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Notch Shelves Space Game 0x10c, Cites Pressure, Desire To Work On Small Projects
Sockatume writes "Marcus 'Notch' Persson of Minecraft fame has indefinitely postponed his planned space game, 0x10c. Taking time to chat during a streamed TF2 game, Notch explained that he didn't have the energy to keep up with the community's interest; fans had gone so far as to transcribe the source code from his development livestream. The game's development had been stalled since April this year, when Notch explained that it simply wasn't fun to play, but other staff at Mojang can resume the project if they wish. He intends to continue his pre-Minecraft habits and 'make small games and talk to other game developers about them'."
minecraft - hands off in alpha
0x10c, hands-off in planning phase
It would be nice to see you see something through.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
It's cool that he is handing it off to the community, but other than that -- there isn't much of a story here. Developers -- especially game developers -- prototype ideas and work on them for months all the time. Ultimately, they often result in nothing. Things don't work. Technology isn't there yet. The userbase shows no interest. Or, probably most often, the developer just loses their passion for that project/prototype and moves on to something else. Notch could go through twenty of these before he finally lands on something that he feels passionate about for the long-haul.
Given that he's made his millions doing Minecraft - it's quite possible for him to do whatever the hell he wants on his own schedule and not give a flying pig's bum about getting anything finished. ...more time to work on that minecraft sculpture of a giant (CENSORED)
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
Be nice to see you accomplish a fraction of what he has ("big talker/armchair qb" that you are by comparison).
Something I see often about developers and most developers know for themselves.
The first 30% to 60% of a project - especially if you are not simply tying frameworks together but creating most things from scratch - are fun. People work overtime without even knowing it. As soon as the tiresome stuff starts, and the mostly painfull/dull last 5% to 10%, motivation drops.
Then it's a question of wether it's a private or semi-private project or something that HAS to be finished.
Sadly, many (unexperienced) developers tend to give their timeframe projections during those first "proof-of-concept" days or weeks, and then become even more frustrated when they realize they can't hold the deadline and everything becomes even more painful.
I think most of us have been there. And since 0x10c was a very "special" idea from the beginning, I am not as surprised as I though I would have been that the project is shelved.
At least he admits that it simply wasn't fun...not an easy thing to do when you speak about your own pet-project.
It's been labeled 1.0 and even released on disc for a closed platform. This makes it "finished" by at least some objective standards. Was Quake III Arena for Mac and Windows not finished while it was still getting patches? Are Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 games "not finished" while they're still getting DLC? Was Doki Doki Panic for Famicom Disk System "not finished" because Nintendo revised it into Super Mario Bros. 2: Mario Madness for NES, Super Mario All-Stars for Super NES, and Super Mario Advance for Game Boy Advance, adding more than a straight port each time?
Taking time to chat during a streamed TF2 game...
:D
Well there's the problem right there.
It kills me how people complain about how in a hurry they are and how they never have the time to do anything, and they never connect it with the fact that they're always gaming.
Karma going down in 3...2...1...
Fortune: System going down in 5 minutes.
He heavily promotes a new project, even live streams his coding of it, then quits because people are paying too much attention to it. WTF. If you don't want anyone paying any attention to your projects, don't live stream the coding of it. Just don't talk about it, and release it when its done.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Except that when your own company develops video games, gaming is more like researching a competitor's product or service.
Arithmetic exception, game over
0x10c = 268; // A play on 286, or 80286
I think he's a great example of an indie dev.
He's made one huge success. Let him live off it. He doesn't /have/ to keep producing games for us. It's great that he was so successful and I wish him the best. Maybe one day he'll return to 0x10c, or think of something new. It's wonderful that he has that sort of leisure. And it's awesome that he hasn't just shoved the code for 01x10c in a (virtual) drawer somewhere; he's letting others on his team keep working on it.
Frankly, 0x10c never sounded that interesting to me so I'm not that upset about it. I'm sure it would have sold well, but more because of its connection to Minecraft than because of its inherent value. That Notch can step back and look at the project and say, "ehn" is encouraging; it shows his focus is on the love of the game and not just about the money. Isn't that what we love about independent developers over the mass-produced pablum coming out of the big publishers?
So good for you, Notch. Do what you want and even if you never produce another title, Minecraft will remain an awesome legacy and your success helped pave the way for thousands of other independents.
Scrolls is currently Mac and PC only, it looks great https://scrolls.com/ There is a indication that it will be coming soon http://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/mojangs-scrolls-is-coming-to-linux-soon.2135 although personally I am not holding my breath. Fortunately Linux isn't short of games anymore.
There are quite a few games already well on their way to completion that are generally similar to the publicized ideas for 0x10c:
... and then there's Star Citizen, of course; a cross between Freelancer and Wing Commander - but you'll need to wait a while.
Blockade Runner will feature "fully destructible, operational, crewable 'living' starships in a procedurally generated galaxy".
https://blockaderunnergame.com/home.aspx
Shores of Hazeron is a first-person 4X-style game featuring fully-customizable spacecraft, city building and management, exploration, trade, combat, and more. It's playable right now, though it's under heavy development.
http://hazeron.com/
http://robertsspaceindustries.com/
I have never known a creative type who didn't get frustrated with projects when people were getting up in their face about what they were working on. So I guess I don't feel much reason to complain here. Yeah, he sort of caused it, but lots of people make that mistake a few times before getting the hang of it.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
no.. what he means with small games is games that could actually work as games with finite development time.
the concept was unrealistic(as a nice game) and the kind of concept you get if you smoke weed with some nerds who don't actually code.
the released video footage on the other hand seems to have 0% to do with the concept.
so.. there we have it.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Open-source game "inspired by 0x10c: http://trillek.org/
If there's one thing I learned from the film Don't Tell Mom the Babysitter's Dead, it's "delegate, delegate, delegate." If you know you're not the right kind of person to finish a project, then bring in someone else who is. Baseball likewise has a concept of a closing pitcher who specializes in finishing games.
I love all the opinions being tossed about by folks that are butthurt someone else couldn't complete something.
If you're all so much better at getting things done than Notch, own it and write your own space game. Otherwise, quit complaining someone else decided not to do the work for you.
The number is 0x10^c..... note the exponent.
Not that it matters much any more, but the number is a fair bit larger.
Wanting to code what he wants to code, and how. What a dick.
My bad. I am ashamed.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Dear god no. If Notch went back to writing Minecraft I would probably stop getting updates for it. At least Jeb can actually follow through with implementing new features that are at least moderately interesting and not just adding rare half-heart cooking recipies to the game which do ultimately nothing.
I will give you the new launcher is a steaming pile of pig vomit, but it is merely the first iteration.
Don't forget Rodina http://elliptic-games.com/
Nobodies Prefect
Tidbits for Techs Technology Blog
It makes no sense that horse armour can't be crafted. I hope they change it. The new launcher is a step in the right direction - upgrades were a killer for bukkit servers since you couldn't play them after a client game (until the server also upgraded). Now at least you have a fairly straight-forward way to play on servers running older software. I wish horses could be summoned like on World of Warcraft. In their current form your horse is basically locked to a continent unless you want to build a massive bridge to get somewhere else. Horses also wander off too quickly. Can't even cut down a tree without having to go and chase it down. I also find the constant need to get XP to repair items is makes minecraft "grindy". I use my tools/weapons to gather resources and the XP I get is enough to keep them repaired, but more often not enough left to enchant new tools.
To be fair Elite wasn't much of a game either, but it was still an awesome way to spend your time.
No Elite was a lot of game. http://www.oolite.org/ current remake.
Notch is just back-burnering the project. Heck, he's got 281,474,976,712,643 years to go.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
The premise of the game was that someone set the "sleep time" on his cold sleep device but got the byte order wrong and was sent so far forward in time that the universe is almost completely through its lifecycle and is deep into the heat death. Of course that was preliminary, he never developed the storyline much.
Most of the focus seemed to be on the in-game computer thing, which was neat but Notch never seemed to have a very good idea what he wanted to do with the rest of the game. I think he lost interest when he couldn't figure out a way to make it a game.
I read the internet for the articles.
He's currently fubaring it with making it impossible to stay still whilst not helping with a nomadic lifestyle
Regional Difficulty? That's Jeb's fault, not Notches.
You know that's another thing, with no other game company do we refer to their programmers with cute little "nicks" It's almost a
"indie personality cult"
In their current form your horse is basically locked to a continent unless you want to build a massive bridge to get somewhere else.
All you need is a lead and a boat and your horse will waterski behind you.
Horses also wander off too quickly. Can't even cut down a tree without having to go and chase it down.
Use a lead.
I use my tools/weapons to gather resources and the XP I get is enough to keep them repaired, but more often not enough left to enchant new tools.
Build a blaze suffocator.
Tie your horse to a post (you can carry one) then it won't wander away. Geez, just like a real horse. I agree on horse armour, but I don't worry too much about it. I'm much more concerned about the inability to craft saddles. I agree with the horse/boat issue - I don't see a way around that until they code the ability to use larger boats. Mind you, the ability to travel endlessly without suffering hunger is a huge boon to those of us who play on hardcore mode. Whining about the inability to craft a specialty armour that only aids your horse (a renewable resourse) against attacks that are completely avoidable is rather petty.
If only we could fall into a woman's arms without falling into her hands
Simply put, Minecraft is badly designed because it's been changed to suit the tastes of the "hardcore players" whining on the Forums, not the general more casual players that made Mojang their money.
I did a comment about that problem recently, it doesn't only affect Minecraft:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4097867&cid=44588611
It makes no sense that horse armour can't be crafted. I hope they change it.
Or saddles so that one can actually ride the horses.
Horses also wander off too quickly.
That's what leashes/leads are for. Slap down a fence, and leash them to it. Yeah it means taking up a valuable inventory slot with a fence. (Really, they should up inventory size)
I also find the constant need to get XP to repair items is makes minecraft "grindy". I use my tools/weapons to gather resources and the XP I get is enough to keep them repaired, but more often not enough left to enchant new tools.
Apparently it's more efficient to use non-magical tools and replace as they break, saving your magic stuff for specific purposes. Or else you're expected to make your own XP grinder, which is, of course, "hardcore stuff that is hard for casuals to do"
The world is full of games/apps/products that the creator SHOULD have shelved and didn't. At least he's honest enough with his own motivations. Notch gets a pass from me to do whatever the hell he wants. Whether he got 'lucky' with Minecraft, whether it's finished or not, whether he has no attention span, none of it matters. Minecraft has been a source of laughter, anger, joy, excitement, and wonder to me and my son since around 1.1. We even scored Minecon tickets for November.
Not to say those are not valid complaints, but the popularity suggests those are not game breakers and don't ruin the fun for most of those who play it.
The reason MP Minecraft is popular is not "but someone has to watch the crops!", it's "I can build a farm while he builds a redstone Rube Goldberg machine and somebody else goes exploring the caves, and then we can show it off to each other and then all build a transport system to tie it all together".
Sheer space of things you could do is the fun part, not the things you can't.
PS: Oh, and I like reading the wiki, just to find out what others found and thought up. Should Mojang include a five page tutorial on basic redstone logic and then a dozen pages more on advanced ways to apply it?
but the popularity suggests those are not game breakers and don't ruin the fun for most of those who play it.
I think the real question is "how are people actually playing the game" I'm seeing signs that the majority of non-hardcore players are simply using creative or playing on peaceful.
Sheer space of things you could do is the fun part, not the things you can't.
True, but how do you find out what you "can" do? You use the wiki.
Oh, and I like reading the wiki, just to find out what others found and thought up. Should Mojang include a five page tutorial on basic redstone logic and then a dozen pages more on advanced ways to apply it?
When you play Civilization, what does the game have built into it? The Civilopedia! Even Civilization Revolution has it! Tells you everything you need to know to play the game.
Making a blaze farm is kind of a PITA. First of all you have to find a damn fortress. Then fight through it to actually find a spawner and then deactivate it, build your trap around it, build some transport to get back and forth, make that transport immune to randomly spawning zombie pigmen, and on and on. It's a PITA, but ultimately worth it I guess for the fast enchanting.
Personally I don't usually bother with blazes for a long time. I build a sky trap based on Monkeyfarm's triangular platform farm. That is usually plenty good enough.
You really don't need to make gobs of enchanted equipment anyways. Once you have a good tool you don't have to repair it, just use it to enchant a new item. That method is much cheaper exp wise.
Yes I know there's games for Linux, I run Linux myself
Then you have been sleeping. The games revolution has already happened. Windows in now an afterthought. Its a new world.
Aaaand it's bad and wrong... how?
Because some nerds are using "oh minecraft is so popular and it's because it's so nerdy and has redstone circuitry etc etc"...when it's not.
You could condense knowledge of what's needed to get to Minecraft's endgame in several pages
Really? Considering what people recommend one does/has BEFORE doing that...I think not. Potions of this, potions of that High level enchanted stuff, not counting you have to find an end portal and have eyes of ender to activate it.
Again, that's wrong... how?
Because no other game is that dependent on external sources of information. Even Nethack, which is hardcore-nerdy and very inaccessible to non-nerds, has the Oracle.
What would happen if a Final Fantasy or Bethesda game had no tutorial, if the controls weren't intuitive, if there was no in-game information, if you could be screwed from the start by the RNG? There would be uproar and demanding of refunds.
But Notch and Mojang get a pass because they're "indie". I'm sorry, but I think Indie devs should be held to the same standards Square-Enix, Bethesda, Bioware, Blizzard, etc etc are.
What fantasy world are you living in and what the hell are you smoking? Windows...an afterthought? Can I buy a Linux native version of:
A world where we now are hitting 6 Android consoles...quoting old games(I like my games cross platform anyway) is not going to change that. I am currently sporting an Ouya + Xperia Play + Gnu Linux running steam (I'll be honest I'm struggling to play through all the humble bundles)
How does it even follow from the discussion we're having?..
Because hard core nerds are promoting Minecraft to non-hardcore when the game is ever more and more designed with the hardcore in mind. Sure, lots of people are playing it... but they're not playing it the way the hardcore say they should be or doing what the hardcore says they should be doing. The hardcore are treating Minecraft as it belongs to them and should be focused on what they want, not the general audience. With every new feature or tweak, Minecraft becomes LESS friendly to beginners and casual players.
Which part of that doesn't fit in several pages?
oh the part on how to find an endportal or how to get the eyes you need, or the farm you'll need for food, oh and the stuff you need to make the enchantment table, so you'll need cows, and paper, and you'll want diamond stuff so you'll have to learn to basically do a branch mine down low, and you'll have to build a safe way to get to the end portal, but you'll have to do the nether first of course to get the blaze powder for the Eyes and blaze rod so you can make a brewing stand, and you'll have to build a base in the Nether.
You'd need about as much experimenting and external sources before you get good enough to play through Elder Scrolls games.
No, you don't, because the game tells you what you need to know within the game. Oblivion and Skyrim have a whole tutorial dungeon! The Fallout's have something similar. Same goes for other games, Civilization, Final Fantasy, even MMO's have tutorial areas and starter quests.
Minecraft...has nothing, that might be fine in Creative...but not in Survival. What's worse is that the Xbox 360 has a tutorial, a nice one (you can even get music discs from it)....the PC version doesn't.
Yeah, that's why games like, say, Metroid and Castlevania were commercial failures and nobody remembers them anymore.
Actually Metroid was a commercial failure...in Japan. Times were different then, we put up with discoverability issues because of hardware limitations. Note that, however, Super Metroid does give more in-game information with the map, the little "how to use the missles/bombs/scanner" popup. The 3D Metroids have tutorial levels!
Or, say, Elite - if you were (un)lucky, RNG could drop you into a supernova system.
insta-death with no chance of prevention is not fun.
Those games were _terrible_, you know.
They were games of their times and we put up with the limitations....we expect more and better now. That's one of the reasons I'm a bit hard on Minecraft and Mojang.
No, Notch and Mojang get a pass because Minecraft is fun.
It may be fun, but I don't think hardcore nerds should go around promoting it as the be-all and end-all of great games that everyone should play. It's not finished and it needs a LOT more work, and I don't think Mojang should be charging what they do for it. 10 bucks, maybe.
As I said earlier, it isn't a game breaker.
That's where we disagree.
I also find the constant need to get XP to repair items is makes minecraft "grindy".
Make an XP factory then. XP is one of the things you can automate pretty easily.
Try, e.g. a chicken, a hopper a few droppers and a dispenser. Chicken lays egg, mechanism fires egg, new chick gets added to the pile of chickens. Slow at first but the growth of chickens is exponential. Soon you have limitless chickens to slaughter for XP, food and feathers. Add more hoppers, dispensers and droppers to increase the fun.
With leads it's pretty easy to go collect a bunch of chickens to get started.
Once you get that up and running, you will never wander round with less than level 30 enchanted anything.
Once you have an Efficiency III unbreaking III diamond axe, you'll find you can mine vast swathes before needing to repair it. By then you'll have approximately infinite chickens to kill for XP again.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Meanwhile, people are still buying it and having fun in their own ways.
Maybe. What I would like to know is how many casuals bought it at full price at the urging of a more technical friend, played it a couple of times...and then never played it again.
I just don't think the "hardcore Minecraft nerds" should have or be evangelizing the game so much when it's designed with them in mind, not everyone else. As I said, it's like Nethack, some hardcore nerds think it's the greatest game ever...everyone else...not so much. At least with Nethack, one doesn't have to pay $27 for it, and that makes a difference.
I don't think "hardcore nerds" are such a great marketing force to create a commercial success out of nothing.
Really? Considering all it took was a bunch of influential nerds in the gaming/tech press and Minecraft got a ton of free publicity when it was still in Alpha!. Slashdot, Kotaku, Game magazines, you name it.
It's not that I don't enjoy Minecraft, I do, it's just that I consider it a seriously flawed game that would be even MORE enjoyable if it was ever "finished and polished" like a "real" game is. Heck even Nethack has been essentially "done". which hasn't stopped the "hardcore" from whining that Nethack is too easy and creating even MORE complex and difficult variants.
I have 3 kids that play with many friends.
They play survival about half the time.
Sometimes they like to build.
Hell, I've built stuff and my kids added on to it.
Not everyone is like you.
Don't forget Toady One.
http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
My 10 year old girls aren't what anyone would call hard core gamers. But they both love playing.
I want to know why it bothers you that others like it.
You have a problem.
I doubt it was a lack of ideas on what to do with the game. The problem was that almost everything he did was essentially a re-creation of Minecraft, simply set in space. Trying to get away from Minecraft, voxels, and stuff like the Minecraft work bench just proved to be too hard to get away from, particular when his goal was for a similar kind of open-ended game that players could build stuff in.
Supposedly he worked on a spacecraft interior design tool (different from the block placement tool he worked on earlier), and the physics engine in the demo looked pretty good. Some parts were clearly superior to anything done in Minecraft.
My 10 year old girls aren't what anyone would call hard core gamers. But they both love playing.
I have no doubt that they do enjoy playing...but how do they play? Creative? Peaceful? Need I remind you that you are posting on Slashdot..you probably taught them the tips and tricks. YOU are their Manual and Strategy guide and probably the guy who mods their game for them. Most Minecraft players don't have a direct mentor. In other words, your situation is not the norm.
I want to know why it bothers you that others like it.
It doesn't bother me that people like it, I don't know where you're getting that idea. I just think that:
1. Mojang needs to finish the game and do the final polish that other games get. No more features. Finish it, move on to something else. Game dev isn't like doing some web browser or email client, programmer-hour resources are finite...games need to be "finished".
2. The cult of Indie-dev/Notch worship has let Mojang and Notch get away with crap no other game developer could. Which means I think people should hold Mojang and other indie-devs to the same standards they do to "non-indie" developers like Blizzard, Square-Enix, Insomniac, Atlus, Nippon Ichi, Bethesda, Bioware, Firaxis, Valve, 2K. Gamers deserve better.
You don't think there's a cult of Notch worship? Look at your response and others,
You have a problem
It's like I kicked your cats and took your candy. "Someone dares to criticize our Developer God Notch, Mojang and Minecraft! Send forth the hounds."
It's a game, not a religion, a game that needs more work. Even adding a version of the 360's version's tutorial to the PC version would be a good start.
Not everyone is like you.
pot, kettle, black
They play with many friends? Does that mean you set up and host your own minecraft server?
Not everyone is a nerd like you.
I only played after they did.
I've totalled maybe an hour on it. I ask *them* how to achieve stuff.
I honestly don't know what you think needs fixing.
Yeah - in another post I said they play on survival and creative, depending how they feel, who they're playing with, etc.
You are totally obsessed with this, and you're wrong.
*I* worship Notch??
You are so far off the mark it's not funny.
Exactly what about my post is evidence of that?
*I* worship Notch??
"your" and "our" are plural in this instance. Referring to Slashdot and the Minecraft community in general not just you.
I honestly don't know what you think needs fixing.
What, you didn't see my other comments, or notice the "even adding a version of the 360 versions tutorial would be a start"?
1. Discoverability in general, there should be more information in the game.
2. Saddles/horse armor should be craftable...It's Mine"Craft" not Mine"slog-your-way-to-a-stronghold-and-hope-the-RNG-put-some-in-a-chest"
3. Regional Difficulty should be made Hardcore Mode only or removed...it doesn't do what it's intended on doing and punishes less hardcore players.
4. The same goes for the new zombie mechanics with their spawning, range of view and behavior.
5. Debuff the Skellys, it's Minecraft, not "Skelly Killer Xtreme"
Here's some posts on the forum, not by me, that pretty much summarizes my view as well:
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1872524-minecraft-16-zombie-aggro-range/page__st__20#entry23162816
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1872524-minecraft-16-zombie-aggro-range/page__st__20#entry23168504
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1872524-minecraft-16-zombie-aggro-range/page__st__40#entry23191748
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1873484-since-when-is-minecraft-a-constant-onslaught-of-zombies/page__st__40#entry23169808
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1873484-since-when-is-minecraft-a-constant-onslaught-of-zombies/page__st__40#entry23171882
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1873484-since-when-is-minecraft-a-constant-onslaught-of-zombies/page__st__60#entry23182761
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1873484-since-when-is-minecraft-a-constant-onslaught-of-zombies/page__st__60#entry23188557
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1873484-since-when-is-minecraft-a-constant-onslaught-of-zombies/page__st__60#entry23190803
You are totally obsessed with this, and you're wrong.
I'm wrong for daring to criticize Minecraft? I'm wrong for thinking the game needs "finishing and polish"? I'm wrong for thinking that Mojang shouldn't be charging $27 for what is still essentially a Beta?
You're not wrong for criticizing, you're wrong for criticizing on everyone else's behalf.
"I think the real question is "how are people actually playing the game" I'm seeing signs that the majority of non-hardcore players are simply using creative or playing on peaceful."
Why do you care how anyone else plays the game?
"Because some nerds are using "oh minecraft is so popular and it's because it's so nerdy and has redstone circuitry etc etc"...when it's not."
Don't know where you got this from. Plenty of people play, of all ages. Nerdy and not nerdy. Peaceful/survival/creative. Still don't know why you're trying to be a spokesperson for everyone else.
"But Notch and Mojang get a pass because they're "indie". I'm sorry, but I think Indie devs should be held to the same standards Square-Enix, Bethesda, Bioware, Blizzard, etc etc are."
This is nonsense: my kids don't even know what indie means.
"Sure, lots of people are playing it... but they're not playing it the way the hardcore say they should be or doing what the hardcore says they should be doing."
Who are you to say what other people *should* be doing?
"It may be fun, but I don't think hardcore nerds should go around promoting it as the be-all and end-all of great games that everyone should play. It's not finished and it needs a LOT more work, and I don't think Mojang should be charging what they do for it. 10 bucks, maybe."
Again with telling others what they should be doing. And you think it's priced wrong. Don't buy it, or ask for your money back.
Quit telling us we should be doing this or that or we paid too much for an unfinished game.
They found bunches of servers online, by themselves.
And you don't need to set up a server to play with others. They do direct connect when they aren't connecting to servers.