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Notch Shelves Space Game 0x10c, Cites Pressure, Desire To Work On Small Projects

Sockatume writes "Marcus 'Notch' Persson of Minecraft fame has indefinitely postponed his planned space game, 0x10c. Taking time to chat during a streamed TF2 game, Notch explained that he didn't have the energy to keep up with the community's interest; fans had gone so far as to transcribe the source code from his development livestream. The game's development had been stalled since April this year, when Notch explained that it simply wasn't fun to play, but other staff at Mojang can resume the project if they wish. He intends to continue his pre-Minecraft habits and 'make small games and talk to other game developers about them'."

178 comments

  1. ever going to finish anything Notch? by X0563511 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    minecraft - hands off in alpha
    0x10c, hands-off in planning phase

    It would be nice to see you see something through.

    --
    For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    1. Re:ever going to finish anything Notch? by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 1

      If we consider Notch as a game designer, he doesn't have to finish the implementation to have done he job well. How was Minecraft harmed by his going hands off while it was in alpha? Do we really expect his next project to be as successful as the Minecraft phenomenon?

      --
      You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
    2. Re:ever going to finish anything Notch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fair enough. Care to post some links to your apparently voluminous portfolio?

    3. Re:ever going to finish anything Notch? by localman · · Score: 2

      After we're done with this thread, we should take Shigeru Miyamoto to task for getting other people to finish his games too.

    4. Re:ever going to finish anything Notch? by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      No, we should slap Nintendo silly for ever letting Shiggy near a controller design team. Blame him for that absolute piece of crap that is the N64 controller.

      Nintendo also needs to have someone, say an Anglophone, stand around Shiggy and say "No." to his stupider design ideas since apparently the Japanese game development community has no one to tell them NO.

      Navi? NO

      Tingle NO.

      Not providing any sort of in-game hints to specific features (the white block trick in SMB3). NO.

    5. Re:ever going to finish anything Notch? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Is this a crossover from the game devs getting abuse from fans topic?

    6. Re:ever going to finish anything Notch? by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Nah, I would have snuck in a death threat if it was.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
  2. Not a big deal. Well, except the community part. by Seumas · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's cool that he is handing it off to the community, but other than that -- there isn't much of a story here. Developers -- especially game developers -- prototype ideas and work on them for months all the time. Ultimately, they often result in nothing. Things don't work. Technology isn't there yet. The userbase shows no interest. Or, probably most often, the developer just loses their passion for that project/prototype and moves on to something else. Notch could go through twenty of these before he finally lands on something that he feels passionate about for the long-haul.

  3. He doesn't have to do squat. by Neo-Rio-101 · · Score: 1

    Given that he's made his millions doing Minecraft - it's quite possible for him to do whatever the hell he wants on his own schedule and not give a flying pig's bum about getting anything finished. ...more time to work on that minecraft sculpture of a giant (CENSORED)

    --
    READY.
    PRINT ""+-0
    1. Re:He doesn't have to do squat. by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      well.. we're going to get the new elite anyways.

      honestly, I didn't think many ideas in this new game were going to work anyways, least the bits I saw discussed.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    2. Re:He doesn't have to do squat. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > more time to work on that minecraft sculpture of a giant (CENSORED)

      We get it. You watched Zero Punctation's hilarious review of Minecraft:
      http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/2680-Minecraft

      Notch just wants to build his gold statue cock and balls. :-)

      ~UnknownSoldier

    3. Re:He doesn't have to do squat. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty sure it's been done already. Many times. With trees for hairy balls and tip spewing magma.

  4. Have you done more or better? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Be nice to see you accomplish a fraction of what he has ("big talker/armchair qb" that you are by comparison).

    1. Re:Have you done more or better? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your projecting reaction to this tells all (truth hurts) http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4105673&cid=44606965

    2. Re:Have you done more or better? by X0563511 · · Score: 1, Informative

      I don't publicize what I can't finish. I don't take money for a product that I'll never finish.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    3. Re:Have you done more or better? by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      When I take money for something, I can be expected to finish it!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:Have you done more or better? by fredprado · · Score: 1

      Nothing is ever "finished". That said Minecraft is finished enough to have a huge fan base, and enough people content with it and willing to pay for it as it is.

    5. Re:Have you done more or better? by localman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > I don't publicize what I can't finish.

      It's a really good thing the open source software movement did not abide by this thinking.

    6. Re:Have you done more or better? by CronoCloud · · Score: 2

      There's plenty of open source software that is far more "finished" than Minecraft, though the flaws of Minecraft and it's development do remind me of open-source software. You know how it is, some visionary starts a project and quits before it's done because starting something new is more "fun" than actually quashing bugs, and finishing and polishing a project.

    7. Re:Have you done more or better? by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      IMHO Minecraft, in it's current state, isn't worth $27. I also believe Mojang shouldn't be charging for what is essentially a Beta.

      I did a blog post about Minecraft recently, on my Second Life centric blog, I only started playing it last year:

      http://ccslfashionista.blogspot.com/2013/08/a-critical-review-of-minecraft.html

    8. Re:Have you done more or better? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Armchair qb's can't sell what they don't make, much less finish it.

    9. Re:Have you done more or better? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is Minecraft, in its current state, worth if you were to value it on a per-hours-played basis?

    10. Re:Have you done more or better? by CronoCloud · · Score: 2

      The problem is, that Minecraft can feel more like work, than a game. Sure you can spend a lot of time playing...but it's because of the bad design decisions. Think about the chunks... if you travel a bit, you can come back to find your farm at the state you left it in because Notch didn't think of keeping track of time and updating crops growing when you return to the chunk.

      That's one of the reasons the multiplayer is popular, because the game is so time consuming that more people helps with the "work".

      You also basically have to use the wiki to play, there is no in-game information. And don't tell me the fun is finding the stuff out....nobody does that not even the people who work on the wiki...they source-dive to find that stuff out.

    11. Re:Have you done more or better? by Bucky24 · · Score: 1

      What is Minecraft, in its current state, worth if you were to value it on a per-hours-played basis?

      I'm pretty sure I'd be bankrupt... I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be alone.

      --
      All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
    12. Re:Have you done more or better? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That didn't answer the question.

    13. Re:Have you done more or better? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I have. But the actual point I was trying to make is that nobody pays me for a half finished product. And the current trend to sell games that are in perpetual alpha, or if we're being generous, beta stage for years with no "final" even on the horizon is somehow worrying. In the past we did get a few games that worked out in the long run. But the amount of vaporware that gets sold with little to no progress for months is going to kill that "kickstart" movement. Right now, people eagerly buy into the chance to be in a game "early on", to see it develop and grow. If games go stale before they are finished, and if that repeats too many times, the whole system will crumble. People do enjoy being early in a game and play a beta when they see development, but they do NOT enjoy paying for a beta with the promise to get a better version "really soon now", only to never receive anything better.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    14. Re:Have you done more or better? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That blog is funny.

      "I spawned in, saw some trees and tried to harvest them. I kept failing and was wondering why...then I found out you have to hold the mouse button, not tap it. By that time it was late in game, monsters spawned and I died."

      Really? The 'day' part of a MineCraft day is 10 minutes long. It took you longer than 10 minutes to figure out you had to hold the mouse button down???

      "After I died and figured out how to collect wood I did some Googling on how to do stuff in Minecraft and here's a paraphrasing of some info I found that was supposedly aimed at newbies:

      You need to protect your home from mobs, you should set up traps using redstone, pressure plates and pistons to dump mobs approaching your door into lava."

      Um, NO- that wasn't aimed at newbs. And the very fact you thought it was is laughable. Try the MineCraft wiki, which I know you know exists, because you mentioned it. There's a whole section for newbs: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Tutorials#Newcomers that has simple advice like the default keys for movement and actions, including "Click and hold the left mouse button to break down (or mine) blocks. This is how you collect resources from the environment. Rapid clicking does not work, even though it may seem to."

      So... basically the guy's an idiot.

      "Here's other things I seriously don't like about Minecraft:
      While there is an in-game map, it's an item you have to craft and requires redstone to craft. "

      Um, not quite. A map needs paper and a compass. (Makes sense). The compass needs a single piece of redstone dust.
      And what's the point, anyway?

      "You actually have to hold it in your hand to have it update and use it"

      The Horror!!!!

      "Melon seeds, used to grow melons to make healing potions, are only obtainable in chests....in strongholds."

      Nope- they are in Abandoned Mineshafts, not strongholds. Oh, and some villagers have them for trade, too. Did this guy actually play the game?

      exploring beyond your bases range basically means setting up NEW full bases every so often

      Nope- many players pack light and keep moving. A temporary 'base' (literally a hole in the ground) can be used if you need a rest, or the mobs get to be too much.

      The increased Skeleton fire rate and knockback effect was designed specifically to appease the "hardcore" who were complaining that the game was too easy...at the expense of everyone else

      So play on peaceful. Or actually learn how to fight skellies (back around a corner, make them come to you, slice them up with your sword). the wiki will help with that, too: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Tutorials/Combat#Skeleton

      The recent change in how health regeneration works was done for the same reason, and punishes new players.

      I think he means that regaining health 'uses' some of your 'hunger' bar. Which is completely logical and consistent, so i don't know why he's bitching. He can play in Creative if he doesn't want hunger, and Peaceful if he wants regen.

      Thanks to Regional Difficulty and changes to Zombie spawning, you can lose the first village you find to Zombie infestation

      Yup. Unless you're smart enough to simply block their doors so the zombies can't get to them. Which I guess he's not.

      Not only that, but even FINDING a village is extremely hard

      Um... walking around a plains biome is not 'hard'. Nor is walking around a desert.

      The Random Number Generator can simply screw a new player by dumping him in certain zones, like Taiga.

      That's not 'being screwed'. Some people LIKE the Taiga biome. If you don't, too bad.

      In short- he gets basic facts about the game wrong, so why should I listen to him??

    15. Re:Have you done more or better? by CronoCloud · · Score: 0

      Next time, use the damn quote tags, that's what they're for. And it's MY blog and my post.

      Really? The 'day' part of a MineCraft day is 10 minutes long. It took you longer than 10 minutes to figure out you had to hold the mouse button down???

      Perhaps someone was just wandering around and looking, not knowing how long the day was because...you know, they were a NEW player? Or perhaps they were looking for a good flat open spot to build a dirt hut. Or a million other reasons for someone to not play Minecraft "perfectly" like the goddamned a "Stop Having Fun Because we want it to be harder" hardcore Minecrafters the FIRST time they booted it up.

      Um, NO- that wasn't aimed at newbs. And the very fact you thought it was is laughable.

      Actually it was, paraphrased from blog posts for supposed "noobs". I found blog posts and the forums before the wiki. Did you ever think that might happen?

      Try the MineCraft wiki, which I know you know exists, because you mentioned it.

      Yes, I know... But that information should be available in the game. Why not have a tutorial? In fact, the Xbox version DOES have a tutorial, that Mojang seems unable to put into the PC version.

      There's a whole section for newbs: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Tutorials#Newcomers that has simple advice like the default keys for movement and actions, including "Click and hold the left mouse button to break down (or mine) blocks. This is how you collect resources from the environment. Rapid clicking does not work, even though it may seem to."

      That should be the first thing a new player sees in the game! They shouldn't have to go to an outside source, that's a cop-out by lazy developers.

      So... basically the guy's an idiot.

      Yeah? You're the guy who can't figure out that people might start playing it differently because they might not know things already.

      Um, not quite. A map needs paper and a compass. (Makes sense). The compass needs a single piece of redstone dust.
      And what's the point, anyway?

      Because in other modern games the map is built in from the start. In some games it's right there on the main screen! Yes, having to craft a map is realistic... but it's a world with exploding creepers, skeletons on spiders....too much realism is a bad thing. The fact that you actually have to make multiple maps because they have limits is even worse. It's 2013... I do NOT want to have to go back to the dark ages of game mapping especially in a 3D game.

      The Horror!!!!

      Because Modern games have these things called mini-maps which means I can actually play the game while using them because the reality of RL map use isn't a fun gameplay mechanic. Maps work the way they do in Minecraft because of "Stop Having Fun Guys" who want everything to be "hardcore"

      And while I can mod minecraft to have one, it should be built in (though with the ability to not use it if one wants to be hardcore)
      Modding also is something for the hardcore, not the millioins of Grandma's that supposedly bought the game.

      Nope- they are in Abandoned Mineshafts, not strongholds. Oh, and some villagers have them for trade, too. Did this guy actually play the game?

      Ooh, getting a tiny detail wrong means I didn't play the game? Don't be a jerk.

      Nope- many players pack light and keep moving.

      If by many you mean the "The game needs be more difficult, it's too easy" guys on the Minecraft forum, then yes.

      So play on peaceful. I think he means that regaining health 'uses' some of your 'hunger' bar. Which is completely logical and consistent, so i don't know why he's bitching. He can play in Creative if he doesn't want hunger, and Peaceful i

    16. Re:Have you done more or better? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps someone was just wandering around and looking, not knowing how long the day was because...you know, they were a NEW player?

      Perhaps someone is not familiar with the fact that the sun moves across the sky in Minecraft, just like real life? Hint: how quickly the sun moves can be used to calculate the length of the day!

      Or perhaps they were looking for a good flat open spot to build a dirt hut.

      Punch a few trees, and once the leaves decay... theres your flat open spot.

      I found blog posts and the forums before the wiki. Did you ever think that might happen?

      Not really. One of the first things I do when starting into a new topic is search for the wiki. And, indeed, Googling 'Minecraft wiki' takes you to... the Minecraft wiki.

      that information should be available in the game. Why not have a tutorial?

      Because Minecraft is at its core a sandbox game. Do you give kids a 'tutorial' on how to play in a sandbox? Or do you just let them dig and pile sand on their own, learning along the way that wet sand sticks better than dry sand, and how steep a slope a pile can have before it collapses? Do you sit there telling little Bobby: "No! You must pile the sand this way! And dig a hole this way!!"

      And, as explained before, the wiki DOES have a tutorial.

      That should be the first thing a new player sees in the game! They shouldn't have to go to an outside source, that's a cop-out by lazy developers.

      Ah, you ARE the type to sit there and tell your kids exactly how to do stuff, instead of letting them find out on your own. Explains a lot.

      You're the guy who can't figure out that people might start playing it differently because they might not know things already.

      You're the guy who doesn't research anything, and expects to get a pop-up explaining how to do everything.

      Because in other modern games the map is built in from the start. In some games it's right there on the main screen!

      And in other modern games, you have cars and guns and planes and lasers and rocketships. Minecraft ain't that kinda game. It's a survival sandbox game.

      All I want is the ability to toggle the skelly buff and regional difficulty off.

      And others want the ability to turn off zombie tracking. Or they want to adjust the length of the day. Or they want to make cave spiders poison you for less. Or they want to make Zombie Pigmen not hit so hard. Or they want a wood pickaxe to carve through obsidian like butter. Or....

      See the point? Lot's of people want lots of things. Mojang can't give them all what they want, so why are you special??

      Oh, and like I said- Creative, or Peaceful. Either will solve your problem of the game being 'too hard'.

      Oh I know to block the doors, but other players might not know.

      Really? You are seriously suggesting that a significant number of people are too stupid to go 'Hey, the zombies are breaking these doors and attacking the villagers. Maybe I should place a block in front of the doors to stop the zombies"?? I mean, my 4-year old figured it out.

      So how do you find a plains biome? Or a Desert one?

      Pick a direction. Walk.

      Just supposed to walk off in a random direction and dig a hole at night?

      Yes. That's called 'exploration'. And, if you indeed can't handle the mobs, and aren't on Creative or Peaceful, then it is certainly an option to dig a hole to hide in for the night.

      What about food?

      Kill animals along the way. Eat them.

      What about finding one's way back?

      Turn around. Walk the other way.

      Are villages guaranteed to be in EVERY plains or desert biome?

      Nope. If you find a plains without one, keep walking.

      It's not that I don't like it, it's just that if you start there the game is harder for you from the start.

      Not as far as I can see. There are still trees to punch, mobs to kill, dirt and stone to dig.

    17. Re:Have you done more or better? by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Perhaps someone is not familiar with the fact that the sun moves across the sky in Minecraft, just like real life? Hint: how quickly the sun moves can be used to calculate the length of the day!

      You forgot about the things in Minecraft known as Snow or Rain, which can hide the sun.

      Not really. One of the first things I do when starting into a new topic is search for the wiki. And, indeed, Googling 'Minecraft wiki' takes you to... the Minecraft wiki.

      Not everyone is a Slashdot geek who automatically thinks about wiki's. I didn't...at first, the forums led me to it, but I found blogs and the minecraft forum first. You have to remember about those "millions of grandmas" supposedly playing the game. Do you think they read or post the forums?

      Because Minecraft is at its core a sandbox game. Do you give kids a 'tutorial' on how to play in a sandbox?

      Yes! You can tell them the basics to get them started at least. That's all I'm asking... I'm not asking for a built in tutorial on NAND gates and/or Flip-flops using Redstone for new players , but something more akin to the 360 versions tutorial. And more in-game information... maybe there could be books in treasure chests or something.

      And, as explained before, the wiki DOES have a tutorial.

      Yes it does, but it needs to be in-game.

      You're the guy who doesn't research anything,

      But I obviously did, that's how I found the wiki right? I just found the forums and blogs first.

      and expects to get a pop-up explaining how to do everything.

      The funny thing is, the Pocket edition and the 360 version DO give you more in-game information. Why not the PC version as well. I'm not expecting "everything" just some basics for new players.

      Minecraft ain't that kinda game. It's a survival sandbox game.

      Yes, but recently it's become more about Monster Survival XTREME to make the hardcore happy at the expense of the Mining and crafting.

      See the point? Lot's of people want lots of things. Mojang can't give them all what they want, so why are you special??

      Why are you so special that you get to say the game doesn't need a basic tutorial built in...that one version of the game already has. Just because YOU have been playing since Alpha and think the game is too carebear or something doesn't mean you get to make the game a worse experience for new players.

      Oh, and like I said- Creative, or Peaceful. Either will solve your problem of the game being 'too hard'.

      So why is the solution that the ones who don't like the difficulty changes play peaceful or creative...when the solution could also be that the changes be moved so that they're Hard/Hardcore only.

      http://www.minecraftforum.net/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=23162816

      We don't want to play in Creative, that takes all the fun out of gathering your materials. We don't want to play on Peaceful difficulty, because we need to get the items that the mobs drop, and we don't mind having to kill a few mobs to get them. What we DON'T want is to have our entire Minecraft existence be centered around nothing but having to kill a billion zombies anytime we want to go outside our house.

      You did know that on peaceful, slimes that already are spawned despawn, right? Thus preventing a player on that difficulty from making leashes, Magna cream or Sticky Pistons.

      and if you start peaceful, hostile mobs don't spawn at all, so no drops, thus denying many items from those who play on that.

      Really? You are seriously suggesting that a significant number of people are too stupi

    18. Re:Have you done more or better? by schnell · · Score: 1

      Be nice to see you accomplish a fraction of what he has ("big talker/armchair qb" that you are by comparison).

      Hogwash. Think about that idea and by logical extension there should only be about 50 people in the entire tech industry who have any right to comment on anything. Do you really think someone can't comment on a story about Bill Gates because they haven't founded a major software company? Everyone, regardless of what they have accomplished or not, has a right to an opinion; whether you care about their opinion or not is up to you.

      --
      "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
  5. the problem of finishing software projects by tuo42 · · Score: 1

    Something I see often about developers and most developers know for themselves.

    The first 30% to 60% of a project - especially if you are not simply tying frameworks together but creating most things from scratch - are fun. People work overtime without even knowing it. As soon as the tiresome stuff starts, and the mostly painfull/dull last 5% to 10%, motivation drops.

    Then it's a question of wether it's a private or semi-private project or something that HAS to be finished.

    Sadly, many (unexperienced) developers tend to give their timeframe projections during those first "proof-of-concept" days or weeks, and then become even more frustrated when they realize they can't hold the deadline and everything becomes even more painful.

    I think most of us have been there. And since 0x10c was a very "special" idea from the beginning, I am not as surprised as I though I would have been that the project is shelved.

    At least he admits that it simply wasn't fun...not an easy thing to do when you speak about your own pet-project.

    1. Re:the problem of finishing software projects by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      I was always curious about this game idea because frankly it didn't sound fun to me at all, which I kept assuming meant I just didn't understand the whole concept yet.

    2. Re:the problem of finishing software projects by VortexCortex · · Score: 4, Informative

      Something I see often about developers and most developers know for themselves.

      The first 30% to 60% of a project - especially if you are not simply tying frameworks together but creating most things from scratch - are fun. People work overtime without even knowing it. As soon as the tiresome stuff starts, and the mostly painfull/dull last 5% to 10%, motivation drops.

      Well, as someone who develops games, it's actually 9001% creating experimental things and prototyping new ideas. Coming up with the core mechanic(s), and proofing the in-game player interface, etc. That's the hard part. I'd say less than one out of ten ideas plan out. Coming up with tangential mechanics and adding a bit of depth that works is the first 30% to 60% of the actual project, and putting the polish on something and seeing through is the rest, but there was a ton of effort you never even see, possibly even entire games that never see the light of day. Even if you do make public the "in-progress" game/ideas most of the them won't be known to the general public leading up to a successful project.

      So, what if someone came along and does most of the experimenting and prototyping and comes up with something playable and fun. What if instead of coming up with your own ideas you just take that? What if you add a bit of the tangential stuff to someone else's proven core mechanics and gameplay platform. If you do that you can avoid all that pre-production work. That's what Notch Did.

      So, if you got rich by co-opting someone else's ideas wholesale, and your own new ideas are bland and self admittedly devoid of fun... What would you do? Would you decide to go back to making procedural rip-offs of mario? Maybe hang out with some indie gamedevs since that's where you got your best idea from in the first place? Isn't that what Notch would do if he needed new ideas to execute before lesser funded folks could?

      Oh, maybe not. Maybe Notch just needs less pressure, yeah, that's it... Let's ignore the whole "Creative Block" story that came out months ago: "It's just some kind of weird creative block that's been going on for too long and [0x10c] is going to be put on ice until we can fix that."

      Huh, a weird creative block, that's actually very odd. Odder still that this cancellation is news... You know, most game devs, especially indies, suffer from having so many damn ideas they have no time to try them all out. A common problem is having TOO MANY projects going on at once, and these are just a few folks with zero dollars... The games you get could have been 50 times better in most indie devs' minds, they just had to stop adding stuff at some point -- Or strip stuff out to streamline gameplay. How Strange.

      FYI: If you hang out with Notch, keep your ideas to yourself, especially if it's kind of fun. Don't get Zynga'd. Don't be Notch's next Infiniminer.

      Then it's a question of wether it's a private or semi-private project or something that HAS to be finished. Sadly, many (unexperienced) developers tend to give their timeframe projections during those first "proof-of-concept" days or weeks, and then become even more frustrated when they realize they can't hold the deadline and everything becomes even more painful. I think most of us have been there. And since 0x10c was a very "special" idea from the beginning, I am not as surprised as I though I would have been that the project is shelved. At least he admits that it simply wasn't fun...not an easy thing to do when you speak about your own pet-project.

    3. Re:the problem of finishing software projects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, as someone who develops games, it's actually 9001% creating experimental things and prototyping new ideas.

      I hope your games don't rely on percentage calculations ...

    4. Re:the problem of finishing software projects by Reapy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think people praise notch for being a great game designer, do they? He kinda just kept doing stuff and hit it at the right time with the right game. We hadn't been subjected to the alpha funding model before, and that sale of 'promise' was still new and squeaky, and indie games hadn't quite exploded yet, right time, right place.

      All games are copies and iterations on existing ones, EQ -> DAOC -> WOW for example, each added their own twist to the previous and improved upon it. I played infiniminer before getting minecraft and it just lacked something that minecraft has, that flavor and personality of the world.

      Anyway I agree strongly with your sentiment but the fact is that the world doesn't reward hard work and knowledge and creativity. I have a friend working on a game with this pretty bad ass hand built 2d engine, he made it back before Unity/UDK existed and all that in c++ / dirextx. It is really kickass honestly, and the game play of several of his games is pretty damn good, a one man creation of a functioning RTS.

      Though the art was off, he lost money/time to add the polish layer once the engine and gameplay was good, and the game sold basically nothing. That polish push is where the $'s are at, and always has been. The world always walks on the back of great engineers, and unfortunately I don't see this trend ending any time soon.

    5. Re:the problem of finishing software projects by hackula · · Score: 1

      As the saying goes: The first 90% of the project takes 90% of the time, and the last 10% of the project takes the other 90% of the time.

    6. Re:the problem of finishing software projects by Rakishi · · Score: 1

      The world always walks on the back of great engineers, and unfortunately I don't see this trend ending any time soon.

      Why should I praise someone who creates something that is of no value to me or of less value than what someone else made? If you make a device that costs me more time than it saves due to a useless UI how is that of any use to me? You can write the most brilliant code ever but unless that translates to a visible impact or feature for customers what's the advantage?

    7. Re:the problem of finishing software projects by fredprado · · Score: 2

      The answer is: you shouldn't, but another question is: why anyone should care about what you think is of value? Especially people who managed to make something that is of enough use to millions of others for them to voluntarily give their moneys to him...

    8. Re:the problem of finishing software projects by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Didn't sound like fun to me either, just some super time consuming space game with features only programming professionals would/could ever use.

    9. Re:the problem of finishing software projects by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      I think this view that you can't make a spin on someone's game idea in case it becomes financially successful is antithetical to what indie games are about.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    10. Re:the problem of finishing software projects by Reapy · · Score: 1

      I agree with what you are saying, and there is a large degree of talent in finding appropriate application of technology, but sometimes those first strides to create the tech is often where the true genius lies, and often those people are under appreciated and/or compensated for it.

  6. Define "finished" by tepples · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's been labeled 1.0 and even released on disc for a closed platform. This makes it "finished" by at least some objective standards. Was Quake III Arena for Mac and Windows not finished while it was still getting patches? Are Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 games "not finished" while they're still getting DLC? Was Doki Doki Panic for Famicom Disk System "not finished" because Nintendo revised it into Super Mario Bros. 2: Mario Madness for NES, Super Mario All-Stars for Super NES, and Super Mario Advance for Game Boy Advance, adding more than a straight port each time?

    1. Re:Define "finished" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His point was that it was "finished" under Dinnerbone and others; Notch hasn't been a developer on Minecraft for some years.

      Duke Nukem Forever is finished, but 3DRealms didn't finish it, Gearbox did.

    2. Re:Define "finished" by Sockatume · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's not what X8675309 meant, but he was mistaken anyway; Notch handed over project management of Minecraft to Jeb, but not until after v1.0 was released.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    3. Re:Define "finished" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      X0563511 didn't say Minecraft wasn't finished, he said Notch ceased actively contributing to its development while it was in Alpha.

    4. Re:Define "finished" by Mitchell314 · · Score: 2

      Minecraft has been and is under continual development. 'Release' has a much more tenuous meaning here, there was already a large and well established community for the game well before it was officially 'released'.

      --
      I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
    5. Re:Define "finished" by X0563511 · · Score: 0

      "1.0" means nothing - it's not feature complete, so it's still Alpha.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    6. Re:Define "finished" by X0563511 · · Score: 0

      To be clear, just because they said it was "1.0" and not alpha, doesn't make it not alpha. It's not feature complete - it's still in alpha state no matter what you choose to call it.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    7. Re:Define "finished" by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Yes. The average game today is not finished at release. At least it's not in a state that deserves the name "finished". Considering the amount of alcohole imbibed by some Finns I know, some of the games sure seem very Finnished, (joke works with polish, too, btw) but not finished by any stretch.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    8. Re:Define "finished" by dadelbunts · · Score: 1

      No, finished is finished. As in a game that makes good on things promised. ESPECIALLY when talking about a game such as minecraft, which was sold as a beta, on the promise of more things coming later. Half the shit in the game he got from community mods, such as grass, and half the shit promised isnt even in the game at all, such as lanterns. If they had a standard business model i wouldnt even care, as what you see is what you get. But since they presold the game promising new features and updates, alot which never came, then thats just fucked up.

    9. Re:Define "finished" by fredprado · · Score: 1

      Most games in the market are not feature completed as designed. In the design process the vast majority of games suffer cuts. And most never become feature complete. Minecraft being under development is a good thing, because unlike other games that cut features and never implement them, Minecraft will keep having lacking and newly thought features implemented for as long as it is maintained.

    10. Re:Define "finished" by jandrese · · Score: 1

      Minecraft is kind of like a MMO. Each patch brings out some new feature (Horses! Upside down stairs! Hoppers!), except that they never ask you for any more money. It's best played with a group of people too.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    11. Re:Define "finished" by localman · · Score: 2

      > it's not feature complete

      No software that is sufficiently popular is ever feature complete.

      Feature complete basically means EOL.

    12. Re:Define "finished" by Brucelet · · Score: 1

      That might be true in enterprise, but it certainly isn't in gaming.

    13. Re:Define "finished" by jythie · · Score: 1

      It was feature complete for 1.0. It has simply gotten upgrades since.

    14. Re:Define "finished" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But it is. Even after original authors move on, every popular game has a dedicated modding community and people thinking about ways to improve and change it, and even such perfect in their minimalism games like Pong, Snake or Tetris get new features added once in a while.

    15. Re:Define "finished" by jythie · · Score: 1

      The feature complete requirement for beta only really applies to waterfall release models. For products that are on a constant iterative release schedule, once the core product is ready, it is a bit of a useless term. Minecraft alpha was not in 'alpha' in the traditional software development sense.

    16. Re:Define "finished" by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      It's best played with a group of people too.

      I consider that a serious design flaw. It's no wonder multiplayer is popular because in single-player there's too much stuff for one player to do and it can become overwhelming, especially with chunks not updating (farms) when you're far enough away from them.

    17. Re:Define "finished" by jythie · · Score: 1

      Ahm... lanterns were dropped due to community feedback.

      They have had a steady stream of new features and updates the entire time I have been playing, which is close to 4 years now. Any particular feature might not make it in, but that is hardly breaking their promise for adding new stuff.

    18. Re:Define "finished" by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Yes, but that means Mojang has to devote resources to Minecraft....forever. Think about it, do you think Squaresoft or Bethesda have staff devoted to working on the Final Fantasy VI or Oblivion codebase...no. That means that those companies can put their manpower on NEW projects...oh say for example a space game with a built in programmable CPU only hardcore nerds will use.

      But Mojang can't do that, which is bad because they're "Indie" and simply don't have enough resources or people to spare.

    19. Re:Define "finished" by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      Minecraft will never be feature complete, because its featureset is constantly being expanded.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    20. Re:Define "finished" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you have any idea how ridiculously rich Notch has gotten off Minecraft? It's the Blair Witch Project of gaming, an indie production made on a very indie budget which nevertheless sold millions of units and therefore has made absurd profits. Notch/Mojang could probably put money in escrow to pay a guy to maintain and extend it for 10 years without making a serious dent in the bankroll, and being Minecraft it would really only need one guy. In fact, continuing sales can probably pay for it straight up.

      The fact that Notch felt it was a great idea to go waste his time on an idea that was obviously a bit flawed ("a space game with a built in programmable CPU only hardcore nerds will use", but said programmable CPU was going to be a major focus of his design efforts) is actually evidence of this. A studio with few resources to risk wouldn't be wasting time on a project like that. Unless he's really foolish with his pile, Notch won't run out of money any time soon.

    21. Re:Define "finished" by tepples · · Score: 1

      every popular game has a dedicated modding community and people thinking about ways to improve and change it [...] Tetris

      Until the game's publisher starts cease-and-desisting and suing the modding community. The Tetris Company, for example, has successfully sued a clone developer.

  7. 0x10c == 0xdeadbeef by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Arithmetic exception, game over

  8. Gaming. by Rod+Beauvex · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Taking time to chat during a streamed TF2 game...

    Well there's the problem right there.

    It kills me how people complain about how in a hurry they are and how they never have the time to do anything, and they never connect it with the fact that they're always gaming.

    Karma going down in 3...2...1...


    Fortune: System going down in 5 minutes. :D

    1. Re:Gaming. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Man, it's almost like he has a life outside of working! Who would imagine such a thing...

    2. Re:Gaming. by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      I would like to point out Notch has his own, one-of-a-kind hat in TF2.

      --
      Good-bye
    3. Re:Gaming. by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      It kills me how people complain about how in a hurry they are and how they never have the time to do anything, and they never connect it with the fact that they're always gaming.

      Haven't you heard? Gamifying a thing always makes it better.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    4. Re:Gaming. by jareth-0205 · · Score: 1

      It kills me how people complain about how in a hurry they are and how they never have the time to do anything, and they never connect it with the fact that they're always gaming.

      How dare he not work all his waking hours on a single project! The lazy bastard!

    5. Re:Gaming. by Raenex · · Score: 1

      Karma going down in 3...2...1...

      Stop karma whoring.

    6. Re:Gaming. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Karma going down in 3...2...1...

      Regardless of what else it says, any post that includes this sentiment automatically deserves any downmods it gets. No exceptions.

    7. Re:Gaming. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He also has a pickaxe named after him in Skyrim.

  9. Strange Guy. by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He heavily promotes a new project, even live streams his coding of it, then quits because people are paying too much attention to it. WTF. If you don't want anyone paying any attention to your projects, don't live stream the coding of it. Just don't talk about it, and release it when its done.

    --
    Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    1. Re:Strange Guy. by spiffydudex · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Seriously, Notch brought this upon himself. He asked for the attention and got it. Complaining about it isn't going to fix anything and this stunt will make the masses unhappy because he is a quitter.

    2. Re:Strange Guy. by Crimey+McBiggles · · Score: 1

      When I started at my current job, I began pair-programming with the system architect. Seeing him work before being expected to contribute helped me gain understanding of the state of the system, things that need to be done, and things that must be postponed due to complexity. Eventually, the architect moved on to a better job, and it became my task to fill the void - in part by emulating the actions of the former architect. Complain all you want about how the developer left something unfinished. Realistically, he inspired the community while providing direction on a nascent project in an innovative fashion. Maybe he grew weary from all the input into his idea, maybe he genuinely felt his contribution had maxed out. Sometimes a developer has to move on to more inspiring work.

      --
      Crimey
    3. Re:Strange Guy. by Nemyst · · Score: 2

      I think it's just an excuse for a much more simple fact: there was no game behind this. All he had was an idea (just like Minecraft, really) which wasn't much of a game. Let's have space ships and programming and let's make it like Minecraft and Elite and whatever! Then, unlike Minecraft, he didn't manage to figure out how to make it into a game. It just ended up being a bunch of disparate systems which didn't work well together or just weren't fun to use.

      That's the way I see it anyway. Throughout the news about that game, all I ever heard was how cool some feature was, except it really wasn't. Coding in assembly? Dear god no. Exploring procedurally generated space? That's been done before, and most of it would turn into Minecraft again. There wasn't a whole lot to it yet.

    4. Re:Strange Guy. by chuckinator · · Score: 1

      Software is on the list of stuff you don't want to watch being made along with sausages and laws. Seriously, it can be boring, exhausting, and tedious, and having hordes of outsiders playing armchair project manager only interrupts the process. It's a different story if you're working on a free software community project in an open forum, but even that needs an assigned project manager to field the input from people not in the inner circle.

    5. Re:Strange Guy. by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      i don't doubt that he was feeling a lot of pressure to succede wildly again. But I do agree with you that it just didn't sound like much of a game. In fact I would have liked the idea of it a lot more as a straight up expansion or addon for Minecraft. Simply enabling the building of space ships. You could keep the computer programming and maybe add robots and such that you can build and program to do your bidding, whether that is flying your ship, gathering materials, automating mining and construction on larger scales, manning the defenses of your ships, stations, and fortresses.

    6. Re:Strange Guy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair Elite wasn't much of a game either, but it was still an awesome way to spend your time.

    7. Re:Strange Guy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You mean the same way Minecraft was developed? Completely and utterly unprofitable, went through about 60 alpha versions, completely ignored by the gaming press and only caught the public's attention when it was pirated, popularized and /.'ed by 4chan? Yeah, thats a great way to make money.

      By the way, you should stop talking and only release your thoughts when you're done thinking them through.

    8. Re:Strange Guy. by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

      I don't think you understood my point. I don't know the best way to do anything, least of all think or develop games. But Notch was asking for the very things he was complaining about. Its like ordering vodka at a bar and then complaining to the waiter that he served you alcohol. What the hell did he expect?

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    9. Re:Strange Guy. by dadelbunts · · Score: 1

      Are you seriously trying to victimize Notch? What about all the people that made basically the same game before he did, yet no one knows who the fuck they are. Do you know who made Infiniminer? Fortresscraft? Exactly.

    10. Re:Strange Guy. by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 1

      I don't really feel sorry for him, but I do understand him. Few of us will ever know what it's like to have success on Notch's scale, but I'm sure plenty of us can relate even in some small way.

      Sometimes, usually by accident, you fall into a wildly successful project. And one day you catch yourself really, dreadfully bored of it, yet still fervently working on it. Maybe due to a sense of ownership -- not wanting others to screw it up --, or maybe just because a ton of people expect you to and it gives you a little prestige that you're afraid to let go of. If you're lucky you'll wake up and stop lying to yourself, move on to different things, hopefully find someone to continue the work. Because even though you genuinely care about the project and don't want to disappoint its fans, you can't kill yourself doing it.

      Unwise to generate publicity for a toy project? Definitely. He's only human. It's clear that the main thing he enjoys is sharing his toys, not necessarily generating a finished product.

    11. Re:Strange Guy. by jythie · · Score: 1

      Though with any luck someone will pick up the idea and find a way to make it work. One thing that games like EvE have always really lacked was a good way to actually _build_ thing as opposed to just placing other people's art in space.

    12. Re:Strange Guy. by richcoder · · Score: 1

      I wonder if Notch doesn't take on big projects anymore has more to do with him affording not to deal with the stress and patience it takes to deliver a big project. I think it is the same problem that many in the post-success stage have. Look at some of the greatest bands in recent history. You don't see Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, Eagles etc creating at the same level they used to despite being the same creative people. Another example are actors like Al Pacino, Robert De Niro, and Harrison Ford. I just don't think they have motivation for money, more fame, or that self-high of doing something great yet again. If you didn't have to worry about money would you still work on what you are working on now? At the very least, it sure would make it easy for me to say fuck it when the work hits a low point. -rich

    13. Re:Strange Guy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What an asinine comparison. All those bands and actors you mentioned are less productive because they got old. Every one of them demonstrated an ability to create and perform and sustained it for a period of decades before tapering off. Notch is an entirely different phenomenon -- he was getting lazy and easily distracted while he was still working on Minecraft. Dude didn't even properly finish his own hit game, even though it was a very simple one.

    14. Re:Strange Guy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then, unlike Minecraft, he didn't manage to figure out how to make it into a game. It just ended up being a bunch of disparate systems which didn't work well together or just weren't fun to use.

      I would argue the same thing is actually true of Minecraft. Notch never made it into a real game. That's what the "survival" stuff and crafting system was supposed to be, but it's paper thin. If the gameplay was the reason (or even a major reason) for people to play Minecraft, it would've remained an obscure thing nobody ever heard of.

      The reason it's popular is basically that people really love playing with computerized Legos. So much so that they love Minecraft even though a lot of its features are pretty terrible (the redstone system is gag inducing).

      IMO, Notch is probably going to go down as a one-hit wonder once it's all said and done. He lucked into a category of sandbox game which there was so much unmet demand for that it got huge almost in spite of his efforts (it took him forever to add anything to Minecraft even when he was supposedly trying to bring it out of alpha). Notch isn't creative or dedicated enough to build a game which is actually good on the merits of its gameplay, and as you note you can probably only do a sandbox mega-hit once.

  10. "We love your game Mr Notch!" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Well screw you, you ain't getting shit now!"

    Notch is like... he hates himself because he is popular or something.
    He has something wrong with him.
    Spacecraft would have sold like crazy and retained a decent number of subs too.

    "Small games", aka ones he can release with bugs and give zero fucks about after.
    He is the worst example of an indie dev, one success and live off it.

    1. Re:"We love your game Mr Notch!" by Somebody+Is+Using+My · · Score: 1

      I think he's a great example of an indie dev.

      He's made one huge success. Let him live off it. He doesn't /have/ to keep producing games for us. It's great that he was so successful and I wish him the best. Maybe one day he'll return to 0x10c, or think of something new. It's wonderful that he has that sort of leisure. And it's awesome that he hasn't just shoved the code for 01x10c in a (virtual) drawer somewhere; he's letting others on his team keep working on it.

      Frankly, 0x10c never sounded that interesting to me so I'm not that upset about it. I'm sure it would have sold well, but more because of its connection to Minecraft than because of its inherent value. That Notch can step back and look at the project and say, "ehn" is encouraging; it shows his focus is on the love of the game and not just about the money. Isn't that what we love about independent developers over the mass-produced pablum coming out of the big publishers?

      So good for you, Notch. Do what you want and even if you never produce another title, Minecraft will remain an awesome legacy and your success helped pave the way for thousands of other independents.

    2. Re:"We love your game Mr Notch!" by seebs · · Score: 1

      I have never known a creative type who didn't get frustrated with projects when people were getting up in their face about what they were working on. So I guess I don't feel much reason to complain here. Yeah, he sort of caused it, but lots of people make that mistake a few times before getting the hang of it.

      --
      My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
    3. Re:"We love your game Mr Notch!" by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      no.. what he means with small games is games that could actually work as games with finite development time.

      the concept was unrealistic(as a nice game) and the kind of concept you get if you smoke weed with some nerds who don't actually code.

      the released video footage on the other hand seems to have 0% to do with the concept.

      so.. there we have it.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    4. Re:"We love your game Mr Notch!" by Redmancometh · · Score: 1

      Wanting to code what he wants to code, and how. What a dick.

    5. Re:"We love your game Mr Notch!" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think he's a great example of an indie dev.

      He's made one huge success. Let him live off it. He doesn't /have/ to keep producing games for us.

      Wait, do we like copyright law now? If this were about a one-hit wonder artists we'd all be bitching about him living off a single creative work. But because it's Notch, we like him, so he should profit from his one-hit wonder forever? Isn't that a little hypocritical? Aren't copyright laws to encourage further creative endeavors? Or, because we're mostly developers here, is it to make a software developer [only] well off for the rest of their life after one success?

      There isn't really a right answer here. I'm just saying it seems hypocritical, because if this were a Hollywood mogul we'd tell him to shut his mouth and make better movies. We'd tell him his right to profit from a work ends in a finite number of years, and that if he'd like to continue making money he has to continue creating new works.

      But for Notch it's different. He should profit forever. Maybe we should just admit it. We all would want a product like Minecraft and would like to receive revenue from it for the rest of our lives. It's only people we don't like and people we feel don't deserve the revenue that should lose their right to profit from their work. I doubt many here on Slashdot would willingly give up the revenue rights to Minecraft after 12 years or so. They'd say "I made it I earned it." Well, that's what every other creative producer thinks as well. Why are you right and they are wrong?

  11. Market research by tepples · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Except that when your own company develops video games, gaming is more like researching a competitor's product or service.

    1. Re:Market research by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Im not gaming, Im developing my typing skills!

    2. Re:Market research by discord5 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except that when your own company develops video games, gaming is more like researching a competitor's product or service.

      Nah, in Notches case it's just a lack of attention span. Don't get me wrong, he's an okay guy, but just follow his twitter account for a month or two. He hops from idea to idea, would rather be working on something else once he starts, drops everything for a 7-day FPS competition, etc. The old joke used to be that notch codes a few lines in between his vacations.

      I think his attention span problem comes from a lack of incentive to work on something from start to finish. With minecraft his incentive was that it was making him a millionaire, but then at some point (when it went from "ludicrously popular" to "proposterously popular") he delegated that to someone else.

      Having said that, he got lucky and he seems a guy with a right mindset at times. So he failed this time, as do many. They just don't have a billion followers wolfing down every word they utter.

    3. Re:Market research by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Yes, but why is that? I mean, there are people who are famous for one reason or another, maybe they did something right ONCE, maybe they got lucky, maybe they just happened to be hyped to the top by someone who makes money off them, and suddenly everyone cares about their opinion about ... well, EVERYTHING.

      Yes, he made a game, one that a lot of people enjoy, as do I (ok, no more, but I have spent my time playing it). It has its charm. But that doesn't mean that his opinion on gaming matters any more than anyone else's. And he sure as hell isn't the authority on graphics design, I hope we can agree on that one.

      Basically, what he did is to mix playing with Legos with a survival game. Of course, that has some appeal. It doesn't make him any kind of expert in game design, though. Essentially, his feat was to have the idea first, and the guts to implement it. It was finally something new after thousands of FPS and RTS games. But purely from a programmer's point of view, it was hardly a big leap ahead.

      I don't want to belittle him, he deserves what he got, simply because he was the first to have the idea, to risk implementing it and to simply "do it", when everyone else was, at best, pondering whether it would be a good idea. But acting like he is some kind of "game guru" is a bit far fetched, IMO.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:Market research by dadelbunts · · Score: 2

      No, he wasnt the first to have the idea nor implement it. Pretty sure Roblox was out way before MC. He just got lucky his version got popular.

    5. Re:Market research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod this up. Roblox was out long before Minecraft. Kids been playing it for years. They have a lot more options and things you can do than in Minecraft too.

    6. Re:Market research by jandrese · · Score: 1

      Notch loves doing demos and one-offs. He's also really good at it, which is why you'll see him at every "Code something over the weekend for Charity!" type events. He's got millions of euros now that says he can do that if he wants.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    7. Re:Market research by localman · · Score: 1

      I have no race in this horse (never played Minecraft or Roblox), but why do you assume it was luck that let Minecraft take the lead over Roblox, as opposed to it being better?

      And I'm not looking for some subjective response like "Roblox has way better XYZ!" I'm wondering why people flocked to Minecraft. There must be a reason. If the answer is "luck" that probably just means Minecraft is better in ways that are hard to quantify.

    8. Re:Market research by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      The problem with Notch is he is an ideasguy with grand scopes for things but has knowledge of coding left in the 80s and 90s.

      He's self taught I've read. Probably one of those ex euro-pirate guys whose brain is stuck in the Amiga or ST.days who goes off and starts some indie phone game company once he realizes he wants to make money.

    9. Re:Market research by jythie · · Score: 1

      Well, it was a bit of both. Minecraft was one of a whole class of games, but a combination of how it was made, community, and luck of getting noticed by some high profile people are what did it. Luck was not the only factor, but it was a big one.

    10. Re:Market research by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      I think his attention span problem comes from a lack of incentive to work on something from start to finish.

      I think part of that goes with being a European developer that seems to be common among them, the lack of ability or desire to do the "final finishing and polishing". Of course it just might be the "indie mindset". If you're non-indie you've got "somebody" who can say NO or give an order. "By god, you put necessary game information IN THE GAME, stop adding new features and do the final polish or heads will roll."

    11. Re:Market research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not how popularity works. Obviously products that everyone thinks are awful won't succeed (excepting so-bad-it's-good items like Rebecca Black's "Friday", but that's really just a different kind of not awful), but precisely which products become popular is essientally a result of random chance. There was a study posted to Slashdot a little while ago (that I unfortunately can't find right now) about a research experiment where the exact same set of 30 songs was seeded into multiple social networks and different songs became popular in different ones, indicating quality had little correlation with popularity.

    12. Re:Market research by dadelbunts · · Score: 1

      Also Infiniminer i believe.

  12. Re:0x10c == 268 by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

    Arithmetic exception, game over

    0x10c = 268; // A play on 286, or 80286

  13. More Upset by Scrolls by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    Scrolls is currently Mac and PC only, it looks great https://scrolls.com/ There is a indication that it will be coming soon http://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/mojangs-scrolls-is-coming-to-linux-soon.2135 although personally I am not holding my breath. Fortunately Linux isn't short of games anymore.

    1. Re:More Upset by Scrolls by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Fortunately Linux isn't short of games anymore.

      Ha ha ha ha ha, really? Citation Needed.

      (Yes I know there's games for Linux, I run Linux myself, but the numbers of Windows games dwarfs it by orders of magnitude)

  14. Notch beaten to the punch by StupidKatz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There are quite a few games already well on their way to completion that are generally similar to the publicized ideas for 0x10c:

    Blockade Runner will feature "fully destructible, operational, crewable 'living' starships in a procedurally generated galaxy".
    https://blockaderunnergame.com/home.aspx

    Shores of Hazeron is a first-person 4X-style game featuring fully-customizable spacecraft, city building and management, exploration, trade, combat, and more. It's playable right now, though it's under heavy development.
    http://hazeron.com/

    ... and then there's Star Citizen, of course; a cross between Freelancer and Wing Commander - but you'll need to wait a while.
    http://robertsspaceindustries.com/

    1. Re:Notch beaten to the punch by aztektum · · Score: 2

      couple more....

      http://star-made.org/ ... pretty much minecraft in space

      http://www.starforge.com/ ... interesting mix of minecraft, halo graphics/combat, supposedly spaceships, though they have yet to ship that

      --
      :: aztek ::
      No sig for you!!
    2. Re:Notch beaten to the punch by thereitis · · Score: 1

      Procedural-generated space game - nice. I was thinking a couple days ago about whether there's a Tradewars 2002 type of game with procedurally generated warps, resources, etc. Yeah, retro. :)

    3. Re:Notch beaten to the punch by sourcerror · · Score: 1

      There's also Rawbots, a robot building game where you can design your own robot, program it, and battle against other robots in arenas that you can design yourself. Multiplayer isn't done yet, but they're working on it. The robot building/programming and level editing features already work and are quite fun.

      http://www.rawbots.net/

    4. Re:Notch beaten to the punch by pmikell · · Score: 1

      Another game in the genre: http://www.master-space.com/

    5. Re:Notch beaten to the punch by jandrese · · Score: 1

      It's also important to remember that of all of the projects announced, maybe 10% of them will make it to release. So working on something that someone else has announced interest in doesn't mean much. There are a bajillion minecraft clones out there that claim they will do it better, but I've yet to see one that works as well as the original. Often times they'll have a couple of features the developer really wanted, like realistic water physics, but utterly fall down in many other ways (no mobs, horrendous performance, etc...)

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    6. Re:Notch beaten to the punch by Pecisk · · Score: 2

      And of course sequel to the game who started it all - Elite: Dangerous, who is in development, and planned to be released in March next year.

      More information https://elite.frontier.co.uk/

      --
      user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
    7. Re:Notch beaten to the punch by StarTuxia · · Score: 1

      Elite: Dangerous is going to be dark horse, plus Notch backed the project from the start and will be in the Alpha, finally Frontier do not seem to be doing as much marketing as SC, yet don't seem to be hurting financially (maybe cheaper labour around Cambridge? Coupled with the IPO?).

  15. Project Trillek by Meneth · · Score: 1

    Open-source game "inspired by 0x10c: http://trillek.org/

    1. Re:Project Trillek by Teancum · · Score: 1

      It will be interesting to see if anything happens with Trillek. At the moment it is a whole lot of talk and bruised egos with not much code, but I'm hoping that changes. They are still arguing about what compilers are going to be used, and almost universally they are moving away from Java.

      As a fan community which attracted a whole bunch of programmers, it isn't surprising that they are picking up their tools and making the game they wanted to play in the first place. I guess that will be a sort of legacy even if Notch is not directly involved. It would be funny as hell if Notch used a pseudonym and joined the community helping to contribute a little bit of code but staying low key otherwise.

  16. Bring in a closer by tepples · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If there's one thing I learned from the film Don't Tell Mom the Babysitter's Dead, it's "delegate, delegate, delegate." If you know you're not the right kind of person to finish a project, then bring in someone else who is. Baseball likewise has a concept of a closing pitcher who specializes in finishing games.

    1. Re:Bring in a closer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really, seriously don't think we need to be taking advice from anyone who claims to have learned something from the film Don't Tell Mom the Babysitter's Dead if that thing isn't "oh dear god don't ever watch Don't Tell Mom the Babysitter's Dead".

    2. Re:Bring in a closer by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      You appear to be judging a book by it's cover. Or more appropriately, rejecting wisdom because it comes from an 80's teen movie. Or 90's.

      There are probably some valuable lessons to be learned from anything. I'm going to now watch porn. To prove my thesis that there are important lessons everywhere. I'll report back when I get some results.

    3. Re:Bring in a closer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I really, seriously don't think we need to be taking advice from anyone who claims to have learned something from the film Don't Tell Mom the Babysitter's Dead if that thing isn't "oh dear god don't ever watch Don't Tell Mom the Babysitter's Dead".

      2 words: Christina Applegate

      If that it's a good reason (or two, depending on your point of view) to watch it, I don't know what is.

    4. Re:Bring in a closer by lgw · · Score: 1

      Don't Tell Mom the Babysitter's Dead is a surprising good "teen movie" - a coming of age flick about actually needing to work and take responsibility in adult life. Not a message we get enough of these days, I don't think.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  17. Release the source! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We will finish it.

  18. ITT: Armchair QB's n butt hurt nobodies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I love all the opinions being tossed about by folks that are butthurt someone else couldn't complete something.

    If you're all so much better at getting things done than Notch, own it and write your own space game. Otherwise, quit complaining someone else decided not to do the work for you.

  19. Re:0x10c == 268 by Teancum · · Score: 2

    The number is 0x10^c..... note the exponent.

    Not that it matters much any more, but the number is a fair bit larger.

  20. Fix Minecraft x 1.6.x sucks donkey balls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He should get rid of Jeb and continue working on Minecraft. The entire Minecraft community is split up. Many gamers simply hate what Jeb made with Minecraft 1.6.x. The new Launcher causes a lot of pains and simply sucks. He also started to turn the entire game into some sort of Adventure gaming. Go and read all the Minecraft forums, with people totally upset and pissed off.

  21. Re:0x10c == 268 by Sockatume · · Score: 1

    My bad. I am ashamed.

    --
    No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
  22. Re:Fix Minecraft x 1.6.x sucks donkey balls by flimflammer · · Score: 1

    Dear god no. If Notch went back to writing Minecraft I would probably stop getting updates for it. At least Jeb can actually follow through with implementing new features that are at least moderately interesting and not just adding rare half-heart cooking recipies to the game which do ultimately nothing.

    I will give you the new launcher is a steaming pile of pig vomit, but it is merely the first iteration.

  23. Don't forget Rodina by toygeek · · Score: 1

    Don't forget Rodina http://elliptic-games.com/

  24. Re:Fix Minecraft x 1.6.x sucks donkey balls by thereitis · · Score: 1

    It makes no sense that horse armour can't be crafted. I hope they change it. The new launcher is a step in the right direction - upgrades were a killer for bukkit servers since you couldn't play them after a client game (until the server also upgraded). Now at least you have a fairly straight-forward way to play on servers running older software. I wish horses could be summoned like on World of Warcraft. In their current form your horse is basically locked to a continent unless you want to build a massive bridge to get somewhere else. Horses also wander off too quickly. Can't even cut down a tree without having to go and chase it down. I also find the constant need to get XP to repair items is makes minecraft "grindy". I use my tools/weapons to gather resources and the XP I get is enough to keep them repaired, but more often not enough left to enchant new tools.

  25. Open Ended by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    To be fair Elite wasn't much of a game either, but it was still an awesome way to spend your time.

    No Elite was a lot of game. http://www.oolite.org/ current remake.

  26. Pfft. Tekkit, again. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously, the packs included in Tekkit Main really is all the spacecraft he'd be able to get in.

    He's currently fubaring it with making it impossible to stay still whilst not helping with a nomadic lifestyle (seriously, you need a sodding cart when you've managed to work out a good location for a few days. That stuff won't shift. Meanwhile, for the incentive to go exploring, Hexxit has managed that.

    Seriously, Minecraft is a five-dollar game if it weren't for things like Tekkit, FTB, Hexxit, etc.

    1. Re:Pfft. Tekkit, again. by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      He's currently fubaring it with making it impossible to stay still whilst not helping with a nomadic lifestyle

      Regional Difficulty? That's Jeb's fault, not Notches.

      You know that's another thing, with no other game company do we refer to their programmers with cute little "nicks" It's almost a
      "indie personality cult"

    2. Re:Pfft. Tekkit, again. by tibman · · Score: 1

      Don't forget Toady One.

      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
  27. puts DNF in perspective... by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    Notch is just back-burnering the project. Heck, he's got 281,474,976,712,643 years to go.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  28. Re:0x10c == 268 by jandrese · · Score: 1

    The premise of the game was that someone set the "sleep time" on his cold sleep device but got the byte order wrong and was sent so far forward in time that the universe is almost completely through its lifecycle and is deep into the heat death. Of course that was preliminary, he never developed the storyline much.

    Most of the focus seemed to be on the in-game computer thing, which was neat but Notch never seemed to have a very good idea what he wanted to do with the rest of the game. I think he lost interest when he couldn't figure out a way to make it a game.

    --

    I read the internet for the articles.
  29. It's notch, after all. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are we all really surprised?

  30. Re:Fix Minecraft x 1.6.x sucks donkey balls by gumpish · · Score: 1

    In their current form your horse is basically locked to a continent unless you want to build a massive bridge to get somewhere else.

    All you need is a lead and a boat and your horse will waterski behind you.

    Horses also wander off too quickly. Can't even cut down a tree without having to go and chase it down.

    Use a lead.

    I use my tools/weapons to gather resources and the XP I get is enough to keep them repaired, but more often not enough left to enchant new tools.

    Build a blaze suffocator.

  31. Re:Fix Minecraft x 1.6.x sucks donkey balls by Punko · · Score: 1

    Tie your horse to a post (you can carry one) then it won't wander away. Geez, just like a real horse. I agree on horse armour, but I don't worry too much about it. I'm much more concerned about the inability to craft saddles. I agree with the horse/boat issue - I don't see a way around that until they code the ability to use larger boats. Mind you, the ability to travel endlessly without suffering hunger is a huge boon to those of us who play on hardcore mode. Whining about the inability to craft a specialty armour that only aids your horse (a renewable resourse) against attacks that are completely avoidable is rather petty.

    --
    If only we could fall into a woman's arms without falling into her hands
  32. Re:Fix Minecraft x 1.6.x sucks donkey balls by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

    Simply put, Minecraft is badly designed because it's been changed to suit the tastes of the "hardcore players" whining on the Forums, not the general more casual players that made Mojang their money.

    I did a comment about that problem recently, it doesn't only affect Minecraft:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4097867&cid=44588611

    It makes no sense that horse armour can't be crafted. I hope they change it.

    Or saddles so that one can actually ride the horses.

    Horses also wander off too quickly.

    That's what leashes/leads are for. Slap down a fence, and leash them to it. Yeah it means taking up a valuable inventory slot with a fence. (Really, they should up inventory size)

    I also find the constant need to get XP to repair items is makes minecraft "grindy". I use my tools/weapons to gather resources and the XP I get is enough to keep them repaired, but more often not enough left to enchant new tools.

    Apparently it's more efficient to use non-magical tools and replace as they break, saving your magic stuff for specific purposes. Or else you're expected to make your own XP grinder, which is, of course, "hardcore stuff that is hard for casuals to do"

  33. Don't care. by RobSwider · · Score: 1

    The world is full of games/apps/products that the creator SHOULD have shelved and didn't. At least he's honest enough with his own motivations. Notch gets a pass from me to do whatever the hell he wants. Whether he got 'lucky' with Minecraft, whether it's finished or not, whether he has no attention span, none of it matters. Minecraft has been a source of laughter, anger, joy, excitement, and wonder to me and my son since around 1.1. We even scored Minecon tickets for November.

  34. Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Not to say those are not valid complaints, but the popularity suggests those are not game breakers and don't ruin the fun for most of those who play it.

    The reason MP Minecraft is popular is not "but someone has to watch the crops!", it's "I can build a farm while he builds a redstone Rube Goldberg machine and somebody else goes exploring the caves, and then we can show it off to each other and then all build a transport system to tie it all together".

    Sheer space of things you could do is the fun part, not the things you can't.

    PS: Oh, and I like reading the wiki, just to find out what others found and thought up. Should Mojang include a five page tutorial on basic redstone logic and then a dozen pages more on advanced ways to apply it?

  35. Re:Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, ma by CronoCloud · · Score: 2

    but the popularity suggests those are not game breakers and don't ruin the fun for most of those who play it.

    I think the real question is "how are people actually playing the game" I'm seeing signs that the majority of non-hardcore players are simply using creative or playing on peaceful.

    Sheer space of things you could do is the fun part, not the things you can't.

    True, but how do you find out what you "can" do? You use the wiki.

    Oh, and I like reading the wiki, just to find out what others found and thought up. Should Mojang include a five page tutorial on basic redstone logic and then a dozen pages more on advanced ways to apply it?

    When you play Civilization, what does the game have built into it? The Civilopedia! Even Civilization Revolution has it! Tells you everything you need to know to play the game.

  36. A good reason to keep projects secret by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's emotionally draining to be working on something and have tons of people be SO interested in it. It makes it not fun to do something if other people are too excited about it.

  37. Re:Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, ma by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think the real question is "how are people actually playing the game" I'm seeing signs that the majority of non-hardcore players are simply using creative or playing on peaceful.

    Aaaand it's bad and wrong... how? You state the fact, but leave the reasoning aside. If people enjoy playing it as a pure sandbox, what's wrong with that? Did Notch trick you into buying it by marketing it to you as a hardcore non-linear adventure FPS or something?

    When you play Civilization, what does the game have built into it? The Civilopedia! Even Civilization Revolution has it! Tells you everything you need to know to play the game.

    Yes, because what you need to play Civilization is stats of buildings and units plus possible victory conditions. You could condense knowledge of what's needed to get to Minecraft's endgame in several pages, but:

    True, but how do you find out what you "can" do? You use the wiki.

    Again, that's wrong... how? It's not really the source of "what you can do" on macro level - what you want, your imagination and other players' creations arebetter source for that, and wiki doesn't just list craft recipes plus stats - it includes players' experience and thoughts, constantly updated with new data. The easiest way to replicate that in-game would be just including a WebView linking to wiki's start page. That would be more convenient, but alt tabbing or reading wiki when not playing Minecraft works fine for me - as well as for most others, it seems.

  38. Re:Fix Minecraft x 1.6.x sucks donkey balls by Whorhay · · Score: 1

    Making a blaze farm is kind of a PITA. First of all you have to find a damn fortress. Then fight through it to actually find a spawner and then deactivate it, build your trap around it, build some transport to get back and forth, make that transport immune to randomly spawning zombie pigmen, and on and on. It's a PITA, but ultimately worth it I guess for the fast enchanting.

    Personally I don't usually bother with blazes for a long time. I build a sky trap based on Monkeyfarm's triangular platform farm. That is usually plenty good enough.

    You really don't need to make gobs of enchanted equipment anyways. Once you have a good tool you don't have to repair it, just use it to enchant a new item. That method is much cheaper exp wise.

  39. Why the subterfuge by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    Yes I know there's games for Linux, I run Linux myself

    Then you have been sleeping. The games revolution has already happened. Windows in now an afterthought. Its a new world.

    1. Re:Why the subterfuge by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Then you have been sleeping. The games revolution has already happened. Windows in now an afterthought. Its a new world.

      What fantasy world are you living in and what the hell are you smoking? Windows...an afterthought? Can I buy a Linux native version of:

      Civilization V
      Skyrim
      World of Warcraft
      Diablo 3
      The Sims 3
      League of Legends
      Starcraft 2
      The Elder Scrolls Online

    2. Re:Why the subterfuge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ha ha ha! You Linux Zealots are always a hoot. You're actually living in your own little artificial world. Sad and pathetic, but no less entertaining to the outside observer.

  40. Re:Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, ma by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

    Aaaand it's bad and wrong... how?

    Because some nerds are using "oh minecraft is so popular and it's because it's so nerdy and has redstone circuitry etc etc"...when it's not.

    You could condense knowledge of what's needed to get to Minecraft's endgame in several pages

    Really? Considering what people recommend one does/has BEFORE doing that...I think not. Potions of this, potions of that High level enchanted stuff, not counting you have to find an end portal and have eyes of ender to activate it.

    Again, that's wrong... how?

    Because no other game is that dependent on external sources of information. Even Nethack, which is hardcore-nerdy and very inaccessible to non-nerds, has the Oracle.

    What would happen if a Final Fantasy or Bethesda game had no tutorial, if the controls weren't intuitive, if there was no in-game information, if you could be screwed from the start by the RNG? There would be uproar and demanding of refunds.

    But Notch and Mojang get a pass because they're "indie". I'm sorry, but I think Indie devs should be held to the same standards Square-Enix, Bethesda, Bioware, Blizzard, etc etc are.

  41. Post PC world by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    What fantasy world are you living in and what the hell are you smoking? Windows...an afterthought? Can I buy a Linux native version of:

    A world where we now are hitting 6 Android consoles...quoting old games(I like my games cross platform anyway) is not going to change that. I am currently sporting an Ouya + Xperia Play + Gnu Linux running steam (I'll be honest I'm struggling to play through all the humble bundles)

  42. Re:Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, ma by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because some nerds are using "oh minecraft is so popular and it's because it's so nerdy and has redstone circuitry etc etc"...when it's not.

    How does it even follow from the discussion we're having?.. When did we even start talking about some hypothetic nerds who are using that argument and how does your previous "everyone's playing it on creative and peaceful" refute it? If anything, you're closer to supporting that - building redstone circuits and complex buildings is a whole lot easier in creative mode.

    Really? Considering what people recommend one does/has BEFORE doing that...I think not. Potions of this, potions of that High level enchanted stuff, not counting you have to find an end portal and have eyes of ender to activate it.

    Which part of that doesn't fit in several pages? You'd need about as much experimenting and external sources before you get good enough to play through Elder Scrolls games.

    What would happen if a Final Fantasy or Bethesda game had no tutorial, if the controls weren't intuitive, if there was no in-game information, if you could be screwed from the start by the RNG? There would be uproar and demanding of refunds.

    Yeah, that's why games like, say, Metroid and Castlevania were commercial failures and nobody remembers them anymore.

    Or, say, Elite - if you were (un)lucky, RNG could drop you into a supernova system. There were no Clippy^Win-game tutorials that would pause the game and say "Hey, it seems like system is going super-nova! Press J to do a hyperjump!"

    Those games were _terrible_, you know.

    But Notch and Mojang get a pass because they're "indie".

    No, Notch and Mojang get a pass because Minecraft is fun. As I said earlier, it isn't a game breaker.

    Didn't you oppose to "nerds" claiming that people are playing it "because it's so nerdy" just now? Seems like regardless to being nerdy and indie tons of people are playing it.

  43. Re:Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, ma by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

    How does it even follow from the discussion we're having?..

    Because hard core nerds are promoting Minecraft to non-hardcore when the game is ever more and more designed with the hardcore in mind. Sure, lots of people are playing it... but they're not playing it the way the hardcore say they should be or doing what the hardcore says they should be doing. The hardcore are treating Minecraft as it belongs to them and should be focused on what they want, not the general audience. With every new feature or tweak, Minecraft becomes LESS friendly to beginners and casual players.

    Which part of that doesn't fit in several pages?

    oh the part on how to find an endportal or how to get the eyes you need, or the farm you'll need for food, oh and the stuff you need to make the enchantment table, so you'll need cows, and paper, and you'll want diamond stuff so you'll have to learn to basically do a branch mine down low, and you'll have to build a safe way to get to the end portal, but you'll have to do the nether first of course to get the blaze powder for the Eyes and blaze rod so you can make a brewing stand, and you'll have to build a base in the Nether.

    You'd need about as much experimenting and external sources before you get good enough to play through Elder Scrolls games.

    No, you don't, because the game tells you what you need to know within the game. Oblivion and Skyrim have a whole tutorial dungeon! The Fallout's have something similar. Same goes for other games, Civilization, Final Fantasy, even MMO's have tutorial areas and starter quests.

    Minecraft...has nothing, that might be fine in Creative...but not in Survival. What's worse is that the Xbox 360 has a tutorial, a nice one (you can even get music discs from it)....the PC version doesn't.

    Yeah, that's why games like, say, Metroid and Castlevania were commercial failures and nobody remembers them anymore.

    Actually Metroid was a commercial failure...in Japan. Times were different then, we put up with discoverability issues because of hardware limitations. Note that, however, Super Metroid does give more in-game information with the map, the little "how to use the missles/bombs/scanner" popup. The 3D Metroids have tutorial levels!

    Or, say, Elite - if you were (un)lucky, RNG could drop you into a supernova system.

    insta-death with no chance of prevention is not fun.

    Those games were _terrible_, you know.

    They were games of their times and we put up with the limitations....we expect more and better now. That's one of the reasons I'm a bit hard on Minecraft and Mojang.

    No, Notch and Mojang get a pass because Minecraft is fun.

    It may be fun, but I don't think hardcore nerds should go around promoting it as the be-all and end-all of great games that everyone should play. It's not finished and it needs a LOT more work, and I don't think Mojang should be charging what they do for it. 10 bucks, maybe.

    As I said earlier, it isn't a game breaker.

    That's where we disagree.

  44. Re:Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, ma by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, hardcore gamers scowl at the casuals playing it in creative and peaceful. Meanwhile, people are still buying it and having fun in their own ways.

    It has a steep jump at the beginning of the learning curve, making it hard for casual players. Meanwhile, people are still buying it and having fun in their own ways.

    It is imperfect in many ways and could be better. Meanwhile, people are still buying it and having fun in their own ways.

    Plain fact that people are buying, playing and discussing it tells us that it's not game breaking, and while it might never be "finished", what content IS there is already enough for killing hours upon hours playing it.

    PS:

    It may be fun, but I don't think hardcore nerds should go around promoting it as the be-all and end-all of great games that everyone should play.

    Why not? It's their opinion and they're as entitled to it as you are to your "perfect or trash" point of view. I don't think "hardcore nerds" are such a great marketing force to create a commercial success out of nothing.

  45. Re:Fix Minecraft x 1.6.x sucks donkey balls by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

    I also find the constant need to get XP to repair items is makes minecraft "grindy".

    Make an XP factory then. XP is one of the things you can automate pretty easily.

    Try, e.g. a chicken, a hopper a few droppers and a dispenser. Chicken lays egg, mechanism fires egg, new chick gets added to the pile of chickens. Slow at first but the growth of chickens is exponential. Soon you have limitless chickens to slaughter for XP, food and feathers. Add more hoppers, dispensers and droppers to increase the fun.

    With leads it's pretty easy to go collect a bunch of chickens to get started.

    Once you get that up and running, you will never wander round with less than level 30 enchanted anything.

    Once you have an Efficiency III unbreaking III diamond axe, you'll find you can mine vast swathes before needing to repair it. By then you'll have approximately infinite chickens to kill for XP again.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  46. Re:Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, ma by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

    Meanwhile, people are still buying it and having fun in their own ways.

    Maybe. What I would like to know is how many casuals bought it at full price at the urging of a more technical friend, played it a couple of times...and then never played it again.

    I just don't think the "hardcore Minecraft nerds" should have or be evangelizing the game so much when it's designed with them in mind, not everyone else. As I said, it's like Nethack, some hardcore nerds think it's the greatest game ever...everyone else...not so much. At least with Nethack, one doesn't have to pay $27 for it, and that makes a difference.

    I don't think "hardcore nerds" are such a great marketing force to create a commercial success out of nothing.

    Really? Considering all it took was a bunch of influential nerds in the gaming/tech press and Minecraft got a ton of free publicity when it was still in Alpha!. Slashdot, Kotaku, Game magazines, you name it.

    It's not that I don't enjoy Minecraft, I do, it's just that I consider it a seriously flawed game that would be even MORE enjoyable if it was ever "finished and polished" like a "real" game is. Heck even Nethack has been essentially "done". which hasn't stopped the "hardcore" from whining that Nethack is too easy and creating even MORE complex and difficult variants.

  47. Re:Not a big deal. Well, except the community part by Windwraith · · Score: 0

    I find it ironic how this exact action, for people that is not "famous", tends to be considered weak and pathetic.
    There are a ton of struggling developers out there that nobody will ever pay attention to. Nobody will play (I say play, not even "buy") their games even if they are good simply because they don't have fame.
    And this guy, is on the top of the food chain, and just quits, just like that? If nothing else, that's a pretty bad example to give aspiring gamedevs.

  48. Re:Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, ma by tolkienfan · · Score: 1

    I have 3 kids that play with many friends.
    They play survival about half the time.
    Sometimes they like to build.
    Hell, I've built stuff and my kids added on to it.
    Not everyone is like you.

  49. Re:Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, ma by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Quit whining.

  50. Re:Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, ma by tolkienfan · · Score: 1

    My 10 year old girls aren't what anyone would call hard core gamers. But they both love playing.
    I want to know why it bothers you that others like it.
    You have a problem.

  51. Re:0x10c == 268 by Teancum · · Score: 2

    I doubt it was a lack of ideas on what to do with the game. The problem was that almost everything he did was essentially a re-creation of Minecraft, simply set in space. Trying to get away from Minecraft, voxels, and stuff like the Minecraft work bench just proved to be too hard to get away from, particular when his goal was for a similar kind of open-ended game that players could build stuff in.

    Supposedly he worked on a spacecraft interior design tool (different from the block placement tool he worked on earlier), and the physics engine in the demo looked pretty good. Some parts were clearly superior to anything done in Minecraft.

  52. Re:Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, ma by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

    My 10 year old girls aren't what anyone would call hard core gamers. But they both love playing.

    I have no doubt that they do enjoy playing...but how do they play? Creative? Peaceful? Need I remind you that you are posting on Slashdot..you probably taught them the tips and tricks. YOU are their Manual and Strategy guide and probably the guy who mods their game for them. Most Minecraft players don't have a direct mentor. In other words, your situation is not the norm.

    I want to know why it bothers you that others like it.

    It doesn't bother me that people like it, I don't know where you're getting that idea. I just think that:

    1. Mojang needs to finish the game and do the final polish that other games get. No more features. Finish it, move on to something else. Game dev isn't like doing some web browser or email client, programmer-hour resources are finite...games need to be "finished".

    2. The cult of Indie-dev/Notch worship has let Mojang and Notch get away with crap no other game developer could. Which means I think people should hold Mojang and other indie-devs to the same standards they do to "non-indie" developers like Blizzard, Square-Enix, Insomniac, Atlus, Nippon Ichi, Bethesda, Bioware, Firaxis, Valve, 2K. Gamers deserve better.

    You don't think there's a cult of Notch worship? Look at your response and others,

    You have a problem

    It's like I kicked your cats and took your candy. "Someone dares to criticize our Developer God Notch, Mojang and Minecraft! Send forth the hounds."

    It's a game, not a religion, a game that needs more work. Even adding a version of the 360's version's tutorial to the PC version would be a good start.

  53. Re:Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, ma by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

    Not everyone is like you.

    pot, kettle, black

    They play with many friends? Does that mean you set up and host your own minecraft server?

    Not everyone is a nerd like you.

  54. Re:Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, ma by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You mean like Final Fantasy XI?

    If it's that much of an issue don't play.

  55. The popularity is due to the mods. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Minecraft really ends pretty quickly not only for the purposes CronoCloud talks about, but also because there's so very little to do, little purpose to play single player when you've had diamond kit and enough spare diamonds to make it all again.

    NEI (and TMI before) gave you the recipies.

    Many mods give you a "magic book" that explains how to start with their mod.

    But mostly the plethora of mods give you things to play about until much later. When you've got a bank of HV Solar Arrays and full Iridium Armour or the complete Gem set and Red Matter tools, then the game ends unless you start serving for friends and show off the new universe.

    Without mods, the game's worth about a fiver.

  56. Re:Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, ma by tolkienfan · · Score: 1

    I only played after they did.
    I've totalled maybe an hour on it. I ask *them* how to achieve stuff.
    I honestly don't know what you think needs fixing.

    Yeah - in another post I said they play on survival and creative, depending how they feel, who they're playing with, etc.

    You are totally obsessed with this, and you're wrong.

  57. Re:Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, ma by tolkienfan · · Score: 1

    *I* worship Notch??
    You are so far off the mark it's not funny.
    Exactly what about my post is evidence of that?

  58. Re:Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, ma by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

    *I* worship Notch??

    "your" and "our" are plural in this instance. Referring to Slashdot and the Minecraft community in general not just you.

  59. Re:Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, ma by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

    I honestly don't know what you think needs fixing.

    What, you didn't see my other comments, or notice the "even adding a version of the 360 versions tutorial would be a start"?

    1. Discoverability in general, there should be more information in the game.

    2. Saddles/horse armor should be craftable...It's Mine"Craft" not Mine"slog-your-way-to-a-stronghold-and-hope-the-RNG-put-some-in-a-chest"

    3. Regional Difficulty should be made Hardcore Mode only or removed...it doesn't do what it's intended on doing and punishes less hardcore players.

    4. The same goes for the new zombie mechanics with their spawning, range of view and behavior.

    5. Debuff the Skellys, it's Minecraft, not "Skelly Killer Xtreme"

    Here's some posts on the forum, not by me, that pretty much summarizes my view as well:

    http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1872524-minecraft-16-zombie-aggro-range/page__st__20#entry23162816

    http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1872524-minecraft-16-zombie-aggro-range/page__st__20#entry23168504

    http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1872524-minecraft-16-zombie-aggro-range/page__st__40#entry23191748

    http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1873484-since-when-is-minecraft-a-constant-onslaught-of-zombies/page__st__40#entry23169808

    http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1873484-since-when-is-minecraft-a-constant-onslaught-of-zombies/page__st__40#entry23171882

    http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1873484-since-when-is-minecraft-a-constant-onslaught-of-zombies/page__st__60#entry23182761

    http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1873484-since-when-is-minecraft-a-constant-onslaught-of-zombies/page__st__60#entry23188557

    http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1873484-since-when-is-minecraft-a-constant-onslaught-of-zombies/page__st__60#entry23190803

    You are totally obsessed with this, and you're wrong.

    I'm wrong for daring to criticize Minecraft? I'm wrong for thinking the game needs "finishing and polish"? I'm wrong for thinking that Mojang shouldn't be charging $27 for what is still essentially a Beta?

  60. Re:Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, ma by tolkienfan · · Score: 1

    You're not wrong for criticizing, you're wrong for criticizing on everyone else's behalf.
            "I think the real question is "how are people actually playing the game" I'm seeing signs that the majority of non-hardcore players are simply using creative or playing on peaceful."
    Why do you care how anyone else plays the game?

            "Because some nerds are using "oh minecraft is so popular and it's because it's so nerdy and has redstone circuitry etc etc"...when it's not."
    Don't know where you got this from. Plenty of people play, of all ages. Nerdy and not nerdy. Peaceful/survival/creative. Still don't know why you're trying to be a spokesperson for everyone else.

            "But Notch and Mojang get a pass because they're "indie". I'm sorry, but I think Indie devs should be held to the same standards Square-Enix, Bethesda, Bioware, Blizzard, etc etc are."
    This is nonsense: my kids don't even know what indie means.

            "Sure, lots of people are playing it... but they're not playing it the way the hardcore say they should be or doing what the hardcore says they should be doing."
    Who are you to say what other people *should* be doing?

            "It may be fun, but I don't think hardcore nerds should go around promoting it as the be-all and end-all of great games that everyone should play. It's not finished and it needs a LOT more work, and I don't think Mojang should be charging what they do for it. 10 bucks, maybe."
    Again with telling others what they should be doing. And you think it's priced wrong. Don't buy it, or ask for your money back.

    Quit telling us we should be doing this or that or we paid too much for an unfinished game.

  61. Re:Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, ma by tolkienfan · · Score: 1

    They found bunches of servers online, by themselves.
    And you don't need to set up a server to play with others. They do direct connect when they aren't connecting to servers.

  62. Adventure Box Probably Back to Guild Wars 2 on Sep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    According to some dataminers, the Adventure Box may return to Guild Wars 2 next month. Take a look at the image and information below. You can also participate in the conversation on Reddit about it.

    “The new preview picture for the next update is up and its pretty clearly Adventure Box themed. Looks like Anet has stopped naming the image the acronym for the update's name and instead replaced it with '09082013', which I imagine is the date of its release (September 8th, 2013).”

    gameguyz

  63. Look, Disney Princesses Come to the World of Stree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Believe your eyes. That’s a Chun Li x Cinderella mash-up. Take a look at Mike V’s artworks below which show us how Disney princesses look when they come to the world of Street Fighters.

    Not all of these are Street Fighter characters, but, check 'em out. Pay attention to the stances, which are the main nods to what fighting game character they're mashed up with (but sometimes you see it in other subtle details).P

    gameguyz