Sprint May Have Unlimited Data Plans, But Not Unlimited Customers

mitcheli writes "Sprint announced a Q2 loss of $1.6B as 2 million subscribers left their service. While Sprint remains one of very few carriers to continue to allow unlimited data on their networks, the failure to reconcile two competing network technologies (iDEN Nextel and CDMA Sprint) combined with the lack of upgrades to their network and degrading service prompted a mass exodus of subscribers from their network. Of course the fact that during the iPhone 5 release, Sprint openly advertised that their iPhone would not be carrier locked, only to turn around and push out an OTA two months later that locked them probably didn't help much either."

Comments

Carrier Lock Not That Big An Issue

[adisakp]

While slashdot users may like to complain about carrier locking, your average US consumer doesn't really care. Why?

Because they typically get a discounted or free phone that locks them into a 2 year contract anyhow. And by the time 2 years are up, they want a new phone anyhow.

Lack of upgrades?

[afidel]

Sprint's in the middle of a complete network overhaul (called network vision) that will bring LTE to almost every cell site by the end of 2014 while significantly upgrading both the antenna's and backhaul at most locations bringing better coverage and better speeds. It hasn't gone nearly as quickly as Sprint's original timetable laid out, but they're less than 6 months behind that fairly aggressive timetable. I know I come off sounding like fanboi but it really annoys me when people can't get their facts straight and use that lack of knowledge to tear down one of the last hopes we have for real competition in the cellphone market in the US. Not only does Sprint compete against the big boys but by being friendly to MVNO's they foster new concepts that help to drive down costs (see Virgin Mobile (now part of Sprint) and Republic Wireless for examples).

Re:Lack of upgrades?

[dietdew7]

They haven't done a good job of informing their customers of the upgrades. I've used Sprint for over 4 years and paid for unlimited data and 4G access. Unfortunately they don't have 4G anywhere near me so I've paid for something I can't use. It also seems that 3G service has declined in the last six months, slower spotty coverage. Unless I'm on WiFi my phone is frustratingly useless.

Re:Lack of upgrades?

[wjcofkc]

Until recently, I supported smartphones at Sprint. As a consequence, I had a front row seat to the Network Vision rollout from both the strictly corporate perspective as well as from the perspective of access to a wealth of robust network analysis tools. I can tell you that it is happening as quickly as is possible. One problem for LTE rollouts regarding all carriers is the simple fact that no one predicted that all of a sudden 200+ countries would suddenly start ordering massive amounts of LTE equipment from the very few companies that sell it... so there is a run LTE equipment which has been a speed bump. However, the Network Vision rollout has a lot more going on than just the LTE rollout but I don't have time get into that. Personally, I just got Sprint LTE in my area and regularly get 30+ down and 8 - 10 up. Not bad. One thing that has been confusing for customers is the difference between Sprint's 4G WiMax and LTE. A lot of customers currently getting great WiMax coverage are buying LTE phones in areas that don't have LTE yet, not realizing there is a difference (stores should explain this better), consequently they go from 8 - 10 down and 2 - 4 up to 3g, when they call up and find out what has happened from me (formerly), it's usually too late to take the phone back at which point they get understandably upset, pay their ETF, and go to another carrier. There are other complexities as well. Also, I have a good friend who works at T-Mobile and the way they are selling phones and service now really is a sweat deal to the point I might make the switch. However, it also needs to be said that Sprint has adopted a very similar model that is taking place as a pilot program in limited areas and through stores only. I think a lot of the reason they are shedding customers is due to their aggressive marketing for 4G LTE and unlimited data. A whole lot of the country has yet to have their 4G LTE switched on, and no one cares about unlimited data over 3g, so it is kind of misleading. Another part of the problem is the way they advertise the number of cities that now have LTE, the thing there is that they are concentrating their rollouts primarily in very small towns which is an artificial way of inflating their numbers - which is also confusing for customers. Basically their rollout is on schedule but their dubious ahead-of-time marketing is killing them.

Adios, Sprint

[TheNinjaroach]

I used Sprint for over 10 years, always with "unlimited" data and texting. That same service over doubled in cost during that 10 year timeframe. They never once updated coverage in my area. One time last year I was stranded in the center of downtown Dayton, Ohio and couldn't even get a signal to make a call!

Shitty reception, shitty prices, shitty customer service, shitty marketing, Sprint is just shitty all the way around.

The price isn't that great anymore

[jjhall]

When I switched to Sprint from AT&T, it was nearly half the price for 2 "smart" phones with data and one "feature" phone. Sure Sprint's coverage was nowhere near as good, but for the price difference it was worth it since it worked OK in most of the places I was at anyway. Over time their signal quality has not improved, actually I'd say it's degraded quite a bit, and their pricing has gone up. If I were to renew my contract on the plans they offer today, I'd be within $10 per month of Verizon's plans with the amount of data we actually use. Add to this the fact that Sprint doesn't have LTE in my area, yet they only offer new phones with LTE data, not the older WiMax 4G. I'd have to downgrade my data speed to "early upgrade" our phones, and they aren't offering any kind of discount until LTE is in place. They won't even give an estimate of when LTE will be available. I talked to a Sprint rep a couple of weeks ago and was told they have tower techs working in this area, but they were working on a 3G capacity expansion, not an LTE upgrade.

I've been with Sprint now for about 10 years, but unless something changes (in a big way) in the next 5 months before my contract runs out, I'm highly likely to be joining the mass exodus.

Re:t-mobile is the best low cost carrier

[alen]

nope, need to have an iphone and want a full GSM network so i can buy any GSM unlocked phone in the future

i have an iphone 5 i'm looking to keep for 3-4 years and every phone after that i'll pay full price and keep 3-4 years. no reason to upgrade every 1-2 years anymore

Unlimited means nothing if the network sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why I had to leave Sprint after many years of being a customer: degrading network, and a poorly handled network upgrade in my city.
Having an unlimited plan means nothing if you can't do a simple google search.
The final straw for me was one day when I was running errands all over the city, and kept trying to look up something online but couldn't get connected no matter where I was; at that point I had to ask myself what I was paying for anymore.

This is the difference between knowledge & mar

[rabtech]

Sprint has been weighed down by the horrible acquisition of Nextel. They were paying for two networks but only one network's worth of customers.

The loss of these subscribers was intentional and predicted well in advance as Sprint finally shutdown the Nextel platform. They already recaptured the more valuable customers onto the Sprint platform and made a strategic decision to let some go because the equipment fees and/or discounts made it unprofitable to keep them.

Part of the financial write downs was paying lease termination fees on backhaul and sites to shut down redundant Nextel locations. They won't ever post a quarter like this again; the Nextel bleeding has finally been stopped and their cost structure will only improve going forward. If you check the Sprint platform, they are still adding subscribers and revenue is up.

They have also closed the Clearwire deal, allowing them to move forward deploying 2.5Ghz spectrum but that won't really bear fruit until next year when handsets start shipping with support for those frequencies. Now that iDEN SMR 850Mhz is shut down, they can deploy the 3x3 LTE channel in that space which should make a huge diffence for indoor coverage. They have been planning this during Network Vision (their modernization effort that is running fiber to every tower along with LTE) to deploy the Nextel spectrum. All the newer handsets already support it, including the iPhone 5. At the newest upgraded towers they don't even have to roll a truck, the equipment is already installed and can even have the downtilt remotely adjusted.

They aren't stupid... Network Vision is running fiber to almost every tower with microwave bounces for the few that can't get it. The backhaul is all minimum 1Gbps, software upgradable, so they can just turn on more backhaul with a keystroke... The old network was all T1s, requiring a 4-6 week wait on the phone company. The new antennas are more sensitive, can be remotely tilted, and support more frequencies. The LTE gear is all software-upgradable to LTE-Advanced.

They had two major problems. LTE equipment wasn't ready prior to their must-build deadlines for the 2.5Ghz spectrum and they were severely hampered in capital spending due to the Nextel boat anchor. They foisted off the 2.5Ghz spectrum on some investors to help offset the cost and protect the spectrum, probably knowing WiMax was a dead end. Boost was a way to help offset the cost of iDEN with prepaid customers they could jettison later.

Now that SoftBank has solved the capital problem, they own the 2.5Ghz spectrum again, and they are rolling out fiber/LTE, they should be able to challenge the dualopoly on equal footing relatively soon. My city is one of the LTE launch markets and the difference between the old and new networks is night and day.

Once you understand these things, you realize that Sprint is a good play, albeit somewhat risky. The market just goes off headlines (often completely bogus ones, see every Apple story ever) and freaks out. Those are excellent buying opportunities if you understand what is really going on with a company.

Carrier locks suck, but who buys unlocked

[TheCastro1689]

Why pay more for an unlocked phone? So you aren't in a contract, they don't give you a discount on services. It makes no sense that they make a person with a locked or unlocked or out of contract phone pay the same amount. Make it worth my while and I'll bring my own phone to the game.

Re:Carrier locks suck, but who buys unlocked

[jittles]

Why pay more for an unlocked phone? So you aren't in a contract, they don't give you a discount on services. It makes no sense that they make a person with a locked or unlocked or out of contract phone pay the same amount. Make it worth my while and I'll bring my own phone to the game.

You can get an unlocked Nexus 4 for $300, sign up for T-mobile's $30/month unlimited data/texting (100 voice minutes), and save a ton of cash over Verizon/ATT/Sprint. Or if you want unlimited everything, it's $50 a month. Considering that I was at almost $100 a month with ATT and at $80 a month with Sprint, that $300 Nexus 4 would be paid off in 10 months with unlimited everything on T-mobile.

Re:t-mobile is the best low cost carrier

[93 Escort Wagon]

i have two LTE phones i use daily and the real speeds are a lot slower because most of the content is virtualized and clouded to the point where the source is a lot slower than LTE

This is the part a lot of people don't get. Once we got to 3G and 4G, the limiting factor often wasn't the mobile network anymore - it was the server at the other end.

But people love posting those screenshots from their speed test app that show 70Mbps...

Re:Why I left

[pixelpusher220]

I'm on my way out. 2 yr contract is up and unlimited data is nicely 'limited' by crappy data service. I live in VA right outside DC. Absolutely NO LTE service but if you look at the map, Baltimore has it, Fredricksburg (south) and the I-81 corridor have LTE, but not DC and it's suburbs. It's an amazing hole in coverage for what is supposed to be the best service.

It's absolutely ridiculous that they are upgrading multiple markets around the country and the nations capital is still getting a pittance. Even plain 4G service is quite spotty.

And all this at equivalent Verizon pricing. simply amazing

Re:t-mobile is the best low cost carrier

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

Caveat: As always, YMMV. I went over on my T-Mobile data a few months ago while at a conference. To my surprise even at 5GB I wasn't throttled. When I got back to my hometown I walked into one of their stores while my wife was shopping and asked them about it. The answer I got was that they reserve the right to throttle if you go over and that it's not an automatic thing. I have no idea if this is correct since in my experience salespeople are about as ill-informed as viewers of Fox News, but it is something to think about.

Do these numbers reflect Boost & Virgin Mobile

[ArhcAngel]

I haven't looked at the report so I don't know but since Sprint is the sole owner of both Boost and Virgin Mobile I'd be curious to know if their sales numbers are added in to Sprints total bottom line or if they are kept separate.

Re:t-mobile is the best low cost carrier

[charles2678]

Unlimited data (5GB at 4G speeds) on T-Mobile is $30/month, it's compatible with Nexus phone hardware, and I don't have to worry about getting kicked off for using too much. I know about Republic Wireless -- and very intentionally choose not to use them.

Re:t-mobile is the best low cost carrier

[bberens]

Try Straight talk. It's Wal-Mart's rebranded service provided by either T-Mobile or ATT (you choose which type of SIM you want). The tricky point is you don't get roaming like you would have included with T-Mobile or ATT proper. Based on where I live, work, and mostly travel the T-Mobile SIM works great for me. $45/mo unlimited talk, text, and web on HSPA+. They did call me and fuss at me for data usage once, but it was pretty egregious.. I think I downloaded like 20-30GB one month :-/

Re:t-mobile is the best low cost carrier

[Hydian]

I saved a lot of money by switching back to Sprint from Verizon and Verizon cost me a lot more when I initially switched away from Sprint even with a corporate discount.

Coverage...it all depends upon where you are. My personal phone is Sprint and my Blackberry is Verizon. I travel a lot and in my purely anecdotal experience the Sprint phone has had slightly better coverage with fewer dropped call issues. I can't say which is better for data because I don't use my Blackberry for many data tasks and frankly, 3G is fast enough for most tasks that you perform on a phone anyway.

Re:Where they fail

[chmod a x mojo]

Verizon shot themselves in the ass. They had unlimited data, then got rid of it. Eventually if you had unlimited data you got to keep it while new customers didn't have the option. Then they even got rid of that, to keep your unlimited data you had to buy a phone outright ( and this is even after they got rid of the "new every 2" ~$50 bonus when upgrading)... after buying one phone outright on my old contract I contacted customer support to inquire about keeping my unlimited data. Basically was told to fuck off, and pay more for a lot LESS data even though the absolute highest I ever used was 5.5GB one month. Told CS to shove it up their ass since I was a loyal - pretty much perfect, since my bill was paid on time every time- customer for ~10-12 years .

Ported to another carrier in less than two hours, got enough data with equivalent minutes for ~$20/Month cheaper to not worry, and haven't looked back. If they had worked with me as a loyal customer I would still be with them, and it's stupid... it's much much MUCH more cost effective to keep a good customer than it is to try and get a new one.

T-mobile is gaining ground.

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

Their no-contract plans are good. Despite a strong smear job by some Attorney General, (probably paid under the table by the big carriers), their phones are not locked once they are paid for. Unlimited talk, text and data, throttle down to 120 kbps after 500 MB, (10 Mbps before). 2GB more for 10$/month/line. 10 more for unlimited. When I got my nexus 4 from Google directly they gave me a micro simcard for free in their kiosk. Another nexus4 I saw from the store did not have as much junk pre loaded. No surprises so far.

My brother was saying that T-mobile benefited immensely in the failed take over big by AT&T. Apparently they had fine print, saying AT&T should give T-Mobile some 3 billion dollars and access to its network, if the deal was stopped by the Feds. So suddenly T-Mobile's coverage area increased tremendously and got some money too. But other are saying that still, T-mobile's coverage is its weak spot.

Re:Unlimited data only because they have to

[ArcherB]

'Unlimited data' would get me over to them _if_ the other problems were solved.

Of course if the other problems were solved, they would have no need to offer "unlimited" data. Sprint isn't offering that because they are nice guys. They are offering it because they are getting their asses handed to them by Verizon and AT&T and it is a way to draw in customers that would otherwise go elsewhere.

From what I've heard, Sprint realized it was costing more to monitor and bill for data than the extra money they were receiving from the fines. It was actually cheaper to NOT monitor data.

And for the record, I'm on Sprint and I have absolutely no issues whatsoever. 4G is as fast or faster than what I get at home and I get 4G coverage from home to work. I use a ton of data and could ever afford AT&T or any other phone company that monitors my data.

Re:Where they fail

[mrscorpio]

I don't think you had to buy the phone outright. I watched this policy evolve and basically it came down to any phone activated after (IIRC) 6/29/12 must choose a different plan, no more grandfathering you in. Up until that point I had used my new every 2 discounts and kept my grandfathered unlimited data, but seeing that the end was near and being eligible for an upgrade, I took my upgrade, sat on it for a while, and activated it the week before the end date. Since this is also now one of the few phones out there with a physical keyboard (Motorola Droid 4), I have two reasons to hold on to this phone as long as possible. It's actually pretty buggy and terrible (had to RMA it immediately and am on my second one, actually), but better than the alternative for me, which is paying way more for less data with Verizon, a bit more for less data with someone else, or similar cost keeping unlimited with a terrible network in Sprint. Hopefully by the time I'm due to upgrade again (next summer), this will all be sorted out in some way (phones, plans, AND networks).

Re:Where they fail

[chmod a x mojo]

I went to U.S. Cellular, I had had them before switching to Verizon years and years ago ( was the cheaper one at the time). With 4G coming to my area forecast for ~October I will be able to get unlimited data again and save an extra $10 a month from what I have now. Breakdown:

Verizon - had more minutes that I never used ( 750, used on average 40 minutes during the day when it wasn't free night + weekends / month ) unlimited data - had to root to wifi tether - USB tethering was "free" on Motorola phones but locked on samsung, no equip insurance, 200 texts. Cost ~130 / month. PROS: Customer service was quick to answer whenever I called in.

USC - less minutes that I will never use up ( 450, but all incoming calls free, rest of family is on USC so calls are free) 5GB data / month WITH tethering, do have equip insurance, unlimited text / MMS. Cost $105 / month. When 4G comes to my area it will SAVE me money getting unlimited data, cost will go down to $95 / month. CONS: Customer service is a bit harder to get a hold of since they seem to be a lot busier than Verizon.

Surprisingly 3G is equivalent to Verizon in my area and voice is actually better.

As an added bonus I get unlimited text / multimedia messaging for free. I never used that many texts so only had the 200 pack from Verizon. Not a big deal but it is kind of nice not to be raped for something that basically costs the carrier nothing. So far I have no real complaints.

Re:Why I left

[AlphaWolf_HK]

I'm one of the Sprint leavers. Here's what happened in my case:

The Phoenix area is horribly neglected by Sprint. The quality of service continues to drop, and they've been promising Phoenix customers that 4g is just a few months away for the last few years. Their 3g service barely comes in at dialup speeds, and when your phone needs to do something as simple as say update an app, the phone has to burn through its battery for about a half hour for even the smaller apps just to struggle to get data. This happens with pretty much every phone model out there because the data services are so horrible. In spite of these horribly bad data rates, just the mere fact that you own a smart phone they label the service as "premium data" and charge an extra $10 per month per phone. Their excuse is that because you own a smartphone, you'll use more data, ignoring the fact that their data is so horribly slow and wasteful on battery that you always end up relying on wifi anyways.

I got out of my Sprint contract by doing the roaming trick, and so have a lot of Sprint customers:

http://www.sprintusers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229968

T-mobile service is by far superior, by the way. Not only is it a third the price (T-mobile costs me $115 after taxes for 5 lines unlimited everything, sprint was $300 for 1500 shared minutes,) but the data services are reliable and fast as hell compared to Sprint. Sure it's not unlimited 4g, but if I pay that extra $10 Sprint was charging anyways it becomes unlimited 4g. However I find that I don't ever go above my limit anyways, so it doesn't matter, and even if I did there's never any data overage, it just goes to Edge speeds which are still MUCH faster than Sprint's 3g. T-mobile also has two (free) options you can add to your lines to completely block third party billing (from text services, 900 numbers, etc) as well as all international text/calls. Every month I had to call Sprint to fix some overage they did in error or sometimes getting signed up for a text spam service, whereas with T-Mobile I've never had to do that. Not once.

Another nice thing about t-mobile is it supports the HD Voice feature of my Nexus 4, and in addition to that when somebody calls me it actually rings immediately, whereas with Sprint the other person can hear up to four rings before my phone finally rang, often causing me to miss their call to voicemail. That and Sprint dropped calls like crazy, and when I confronted them about it they told me that their systems measured my quality of service to be 100% - and get this, when I was on the phone with the CSR, my call was dropped, and she actually called me back and then played stupid like it wasn't their problem.

I honestly have no idea how the hell Sprint intends to last long term. I'm rather shocked that they are a more popular carrier than t-mobile as their service is so much worse and by far more expensive. Plus it seems that T-Mobile has already reached 160m pop with their LTE coverage, whereas Sprint just reached 200m and they've been at it longer.

If you read between the lines of Sprint's SEC filings, their current plan is to keep revenues up by increasing the fees that each subscriber pays. They noted that in a previous filing by saying that over the last year their customers pay an average of $2 per month more than they did a year earlier, which was their way of sustaining themselves in the face of heavy subscriber losses. They do this in various ways, one way is by scaling back subscriber discounts, notice how they got rid of their premier program and they reworked their billing system so that discounts only apply to a single line instead of the whole account like every other carrier does, and lately they've been cutting people off of their discounts entirely (you now have to go through a periodic renewal process every so often.)