what do we do about phosphorous?

      Start looking for a solution...?

      Are you seriously suggesting we don't do this because it only removes one of the three ingredients of artificial fertilizer?

      --
      No sig today...
    20. Re:Great, now what about phosphorous? by delt0r · · Score: 1

      Don't throw away shit. Its got what plants crave.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    21. Re:Great, now what about phosphorous? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We can mine our pee.

    22. Re:Great, now what about phosphorous? by hawkfish · · Score: 1

      I remember reading "Life's Bottleneck" by Issac Asimov. He calculates that if life expands and uses the elements in the entire crust of the earth, the phosphorus will be exhausted first, before carbon, nitrogen, or even trace elements like iodine and selenium. Phosphorus is life's bottleneck.

      But there is a big difference between fertilizing with phosphorus and nitrogen. You only need to add phosphorus once, and then only enough annually to replace what is taken out with the crop, which is usually not much. It is a permanent addition to the soil. But the nitrogen is consumed and returned to the atmosphere as the plants grow and then decay. You need to replenish it every year, either with fertilizer or legumes.

      Except that phosphorous doesn't stay in the soil - it becomes runoff. See here or here.

      --
      You will not drink with us, but you would taste our steel? - Walter Matthau, The Pirates
    23. Re: Great, now what about phosphorous? by quintus_horatius · · Score: 1

      thousands of years of evolution have taught us not to bury dead people in the garden.

      I don't think evolution had anything to do with that, and there's nothing intrinsically wrong with burying people in the garden. Europeans used to surround their churches with graves, with few ill effects to the people attending the church.

      We bury or cremate our dead for sanitary reasons, but I think we confine our corpses to cemeteries for cultural reasons.

    24. Re:Great, now what about phosphorous? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the plants crave electrolytes?

    25. Re:Great, now what about phosphorous? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Recycle your urine as plant fertilizer - the Chinese have been doing this for millenia.

  7. The end of nitrogen fertilizer? Fewer bombs? by PeterM+from+Berkeley · · Score: 1

    If no plant needs nitrogen fertilizer, does this mean that we can stop producing ammonium nitrate and other nitrates in huge quantities, many of which can be used to make explosives?

    Does this mean we could realistically reduce the availability of now-common bomb-making materials?

    --PeterM

    1. Re: The end of nitrogen fertilizer? Fewer bombs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no. it doesn't come remotely close, but don't let that stop you from not learning shit about common materials, just jump to another liberal mind bending ideal.
      wait till the warm mongers getta hola dis.

  8. SHE'S A BITCH! by get+quad · · Score: 1
    --
    "To err is human, to mod Funny divine."
  9. Now all we need is a bazillion immigrant labourers by msobkow · · Score: 2

    Now all we need is a bazillion immigrant labourers to run around the fields with syringes injecting plants.

    Let me know if they ever figure out how to apply this bacteria to seed before planting or spraying after sprouting. Then they'll have something worth talking about.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  10. Could be a revolution, could be a fizzle by Guppy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If the claims are true (60% of a plant's nitrogen requirements, adaptable to most crops), this is absolutely huge. All the research on how legumes manage their symbiotic organisms seemed to point to a long, hard slog in adapting nitrogen fixation to other crops, and now here it is from a naturally occurring organism.

    But before I break out the champagne, I'm going to ask whereisthefuckingpaper?

    1. Re:Could be a revolution, could be a fizzle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [...] I'm going to ask whereisthefuckingpaper?

      Behind some kind of paywall if even released, of course. Be happy being able to watch their news video nitrogen_bacteria.mp4

  11. Re:Now all we need is a bazillion immigrant labour by wierd_w · · Score: 1

    Insects.

    Specifically, you release sap sucking insects that like to stuff their sharp little noses deep into the tissues of green plants already, such as aphids.

    Cross the nitrogen fixating bacteria with wolbachia parasite, so that it can live in both hosts, and watch the plants take over.

  12. Re:Now all we need is a bazillion immigrant labour by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The process that Cocking developed, based on his discovery, is known as N-Fix. It involves covering seeds in a non-toxic coating that contains the bacterium.

  13. Re:Now all we need is a bazillion immigrant labour by Jayfar · · Score: 5, Informative

    Let me know if they ever figure out how to apply this bacteria to seed before planting or spraying after sprouting. Then they'll have something worth talking about.

    Er, that's exactly what is disussed in TFA:

    "The process that Cocking developed, based on his discovery, is known as N-Fix. It involves covering seeds in a non-toxic coating that contains the bacterium. As a seed sprouts and the plant grows, the bacterium enters through its roots, and ultimately ends up in every cell of the plant. This means that every one of those cells is capable of fixing nitrogen from the atmosphere – just like sugarcane does."

  14. Re:Now all we need is a bazillion immigrant labour by wierd_w · · Score: 2

    For those too lazy:

    Wolbachia is a genus of parasitical/symbiotic micro-organisms that infect arthropods, including most insects

    Many species of insect that have intimate contact with plants and plant juices harbor this parasite. including aphids

    Now, asking if that is "a good idea" or not? That's an entirely different question!

  15. Potential Dangerous Footing? by NEDHead · · Score: 1

    If the ground gets all full of nitrogen, won't we just sink into it?

    1. Re:Potential Dangerous Footing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, soil is full of denitrifying bacteria that conver amonia, nitrate, and nitrate back into a diatomomic gas.

    2. Re:Potential Dangerous Footing? by artfulshrapnel · · Score: 1

      What? Is this a troll comment?

      Okay, key point: the form of Nitrogen that we're talking about generating here is not the gaseous sort. It's "fixed" nitrogen which I believe is mostly in the form of ammonia. Urea, commonly found in various animal feces, is also a convenient source widely used by the agricultural industry. It is also generated by bacteria but under different circumstances. (In your butt and/or intestines depending on how childish you want to be...)

      Nitrogen is also the most abundant component of air, so even if we were talking about the gaseous sort we wouldn't need to worry: worms, ants and other tunneling insects already infiltrate the ground with (~70%) gaseous nitrogen already. If you've ever visited a relatively lush un-farmed field when it was damp and noticed how much the ground sinks under your feet? That's your weight squishing the air (which is mostly nitrogen) out of the ground. It isn't a threat at all in that sense.

  16. Guano by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's where we use to get it and the supply is possibly limitless.

    We just found it more efficient/cheaper to mine the rock concentrations. If they run out, we go back to the guano.

    1. Re:Guano by delt0r · · Score: 1

      Guano is a long long way from limitless. We (NZ) mined 100s of thousands of years worth in a few decades.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
  17. Re:The end of nitrogen fertilizer? Fewer bombs? by iggymanz · · Score: 1

    No, that's a silly reason to ban anything, because most anything can be used to make an explosive quite easily and trivially. Look around, your cotton or hemp or silk or synthentic clothing; plastics; wood products; metals like iron, aluminum, copper, zinc, lead, graphite; the various basic chemicals like soap, window wash, drain opener; the acidic things like car battery acid, vinegar, muriatic acid; the "chlorine" powder for your swimming pool; hydrocarbons from paraffin to coal to liquid fuels and hydraulic oils to natural gas; catalysts like the platinum in your car's catalytic converter .......all can be used to make powerful explosives.

    it's nonsense, to say we can ban ingredients for explosives. It's even more silly than saying we can ban the ingredients for making booze.

  18. Re:Now all we need is a bazillion immigrant labour by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You wouldn't want to stab every single wheat stalk in a field, but for anything like, say, orchards, with lasting plants, one injection could provide a hundred years worth of productivity.

  19. Quick! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1.Patent it
    2.Spread it
    3.Sue everybody on the planet and beyond
    4.???
    5.Profit!

    1. Re:Quick! by gmanterry · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What if this thing gets out of hand and plants start to become larger as they are fed more nitrogen. We could become overrun with weed type plants that we can't control. Almost everything has unintended consequences. From the laws made in Congress to the modification of plants.

      --
      Since when is "public safety" the root password to the Constitution?
    2. Re:Quick! by icebike · · Score: 2

      Weed Whackers and mowers will still work.
      World Food shortage solved.
      Bigger healthier plants consume more CO2.
      Worlds problems solved... hugs and kisses all around.

      And besides this was discovered in Europe, so its automatically safe. (/snort).

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    3. Re:Quick! by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh god, we already are! (It's called grass.)

      A little more seriously, they're doing field trials now, so we'll probably know soon enough.

      As far as I can tell, the process is clumsy enough (the seeds have to be pre-impregnated in the lab with the bacteria) that this is a rather small risk.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    4. Re:Quick! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, let us sit in our caves and not even come out, or draw on walls... who knows what will happen, so we must do nothing, revert back to sticks and stones, or tooth and nail even better!

    5. Re:Quick! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If that happens, then presumably the plants will suck more carbon out of the air and fix global warming. So that's still an advantage.

      The other advantage, obviously, is that we get to live in a lush green jungle of giant ferns and stuff, like in Avatar.

    6. Re:Quick! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you a russian, paid by Putin to spread hate propaganda?

    7. Re:Quick! by dbIII · · Score: 4, Funny

      We could become overrun with weed type plants that we can't control.

      No problem, we'll just dock the stings and then sit back to watch the free light show in the sky.
      Did it just get dark in here?

    8. Re:Quick! by ATMAvatar · · Score: 2
      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    9. Re:Quick! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except for the damn triffids...

    10. Re:Quick! by klingers48 · · Score: 1

      Sadly, there's no ??? step in that process.

    11. Re:Quick! by symbolset · · Score: 1

      Oh, sure. What could possibly go wrong?

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    12. Re:Quick! by Joce640k · · Score: 2

      Triffids!

      --
      No sig today...
    13. Re:Quick! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watch "Sleeper" by Woody Allen http://youtu.be/VfrShu_Lp2A

    14. Re:Quick! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Goats will still work too!

    15. Re:Quick! by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      Oh, sure. What could possibly go wrong?

      foresting sahara? 10 feet tigers are a small price to pay for that!

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    16. Re:Quick! by BluBrick · · Score: 2

      foresting sahara? 10 feet tigers are a small price to pay for that!

      Are you insane? Man, tigers are bad enough with only 4 feet! Imagine the carnage they might wreak with an extra 6 feet. No, I fear 10 feet tigers are far too high a price to pay regardless of the benefits.

      --
      Ahh - My eye!
      The doctor said I'm not supposed to get Slashdot in it!
    17. Re:Quick! by dywolf · · Score: 1

      Sea water.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    18. Re:Quick! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Triffids are an extremely beneficial species. They naturally produce an oil substitute making them very valuable for domestication. They are only really a potential danger to maybe a blind person.

    19. Re:Quick! by SandFrog · · Score: 1

      Hal Clement The Nitrogen Fix
      ISBN 0-441-58117-X

      --
      Contentment is the greatest wealth
      - Sukhavagga Dhammapada
      Contentment is the goal behind all goals.
    20. Re:Quick! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I, for one, welcome our new 10 footed Panthera Tigris overlords.

    21. Re:Quick! by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      No problem, we'll just bring back some Jurassic herbivores.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    22. Re:Quick! by Migraineman · · Score: 1

      Worst case? Sentient plants growin' across interstellar space (a la "Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors.")

    23. Re:Quick! by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      What if this thing gets out of hand and plants start to become larger as they are fed more nitrogen. We could become overrun with weed type plants that we can't control.

      The plants would grow bigger ... until they start to run short of the next limiting nutrient. As a "for instance", maybe phosphorus? There is a reason that the commonest type of fertilizer is described as "NPK" - because it provides nitrogen (possibly fixed here, if you like that sort of pun), phosphorus and potassium, all often limiting nutrients in intensive agriculture.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  20. All these so called advances. by ralphaostrander · · Score: 0

    Somehow make my food prices go up and up. Pressure canning is back for a reason. And I think it is theft.

    1. Re:All these so called advances. by Anarchduke · · Score: 1

      Scientific advances don't make your food prices go up. Massive greed makes your food prices go up.

      --
      who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
    2. Re:All these so called advances. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because oil prices have exploded, oil being required to produce crops in mass. In addition 10-15% of land being repouposed to fuel crops doesn't help any.

    3. Re:All these so called advances. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      If you live in the USA, then you might like to ask your elected representatives in the Federal Government why they decided that removing the restrictions on speculation in commodities markets such as food was a good idea. Speculators used to be limited to a certain fraction of the market, to provide liquidity for the other players, now they are the dominant market force.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:All these so called advances. by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      Modern farming practices burn 10 calories of petro-chemical energy to get 1 calorie of food energy --- at the very least, we should mandate that all farming of bio-fuels be done using equipment powered by sustainable energy sources.

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
  21. Which planets, exactly? by simonbp · · Score: 3, Funny

    There are only four known objects with nitrogen atmospheres: Earth (already terraformed by microbes), Titan (surface temperature -220 C), Triton and Pluto (surface pressure ~10 microbars). The only two terraforming targets are Mars and (at a stretch) Venus, both of which have almost zero nitrogen in their atmospheres.

    This is either a critical research failure, or hyping up a somewhat boring discovery to a more exciting one, or both.

    1. Re:Which planets, exactly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plants, not planets. Plants.

    2. Re:Which planets, exactly? by black3d · · Score: 1

      While I too read "planets" at first glance after the context of "colonize", this is about plants, not planets.

      --
      "The true measure of a person is how they act when they know they won't get caught." - DSRilk
    3. Re:Which planets, exactly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are only four known objects with nitrogen atmospheres: Earth (already terraformed by microbes), Titan (surface temperature -220 C), Triton and Pluto (surface pressure ~10 microbars). The only two terraforming targets are Mars and (at a stretch) Venus, both of which have almost zero nitrogen in their atmospheres.

      This is either a critical research failure, or hyping up a somewhat boring discovery to a more exciting one, or both.

      Lol

    4. Re:Which planets, exactly? by Ferrofluid · · Score: 1

      So you really went to all the trouble of typing that comment, which presumably included some quick fact-checking to get your numbers right, and you didn't bother to re-read the title? I mean, I know it's SOP by now to not read the article, and I guess reading the summary is getting passe these days. But you didn't even read the title?

      I guess from now on, we should just stop after reading the first three letters of the title, and base our comments off that. Or better yet, we should just skip the title and base our discussion on the submission's category icon.

    5. Re:Which planets, exactly? by Amouth · · Score: 1

      Or better yet, we should just skip the title and base our discussion on the submission's category icon.

      That might make moderating/meta-moderating a bit easier, at least we would have less variance in the results.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    6. Re:Which planets, exactly? by Amouth · · Score: 1

      According to my sig, you'd get a gold metal. :)

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
  22. Just what we need... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A common biological thread between every food supply on the planet.

    What's the worst that can happen?

    1. Re:Just what we need... by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      Well, not quite every, ISTR a news article about one nation in Central Asia (Burma/Myanmar?) legislating organic farming on a national scale, but not finding it (maybe the original was a poor translation?).

      Also, I don't think this will work w/ rice, so a major percentage of the world's food would be ``safe''.

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
  23. Re:The end of nitrogen fertilizer? Fewer bombs? by PeterM+from+Berkeley · · Score: 1

    Yes, but can you buy all of that stuff in really large quantities without making people suspicious? And I doubt any of them are really as simple+effective+safe as your nitrogen-based explosives.

    --PM

  24. Article subtley misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's (very) probably the journalist's fault, but the summary and the article have taken the sentence below completely out of context.

    Unfortunately, most commercial crops need the fertilizer, because it provides the nitrogen that they require to survive

    Now, it's quite true that plants (in general) require nitrogen to survive, grow well and reproduce. But, the crops don't need fertiliser to provide nitrogen. If that were true then plants would not have existed before fertiliser was "invented". No, the main reason that fertiliser is required is that the soils have been depleted of nitrogen through bad land management practices -- over-cropping, erosion, not rotating crops, exposure of the soil to high temperature/light, the death of soil fungi, microflora, bacteria, etc, etc, etc. I.e. The methods of (most methods and implementation of) modern agrigulture on a large scale destroys natural processes or organisms that help take nitrogen from the atmosphere into the soil and/or processes that make nitrogen in the soil available for uptake and use by the crop/plants.

    With different land management methods it is entirely possible for commercial crops to not need (artificial) fertiliser.

    To me this seems like a band-aid that could -- potentially -- encourage even worse farming/agricultural methods. It might encourage the destruction of more rainforest (in rainforests most of the nutrients are held within the plants, trees, shrubs, lianas, etc themselves rather than in the soil, so land that was previously inhabited by rainforest generally has poor soil nutrient levels); if a quick-fix coat-your-seed-with-magic solution exists that will allow crops to flourish in otherwise unsuitable soils then won't someone get the notion that "hey we couldn't grow shit here in the past, but now we can! Money! Stuff the rainforests, let's get rid of it and plant tobacco. The conditions that stopped us in the past (i.e. poor yield) no longer apply. We're rich!" and... ?

  25. All nitrogen comes from the atmosphere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All nitrogen in soil (well, just about all) and then into plants comes from the atmosphere anyway!

  26. There is no such thing as a free lunch. by InterGuru · · Score: 1

    The bacteria gets its energy from sugar in the plant. How much sugar? How much does it decrease the plant's yield.

    1. Re:There is no such thing as a free lunch. by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

      I've had a free lunch before.

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
  27. The Celery Stalks at Midnight by Culture20 · · Score: 1

    Just what we need zombie plants controlled by symbiotic bacteria like in I Am Legend.

  28. Sounds very bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We are going to use this bacteria on all or most of our crops. So this bacteria will be wide spread in the enviorment. The bacteria can grow in most plants so it is likely to spread to other plants. Natural plant communities have evolved with some plants using nitrogen and other plants producing nitrogen usable by themselves and the non nitrogen producing plants. Plants that were limited by lack of nitrogen would no longer be limited. A very high degree of disruption of natural communities seems likely. This doesn't seem to occur in sugar cane producing areas so maybe it's OK. But please test this carefully before it is introduced widely.

    1. Re:Sounds very bad by biodata · · Score: 1

      Very good point, there will almost certainly be casualties.

      --
      Korma: Good
  29. Does the bacteria know... by Mister+Liberty · · Score: 1

    ...that we have an interest in the plant?

  30. Re:The end of nitrogen fertilizer? Fewer bombs? by iggymanz · · Score: 1

    what makes you think anything needs to be bought? you missed the point totally. reagents can't be banned because they're everywhere in abundant supply. for example, you mentioned the nitrogen-based explosives. The road to those can start with a barrel of piss

  31. Is cremation a problem? by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 2

    Well we can start by getting rid of cemetaries and graveyards, and stop cremating people.

    Um... apropos of nothing, how does cremation affect the phosphorus content?

  32. This is potentially huge by Billy+the+Mountain · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Ammonia is the second only to petrochemical production and 83% goes to fertilizer. If the bacteria can replace most requirements for nitrogen fertilizer this will drastically reduce reliance on energy for agriculture, especially the reducing natural gas that is converted to hydrogen to make Ammonia

    --
    That was the turning point of my life--I went from negative zero to positive zero.
  33. Invasive species by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 1

    Okay, I'll be the first to ask:

    How is the dispersion of these bacteria controlled? Will the bacteria spread to other plants, such as weeds? Will they be spread by air-borne reproductive means? (Not that food crops use dandelions tufts, but you know what I mean - pollen or seeds blown around by the wind.)

    Will these be the 3-d equivalent of Bolivian Tree Lizards?

    I'm all for scientific progress and not a big fan of Jeremy Rifkin, but he serves an important purpose by voicing concerns and making people stop to consider some of the larger ramifications.

    Let's not stop the research, but I really think we should do some environmental impact studies.

  34. three BILLION pounds by raymorris · · Score: 4, Informative

    Currently about three billion pounds of KNO3 are made each year. Suppose the researcher's hopes come true and that is cut in half. That would mean only 1,500,000,000 pounds would be on the market each year. Of course, it's not just used for fertilizer, there are many other uses. But if you did replace all those other uses, there would only be enough KNO3 to make ten million bombs per year. Of course, horse stables are full of it, too - stale urine is potassium nitrate.

    You know why you can't take liquids on airplanes? Hydrogen peroxide and nail polish remover. If you mix the two correctly, you get a VERY powerful explosive . (If you mix them incorrectly you get dead. Don't try it. It's a great explosive for SUICIDE bombers.)

    Another frequently used and powerful explosive is aluminium powder. Yep, ground up tinfoil. Don't try that at home either, it might blow up while you're grinding it. Adding Parlon can help. Parlon is also known as Saran Wrap.

    Grind up ping pong balls, that modern gunpowder, called smokeless powder.

    So you see, to make any progress by banning stuff you would need to ban half the stuff in the grocery store. Oh, and don't forget to ban livestock, so everyone would have to be vegetarian. ( remember, where animals piss, potassium nitrate crystallizes.)

    1. Re:three BILLION pounds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why is this not rated funny?

      Aluminum powder spontaneously exploding..?

    2. Re:three BILLION pounds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go back to chemistry-class? Aluminum powder + H2O = bad...
      The thing is if you combine aluminum with water you get hydrogen...

      In dust-form it can flame up or explode.... Basically it starts a 'dust-explosion' but where you have an addition of hydrogen created from the moist air and aluminium..... If memory serves me the temerature-raise from the burning hydrogen will accelerate production of more...

      Quite a few things needs to line up for this to happen, but it's still a quite real risk... so just don't do it.... If you need aluminum powder then go to the closest hardware-store or hobby-store where you wont risk burning off your face.

  35. I swear I read it as "planet" and not "plant" by lgordon · · Score: 1

    So when do we start terraforming?

  36. Breathe in the aaair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if they were to use this on a massive scale could that significantly change the composition of the air we breath, causing potential health problems / demise of life on earth? im not a biochemist but I do know we evolved with certain amount of N present in the atmosphere...i hope they know what theyre doing

    1. Re:Breathe in the aaair by jabuzz · · Score: 2

      Surface area of a sphere 4*pi*r^2, so for the earth that comes to 5.10e14 square metres. The pressure at the surface on average is 1.01325e5 Pa. Using the fact that pressure is force time area, and that force is mass time acceleration, then the mass of a one square meter of the earths atmosphere assuming acceleration due to gravity is 9.8m/s^2 is 1.033e5 kg. That makes the mass of the atmosphere 5.268e15 metric tones, at 78% nitrogen that makes ~4113 trillion metric tonnes of nitrogen.

      For comparison the world wheat production in 2012 was 704 million metric tonnes or 0.000017% of the atmospheric nitrogen.

      The chances of this being able to significantly change the composition of the atmosphere are close to zero. You need to understand the scale at which the world and the wider universe works.

  37. Oh, PLANT, not PLANET. by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

    Now I'm all disappointed and stuff.

  38. Triffids by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 2

    The plants can kill us off now, watch our for your cucumbers and geraniums.

    It's the triffids you really need to be careful of.

  39. Endosymbiosis? by Michael+Woodhams · · Score: 2

    According to the article, the bacteria will live within the plant's cells. This is certainly possible (such endosymbiosis was the origin of mitochondria and chloroplasts) but I do wonder whether it is really the case here, or if the reporter made an error.

    If it does work as well as claimed (I'm always a bit skeptical about these 'amazing new tech' claims) then expect a whole lot of effort to go into breeding new plant varieties that get the most out of their new symbiont.

    --
    Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
  40. This was on Gizmag two days ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where have you been? Late again, as usual.

  41. Re:Now all we need is a bazillion immigrant labour by msobkow · · Score: 1

    I didn't even *skim* the article. :P

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  42. Nitrogen-fixing bacteria, not nitrogen fixing... by Moskit · · Score: 1

    It is BACTERIA that fixes nitrogen.
    NOT NITROGEN that fixes bacteria.

    Are there any editors around?

  43. Now, just *what* could *possibly* go wrong!!????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the subject says it all ...

    tho it omits references to bio catastrophes from this 'all plant' vulnerability...

    we should be afraid .. very afraid ....

  44. Phosporous - Dynamic Accumulators by AttillaTheNun · · Score: 1

    Make use of the phosphorous that is already present in deeper soils. Plant dynamic accumulators that cycle nutrients such as phosphorous from their roots to their surface as companion plants to your crops.
    Check out the dynamic accumulator list in the following:
    http://www.nsfarming.com/Media/KOURICK_Soil_Indicators_86.pdf

    Another option: include bird-attracting plants or feeders. Their manure is rich in many nutrients, including phosphorous.

  45. Is this actually new? by g1powermac · · Score: 2

    I've read the article and have researched this before for my own farm. There are products already on the market that seem to do what the article talks about so I'm not really sure that this is anything new. However, if they are using Azotobacter bacteria, I'm curios how they are making it symbiotic as it generally isn't.

  46. Permaculture Already Does This by AttillaTheNun · · Score: 1

    We don't need to develop this in a lab. It is already being done in many plants and used as a strategy for sustainable soil development.

    Here's how:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMQ8eSm92xQ

  47. Copyright: The alder tree by Skvate · · Score: 1

    This sounds something like the alder tree does: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alder#Nitrogen_fixation Probably other plants that does this also.

  48. Re:Now all we need is a bazillion immigrant labour by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Read the article. They coat the seeds.

  49. I for one... by flibbidyfloo · · Score: 1

    This is great news! Until the bacteria evolve to colonize humans!

    I, for one, welcome our new nitrogen fixing overlords.

  50. Re:Now all we need is a bazillion immigrant labour by pakar · · Score: 1

    Hmm.. did not the article say that they needed to treat the seeds before planting them??

  51. Re:Now all we need is a bazillion immigrant labour by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

    It saddens me that this is the only post where "bacterium" is used properly in the singular context, rather than the plural "bacteria".