Ask Slashdot: Best Software For Med-School Note-Taking?

pen and paper by intermodal · 2013-08-13 04:51 · Score: 4, Insightful

Nothing I've yet discovered is as flexible, reliable, and controllable. every digital attempt I've seen/tried has been inferior. You might try recording the lectures as you go in case you need to go back for context at some point, especially if you go back and type them later.

--
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!

Re:pen and paper by Frobnicator · 2013-08-13 05:00 · Score: 2, Insightful

Totally agree, PENCIL + PAPER is the answer.
Do you want to spend your time swapping between apps, waiting for apps to load, trying to draw with your laptop's touchpad, and otherwise concentrating on the technology rather than concentrating on the discussion?
If you want to review your paper notes and make them digital at some point after class, that is up to you. But for simple flexibility and reliability, paper is the answer.
Write on it. Draw on it. Re-use it in another class. Archive it. Paper does all the things asked for in the article.

--
//TODO: Think of witty sig statement
Re:pen and paper by eggstasy · 2013-08-13 05:06 · Score: 4, Insightful

I concur. It's worked pretty well so far, why would it need to change...? Is there a specific problem you're trying to solve?
Do bear in mind, from my own painful experience with note taking, you should try to actually pay attention to your class. It's different for everyone, but I found excessive note-taking counter-productive. That's what people did before they had easy access to all the information in the world.
Also, get off my lawn you damn kids.
Re:pen and paper by larwe · 2013-08-13 05:06 · Score: 5, Insightful

This. Not only this, but the OP is seriously underestimating the workload overhead of tagging CONSISTENTLY, and adding all sorts of meta-information to documents. It's an analogous problem to tagging a huge collection of photos. This is a picture of my dog. Is it a #dog, a #fido, a #poodle, or what? It's extremely hard to maintain consistent tagging rules for a large body of individual notes. As for digital note taking, there is no solution that works as well as paper. In the course of EE studies, I have tried everything under the sun. Tablets, PDAs, laptops, digital ink pens, etc etc. If you're taking lots of text notes, a keyboard is king... but probably no faster than handwriting. If your notes include diagrams, mathematical symbols, chemical formulae, etc, you can pretty much forget keyboards (though I have seen some Mathcad mavens enter math proofs "live" off a whiteboard since they know all the keyboard shortcuts for everything). Stylus-based screens don't have the resolution nor the responsiveness of paper. The best solution I ever reached was paper notes which I then scanned, so I could carry all my notes on my laptop/tablet. Forget about this frankly OCD-sounding desire for neatly aligned banks of metadata-encrusted Faberge eggs of notecraft. It's far more important to focus on listening to what the hell is going on in the lecture, and comprehending it, which oftentimes means participation back the other way to clarify points being made in the lecture. You won't be able to get that clarification offline studying at home. If you are studying to be a clinical professional, focus on the skills that further that goal. Wasting effort on the Quest for Perfect Electronic Notes is a more appropriate activity for someone whose goal is, say, clinical informatics specialist. In summary: Grrrrr.
Re:pen and paper by loufoque · 2013-08-13 05:08 · Score: 1

Why is it always when you find an interesting underrated comment that you're out of mod points?
Re:pen and paper by intermodal · 2013-08-13 05:10 · Score: 2

Amen and amen. Excessive note taking means, in my experience, missing half the class.

--
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Re:pen and paper by loufoque · 2013-08-13 05:17 · Score: 1

A class is made for you the understand the subject topic.
Only note something once you've understood it.
Some students still haven't grasped this, which is astounding.
Re:pen and paper by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2013-08-13 05:22 · Score: 2

It's an analogous problem to tagging a huge collection of photos. This is a picture of my dog. Is it a #dog, a #fido, a #poodle, or what?
That's why ontologies and inference engines were created. Anyway, if the application doesn't at least offer semi-automated tagging, it's so 20th century (talking of text, of course - pictures will have to wait).

--
Ezekiel 23:20
Re:pen and paper by Colonel+Korn · 2013-08-13 05:27 · Score: 4, Insightful

Totally agree, PENCIL + PAPER is the answer.
Do you want to spend your time swapping between apps, waiting for apps to load, trying to draw with your laptop's touchpad, and otherwise concentrating on the technology rather than concentrating on the discussion?
If you want to review your paper notes and make them digital at some point after class, that is up to you. But for simple flexibility and reliability, paper is the answer.
Write on it. Draw on it. Re-use it in another class. Archive it. Paper does all the things asked for in the article.
OneNote and a tablet with an active digitizer is searchable pencil and paper. It's not any more cumbersome than a notebook but it's far better for finding old notes.

--
"I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
Re:pen and paper by wiredog · 2013-08-13 05:41 · Score: 1

Yep. What if the professors, or other students, find your incessant typing to be distracting? Can you mix sketching and writing on a digital document as fast as on paper?
How well will your laptop/tablet/whatever of choice hold up in environments with spurting blood and other contaminants?
I work on some of the TMIP-J software used by DoD for military medical and it' highly ambitious, and heavily unused by medics in the field. They use pencil and paper.

--

Best Slashdot Co
Re:pen and paper by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-13 05:43 · Score: 2, Informative

Learn shorthand. Get a good pen to avoid writing fatigue, I always preferred a mechanical pencil for mistakes(staedtler http://www.staedtler.com/en/products/pencils-accessories/mechanical-pencils/graphite-925-mechanical-pencil/#id=256&tx_solr%5Bpage%5D=1) ...that one has metal grip and cap w/ plastic tube. It will last for years and years.
Don't go smaller then .5 lead it breaks too much(.5-.7). Use a soft lead(B-HB, don't use F-H)to avoid writing fatigue/tearing paper, and it's easier to erase since you aren't pressing as hard. ...and a tube click eraser, use the one in the pencil cap for backup.
I always used graph paper(thin 3 ring binder) which allowed writing and technical drawing. Just don't get too fine of grid(such as EE paper). You can download images and print your own if you can't find anything appropriate, this may be most appropriate as you can size the grid to you writing size.
As to the computer... you won't have time. The great thing about a 3 ring binder is you can rearrange later if needed, e.g. take 1 thin binder to school, arrange the different classes/notes in their own bigger binder later. Your back will thank you.
Re:pen and paper by gmclapp · 2013-08-13 05:50 · Score: 2

I recently finished my degree in Mechanical Engineering. The way I found to be most efficient was to use a pen and paper and subsequently scan the notes. Then, for each of my classes, I had a folder for notes. I would put the scanned copy in all of the classes for which it might be relevant. Not just the one for which they were explicitly for.

--
Common Sense (+1)
Re:pen and paper by Russ1642 · 2013-08-13 05:57 · Score: 2

Is that going to be on the test? Should I write it down? Ok.
Re:pen and paper by Russ1642 · 2013-08-13 06:01 · Score: 2

The best pen for avoiding fatigue is a fountain pen, unless of course you're a left handed devil worshipper. You barely have to touch the page.
Re:pen and paper by camperdave · 2013-08-13 06:03 · Score: 2, Informative

Whatever you do, GET A SYSTEM.

For years was taking notes with paper and pen. I used the four color BIC pen; black is for titles, section headings, etc. Blue is for main body notes. Red is for references and underlining, and green is for activities, suggested reading, etc. I would also recommend the Cornell notetaking system. Also get some good notebooks so that you're not going to lose pages.

The problem with paper is searching for information. Using a system like Cornell will help for searching, but nothing beats an electronic search. For that, I'd recommend Microsoft OneNote. OneNote lets you have audio, video, text, clipart, and screen captures on the page. You can even insert documents from Word and Excel. You can arrange notes hierarchically, and cross link notes from other sections. OneNote allows collaberation. Although, I have not tried it (due to not having a tablet PC), you can even hand-write notes a-la pen and paper. OneNote can OCR this for you so that you don't have to try to read your own handwriting - a bonus in my case.

--
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Re:pen and paper by profplump · 2013-08-13 06:07 · Score: 1

How does changing the method of information capture relate to the question that was asked -- you know, the question actually in the summary, where the note taker wanted to facilitate information retrieval? If the note taker converted all of her notes to pen and paper copies, wouldn't the same problem still exist, except now with lots of paper to keep track of?
Re:pen and paper by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-13 06:16 · Score: 1

Sadly I must recommend Microsoft OneNote for the use-case described by the original question in the article.
Re:pen and paper by CanHasDIY · 2013-08-13 06:35 · Score: 2

A class is made for you the understand the subject topic.
Only note something once you've understood it.
Some students still haven't grasped this, which is astounding.
Not everyone learns the same; I find that I don't fully understand a topic until I've written my notes, looked at them, and gone "oh, shit, now it makes sense!"
Many educational facilities haven't grasped this.

--
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Re:pen and paper by intermodal · 2013-08-13 06:36 · Score: 1

Taking notes is very different from storing and archiving notes. I'm certainly an advocate of going back and typing them up, scanning or recreating (or even cut and pasting) any diagrams or graphics as needed. If nothing else, it's a good recap of what you learned and an opportunity to improve anything you had to cut short due to time constraints. But when it comes down to it, I haven't seen anything for in-class note-taking that beats manually writing it out on paper.

--
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Re:pen and paper by CanHasDIY · 2013-08-13 06:38 · Score: 1

Totally agree with this post, just wanted to offer up a couple resources:

Learn shorthand.
http://www.alysion.org/handy/althandwriting.htm

I always used graph paper... You can download images and print your own
http://incompetech.com/graphpaper/plain/

--
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Re:pen and paper by loufoque · 2013-08-13 06:38 · Score: 1

Not everyone learns the same; I find that I don't fully understand a topic until I've written my notes, looked at them, and gone "oh, shit, now it makes sense!"
How about you skip class altogether and just read notes then?
The reason we hold class is because the interesting thing isn't the notes, it's the class itself.
Re:pen and paper by CanHasDIY · 2013-08-13 06:43 · Score: 1

Not everyone learns the same; I find that I don't fully understand a topic until I've written my notes, looked at them, and gone "oh, shit, now it makes sense!"
How about you skip class altogether and just read notes then?
Ummm... how am I supposed to take notes if I skip the class alltogether?

The reason we hold class is because the interesting thing isn't the notes, it's the class itself.
That makes no sense. Whatsoever.

--
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Re:pen and paper by loufoque · 2013-08-13 06:49 · Score: 1

Ummm... how am I supposed to take notes if I skip the class alltogether?
Take someone else's?
How about the teacher's? Surely you realize he already has notes and could make copies of all he is going to write to all students. As a matter of fact, a lot of teachers do it, it's called duplicated notes.

That makes no sense. Whatsoever.
I'm sorry, there is nothing I can do if you can't understand simple English.
Re:pen and paper by ColdWetDog · 2013-08-13 06:51 · Score: 1

Pay attention. Yes. Been there, done that.
Tried a number of 'digital' (or analog, mostly) ways of recording lectures - nothing really works. Here's the real kicker: Unless you have a really unusual, high quality lecturer who is invested in teaching medical students, most of the lectures are pretty reflex and humdrum. Nothing that needs to be archived.
The few professors who really are interested in teaching will inevitably have a syllabus. So read the book, go to the lecture. Get some sleep (the hard part). Get in a study group of a couple of people you like and work with them - that's probably the most useful thing you can do and sometimes seems at odds to the way many people have learned to study. You're trying to cram down volumes of material in a short period of time, not solve difficult math problems or gain deep insights. It's mostly wrote memorization -- but at some point you have to do it to speak the language. Thinking comes later, in clinicals.
Then, once you graduate you won't be so terribly upset that most of what you learned past anatomy was just ... wrong. Even basic physiology got turned around in the twenty some years it''s been since medical school and I have no doubt that what is touted as the New Smart Thing will be just as incorrect as everything else I've tried to memorize. Get your anatomy down cold. Get the basic physiology down as best you can. Plan on reading up on everything else when you get there.
Fortunately, we live in a time where there are really high quality, on line, carefully vetted medical databases. Yes, they're likely wrong (as is much of what we do) but it''s the best we've got and it's at your fingertips.

--
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Re:pen and paper by CanHasDIY · 2013-08-13 06:58 · Score: 2

Ummm... how am I supposed to take notes if I skip the class alltogether?
Take someone else's?
How about the teacher's? Surely you realize he already has notes and could make copies of all he is going to write to all students. As a matter of fact, a lot of teachers do it, it's called duplicated notes.
You must've missed the part where I talked about writing my notes. See, it's not reading them that ingrains the information, but writing it down for myself. Otherwise, yea, fuck paying for class, I'd just buy the teacher's edition of the book.

That makes no sense. Whatsoever.
I'm sorry, there is nothing I can do if you can't understand simple English.
Says the guy who completely misinterpreted my plainly written post. Pot, kettle.
Word of advice, dude - try to actually understand what people say in their responses, before you get all butthurt and reactive. Not everyone who replies to your posts is taking a shot at you.

--
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Re:pen and paper by thebrieze · 2013-08-13 07:09 · Score: 4, Interesting

Livescribe. It's amazing. (http://www.livescribe.com/en-us/)

It is Pen + Paper, but everything written down is also digitized, searchable, synced to evernote etc. The pen is also a time synced voice recorder. When you go back to your notes (if you recorded the audio), you can tap on any word, and the audio corresponding to that point in time will start playing. You can now even start taking additional notes as the audio is playing. This can simplify your note taking to mostly just marking bookmarks, and noting your own thoughts, instead of transcribing what is being said.

While the paper is proprietary, the cost is quite reasonable, and it is possible (fully supported by Livescribe) to print your own. They are not operating on a Razor/Cartridge business model.

If you do not need wifi sync, you can get the Echo pen for really cheap, Look for the refurbished 4GB or 8GB Echo pens on the Livescribe site.
Re:pen and paper by larwe · 2013-08-13 07:21 · Score: 1

There is so much rightness in this message that I can really only quibble with your choice of writing implement. A 2mm clutch grip pencil (also from Staedtler, because hey I grew up with their stuff) http://www.restockit.com/mars-technico-lead-holder-2mm-lead-blue-(std780c).html?ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=STD780C&source=IDx20111014x00001g&utm_source=IDx20111014x00001g&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=comparison&utm_term=STD780C&bvar10=googlepla gives a more pencil-like feeling because it's using the actual type of lead that would be in a wood pencil. For large volumes of writing, however, the other poster who mentioned fountain pens is on the money. I use fine-point Parker and Bruynzeel cartridge type fountain pens for day to day note taking at work, and a Retro 51 for signing checks and contracts and such. I am still saving up for a really nice Mont Blanc or Waterman. I personally prefer grid paper (not graph paper per se), on 1/4" squares, because I find graph paper's large divisions are too large and the small divisions too small to act as writing guides. 1/4" grid paper is convenient for my small handwriting, and ideal for diagrams, including circuit diagrams, where things must remain orthogonal :) And you are totally correct on the "won't have time for computer" point.
Re:pen and paper by aardvarkjoe · 2013-08-13 07:29 · Score: 1

Totally agree, PENCIL + PAPER is the answer.
Pencils are for people that make mistakes.

--

How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
Re:pen and paper by larwe · 2013-08-13 07:43 · Score: 2

I'm going to go out on a (thick, short, sturdy and eminently defensible) limb here and state that automatically tagging, categorizing and usefully retrieving free-form input is a strong AI problem; the results you get out of any solution are probabilistic, and the stats of today's solutions are low.
Re:pen and paper by Like2Byte · 2013-08-13 07:55 · Score: 1

LiveScribe
I have one. It's an ink pen with a camera in the tip. The camera reads dots on special paper and digitally records whatever you are writing / scriblling / drawing. It also records audio.
It plays back the audio, too. On each sheet of paper there is a timeline. Touch the timeline with the pen and it plays back from 0% marker to the 100% marker. If you touch the paper to a section that the pen wrote/drew it will start playing the audio from *that* point, too. It's totally awesome.
www.livescribe.com
Oh, and no. I dont work (or know anyone who does) there.
Re:pen and paper by thebrieze · 2013-08-13 07:59 · Score: 1

Lernstift looks interesting. No mention of audio though. I wonder if the motion sensor would be as precise as Livescribe's.
Re:pen and paper by asliarun · 2013-08-13 08:06 · Score: 2

Ummm... how am I supposed to take notes if I skip the class alltogether?
Take someone else's?
How about the teacher's? Surely you realize he already has notes and could make copies of all he is going to write to all students. As a matter of fact, a lot of teachers do it, it's called duplicated notes.
You must've missed the part where I talked about writing my notes. See, it's not reading them that ingrains the information, but writing it down for myself. Otherwise, yea, fuck paying for class, I'd just buy the teacher's edition of the book.

That makes no sense. Whatsoever.
I'm sorry, there is nothing I can do if you can't understand simple English.
Says the guy who completely misinterpreted my plainly written post. Pot, kettle.
Word of advice, dude - try to actually understand what people say in their responses, before you get all butthurt and reactive. Not everyone who replies to your posts is taking a shot at you.
I would mod you up if I had points. I completely agree with you (and I'm not even sure why the previous commenter even got pissed!).
The purpose of taking notes is to distil what we are reading or listening or observing, and then noting it down on paper in a way that makes sense to us. The act itself has merit as lack of speed (and even laziness) forces us to quickly assimilate what we are hearing or seeing, and write it down as efficiently and quickly as we can so we don't fall behind in a lecture. More importantly, it forces us to think through the topic and formally defining it in our own terms.
I even argue that the best note taking happens when we are constrained by limited amounts of note paper. If I have only one page for an hour long lecture, I will really try hard to note down what I think are the important bits or the bits I would most likely forget.
The point really is not to compress the content from say, a hundred pages into one page - I really see the act of note taking as the act of learning itself.
Sure, I'm sure others have different and probably better ways of learning. However, this works for me and I haven't discovered a better way.
Re:pen and paper by semi-extrinsic · 2013-08-13 08:14 · Score: 1

Nothing that needs to be archived.
You miss the point. For some people, notetaking is the most efficient way of absorbing information. I've attended plenty lectures myself (incl. 6 years at university), and I will still take notes. I don't even have to re-read my notes at a later time for the note-taking to have a positive effect.

Anectode on electronic note taking: I once typed up notes from a 45min Quantum Field Theory lecture in LaTeX. It was a bet with a friend, and the lecturer looked at me like I was crazy. So I'd say that electronic note taking is possible for almost any lecture, but it may not be very practical.

--
for i in `facebook friends "=bday" 2>/dev/null | cut -d " " -f 3-`; do facebook wallpost $i "Happy birthday!"; done
Re:pen and paper by dantotheman · 2013-08-13 08:35 · Score: 1

Unfortunately, pen and paper lacks the benefit of the "find" function.

I can't tell you how many times I've yearned for ctrl+F while sorting through a stack of tree pulp.
Re:pen and paper by Guppy · 2013-08-13 08:36 · Score: 1

pen and paper
When I first started school, I would have agreed with you. Writing and studying from notes on paper just felt more natural, with fewer distractions. However, by the time I was into the second year, the sheer amount of paper becomes a problem. You end up with shelves of binders that are too heavy to move around, and take a lot of effort to keep organized.
OneNote was pretty good, combined with a convertible laptop-tablet PC. I almost never actually used the PC in tablet mode (too chunky, too awkward), but there were occasional times when the digitizer was good for sketching the occasional graph or figure. A caveat however -- OneNote 2003's drivers don't work properly in x64 Windows (and probably never will). There's a work-around, but it has some limitations.
Re:pen and paper by intermodal · 2013-08-13 08:36 · Score: 1

Sure, if you treat the note-taking process as a "write it and never handle that data again" process. And as others have noted, thanks to modern pen technology, your statement isn't exactly accurate.

--
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Re:pen and paper by Blakey+Rat · 2013-08-13 08:37 · Score: 1

You can do the same with OneNote on any device with a touchscreen. But the Livescribe is cheaper, if you don't already have a touchscreen laptop, convertible, or tablet.

--
Comment of the year
Re:pen and paper by CanHasDIY · 2013-08-13 08:39 · Score: 1

I'm not even sure why the previous commenter even got pissed!
Because I said something that sounded mildly contradictory, and according to the current edition of the Rules of the Internet, the appropriate response is to immediately get all butthurt and defensive.
Or maybe OP is just having a bad day.

--
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Re:pen and paper by dantotheman · 2013-08-13 08:52 · Score: 1

True, but that's why they would be presented as suggestions to the user rather than silently tagging in the background.

May not be entirely automatic, but sure beats having the user free-form type tags into a textbox.
Re:pen and paper by demonlapin · 2013-08-13 09:01 · Score: 1

If you are studying to be a clinical professional, focus on the skills that further that goal.

This is well-meant, and your advice is otherwise excellent, but the name of the game for a second-year med student is merely survival. The M2 and M3 students are expected to sponge up an absolutely unbelievable amount of information.
Re:pen and paper by multisync · 2013-08-13 09:05 · Score: 1

If you want to review your paper notes and make them digital at some point after class, that is up to you.
I'm in total agreement about pen(cil) and paper being the best tool for note-taking. I'm partial to centre-ruled, spiral-bound steno notepads myself. Transposing your handwritten notes to a more appropriate medium for long-term storage is also an essential part of the whole grokking process, imo. And that, I think, is the better question - how best to store, organize and make use of the content of your notes once the class is over.
Given the large volume and variety of data he will be compiling while in school and (hopefully) beyond, and the need to make connections between that and outside sources, I think a CMS might be in order. Drupal, for example.
He could create different Content Types to handle the various different forms of data he needs to store, and manage the relationships using Views. Links to outside information sources would be easy to imbed in the pages he creates, and there are plenty of modules for creating charts, graphs and whatever else he uses to visualize the data. He could either find a webhost or just run it on his laptop using something like WAMP (assuming he's running Windows).
I know the mention of Drupal generally inspires a collective groan around here, but I think this is a situation where it might fit the bill.

--
I don't care why you're posting AC
Re:pen and paper by larwe · 2013-08-13 09:10 · Score: 1

I still assert this is wasted cognitive effort and a poor focus for a student trying to absorb and comprehend complex material in class.
Re:pen and paper by Rich0 · 2013-08-13 09:12 · Score: 1

I love Livescribe, and I'm not even a student. If I were a student I'd REALLY love it - the thing seems like the perfect tool for note-taking.
I can type FAST. However, I doubt I'd ever want to take notes on a laptop or tablet. Sure, I could regurgitate words faster, but not being able to draw notes/etc at will with trivial effort would be a major shortcoming.
Livescribe lets you take notes and digitize them. The audio recording gives you context during review - I just make a mark if I think I missed something and go back and review.
If you're a student you should certainly try one out. I use the Echo. WiFi sync would be nice, but with 8GB of storage it really isn't essential - just plug the thing in once in a while.
Re:pen and paper by godrik · 2013-08-13 10:43 · Score: 1

I mostly aggree with you. But I have been using a galaxy note 10.1 for more than 6 months, and I am quite happy with its "stylus input". OP might want to try that.
Re:pen and paper by dantotheman · 2013-08-13 13:04 · Score: 1

Sure, if you treat the note-taking process as a "write it and never handle that data again" process.
Wouldn't trying to "find" something in a stack of papers be the opposite of never handling the data again? Thats the whole reason for trying retrieve it.
The modern pen technology mentioned here actually looks quite interesting. However, considering that you need either a special pen/paper (sometimes both) for them to work, a lot of the original flexibility is lost.
Re:pen and paper by dantotheman · 2013-08-13 13:07 · Score: 1

Not refuting that (though I have my doubts). Just pointing out this isn't really that strong of an AI problem if you let a human sort through the most probable tags and make the final decision.
Re: pen and paper by larwe · 2013-08-13 13:16 · Score: 1

I respectfully disagree about the utility of the automatic solution, but will cordially debate it with you, if necessary coding real-time, over beers :-) Difficulty level: pick a city I can get to with my frequent flyer miles.
Re:pen and paper by theatrociousone · 2013-08-14 06:31 · Score: 1

This (INRE to shorhand).

Dating myself here, but when I went through high school typing (and shorthand) were offered elective classes. I took them both, and was the only male in the shorthand class.

It served me exceedingly well in college (for the amount of time I attended), and has continued to serve me since. There have been several periods during my career where for short spurts of time, I had to absorb (and note) even more information than I did in college lectures and I never had any trouble keeping up with the flow rate of information.

And the act of later transcribing from shorthand to longhand gave me an even more resilient, time-resistant understanding (not just recall) of the information.
Re:pen and paper by painandgreed · 2013-08-14 06:33 · Score: 1

Except It costs hundreds of times as much, is relatively delicate and requires a power source.
Luckily, it's a trivial expense compared to tuition and other associated costs, is no more delicate than the electronics that are already being carried around, and they probably aren't holding class in a non-electrified jungle so it couldn't be recharged. If such a thing like a tablet with OneNote would actually help a person's workflow (and it might not work for everybody), it's probably worth it to get one and use it.
Re: pen and paper by dantotheman · 2013-08-14 13:20 · Score: 1

What kind of debate would be complete without a coding marathon and beers!

One Note? by Andrio · 2013-08-13 04:52 · Score: 3, Informative

See subject.

--
The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.

Re:One Note? by adonoman · 2013-08-13 04:58 · Score: 2

This would seem to fit. When you search in OneNote it'll give you a list of all the pages that have that search term (including UCRing images, and searching through recorded audio).
Re:One Note? by smittyoneeach · 2013-08-13 05:13 · Score: 3, Insightful

Emacs. Org mode. Long after One Note goes the way of Bob, Emacs will chug on.

--
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Re:One Note? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2013-08-13 05:17 · Score: 1

I was going to say Org Mode, too, but then I realized that Dynabook Jr. could be an answer to many woes of personal computing - if (when?) it gets "finished" (due to it being an open system, the quotation marks are sort of mandatory).

--
Ezekiel 23:20
Re:One Note? by Defenestrar · 2013-08-13 05:25 · Score: 1

It's come a long way in the last few versions - in addition to what the post mentioned, you can even pull in things from Outlook if you're emailed course notes/tasks/homework/etc...
Re:One Note? by Trepidity · 2013-08-13 05:31 · Score: 1

The files are also pretty readable plain text, vaguely inspired by markdown. So even if org mode somehow disappears, you will still be able to read the damn things, whereas that's less likely to be the case if some day you're stuck with some decades-old janky binary format for a discontinued piece of software.
On the other hand, the learning curve is a bit steep if you've never used Emacs.

--
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Re:One Note? by ericloewe · 2013-08-13 05:45 · Score: 4, Interesting

I'll add my two cents for OneNote.
Pen & eraser input on tablets that support it (Surface Pro, for instance), OCR, handwriting recognition, speech recognition... And it's relatively easy to use.
Re:One Note? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-13 06:12 · Score: 1

Definitely OneNote. You could print anything (you do in word/excel/visio/etc) to it as well and then let it keep track of your tags etc.
Re:One Note? by smittyoneeach · 2013-08-13 06:30 · Score: 1

In defense of One Note, its format is XML.

--
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Re:One Note? by ColdWetDog · 2013-08-13 07:11 · Score: 1

Is there a GUI for this?

--
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Re:One Note? by smittyoneeach · 2013-08-13 10:32 · Score: 1

Emacs is indifferent to whether the user brings a terminal or a graphical desktop to the party. Was that your question?
Other than that, usage boils down mostly to the tab key. So beautifully simple.

--
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Re:One Note? by sandytaru · 2013-08-13 13:37 · Score: 1

I'm a recent convert myself. It's just amazing for keeping crap organized at work.

--
Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
Re:One Note? by darkfeline · 2013-08-13 18:10 · Score: 1

I'll chip in for Vim and vimoutliner+VOoM. Much better in my opinion than Emacs and its twisted C-chords.
voom: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2657
vimoutliner: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=3515
Re:One Note? by jess_wundring · 2013-08-14 06:22 · Score: 1

Oh man, I am a HUGE fan of OneNote...
In addition to text, video, images, urls, content from urls, OneNote also lets you embed audio and any other files you might want, even executables.
It has ink features so you can write long hand if you're using a tablet, then later "lasso" the script and convert it into text using the builtin OCR. You can also draw on a page using your tablet. Pages can be as long and as wide as you want, and will automatically vary in size in concert with what's on the particular page.
Moving things around is easy whether within a page or between books. It creates a sort of textbox of grouped content for dragging around to a difference place. The organizational structure is "books" containing "sections" containing "pages" and you can even have "sub-Pages" if you really want.
You can make your own templates for different kinds of pages (note taking, analysis, experiment, for example) and everything (excluding the embedded files) is instantly full text searchable. Everything you place on any page, including audio files, becomes fully searchable.
The one downside is that it won't, as far as I can tell, incorporate other types of embedded files into its search index. Sure it will make the file's metadata (like name) available within search, but not the file's contents.

Microsoft OneNote by lw54 · 2013-08-13 04:53 · Score: 4, Informative

Since you're needing to record info from Word, Excel and Visio, OneNote would be perfect to consolidate the information in place. You can also include images, video and webpages.

Re:Microsoft OneNote by bemymonkey · 2013-08-13 06:29 · Score: 1

This, but with an active digitizer. I'm in engineering myself, but I can't imagine medicine requiring much more on this front...

this could be done by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-13 04:55 · Score: 1

You could try a Wiki

Xmind by Tsiangkun · 2013-08-13 04:55 · Score: 2

Xmind.net

Re:Xmind by Tsiangkun · 2013-08-13 04:57 · Score: 1

Although I find it useful, I always go back to pen and paper when I need to work at a pace other than my own, such as one being dictated by a speaker.

*golf clap* by MagicM · 2013-08-13 04:56 · Score: 5, Insightful

A wonderfully creative way to post a slashvertisement for Microsoft OneNote. Well done.

Re:*golf clap* by narcc · 2013-08-13 06:35 · Score: 1

Spam? Maybe, but OneNote is, well, exactly what our hapless med student seems to want.
Is there an alternative that's as good? Evernote, Remember, and Google Keep are great, sure, but they hardly compare. Hate Microsoft all you want, but OneNote is undoubtedly best-in-class.

--
Required reading for internet skeptics
Re:*golf clap* by Blakey+Rat · 2013-08-13 08:34 · Score: 1

If the open source community wants to crow about having a truly great note-taking app, it first needs to ... actually have a truly great note-taking app.
Hate Microsoft if you want, but OneNote is the best at what it does. Kind of like Wolverine.

--
Comment of the year
Re:*golf clap* by poity · 2013-08-13 10:15 · Score: 1

Is the transistor terrible because some Americans created it?
And if you like what transistors do, you must be an American shill?

--
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
Re:*golf clap* by sandytaru · 2013-08-13 13:39 · Score: 1

I can still think Microsoft is evil, curse Windows 8 with all my might and shake my fist at Redmond, and also think OneNote is the shit. A broken clock is right twice a day.

--
Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.

Flash cards by pbaer · 2013-08-13 04:56 · Score: 1

http://mnemosyne-proj.org/ This is an excellent program flash card program. You rate flash cards by how well you know them and it does automatic scheduling. Cards you know well show up less often than cards you don't know. You can include images and sounds. It has a good tagging system so you can mark a card for multiple areas. You choose which subjects you want the cards to cover. For example, you could look at all your cards on coronary arteries regardless of subject, or you could look specifically at coronary arteries for one particular class. The key to getting the most out of this program is to include questions that cannot be answered with memorization. Include flash cards that force you to explain the why and the what.

--
There are 11 types of people, those who know unary and those who don't.

Re:Flash cards by ColdWetDog · 2013-08-13 07:24 · Score: 1

That's pretty interesting. One technique that actually worked well for me was flashcards with a couple of other people. We'd carry them around and pop them out at meals and in boring lectures. A decent program might make sharing the cards pretty easy.

--
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!

Org mode in Emacs by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-13 04:57 · Score: 1

Flamewars aside, Org mode is my latest love when taking notes and organizing my life. Collapsable text, easily inserted hyperlinks to web pages and documents, it's almost wiki-like. It worked well for me in law school, but some of my friends really liked OmniOutliner (and a few other programs from that same family of sofware).

Re:Org mode in Emacs by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-13 05:10 · Score: 1

A thousand times that. I organize my research (geochemistry) with org-mode. Read a paper, make a note with relevant tags. Begin a paper, schedule conferences/meetings/classes, keep tabs on projects. It is awesome, and everything you do is edit simple text files. You will never get locked out or lose some of it because of an "upgrade"
Re:Org mode in Emacs by YurB · 2013-08-13 07:48 · Score: 1

I use Org all the time. I even wrote my masters in it (exported to LaTeX and PDF).

evernote +1 by alen · 2013-08-13 04:57 · Score: 2

you can write your own notes and tag them
you can clip websites and news articles as well and tag them

60MB per month for the free account and $45 per year after that. and it works on a computer, phone, tablet

Re:evernote +1 by camperdave · 2013-08-13 05:20 · Score: 1

Content blocked by your organization
Reason: This Websense category is filtered: Personal Network Storage and Backup.

^THIS^ is the problem with any cloud based solution. Your data is only available at the whim of the sysadmins.

--
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!

Re:Um...as a patient, I'm hoping you MEMORIZE it by alen · 2013-08-13 04:59 · Score: 1

no one can remember that much info on a long term basis

that's why all doctors are in some specialty and most of their problems are the same ones every day so they can remember some frequently used info

Lab books and mind-mapping software maybe? by gstoddart · 2013-08-13 05:00 · Score: 4, Interesting

Me, I've used those standard black lab books for my note taking for my daily work for almost 2 decades, and it's tough to do better. At least, for me it is.

You can always write your own mind maps or some kind of wiki later ... but, for the first pass, nothing is more flexible than pen and paper notes since it supports multiple languages, terminologies, and creating diagrams. No upgrades of licenses to worry about. ;-)

And a lab book has the advantage of being hard-covered as well as being pretty obvious if pages have been removed (which is why they use them as lab books in the first place).

Technology has all sorts of failure points and limitations. And most alternatives to pen and paper either have in-built limitations, or in the long run are harder to actually keep your notes with.

I'm not saying you shouldn't look at some technology to see if it helps, but for me, good old fashioned bound paper notebooks are still my preferred way, and look to remain so. I've got a stack of about 40-50 to them that I periodically refer back to.

--
Lost at C:>. Found at C.

Re:Lab books and mind-mapping software maybe? by sconeu · 2013-08-13 05:18 · Score: 1

If I had mod points I'd mod you up.
In class, nothing is better than Pencil and Paper Mark One.

--
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.

Use paper and pen. Scan later to pdf by vivek7006 · 2013-08-13 05:01 · Score: 2

Especially with all the drawings/figures and equations, its best to use paper and pen. Buy a good quality scanner and scan all your notes into pdf at the end of the day. Tablets/laptops jdont work because they actually slow you down. Also, I feel that taking notes with pen/paper help me stay focused during lectures

Paper, Pen, and... by wjcofkc · 2013-08-13 05:03 · Score: 3, Informative

My favorite way to study in a situation like yours is to first take my notes the old fashioned way: with paper and pen in class. I then take those notes, along with applicable textbooks, and manually compose them in whatever software makes sense, typically LibreOffice Writer. The act of first taking notes the old fashioned way, and then cross referencing with the textbook, while in turn creating a highly refined set of notes in an application, strongly re-enforces what I am studying in my brain. I know that's kind of like wrote rehearsal, which is considered a bad study habit, but I disagree with that philosophy (wrote rehearsal = good). Plus the act of composing more highly refined notes from your originals takes it one step beyond that.

Past that, I really don't think there is a single application that will filter all your notes automagically into so many different formats.

--
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.

Re:Paper, Pen, and... by gstoddart · 2013-08-13 05:27 · Score: 4, Insightful

. I know that's kind of like wrote rehearsal, which is considered a bad study habit, but I disagree with that philosophy (wrote (sic) rehearsal = good).
Except what you're describing isn't rote rehearsal. The act of synthesizing your notes from multiple sources into a coherent thing actually causes you to think about what it all means and understand it in a broader context.
Me, the one and only time I decided I was going to cheat on an exam, by time time I wrote up my notes containing the information I wanted and had it all laid out the way I wanted -- I didn't need my notes. It was like studying works or something. ;-)
Rote rehearsal is just memorizing without really thinking about what it means -- and you can't easily rearrange, summarize, and cross reference your own notes without thinking about the meaning of it.

--
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:Paper, Pen, and... by wjcofkc · 2013-08-13 05:34 · Score: 1

Point taken.

--
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.

Re:Um...as a patient, I'm hoping you MEMORIZE it by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-13 05:05 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'm not studying a doctor, but I've never had any trouble cramming information in my head. Despite that I take detailed, copious notes in a very organized and thorough manner. That's part of HOW I cram the information in my head.

I guarantee you, as a patient, you have NO idea how your doctor studied in med school unless you also have a personal relationship with your doctor. Being "scared" about this is just mindless and insulting.

MediaWiki? by krotscheck · 2013-08-13 05:10 · Score: 1

Create a MediaWiki for yourself, and crossreference as you go? I did this for my MBA 5 years ago, and it worked wonders.

--
This signature can save you $400 on your car insurance!

Re:MediaWiki? by krotscheck · 2013-08-13 07:03 · Score: 1

I have a hosting account at pair.com - that way I could share it with my classmates. The downside was that the internet in some of the classrooms was spotty, for which I fell back to paper/pencil.

--
This signature can save you $400 on your car insurance!

Re:Um...as a patient, I'm hoping you MEMORIZE it by MightyYar · 2013-08-13 05:18 · Score: 1

Doctors Google. Sorry to disappoint you, but really do you want to rely on someone's memory?

--
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.

Re:Um...as a patient, I'm hoping you MEMORIZE it by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2013-08-13 05:19 · Score: 2

The doctors that I've known have been able to cram away a lot of information in their heads

Exactly, that's why they never have sizable libraries in their offices.

--
Ezekiel 23:20

Having been through medical school... by Duncan+J+Murray · 2013-08-13 05:25 · Score: 1

... I suggest you try to ensure you get handouts and then devote 100% of your concentration to listening and interpreting what you're being told.

If you write things down, you won't look at 90% of it. You will need it all in your memory at some point - either for the exams or when you're practising, so better commit it to memory in the first place. And, no, writing it down does not help with that.

My only warning is never to believe 100% anything anyone teaches you - no-one knows everything about everything, and the evidence and research is always changing.

Re:Having been through medical school... by GodfatherofSoul · 2013-08-13 06:03 · Score: 1

The trick to note taking is knowing what to write down. Don't do dictation. I disagree that note taking is pointless because I found myself constantly consulting mine for my bachelor's. But, you are right if you just robotically dictate you can't keep up with the professor and will miss information trying to write everything down.

--
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!

based on my experiences by Trepidity · 2013-08-13 05:29 · Score: 1

As a researcher (patient) studying the social practices of doctors (visiting their offices), my tentative conclusions are that the industry-standard note-taking practices are currently: 1) a web browser; 2) open to WebMD.

--
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10

Re:based on my experiences by dostephen · 2013-08-14 08:09 · Score: 1

As a researcher (patient) studying the social practices of doctors (visiting their offices), my tentative conclusions are that the industry-standard note-taking practices are currently: 1) a web browser; 2) open to WebMD.
You simply have no idea of what you are talking about. Medical school forces even the reluctant among us to become literally scholars of the human mind, body and even the spirit, if we meet a wise mentor. I would ask the writer if he went to college, and if so what the largest load of serious science course he took at one time in a semester. In my second year of med school, we had 16 courses, each with it's own comprehensive final and we were scheduled to be in class 40 hours a week. In this age of molecular medicine a physician needs to know where, and in which of our cells a medication works and which genes it turns on or off that govern a particular metabolic process. This is in addition to knowing the anatomy and physiology (again to the molecular and genetic level) of the entire human body and all of its organ systems. Try looking up one organ system and remembering the details well enough to stand up to extremely vigorous interrogation. I'll give you a year to do it. When you are ready for your test just let me know.
Re:based on my experiences by Trepidity · 2013-08-14 12:05 · Score: 1

I'm a CS professor in my day-job. I've met lots of med-school students, and I'm not all that impressed. Some are smart, some aren't. Some are good at memorizing piles of things, some aren't. I will grant you that med school students do think spending a lot of hours in class and studying a lot for exams is some kind of virtue in itself.
But if you look at working doctors some decades out of med school, they make heavy use of simple, standard references. This is not a criticism of them, because doing so is reasonable. Much of medicine is now standardized. Following flow-chart procedures produces measurably better patient outcomes than using ad-hoc doctors' judgment does. Evidence-based medicine is transforming the field, though it's not done doing so yet.

--
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10

Surface Pro tablet and OneNote by Ambassador+Kosh · 2013-08-13 05:30 · Score: 1

For this kind of application I can't think of anything better. OneNote is probably the best note taking app out there and the surface pro and a real digitizer and a digital pen so you can take good notes with it.

I picked up a galaxy note 8 for my engineering classes (since it also has a digitizer) and for what I do it works very well. I would have gotten a surface pro except that they are so much more expensive.

For any class where you have drawings it is hard to beat a tablet with a real digitizer. I used to type all my notes and that was harder to do as my engineering classes ended up with more and more diagrams. I also did not want to deal with pen and paper anymore since it is so hard to deal with it, find stuff in it, keep track of it, share information etc.

You can also look at other windows 8 tablets (NOT windows RT) and find ones with real digitizers (preferably wacom) and digital pens. There are some lenovo ones that are supposed to be nice.

--
Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD! :)

Remember the one hour equals three hours rule. by rjforster · 2013-08-13 05:31 · Score: 5, Interesting

I was told this when I started at university but it took me until my final year to truly grok it.

Each one hour lecture should take 3 hours of your time. One hour in the lecture itself, one hour within the next day or two (at most, ideally same day so things are fresher in your mind) when you annotate the notes you had taken, redraw bad diagrams, look stuff up etc. Don't hope or expect to get 'perfect' notes from the lecture itself. Then finally one hour before the exam to go over that hour of lecture time.

As others have said, pen and paper is king for that first hour in the lecture itself. Anything you try to do with technology should concentrate on the second hour.

Re:Remember the one hour equals three hours rule. by gstoddart · 2013-08-13 05:44 · Score: 1

As others have said, pen and paper is king for that first hour in the lecture itself. Anything you try to do with technology should concentrate on the second hour.
And, cynically, I will say that trying to do that with the technology is in the long run going to cost you a lot more than that 1 hour.
Instead of thinking purely about the content, you're looking at fonts, layouts, application upgrades, file formats ... and not what you're trying to study.
Technology is cool and useful, but sometimes it also creates more work unrelated to what it is you're trying to achieve.
Don't get yourself into a position where you're become a slave to your technology and keeping it working is more work than benefit in terms of you understanding the stuff you're studying.
You don't want to spend a bunch of years in med school only to realize that you need to be a full time sysadmin in order to keep accessing your notes. Because I'm betting once you're out in the world, that software environment you so lovingly crafted is going to be low on your list of things to maintain, and if you don't maintain it you no longer have the information.

--
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:Remember the one hour equals three hours rule. by adonoman · 2013-08-13 06:31 · Score: 1

I can't say that any of my university classes were so dense that there was three hours of information packed into a single lecture. I'd say half of them were about 10 minutes of information packed into an hour-long lecture and obfuscated to make it seem like there was more content that there was.
Re:Remember the one hour equals three hours rule. by rjforster · 2013-08-13 10:24 · Score: 1

I can't say that any of my university classes were so dense that there was three hours of information packed into a single lecture. I'd say half of them were about 10 minutes of information packed into an hour-long lecture and obfuscated to make it seem like there was more content that there was.
It's not 3 hours of information. It's 3 hours of your life needed to pass an exam on whatever information was in that hour. So if it were 10 minutes of useful information then the second hour is finding and fully understanding that from within the first hour, if it wasn't obvious. Then nearer exam time another hour reminding yourself about it all and doing a few sample questions to get you ready.
As I put earlier it was only in my final year that I realised just how true this piece of first year (probably first week actually) advice was for my situation. It may well be different for different people studying different subjects but it was uncannily accurate for me.

Livescribe Smart Pen by tehfeer · 2013-08-13 05:41 · Score: 1

A smart-pen along with ever-note have been great for law school. It digitizes your paper notes and allows you click a section of notes to go directly to that part of the lecture.

Re:Livescribe Smart Pen by mark_reh · 2013-08-13 05:56 · Score: 1

My smartpen got me through a couple years of didactic classes at dental school. Highly recommended. Gretaly speeds study time, boosts study efficiency, and minimizes note taking.

45 lecture hours plus two all nighters by peter303 · 2013-08-13 05:42 · Score: 3, Insightful

Seems to have been my actual rule :-)

Pen and Paper + Document Management by Blackshadow · 2013-08-13 05:45 · Score: 1

For capturing the information during class, go with a fountain pen and paper. Particularly for multi-hour classes, a good fountain pen (~$30) can ease hand strain and fatigue. Focus on concise notes and diagrams that summarize the information. Often hand-outs will contain the information you need to memorize. Then, get a good scanner and document management platform. I used Devon Think (http://www.devontechnologies.com/products/devonthink/devonthink-pro-office.html) for organization of case files in law school. After scanning and OCR conversion, I let it create logical links between files. In this way, I did not have to worry about creating meta-tags or manual linking. Yes, I did go back in and create links later, but most of the time the automated routines worked. Yes, it will take time to learn in the beginning. Budget about eight hours to start over the course of a few days. The rewards are there if you are willing to invest in the program.

Re:Pen and Paper + Document Management by Russ1642 · 2013-08-13 06:14 · Score: 1

I think you're missing a zero. There's no good fountain pen to be had for $30.
Re:Pen and Paper + Document Management by Dcnjoe60 · 2013-08-13 06:32 · Score: 1

I think you're missing a zero. There's no good fountain pen to be had for $30.
There are numerous good fountain pens in that price range if your concern is writing ability. After all, it is the nib that does the writing, most expensive pens use the same nibs as much lower quality pens. The extra cost is for the brand name and the materials the barrel is made from. Some of the best writers come from SE Asia, where fountain pens are still very common. While not prestigious as their European brethren, if one is after write-ability, Japan and China have a plethora of pens to choose from. There are even some pretty decent US pens if you are willing to go up to $40. Do they write as well as an expensive Montblanc maybe not, but then again, would you really take an expensive Montblanc with you while examining sick patients patients?

Take notes with emacs by WarJolt · 2013-08-13 05:46 · Score: 2

Most graphs formulas and daigrams are in the book or available online. I take notes with emacs and search with grep.

I've thought about using a corporate wiki like confluence to take school notes, but didn't want to shell out $10 a month.

Google Glass by gmuslera · 2013-08-13 05:46 · Score: 1

Or a camera, or better yet, that your class have a camera that takes everything and publish it later in youtube or a students portal for everyone there. You can take the notes later, don't mess your attention fiddling with a touchscreen keyboard, a bulky notebook or switching apps.

Also, getting an antivirus warning in a medical class will be pretty embarrasing.

get a fountain pen, a good notebook, and good ink by SuperBanana · 2013-08-13 05:51 · Score: 2

I would add: Get a decent (~$100-200) fountain pen, good quality notebooks, and quality ink.

Waterman makes the Expert 2 and is a pretty safe recommendation, but there are a bunch of others out there to try. Note that fountain pens should be held extremely lightly against the writing surface, and are not really ideal for occasional use if you live in a dry climate. For daily or bi-daily use, they'll be fine.

Clairefontaine sells notebooks with superb paper that is very smooth, strong, and thick enough to not bleed through to the other size...and sells proper cloth-covered, stitched-binding notebooks.

Noodler's Ink has "bulletproof" varieties which will not run or bleed from almost any common solvent or bleaching agent, making them quite ideal for labs and such (or if you simply drop your notebook in a puddle.) Doubles as a very good ink for signing important documents.

--
Please help metamoderate.

OneNote Has the Force! by SnappyTech · 2013-08-13 05:52 · Score: 1

Answer: OneNote is the ultimate note taking app and I find its layout to be far more my liking than Evernote. Evernote actually repulses me graphically. It is actually the main app preventing me from moving over to Linux Mint. Libre Office suffices in place of Word and Excel, but nothing out there comes close to the power of OneNote. Listen, extremists, I'm sorry I am endorsing a Microsoft product! OneNote 2003 can run under WINE except for a few things that are trivial to me (search up the WINE compatibility database -- very useful). OneNote 2013 will not run under WINE for a *long* time, I'm sure. Only Windows flavors of OneNote are worthy of the name -- the iOS & Android varients are not good. Try to keep all comments relative to note taking software, so this fellow gets his problem solved.

Re:Um...as a patient, I'm hoping you MEMORIZE it by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-13 06:02 · Score: 4, Informative

>> I'm just starting year two of medical school, and I've been rethinking the way I make and create notes/study guides

As a former medical student (and now practicing physician), I'm amazed you're going to class in the second year. It may sound like a joke, but at my medical school, the entire second year class could not fit into the auditorium at the same time....people just stopped going, and relied on the note taking service and read their books or the syllabus provided for the class. I guess if you're in a PBL program it may be different....but then your material is already organized that way (see below for PBL)

You're scaring me dude. The doctors that I've known have been able to cram away a lot of information in their heads, and note-taking wasn't one of their problems in year two of med school. As a potential patient, you have me worried already...

Meh....you learn a lot of junk in the first two years of school. Its like learning to rivet and weld so that you can fly a plane....yeah, it's nice to know, but most pilots don't need to know it. The problem is, to be a good doctor you need to know a lot of specialized information, that requires understanding of basic material. Since you don't (can't) know what you're going to specialize in in the future, they fill your head with what we think a doctor should know. As time and training go on, you forget a lot of the information that you don't use (and don't need to know). But a lot of it is still there....I amaze my residents by recalling tidbits I learned 10 years ago and never saw or used since...that's what makes a good physician a great one.

And as far as sitting in class and memorizing it....I will just tell you that you have no idea of the volume of material that is poured into medical students. Which in and of itself is a problem, but you also (as mentioned) need to mentally cross-reference the material to other lectures over several years. Part of this is why they have been doing problem based learning....instead of teaching anatomy, physiology, microbiology, genetics, pharmacology, pathology, neuroscience, and clinical medicine as separate classes, they now teach a cardiology core where you learn heart anatomy, heart physiology, heart microbiology, heart genetics, heart pharmacology, heart pathology, heart neuroscience(lol), and clinical heart medicine, followed by the pulmonary core....etc

Re:Um...as a patient, I'm hoping you MEMORIZE it by Russ1642 · 2013-08-13 06:04 · Score: 2

The best doctors are the ones who are experts at looking things up. The ones that think they already know everything because they went to med school are the ones to be worried about.

"The Brain" by Bodhammer · 2013-08-13 06:09 · Score: 1

"The Brain" software is a pretty interesting 3-D mind mapping software and supports tagging and linking. The have a free single user version - http://www.thebrain.com/

--
"I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

Re:"The Brain" by pionzypher · 2013-08-14 07:10 · Score: 1

+1

The combination of mind mapping + the rtf notes + tagging makes for a flexible note taking system that works well for me. The price is pretty crazy though for the pro version (among other things, allows attachments). Ultimately I've found it worth the price (still not happy about it though).

--
I'll believe in corporations having personhood when Texas executes one... - advocate_one

Here you go... by jcr · 2013-08-13 06:18 · Score: 1

Check out "Notebook" from Circus Ponies. Available for Mac and iOS.

-jcr

--
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."

Mind mapping software, anyone? by Dcnjoe60 · 2013-08-13 06:23 · Score: 1

This sounds like a natural fit for mind mapping software. While normally touted for brainstorming activities or connecting free form thought. It can be used to associate the related but varied sources of information the questioner is asking about. And there are various offerings available on Windows, Mac and Linux.

Re:You still have time to change your mind! by EmagGeek · 2013-08-13 06:26 · Score: 1

Is this what you are talking about?

http://www.radiologydaily.com/daily/neuroradiology/iowa-court-clears-radiologist-in-alcohol-case/

Re:get a fountain pen, a good notebook, and good i by xaxa · 2013-08-13 06:46 · Score: 1

I also prefer to use a fountain pen, but here in Britain they're not sold only as expensive fashion accessories (though there's certainly a market for that).

So, save $80-$180, and buy a good quality fountain pen from eBay.co.uk or eBay.de. I have a couple of "Online" ones, and they're fine -- one was £3 (probably because it's an ugly yellow colour) and the other about £10.

(I still have the one my mum bought me when I started secondary school. Still works fine! I use it at work. It was "Made in West Germany" and everything...)

n-dimensional x-referencing will mess up your head by Qbertino · 2013-08-13 06:51 · Score: 1

N-dimensional x-referencing will mess up your head, don't do it and don't try to do it, no matter what hightech gadgets you have access to.

To be honest, for this problem - especially because it's so n-dimensional - I'd deliberately choose *not* to use hightech but to stick with quality notebooks (Leuchtturm are my favourite) and a good pen/fountain pen (Lamy is my favorite) and rely on spacial memory ("Roughly where in notebook was I when we had that lecture?") which relates 1 to 1 to the sequence of your curriculum. You can use colored markers and sticky-tabs to sort things out when rehearsing/prepping. Once a notebook is full you even can get cute and write the contents table (Leuchtturms all have one + numbered pages).

This may seem low-tech, but nothing bets that when you have to memorize your stuff by heart and have to be able to recall it in an exam. You'll find stuff much faster than by using some computer UI. ... Let it be 10-30 notebooks when you're finally a medical doctor. So what? You can still photograph each page and digitally store it and metatag those images later on if you want to through them away someday. Or you can pay someone to do that. And do use top quality notebooks and pens. They are fun to use and take the boredom out of taking notes!

My 2 cents.

--
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca

I can't hear you. by westlake · 2013-08-13 07:18 · Score: 1

A wonderfully creative way to post a slashvertisement for Microsoft OneNote. Well done.

calling the parent post a slashvertisement is a pretty clever way of getting around the problem that OneNote is very good at what it does.

well done.

Re:Um...as a patient, I'm hoping you MEMORIZE it by ColdWetDog · 2013-08-13 07:19 · Score: 1

Note taking (and dealing the the cram fest that was medical school class instruction) WAS (and I am sure, still is) a big problem for medical students. Too much information, too little time. The whole point of the first two years of med school is to cram the basics of anatomy and physiology down people's throats. It's pretty much out and out memorization.

What most schools don't teach instructors is how to teach a detail oriented, time limited subject in a coherent fashion. Most med school lecturers aren't really happy they are there and aren't terribly well plugged into the bigger picture. Lectures tend to be disjointed and incomplete. There are a few gems, but most of the lecture content is pretty meh. You still have to memorize it. And sort of understand it. And regurgitate it. And relearn when it turns out to be hopelessly wrong.

Med schools is rather different from the actual practice of medicine, people who did well in school don't necessarily make the best clinicians and vice versa. No profound answers, but I understand where the OP is coming from.

--
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!

Re:Um...as a patient, I'm hoping you MEMORIZE it by ColdWetDog · 2013-08-13 07:20 · Score: 1

Actually, we UptoDate, but we don't rely on our increasingly fallible memories except for stuff we use all of the time.

--
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!

Re:Um...as a patient, I'm hoping you MEMORIZE it by ColdWetDog · 2013-08-13 07:22 · Score: 1

Sorry to break your bubble, but those 'libraries' are pretty much for show. These days, one's library is hidden in the smart phone.

--
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!

Netelligence by cyberneticist · 2013-08-13 07:32 · Score: 1

I'm building a web based notebook system called netelligence which works well for my students. It's still in beta, has been for a year, but allows you to create and share notebooks and add in hand drawn images, photos, written notes, tables etc, even contacts, dates, appointments, youtube videos, etc! It also has a bookmarklet to allow you to grab web links and store them on your pages. If anyone wants to try it out it is at http://www.netelligence.co.uk/Netelligence2013/ and is free.

Scrivener by cmattdetzel · 2013-08-13 08:02 · Score: 1

I've found Scrivener to be invaluable in my law practice. See http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener.php.

It's available for Mac, Windows, and Linux (currently in beta). You can take the notes in whatever format or program you like, bring in PDFs, images, media files (such as dictation or lecture recordings), etc., and organize them as part of a Scrivener project.

Scrivener is extremely robust and offers multiple ways to view and organize your notes (such as in an outline or as notecards on a corkboard). You can choose what information gets compiled into a document for printing (such as an outline of a particular topic) and apply different formatting without having to change the source formatting. It's also great for handling endnotes and footnotes.

Re:get a fountain pen, a good notebook, and good i by semi-extrinsic · 2013-08-13 08:19 · Score: 1

Agreed. I have a $5 Chinese-brand fountain pen and a $45 Lamy-brand fountain pen. It depends on the paper type, but on most paper I actually prefer the Chinese one.

--
for i in `facebook friends "=bday" 2>/dev/null | cut -d " " -f 3-`; do facebook wallpost $i "Happy birthday!"; done

Re:get a fountain pen, a good notebook, and good i by rjforster · 2013-08-13 10:43 · Score: 1

I took most of my degree notes with a battered Sheaffer Imperial Flighter which is about as old as me but still writes beautifully. Today I'm never without my Pilot Capless.

Livescribe + Evernote/Onenote/GoogleDocs by Nassai · 2013-08-13 11:19 · Score: 1

I am not a medical student. However, keeping records of multiple projects, on a wide variety of subjects is a challenge I face. As others have indicated, paper and pen is hard to beat. But digital searching/tagging of my notes is a really useful feature. I have a Livescribe Echo, I am able to take notes, and record meetings. My laptop automatically synchronises with Google Docs, and I have a tablet PC with a stylus. It means that whatever option I use.... tablet or paper.... it all ends up in the same repository. I am thinking about using Evernote instead, it seems to have a great deal of features that Google Docs/Drive does not have.

Write Out Your Notes by utkonos · 2013-08-13 13:24 · Score: 1

You will retain much much more information if you take handwritten notes in class and then re-write them a number of times into various formats such as outlines and notecards. It's a time-proven method. It beats all techno-gadgetry hands-down.

Eat up Martha by antagonizt · 2013-08-13 15:22 · Score: 1

Get yourself an Apple MessagePad!

Re:Evernote by shrimppesto · 2013-08-13 15:51 · Score: 1

I've been using Evernote and it is pretty rich for setting a base hierarchy. Then, you can set all manner of tags and search on them. But, you have to be diligent to make the system really work for you.

You also have to learn not to be over-diligent. As a recent MD graduate and now third-year resident, I've found that it's all too easy to fall into the trap of thinking, "I'm going to build a database that contains ALL MEDICAL KNOWLEDGE." That database already exists: it is called PubMed, it's huge and unwieldy, and your Evernote will be too if you try to include everything in it. Worst of all, in a few short years, it'll be out of date. Blast.

The nice thing about M1/M2 year of medical school is that the knowledge base you are expected to acquire is (or should be) fairly well-defined. So Evernote (or any of the other database approaches discussed here) will probably work fine for that purpose. But as you move forward into your clinical training, you may want to clean out your Evernote and start over again, being rather more selective about how you curate it.

Nowadays, my personal rule is never to put anything clinical into my Evernote unless I've had to look it up 3-4 times. By that point, I know it's useful enough to have around (in a more easily accessible fashion than, say, UpToDate), but not so useful that I've already memorized it out of necessity.

Class Notes vs. Study Notes by Sinesurfer · 2013-08-13 16:17 · Score: 1

I found that doing the pre-reading gives a rudimentary understanding of the topic so you know what to research. A summary explaining each point goes into your Study Notes with a longer explanation of points you didn't understand.

Your question related to Class Notes that are best notes on parts of topics you missed and a list of required research.

The type of information rich, linked document you want to create is more appropriate if you were lecturing on the subject matter.

Study Notes: The summary you review at the end of the year/term/semester
Class Notes: Explanation of parts of topics you don't understand and points to research on your own time.

At worst, always do the pre-reading so if you need to ask a question you can demonstrate *some* understanding of the underlying issues and briefly state either (1) the parts you *do* understand or (2) the leads you've researched that failed to resolve the question.

--
Regards Sinesurfer A Nerd is someone who lives for technology, A Geek is someone who lives for technology and loves it

Your choice by Phocas · 2013-08-13 16:24 · Score: 1

The first question is whether your notes are nearly all pure text or whether your notes include mathematical symbols, diagrams or pictures of some sort. If it's the latter, then your fastest, easiest, most flexible, lowest overhead input method is still pen and paper. If you go this route, get a good fountain pen and good quality paper. A fountain pen, unlike a ballpoint, can write with near-zero pressure, which means you can you can write for much longer before your hand starts to cramp up. That's a major advantage if you're sitting in classes taking notes for hours at a time. Good quality, inexpensive fountain pens include things like the Lamy Safari, Faber Castell Basic or Pilot Metropolitan. If you want to go up market a bit from there, I'd suggest having a look at the super-cool looking Namiki Falcon. Top quality paper means Clairefontaine or Rhodia (which are both owned by the same company). Leuchtturm is not quite as good, but still quite good and less expensive. The downside to pen and paper comes at the back end, in that you can't sort, search, copy and paste etc.

If you'd rather take notes on a laptop, then, like other commenters, I'd suggest Emacs Org Mode. Despite its intimidating reputation, learning the basics of Emacs is actually pretty easy and you need to know only a tiny percentage of the capabilities of Emacs in order to use Org mode. You can pick up those basics in 30 minutes and lots of people do useful work with Emacs without ever learning more than that. The upside is that Org Mode can do everything you describe, it's as customizable as any software you'll ever encounter and it stores everything in plain text mode that will always be accessible, not some proprietary binary format that will be unreadable if the software vendor ever goes out of business. Besides the initial learning curve, Org Mode (like any software) requires a bit more overhead effort on the front end compared to pen and paper, but you get your reward at the back end because you'll be able to search, sort, copy, paste, and slice and dice your notes however you like.

Personally, I'd go with Org Mode unless the nature of your notes (e.g. lots of pictures, flow charts etc.) makes keyboard input impractical. Even then you could consider Org Mode for the text plus pen and paper for the occasional picture/diagram, then scan the picture/diagram to pdf to include with your Org Mode notes later.

If you're interested in Emacs / Org Mode, then "Learning GNU Emacs" (3rd ed) is a bit old but still the best book out there on Emacs. Get that book plus download the Org Mode manual and maybe the latest Emacs manual from the FSF and that's all you'll need.

software is a distraction: use a pencil by umafuckit · 2013-08-14 00:35 · Score: 1

Getting through med school will require you memorise a lot of stuff. You need a system of note taking that promotes that. I didn't go to med school, but I did do a related degree. We did a lot of anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, etc. What worked for me was to write notes during the lecture with pen and paper. This is way more flexible and faster than messing around with tablet or laptop. Then, after the lecture, transcribe and make the notes neater and put into a binder for storage. Cross-reference with a textbook when producing the final copy of your notes to fill them out. This process cements the knowledge in your head because you *think* about what you learned. It really helps to make it stick. I found memorising my own notes was easier than memorising a text book.

--
soylentnews.org

laptop and text editor by dataspel · 2013-08-14 04:51 · Score: 1

Pen and paper is just not searchable enough. Use laptop and and a text editor, so you can search the text. I keep an online lab notebook, chock-full of how-tos, references, and other things I would otherwise have forgotten long ago. Going on 14 years now, it has been a lifesaver many times over. Would never give it up.

Re:Um...as a patient, I'm hoping you MEMORIZE it by level_headed_midwest · 2013-08-14 07:54 · Score: 1

Besides, about half of what you learn in your M1 year is obsolete by the time you graduate. Take notes with pen and paper, cram for the cram-and-dump trivia regurgitation test (which is what all med school tests are) and then throw away the notes after the test as they are useless and worthless. Anything that you really want to remember later can be found easily on UpToDate or a similar site and will be up to date instead of likely outdated.

--
Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.

Re:Um...as a patient, I'm hoping you MEMORIZE it by level_headed_midwest · 2013-08-14 07:58 · Score: 1

The point of the first two years of med school are to prepare you take Step 1 and to provide a reason for employment for some pretty useless PhDs. Let's not kid ourselves here.

--
Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.

Why take notes? by dostephen · 2013-08-14 08:41 · Score: 1

When I was in Medical school back in the early 80's we had a 2 lecture services that printed out the days lectures verbatim for every course. Also, an audio tape was available from the library. But the real answer to your question is how do you learn best, in detail. If you are still struggling with that this is going to be a rough year. Personally, and I'll admit I was considered odd for this, I never went to class. It just drained me because of all the distractions and the energy it took to take notes and listen at the same time. Also, almost ever professor misspoke about some fact in every lecture, and contrary to what one responder said about the value of the lectures, the tests were based on the facts in the textbooks. So what I did was to read the lectures to just see what was emphasized, then read the text book 2-3 times depending on what grade I was aiming for. In the first read of the lecture notes and textbook chapter I would stop on any concept or function I didn't really understand and access other resources if I need to, usually that was another classmate. I am a visual learner so my notes were marked up in 3 different colors with boxes, underlining, highlighting etc. That was the way I pared the massive amount of information down to the essential facts that had to be memorized. As I used to say to my classmates who asked how I could possibly pass without going to class "There is no shortage of data, only time to digest it". p.s. getting the old tests is a huge help. Best of luck.

Good lectures need fewer notes taken by RepliCounts · 2013-08-17 16:57 · Score: 1

The professor should organize the class so that most of what you might write down is already available online (or in handouts). Then you can take short notes on paper that help you organize and remember what you're learning.

Slashdot Mirror

Ask Slashdot: Best Software For Med-School Note-Taking?

142 of 217 comments (clear)