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Apple Isn't the Next Microsoft (and That's a Good Thing)

Nerval's Lobster writes "In a new Gizmodo column, Andreas Goeldi calls it the 'frosted glass' effect: when a prominent tech company's latest upgrade to its flagship operating system features frosted-glass highlights as its primary innovation, you know that company is facing a period of severe stagnation. That's what happened to Microsoft around the time of Windows Vista, Goeldi wrote, and Apple's going down the same road with iOS 7. In light of what he views as Apple's sclerosis, it wasn't difficult for him to abandon his iPhone in favor of a Google Android ecosystem. But is Apple really becoming the next Microsoft? In short: no. Apple seems to recognize everything that seemed to elude Microsoft's corporate thinking six years ago: namely, that even the most successful companies need to keep breaking into new categories, and keep innovating, if they want to stay ahead of hungry rivals. Rumors have persisted for quite some time that Apple is prepping big pushes into wearable electronics and televisions, both of which could prove lucrative strategies if executed correctly. Goeldi faults iOS 7 for its frosted-glass effects, which he compares to those of Vista; but similar graphical elements aside, it's unlikely that iOS 7 will run into the same complaints over hardware requirements, compatibility, security, and so much more that greeted Vista upon its release. In fact, iOS 7 isn't even finished."

269 comments

  1. Gizmodo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    I take it this is all a suck-up smoke and mirrors after that iphone theft debacle?

    1. Re:Gizmodo by rudy_wayne · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Considering the source (Gizmodo) it's not surprising that they think Vista's "frosted glass" effect was its main innovation. Vista had its problems, but many of them were the fault of third party developers who dragged their feet when it came to making their software run properly on Vista. Having used Vista every day for 18 months, it was better than XP. Not as good as Windows 7, but not as bad as most people tried to claim.

    2. Re:Gizmodo by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      In the grandest /. tradition, I have of course not properly RTFA.

      However, if the author thinks the most interesting "innovation" in Vista was "frosted glass", then he has no credibility on the topic whatsoever. Vista was a massive overhaul of Windows, with most of the effort (and changes) spent under the hood.

      The irony here is that the author seems to be both criticising eye-candy UI effects, while simultaneously peddling the notion that the "innovation" that matters happens in the UI, rather than in the guts of the OS.

    3. Re:Gizmodo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Suck up to who?
      Not to apple.

    4. Re:Gizmodo by orthancstone · · Score: 2

      I take it this is all a suck-up smoke and mirrors after that iphone theft debacle?

      You give them way too much credit. No way that much forethought was put into this article.

    5. Re:Gizmodo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Gizmodo. Any site which writes so much is bound to write one or two stupid things.

      But, on average, their output has been solid for years on end. It's what I use for the stuff Slashdot doesn't cover.

      Disclaimer: I own two shares of Gizmodo stock. Other than that, I have no relation to them except as a satisfied customer. I was fucked in the ass by a goat yesterday.

    6. Re:Gizmodo by UnknowingFool · · Score: 0

      3rd Party developers were all to blame? MS created many of the problems themselves; they didn't need help. Many 3rd party developers weren't ready for Vista but they like everyone else didn't think MS would actually release Vista in that level of incompleteness. They thought they had more time. Those developers didn't create the Vista Compatible/Ready fiasco. They didn't make UAC so damn annoying. They didn't cause MS to throw out everything after years of development and start from scratch using a different kernel.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    7. Re:Gizmodo by dan828 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh come one, Gizmodo used to be a nice gadget site, now it's just a hipster blog with tech as one of the themes.

    8. Re: Gizmodo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      My vanilla install crashed at least daily for about a year. I re-installed the OS several times to no avail. XP, win7, win8 and Linux variants have run and continue to run on the same hardware.
      Your post is BS and Vista IS still shit!!
      My wife said I never swore as much as when I used Vista.

    9. Re:Gizmodo by dan828 · · Score: 1, Troll

      Please. Giz has been sucking up to Apple since the whole iPhone thing, hoping to make it back into their good graces. They come off as blatant fanboys any more.

    10. Re:Gizmodo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      3rd Party developers were all to blame? MS created many of the problems themselves; they didn't need help. Many 3rd party developers weren't ready for Vista but they like everyone else didn't think MS would actually release Vista in that level of incompleteness. They thought they had more time. Those developers didn't create the Vista Compatible/Ready fiasco. They didn't make UAC so damn annoying. They didn't cause MS to throw out everything after years of development and start from scratch using a different kernel.

      Actually, Vista was the move where Microsoft stopped trying to support the babies. Many 3rd party apps improperly used API calls, long marked deprecated, long warning against misuse in the documentation, were finally culled and the edge cases nailed down. Throwing tentacles into the registry and tweaking hidden and unsupported things were no longer allowed. Dangerous things like writing directly into system directories now needed UAC. Annoying? Sure, but if the apps weren't trying to (ab)use the system, they wouldn't have needed those escalation prompts in the first place.

      Apps and drivers that failed to respect the proper models paid the price. The stuff worked in XP despite itself because no one ever thought Microsoft would break compatibility. Well, when you were getting 0-day exploits popping up every few days, it's time to lock that crap down.

      It's just like the move from Windows Me. The environment was so polluted and haphazard it was time to clean house. And, if you recall, there were plenty of whining developers back then, too, as none of their stuff worked in Windows 2000 / XP unless they stopped relying on unsafe, crash-happy tricks.

    11. Re:Gizmodo by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      well that's what the users see.. who the fuck cares if win8 has better internals than 7, if the face of win8 is metro.

      however the author is stupid. there's obvious reason for apple to move to flat design and the obvious reason is that jonyyyyyyyyy got tired of approving 10 life imitating pictures for different screen sizes of a calendar background image. yes folks, that's the real reason for apple to go flat: they got so many different ios device resolutions that they got tired of the shit of photoshopping buttons and backgrounds for all of them.

      (I use 8 because I have to, alternative would be to run 8 in a vm and since 8 can be made to run mostly like 7 I don't really care, and no I don't want to run occasional visual studio and games in a vm)

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    12. Re:Gizmodo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The article is pure puffery. In fact, Apple and Microsoft ARE converging.

      Android has 80% of the smartphone market and Apple has 14%, down from 18% last quarter.

      Global smartphone shipments grew 47 percent to hit 230 million devices in the second quarter of 2013, according to a new report from research firm Strategy Analytics. And Android captured record market share of 80 percent. Apple iOS reached 14 percent global smartphone share in the quarter.

      Microsoft has 4%.

      In China, Apple overtaken by Xiaomi in smartphone rankings

      And it's only going to get worse for Apple, as the company just announced the Red Rice smartphone, a pretty decently spec'd model priced at a mere 799 yuan ($130). For that pittance, Chinese buyers will get quite a bit: a quad-core MediaTek CPU, 4.7-inch 720p screen (312 ppi) with Gorilla Glass 2, 1GB RAM, 4GB storage, China Mobile's TD-SCDMA 3G, dual-sim / dual standby capability, an 8-megapixel rear camera and Xiaomi's MIUI-flavored Android.

      http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/31/xiaomi-unveils-the-red-rice-smartphone/ [engadget.com] http://www.pcworld.com/article/2046019/in-china-apple-overtaken-by-xiaomi-in-smartphone-rankings.html [pcworld.com]

      Oddly enough, Slashdot does not consider this to be news.

    13. Re:Gizmodo by tverbeek · · Score: 3, Interesting

      He's mistaking the superficial smoke and mirrors for what is/isn't going on under the hood.

      Vista had fresh eye candy, but nuts-and-bolts problems. It sucked.
      OS X had fresh eye candy, and a somewhat revolutionary software framework behind it. It rocked.
      WinXP had fresh eye candy, and a more solid NT kernel underneath. It rocked gently.

      The bottom line is that everything new is going to be loaded with new eye candy, because it can be. If you want to determine whether that eye candy is trying to disguise problems with the underlying system software and company behind it ... you need to look at that underlying system software and the company behind it.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    14. Re:Gizmodo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe if you RTFA you'd see that the stupid Gizmodo article is trashing Apple, not sucking up to them.

    15. Re:Gizmodo by dan828 · · Score: 1

      RTFA? Are you new here?

    16. Re:Gizmodo by TemporalBeing · · Score: 5, Insightful

      3rd Party developers were all to blame?

      Primarily yes, though Microsoft didn't help things by changing the driver API between the last RC (RC2) and manufacturer (RTM) releases, thereby breaking most all the drivers that manufacturers had tested.

      MS created many of the problems themselves; they didn't need help.

      MS propogated a culture of developers using Administrative Rights for nearly every application. It didn't help that many of their own APIs were broken so badly that you had to have those rights to do many things. However, they also warned developer for years that the change was coming, and developers had the opportunity to test on Vista before its release to make sure that wouldn't be an issue - yet most chose to ignore it. Thus the whole UAC debacle which is primarily a 3rd party issue.

      Many 3rd party developers weren't ready for Vista but they like everyone else didn't think MS would actually release Vista in that level of incompleteness.

      Vista was quite complete when it was released. That was not the issue. Win8 was less polished than Vista upon release (considerably so); but fairing better because it builds off of Vista (as Win7 did).

      They thought they had more time.

      No. Anyone that tracked the releases - and you didn't have to be in some secret group - knew the release was coming. The betas for Vista were very public and didn't require an MSDN license to obtain either. The only thing that really caught people off guard was the change in the driver APIs that MS did at the last second which only affected those writing device drivers. Those developers didn't create the Vista Compatible/Ready fiasco. They didn't make UAC so damn annoying.

      Their failure to modify their applications to not require APIs that needed Admin Rights was what caused the UAC fiasco and made it so damn annoying.

      They didn't cause MS to throw out everything after years of development and start from scratch using a different kernel.

      You obviously know very little about the Vista codebase and its evolution and history.

      Vista is based on the same kernel series as WinXP - the NT Kernel. It was just the next major version (6.0).
      Yes, Microsoft had developed a version of Windows that it had scrapped - 3 years before Vista was released - and restarted the development cycle to produce Vista. But that restart was not a wholesale rewrite. It restarted from the WinXP codebase, refactored the APIs for better modularity, and added new features.

      The kernel that got scrapped was never released outside of a couple limited distribution alphas and betas. It never really entered the release cycle - other than demos that Microsoft did of WinFS and other stuff. It was too damn slow to be usable.

      The main areas of incompatibility between the NT5 (WinXP) and NT6 (Vista/7/8) kernels were that the sound and video drivers were moved from kernel space to user space to help improve stability. Most all other drivers were still compatible or only had minor changes required.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    17. Re: Gizmodo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You are a horrible liar, lol.

    18. Re:Gizmodo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget OEMs that shipped systems with vista that were grating extremely close to the min specs, these are the type of systems the vast majority of users end up having.

    19. Re:Gizmodo by exomondo · · Score: 1

      3rd Party developers were all to blame?

      Kind of, yes. There were always guidelines around where applications could store their data and what they could access but this was never actually enforced, so often developers just took the easiest route and ignored those guidelines. So once these practices were enforced things stopped working.

      MS created many of the problems themselves; they didn't need help.

      They certainly created some, for example the culture they fostered around everybody running as Administrator and everything having admin rights. But removing that was a good thing, even if it did break some applications. Yes UAC was annoying but if most 3rd party linux applications were written to abuse the system then having to elevate privileges all the time there would be annoying too. Certainly if they had've enforced such a security model in earlier versions of Windows this wouldn't have been such an issue.

      The new driver model is better too, but naturally changing the driver model is going to require new drivers and thus create incompatibility.

      They didn't cause MS to throw out everything after years of development and start from scratch using a different kernel.

      When did that happen? I'm pretty sure Windows Vista used an evolution of the XP kernel (which came from the NT kernel).

    20. Re:Gizmodo by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

      While there are diminishing returns, that's obviously false. The UI's of Windows 95 and NT4 (after a service pack , I think) were essentially identical. However, one liked to crash early and often, and the other would work for months under the most grueling computational workout. It matters a lot. In fact, the internals are the only reason why Jobs was brought back to Apple. Classic Mac OS had more UI goodness than OSX's first couple of releases.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    21. Re:Gizmodo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. Stupid blogger is stupid. Vista had many changes (not all were innovations in the sense of being new to the world, but new to Microsoft). For example BitLocker drive encryption. Another example mandatory integrity labels allowing for low rights Internet Explorer. Also UAC which allows processes to run as standard user even though the user is an administrator. Frosted glass? Yeah - that was the least of the innovations. Again, stupid blogger that knows nothing about IT is a stupid blogger.

    22. Re:Gizmodo by KingMotley · · Score: 2

      The main areas of incompatibility between the NT5 (WinXP) and NT6 (Vista/7/8) kernels were that the sound and video drivers were moved from kernel space to user space to help improve stability. Most all other drivers were still compatible or only had minor changes required.

      And I don't usually have to reboot to install new video drivers, and when the video driver does die out, I see the screen flicker, and a pop up notification tells me that the video driver crashed and was restarted, but everything else keeps on working.

      MS propogated a culture of developers using Administrative Rights for nearly every application. It didn't help that many of their own APIs were broken so badly that you had to have those rights to do many things. However, they also warned developer for years that the change was coming, and developers had the opportunity to test on Vista before its release to make sure that wouldn't be an issue - yet most chose to ignore it. Thus the whole UAC debacle which is primarily a 3rd party issue.

      I would say this is mostly right. I don't totally agree that MS propagated that culture, but it was prevalent, especially in bad programmers who really didn't know what they were doing. It forced some to actually realize they didn't need to do some of the crazy things they were doing, but they just didn't know better at the time.

      In automotive terms, it's the equivalent of needing the key to start the car because you want to check the time on the radio. Of course, you could just hit the button on the radio which will turn the clock on temporarily, but some people will cry and moan that they need the key very loudly at the top of their lungs about it.

    23. Re:Gizmodo by gutnor · · Score: 2

      They got everybody hyped-up and then let Vista be installed on machine incapable of running it decently. Added to that, the whole Vista Ready vs Vista Capable.

      That is a major communication fuck up. Even Apple which would hype a dull steak knife into a samurai sword is very very clear what will not run on what machine when they announce an iOS upgrade.

      Vista was not a first for MS. They hyped, most of the time involuntarily, stuff they would never deliver or promises they would break. Nowadays, in market where MS is not the leader, that bites them big time in the ass.

    24. Re:Gizmodo by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Apple releases one smartphone per year. Every year they are cyclical. Every analyst knows this. Every analyst knows that they get weaker every month until the release. August numbers are likely far worse than July's, so what? Every analysts knows to look at annualized numbers.

      So no, it isn't news.

    25. Re:Gizmodo by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      They didn't cause MS to throw out everything after years of development and start from scratch using a different kernel.

      When did that happen? I'm pretty sure Windows Vista used an evolution of the XP kernel (which came from the NT kernel).

      About the time they discovered that .NET wasn't a good choice for OS level development. About 3+ years of development got tossed out (You've heard of LongHorn, right? The original LongHorn? The managed codebase OS?) and they fell back to the server 2003 kernel and lickedy split pushed out a new consumer version as fast as they possibly could with 5 years of promises in a little over 2. The results were the most abysmal OS MS ever released, well, at least until Win8 came out.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    26. Re:Gizmodo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The results were the most abysmal OS MS ever released, well, at least until Win8 came out.

      What is actulaly wrong with win8? Im not interested in metro and i never used the old start menu anyway so is it just these superficial things that is getting everybody all upity about it? to me it seems to work really well and all that glossy faux glass crap is gone. all the apps i use work the same as they always have, even if i were to launch them from the start screen.

    27. Re:Gizmodo by davydagger · · Score: 1

      the problem is gagets for the most part are now hipster accessories.

      There were actually useful tablets before Android/iOS, and now you can't find any x86, or even Archos tablets, that either run linux, or can run linux, or any other full power OS.

      just more hipster toys.

    28. Re:Gizmodo by Smauler · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Vista had fresh eye candy, but nuts-and-bolts problems. It sucked.

      No, it didn't. It sucked on crappy hardware of the time, and it had driver issues early on. Windows 7 could never have happened without Vista... it is basically Vista, but by the time it was released hardware had moved on.

      WinXP had fresh eye candy, and a more solid NT kernel underneath. It rocked gently.

      XP rocked because it was based on 2k. There wasn't much different between 2k and XP, in the overall scheme of things. 2k was very good as an OS... it's just a shame it wasn't marketed as a consumer OS.

      Vista's problems weren't caused by its eye-candy. They were it being a resource hog, and early driver issues. I'm still running Vista on a system I bought when it was first out (now upgraded RAM to 16gb, because it was going free,and gfx upgrade), and my uptime is basically measured in power cuts. Windows 7 is basically Vista with the hardware caught up.

    29. Re:Gizmodo by microbox · · Score: 2

      Vista had fresh eye candy, but nuts-and-bolts problems. It sucked.

      Vista had /huge/ under the hood changes. The changes were extremely important in improving the security and stability of windows. I'm not a M$ fan, but can see that they did release some cool technology.

      --

      Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
    30. Re:Gizmodo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Apple's markets share is converging with Microsoft's - eg, around 5%. Both will soon be largely irrelevant.

      That IS news.

    31. Re: Gizmodo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good points, I agree.

    32. Re:Gizmodo by jbolden · · Score: 1

      It would be news if there were any truth to it. Apple hasn't had a single quarter since the first year of the iPhone where their marketshare touched 5%. Moreover their year over year growth continues to be faster than the smartphone market as a whole.

    33. Re:Gizmodo by Uberbah · · Score: 2

      No, it didn't. It sucked on crappy hardware of the time, and it had driver issues early on.

      Which...means it sucked. You've really screwed the pooch as a software company if reverting to your previous version is both a performance and usability upgrade.

      Vista was the ME of it's decade, and for the same reasons. Yeah, it got better after a stream of updates and a service pack, but then we have to give the same consideration for XP.

    34. Re:Gizmodo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Apple hits three-year low in smartphone marketshare, shipment figures reveal

      http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/26/apple-three-year-low-smartphone-marketshare/

    35. Re:Gizmodo by exomondo · · Score: 1

      About the time they discovered that .NET wasn't a good choice for OS level development. About 3+ years of development got tossed out (You've heard of LongHorn, right? The original LongHorn? The managed codebase OS?)

      I remember Singularity, which was the managed kernel research project from 2003-2008, I didn't think that was ever meant to be the Windows kernel though.

    36. Re: Gizmodo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you install updates, latest drivers??

    37. Re:Gizmodo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Metro apps are not Window'ed. Which is sort of stupid when you think about it. My Android Phone has better windowing support than Windows "Metro".

    38. Re:Gizmodo by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      I'm talking in terms of sales. I fortunately no longer use nor develop any MS software.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    39. Re:Gizmodo by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      That was the original point of LongHorn - it was to be managed code throughout, as much as possible, although the core was still to be NT. Who knows how much was FUD, and how much was real? Only those working on it. But they did wind up scrapping 3+ years work, some articles at the time stated it was at least 5 years.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    40. Re:Gizmodo by uglyduckling · · Score: 2

      I'll bite... it's slower than Windows 7 for launching applications, running things like Windows Update and Control Panel - I only know this because my limited use of Win8 has been to help people set up their machines. The 'hover the mouse in the screen corner' thing is totally confusing and unintuitive. Ditto the start screen thing. It actually seems like a step backward to something analogous to the Dos/Win3.1 days - back then most PC users thought of the Win3.1 interface as 'the computer' but sometimes you had to drop down to DOS to fix something, and certain programs (games mostly) were DOS only. Win8 feels like that - there's two competing UIs with completely different metaphors duelling it out on one screen that flips backwards and forwards. It's a bizarre attempt to take the approach that Apple has been using - gradually bringing the touch-based iOS and the desktop-based metaphors together - but Microsoft have just done it in one leap, and the result is terrible. It would be OK if the start screen thing actually brought some major advantage, but it's just a confusing mess that makes it difficult to launch the required application.

    41. Re:Gizmodo by DuckDodgers · · Score: 2

      I think Vista is a very tiny piece of Microsoft's problems. The real problem is the user experience and ease-of-use, which Microsoft gets wrong a lot more than Apple. It's death by a thousand cuts.

      Sometimes the feature you want is in a control panel. Sometimes the feature you want is an administrator tool.
      It takes two lawyers, five tech support staff, a voodoo priestess, and a ouija board to figure out Terminal Services licensing.
      If you install a pre-SP2 version of Windows XP and go through the Windows Update process once, you get to see dozens of distinct patch applications and reboots.
      Some useful system services are controlled by the "net" command, even though many of them have nothing to do with the network.
      The file copy progress dialog clearly uses a random number generator to create the progress bar.
      Windows Explorer hangs completely when just one out of fifty folders in the view becomes unavailable due to a slow disk or network disruption.
      The naming conventions for different Windows skews and what they contain changes significantly with every release.
      On anything other than an SSD the "Search Indexer" service slows the computer to a crawl from time to time.
      Too many security updates require a reboot.
      Windows 8 home edition removed DVD playback from the consumer version for the sole purpose of alienating customers. It worked, I'm alienated.
      They keep changing their technologies and products, alienating developers. First they pushed developers to C++. Then it was C# and the .NET framework. Then it was Silverlight. Now it's C++ and HTML5/Javascript, and Silverlight is end-of-lifed.
      Windows Mobile was killed. Windows Phone 7 was killed (Windows Phone 8 has a compatibility layer to run Windows Phone 7 apps, but it's a different underlying architecture).

      If you're a giant corporation with more money than brains you can just throw money at Microsoft until all of your Microsoft software is licensed properly and "just works". For everyone else, they've made it their personal mission to drive you into psychological counseling. Apple's user interfaces are more consistent, their licensing is simpler, their technology stack is more consistent. I'm a Linux geek, I hate the Apple walled garden as much as the Microsoft walled garden. But for people that don't give a damn about proprietary software and walled gardens, I can completely understand why they view Steve Jobs as a god and Steve Ballmer as the devil.

    42. Re:Gizmodo by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

      MS propogated a culture of developers using Administrative Rights for nearly every application. It didn't help that many of their own APIs were broken so badly that you had to have those rights to do many things. However, they also warned developer for years that the change was coming, and developers had the opportunity to test on Vista before its release to make sure that wouldn't be an issue - yet most chose to ignore it. Thus the whole UAC debacle which is primarily a 3rd party issue.

      I would say this is mostly right. I don't totally agree that MS propagated that culture, but it was prevalent, especially in bad programmers who really didn't know what they were doing. It forced some to actually realize they didn't need to do some of the crazy things they were doing, but they just didn't know better at the time.

      I say MS propagated that culture because many APIs that didn't actually need admin rights required admin rights to access, in part because of the convoluted and circular kernel-user space dependencies in the APIs themselves - something MS fixed for Vista and has kept refining since.

      Even MS's own programs - MS Office - required admin rights for things it shouldn't have (again fixed around the time of Vista); however, it is noteable that MS fixed those programs as it started to trumpet the horn saying that those things should not be done. My guess is a lot of those changes were due to Ray Ozzie's influence as he was brought in to lead the restart in development that led to Vista.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    43. Re:Gizmodo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, it didn't. It sucked on crappy hardware of the time, and it had driver issues early on.

      It sucked on "crappy" hardware that happily ran any other OS at the time, and "crappy" hardware that Microsoft had certified it would run well on. major Microsoft suckage I'd say. If your OS is advertised as running on your hardware and it won't, your OS sucks. Period. If there are no drivers for hardware the vendor says it will run on, that's major suckage.

      Vista's problems weren't caused by its eye-candy. They were it being a resource hog, and early driver issues.

      What you call "resource hog" I call "bloat" and "sloppy coding" Sloppy coding + bloat = SUCK.

      Why are you defending a shitty OS from a shitty company?

    44. Re:Gizmodo by Tamerlin · · Score: 2

      The "revolutionary" software framework that Apple put behind OSX is basically a clone of .NET, which I realized as I was poking through the Apple developer documentation.

    45. Re:Gizmodo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Ha. Hahaha. Hahahahahaha! That's funny. NextStep was a clone of .Net ... you crack me up, dude!

    46. Re:Gizmodo by exomondo · · Score: 1

      That was the original point of LongHorn - it was to be managed code throughout, as much as possible

      Ultimately most of the userland did end up that way didn't it?

      although the core was still to be NT

      So when you say they "fell back to the server 2003 kernel" what were they using?

    47. Re:Gizmodo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's slower than Windows 7 for launching applications, running things like Windows Update and Control Panel

      No its not, even in the preview stage windows 8 performed better than windows 7.

      there's two competing UIs with completely different metaphors duelling it out on one screen that flips backwards and forwards

      yeah like i said i use it the same way i used windows 7 so that doesnt actually effect me. i dont really care about the new ui so i just dont use it.

    48. Re:Gizmodo by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      I remember an old Slashdot story where a researcher found Vista needed 4 gigs or ram for its ideal fit!

      This was back when 512 meg systems were still sold and met all sorts of outcry.

      Windows 7 is not even on the same planet. It runs on 1 gig of ram systems. As in runs and boots up with 512 megs or ram. WIth 2 gigs of ram it can run most undemanding programers and still be decent. Vista with 2 gigs of ram would thrash the hard drive to death for the first hour after install or any time a disk defrag would run.

      Windows 7 you can argue with geek points about it being Vista SP 2, but for real usage it is not even in the same ballpark. Vista sucks! I will never put that back on my 2 gig notebook.

    49. Re:Gizmodo by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      3rd Party developers were all to blame?

      Primarily yes, though Microsoft didn't help things by changing the driver API between the last RC (RC2) and manufacturer (RTM) releases, thereby breaking most all the drivers that manufacturers had tested.

      MS created many of the problems themselves; they didn't need help.

      MS propogated a culture of developers using Administrative Rights for nearly every application. It didn't help that many of their own APIs were broken so badly that you had to have those rights to do many things. However, they also warned developer for years that the change was coming, and developers had the opportunity to test on Vista before its release to make sure that wouldn't be an issue - yet most chose to ignore it. Thus the whole UAC debacle which is primarily a 3rd party issue.

      Many 3rd party developers weren't ready for Vista but they like everyone else didn't think MS would actually release Vista in that level of incompleteness.

      Vista was quite complete when it was released. That was not the issue. Win8 was less polished than Vista upon release (considerably so); but fairing better because it builds off of Vista (as Win7 did).

      They thought they had more time.

      No. Anyone that tracked the releases - and you didn't have to be in some secret group - knew the release was coming. The betas for Vista were very public and didn't require an MSDN license to obtain either. The only thing that really caught people off guard was the change in the driver APIs that MS did at the last second which only affected those writing device drivers.

      Those developers didn't create the Vista Compatible/Ready fiasco. They didn't make UAC so damn annoying.

      Their failure to modify their applications to not require APIs that needed Admin Rights was what caused the UAC fiasco and made it so damn annoying.

      They didn't cause MS to throw out everything after years of development and start from scratch using a different kernel.

      You obviously know very little about the Vista codebase and its evolution and history.

      Vista is based on the same kernel series as WinXP - the NT Kernel. It was just the next major version (6.0).

      Yes, Microsoft had developed a version of Windows that it had scrapped - 3 years before Vista was released - and restarted the development cycle to produce Vista. But that restart was not a wholesale rewrite. It restarted from the WinXP codebase, refactored the APIs for better modularity, and added new features.

      The kernel that got scrapped was never released outside of a couple limited distribution alphas and betas. It never really entered the release cycle - other than demos that Microsoft did of WinFS and other stuff. It was too damn slow to be usable.

      The main areas of incompatibility between the NT5 (WinXP) and NT6 (Vista/7/8) kernels were that the sound and video drivers were moved from kernel space to user space to help improve stability. Most all other drivers were still compatible or only had minor changes required.

      Shit, I saw screenshots of longhorn back in 2004 man!

      MS told OEMs and developers it was years away and no really 2005 we will ship it just wait until 2005! ... ok No 2006. Beware Longhorn is coming and here is another preview as in 2006 will the year of longhorn ... oh and here is yet another API and driver thing you need to start over in etc.

      Hmm ... well longhorn can't be done. I guess it is the boy who cried wolf?

      Oh well, we will throw some pieces together and call it Vista. Yeah, Vista here is the release but trust us it will really be here in January 2007 (june 2006).

      Developers: LOL yeah right like you said the 3 other times. Go away MS we all know you wont give a release of Longhorn anytime soon. ... comes August (2006) and Balmer han

    50. Re:Gizmodo by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      The problem was DOS being a primptive piece of crap. Windows 95 had no concept of managed memory as dos apps still wrote whever they wanted and could GP fault another application.

      OS/2 Was sooo much better and MS still did not want to leave the 8088 users out for 15 damn years so Windows was compromised and couldn't be the OS it needed to be.

      So programmers got used to be admin/root all the time because you had too under Windows 98 and earlier. XP forced people to stop using assembly calls and use managed memory but the apis they used were from the IWndows 3.1/98 days and needed unfethered access.

      The problem was Microsoft and its shitty operating systems. Today they are better, but damn it took decades to get rid of the legacy stuff and compromised designs from old. Same issue why the corps still run IE 6 and IE 8 today. Old stuff refuses to die for many of Microsofts customers.

    51. Re:Gizmodo by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      OS/2 was a piece of garbage compared to Windows NT at the time.

    52. Re:Gizmodo by stoatwblr · · Score: 1
      "They got everybody hyped-up and then let Vista be installed on machine incapable of running it decently"

      It was worse than that. They DEGRADED the allowable specification after manufacturer pressure to hit certain price points. Vista booted up, but didn't "run" on the underspecced hardware, as much as asthmatically crawl.

      I would like to say that this glaring error is what forced them to go back and optimise for lower specced hardware on Win7, but it wasn't. The main driver for making Win7 leaner was the appearance of Netbooks, which emphatically would not run Vista at all.

      Even now I see a huge number of underspecced laptops on the market -something which apple won't allow. Most of MSes woes seem to be self-inflicted. (I'm no MS fan, but the OS does have some merits and it's certainly responsible for the ubiquitousness of personal computers today)

    53. Re:Gizmodo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RTM Vista had more than just driver problems and hardware requirements that MS failed to coordinate properly with PC OEMs. For example, I remember the rewritten TCP/IP stack failing in unusual ways on 64-bit systems. When a service pack essentially replaced the Vista NT 6.0 kernel with the Win7 NT 6.1 kernel, that indicated that there were a bunch of problems under the hood that were too much effort to correct in the Vista kernel. By comparison, no Windows 2000 SP replaced its NT 5.0 kernel with the NT 5.1 kernel from Windows XP.

      Vista added some really useful capabilities, like atomic registry and file APIs, and additional synchronization primitives, such as condition variables. But Vista, especially 64-bit, didn't get stable until MS backported the Win7 kernel into it.

      - T

    54. Re:Gizmodo by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

      Shit, I saw screenshots of longhorn back in 2004 man!

      FYI - Longhorn is just the code name for the next generation of Windows at Microsoft. Nothing more.
      When they re-started the development in 2005 for what became Vista, the new development was still called Longhorn.
      Confusing? Yes, but it's just an internal name - that because (very) visible during the post XP development.

      MS told OEMs and developers it was years away and no really 2005 we will ship it just wait until 2005! ... ok No 2006. Beware Longhorn is coming and here is another preview as in 2006 will the year of longhorn ... oh and here is yet another API and driver thing you need to start over in etc.

      Yeah, they did that pre-Vista development. Then they clammed up for a while (due to Ray Ozzie) for the Vista Development then started releasing Alphas and Betas and RCs. Betas and RCs were widely distributed - I ran two of them - and didn't required MSDN subscription. They even had bug bounties (report a bug, and you could get a free copy if you were the first or something - but you had to register to report, you couldn't just use the built-in reporting tools).

      The big issue was the change in the drivers between RC2 and RTM versions of Vista - where driver APIs changed with ZERO notice to the driver developers.

      And per the repeated delays - they were finding that the complexity of the codebase was making changes harder and harder to make. That is why with the restart for the Vista development that started going a major refactor of the codebase - eliminating dependencies, removing kernel dependencies on userspace, cleaning up headers, etc. That is also why Win7 and Win8 came out a lot quicker.

      Oh well, we will throw some pieces together and call it Vista. Yeah, Vista here is the release but trust us it will really be here in January 2007 (june 2006).

      Vista was not really thrown together at all. It was a major effort. Memory requirements sucked because it was largely un-optimized, but it was actually a very good release. A PITA to users b/c of UAC due to developers not heading a long advised change (since Win2000) that they should not be using APIs that require admin rights unless the absolutely have to, but otherwise a very very good release.

      UAC isn't really any different for Win7 or Win8 than it was for Vista. Developers just fixed the issues that required the admin access so it went away - the real purpose for UAC.

      Developers: LOL yeah right like you said the 3 other times. Go away MS we all know you wont give a release of Longhorn anytime soon. ... comes August (2006) and Balmer hands out the RTM of Visa.

      PHB: ok programmers you have 8 weeks to do 3 years worth of work to port your shitty XP program to vista?!

      In essence it was rushed and forced combined with the boy who cried wolf. MS did not commit fully until 6 weeks before RTM rushing Vista and removing Longhorn bits. A terrible terrible untested OS it was and no programs were ready yet.

      Not really.

      I used the Vista Betas and RCs, and was very surprised by the reports of the RTM version having issues with drivers until I learned they changed the driver APIs between RC2 and RTM. I had pulled drivers from several sources (Creative for my SB Audigy) and they worked great. But if you make a change like that they should also issue another RC to give people time to test and fix the bugs - but Microsoft didn't; probably because they were trying to make the christmas sales season at the behest of the PC manufacturers. They should have waited another month.

      Needless to say, aside from the device driver developers, everyone had more than sufficient notice about what Vista was going to be.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    55. Re:Gizmodo by Smauler · · Score: 1

      I'm not defending the Vista launch... it was a disaster. I agree with you that Vista certified hardware could not run Vista well. My system could, does, and has silly uptime.

    56. Re:Gizmodo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple keeps selling more smartphones, while Android wins in the feature phone replacement market.

    57. Re:Gizmodo by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      That was the original point of LongHorn - it was to be managed code throughout, as much as possible

      Ultimately most of the userland did end up that way didn't it?

      Maybe so, but not in LongHorn. The bastardization that followed? Yes.

      although the core was still to be NT

      So when you say they "fell back to the server 2003 kernel" what were they using?

      It started with the XP kernel. You knew this, why ask?

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    58. Re:Gizmodo by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Maybe so, but not in LongHorn. The bastardization that followed? Yes.

      So in the end they did deliver on that.

      It started with the XP kernel. You knew this, why ask?

      Huh? So you're saying they had originally planned to diverge the kernels and have different ones for client and server? I thought the 2003 kernel was the evolution of the XP one and all longhorn+ work came from that.

    59. Re:Gizmodo by smash · · Score: 1

      LOL. Nextstep was developed starting in 1984-1985.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    60. Re:Gizmodo by Tamerlin · · Score: 1

      Clueless much?

  2. Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by schlachter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It was easy for Apple to innovate a few years ago because they had no momentum in the space. They were agile and free to create. It's much harder to do that when you have a huge codebase that's a decade old, with hundreds of millions of users who have expectations of your product.

    Nonetheless, I can't help but think if Jobs was still around, there would be more exciting stuff in the pipeline.

    --
    My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
    1. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by MLRScaevola · · Score: 2

      Jobs died almost two years ago (wow, that long already). Most likely, he at least gave some pipeline ideas to Cook and co. which are being worked on now. I figure that Apple still has maybe three more years of Jobs' 'ideas from the grave' left before we really get to see if they can keep doing interesting things. They've probably had to wrangle with this for a while now, and I can't help but think that the solution to their problems is just to find someone capable of projecting a new Reality Distortion Field.

    2. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, yes and no.

      People were pretty hung up about their physical keyboards. Apple had some convincing to do in the on-screen keyboard space. they overcame that.

      At first there was no app-store and no 3rd party apps breaking form the norm of every other device. the web app model was a joke. Eventually the prevailing attitude broke them and now they have made billions by succumbing to the existing inertia.

    3. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes, but this is a corporate management problem, not a technical one. Go read the sad history of Xerox where, at one point, they needed the signatures of 47 managers to make a change to a copier, as hungrier companies cranked out modern innovations.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    4. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean Jobs is the one that spends all of his time looking at what other companies are making, stealing blue-prints, and pretending everything Apple copy didn't exist elsewhere long before and was invented in 1 Infinite Loop?

      Apple's new products are going to be a TV and a watch. iPhones are already looked very dated, and Macs are following PCs down the slippery slope of what people have is good enough, even though Apple kill a generation with each OS upgrade. Tablets aren't in vogue any more, people rarely upgrade whatever platform they choose. The masses have grown past the novelty, at least the middle classes have. The poor will still enjoy them for a few months at some point, but they can't afford $500 toys.

      We already have smart watches, and TVs have long has SoC that allow app stores and comprehensive media support. Of course, Apple's will have a premium price and the fans will lap them up, but that won't scale. TVs are already at the bottom of the mass market, and few people bother with watches that aren't bald or with grey hair. Apple's screens are also made by others, mostly Samsung, so why not just by a Sammy?

      Apple's stock is falling month upon month. They have a huge cash pile, but unless they buy something substantial, they'll slip away, again.

    5. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2

      Please. Vista bumbled badly based on what MS did. Let's take compatibility: at the last minute, they reversed course on hardware requirement so that Vista Basic could be released and, of course, didn't take the effort clearly explain to consumers that Vista Basic was barely Vista. UAC needed many more refinements. But like all things MS they released it anyway and worried about SP1 later. They've done that with all their releases before but time the incompleteness was obvious to consumers. They didn't learn that lesson with Win 8. Some here question the whole strategy of shoehorning a tablet UI onto a desktop but 8 is almost bipolar in its approach. Some things are tablet; some things are still desktop. And there isn't a reason why. 8.1 is supposedly the savior but I don't see it.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    6. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by CanHasDIY · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nonetheless, I can't help but think if Jobs was still around, there would be more exciting stuff in the pipeline.

      Perhaps... but equally likely, there would be some regular stuff in the pipeline that seemed exciting, because Jobs was hands-down one of the best marketers to ever walk the face of the Earth.

      I'll leave it to the reader to decide whether that's a compliment or insult.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    7. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by Maury+Markowitz · · Score: 2

      > It's much harder to do that when you have a huge codebase that's a decade old

      Very much agreed. But it's not just Apple, it's the entire category.

      The iPhone was the big bang of smartphones. Everything after that was, to a great degree, an iPhone.

      There has certainly been some innovation in this space since. Apple's introduced retina, siri, passbook. Google's got Now, which is really under-utilized so far I think, and will likely become dramatically more important in the future IMHO. We have always-on from Moto, Nokia's cameras, Sony's waterproofing, etc. All of these are real advances.

      But the problem is that each of these is "here or there". As such, they represent only minor incremental improvements (with the exception of Now and Siri perhaps) that are being applied to only one or another platform. These are, sadly, features, not paradigms.

    8. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by timeOday · · Score: 2

      You say that as if momentum were bad! Compare. Microsoft has been raking in at least a billion in profit per year, year, for 15 years. Apple, meanwhile, for about last 5. Do you see any of Apple's current products that wedged so deep into every business process out there that they will almost surely still be profiting $1BN / year a decade from now, as Microsoft has ALREADY done? I don't. Apple is never more than about 2 bum product releases away from losing money. Microsoft has already done that many times over :)

    9. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by timeOday · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There is NO WAY Apple doesn't have something much more innovative than the iPhone 5s in the pipeline. I say this not as a fan of Apple, but simply because Tim Cook has $145,000,000,000 (yes, billions) burning a hole in his pocket, with nothing more to do than prove to the world that he's just as wonderful as Steve was. Worst case, Apple bleeds cash throwing one desparate hail mary after another, but there is no way they will just fall on the ball.

    10. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But like all things MS they released it anyway and worried about SP1 later.

      A strategy Apple have copied, Snow Leopard was essentially a Leopard service pack that fixed a bunch of bugs while adding very little of anything else, the same goes for Lion with Mountain Lion. The first iterations were horribly buggy and unstable but the service releases were much better.

    11. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by exomondo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Frankly the new Mac Pro says to me that they are just about out of innovation (at least in that space). It's a desktop computer where the core components are virtually non-upgradeable, now maybe that's ok but what do you get in return for that compromise? Not much, sure it's smaller but when has that been a problem for desktops? It's basically a more powerful mac mini.

      It sacrifices front-facing ports in the name of aesthetics and deals with that compromise by giving you the ability to rotate it to get to the back, now that is assuming you actually enough slack sitting on your desk to pull the cables of all your peripherals around.

      That product really is an exercise in being different for the sake of it with virtually no measurable advantage.

    12. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by Clsid · · Score: 2

      If you don't like the product that's fine, but to a lot of people, myself included the Mac Pro is one of the best desktop designs in years. The cooling solution alone was extremely creative, not to mention that both monster video cards can benefit from it as well.

      With a custom built PC if you try to pull the same stuff you end up with so many cables and will probably need a 700W psu.

    13. Re: Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by je+ne+sais+quoi · · Score: 1

      The new mac pro is likely to be very quiet. I know, this isn't something we think about as much as the specs., but as someone who has their home/media/gaming rig humming behind them, quiet is good. Same goes for work, if I'm running all the cores 100% and can still have a conversation in my office or listen to classical music without headphone or annoying my neighbor, that's a good thing. I've considered buying an apple tv or mac mini for media, but I have enough computers around already (probably too many) and if I can have my cake and eat it too with media and high framerate gaming on a single machine, I'm all for it. So the mac pro is innovative, despite your assertion, it just doesn't innovate in a way you would want.

      I couldn't care less about expandability, long ago I figured out that rather than upgrade my machines later in life, I just "upgrade" them when purchasing them and then don't worry about it for five years or so until the purchase (incidentally, is it just me or is lifetime of PCs getting longer?).

      --
      Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
    14. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You took Apple's "no new features for Snow Leopard" claim too literally. Snow Leopard moved to 64 bits for the kernel and most of the built-in applications, the Finder was (finally!) rewritten from scratch in Cocoa, and Grand Central Dispatch and OpenCL were added, in addition to a bunch of other tweaks. Those are not "fixed a bunch of bugs," although none of them are directly visible to the user.

    15. Re: Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by exomondo · · Score: 1

      So the mac pro is innovative, despite your assertion, it just doesn't innovate in a way you would want.

      You've set the bar for 'innovation' pretty low, I think you'd be hard pressed to find any product that isn't innovative by your standard, I don't think the idea that 'new mac pro is likely to be very quiet' is particularly innovative, even if it is true. My new HP workstation is a lot quieter than my old one and my new macbook pro is a lot quieter than my old one, I don't consider that particularly innovative.

    16. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by exomondo · · Score: 2

      If you don't like the product that's fine, but to a lot of people, myself included the Mac Pro is one of the best desktop designs in years.

      It's not that i don't like it, it's that compared to its predecessor the only real benefit is that it's smaller and it might be quieter, but at the cost of being less accessible, less convenient and less upgradeable. It's not that it's a bad product, it's just that in all but the superficial areas its design is worse than its predecessor, if the superficial things are all you're worried about and you don't care about its compromises then maybe it's fine for you. I was hoping to replace my ancient mac pro with a new one but the inability to swap the graphics cards is deal breaker.

    17. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by rtb61 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yep, without Jobs, there is no one left around Apple to go wandering around and steal ideas and claim them as his own, quite as effectively as Jobs could.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    18. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      It's a desktop computer where the core components are virtually non-upgradeable, now maybe that's ok but what do you get in return for that compromise?

      Because most computers are replaced before they have their motherboards/cpu's upgraded. It's like with user-replaceable batteries on mp3 players: sure, it sounds like a nice feature, and some people still act like it's a crime against humanity to have a sealed one, but 80-90% of the market just doesn't care.

      I was hoping to replace my ancient mac pro with a new one but the inability to swap the graphics cards is deal breaker.

      Being able to drive three 4k displays isn't enough? More if you use the expansion capabilities of Thunderbolt? Then like with mp3 player batteries, go ahead and buy whatever is out that does do what you want, as Apple isn't holding a gun to anyone's head.

    19. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Because most computers are replaced before they have their motherboards/cpu's upgraded.

      But certainly not graphics cards (or RAM for that matter, but it seems you can replace that).

      but 80-90% of the market just doesn't care.

      Which is why the iMac was created to serve that market.

      Being able to drive three 4k displays isn't enough? More if you use the expansion capabilities of Thunderbolt?

      There's more to graphics cards than how many displays they can drive. And using thunderbolt just means more cables and more boxes on the desk which of course creates a cluttered nightmare when the only ports are at the back and you have to rotate it around pulling all the plugged in cables with it.

    20. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Really? I don't remember the gads of horrible coverage about how Macs suddenly were slow and start blue-screening all over the place. I don't remember people complaining that their Macs pestered them about permissions. Every OS has problems. The ones with Vista are so bad that people do remember them.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    21. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really?

      Yes.

      I don't remember the gads of horrible coverage about how Macs suddenly were slow and start blue-screening all over the place. I don't remember people complaining that their Macs pestered them about permissions.

      So it seems youre also the sort of idiot that claims macs dont get viruses because they dont get the same viruses as windows pcs. I dont remember people complaining about their windows pcs suffering kernel panics like macs do either.

      Every OS has problems.

      Yes.

    22. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't understand what innovation is because it seems you have fixed definitions of what (in this case) 'a desktop computer' means. When your referencepoint of things is only 'what they used to be', you can hardly come up with fresh new approaches.

      Something ironically much Slashdotters suffer from.

      "That's not a cellphone. It has no buttons!"

    23. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashdot Heretic!

      According to Slashdot scripture Jobs was nothing more than a marketer and vendor of baubles

      Get back on message heretic, this is your last warning

    24. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I'm not saying Vista was slow and annoying to use, but it was a huge step forward for Windows and the both TFA and you seem to be missing that. MS deserve some credit for what they did, even if it didn't turn out to be particularly good. At the very least it was a necessary step on the road to Windows 7.

      Vista fixed most of the long standing security issues. They stopped everyone running as admin by default and prevent apps from dumping files all over the filesystem. UAC was annoying but the idea was to train developers to write software that created as few prompts as possible, and thus behaved well. It largely worked as well, even if it did piss users off a great deal.

      The new hardware accelerated UI and driver model was a major improvement as well. Vista can recover from the graphics card driver crashing, and the driver itself mostly runs in user space so security vulnerabilities are much less of an issue. They ditched a lot of legacy stuff too, like the gameport and some 16 bit APIs.

      In some ways Apple has reached the same point. They have to bring in big new features to move forwards, and with their existing code base it's hard to do so. True multitasking in iOS, perhaps a UI model that isn't based on a growing number of fixed resolutions. iOS apps on the desktop maybe. I'm sure they will do it, my only point is that TFA is wrong on both counts.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    25. Re: Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, cheap and silent liquid cooling solutions haven't been around for years or anything...

    26. Re: Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The new mac pro is likely to be very quiet. I know, this isn't something we think about as much as the specs.,

      The maching has no front-facing ports, so there's no reason not to put it into a cabinet with a five dollar exhaust fan added. That'll eliminate the noise no matter what the computer looks like. You're going to want to put the machine behind a door anyway if you have upgraded it to an actual pro level through the necessary gigantic stack of external crap, as each of those items will have its own fan, the HDD noise won't be muffled as much by an external case as it would be by an actual PC case, et cetera.

      It's a fact that Apple's new Mac Pro is a fucking gimmick that loses features from the prior version. Thunderbolt is no replacement for some proper PCIE slots.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    27. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by uglyduckling · · Score: 2

      So it seems youre also the sort of idiot that claims macs dont get viruses because they dont get the same viruses as windows pcs.

      I'm that sort of idiot. I've run three Mac systems (2 laptops and a desktop for a while) over the past 5 years with no resident antivirus protection, and I've had 0 viruses. I've been in cybercafes on at least 4 different continents, hundreds of different WiFi networks, plugged hard drives and memory sticks in from all sorts of people, and never had a problem. I've never recommended antivirus software to any of the many people I've suggested buy a Mac, and none of them have ever come back to me with a messed up machine to sort out - the closest anyone has come was a hard drive failure after about 3 years of use. So, yes, I think "Macs don't get viruses" is a factually correct statement for all practical purposes, at least for the time being.

    28. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      please.

      Around 2007 was the biggest confirmation of Apple basically becoming Microsoft, not a sign of innovation. The fact that today their strategy consists of "work with microsoft and litigate Microsoft's competitors" is as clear as any indication that Apple has every intention to become MS. The fact that they apparently successfully lobby the government to overturn basically a guilty conviction by the ITC while claiming it is samsung who is the abuser sends a clear message as to whether the company intends to be innovative/competitive/create new things. The fact that their marketshare is steadily decreasing shows which route they are going.

      What do you think jobs "we're declaring war on android" was, or the original iphone itself? Those weren't creative, as shown by *tons* of models of phones and devices that had similar interfaces right around the same time. It's to deny history to fail to acknowledge that apple wasn't the first, or the best. The only thing apple has ever done well is marketing, not making better products. If they wanted superior hardware alone (even today), they'd buy Microsoft products over apple.

    29. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      All machines may suffer from malware. However with the Unix style of permissions, OS X and Linux are unlikely to suffer from true viruses. Trojans are far more likely. As for kernel attacks, you've never heard of the Blue Screen of Death? What world do you live in?

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    30. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      It has always been the modus operandi for MS to release a real buggy first version and fix it later. That's why most professionals wait till SP1. With Vista, the bugs were not just annoying. They made some systems unusable. And not just bugs, settings as well. UAC was toned down significantly in patches. When asked my opinion, I told people to skip Vista and wait for 7. That's when MS fixes most of Vista's issues in my opinion. How MS could charge full upgrade price for Vista --> 7 upgrade is beyond me.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    31. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As for kernel attacks, you've never heard of the Blue Screen of Death?

      of course i have, you started your willful ignorance with saying macs dont get the blue screen of death, well no shit, they get kernel panics (which are basically the same thing just presented differently) which were all over the place (particularly with mountain lion) and now youve backflipped to saying that a kernel panic and blue screen of death are the same thing. BSODs were all over the place with Vista and Kernel Panics were all over the place with Mountain Lion, i know, i had both!

    32. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're thinking in terms of a PC user...

    33. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by exomondo · · Score: 1

      You don't understand what innovation is because it seems you have fixed definitions of what (in this case) 'a desktop computer' means. When your referencepoint of things is only 'what they used to be', you can hardly come up with fresh new approaches.

      Wrong, the iPhone and iPad were innovative (the former more so than the latter), the pixel-doubling approach to retina display compatibility was innovative, the new mac pro isn't an innovative product (the cooling system, yes, but that comes at the cost of everything else), we already have a system - which Apple even make - that is self-contained, virtually non-upgradeable and uses external ports for expansion, it's called a Macbook Pro!

    34. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When your referencepoint of things is only 'what they used to be', you can hardly come up with fresh new approaches.

      and when youre so desperate to call everything with an apple logo "innovation" you ignore all the things about it that are worse than its predecessor. forget that all the ports are inaccessible at teh back and since all the expansion is external its just a mess of cables so when you rotate it to get at the ports everything is gonna be a tangled mess because look at how it cools itself ooooooooohhhhhhh

      a lot of apple stuff is awesome innovation but that doesnt mean you have to love *everything* they do and claim *everyting* they do is innovative

    35. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      It is a good thing Linux or MacOSX never get malware. It is not like flashback or anything has ever hit such users.

      You sir are a fool and a prime target to hit if I were a bank trojan writer. Windows users keep their systems updated and run AV software but you on the otherhand are a prime picking.

      This myth needs to end before someone losses all their money from the next Mac or Linux banking trojan.

    36. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      All machines may suffer from malware. However with the Unix style of permissions, OS X and Linux are unlikely to suffer from true viruses. Trojans are far more likely. As for kernel attacks, you've never heard of the Blue Screen of Death? What world do you live in?

      Not true.

      Windows has the most secure kernel options available rivaling even OpenBSD and sitll has issues. Look up buffer overflows, priveldge escalation, heap spraying, and other techniques?

      Just because you are a limited user does not mean something can't write something in a ram address of a root app or service and then execute? There are loopholes and ways with timing known as branching or breaching as SSL can be over run too.

      Windows style permissions are VMS and more advanced than Unix believe it or not regardless of what the slashdotters say. An admin user for example does not even have full admin access but rather has a token to give to the true admin to run something just as an example enforced with UAC.

      What is changing though is many malware writers are targetting Linux and MACOSX. They are easy targets because they refuse to run anti virus software with a smile and refuse to believe they are infected when they truly are.

      Windows may have 100x as many users but Windows is getting so much secure and the users keep them up to date with AV software that is easier to pick on the 1% in greater numbers.

    37. Re:Shifting paradigms is easy with no momentum by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      Thankfully, as I have a reading age greater that 7, I can spot a trojan. Keeping my system updated or running updated AV won't make a difference to that.

  3. Of course they aren't... by Zalbik · · Score: 5, Funny

    Of course Apple isn't the next Microsoft

    Microsoft used shady business practices to destroy competitors and thereby screw the customer.

    Apple cuts out the middle-man, and just screws the customer directly.

    1. Re:Of course they aren't... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're saying Google is the next Microsoft?

    2. Re:Of course they aren't... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No google is the next NSA or maybe the previous NSA. I'm a little confused on the timing.

    3. Re:Of course they aren't... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course apple isn't the next Microsoft that job is reserved for google.

    4. Re:Of course they aren't... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course Apple isn't the next Microsoft

      Microsoft used shady business practices to destroy competitors and thereby screw the customer.

      Apple cuts out the middle-man, and just screws the customer directly.

      Apple has healthy competition. If anything, customers screw themselves in this environment.
      Personally, it's a matter of choice, and we inarguably have tons of it, and I prefer Apple stuff to most.

  4. Agree. Apple isn't the Next Microsoft... by faragon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... Apple is the Next Apple without Steve Jobs, again.

  5. apple profits from every product, MS doesn't by alen · · Score: 4, Informative

    MS has lost billions of $$$ on bing, x-box and other experiments funded by Windows and Office license sales which are now slowing and decreasing. microsoft has been innovating for years but not profitably. they had commercial tablets before apple, mobile devices and cloud services long before cloud became a buzz word.

    apple on the other hand has a rule that every product must be profitable. even the apple tv turns a small profit.

    1. Re:apple profits from every product, MS doesn't by asmkm22 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is a good point. People are quick to confuse Apple with a company that actually innovates and pushes boundaries and stuff, when in fact, they just release highly-polished (and sometimes very well-timed) products that are often 5 or 10 years old.

    2. Re:apple profits from every product, MS doesn't by StripedCow · · Score: 2

      Spot on. Much of the research is open too. Have a look at http://research.microsoft.com/
      Then point me the equivalent of Apple.

      --
      If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
    3. Re:apple profits from every product, MS doesn't by CAIMLAS · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem Microsoft has is that they stopped being a company that has innovative products a long time ago - arguably they never started, because their 'traditional' linear products (OS, Office) had too much momentum.

      Look at Microsoft Research, for instance. The one notable product to come out of that is the Kinect and related technologies. We've seen MS ads now for years for something similar to SketchInsight, which looks incredible - but no working POC for anyone to ogle or demo. This would be a Killer App in a heartbeat for pretty much everyone I know - and the missing link that MS has so much needed for Windows 'tablets' for the past decade.

      Then you've got things like their AI and machine learning research, as well as OS research projects. Those show promise, but don't see much light in marketable products. Imagine what MS could've done with "Windows Mobile/Phone" had they not focused on changing UI paradigms against peoples' will?

      The biggest thing MS has going for them at this point is their vendor lock-in, and it's much worse than we feared it could be back in the 1990s. "Cloud services" were so far in the future they weren't really conceived. Today, we've got everything in the MS stack integrating tightly with Office 365 - and Exchange is most certainly the worst offender in this regard, with much of the traditional functionality available in 2003 and 2008, and fixed greatly in 2008, gone again for O365 integration. If you're a MS shop, you're more or less stuck, and options for migrating that data off their platforms diminishes as time goes on simply by the motion of the machine - regardless of any actual, needed features present in the upgraded products. (When was the last time you've heard of someone upgrading MS products for anything other than 'compatibility with everyone else, and bug/security fixes'?

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    4. Re:apple profits from every product, MS doesn't by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      MS has lost billions of $$$ on bing, x-box and other experiments funded by Windows and Office license sales which are now slowing and decreasing. microsoft has been innovating for years but not profitably.

      Yet another search engine and yet another game console don't really count as major innovations. Also, consider this.

      they had commercial tablets before apple

      Apple launched the Newton MessagePad in 1993.

    5. Re:apple profits from every product, MS doesn't by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2

      Well, most people associate innovation==something brand new when innovation can be improving on something existing. Apple's strength has been to bring hard to use technology to consumers. Case in point: OS X is a Unix core with a consumer GUI on top.

      MP3 players existed before the iPod and they simply were hard to use for most consumers. I think the four things that Apple did right was:

      1. Treat media as media and not merely files. Media that has metadata like Title, date, album, genre, etc.
      2. Reduce syncing to one step
      3. Scroll wheel
      4. Bundle player with software that can make and manage MP3s. With my other player, I had to find and use 4 different programs to accomplish the same thing.
      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    6. Re:apple profits from every product, MS doesn't by tlhIngan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is a good point. People are quick to confuse Apple with a company that actually innovates and pushes boundaries and stuff, when in fact, they just release highly-polished (and sometimes very well-timed) products that are often 5 or 10 years old.

      Correct. But that discounts the importance of polish and timing.

      Polish is very important - a technical feature is completely pointless if people don't use it, can't use it, or are unable to figure it out.

      Timing is important in business because, as Apple will see this year, people get bored. Releasing product all at once in the fall seems like a great idea but damn the other 3 quarters where everyone bitches about "not innovating".

      The iPod is an example of both - polish in that it was a player with tons of storage, in a formfactor that was convenient for a lot of people. At a time when MP3 players were JUST taking off, Apple produces something that has a slick UI (the wheel makes navigating through huge lists quickly), slick syncing (firewire, when most computers sported USB1.1) and iTunes (making it stupidly easy to manipulate your music library and convert your CDs to MP3s). A couple of years later they tossed in the iTunes store, bringing the music industry into the 21st century, kicking and screaming.

      The iPhone brought polish to smartphones. In the name of Mobile Safari. Because until then, most mobile browsers were crap (I had one with Opera Mobile - the better ones, but it was slow and was showing its age).

      The iPad brought polish to tablets - because instead of crappy lets-run-Windows, it ran iOS which was more adapted to touchscreens than even OS X is. Sure you could run OS X on a tablet, but the experience was mediocre at best - GUI concepts and designs for mouse and keyboard just don't translate well to pen and touches.

      Hell, the iPhone wasn't considered revolutionary - Apple hoped it would maybe get 1% of the market, or 1 million phones. (It took 77 days to hit 1 million). Of course, the 3G sold 1 million opening weekend, despite well know problems.

      The iPad was universally panned - it was so bad, Jobs even said they'd cut the price if it didn't sell well.

      And the iPod, well. The millionth iPod sold in 2003, and by then it was the 3rd gen iPod with dock connector.

      Don't discount polish. When people say things look "inconsistent" or "work poorly", it doesn't matter how big the numbers are on the spec sheet - the user ends up forgoing those features. Open source is primarily bad at this (often because non-programmers are discounted - this includes technical writers, designers, and testers - yes, it's your itch, but when users complain something works badly and could be better, perhaps it could go from "your itch" to "everyone's itch" and not "try this alternative").

    7. Re:apple profits from every product, MS doesn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MS has lost billions of $$$ on bing, x-box and other experiments funded by Windows and Office license sales which are now slowing and decreasing. microsoft has been innovating for years but not profitably. they had commercial tablets before apple, mobile devices and cloud services long before cloud became a buzz word.

      apple on the other hand has a rule that every product must be profitable. even the apple tv turns a small profit.

      If Microsoft really focused on their core instead of trying to wedge itself into every other market tangentially related to technology, they could really do some great things.

    8. Re:apple profits from every product, MS doesn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      More innovative than anyone else in their class. I know it would burn your ass to admit it but Apple is the best game in town when it comes down to accessible technology that just works from a reputable vendor. I was an Apple hater until about a year ago and my frustrations with getting things to work right have gone by the wayside since I gave them an honest go.

    9. Re:apple profits from every product, MS doesn't by djnanite · · Score: 1

      This is a good point. People are quick to confuse Apple with a company that actually innovates and pushes boundaries and stuff, when in fact, they just release highly-polished (and sometimes very well-timed) products that are often 5 or 10 years old.

      For example...?

    10. Re:apple profits from every product, MS doesn't by Ryanrule · · Score: 1

      Um, the Xbox has made fat wads of cash.

    11. Re:apple profits from every product, MS doesn't by jbengt · · Score: 1

      Not so, XBox has lost wads of cash, overall.

    12. Re:apple profits from every product, MS doesn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm.... Microsoft has been making loads of money with Xbox for the past few years now...

    13. Re:apple profits from every product, MS doesn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not so, XBox has lost wads of cash, overall.

      Citation? Im pretty sure by now they have made a lot more than they spent.

    14. Re:apple profits from every product, MS doesn't by Clsid · · Score: 1

      To be fair, the research that Microsoft have done in language translation is impressive. I would even say that Bing translator is a tad better than Google translation.

    15. Re:apple profits from every product, MS doesn't by Smauler · · Score: 1

      Microsoft got OS lock in for a reason, and it wasn't just shoddy business practices. Win 95, 98, 2k, and XP were better than their competitors, for home users.

      Now, Windows is not better, and they're losing market share all the time. Office 365 is an attempt to keep their standards in one segment, but it may not succeed.

    16. Re:apple profits from every product, MS doesn't by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Citation? Im pretty sure by now they have made a lot more than they spent.

      Here.

    17. Re:apple profits from every product, MS doesn't by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Correct. But that discounts the importance of polish and timing.

      He's not correct. Because "polish" is just another word for.....innovation. Like the "polish" with the first iPod, though you left out the microdrive (everything else used tiny flash memory or far more bulky notebook/desktop drives). And the 400 Mpbs interface when everything else used 11 Mpbs USB or parallel.

    18. Re:apple profits from every product, MS doesn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      >Open source is primarily bad at this (often because non-programmers are discounted - this includes technical writers, designers, and testers - yes, >it's your itch, but when users complain something works badly and could be better, perhaps it could go from "your itch" to "everyone's itch" and >not "try this alternative").

      The other reason that Open source is bad at this is because it's *hard* to do and requires a whole set of other skills - if it's not the main focus of your efforts throughout the development process, then the results will be poor from a usability perspective.

      I don't blame many of these developers for skipping that side of things because it can be boring and tedious work, and cause you to drop
      much loved features as they are really hard to integrate, in a usable manner, into the final product.

    19. Re:apple profits from every product, MS doesn't by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 1

      Apple launched the Newton MessagePad in 1993.

      And Psion had the Organizer II in 1984... and the Series III in 1991. While not tablets in the modern sense, they were no less tablets than the Newton.

    20. Re:apple profits from every product, MS doesn't by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      Not trying to sound dismissive, but I am inclined to think of those as a different kind of device. The MessagePad eschewed the keyboard, it was all about the touch screen, so it was closer to the typical modern tablet.

  6. Nope, it is the other way around though. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft are becoming the next Apple. Terrible sales on expensive devices and services.

    To the fuuutu-ah!
    Nice knowing you Microsoft.

  7. as far as beverage containers go... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I prefer a frosty mug

  8. Re:Apple is overrated by Chompjil · · Score: 1

    Try MATE or Xfce

    --
    People once told me 68K ram was all we needed,
  9. these are symptoms, also frost pist by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    The cause is beret-wearing UX asshats. They never knew that the GUI was invented as a functional tool because it was discovered that command lines are a fucking mystery to most people.

    Because they don't know what a GUI is actually for, and because they grew up with ones that did the job competently even if they weren't works of art, they focus on making it pretty or kewl or whatever and forget to make it usable.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re:these are symptoms, also frost pist by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      As a 3D Graphics, UI, and UX expert I 100% agree!

      The majority of UX (sic.) people don't understand BOTH the pros & cons to GUI compared to the Command Line. They both have DIFFERENT strengths and weaknesses that _complement_ one another.

      Voice is a crappy UI because it has the same problem as the command line: It is an *invisible* interface. You don't know what your choices are until AFTER you are familiar with the system. On the command line we have tools like tab-completion and 'man' to help the beginner. The garbage OSes don't provide examples; the better ones like BSD *do* provide examples. Command line interfaces trade "easy-learning-curve" for "efficiency". We don't kvitch about their design because they were designed for *different* purposes.

      The GUI is very good for beginners because they can literally see (all) of their choices but for the power user it is slow. Things like hot keys / shortcuts (which seem to be almost extinct these days in the _help_ file) empower the power user so they can actually focus on functionality.

      iOS 7 is a HORRIBLE design because it fails THE fundamental goal of *good* UI.

      Good UIs maximize the Signal-Noise ratio.
      Poor UIs minimize the signal and maximize the noise.

      Desaturating the icons it makes it harder for someone to focus on the signal -- everything is one big noise. FAIL. Good UI designers use silhouette, color, contrast to ALL AUGMENT one another.

      Microsoft has *never* understand good UI -- especially with the idiotic "one Tablet size fits all" -- uh, NO. When the finally (re)move the stupid Close button away from the Minimize / Maximize buttons then _maybe_ they will start to understand. One of the few things Microsoft hasn't fucked up is Office on OS X. I get *both* the Menu bar AND the ribbon bar. As a user it empowers me as I can chose which form of interaction works efficiently for me.

      A *great* UI focuses on BOTH beginners AND power users. Sadly UX don't have a clue. They focus on Form over Function instead when it should be Form Augments Function.

      Don't get me started on how the majority of UX completely fail to understand the importance of 60 Hz vs 30 Hz.

    2. Re:these are symptoms, also frost pist by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

      The majority of UX (sic.) people don't understand BOTH the pros & cons to GUI compared to the Command Line. They both have DIFFERENT strengths and weaknesses that _complement_ one another.

      Why is that comment in a thread about mobile phone interfaces? CLI is not a reasonable interface on a phone with no hardware qwerty keyboard. Not even as a complement. As a niche legacy app for people that want to telnet onto some nix machine, UI. But it doesn't and shouldn't have any relevance to the UI of the phone itself.

      It does though tip me off that the nature of your UI taste is classic unix. And makes your opinion on phone UIs not particularly worthwhile.

      Desaturating the icons it makes it harder for someone to focus on the signal -- everything is one big noise. FAIL.

      Is about as useful as someone saying "3x3 pixel font? FAIL". As you showed yourself recently, it all depends on context. And "FAIL" is the mark of an ill-thought out comment.

    3. Re:these are symptoms, also frost pist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      M$ understood good ui design back in the early 90's. Its been downhill ever since. Things like putting the close box next to the min/max (win98), hiding the alt key shortcuts in the menus (xp), loss of icon/text duality, etc... Now we have win8 which is shockingly like window286. The whole decade of the 80's was focused on human/computer interaction studies... All that is lost because someone comes along and decides that putting little visual clues in the gui isn't cool looking and "clutters" it up whi,e creating cool looking but horrible things like frosted glass.

    4. Re:these are symptoms, also frost pist by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > Why is that comment in a thread about mobile phone interfaces?
      Because if you don't understand the _context_ how do you expect to know what TO do AND what NOT to do??

      > Is about as useful as someone saying "3x3 pixel font? FAIL
      Do you even understand the concept of "experiment" ?

      Unless you know the _limitations_ of UI, hardware, and basic human physiology you will never understand UI's strengths and weakness.

        > And "FAIL" is the mark of an ill-thought out comment.
        Epic Fail. Your *opinion* in this context is worthless. Please go troll elsewhere.

    5. Re:these are symptoms, also frost pist by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Because if you don't understand the _context_ how do you expect to know what TO do AND what NOT to do??

      CLI is not part of the the context of phone UIs.

      Is about as useful as someone saying "3x3 pixel font? FAIL
      Do you even understand the concept of "experiment" ?

      Huh? I wasn't saying fail. Quite the opposite.

      Epic Fail. Your *opinion* in this context is worthless. Please go troll elsewhere.

      Oh dear.

    6. Re:these are symptoms, also frost pist by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > CLI is not part of the the context of phone UIs.

      I _already_ explained why it is relevant. Please learn to read.

      Voice is a crappy UI because it has the same problem as the command line: It is an *invisible* interface.

    7. Re:these are symptoms, also frost pist by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      It's not the reader with the problem. It's the writer. Your post might have made sense to you. But not to others. It still doesn't.

  10. Re:Apple is overrated by Bradmont · · Score: 1

    Try KDE? Or LXDE? Or E17? Or OpenBox? Or xmonad? Or the command line? Or any of the myriad other UI options you have available to you in any Linux distribution?

  11. Comes to show to trust NO ONE by Billly+Gates · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There was a time back in 1999 in the good old days of slashdot and IT where I had a debate with someone over how evil MS and Bill Gates were.

    Back then MS was unstoppable! If investors found out MS was going to compete agaisnt you then your stock would be shorted as no one could stop the all powerful Microsoft!

    I mentioned if Steve Jobs won the world would be heaven. No more expensive crap. Free standards galore. No more DRM with .WMV and IE 5.5 dictating the future of computing. Apple was cheered as the good guys trying to stop the DRM madness of RealPlayer and Windows Media Player. Remember?Fastforward today and I think Steve Jobs is fucking a more greedy monster than Bill Gates ever was. True their products are better quality and more UI and consumer data is put into products before being released, but man they charge and lock you in.

    What Changed?
    Itunes gave Apple a financial incentive for DRM and lock in. Apple monopolized the mp3 market and almost the phone before Android did a quick rescue. Their Macs are falling behind as more effort is on consumer gadgets these days.

    Would I want a Google only world? Fuck no equally

    Chrome's webkit is not W3C compliant compared to IE and Firefox with its extensions and some sites that only work with Chrome when you turn on HTML 5. If they owned 93% of the market ala IE 6 from 2003, you can bet javascript would go bye bye for whateverthefuck script that they invented, sites would not render properly if you used advanced features, and Google would ignore W3C and put Google Store as the master of the e-commerce universe!

    I would not want just Android phones either streaming ads from Google servers 100% of the time, nor would shop owners want to pay 300% more for ad revenue as they would ahve a monopoly on this.

    Business and greed is evil. We are all greedy and evil ourselves with a shade of gray. It is our human nature sadly. Competition frees us, though I do have to say I am disappointed in all web browsers recently and kind of miss Firefox when is owned just 15% of the market but maybe that is because IE sucked so bad then it seemed like heaven?

    1. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by rolfwind · · Score: 5, Informative

      Itunes gave Apple a financial incentive for DRM and lock in.

      Um what, they pushed to get music publisher's to sell tracks without DRM. As for video, where can you get video without DRM? Netflix? Amazon? Huh?

    2. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What Changed?
      Apple monopolized the mp3 market and almost the phone before Android did a quick rescue.

      Apple was late to both of those games and did some serious trouncing in both, to their credit. Where they have gone with that is another story.

    3. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      To be fair, they sell non-DRM'ed music now.

    4. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Informative

      I mentioned if Steve Jobs won the world would be heaven. No more expensive crap. Free standards galore. No more DRM with .WMV and IE 5.5 dictating the future of computing

      I have no idea why you thought that. Remember Steve Jobs was the same one who ripped off Woz back in the day. He sued for UI lookalike rights. He got in a fight with the FSF over gcc. If you thought Jobs would be all roses and heaven it's because you weren't paying attention.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    5. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Itunes gave Apple a financial incentive for DRM and lock in. Apple monopolized the mp3 market ...

      http://www.apple.com/ca/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/

    6. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Compared to old Microsoft he surely was a godsend at least in user quality and we were excited about having a unix that worked on the desktop that was fucking gorgeous for its time.

      My point is you can't trust them once they are in absolute power. My views of MS warmed up after Windows 7, Office 2010, and IE 9 a few years ago as I saw them as their best products in a long time. ... then came Windows 8 :-(

      But because they are no longer a gorilla in the room it is not as threatening as consumers have choice now. Apple is not cool anymore here on slashdot like they were 10 years ago.

    7. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by tooslickvan · · Score: 1

      I think the reality distortion field must have hit you pretty hard. Apple has been accused of producing expensive crap ever since the Lisa and Macintosh were sold. Apple has never been a big proponent of free or open standards; they have been using propriety standards for Macs, iPods, and iPhones since their creations. While Steve Jobs did write the open letter for the music industry to stop requiring DRM, he was also criticized for doing nothing for movies (especially since he owned Pixar at the time).

    8. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Torrent?

    9. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by chispito · · Score: 0

      Um what, they pushed to get music publisher's to sell tracks without DRM.

      Said Steve Jobs. In reality, Apple had nothing to lose and everything to gain from the vendor lock in. I didn't think anyone actually took that statement at face value.

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    10. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Compared to old Microsoft he surely was a godsend at least in user quality and we were excited about having a unix that worked on the desktop that was fucking gorgeous for its time.

      True, as far as UI quality goes, it was a moment of 'finally.'

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    11. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Itunes gave Apple a financial incentive for DRM and lock in.

      Um what, they pushed to get music publisher's to sell tracks without DRM. As for video, where can you get video without DRM? Netflix? Amazon? Huh?

      Bittorrent? usenet?

    12. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by Clsid · · Score: 1

      I arrived at the same conclusion you did, and that is why I believe something like the free software foundation and open source software is extremely important to keep corporate greed in check even if its impact is limited. Think about it, there would be no Android without Linux or Java. Without Linux on the server space people would still be using overpriced and vendor provided hardware and Unid software or worse yet, Windows Server all over.

    13. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chrome's webkit is not W3C compliant compared to IE and Firefox with its extensions and some sites that only work with Chrome when you turn on HTML 5.

      Wow, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Nice bit of Apple bashing, almost completely devoid of any facts.

    14. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Apple has never been a big proponent of free or open standards; they have been using propriety standards for Macs, iPods, and iPhones since their creations.

      Because 802.11/IDE/SATA/USB/MP3/Bluetooth/HTML/BSD/MP4/AAC/Intel/Displayport/Lightpeak/DDR/PCI are sooooooooooo proprietary.

    15. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Remember Steve Jobs was the same one who ripped off Woz back in the day

      Did he also run over your dog when you were five? "Back in day" is around the Ford and Carter Administrations. Got a horse that doesn't have 40 odd years of dust on it?

    16. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Said Steve Jobs. In reality, Apple had nothing to lose and everything to gain from the vendor lock in. I didn't think anyone actually took that statement at face value.

      The problem with taking that tautology at face value: no one was ever prevented from buying the same music for similar devices, Apple has always made most of their money from selling hardware not music or software, and Apple has maintained their market dominance long after unencumbered songs have become the norm.

    17. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Yeah, back in the day is a warning. You're just too interested in fanboyism to notice what I was saying. Failure to support backwards compatibility and the miserable way their devices are locked down are my #1 complaints, although others might not agree with that. His 'war on Android' with patent battles continues even after his death. There's more.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    18. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by Racerdude · · Score: 0

      Fastforward today and I think Steve Jobs is fucking a more greedy monster than Bill Gates ever was.

      What greedy monster is he f*cking? I'm also curious about what "greedy monster" Gates was f*cking. :)

    19. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >What Changed?
      >Itunes gave Apple a financial incentive for DRM and lock in. Apple monopolized the mp3 market and almost the phone before Android did a quick rescue.

      Er, Apple removed DRM from their store as soon as they could - arguably their monopoly is what enabled them to do this. I see no Evil

      Apple brought out the iPhone and changed forever what a smartphone was percieved as - *everybody* copied it as fast as they could. I still see no Evil

      >Their Macs are falling behind as more effort is on consumer gadgets these days.
      'falling behine' ?? Falling behind what exactly? The macbook Air is most definitely not falling behind, the current lineup of mac pros are
      excellent machines, and are by no means laggards in the industry. In fact *many* current laptops ape their lok with (usually faux) aluminium
      bodies and the same white on black chicklet keyboards.

      Falling behind?! Have you seen the new Macbook Pro ?
      I wouldn't call that falling behind.

      Go back to bashing Microsoft, you have a more coherent argument there.

    20. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ripped off Woz ?!

      How exactly was the multimillionaire Woz ripped off? I am curious to know.

    21. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by chispito · · Score: 1

      no one was ever prevented from buying the same music for similar devices, Apple has always made most of their money from selling hardware not music or software, and Apple has maintained their market dominance long after unencumbered songs have become the norm.

      What is meant by vendor lock in is this: There was only one digital music store that could compete with physical media at the time, and that was iTunes. Apple got this exclusivity because they went with DRM. The DRM also meant your $500 in digital music purchases wouldn't play on non-Apple media players. Want to buy music? Well there was only one place to get it digitally: iTunes. Want to buy a new media player? Well, there was only one brand that would play your collection: Apple.

      This is why Jobs's statement that he was against DRM came across as disingenuous.

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    22. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Yeah, back in the day is a warning. You're just too interested in fanboyism to notice what I was saying. Failure to support backwards compatibility and the miserable way their devices are locked down are my #1 complaints, although others might not agree with that. His 'war on Android' with patent battles continues even after his death. There's more.

      I remember a time when Macs outlived PCs in terms of upgrades. Shit you could run Netscape 1.0 on a 1985 mac! System 7 even ran on it if you used just a floppy.

      The backwards compatibility and locked down happened later and today mac users are SOL after 3 years and I laugh when I read XP loyalists saying how dare you not support me after only 11 years!!

      Apple was nicer when they were not as powerful. Yes they make expensive stuff but they at least supported the txt format properly as MS did everything possible not to follow standards on purpose to make everything on a non dos computer look like crap! Dos aint done until Lotus wont run remember?

    23. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      So is Unix, Posix utilities, Apache, cups, Samba, PDF, HTML 5, and other technologies.

      Stop being so proprietary Apple with your own standards!

    24. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      PCs in 1999 crashed all the fucking time too if you were not blessed with a Windows 2000 RC build. Windows 98 and ME were shit and needed to be reinstalled each year if you did not want to wait 4 minutes for each boot. Remember?

        Apple computers would not crash as often with macos classic and were more reliable, and with MacOSX (almost finished in beta) was solid and had Linux reliability!

      Apple supported Apache, Samba, posix utils, and eventually even X, and other opensource and common standards in its day.

      I am not a mac fan at all. I am using a PC typing this but MS in comparison did IIS, powershell, their own remote access RDP system, and so on. They reinvented standard things to their own liking when making Windows 2000 and XP.

      When Apple became powerful then they started to resemble more of old microsoft. But at least they were higher quality. Both both MS and Apple being powerful are bad. MS was cheaper and terrible quality when they were king. Apple was better quality, but very expensive when they were king so to speak. Both had terrible customer lockin systems in the end. MS was more business lockin and to this day why we have IE 6 and IE 8 stuck on corporate systems holding HTML 5 back. Apple used Itunes to lock their users in.

      Google might be next but I hope Windows Phone, Mozilla, and even the next generation of Apple products keep them in their place. Lets hope.

    25. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Thank God for Mozilla. You are right but I like corporate competition to opensource too. I know people love bashing Firefox on here recently, but Chrome has made Firefox much lighter and faster.

      Have you tried Firefox 3.6 on an older system. Wow does it suck and I never realized how bloated it was and how slow its javascript is compared to modern Firefox and Chrome.

      That all happened in just 2 years too.

    26. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because 802.11/IDE/SATA/USB/MP3/Bluetooth/HTML/BSD/MP4/AAC/Intel/Displayport/Lightpeak/DDR/PCI are sooooooooooo proprietary.

      The only open standards they make use of are ones that were created by other people, the ones you listed along with webkit, cups, bsd, etc, were created by others. The shit *they* make (airplay, airdrop, lightning and dock connectors for example) is always locked down and closed to prevent interoperability and create an artificial market that they control. They *could* have used existing open standards or made their versions open standards, but they didn't.

    27. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did the statute of limitations expire for Jobs' past behavior?
      Did Jobs make amends for it? Is there any evidence that he had changed since then?
      Or are you just a Jobs fan boy?

    28. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by guruevi · · Score: 1

      3 years is within many Mac users' warranty, the latest-and-greatest will run on a 3 year old Mac. You'd have to go all the way to 2006 to find a Mac that isn't supported by 10.8, that's 7 years ago and even so, 10.6 is still supported with patches. To find a truly unsupported Mac you have to go all the way back to 2002 which is ~11 years and 2 architectures (PowerPC and 32-bit Intel) separated.

      Windows XP 64-bit hasn't been supported in forever either, they didn't even release SP3 for it. Windows NT for Alpha isn't supported either even though it was sold until 2004.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    29. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      There's no binary compiled for Mac before 2005 that still runs on the latest OSX. Apple has demonstrated multiple times that they have no commitment to backwards compatibility.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    30. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by guruevi · · Score: 1

      And why would that be the case? There are binaries that have been compiled well before 2005 that continue to run on both PPC and x86 platforms, x86-64bit can still run x86-32bit binaries (I have a couple of those running myself).

      After 2002 the x86 line was introduced and developers were recommended to compile for both architectures. Some big companies (Adobe and Microsoft primarily) continued compiling for PPC-only well after 2002 and only begrudgingly compiled for x86 later on, when Apple announced it's latest and greatest won't run PPC applications anymore in 2009 that is not anyone's fault but the software developer. PowerPC-binaries on 10.6 are still supported by Apple.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    31. Re:Comes to show to trust NO ONE by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      And why would that be the case?

      Because Apple has no commitment to backwards compatibility.

      There are binaries that have been compiled well before 2005 that continue to run on both PPC and x86 platforms, x86-64bit can still run x86-32bit binaries (I have a couple of those running myself).

      Do you understand that this has nothing to do with what I said? Is your reading comprehension that bad? Read this again, "There's no binary compiled for Mac before 2005 that still runs on the latest OSX." It's as if you are a fanboy chanting to yourself and closing your eyes to ignore anything you don't like.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  12. Let's innovate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple is the next Microsoft. It's successfully fooled the tech media into watching the pretty colors and repeating buzz words. Microsoft enslaved a bunch of Mexicans for their products, Apple enslaved some Chinese. Microsoft figures UI design is the only thing people care about anymore, so that's the only thing that changes between OS releases -- ditto for Apple. Vendor lock-in? Check. Inability to come up with an original idea after chasing their key talent away with bureaucracy and pointless office infighting? Check. Desperate attempts to expand into new sectors because people got tired of their lack of improvement in key areas? Check.

    Soon Apple will buy a tech company and then you'll see the truth: there hasn't been a distinction all along. The only difference between Bill Gates and Steve Jobs is that one of them is dead.

  13. One Thing by Chompjil · · Score: 1

    Apple is lacking jobs

    --
    People once told me 68K ram was all we needed,
  14. New Categories? by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

    It's not that Microsoft didn't break into new categories, it's just that they were bad at it or the categories they chose sucked.

    See Also: Microsoft Tablet PCs AKA "Pen-based computing" circa 2001.

    They've had a bit more luck with their Xbox division, although one could argue that video game consoles wasn't exactly a new field when they joined it. They still managed to steal Sega's spot in the market and push their way to number two for a few years... and number one in the North America and European markets for some of that time as I recall.

    Of course, we all know that they already messed up the launch of their next console. It's pathetic when you can make a defective company like Sony look good.

    --
    GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    1. Re:New Categories? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      I think one of MS problems was everything had to be "Windows". For tablets, all they did was put a touchscreen on a laptop and called it done. They never really thought that touch technology might need a different approach. Same thing with WinMobile which they made the UI just like Windows even though it didn't need to be. Now everything has to Windows but everything has to be touch oriented instead of desktop UI for desktops etc.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  15. Too successful by hxnwix · · Score: 1

    iOS has become too mainstream. The masses like it. This can't be tolerated! So, how can this be rectified?

    Make it look more like windows phone metro crud. Then, only the fanboys will like it.

  16. Re:Apple's new CEO still needs to prove himself by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

    And after 2 years, he still hasn't. We keep hearing hype, but where's the proof? Apple should be in front of the next revolution (dismembering STBs and their fees) but no, that looks to be Roku because Apple's longstanding effort (Apple TV) is and continues to be half-hearted. This guy seems to be by the numbers type of guy, an accountant, and no Jobs. Jobs was an asshole, but he was an asshole that got things done. We already seen Apple without a ruthless asshole in the past and it's not pretty.

    So don't tell me what Apple knows better, what is it doing better? Microsoft has the entrenchment of apps to rely on, Apple not so much.

    He hasn't. It has been 2 years now and the only thing he has done was get rid of graphics to aplease the anti-skuemorphism crowd with a METRO clone of flat, colorless, no shininess, tile like icons for IOS 7 with cheap plastic phones knockoffs of their original.

  17. TFA is wrong because: rumors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Essentially Apple won't be the next MS because of rumored innovations in "new" categories that Google is already releasing products for? Lets wait and see how that works out for them.

    Furthermore, arguing that they aren't stagnating because their next iteration of iOS won't "run into the same complaints over hardware requirements, compatibility, security" is missing the point. iOS7 being more well accepted than Vista != innovation. New features with more breadth and depth than UI overhauls = innovation.

  18. > "Apple is prepping big pushes into wearable electronics and televisions, both of
    > which could prove lucrative strategies if executed correctly."

    AKA a Microsoft-like "Mee Toooo!", but of Google.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    1. Re:Too by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      > "Apple is prepping big pushes into wearable electronics and televisions, both of
      > which could prove lucrative strategies if executed correctly."

      AKA a Microsoft-like "Mee Toooo!", but of Google.

      Google did not invent wearable electronics.

      They're a "Me Too-er" as well.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    2. Re:Too by MrMickS · · Score: 1

      > "Apple is prepping big pushes into wearable electronics and televisions, both of
      > which could prove lucrative strategies if executed correctly."

      AKA a Microsoft-like "Mee Toooo!", but of Google.

      Google did not invent wearable electronics.

      They're a "Me Too-er" as well.

      Wash your mouth out! Everyone knows that its Apple that doesn't invent anything and copies things. Google never copies anything. That would be evil

      --
      You may think me a tired, old, cynic. I'd have to disagree about the tired bit.
  19. Re:Apple is overrated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's because you complained about Gnome 3 without apparently having tried any of the bazillion other choices.

  20. Cable card / Tru2way failing likey killed the TV by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    Cable card does work for some others it's an big mess to get the cable to make it work and it's people who know what they are doing run into the people at the cable co who have little to no clue at times on cable card that need to do there part to make it work. The cable card mess is very un apple.

    As well the new Xbox idea use there box likely with IR blasters and you still have deal with cable CO UI.

  21. Breaking into new categories by mvar · · Score: 0

    Apple seems to recognize everything that seemed to elude Microsoft's corporate thinking six years ago: namely, that even the most successful companies need to keep breaking into new categories, and keep innovating

    So how is MS not doing this? Surface, win8, win RT, XBone..sure they "failed" (I doubt if this will be the case for the xbone though) but one can't say they didn't try to "break into new categories" or "innovate". The big difference is that apple has countless fanbois so they're less likely to go down so early :P

  22. They're not, Google is by ZephyrXero · · Score: 0

    Well that was a silly question...I thought we all already knew Google's the one on track to be the next Microsoft. Just as Microsoft was the next IBM before it.

    --
    "A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
  23. Almost as easy to use? by Russ1642 · · Score: 1

    When someone puts a phrase like that into their article without substantiating it or addressing it other than to simply state it then they're just trolling. A pencil is easy to use, but it doesn't mean it's better than iOS or Android. The whole 'so easy a three-year-old' can do it thing has passed. I'm not three. I can handle something that takes some thought, that I may not know all the ins and outs of perfectly on my first day, because the only way to do that is to simplify stuff to the point of not being usable. As a longtime Android user (if that's a thing) I can say that I'm immensely frustrated by having to help people with their iPhones. The lack of options in almost all applications, especially the OS ones, amazes me. No wonder they can't figure it out. There's no two pages of options like you get in Android where you can easily set things up. That would be 'hard to use' because you'd have to read something!

  24. A brand is not cool if your parents use it by StripedCow · · Score: 1

    Apple became the next Microsoft the moment my mom bought an iPhone.

    --
    If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
  25. The Apple TV turns a big profit by mveloso · · Score: 2

    Actually, the Apple TV turns a huge profit.

    On 5/28/13 there were 13 million Apple TVs sold, at about $100 each. That's $1.3 billion of revenue. I'm being conservative and assuming those numbers don't include the Apple TV 1.

    Given an ultra-low margin of 25%, that means Apple conservatively has made $325 million off of the ATV. And Apple's margins have historically been more than 25%.

    1. Re:The Apple TV turns a big profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that doesn't count the video sales/rentals from the ATV.

    2. Re:The Apple TV turns a big profit by Gilmoure · · Score: 2

      Eh. I've had an Apple TV for three years or so and haven't bought more than 200-250 movies. That's nothing compared to music! Apple fail!

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
  26. No regrets on iOS devices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My years old iphone4 is getting iOS7. More new features and continued support on old hardware. This thing has been so good to me I can't justify upgrading. I simply have no reason to buy a new phone yet, but when I do it will be an iphone.

    I've been an iphone user since the original and it's been the same cycle every time. Buy device. New software comes out, adding functionality. Eventually new tech produces a new device worth the upgrade. All of my stuff migrates over without a hitch.

    All of the itunes music I had for my ipod worked with my original iphone. Software upgrades brought the app store. Then later exchange connectivity. All of that migrated seamlessly to my 3g. Same experience with the 4. If I feel like getting the 5s when it launches I won't even have to plug it in to the computer, because during the 4's release a software upgrade enabled cloud backup. All I have to do is log in to my new phone and let it cloud restore.

    Android, however, is starting to get there. I picked up the new nexus 7. (Amazing device by the way. Literally the best andriod tab on the market as far as I'm conserned). Logged in with google services and those migrated over seamlessly. Most of of my google play apps came over too, but some bugged out.

    My previous device was a galaxy tab 2 7.0. While good, I had to root it and install a hacked up rom to strip out most of the Samsung garbage. (Note to samsung, fuck off with your crapware. We want google's apps and app store, not your abortions)

  27. Re:Apple is overrated by tsa · · Score: 2

    And because you call iOS7 crippleware even before it's out.

    --

    -- Cheers!

  28. MS vs Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft has better technology. They're more innovative and creative.

    Apple is better at taking tech other people made, and then turning it into a product that people actually want to buy and can use and enjoy using.

    There's a place for both.

    1. Re:MS vs Apple by smash · · Score: 1

      You're joking, right?

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
  29. Apple is far worse by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 0

    Apple isn't just trying to lock you in to their proprietary formats, they control a large percentage of how the US communicates and are all too willing to work at the edge of censorship without question *

    "Apple has patented a piece of technology which would allow government and police to block transmission of information, including video and photographs, from any public gathering"

    [*] - http://rt.com/news/apple-patent-transmission-block-408/

    --
    Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
    1. Re:Apple is far worse by gnasher719 · · Score: 2

      "Apple has patented a piece of technology which would allow government and police to block transmission of information, including video and photographs, from any public gathering"

      This, followed by your signature "ignorance is choice".

      The patent is for a user-selectable feature that allows cameras to be turned off if you enter a certain area. Which is a great feature if you work at a company handling confidential stuff where photography isn't allowed, and this feature, if implemented, could allow you to bring an iPhone with you and use it (because it's ability to take photos can be turned off), while other smartphones with camera would get confiscated.

  30. Source by randizzle3000 · · Score: 1

    Gizmodo reposted (they even say it at the bottom [I know, /., who rtfa anyway?])

    Give the guy his clicks: http://blog.agoeldi.com/

  31. You post a ling with "in short, no" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You post a ling with "in short, no" as the text to the link, but the link does not show that the answer IS "no".

    Please do not do this.

    Answer or do not, don't try and fail.

  32. Reiterating what many others have already said... by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 2

    If you think that the main innovation in Windows Vista was the frosted glass, or any other UI feature, you are retarded.

    While I think Windows Vista was far from perfect (so far that I didn't buy it), Windows XP was 5 years old and showing it. It was not designed for 64 bit architecture, and could not address more than 4GB of memory. Yes I know there was 64-bit windows XP, but that opens up a whole new can of worms. All windows OSes up through windows XP had horrible security models that lead to rampant infections by viruses.

    Windows XP was based on 1990's NT technology. Windows vista was a near complete rewrite of the OS to bring windows into the 21st century. It had lots of problems, but I'd sure as hell use it over XP if given a choice.

    I am not a M$ fanboy either. I use both windows and linux both at work and at home. I'd probably own a mac too if I had more disposable income.

  33. Apple died with Jobs by Overzeetop · · Score: 0

    As much as Jobs was an utter asshole, he was an asshole with a vision and a mission. He had very specific ideas about technology and they were mostly aligned with non-technologically oriented people (aka: most humans). Apple has banked its success on non-technical people - if you are the computer equivalent of not being able to find your ass with both hands, Apple is for you. It's why Apple was king of graphics - those people aren't IT geeks. Apple locked everything down so it looked like paper and pencil, or dodge masks, or picas or points. Jobs understood that the feel, look, and minimal learning curve of a device was THE most critical factor to selling them. He hated buttons because they complicate the interface.

    Apple has not only lost it's way, it has done so as their primary markets that made them the juggernaut they are are saturating (tablets and phones). They hold such a dominant position that it can only really erode in a normal marketplace. MS has the advantage of decades of software development by third parties protecting it's operating system. Apple has the disadvantange that everyone *expects* to trade in their device every 2 years, and the software investment users have is minimal thanks to the lowest-price-wins marketplace they've created (and profited off handsomely, I might add).

    Apple IS at a crossroads. They really need to find another Jobs or they will, though it seems amazing, probably fritter away their $100B warchest on redesigning icons. They're going to need another "holy shit that's awesome" moment here soon, imho.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:Apple died with Jobs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow. That is a funny analysis. Microsoft is down right now because EVERYONE is sick of the constant mediocrity and upgrade cycle that is Microsoft. Many people myself included are just done with anything Microsoft and refuse to buy it for their home. Their are a lot of Ipads in the corporate environment nowadays. I wouldn't be too smug about Apple's demise.

  34. No.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... they're worse. If MS had just pulled half the shit that Apple has in the last ten years, Bill & Steve personally would have been rosted on a small flame by the government.

  35. Apple research much more public; usable by SuperKendall · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Webkit
    BSD Unix
    Grand Central Dispatch
    Darwin
    Clang/LLVM
    And many more.

    You can SEE what Microsoft is researching.

    You can USE what Apple is researching.

    How much of Microsoft's research makes it to the real world? Where is WinFS? Microsoft research is a golden tower into which Microsoft locks smart people so other companies cannot use them, and produces almost nothing of tangible benefit to the world.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Apple research much more public; usable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Webkit

      Leeched from KHTML

      BSD Unix

      Leeched from the BSD community

      Grand Central Dispatch

      Please, its an implementation of thread pooling, get over it.

      and produces almost nothing of tangible benefit to the world.

      Where exactly has Darwin provided any tangible benefit to the world outside of Apples locked up operating system? Apple leech off the community and only provide back self serving modifications whilst keeping everything else useful locked up so dont pretend they are any better than Microsoft, all their latest hardware is even a lock down effort. Sure you can easily and legitimately install alternative operating systems on some of that hardware but you can even do that on Microsoft's own Surface Pro.

    2. Re:Apple research much more public; usable by Parker+Lewis · · Score: 1

      Yeap, after your comment, apple fanboys will start to believe that Jobs invented webkit, Unix, etc

    3. Re:Apple research much more public; usable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Much of Microsoft's research is never intended to make it to the real world. It's what Joel Spolsky calls "fire and motion". The idea being, you get *some* companies out there to spend their time migrating their product line to, I dunno, Silverlight or something, only to abandon it. Then they've wasted months of their time, while their rivals have been spending their energy doing something that might actually improve their product.

      And thus the market shakes out, the companies that are best attuned to Microsoft's corporate agenda thrive at the expense of those who can't tell the real from the dross, and Microsoft has fewer and stronger partners to exploit^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hsupport.

    4. Re:Apple research much more public; usable by Clsid · · Score: 1

      He didn't say jobs invented them, but Apple put a lot of resources on those technologies. Don't kid yourself, I remember webkit was just used for konqueror and it sucked for page rendering. Gecko back then was king and after Apple took over is when webkit actually became something that left other html frameworks in the dust.

    5. Re:Apple research much more public; usable by Parker+Lewis · · Score: 1

      Clsid, my comment was supposed to be just a joke, don't take me serious :)

    6. Re:Apple research much more public; usable by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Webkit

      Leeched from KHTML

      Irrelevant, as is the rest of your post. The question wasn't who invented the technology in the first place, but if Apple's research can be used by other people.

    7. Re:Apple research much more public; usable by danaris · · Score: 1

      Clsid, my comment was supposed to be just a joke, don't take me serious :)

      Unfortunately, without appropriate faux-tagging, it was completely indistinguishable from the kinds of comments the anti-Apple crowd around here really posts.

      And that's not a joke (though it is kind of ridiculous).

      Dan Aris

      --
      Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
    8. Re:Apple research much more public; usable by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

      In the case of Webkit / KHTML it is relevant.
      Because KHTML is LGPL they are required by law to let Webkit be used by others.

  36. Trying to control - or prevent control? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Apple has patented a piece of technology which would allow government and police to block transmission of information

    Note that there are two reasons to procure a patent. The first is to make a product based on that patent. Apple has not done that...

    The second is to prevent anyone ELSE from making a product based on that patent.

    Given Apple's actions to date, it's equally likely they wish to prevent said technology from coming to market.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  37. yes, and it's wrong for another reason. by mbkennel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Apple seems to recognize everything that seemed to elude Microsoft's corporate thinking six years ago: namely, that even the most successful companies need to keep breaking into new categories, and keep innovating, if they want to stay ahead of hungry rivals."

    Microsoft was not unaware of that at all. They tried very hard for a long time, after all Windows Phone was worked on for many years before iPhone.

    Microsoft's problem was that they weren't good at it. Vista was another example. The common problem is internal corporate politics, and the key to that problem is at the top.

    1. Re:yes, and it's wrong for another reason. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      X...B...O...X... You know, a division that's almost 10 billion $ a year...

      Dynamics... SharePoint... etc...

      Funny how some people seem think that Microsoft only has Office and Windows. There's multiple billion $+ products in that company. Some of them showing up only in the past few years.

    2. Re:yes, and it's wrong for another reason. by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 1

      Well, there was a time when they were good at it, like when they branched out from being a DOS vendor to selling a GUI to go on top, to adding a WYSIWYG word processor, then spreadsheet, then slide presenter, web browser, and all kinds of other things that implanted them into the heart of consumer computing. We tend to remember the later, unsuccessful attempts, but it's because of the earlier, successful attempts at branching out that we're even talking about Microsoft.

      Apple has thus far also branched out rather successfully, but it's possible that further branching attempts will fail miserably. Maybe Apple have gotten complex enough that anything new they try will be a "meh"-inducing pile of compromises. After all, that's what happened to Microsoft, and the pattern might describe the natural life cycle of a major tech company.

    3. Re:yes, and it's wrong for another reason. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OP is being disingenuous. If Apple "knows they have to break into new catagories" then where is the proof? The first iPad was released in 2010. That was the last major Apple "new product" release, in as much as it was more a large form factor iPhone rerelease than a proper table for the first 2 years. In any event, we're 3 years on and we're hearing rumors of new products, not new actual launches. In the meantime Google has pushed out Glass, and Now, and Honeycomb, bought Motorola, and has been playing with driverless cars. Microsoft (love them or hate them) has upended their entire GUI model, moved to a subscriber model for Office, begun taking on Amazon web services, and is working on their 3rd console launch. Apple may "understand", but they're currently exhibiting deer-in-the-headlights syndrome. If they launch and it's not a huge hit, who honestly expects their stock to go anywhere but down? But they have cash on hand you say? They why haven't they already tossed some prototypes out with a "who cares we can finance ourselves" approach. At this point, Apple is functionally leaderless, despite the presence of Tim Cook. Love him or hate him, one of the bigger assets that Jobs had going for him was a fearlessness about trying new products, and screw the consequences. I.e the G4 cube, or AppleTV, the shuffle, etc.

    4. Re:yes, and it's wrong for another reason. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What ms problem, they research, and develop a cutting edge idea, promote crappy managers to lead the division, then lose a few decent guys, and close the division down after they don't produce a viable product. Apple picks up the decent guys, and is 10 years behind the flow.

    5. Re:yes, and it's wrong for another reason. by Tamerlin · · Score: 1

      There are people out there who think that Apple is a software company and that Microsoft is a hardware company. It's to a large extent because their minds are too small to see the rest of what MS has in its product portfolio.

  38. You have got to be kidding by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    And after 2 years, he still hasn't.

    Apple has not released an unsuccessful product yet, and Cook oversaw much of the last few. The last quarter saw a large growth in iPhone sales despite no new models at all, totally eating the lunch of every Android based competitor.

    Coming up is the release of iOS7 which has drained away design talent from working on other platforms, and a fantastic reboot of the Mac Pro which looks like a really great system that lots of people will buy.

    Cook has done far better than I ever thought anyone could after Jobs, Apple is not slowing down at all.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:You have got to be kidding by exomondo · · Score: 1

      a fantastic reboot of the Mac Pro which looks like a really great system that lots of people will buy.

      Really? Aside from one fan to cool everything (which is a potential advantage) I can't see anything particularly good about it. Removal of front ports is a terrible idea and inability to upgrade things like graphics card might be ok for some people but even then where's the advantage? Sure it's smaller, but it's a desktop so who the hell cares about that? The mini is brilliant as I wanted a quite HTPC, their laptops are great and personally I prefer iOS to Android (personal preference, even iOS7 is slowly starting to grow on me) but the new mac pro really is a triumph of form over function.

    2. Re:You have got to be kidding by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      Really? Aside from one fan to cool everything (which is a potential advantage) I can't see anything particularly good about it.

      A central heat sync is an amazingly good idea that should help keep the whole system much cooler.

      The memory and storage speed are also fantastic.

      Removal of front ports is a terrible idea

      It's so small, and it rotates, that I really don't see that as a problem. It's meant to be up on a desk, not hiding under it where ports have been hard to get to.

      inability to upgrade things like graphics card

      It comes with two already, but you can also add more for computation via Thunderbolt.

      Sure it's smaller, but it's a desktop so who the hell cares about that?

      I care if it doesn't sacrifice power for size, which it doesn't. Most desktops are large to accommodate airflow, but with a better design there's no reason to be.

      It offers a ton of performance in a quieter, more compact and easily externally expandable package... I had no interest in a desktop before the Mac Pro, but now I'm thinking I may get one for primary computing at home and possibly even some work at client sites as it's portable enough. There's a lot to be said for a very powerful and portable desktop that doesn't have a screen attached, because lots of places have extra screens now...

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    3. Re:You have got to be kidding by exomondo · · Score: 1

      A central heat sync is an amazingly good idea that should help keep the whole system much cooler.

      That's it's one decent feature.

      It's so small, and it rotates, that I really don't see that as a problem.

      You didn't think that people might, you know, have things plugged in? Then have to haul a heap of slack cable up when rotating? That's an awful and terribly clumsy design choice. Seriously the mechanics of why that is stupid aren't that hard to fathom.

      It comes with two already

      So what if I want ATI cards? I always had the option to just swap GPUs if I needed or wanted to. Or perhaps a GPU compatible with the latest version of OpenGL? They've moved to a throwaway device design.

      There's a lot to be said for a very powerful and portable desktop that doesn't have a screen attached, because lots of places have extra screens now...

      Its only expansion means all your devices are external, so you then have to lug them too because it's not all in one package not to mention it creates a mess of cables on your desk rather than having it all neatly confined within a case.

  39. Oh look by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    another paid advertisement from Apple

  40. Re:Apple is overrated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, if you're going to review a restaurant, your opinion will have no value unless you try out every other restaurant on Earth before writing your review.
    Wait...

  41. More like Google is... by cjjjer · · Score: 1
  42. Re:Apple's new CEO still needs to prove himself by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

    It has been 2 years now and the only thing he has done was get rid of graphics to aplease the anti-skuemorphism crowd with a METRO clone of flat, colorless, no shininess, tile like icons for IOS 7

    iOS 7 isn't flat. It's just got rid of 3D effects hardcoded into bitmaps. (Shadows and highlights). It's 3D is truer now, making greater and more logical use of layered OpenGL textures.

    cheap plastic phones knockoffs of their original.

    Presumably you are just as convinced that the sweater in that photo is made by Nike.

  43. Re:question by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

    I remember when Jobs died, or maybe it was right before, Apple basically said he had left them with 3 to 5 years of new products in the pipeline.

    I think that was just the opinion of bloggers. Might be right or wrong, but I don't think it's anything Apple said.

    The common expectation of new product categories from Apple every year or two is ridiculous and doesn't reflect the historical record. Significantly different devices within categories, sure. And we've had those - the iPad Mini and the new Mac Pro.

  44. Sad no-one realizes how different iOS7 really is by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Informative

    What's really bad about all these iOS7 articles is how off they are about what has changing.

    If the person writing claims iOS7 is "flat", they have totally missed the point.

    iOS7 has gone DEEP, not flat. It's many layers where before there was just a flat tree. It's added a literal new dimension to UI and UIX design.

    When you actually have it in hand you may understand better, but just know until then anyone who says iOS7 is "flat" has no idea what the heck they are talking about.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  45. Apple vs Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple wants all my money and Google wants all my personal information.

    I rather give my money away... Don't be evil my a**.

    1. Re:Apple vs Google by smash · · Score: 1

      Pretty much that.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
  46. Frosted glass is a silly thing to focus on... by __aakjag4737 · · Score: 1

    While Microsoft had a good run when they made products people wanted, overtime they seem to have become comfortable thinking of their products as something that users had to use whether they wanted to or not - and that is where they ran into problems. Lots of other companies do the same thing (cable tv/Facebook...)

    "Frosted Glass" is a silly thing to use as a focus - just a superficial implementation detail that has nothing to do with the differences between why any of these companies do what they do. Hopefully Microsoft decides to change focus and start making all of their products things that users really want again.

    Apple and Google (and many other companies) seek to create products that users really want (so much that they can "sell" at a premium in outright cost or user data/privacy).

    It's easy to think every company intends to "lock in" a customer, but that's not always the case. The Apple and Google and Facebook ecosystems might on the surface appear to have an evil intent (if you have a paranoid view that the world is evil and scary), but functionally they all satisfy a want that their users have - and filling that desire is just good business.

    In theory, if there are many companies competing to fill the needs and desires of the customers it becomes far more profitable for all of them to have a common means of exchanging data across platforms. The walled gardens are still going to exist, but by the content owners and not the companies between them and the customers. The only reason you see "lock in" stuff in any company like Google/Apple/Microsoft has to do with the content owners and the only viable mechanism right now to get that content to the users that want it.

  47. This writer is a moron by DavidinAla · · Score: 1

    Anyone who thinks that iOS 7 is nothing more than a graphical change is an idiot who isn't keeping up with the technical changes going on. This is a classic case of ignoring the facts when they don't fit the narrative you want to use as an argument. What a moron.

    1. Re:This writer is a moron by MrMickS · · Score: 1

      Anyone who thinks that iOS 7 is nothing more than a graphical change is an idiot who isn't keeping up with the technical changes going on. This is a classic case of ignoring the facts when they don't fit the narrative you want to use as an argument. What a moron.

      This is just a journalist re-treading the old "Apple is doomed" meme because Apple work at Apple's pace. They will release something when they are ready to release it. It's how they work.

      --
      You may think me a tired, old, cynic. I'd have to disagree about the tired bit.
  48. Article is bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ....and so is the author. His main comparison is total bullshit that glosses over a number of important details when making the XP/Vista comparison. He's an idiot, and this article is trash.

  49. Gizmodo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After seeing Gizmodo, I could not stomach reading further.

  50. Actually, I do by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Do you see any of Apple's current products that wedged so deep into every business process out there that they will almost surely still be profiting $1BN / year a decade from now, as Microsoft has ALREADY done?

    Yes, it's called the iPad. It has seen a huge uptake in enterprise use, in part because there are so many, but also because of third party support for things like rugged cases. Also there is a lot of good management support now and a lot of powerful frameworks to build enterprise apps on top of.

    Enterprises have adopted them in droves, and as a result they will be there for some time to come...

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Actually, I do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      To summarize your point, iPad is about as ingrained into enterprises as the BlackBerry was four years ago. Remember how impregnable those Canadians looked back then?

      I agree with GP--Microsoft has a far nastier grip on enterprise IT than Apple, thanks to document format lock-in and decades' worth of line-of-business apps. Until people start locking up information in Apple's ecosystem in a similar manner, Apple will remain two bum releases away from being BlackBerried.

  51. Not one thing you said is accurate by SuperKendall · · Score: 0

    Apple's stock is significantly up in the last month; this is the case because every other thing you said is an utter fabrication. The Mac Pro alone proves you have no idea what you are talking about.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  52. Cognitive dissonance by LordLucless · · Score: 1

    Ok, there's no way this could have been written by anyone who didn't have a terminal case of reality distortion field withdrawal symptom:

    Apple seems to recognize everything that seemed to elude Microsoft's corporate thinking six years ago: namely, that even the most successful companies need to keep breaking into new categories, and keep innovating, if they want to stay ahead of hungry rivals.

    There may be reasons why Apple isn't going to be "the next Microsoft" (whatever that is), but this is most assuredly not one of them. Apple is one of the most narrowly-focussed companies for its size around. It sells, what, a handful of different lines of devices that vary mostly based on screen resolution?

    Microsoft has realised that diversifying is necessary, whereas Apple still apparently has not. Sure, Microsoft's has generally sucked at it, but they've been involved in gaming (Xbox, Kinect, game studios), personal devices (Zune, smart phones), peripherals (Keyboards, mice, etc), server software (IIS, MSSQL, etc), and a bunch of other areas, outside their big three of Windows, Office and Exchange.

    Whereas Apple is innovatively breaking into new categories because there are rumours they might be making a smart watch (i.e. another iOS device with a different form factor)? Please.

    --
    Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
  53. Yes Apple continues to innovate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why, the last truly 'new' Apple product was 15 years ago. They have nothing to worry about.

    1. Re:Yes Apple continues to innovate by smash · · Score: 1

      Newsflash: Apple don't create entirely new products. They create entirely new markets however by taking an existing product and making it actually desirable/easy to use/etc. Mp3 players existed back in 1995 (I was at a university where the grad students manufactured a prototype at the time). They didn't truly take off until apple tweaked them. Ditto for smartphones and ditto for tablets. Virtually creating a new market 3 times in a decade is not due to dumb luck and lack of innovation. As much as geeks might not want to admit it, aesthetics, UI design and ease of use are very much valued by the average consumer.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    2. Re:Yes Apple continues to innovate by TheDugong · · Score: 1

      They are valued by me, a geek, too. Since my mum and extended family went apple I rarely have any support calls :)

    3. Re:Yes Apple continues to innovate by smash · · Score: 1

      Same here. Perhaps I should have said "some geeks". My mistake :D

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
  54. Re:Apple is overrated by Clsid · · Score: 1

    Let's see, Anonymous Coward, complaining about a system that hasn't came out yet, dissing OSX as an utter piece of crap, and then returning to the same bad experience that you said Gnome 3 provided you, as if there were no options in Linux. So either you are a troll or just plain stupid.

    Hell the main issue with a Macbook Pro is that they are overpriced, but if you have it ou have to be crazy to put it away unless you want to play games or something with an Alienware like machine.

  55. seriously? by smash · · Score: 1

    Basing a company analysis on frosted glass? Just..... wow. Haven't had much to do with gizmodo in the past, but it looks hilariously ignorant based on this article.

    --
    I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
  56. Compromises by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most companies, especially in the US, are run by a group of highly skilled individuals with matching egos who have worked their way to the top and will defend their little islands at any cost. The problem with this is that invariably, every decision is made by consensus. If anyone stands up and makes a decision without consulting everyone else in the power group, he or she will eventually be shot down. Apple was an exception on the rule. Even so, Steve Jobs was removed for just this reason but managed his return and attained absolute power. He held on to this power only because he had the opportunity to return on his own conditions and was lucky enough that his ideas and decisions came at exactly the right time. Because Apple cultivated his aura and presence, Jobs was able to lift the company to near mythical status. With Jobs gone, Apple has become a normal company where egos run the show and therefore decision and ideas are made by consensus again. Competitors have caught up and even surpassed Apple and without someone with the same power as Jobs, the playing field is a lot more level than in the early iPhone days. Microsoft has an identical problem but will be able to catch up quicker because their products aren't as hyped up.

  57. Re:Apple is overrated by mjwx · · Score: 1

    And because you call iOS7 crippleware even before it's out.

    Given the fact that IOS's 1 through 6 were crippleware, I think that it's a safe bet that IOS 7 will be the same. I highly doubt Apple will reverse their policy of limiting what the user can do.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  58. Re:Reiterating what many others have already said. by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    Windows vista was a near complete rewrite of the OS to bring windows into the 21st century.

    That was supposed to be Longhorn, which was supposed to have real improvements over it's predecessors. Vista, however, was just a gob of shite until a number of bug fixes and a service pack made it usable. If reverting to the prior version means an upgrade in both performance and usability, you've done something wrong. Windows 8 is a usability fail but at least it's fast.

  59. Re:Apple's new CEO still needs to prove himself by exomondo · · Score: 1

    iOS 7 isn't flat. It's just got rid of 3D effects hardcoded into bitmaps. (Shadows and highlights). It's 3D is truer now, making greater and more logical use of layered OpenGL textures.

    The thing I don't like about it is the pointless gimmicky stuff that they've added that slows it down, like in iOS pre-7 you pressed the button and it came on, same deal when you locked it. Now you press it and there's this delay and it fades in, it's pointless and just slower (like the window fade-in on Windows 7, which at least you can turn off). It also does a fallback animation of the icons when you hit the home button, reminiscent of the Windows 8 metro screen, again another unnecessary slowdown animation.

    Aside from that i'm actually liking it now, the first beta was pretty awful (way worse than other versions' first betas) but they've made a lot of changes since then which seem to work well.

  60. what a load of crap.. by SuperDre · · Score: 1

    The whole article is just a big load of crap written by an Apple fanboy.. What innovation? show me some real innovation by apple which wasn't ripped from others.. And the biggest BULL is about hardware requirements, Apple only supports their own limited range devices, so that's something completely different compared to the very VERY WIDE range of configurations Windows Vista had to keep in mind.. So when you are gonna compare iOS7 (which also won't run on all apple devices, and also will have some problems with a few devices, just like ANY iOSx has had before) to an OS on hardware requirements your whole article goes down the toilet... To me, Vista wasn't such a big disaster, Windows 8 is much more of a disaster as with Windows Vista you at least had the possibility to completely configure the look of it (with 3D/transparent options AND you could make it look as ugly as the lame windows 8 desktop) without having to resort to some thirdparty tools..

    1. Re:what a load of crap.. by MrMickS · · Score: 1

      The whole article is just a big load of crap written by an Apple fanboy.. What innovation? show me some real innovation by apple which wasn't ripped from others..

      Show me some real innovation invented by anyone that wasn't based on the work of others.

      --
      You may think me a tired, old, cynic. I'd have to disagree about the tired bit.
  61. In fact, iOS 7 isn't even finished. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Neither was Vista.

  62. Excited for iOS 7 by StewartD · · Score: 1

    I can't wait to see what iOS 7 is like, at first I hated the new design and I don't use the beta version but seeing tons of screencaps online is making me get used to it already ahead of its release. Not so sure about the wearable hardware Apple is developing, but I guess it'll find its market too.

  63. Mediocrity works when you're the incumbent by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    And yet, despite it's supposed "being down" it's still the primary corporate desktop system after a decade of absolutely horrible management. That's the kind of market you really want to be in on. MSFT has no presence in the emerging personal device market, which may very well take over computers in the home arena.

    As for iPads in the corporate environment - it's not MSFT that should be scared, but Franklin Covey's print calendar business. Tablets are not creation devices, they're consumption and personal organization. The iPad, as it is currently positioned, will never leap into creation in any meaningful way. It would take either a major philosophical change in how iOS works, or a port of OSX to it. An ultrabook convertible, however, might replace a desktop just as laptops have replaced desktops. So you're looking at the Air market for Apple which is quickly being crowded by the new ultrabooks - may of which offer better integration into corporate networks and buying models (i.e. HP, Dell, Lenovo contracts).

    Things could shift, but for Apple - which was riding high on innovative devices - seems to be flagging here. Unfortunately, their best bet at a break-out product may be even harder to pull off than their iTunes licensing (which was pretty tough, and impressive) - a la carte cable programming across the board directly with providers via iTunes and an AppleTV brand. My second-best option - inclusion as an option in automobile/OEM head units, with a 50-60M/yr unit market and a nice, juicy $1000 retail pricepoint for low power hardware.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  64. The MS solution - really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft has deprecated its most popular products to force users into less familiar, less stable products.

    The solution is simple. Release software updates to popular legacy software: NT, Windows 98, and the other top three titles. The folks running installs have run to older hardware to keep legacy applications going. MS should immediately make a deal with HP and Dell to offer older MS titles on newer machines with software to account for new BIOS and older physical connections. The solution to MS growth is simple. Backwards compatibility to the MASSIVE installed base.

    JJ

  65. Yes it is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Um, iOS7 is just a cheap ripoff of the "Metro" design that Microsoft invented. Also, Microsoft is attaching on all fronts while Apple is pretty much just a phone company.

  66. Sorry, wrong site? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I read no less than 10 lucid, "5" comments on this thread . . .

    What happened to you /., you used to be cool!

  67. Re:Reiterating what many others have already said. by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

    I didn't say it worked well. But the features it had made it more secure and able to utilize more memory. When vista came out it had lots of problems, so a lot of people went back to XP.

    1. I don't think it's fair to compare the state of windows XP in 2007 with the state of windows vista in 2007 as far as bugs go.

    2. Windows XP wasn't an upgrade in performance if you had a fast computer with a lot of memory. If you had an old enough computer upgrading from windows 98 to windows XP was a downgrade in performance too.

    3. I don't know if the benefit of not being constantly infected by viruses due to a bad security model can be overstated.

  68. Re:Reiterating what many others have already said. by geoffrobinson · · Score: 1

    Apparently anything that happens under the hood doesn't count.

    --
    Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
  69. Apple innovating? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple stopped innovating a few years ago now they just take what they want and sue the creator of the idea. Don't believe it? Just look at the past few years of law suits. Now take a look at how far android has gone. Even Microsoft is trying to be innovating again. Apple has gotten stale. The question is way hasn't people realized this yet? Maybe it the amount of money they sunk into itunes and now they are stuck and so they have to defend apple.

  70. Only a matter of perspective.. by doccus · · Score: 1

    Of course Apple isn't *going to be* the next Microsoft, precisely as this fanboi site claims. Wheere they have it wrong, is the timing. Apple already *is* the new M$... And hey, i'm a Mac user for 15 years.. not much longer though..

  71. Re:Sad no-one realizes how different iOS7 really i by sapped · · Score: 1

    Daring fireball is that you? How nice of you to show up here on /. http://daringfireball.net/2013/06/ios_7_signature