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The Latest Security Vulnerability: Your Toilet
NobleSavage writes "We all knew it was just a matter of time. With the rush to put more and more appliances on-line Japanese toilet-maker Satis, one of Japan's largest commode companies, has finally networked the toilet. Just as you would have predicted, the information security company Trustwave Holdings has published an advisory regarding Satis-brand toilets. According to Trustwave, every Satis toilet has the same hard-coded Bluetooth PIN, which means any person using the 'My Satis' [Android] application can control any Satis toilet."
oh shit!
I stopped reading right there.
Brings new meaning to "Kernel Dump"
Cannot wait for the modding community to start their work.
The NSA reports it just upgraded the terror alert level to brown after receiving numerous reports that people are using single-ply and not washing their hands after. Remain calm, citizen. The NSA is not in your toilet. Only metadata on your toilet habits are being collected. Remember, a courtesy flush isn't just patriotic, It's The Law(tm).
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Brown Screen of Death
Table-ized A.I.
Heh. I like my toilets more complicated than a short, narrow trough in the ground, but a large portion of those that even have flush toilets have just that...
The only existing fancy technology from a use-perspective that makes sense is the integrated bidet. The new types of technology that can make the toilet experience better have only to do with form factor. Changing the shape of the seat and the size of the opening, and changing the height of the bowl. In short, these changes would make the toilet less uncomfortable to sit on, and will allow one to get off of the toilet if one is infirm.
I don't see how using the toilet is improved by being a multimedia experience, though I suppose it would be funny if every time a solid dropped in, the toilet played the Mario Brothers' coin-collect sound...
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Honestly they bing this kind of thing on themselves.
Ah, a Microsoft toilet. That explains it.
If people can get their heads out of the gutter for a moment, this is really the kind of news that has a higher impact than believed. One could rack up quite a water bill for a unliked neighbor, and kids will have no end to the fun of flushing other's toliets, again leading to fresh water waste. There isn't as much fresh water as people would like to have, and on an island like Japan, I'd imagine that such waste would be felt quite dearly.
Also, how often are its memory leaks, and how does one analyze core dumps with it?
I would hate to see the SNMP MIB for a networked toilet. Sure, a commercial place (think airport, or large shopping mall) could use it to keep a handle on which bathroom needs to be cleaned, but... Some variables are not meant to be polled. I don't want my SNMP software to tell me the size or texture of objects flushed, etc.
Back door
They should can their programmers.
As I recall the Romans networked toilets some time ago. Not sure whom they got the idea from, tho...
Suppressed, insulted, and downtrodden for thousands of years, excrement has finally found an ally in technology to enact both escape and revenge upon humanity, their former slave-masters. Poop will finally rule the Earth like it was meant to; no longer confined to tubes and toilets. Freedom awaits; time to raise a stink!
Table-ized A.I.
All kinds of agencies will now be able to gather more very valuable information about yourself too...
Heck even Google will now be able to target you with diarrhea ads instantaneously! Insurance companies can now tell that you are an heavy beer drinker etc. Possibilities are endless...
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
Didn't expect the pin vulnerability. I thought it would be an overflow problem.
Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
I mean really - why would you network a toilet?
Great the way Trustwave publishes that they missed the point these things were designed to be as simple as possible.
As "simple as possible" would be to leave the bluetooth OUT of the commode.
We've had flush toilets (of one form or another) since the 31st century BC.
None of my electronic devices need to communicate with my toilet. They pretty much live in fear of that dam thing.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
I'm guessing the app involves pinching then swiping.
Anybody want a peanut?
The only existing fancy technology from a use-perspective that makes sense is the integrated bidet.
Not sure I would like that hygiene wise. Washing your bum in the toilet?
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
Could be they underestimated the reach of Bluetooth, or underestimated the cost of water for flushing.
Or perhaps you are overestimating both? Will the signal go 10 metres through concrete walls? Will flushing the toilet amount to any more than spare change in the long run? I honestly wouldn't know, I live in a part of the world where getting clean water isn't much of a problem.
c++;
I don't take electronics into the bathroom at all.
*ploop*
That's the sound of having to get a new phone.
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ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
Wonder if Chuck Berry has heard of this yet.
-- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
How complicated does a toilet need to be?
This is Japan we're talking about. A toilet requires a 38-button control panel with a liquid-crystal display. I wish I was joking...
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
...what kind of a society do we live in when not even our "IP" address is safe??? Time to re-check my chlorine-bleach-based firewall; you never know what nefarious trouble is in the pipeline.
Oh God - stack overflow!
Can't stop the Beta? Time to evacuate to ##altslashdot at webchat.freenode.net - Slashcott in effect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE0sddhCIdE
in the illegal spying. game. They just need to have the company install a networked trace metabolite and flushed contraband detector.
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I certainly hope "Ready to Receive" is its default position, because I'd sure hate to run through the pre flight checklist whilst doing the happy toilet dance.
Either that or stop dropping phones in it.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
I'm not sure I want to know what people can do by hacking your toilet.
Thousands of people in Japan are getting hot water sprayed up their asses right now.
Do they consider that desirable or undesirable? Japanese culture has always been a bit difficult for me to understand.
Security is really taking a dump! No way do I want NSA bugs coming out of this toilet!
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
A toilet requires a 38-button control panel with a liquid-crystal display. I wish I was joking...
I especially like the large buttons with the butt wash and butt dry symbols. For once those kind of symbols seem intelligible. Very accommodating to foreign travelers too. If I encountered one of these in a public restroom in Japan I might be able to figure out basic operations despite being unable to read Japanese. I wonder what the display looks like when it issues the warning "Overload imminent - gaijin buttocks detected".
Setting the thermostat seems good. Went on a trip and forgot/didn't bother to turn heat off?, you can do it. Coming back home in the freezing winter?, turn it on some hours before you get back home or even have something like "I want 19C by 8:00 PM" and the computerized system figures out how to make it happen cheapest.
At the least I'd like to be able to know how much my stuff is consuming electricity (global wattage, fridge, water heater..) and figure out if anything is not working properly (such as the fridge eating too much) and be able to fucking read it from my desktop. With daily, weekly, monthly ect power usage charts. Computer security is a big problem with stuff like that, sure.
Funnily the crapper maybe can be networked so it reports a leak! It doesn't need two-way communication though, just send a signal to the central computer.
What possible reason could there be for a wireless-capable toilet?
Of course, this is Japan who, as we all know, are into all sorts of weird shit.
I can't believe no one mentioned fiber. :p
If we're doing aggregator writeups it's been done better by someone who actually found the original Trustwave alert.
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
gets a new meaning (Japanese toilet seats are heated - someting i think of as very pleaseant).
A lot of them feel the same way about toilet paper... AFAIK the jets of water do an excellent job on their own without the person touching themselves, so the people used to them feel that using TP results in getting our hands filthy with germs and the urine/feces being smeared around & left behind in a thin hopefully-undetectable layer.
Now mostly at Usenet:comp.misc & SoylentNews.org (it's made of people!)
Thousands of people in Japan are getting hot water sprayed up their asses right now.
Do they consider that desirable or undesirable? Japanese culture has always been a bit difficult for me to understand.
Well, *up* the ass wouldn't be, but *on* the ass would be desirable (if it's not too hot) since it's the expected function of a bidet. (I've never used or even seen one, all I did was read the Wikipedia article.)
Now mostly at Usenet:comp.misc & SoylentNews.org (it's made of people!)
The threat on these, really, does exist. In certain situation susceptibility to traffic analysis is a security risk. For instance, in a home invasion, assuming that one washing after going to the toilet, it might provide an interval of venerability.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
people here are very resource-concious after the quake and tsunami. we also have toilets with built-in bidet that have many settings (water temperature, spray strength, pattern, location, toilet seat temperature, etc). my toilet has a small control panel on the wall, most have them built into the seat (captain picard's captain seat, style). this is likely to program the toilet, but i would imagine it also offers water use stats. i heard that it is approximately 100 yen per flush for most people, but of course that depends on your utility, toilet, regular or big flush, and other factors. i can configure my toilet easily enough, but tracking my flushes (and friends', girlfriend's) would be a pain.
for the record, i and others track our energy/water/gas usage to better understand our habits and be more resource-efficient (though for me, really just to save money).
Not if you know how to wipe properly & have decent TP. The benefit in bidets is that they avoid the risk of getting germs on your hands; most people that grew up using TP know how to use it to get their butts completely clean under normal circumstances.
Now mostly at Usenet:comp.misc & SoylentNews.org (it's made of people!)
it's basically an upgraded version of traditional Chinese physicians smelling the emperor's feces as a diagnostic tool
chemical assays of one's urine and feces can test for many health concerns, monitor your diet, and if your medicines need to have their doses adjusted
you'd sit on your toilet in the morning, and then get a message from your doctor saying there's elevated levels of marker in your urine and he wants you to come in the office to check something out
that's the utopian vision anyways
for the dystopian vision, check out all the other comments here
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
mario jumped on them.
do those cakes taste better than the big white mint?
but does it run linux?
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
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It'd be doubly ironic if the hacker's nym is IP Freely.
"A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
And let's better not talk about overflow, and for once I don't care about its backup capabilities.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Usually, devices with hardcoded PINs only are in pairing mode for a limited time (30 seconds) after pressing some special buttons.
It#s sepculation, but perhaps this here is really "hackable" with permanent pairing mode?
Or perhaps it's only news because it is a toilet.
bickerdyke
Yeah I was thinking the same thing, something still has to initiate a pairing process.....unless there's another backdoor for that
Ah, a Microsoft toilet. That explains it.
Okay fine, just can we please not make paperclip jokes now...
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You shouldn't need "clean water" for "flushing". Toilets are an IDEAL application for "grey water". Just slightly filter the waste water from showering, hand-washing, etc., and send it into your toilet. The water (and sewer flow) from flushing your toilet could well be completely free, as you would have had just as much use and output (of grey water) with no toilet.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
OK son, let me explain:
1) Wipe to remove excess stuff.
2) Use conventional bidet to remove the rest and pieces of toilet paper left behind, attached to your bum...
3) Wash conventional bidet.
4) Wash hands.
The method you are describing is going to send shit all over the place, even where you wouldn't get any by just wiping. It is a little bit like when you take a piss and drops bounce back outside the toilet. What do you think is going to happen with a built-in bidet?
Also, there is nothing wrong with touching yourself to make sure you did a good job ;-)
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-etoilet-to-revolutionize-online-shitting,633/
Everything is better with bluetooth http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61a0qHFcQE4
It seems you're a little constrained down there, do you need any help with that?
What do you do if a bird craps on your head?
1) Wash your hair
2) Smear the shit around with piece of paper
Yup. I don't think I own a single bluetooth device that DOESN'T have a hardcoded PIN. My phone/PC/laptop/etc support pairing to devices that don't, but everything I'd want to attach them to just hardcodes 1234 or 0000.
"You have just taken a massive dump, pee on the share button to post it on your Facebook wall."
This is one case where lack of backup functionality is actually a feature.
Please, please don't tell my boss or he'll order a few of them for our server room.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
What's funny about this?
The buttons in the hidden panel are if you want to finely control temperature (of the seat and of the water), fan speed etc.
Toto distributes in the West.
So, with the same code for bluetooth pairing with any toilet, are you able to bring your own collection of all these settings to whatever toilet you use, or is the pairing process too much of a hassle for this to work well?
Bidets are like royalty. Nobody quite knows what they're for but they do give a touch of class to a room if they're in it.
while (true != false) process_more_stupid_code();
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let me guess, it just says "wipe here"?
We've had flush toilets (of one form or another) since the 31st century BC.
I know this is meant to be humorous, but the flush toilet was invented in the 1800s. It's recent technology -- about as old as the motorcar. It was inevitable that it would get the benefits of electronics...although I can't see what benefit is gained by wiring up a toilet.
I think we've gotten to the point where we put electronics into things just for the hell of it.
Genocide Man -- Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass murder can be hilarious.
The next step is to calculate the weight and density of the deposit and upload the data to the leaderboards so I won't have to keep doing it manually.
We all live in fear of beings we can't communicate with. Maybe this is the first step to bridging the gap.
I log in to my toilet every day at 10:00....
According to this article, the app can cause the toilet to repeatedly flush,
So is this a DDOS (Doody Denial of Service)?
They can take my LifeAlert pendant when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
Just try wikipedia before replying on a subject you don't know shit about.
31st century BC is perhaps a bit doubtful. It's shitting in a trench with running water. But, something you would recognise as a toilet appeared in Richmond Palace in 1596. Too bad Queen Elizabeth (the first) refused to use it because of the noise it made.
A bowl you shit in, with a drain, and a flushing apparatus above it.
Some of the stuff that goes into my sink and bathtub is not the sort of thing I want lingering around in a toilet bowl or clogging up the works.
I suppose I could filter it, or have dedicated handwashing sinks, or something.
But even then, my shower drain is below the toilet. So I'd need to pump the water uphill to get it into the toilet.
It seems like I'll need an independent grey water system, which will need maintained.
And as it stands I've never had to clear a clog on the clean side of a toilet, and I'm not really interested in clearing a clog on the grey side.
(Also: I just don't care that much about water use. The reservoir in my small town was, in recent history, at one time the largest above-ground reservoir in the world. Even in the depths of drought, we've got lots of relatively cheap potable water for flushing toilets, washing cars, watering gardens... Running low has never been a concern here.)
Kid-proof tablet..
If the options are:
1) Immediately stop what I'm doing, find a place wash my hair, wash it, dry it, brush it, and make it look decent
2) Smear the shit around with a piece of paper
I'll probably just smear the shit around with a piece of paper, thanks. I'll get a large percentage of it out immediately, and take care of the rest when a shower is more convenient.
And I'll tell you what I'm not going to do: I'm not going to rinse my head off in a bidet.
Kid-proof tablet..
That could change very quickly. As cities keep growing, they go further afield for reliable sources of fresh water. Even cities that had ample water supplies quickly outgrow their sources, and in the face of droughts have hard choices to make, and extreme motivation. Wherever you are, your not too far from a large, thirsty city. They may start making deals to siphon off your reserves, or perhaps just invoke one law or authority or another to FORCE your locale to do so.
The California Aqueduct is 700 miles long, traversing extremely harsh terrain. Practically no one is far enough away to be immune from thirsty cities, searching for more water sources. Where rivers are concerned, your source of water could be affected by events thousands of miles away. Aquifers spanning multiple states are similarly affected.
I don't really disagree with your opinion on the subject, but be aware that the world is changing quickly, and you might go from ample cheap water, to rationing, in incredibly short order. Thinking about your options now, might serve you well later on.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Talk talk talk.
We've got more trouble with massive flooding, than we do with droughts requiring water restrictions (the last serious drought was 25 years ago, and it was so not-serious that it was only advised that folks not water their lawns -- all other uses were A-OK). Things haven't really changed much since then.
I don't really care about the California Aqueduct. That's their problem.
I'm going to keep flushing my shit down the toilet with clean potable water, and that shitified clean water is going to be treated and put back into the same river it came from, where it will help the town downstream flush their own shit down their own toilets with their own potable water from the same river.
And I'm going to look at my water bill and go "Gosh, that's perfectly reasonable," just like I always have.
Kid-proof tablet..
There's plenty of flooding in the deserts, too. Death Valley is mostly a dry lake bed.
There are restrictions on how much treated water can be mixed in with clean water. The downstream guys have a harder time of cleaning it when more of it is sewage.
Nothing specific to California, just one example of the lengths to which large cities will go for their water. No doubt you've got one or more near you, and they'll start eying your supplies pretty soon, if they aren't already.
Two decades ago, my small town was consistently reported as having the best (tasting) tap water in the state. Now it's recycled and chlorinated all to hell, with 10X the suspended solids, arsenic above allowed levels, etc. The main reason being, a dam was built up-river, and the bulk of the water in the reservoir is being sold for big money to much larger cities much further away.
You can think of this as the coming attractions. Enjoy.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
No, the best is the third one over, with the ponytail. It's for feminine hygine. Or, if you're a guy, for spraying water on your testicles. The more you know.
The really freaky part is the seat warmer if you're not expecting it. "Oh god! The one obese person in Japan just got off this seat just a few seconds ago!"
Just don't push the button labelled ATR
The big cities near here are either on massive freshwater lakes, or situated along large rivers that are prone to flooding and almost never run dry, while also having their own huge reservoirs to pick up the slack.
This isn't LA, nor is it Death Valley. Some places have warm weather most of the time and plenty sunshine and very little precipitation; we have cold snowy winters and plenty of water.
Of course, it didn't used to be this way: We used to have entirely too much water. Not so long ago in the greater history of things, this was all swampland. Draining it was initially quite an undertaking, as I understand it, and fight to get rid of excess water hasn't ceased since.
Seriously. You can talk all you want, but you won't make believe that I, personally, live in an area with an impending water shortage. (We do have a water problem here, and that is only that we have way too much of it.)
Kid-proof tablet..
I went to some length to explain that cities "near" you can be over 1,000 miles away, and yet get to siphon off much of your water.
Los Angeles is merely the canary in the coal mine. Cities all over have had droughts and resort to water rationing. Even the barren desert states of... Washington, Minnesota, Colorado, Montana, Wisconsin, etc.
You're going pretty far to assert that your world-view is perfect, and not letting any pesky little facts upset it. Name the city, and I'll be happy to tell you who is likely to start taking away your water in the near future. Doesn't even have to be YOUR city, just one you're so damn sure will never have a water shortage.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
No, I'm going pretty far to assert that there is not, and is unlikely to be, a water shortage in my town.
I will further reiterate that we had plenty of water during the last severe drought, which was in 1988, wherein "water rationing" consisted of: Don't water your lawn during the day (but at night is OK).
It was quite a thing: Very thirsty trees trees falling over in the wind, crops failed, small fires happening in the most unusual ways, the river went dry, etc.
But a shortage of potable water? No, not really. Not one of any particular magnitude or meritous of any significant rationing.
Kid-proof tablet..
Should be trivially easy for you to name a non-mythical city, then... One that is and will forever have ample water, sources that nobody else could take away.
Otherwise, I've just been wasting my time arguing against your fevered hallucinations.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Why don't you tell me where you live, Crazy Internet Person?
Kid-proof tablet..
Because I don't keep using my town as a central point in the discussion, and continue asserting that it has ridiculous magical powers...
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Why won't you tell me where you live, Crazy Internet Person?
Kid-proof tablet..
Hey Crazy Internet Person.
You know we can't continue to berate eachother unless you tell me where you live.
So why won't you tell me?
I want to know more about the arsenic levels in your crazy self-invented town's water.
Kid-proof tablet..
Hey coward: Why do you mark me as Foe? Why don't you just tell me where you live? I'm not asking for much, am I?
(Unless I am, in which case you are just another asshole on the Internet...)
Kid-proof tablet..
Hey Crazy Internet Person,
I'll show you mine if you show me yours.
Kid-proof tablet..