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Next Up: the Jamming Wars

chicksdaddy writes "ITWorld has an interesting opinion piece on the next privacy battleground, which they say will be over citizens' rights to use jamming technology to (forcibly) opt-out of ubiquitous surveillance, as sensors pop up in more and more public spaces and private homes alike. 'Given the rapid pace of technological change, we don't know exactly what the future holds for us. But one thing is certain: personal privacy is going to turn from a "right" to a "fight" in the next decade, as individuals take up arms against government and private sector snooping on their personal lives.' The article mentions some skirmishes that have already occurred: employees using GPS jamming hardware to prevent employers from tracking their every movement, and the crush of new business for encrypted voice, video and texting services like SilentCircle (up 400% in the last two months). 'Absent the protection of the law, citizens should be expected to do what they do elsewhere: take matters into their own hands: latching onto tools and technology to give them the privacy that they aren't afforded by the legal system. However, there may not be an easy technology fix for ubiquitous, unregulated surveillance. Writing in Wired this week, Jathan Sadowski warns that the tendency for individuals to focus on securing their own data and communications and using technology to do may be misleading. 'The problem is that focusing on one or both of these approaches distracts from the much-needed political reform and societal pushback necessary to dig up a surveillance state at its root,' Sadowski writes."

39 of 209 comments (clear)

  1. Easy solution by girlintraining · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Modern cameras are easy to detect and destroy without leaving any physical evidence. All you need is something capable of sending out a pulse of near-infrared light and then looking for the highest return signal. Visible light will work too, but since we're being sneaky and all. All digital reflect light in the same direction as it is received; an optical quality not found naturally.

    Just shoot a high power laser on a very short duration wherever this quality is found, and you'll burn out the CCD of any nearby digital camera. Be warned however; while this won't happen to humans, animals like cats have eyes which produce similar effect. Make sure you aren't using such a device indiscriminately. As well, the headlights of newer cars also exhibit this quality... so you should manually aim such a device towards a likely camera and then let the optics get a precise fix on the CCD.

    No need to jam... fire once, move on. You can even do it from miles away, where you're not even a single pixel in the frame. All that'll be recorded is a bright flash of multicolored or white light, followed by camera death.

    --
    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    1. Re:Easy solution by dougmc · · Score: 4, Informative

      Modern cameras are easy to detect and destroy without leaving any physical evidence. All you need is something capable of sending out a pulse of near-infrared light and then looking for the highest return signal. Visible light will work too, but since we're being sneaky and all. All digital reflect light in the same direction as it is received; an optical quality not found naturally.

      Um, are you trying to say that digital cameras are retroreflectors? If so, they are not.

      Now, it's possible that the sensor is -- though I've seen no evidence of this -- but don't forget that the sensor is generally behind some lenses and possibly a shutter.

      I do recall a system being deployed in movie theaters designed to prevent filming of the movie with IR signals, but this doesn't require that a digital camera be retroreflective -- instead it just relies on the fact that digital cameras are sensitive to IR and our eyes are not. Using such a device it would be pretty easy to make pictures taken not come out (as long as the IR source was very close to what you're trying to protect) but it won't damage your camera unless it's so incredibly powerful that it's uncomfortable for humans to be near.

      an optical quality not found naturally.

      Um, yes it is. You mentioned cat's eyes already, but there are other things that exhibit this property naturally as well.

      Just shoot a high power laser on a very short duration wherever this quality is found, and you'll burn out the CCD of any nearby digital camera. Be warned however; while this won't happen to humans, animals like cats have eyes which produce similar effect.

      Yes, cats have retroreflective eyes.

      But any laser strong enough to damage a camera CCD (especially through a closed shutter, or a camera not even pointed at the laser) will also damage human eyes. And cat eyes, though the retroreflective property isn't why.

      I don't know where you're getting your information, but you seem to have misunderstood much of it.

    2. Re:Easy solution by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Lasers strong enough to damage a CCD are not legal to own in many places. Weaker lasers blind cameras, but this can easily be overcome with a colour filter applied digitally to the recording. In short lasers are not very good against cameras.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:Easy solution by girlintraining · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yeah, people never get red-eye in photos.

      Sigh. Red eye is caused by the ABSORPTION of light, not the REFLECTION of light. A retroflector is what is in a CCD, and in a cat's eye. example of red eye example of cat eye. Note the difference.

      Today's classroom science explanation brought to you by Jah-Wren Ryei, the idiot moderator who +1'd someone talking out of their ass, and wikipedia. Stay tuned for more exciting science later in this thread, where we'll go in detail to explore the behind the scenes technology that makes camera 'jamming' a reality, and why for some strange reason only people who have read books on optics can understand... it doesn't detect and blind human eyes.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    4. Re:Easy solution by Rhacman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, he's describing how to build devices to intentionally destroy public and private property as well as the vision of certain animals. He asserts that one can trust that they are nearly impervious to prosecution due to a presumed lack of necessary evidence to obtain a conviction. He assures us that due to the technique he is proposing that these likely hobbyist quality devices will not inadvertently blind any human beings because his detector will not trigger in such cases.

      --
      Account -> Discussions -> Disable Sigs
    5. Re:Easy solution by Jherek+Carnelian · · Score: 5, Informative

      Just shoot a high power laser on a very short duration wherever this quality is found, and you'll burn out the CCD of any nearby digital camera

      As someone who has directly shined a 300mw laser directly into a security camera for about 30 seconds from less than 10 feet away, I am going to call bullshit because it didn't damage the camera at all. It did bind it while the laser was on it, but that was it.

      300mw isn't the highest power laser there is by a long shot, but it is already way above the 5mw limit considered safe, but even lasers have beam spread such that shining a multi-watt laser from "miles away" is going to massively reduce the energy density.

  2. Re:When Paintball Guns are Outlawed... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Worse - you don't bring a paintball gun to a tactical nuclear weapons fight. Sure, us little guys can buy gizmos and change habits but if you have the power of any major government after your ass, you're toast. Even sophisticated people like Laura Poitras are hassled to the point of having to leave the country.

    Unless you've got some major new technology that can defeat the status quo, the only answer is to fight them at the ballot box.

    Goodluckwiththat.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  3. I'm Having Trouble with the Radar Sir by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Raspberry. There's only one man who would dare give me the raspberry: Lone Star!

  4. LIcense Plate Scanners by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This one is only good for those cameras that use a flash:

    http://www.nophoto.com/

    I'm thinking it might be possible to build a "clear" overlay with a bunch of infra-red LEDs built in in a pattern that is invisible to the naked eye but fuzzes the numbers for any camera that sees in the infra-red (most of them). Put that over your plate and run it all the time, even when the car is parked anywhere except in your garage.

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    1. Re:LIcense Plate Scanners by bmo · · Score: 2

      >Just get a license plate consisting of a mix of 1, I, L, D, O, 0

      How well can I sneak a vanity license plate request through the receptionist at the Registry that says "D1LD0?"

      What if I say it's a town in Canada?

      --
      BMO

    2. Re:LIcense Plate Scanners by Entropius · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It'd be easier if citizens, fed up with them, just spraypainted over their apertures.

      There is spray paint covering half of Baltimore. Why not just add a little more?

    3. Re:LIcense Plate Scanners by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I cannot imagine how people think deliberately obscuring your license plate could ever possibly be legal.

      Because it isn't obscured - to humans. The law doesn't say it needs to be readable by machines.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    4. Re:LIcense Plate Scanners by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This one is only good for those cameras that use a flash:

      The ones that take your photo when you break the speed limit? If only there was some other way to avoid getting your photo taken by those...

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    5. Re:LIcense Plate Scanners by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 5, Informative

      http://science.slashdot.org/story/07/04/23/2218246/busting-the-mythbusters-yawn-experiment

      You really shouldn't use pseudo-science performed by special effects artists as a reference.

      Why not? Unlike the badly done yawn experiment, the license plate experiment was done by testing license plate cameras with a wide range of products, including the one the parent mentioned. The camera had no problem capturing the plate (much to my surprise, for that's the one product I thought would work).

      Any time the result can be proven in such a manner, where the products are tested plus the claims on why the products are supposed to work are debunked, I'd trust the results. Whenever they start "testing" with too many variables, the bad science is pretty obvious, and using it as a reference is just silly.

      If Mythbusters was known to fake results, that'd be one thing... as it is, they just often have faulty tests (and then get plenty of feedback on what they did wrong). That's the scientific method at work -- you just have to supply your own critical thinking.

    6. Re:LIcense Plate Scanners by tlhIngan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You really shouldn't use pseudo-science performed by special effects artists as a reference.

      You realize that it isn't pseudoscience, right? It's true science. The article you linked didn't even dispute that. It disputed the analysis of the results and thus its conclusions, but otherwise it was a sound experiment.

      Pseudoscience relies on something that is impossible to replicate - like say, creationism (intelligent design - though there was evolution from creationism to intelligent design - they found a transition fossil in the documentation). Or ESP.

      Just because it's on TV doesn't automatically make it "bad" - they follow the scientific method (hypothesis, experimentation, analysis, conclusions) and people are free to reproduce the experiments. The only caveat is "don't try this at home" because replication can require special knowledge. But they lay bare the steps they took and their data.

      And yes, science does come up (often) with errors in procedure, errors in analysis, and errors in conclusion. Even in regular scientific studies.

      Is it sensationalized? Of course. It's a TV show, one that's fighting for eyeballs and ad money like everything else. But to dismiss it does a real disservice to everyone to whom thinks "science is hard and boring".

      If you think speed cameras are easy to defeat, then repeat their experiment. You can choose to use their equipment or someone else's (remember part of the conclusion is to determine why your results differ, and it could be equipment used - has happened many times before).

      In general, those sprays are worthless, though. And plastic holographic covers are easy to tell because they usually easily obscure your license place at ground level (i.e., if it works for the camera, the cops will easily notice it too and fine you for obscuring your plate).

      Also, in general, jammers and such are easily detected - if you're trying to prevent your face from being imaged, then you'll either wear IR glasses or funny facepaint, in which case people remember you as the "guy with the funny glasses or funny makeup". Try to look more normal and boring, and people forget you the moment you pass them.

      Same goes for jammers and such - a jammer is a transmitter and those are trivially easy to spot.

      Part of evading surveillance is trying to not stand out. Making your emails encrypted, wearing odd clothes or accessories, funny makeup, transmitters all call attention to yourself and bring MORE surveillance on you. Being absolutely boring and looking like everyone else and not sticking out? Well now, you've just made it a lot harder because you look, act, and behave like everyone else and is completely forgettable.

    7. Re:LIcense Plate Scanners by SJ · · Score: 2

      The only problem there is that it won't be long before those cameras start taking photos of everyone, regardless of speed. That data, along with everything else, can then be used to track you.

      It's just a side-effect that they can make some extra coin from those people that are speeding.

    8. Re:LIcense Plate Scanners by bobbied · · Score: 2

      I think you seriously underestimate the ability of the average person to accurately judge their ability to drive their cars. Most people don't know how bad they really are at driving, and I'm sure you are no exception. The morons will *always* be out there doing stupid things with their cars right in front of you or driving too fast behind you, speed limits or not.

      This less guns leads to less death idea is not supported by the facts. In the town I live in, we are one of the 10 lowest violent crime locations in the country and we have conceal carry permits, multiple shooting ranges and folks carrying guns around all the time. Go to Chicago, where guns are illegal, and folks are dropping like flies from high speed lead poisoning just walking down the street. I live really close to Dallas too, which isn't all that more dangerous, despite Texans affinity for firearms. I likely can't prove it to you, but more guns in the right hands would be a good for saving lives.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    9. Re:LIcense Plate Scanners by drkim · · Score: 2

      The law doesn't say it needs to be readable by machines.

      Yeah, except for, like, this part:

      V C Section 52017 6(c) A casing, shield, frame, border, product, or other device that obstructs or impairs the reading or recognition of a license plate by an electronic device operated by state or local law enforcement, an electronic device operated in connection with a toll road, high-occupancy toll lane, toll bridge, or other toll facility, or a remote emission sensing device, as specified in Sections 44081 and 44081.6 of the Health and Safety Code, shall not be installed on, or affixed to, a vehicle.

      (Your state may vary...)

  5. He's foolish. by Oligonicella · · Score: 2

    It's not a zero-sum game. One can do what one can *now* to protect one's self AND work to create the proper safeguards.

    1. Re:He's foolish. by flayzernax · · Score: 2

      Were a long ways off from needing to jam... But seriously there are much better solutions to being spied on. Jamming is a bad one, and last resort. I would reserve only for a war zone. It's far to disruptive to legitimate communication and does more harm than simply switching modes of communication. (Wireless to wired, mail to in person).

  6. Re:When Paintball Guns are Outlawed... by DougOtto · · Score: 5, Funny

    What we really need is the right to arm bears.

    --
    Solving Unix problems since 1989...
  7. As a wise man once said by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Ooh, yeah! All right!
    We're jammin':
    I wanna jam it wid you.
    We're jammin', jammin',
    And I hope you like jammin', too.

    Ain't no rules, ain't no vow, we can do it anyhow:
    I'n'I will see you through,
    'Cos everyday we pay the price with a little sacrifice,
    Jammin' till the jam is through.

    We don't need the NSA
    To record the things we say
    Or the things we dooooo

    No matter how we try
    we're surounded by Wi-Fi
    transmissions tooooooo

    Now dey watch us wid their drones
    and their trackin our cell phones
    I guess we scroooooooed

    No bullet can stop us now, we neither beg nor we won't bow;
    Info can be bought nor sold.
    We all defend the right; Jah - Jah children must unite:
    Your life is worth much more than gold.

     

  8. Re:When Paintball Guns are Outlawed... by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Exactly. The right to bear arms didn't do Edward Snowden or Bradley Manning a fat lot of good either.

    Manning gave up that right when he enlisted. He traded it for the responsibility to bear arms.

    But this brings up an interesting point: encryption tech is still (although not as much as it used to be) treated as munitions by the US government. As such, does the right to properly encrypted data fall under the right to bear arms? Or is the US interpreting the constitution these days to say you can bear as many arms as you want, but munitions are off-limits?

  9. GPS jamming near an airport by Misch · · Score: 2

    Interestingly enough, there was a guy who was recently busted for putting a GPS jammer on his truck. It was discovered when he drove near an airport and impacted the testing of GPS-enhanced plane landing equipment.

    Source.

    The person was fined $32,000 and was fired by the company he was working for.

    --

    --You will rephrase your request for me to go to hell. Goto statements are not acceptable programming constructs
    1. Re:GPS jamming near an airport by bobbied · · Score: 2

      And rightly so. Running around jamming GPS signals is a *serious* problem for a lot of things these days. Fines from the FCC *should* be quickly metered out for such foolishness. Glad to see that they are.

      Trying to hide one's location from your employer when on duty is possibly a bad idea too. One would assume that the employer had a valid interest in knowing where their equipment was and had installed the GPS based equipment for that purpose. The driver's attempts to mask his location was inexcusable and leads to a whole lot of "so where where you exactly?" questions that he likely could not answer truthfully and keep his job. Return all company equipment, fired with cause, no unemployment, don't pass go, don't collect $200, we will mail your last check and don't let he door hit you on the way out.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  10. jamming tech wont be allowed by wierd_w · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The whole "personal jammer" thing is a non-starter. Jammers are indescriminate, and the usual rhetoric used to make them illegal will apply.

    Take for instance, with personal cellphone jammers. They are illegal in the united states, specifically cited by the FCC. The reason, is that they disrupt vital comminications infrastructure, and can therefor prevent expedient deployment of emergency services, an other vital services that rely on the availability of that communication medium.

    In the case of the surveylance industry, the argument can be made that cameras make the community safer, by helping law enforcement to identify and rapidly locate dangerous criminals, and that disrupting this system places the community at greater risk.

    Those are totally specious arguments in most of the applied settings they would be used in, but that doesn't matter. Think of it as a horrible cousin to the "think of the children!" Rhetoric. Or, maybe the "interstate commerce" doctrine.

    Personal jamming tech is a nonstarter for legal defense against ubiquitous tracking and surveylence.

    About the only thing left, then, is relentless use of it anyway, as a dedicated civil disobedience movement. Yes, that means pleading guilty to the charge in court when arrested, as per the proper use of civil disobedience as a tactic. You want to swamp the justice system with burdensome numbers of people to incarcerate, with a near 100% recidivism rate.

    It has to cost them far more money than their corporate puppeteers make from the mandatory protection and employment of the surveylence. It has to do this consistently, and without fail.

    Otherwise, there will always be the profit motive, and the corruption that money has on government, and the surveylence state will persist.

    1. Re:jamming tech wont be allowed by bobbied · · Score: 2

      Jamming RF communications is simply illegal and needs to be. The FCC takes a pretty dim view of the average citizen just deciding to disrupt licensed radio services for *any* reason they choose and this is how it SHOULD be. The FCC has authority over anything that puts off RF energy, either on purpose or incidentally and can (and will) require you to turn off equipment that is interfering with RF communications. If you don't obey, or they figure you are jamming on purpose, they can fine you, confiscate your equipment or otherwise get you off the air.

      Sitting in a movie theater jamming cell phone service to keep folks from getting calls during your movie may sound like a good idea, but the problem is you just cannot know how far your jamming signal is going. As others have pointed out, jamming signals are pretty much the equivalent of putting a flashing light on the thing you are trying to protect, and makes it easy to find with very little problem. All you need is an antenna, A way to attenuate the signal and a receiver and you can find a hidden transmitter in fairly short order. Add a directional antenna and it gets even faster.

      Don't be stupid... Leave the jamming equipment at home with your IR Camera killers and flashing device that changes red lights to green.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:jamming tech wont be allowed by wierd_w · · Score: 2

      I realize that there is a disproportionate number of person on slashdot that give exceptional levels of percieved value to the "correct" employment of language, structure, and punctuation; however, the purpose of language is to convey information and ideas. The purpose of spelling, grammatical, and syntax rules is to fascilitate that objective. Obcessive fixation over the use or lack of use of minutia relating to those aspects of communication, to the point where it causes a deficit in effective communication, is self defeating and irrational.

      If you difficulty in comprehending what I had written, such as if I had used ambiguous kanguage that could potentially have many and possibly conflictory meanings, you would have a legitimate complaint. However, the spelling of a word that you clearly were able to interpret correctly, desite the misspelling, is not sufficient grounds to make such a complaint. You did not have any difficulty in comprehending what was written. You may wish for me to use more widely established spellings in the future, and you may well ask that I do so, but fixation on the misspelling to the point where you refuse to engage in the communication process over the incongruity, such as your statement directly indicates, is simply incompatible with the objective goal of communication. Communication exists to transmit ideas. Rules and syntax exist to facilitiate that exchange. Nothing more. They do not exist as a metric by which to judge the merit of the information exchanged, and any attempt to do so is a misuse of that feature.

      No. It does not matter how convienient a metric it may be percieved to be. If you are going to be riggorous about the mechanics of linguistic exchange, then don't be hipocritical about it by bastardizing the rules yourself.

    3. Re:jamming tech wont be allowed by wierd_w · · Score: 2

      This is a classic application of the prisoner's dillema.

      Both prisoners stand to gain the best possible outcome for both involved, by not assisting the authorities in investigating them. The authorities incentivize both prisoners in secret, to rat out the other. If one rats, he gets a reduced sentence, and the other gets prosecuted more viggorously, by being charged with more crimes. If neither prisoner rats, the authorities have to drop the major part of the case, and give both prisoners reduced sentences. If the prisoners both rat each other out, both will do hard time.

      In this case, we are the prisoners. Choosing to capitulate with the obtrusive video monitoring by our state and corporate officials, is ratting each other out. Collectively engaging in riggorous disobedience is refusal to comply with the demand to rat each other out.

      If more people disobey than capitulate, the penalties associated with disobedience cannot be sensibly enforced; there simply wouldn't be any employees left, even if they went full on H1B. Thus, your argument that "those of us with jobs to lose " should, and would rat everyone else out, only shows you are willfully complicit, and will end up servicing the panopticon. Willingly.

      In reality, you have more to gain by encouraging everyone to disobey, because it makes it impossible to enforce punishment for the crime, AND it disrupts the power grab of the panopticon.

      But don't let little things like that influence your fear based decision making.

  11. Our fault by wbr1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We have been blithely feeding bits of our privacy to corporations for years. Neilsen, survey companies, members discount store cards, google, facebook, mobile phone providers. The list goes on and on. The data is there and we GIVE it away for things we ostensibly want.

    Is it any surprise now that the government wants the same and more? Google is an advertising company. They have show how much can be made in this way, and the data that can be gathered. They give us the tools that we need in order to be able to better serve their customers. Government is supposed to protect the people, and as is often the case, has taken it to far. The individual NSA analyst may think he is doing a greater good sifting through your 'metadata' and believe it whole-heartedly. However he is really just feeding the military-data complex, which is simply an offshoot of the military-industrial complex. It is tied up with money galore, corporate greed and self interest, and kickbacks and graft, um I mean campaign donations, to grease up the politicians who feed it to us if they don't buy it for free

    This thing has inertia, it is armed, and comes with more power than even a large group of 'regular' joes can easily fight. Especially since most of the country is apathetic and/or splintered of bullshit issues like gay marriage. This has been a long time coming, and people have fought, but they get swept up and under by the machine. People like Manning, Snowden, Assange, they are doing the things that Patrick Henry and Ben Franklin would likely be proud of. They have stood up against a government that enables people to steal away little by little the wealth that this country and its people generate. They have stood up to say, no, this is not what america is supposed to be. And whether you agree with their methods or motivations, have you stood up? Have I? Or have we both sat down to watch the Cowboys game again?

    Unfortunately it will end one of two ways that I see. The continuing downhill slide until finally comes to a bloody crash, or a bloody crash now. And by bloody, I mean bloody. And after? Brave words will be said, changes may be made, some deep some superficial, but sooner or later those near the top will realize...

    "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
  12. Flooding by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

    An app that randomly broadcast packets with new mac addresses constantly would be quite effective at flooding databases with crap and hiding the individual.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  13. Oh my by Temtongkek · · Score: 2

    How has no one quoted Spaceballs yet? Slashdot, you're upsetting me.

  14. If it was good enough for Maxwell Smart . . . by reboot246 · · Score: 2

    I'm going to be using the Cone of Silence.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_of_Silence/

  15. Re: What we really need is the right to arm bears by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Trust me. As a hunter, I know: Bears are very well armed. As a matter of fact, unless a man is well armed in a match up with a bear, the man will lose.

    Just sayin'...

  16. Re:When Paintball Guns are Outlawed... by slick7 · · Score: 3

    Unless you've got some major new technology that can defeat the status quo.

    Asymmetric warfare, you keep your energy hogging jammers and I'll hide out in my Tora Bora (patent pending) Faraday cage. Try and find me suckers.

    --
    The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
  17. Re:When Paintball Guns are Outlawed... by msauve · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ref: The Company Store. Really, it's not much different than the gov't. We get paid in scrip (fiat currency), don't actually own real property (eminent domain, property taxes), can't even subsist apart from gov't, which forces participation in the government economy (property taxes, again).

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  18. Re:When Paintball Guns are Outlawed... by Dare+nMc · · Score: 2

    Not like either of them tried that I know of. I know that after Dorner was the most wanted person in the USA, full resources out to get a single man on the run, with a gun in the city. While he did get killed, but I think he killed 2 police before becoming the most wanted, and shot like 5 more police (killing 3 of them) before getting burned to the ground in a cabin. So if 1 trained person, after Police only, with gun kills 5:1; guns are certainly capable of increasing the impact of your change. He didn't have near the dirt of Snowden or Manning, but he certainly got the info he had out with the help of the gun, that he wasn't able to do after first trying without the gun.

  19. Re:When Paintball Guns are Outlawed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The voting machines don't need to be rigged.

    The candidates are rigged. The political parties are rigged. Congress is rigged. The judiciary is rigged.

    No matter who you vote for, you're voting for servants of the corporate oligarchy.

  20. Re:Kneejerk reaction ... by some+old+guy · · Score: 2

    Because the ballot box, particularly for offices that have any real sway in the debate, is being effectively neutered by the system that controls it.

    The corporate plutarchs and their mass-media entertainment industry shills are doing a masterful job of manipulating public behavior, to the extent that no dissident element has any possibility of making an electoral impact. Money always wins. Always.

    Conclusion?

    Short of a complete societal and economic collapse with a subsequent rethinking of governing structures, we're hopelessly fucked.

    --
    Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.