Netflix Comes To Linux Web Browsers Via 'Pipelight'

An anonymous reader writes "With Netflix continuing to rely upon Microsoft Silverlight, the video streaming service hasn't been supported for Linux users as the Mono-based 'Moonlight' implementation goes without Silverlight 5 DRM support. However, there is now Netflix support for Linux-based web-browsers via the open source Pipelight project. Pipelight supports Netflix and other Silverlight-based web applications by having a Netscape plug-in that in turn communicates with a Windows program running under Wine. The Windows program then simulates a browser to load the Silverlight libraries. Netflix then works as the Pipelight developers implemented support for the Netflix DRM scheme within Wine."

Comments

I'll pass

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not important enough for me to have to do this. I know my market share isn't big enough to matter to Netflix but still.

Re:I'll pass

[Anonymous Coward]

I know my market share isn't big enough to matter to Netflix but still.

Yeah, I'm an Australian, so I don't have a horse in this race anyway, but I'm curious.

What does Netflix have that would make it worth messing with my Linux box like this? It's just streaming video, isn't it?

Re:I'll pass

[DrXym]

Yes it's streamed and it's DRM'd. It's basically back catalogue films and TV shows. There is a lot of dross in there, although there are a things worth watching too. Most of it has little commercial value which is presumably why it's on Netflix - they probably pay out pennies to rights holders for streaming it.

I expect Netflix has no choice but to DRM the content as part of its contractual obligations and therefore any platform which does not provide a suitably strong DRM cannot be supported.

In any event Netflix is one of the stakeholders in the encrypted media extensions for HTML 5, so potentially at least one Linux browser, be it Chrome or Firefox could potentially be blessed to stream on Linux one day.

Re:I'll pass

[Mathinker]

> so potentially at least one Linux browser, be it Chrome or Firefox could potentially be blessed to stream on Linux one day

No, no, surprised little boy, in a red poofball hat, don't be sucked in!
DRM-ed streaming on Linux will bring with it a thousand years of evil!

You wouldn't want a browser with glowing red eyes now, would you?

Re:I'll pass

[DrXym]

I couldn't give a fig really. This article was talking about running a shim to a proprietary silverlight plugin to obtain streaming video. Before that Linux had to use a proprietary Flash player. Using a browser which has some binary DRM is of little matter to me. Netflix and other streaming content providers have to use DRM and simply won't support a platform if there is no way to economically achieve it.

Re:I'll pass

[killerzax]

I expect Netflix has no choice but to DRM the content as part of its contractual obligations and therefore any platform which does not provide a suitably strong DRM cannot be supported.

What's funny is Chrome OS works with Netflix despite not having Silverlight as well as being a Linux flavor. Oh, and Amazon has DRM but somehow they support Linux for their Instant Video service. So it has nothing to do with the platform as more Netflix is just shit.

Re:I'll pass

[Mathinker]

Jesus! (Satan?) I didn't think the Slashdot "whoosh" sound required DRM to be enabled ... what has this world come to?

Re:I'll pass

[Anonymous Coward]

Did anyone else read his username as a man (XY) in the middle of DRM?

Re:I'll pass

[DrXym]

Yes it's all so obvious now. I'm part of a vast conspiracy.

Re:I'll pass

[centipedes.in.my.vag]

A conspiracy with limited platform support.

Convoluted

[Anonymous Coward]

This is way more complicated than it needs to be. I'll just watch Netflix on my PS3, thanks.

Re:Convoluted

[dreamchaser]

Yes, this is rather silly. I use my PS3, Tivo, and my Asus Transformer. They all work just fine with Netflix.

Re:Convoluted

[Shark]

Makes me wonder... I somehow doubt that the PS3, Tivo or Asus Transformer have Silverlight so the DRM itself likely isn't a Silverlight exclusive. Why aren't there smart people foaming at the mouth to reverse-engineer that stuff? I guess Netflix is mostly a US service and countries where doing such reverse-engineering isn't illegal have no incentive? There are already plenty of people working on Blueray DRM and what not, I can't see this being as complicated.

Re:Convoluted

[MightyYar]

Anyone who is frustrated that they can't watch for-pay TV streaming is probably not doing a lot of hacking apart DRM algorithms. If it was a free encrypted stream they'd be all over it, just for the challenge.

Re:Convoluted

[Camael]

Makes me wonder... I somehow doubt that the PS3, Tivo or Asus Transformer have Silverlight so the DRM itself likely isn't a Silverlight exclusive. Why aren't there smart people foaming at the mouth to reverse-engineer that stuff? I guess Netflix is mostly a US service and countries where doing such reverse-engineering isn't illegal have no incentive?

More likely because you can already get the shows Netflix has by DLding, without depending on Netflix as the source.

Re:Convoluted

[Anonymous Coward]

But you're ignoring the fact that other people just aren't as complacent as you. Some developers out there try to do things just to prove to themselves that they can. Netflix has already announced they're working on moving to HTML5 and even Microsoft has publicly shown its lack of substantive support for Silverlight as a long term technology so Pipelight is just a neat project that addresses a long-standing issue for a lot of Linux users, even if it is just a relatively short-lived one.
So ignoring all the smug, self-absorbed comments, I think it's very notable.

Re: Convoluted

[Ghjnut]

They kind of did. http://www.itworld.com/software/358908/install-netflix-ubuntu-1304 At least it works pretty well for me over here on mint.

Re:Convoluted

[Anonymous Coward]

Cool - what's the url for this "DLing" server? ;-)

Re: Convoluted

[Gaygirlie]

They kind of did.

No, they didn't. That's just running Netflix under Wine, nothing to do with reverse-engineering it.

Re:Convoluted

[dabadab]

http://thepiratebay.sx/

Re: Convoluted

[Anonymous Coward]

Fwiw Html5 will not allow netflix to run on Linux unless the proprietary plugins that are still needed are ported to Linux, which will not happen for the same reason any other such code is never released for Linux.

Next step

[Anonymous Coward]

When Microsoft abandons Silverlight, Windows users will still be able to watch Netflix through Pipelight through Netscape through Wine through Cygwin through, er, I must have missed a few steps or what ?

Re:Next step

[bmo]

When Microsoft abandons Silverlight, Windows users will still be able to watch Netflix through Pipelight through Netscape through Wine through Cygwin through, er, I must have missed a few steps or what ?

Not only that, Netflix is abandoning Silverlight too.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9238421/Netflix_to_dump_Silverlight_Microsoft_s_stalled_technology

So we have....

HTML5 in a container in Silverlight through Flash through Netscape 4.7 running in Wine through Cygwin, through an HP41cx calculator.

--
BMO

Re:Next step

[Neuronwelder]

In Windows 98, I always liked the look of Netscape's Browser. Too bad Microsoft squished them with Internet Explorer.

Re:Next step

[Anonymous Coward]

Seamonkey is close

Re:Next step

[KingMotley]

Microsoft didn't squish Netscape, they did it to themselves. It got slow, bloated, and buggy. People flocked away from it because it was so bad.

Re:Next step

[Megane]

Mozilla is still there, but they renamed it to Seamonkey to make it harder to find.

Re:Next step

[Samantha Wright]

If it's any consolation, "Seamonkey" is actually a compromise with PR:

Seamonkey (with lower-case m) has been the codename for the Mozilla Suite for some time, though it originally was invented by Netscape management as a codename for the release later called Netscape 6 — they simply needed a "politically correct" version of the codename Buttmonkey (symbolised as *~ and making a "rheet" sound) their developers had actually voted for (and apparently Jenga was the run-in in this voting).

(source)

Re:Next step

[aliquis]

When Microsoft abandons Silverlight, Windows users will still be able to watch Netflix through Pipelight through Netscape through Wine through Cygwin through, er, I must have missed a few steps or what ?

Good Netflix got a way to still fetch their data so they can distribute it in some other way! ;D

Re:Next step

[aliquis]

HTML5 in a container in Silverlight through Flash through Netscape 4.7 running in Wine through Cygwin, through an HP41cx calculator.

BUT THAT'S JUST AWESOME!!

Re:Next step

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot "on VM's of Beowulf clusters of Amigas"

Re:Next step

[Anonymous Coward]

Do I need a Beowulf Cluster for that? What a mess.

Re:Next step

[kermidge]

Ah, thanks for that history lesson. I'd wondered about Seamonkey but had always been too lazy or it was too far down the to-do list to ever get to.

Re:Next step

[MachineShedFred]

And the balloon turns on the switch, which makes the fan blow the paper airplane into the domino chain, where the last one falls off the bookshelf onto the mousetrap, which launches the green army man across the room into the basket, which pulls down the string connected to the...

Anyone who calls this a "solution" is fooling themselves.

Re:Next step

[theskipper]

NS was buggy and targeted by MS, both were true back then. Put another way, it was one of Microsoft's easier kills.

Re:Next step

[bmo]

You'd see the middle of the movie before the beginning.

--
BMO - There are good calculators, and then there are calcs that won't do RPN.

Re:Next step

[Anonymous Coward]

So we have....

HTML5 in a container in Silverlight through Flash through Netscape 4.7 running in Wine through Cygwin, through an HP41cx calculator.

--
BMO

Yeah, so take that all you "Linux is too complicated for the average person" people!!!

Re:Next step

[darkgumby]

RPN for the Win!

Re:Next step

[suutar]

shouldn't that be "RPN Win the for"?

Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Boycott Netflix. They don't want the business, don't give them money. Send the message DRM is unacceptable.

Re:Easy solution

[murdocj]

Easy solution: cut off your nose to spite your face.

Re:Easy solution

[Kaenneth]

DRM, in the virtual rental situation is acceptable, I'm not doing anything like purchasing the content, so they get to retain control. In exchange it's pretty cheap for what you get (see also: Steam)

Re:Easy solution

[cheater512]

DRM that doesn't affect your use of the product works just fine. (see also: Steam - They want our money so they went to Linux.)

Re:Easy solution

[Nerdfest]

I'm pretty happy with NetFlix on the devices I can use it on, but I've been thinking about dumping it because of the lack of Linux support. It's very inconvenient using the workarounds (Wine, VMs, etc) as a paying customer. Torrents are looking pretty tempting.

Re:Easy solution

[Arker]

"Easy solution: cut off your nose to spite your face."

Huh? How so?

Their product is not something that is going to get me ahead in any way, it's not something I have to have to survive, or to thrive. It's a source of entertainment. One among many. If they dont want my business I will spend my money elsewhere, simple as that.

Re:Easy solution

[lister king of smeg]

Boycott Netflix. They don't want the business, don't give them money. Send the message DRM is unacceptable.

How exactly is one to boycott those who choose to refuse your business in the first place?

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

DRM, in the virtual rental situation is acceptable

DRM is never acceptable. I'll decide what to do with the bits people send me.

Re:Easy solution

[VortexCortex]

Easy solution: cut off your nose to spite your face.

Correction: This nose smells funny, so detach it and use any of the other ones that work in browsers in Linux. Hulu, for example.

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Awww- no. It's called Google. It works much better than Netflix.

Just enter the following into Google:

[ name of show/move ] site:.ch OR site:.eu

And if for some reason that stops working try:

[ name of show/move ] --.com --.net --.org

Works nearly as well. Your pretty much guaranteed to see results at the very top (first few search result links) with full length shows/movies your looking for. Compared to Netflix which may or may not have what your looking for.

Re:Easy solution

[Jherek Carnelian]

Easy solution: cut off your nose to spite your face.

That's funny, I think going with netflix is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Go with the pirate bay and you get a wider selection, no worries about streaming hiccups and no DRM. All around a better solution.

Re:Easy solution

[Darinbob]

DRM does affect your usage of a product sometimes (see Steam, you buy a game for a high price but then the system acts as if you only rented it). DRM systems should be upfront and honest that you're merely purchasing limited access to content, which is true for streaming television but not true for purchased song files or games or books.

Note also that in the US we've been able for decades to record television programs with the full support of of the Supreme Court. The new DRM streaming forbids this. You can ONLY see the shows as long as you continue subscribing and as long as the publisher allows it. In this sense, the rights that you are granted for streaming video is more like attending a movie theater than watching television. Ie, there is no equivalent of VHS recording in the secured digital video stream.

Just like Steam, the customers happily accept being branded with a hot iron as long as they're also given a carrot. The problem remains the same; most customers are excited to get the new content quickly but have no interest in access to their previously purchased old content.

These all seem like ways to get around the legal system or legal access to content, and ensuring that they have full control at all times. And this is just with their toe in the door, imagine how much further this will be locked down in ten or twenty years if no one objects today. What if George Lucas could have pushed a button and suddenly every single copy of Star Wars in existence was changed to show that Han did not shoot first, and no evidence remained anywhere that it used to be otherwise?

Re:Easy solution

[Mad Merlin]

DRM that doesn't affect your use of the product works just fine.

I'm glad you agree that DRM is never OK.

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

DRM is never acceptable.

Then why are so many people accepting it? Are they being forced to against their will? No they choose to accept it and you will find that there is an enormous amount of people who find DRM acceptable.

Re:Easy solution

[realityimpaired]

Their product is not something that is going to get me ahead in any way, it's not something I have to have to survive, or to thrive. It's a source of entertainment. One among many. If they dont want my business I will spend my money elsewhere, simple as that.

It's something that makes cutting the cord and cancelling your cable/satellite TV subscription significantly easier. While that's not something that you *need*, it is something that's immensely useful to have.

Personally, I consider the $8/mo I pay for Netflix to be well worth it, especially when compared against the cost of a TV subscription. Your own economics may differ. But given the very wide array of devices I have where it works perfectly (including my cell phone, my tablet, and game consoles), I'm quite happy to keep the service, despite the DRM.

It'd be nice to be able to play it on my Linux-based laptop, and this allows that as well, but that is far from the only method I have to access the services. I am the target market for this app, not you.

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

I watch netflix on my PS3 and DRM doesnt affect me at all so Im fine with it.

Re:Easy solution

[evilviper]

Easy solution: cut off your nose to spite your face.

That would make sense if Netflix was the only streaming video service around, but it's not. Hulu works quite well on Linux, and its no more expensive than Netflix. They even made a HuluDesktop app for Linux and Windows (though they've stopped hosting it) with a 10' interface, remote-friendly navigation, and LIRC libs.

And Hulu is a better substitute for TV than Netflix. Can you get current world news every day with Netflix? How about popular TV shows from ABC/FOX/NBC the day after they air? Great old shows like Total Recall 2070?

Re:Easy solution

[berj]

I prefer to pay for what I use when those who are providing it ask for money.

Principles.. It's good to have them.

Re:Easy solution

[RoknrolZombie]

Are you retarded? For the same reason that people "accept" paying their own Government to spy on them. For the same reason that we "accept" a boss that lies cheats and steals but will fire you for returning from lunch 3 minutes late. For the same reason that we "accept" gas prices. It's because it's that or nothing, and we'd rather have something.

Re:Easy solution

[KingMotley]

Why would you need linux support? Go spend the $70-$90 on a apple tv, roku, google tv, etc and hook it up to your monitor via a second hdmi port. Problem solved. Next issue?

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

I prefer to pay for what I use when those who are providing it ask for money.

Easy solution for you: pay for netflix and then download your content via torrent/netnews qualm free.

Principles.. It's good to have them.

Corollary: There's a sucker born every minute.

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

But you hate paying taxes. Got it.

Re:Easy solution

[Arker]

"Personally, I consider the $8/mo I pay for Netflix to be well worth it, especially when compared against the cost of a TV subscription."

The $8/month is not the issue. That part of the price I would be perfectly willing to pay, that would be reasonable, if the rest of the conditions were not unreasonable and unacceptable. And the alternative for me isnt a satellite or cable subscription. Seriously, it's not only possible to live without TV, it's actually something that will probably do you good.

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

I prefer to pay for what I use when those who are providing it ask for money.

Principles.. It's good to have them.

Don't worry, you'll get invoiced for the air you breathe soon enough. Lucky for you, you'll be happy to pay it.

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Multiple monitors and want to watch on one? Multitasking? Why should I buy another device in the first place? Should I drag a monitor and roku to the motel when I go out of town?

You know what, it's just easier to download what I want to watch through other means.

I actually tried what you are suggesting, and switching the input on the monitor works but then KDE goes "wow, only two screens now, lets be helpful and move all his tool bars", but then when the input it switch back it doesn't restore the original settings. There is more stupid in the world than I have time for anymore.

Re:Easy solution

[berj]

I do? That's news to me.

I wish someone had told me that I hate paying taxes. I would have been angry at tax time.

Re:Easy solution

[berj]

If paying $8 per month for more television and movies than I can actually watch in a month is being a sucker then I guess that's what I am. I use nextflix maybe 20 days out of every month. What kind of messed up worldview sees that as getting suckered? I pay more for bread and orange juice in a month than I pay for Netflix.

I see it as damned good value myself.

Re:Easy solution

[berj]

I prefer to pay for what I use when those who are providing it ask for money.

Easy solution for you: pay for netflix and then download your content via torrent/netnews qualm free.

How is that easier? It's an extra step that gets me nothing useful.

I watch Netflix almost every day without a hitch or worry.

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

It's because it's that or nothing, and we'd rather have something.

and so you send the message that it is ok, same with the government spying. why do you think they still do it? because their citizens accept it, if they really found it unacceptable they would do something about it. so who cares if you bitch and complain to eachother about it, in the end you will just bow to whatever they say anyway and accept it. so while you might tell me you find it unacceptable the reality is it is perfectly acceptable and you yourself accept it.

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would you need linux support? Go spend the $70-$90 on a apple tv, roku, google tv, etc and hook it up to your monitor via a second hdmi port. Problem solved. Next issue?

Why should I have to buy essentially a second computer to hook to my television in order to use Netflix? Their irrational fear of linux users as criminals and dirty pirates is what keeps me for signing up for Netflix. I have to have Winsuck on my computer for my job. I could easily run Netflix inside of a VM using my WinSh*t OS. The point is that I shouldn't have to. There is nothing inherantly wrong with using Linux. Using a proprietary program (siverlight) to effectively keep people like me from using their service is working. When Netflix decides that Linux users are not going to run amok and ruin their income stream, then I may sign up.

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't control it once you install DRM. Somebody else controls it and they can do whatever they want with it.

Really? They can do whatever they want with it? Like what? What have "they" done? This is why nobody takes free software advocates seriously, this spreading of FUD is just unbelievable, surely you can give a whole bunch of specific examples without have to resort to your blatant lying. I run a GNU/Linux OS with some DRM software, could they delete all my files? Steal my data? No they cannot, but you spread FUD that they could anyway. An operating system would have to have VERY poor security if it were allowing any application to take control of the system.

Re:Easy solution

[jpublic]

Principles.. It's good to have them.

Why do you assume that people who download the content for free do not have principles? Just because they don't have the same principles as you doesn't mean that they don't have any at all.

Re:Easy solution

[jpublic]

and so you send the message that it is ok

You do not send a message that DRM is okay. Just because you paid for something doesn't mean you're happy with every single aspect of it, and it's preposterous to suggest otherwise.

Although, I can't deny that people who pay for products with DRM lack intelligence.

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? They can do whatever they want with it? Like what? What have "they" done?

The Sony rootkits would be an example. You have no idea what they could do because it's all a closed system.

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Back on Windows XP when it was commonplace to always run as administrator, yes. Not anymore though.

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

You do not send a message that DRM is okay.

in fact you do. if it truly were unacceptable you would not be accepting it and hence not paying for the product. or are you having difficulty understanding the term "unacceptable"?

Just because you paid for something doesn't mean you're happy with every single aspect of it, and it's preposterous to suggest otherwise.

you dont have to be "happy" with it, the aspects that you dont particularly like just have to be acceptable, when they are unacceptable is when you would not be paying for such a product.

Re:Easy solution

[Jane Q. Public]

I would like it to be very clear that the above person (3023069) is NOT the Jane Q. Public (1010737) who has been around Slashdot for years. This person has only been posting for about 2 days.

I do not yet know Slashdot's policy on impersonating other users, but I intend to find out.



(post 3)

Re:Easy solution

[Jane Q. Public]

I would like it to be very clear that the above person (3023069) is NOT the Jane Q. Public (1010737) who has been around Slashdot for years. This person has only been posting for about 2 days.

I do not yet know Slashdot's policy on impersonating other users, but I intend to find out.

(Having said that, I agree with what this person wrote here.)



(post 2)

Re:Easy solution

[phantomfive]

Why do you assume that people who download the content for free do not have principles?

Because the vast majority I've met don't. They just want free stuff. A good portion of the ones who claim to have principles developed ex post facto as a justification for their desire to get free stuff. And I do include myself in that category.

Re:Easy solution

[phantomfive]

Tax time is when you get your refund. That's why you're not angry. It was designed that way on purpose.

Re:Easy solution

[jpublic]

in fact you do. if it truly were unacceptable you would not be accepting it and hence not paying for the product. or are you having difficulty understanding the term "unacceptable"?

There are multiple uses of the term "unacceptable." In fact, read what I quoted; the quoted text specifically uses the term "ok."

Fact is, just because you buy a product doesn't mean you like everything about it.

Re:Easy solution

[jpublic]

Because the vast majority I've met don't. They just want free stuff.

Even if what you say is indeed true, that doesn't mean that they completely lack principles.

A good portion of the ones who claim to have principles developed ex post facto as a justification for their desire to get free stuff.

At any rate, how do you know this, exactly? I suppose anyone who agrees with copyright is simply greedy and wants monopolies maintained by the force of the government?

Although, I suppose the reason why someone wants something is irrelevant to whether or not their arguments are correct.

Re:Easy solution

[phantomfive]

At any rate, how do you know this, exactly?

Because I talk to them and ask them. Remember this is qualified by 'people I know.'

Re:Easy solution

[kermidge]

Can you record what you watch?

Re:Easy solution

[kermidge]

Netflix works fine on my Ubuntu desktop, and using Firefox; has done since last year. See Compholio.

http://compholio.com/

Re:Easy solution

[kermidge]

What is it with all the "lack of Linux support" I see every time Netflix comes up in a thread?

search "netflix linux"

I know Netflix works fine on my Ubuntu desktop, I've been using it since last year; the solution has 32- and 64-bit deb and rpm files or an apt link, or subscribe to the ppa. I do _not_ know all the distros it works on, having no need to find out nor the time to play around with a mess of vm installs just to find out. Fellow up above says it works on Mint, but that's a 'buntu derivative and maybe shouldn't be counted. Eric Hoover has instructions for Fedora on his site, which might give some indication. Whatever distro you use, you could at least try, right? If you're serious you could even, you know, download the source and compile it for your system.

You mean all you did was go to Netflix and see 'no Linux' and gave up? You never bothered to do a quick, simple search? I've been posting info about Compholio since I started using it last year and it's been like talking to a brick wall. No, sorry, not a personal attack at all, you are just in the line of fire, so to speak.

Re:Easy solution

[hweimer]

DRM, in the virtual rental situation is acceptable, I'm not doing anything like purchasing the content, so they get to retain control.

This would only be justified if DRM-free buying options existed at the same time.

Re:Easy solution

[cyber-vandal]

Netflix has one major advantage over Hulu. It's available in other countries.

Re:Easy solution

[rikkards]

Hulu is as well for a little bit more money. Check out UnoTelly.
I setup my Openwrt dnsmasq to automatically foward anything for netflix.com and hulu.com to their DNS. This way I only use their DNS where it is required

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

I know someone who got banned from their ISP for using TPB. Since that ISP is the only one in the area, he now has to stay over at his friends house to do anything on the Internet. Welcome to the USA.

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Steam's DRM is entirely optional. There are several non-DRM non-Steamworks games that can be copied from the Steam folder after downloaded. Many games integrate into Steam just because of the convenience factor of cloud storage for settings and the whole achievement thing. Blame the programmers and publishers.

Re:Easy solution

[MachineShedFred]

Yeah, that 0.1% of the market that demands Linux streaming is really gonna hurt the bottom line over at Netflix.

Wait, all those people have Android devices because they are hardcore Linux guys... and Netflix streams to Android, right?

Re:Easy solution

[Mashdar]

Perhaps talk of principles should be dropped. Lets just call them leeches :) Some people are fine with being parasites. I would argue that if you don't feel that a product is worth the price tag, then don't use that product. Using it without paying -- even in a way which does not necesarily affect others -- is weak. Sorry, those of you who feel entitled to Game of Thrones. The books are better, anyway.

Re:Easy solution

[berj]

Any refund I may or may not get is tiny in comparison to how much I pay.

I have absolutely no problem paying my taxes. I look at my T4 slip and if the tax number is high then that means my earnings are high. I have plenty enough left over at the end of the year to enjoy a ridiculously comfortable life. Made far more comfortable because of what my taxes pay for.

Re:Easy solution

[Jane Q. Pubic]

I would like it to be very clear that the above person (1010737) is NOT the Jane Q. Pubic (3025353) who has been around Slashdot for minutes. This person has only been posting for about 2 years.

I do not yet know Slashdot's policy on impersonating other users, but I expect to be found out.

(Having said that, I agree with what this person wrote here.)

(post 3)

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Even if what you say is indeed true, that doesn't mean that they completely lack principles.

Oh yeah.. they were so principled that they downloaded seasons of The Office or Game of Thrones or photoshop or office or whatever. Instead of actually supporting people whose terms of licensing they agree with. Very principled indeed !!

I suppose anyone who agrees with copyright is simply greedy and wants monopolies maintained by the force of the government?

Like people who want to enforce F/OSS copyright?

Its simple:- Copyright is a tool. Support the people who you agree with. Don't be a freeloader who circumvents copyright to enjoy the fruits of other people hard work. If you do as an act of civil disobedience then face the charges if you get sued. People don't like hypocrits.

Re:Easy solution

[Richy_T]

Then throw a couple of grand on a bonfire too. Because that is effectively what is happening to a lot of the money government demands from you. While you're about it, track down someone driving a Porsche, Ferrari or other luxury vehicle and throw them a couple of grand too.

Re:Easy solution

[Richy_T]

I guess you could go capture card. But just one more piece of junk to haul around.

Those USB android devices can do Netflix. Unfortunately, mine died on me and DX still hasn't honored the RMA.

Re:Easy solution

[Jane Q. Public]

"I would like it to be very clear that the above person (1010737) is NOT the Jane Q. Pubic (3025353) who has been around Slashdot for minutes. This person has only been posting for about 2 years."

It has been longer than 2 years.

Regardless, it is difficult to refrain from calling you names. It is pretty clear that you are doing this maliciously, and I believe it is perfectly understandable that it makes me angry.

What is wrong with you, anyway?

Re:Easy solution

[Jane Q. Public]

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT:

The person posting above is not the Jane Q. Public (me) who has been around Slashdot for years. That person, user #3023069, is an (apparently malicious) imposter.

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

If DRM is acceptable, just go buy a mac or something. Seriously, the reason F/OSS is so "good" is that the core tenants are specifically designed to be hostile to people who come up with this shortsighted nonsense.

Re:Easy solution

[berj]

Why does every discussion about paying taxes have someone making this stupid point?

My internal combustion engine car only converts about 25% of the gasoline into work (ie. moving the car) the rest is dissipated as heat (ie. waste). Are you going to suggest that I just pour a bunch of gasoline on a bonfire too.. since the car is so wasteful of gasoline?

You seem to be of the (foolish) opinion that in order for me to have no problem paying taxes that not a cent must be wasted. Sorry.. but nothing is perfect. Sure I'd like government to waste less.. who wouldn't? Just like I'd like my car to be more efficient. But just because my car's engine is incredibly wasteful of gasoline doesn't mean I stop buying gas (or driving).. nor does government waste mean I stop paying my taxes (or get my panties in a bunch while doing so).

Re:Easy solution

[Dogtanian]

Don't like it don't use

I do believe that's exactly what the OP was suggesting.

Re:Easy solution

[suutar]

I would agree but for one thing: netflix through the PS3 has a higher wife acceptance factor than the HTPC. I'm working on it, in my copious spare time...

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

You noticed that those are different users, right?

Re:Easy solution

[jpublic]

Oh yeah.. they were so principled that they downloaded seasons of The Office or Game of Thrones or photoshop or office or whatever.

Straw man. I never said that they were principled because they infringe upon copyright; I said the fact that they do infringe upon copyright does not mean they have no principles at all, and indeed, that it's unlikely that they don't.

Are you going to argue against what I actually said, or are you going to argue against straw men?

Like people who want to enforce F/OSS copyright?

Possibly, but you should probably note that what I said was a response to the ridiculous notion that people are greedy little freeloaders just because they download content; this is no more true than saying that people who agree with copyright are entitled brats who just want government monopolies over ideas.

Its simple:- Copyright is a tool.

One that some feel violates individual liberties by infringing upon physical property rights (Can't use your own resources to make something protected under copyright.) and by utilizing censorship (What happens to websites when they're caught infringing upon copyright and the system cares enough to take action?).

Don't pretend that the debate is over or that you're automatically right simply because you have different priorities.

People don't like hypocrits.

There is no hypocrisy here, and such name-calling is rather pointless.

Re:Easy solution

[jpublic]

I find it rather unlikely that anyone truly feels "entitled" to Game of Thrones; it is more likely that because it is there and available for download, people download it. I imagine very few people are truly demanding that people let them download Game of Thrones (or anything else, really) for free. Is anyone who holds copyrights a greedy leech who feels entitled to a monopoly maintained by the force of government that infringes upon people's individual liberties? I actually think that's at least somewhat more likely than the sort of entitlement you mentioned, but more likely, they use it because it's there.

Re:Easy solution

[exomondo]

Why does every discussion about paying taxes have someone making this stupid point?

The fact that the discussion went from paying $8 a month for netflix to the absurdity of tracking down a supercar owner and giving them thousands of dollars should demonstrate to you that you thoroughly won the argument.

Re:Easy solution

[exomondo]

I wonder if this jpublic is any relation? Unlikely sir they spell and pronounce their names differently.

Re:Easy solution

[Jane Q. Public]

"I wonder if this jpublic is any relation? Unlikely sir they spell and pronounce their names differently."

No relation!

Here is what happened: that person signed up a new account using my Slashdot name. (I won't explain how, because I don't want to encourage others to do the same.) I have been using this same name on Slashdot for years. Another person using the same name, as far as I was concerned, is unwelcome.

I contacted Slashdot, and they changed the name. It is now similar to mine, but it isn't the same. That is all I care about. I'm still the Jane Q. Public.

Re:Easy solution

[Bengie]

My leg hurts from exercising too much, that is not acceptable, chop it off!

I love your logic. If something is not perfect, then it must not be used!

Re:Easy solution

[murdocj]

You decide to not watch streaming video because you don't like the technology the streamer uses. Sounds silly to me.

Re:Easy solution

[Arker]

It's not a matter of whether I like it or not. It's a matter of whether I find the cost attached reasonable, and am willing to pay it. I am not.

Re:Easy solution

[Jane Q. PubIic]

I'm glad that's working out well for you!

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

I love your logic. If something is not perfect, then it must not be used!

I didnt say that fool. If it is unacceptable then it should not be accepted, if you are accepting it then it is by definition not unacceptable. It is acceptable because it is not a deal breaker.

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

There are multiple uses of the term "unacceptable."

then tell me what you believe the definition for it is in this context.

In fact, read what I quoted; the quoted text specifically uses the term "ok."

and it is ok because it is not a deal breaker which is all netflix really cares about.

Fact is, just because you buy a product doesn't mean you like everything about it.

which is fine but it means it isnt bad enough to be a deal breaker, so it acceptable for the consumer to the extent the service/product provider had an interest in.
if it is unacceptable or not ok then what are you doing about it? nothing, so why should anybody care.

Re:Easy solution

[jpublic]

and it is ok because it is not a deal breaker which is all netflix really cares about.

What you really meant was that nothing will change until people stop giving these companies their money, not that buying the product means you enjoy every aspect of it.

if it is unacceptable or not ok then what are you doing about it? nothing, so why should anybody care.

It is unacceptable to me; that's why I don't use Netflix.

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

What you really meant was that nothing will change until people stop giving these companies their money, not that buying the product means you enjoy every aspect of it.

the first part is correct. as for the second part there I dont know where you got the idea that being accepting of deficiencies of a product means that you enjoy them because I certainly never suggested anything like that.

It is unacceptable to me; that's why I don't use Netflix.

right. it is unacceptable to you and so you dont accept it, unlike netflix's customers.

Re:Easy solution

[Jane Q. Public]

"I'm glad that's working out well for you!"

It isn't working badly. You *DO* know your IP address is recorded, yes?

It doesn't matter much if it's a proxy, because it isn't mine.

Do you REALLY want to mess things up here for everyone? Just let us know, eh?

Re:Easy solution

[cyber-vandal]

Available without having to resort to technical trickery I mean.

Re:Easy solution

[Jane Q. Public]

"Because user authentication on the Internet is difficult, the Company cannot and does not confirm that users are who they claim to be."

Except that... they did!

But let's be real. It was pretty easy to tell someone who had the same name and email address for years versus someone who was on for only a couple of days.

Also, ToS or not, it is in their best interest to see that users aren't deliberately spamming or impersonating other users.

BTW... it wasn't "someone else's" username. It was MINE. Which I spent some years establishing. Don't like that? Too bad.

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Amazon Prime is better than netflix in every way.

Cheaper and more useful

better quality titles

No Reed Hastings, epic moron.

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

> I watch Netflix almost every day without a hitch or worry.

Since you aren't doing it on linux you've got no dog in this fight. What a ridiculous level of self-centrism to bring to the debate.

And then...

[Kaenneth]

The little cage drops over the mouse, and you win!

Re:And then...

[Anonymous Coward]

thank you.. I was trying to think of how to word a response that well.

Re:And then...

[Anonymous Coward]

+1
You sir win the interwebs!

Re:And then...

[ModernGeek]

I don't understand why people seem to be so willing to do things like watch television whenever the distribution network giving them the content is so flamboyant at using a delivery system that encumbers their rights to the services provided. If an open source method was employed by these companies, one would be able to download any show at any time, share that show with their friends, and the content could be played on any device created by any manufacturer on any operating system.

Why people still choose to watch these "shows" is beyond me whenever the people delivering the content care nothing about the rights of the end user.

I refuse to be a part of any television viewing wherever I am. I just simply excuse myself from the room until the unit displaying the content is deactivated. I won't let a proprietary system run my life.

Re:And then...

[kevin lyda]

Exactly! Where's the "comment must be added to article" button?

Re:And then...

[Anonymous Coward]

So... having to leave the room every time a TV is on isn't letting it run your life?

what a hack

[Anonymous Coward]

you might as well just run windows through virtual box, i bet the performance is pretty horrible

Re:what a hack

[Anonymous Coward]

It's definitely a hack, but WINE Is Not an Emulator so performance could be OK. There is no technical reason this should be much slower than on Windows, as long as the Windows APIs that Silverlight calls perform well on Wine. Many modern 3D games run on Wine at the same speed or sometimes slightly faster than on Windows. The other side of the Silverlight plugin is the NPAPI, which is available on all major platforms. There may need to be some binary translation to get the Windows ABI and the Linux ABI to talk to each other, but that shouldn't add too much overhead on a modern PC.

Re:what a hack

[Anonymous Coward]

I used the older hack- just a patched Wine that will run Silverlight- and it actually worked for viewing Netflix, more or less. On my shitty-ass laptop that's 5 years old.

Re:what a hack

[Anonymous Coward]

Technically, neither is an emulator -- WINE is a compatibility layer, and VirtualBox is a virtual machine program.

Re:what a hack

[Anrego]

I've done this. Works if you enable hardware acceleration. I've got a decent box though (i7, 12G ram) and the experience was barely usable, so probably not the most practical solution.

Still a hack, but closer

[Anonymous Coward]

I, for one, applaud the project. The fact that they could get Netflix engineers on board means they at least care a little about their Linux users. Honestly, it's more than likely the content holders' fault that the DRM binary has to be Windows only.

Re:Still a hack, but closer

[cheater512]

I wonder why they just didn't disassemble the DRM. Whack it in a debugger and see what it is doing.
That is how Bluray fell.

Sure it is hard, but decoding it via Wine isn't?

Re:Still a hack, but closer

[Desler]

Windows only? Works just fine on OS X without hacks and compatibility layers.

Re:Still a hack, but closer

[Desler]

If it's so easy, get on it. Have something by the end of the week. K thanks.

Re:Still a hack, but closer

[Anonymous Coward]

Yea- but Apple is supported only because Microsoft would have monopoly related issues if they didn't and Apple/Microsoft are in bed together anyway.

Re:Still a hack, but closer

[Lehk228]

wine is semi-sustainable, short of a major change to windows architecture and break in backwards compatibility new versions of silverlight can be loaded up as they are released.

cracking the DRM will only last to the next point release, which will be accelerated in response to the DRM being cracked

Re:Still a hack, but closer

[vux984]

The next point release of Silverlight? Don't hold your breath.

IMO, the way things look right now, Netflix is morely likely to switch off of Silverlight than Microsoft is to release a new version of Silverlight.

Re:Still a hack, but closer

[vux984]

Honestly, it's more than likely the content holders' fault that the DRM binary has to be Windows only.

Yes, the DRM is windows only.
And Macs.
And iphones.
And xboxes
And playstation 3
And Wii
And Roku
And chromebooks.
And android tablets and phones.

Really its mostly a joke that there isn't a better linux solution at this point.

Re:Still a hack, but closer

[rthille]

And the FreeBSD that runs my BluRay player I use for Netflix...

Re:Still a hack, but closer

[amorsen]

That isn't actually how Bluray fell. It is how most people expected Bluray to fall.

Bluray fell because parts of memory containing cryptographic keys have different (much more) entropy than other parts of memory, so if you somehow stop execution of the program at the right moment, all you need to do is search through memory for anything that looks like a key and see if it works.

The authors of software players are apparently very good at writing code which cannot be debugged (a trait they share with most programmers...), but it is difficult to do decryption if you cannot store the key in an easy-to-read format.

Re:Still a hack, but closer

[MightyYar]

Nah, they had ambitions of beating Adobe Flash. If that was going to happen, they couldn't ignore so many laptop, yuppie, and college users.

Re:Still a hack, but closer

[cheater512]

Erm they were found using debuggers. You can make it tricky to debug but not impossible.
They slowed the execution speed of the code and just waited for the keys to be decrypted then they copied the memory.

It wasn't easy because the keys have higher entropy, it was easy because they are a fixed size.
Not much in computing uses large fixed size numbers like encryption does. When they start getting used they stand out and can easily be extracted.

Ridonculous

[yelvington]

At some point you just spend $130 and buy an Android tablet at wally world. Or a $50 Roku.

Re:Ridonculous

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get it. Why shouldn't Linux desktop users have a solution to allow them to subscribe to watch movies without resorting to piracy. Why should I have to use another device to do so, or be limited to other services such as Amazon Prime (which works just fine on Linux, thank you).

I'd understand if the hatred was coming from the fact that Netflix has DRM or that the implementation is closed-source, but telling people to give up and buy a PS3 or Roku? This may not be the most elegant architecture, but if you want to use Netflix on an unsupported platform, there's not many options when you're dealing with a closed system.

Maybe I'm the target niche market -- a Linux desktop user without a standalone TV -- but I, for one, applaud their efforts.

Re:Ridonculous

[Arker]

Or realize that their are a million sources for these videos and try one that doesnt work so hard to keep you out.

Re:Ridonculous

[Anonymous Coward]

Then I'd need to also buy a tv or external monitor, which I don't want. My laptop screen is the largest I have, and it doesn't take inputs.

(I use a Mac, so this doesn't affect me, but if I were running linux I'd appreciate the option.)

Re:Ridonculous

[Anonymous Coward]

Yea- we should be boycotting these services though.

I've simply refuse to subscribe. Just like a refuse to subscribe to my cable company- because of crap services and more seriously false advertising. If your going to tell me my connection is up to 20mbps and I only get 3mbps at prime time vs 10mbps at prime time with DSL then no- your services are not faster than DSL by a factor of 50.

There is a solution to this issue for most current users. Torrents and Google. Both work great on GNU/Linux. Install adblock plus, and use Google.

[ name of show/movie ] site:.eu OR site:.ch

You should be able to find just about anything (and a heck of a lot more than on Netflix anyway) you want within the first few results of a search.

Re:Ridonculous

[Darinbob]

Much simpler to just ignore Netflix entirely. You do not need to see that movie or show.

Re:Ridonculous

[evilviper]

At some point you just spend $130 and buy an Android tablet at wally world. Or a $50 Roku.

Throw another $50 / $130 on top of Netflix's monthly fee, and it doesn't turn out to be a very good deal at all...

Besides, I already have my Linux box connected to my TV, handling all my TV/DVR, DVD/BluRay, Hulu, gaming, and other functions. Telling me I have to have a separate box just for Netflix just tells me I shouldn't get Netflix.

Hulu works well enough on Linux. Though they've since hidden the project, they even had HuluDesktop for Windows and Linux, which works nicely with a remote control. Seems like a better plan for Linux users to subscribe to HuluPlus and boycott Netflix instead.

Re:Ridonculous

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know. Why shouldn't toilet users have a solution to allow them to subscribe to watch movies without resorting to piracy. Why should I have to use another device to do so. As it is, now toilet users have to steal a TV set to watch movies while on the toilet.

Re:Ridonculous

[mcrbids]

Throw another $50 / $130 on top of Netflix's monthly fee, and it doesn't turn out to be a very good deal at all...

Are you kidding? I was paying that much per month for Cable...

Besides, I already have my Linux box connected to my TV, handling all my TV/DVR, DVD/BluRay, Hulu, gaming, and other functions. Telling me I have to have a separate box just for Netflix just tells me I shouldn't get Netflix.

I'm hard pressed to find a device *other than* your Linux box that doesn't do Netflix! In my large-family household, we have: My phone, Wife's phone, Son's phone, 3 Daughters' phones, my still-working, wifi-only old phone, my 7" tablet, Son's Xbox, PS3, Wif'e's iPad, and several laptops and desktops up to 3 or 4 generations old.

I love Linux. I use it for work, at which it does fantastic. Reliable, cheap, powerful; it's a programmer's paradise! But when I play, I use toys like Windows to watch videos and play GTA.

Re:Ridonculous

[Kjella]

Yeah, that'd be the easy way out. Linux is built by people who'd rather take the steep mountain pass with blizzards and danger of rock slides than pay a buck to drive the toll road, sometimes because they don't have a buck but more often on principle against "restricted roads". Whether it's rational is highly debatable, but eventually what was a WTF route becomes an easy road.

That unsupported device/application/service there, do you?:
a) Buy the supported platform
b) Buy a different product that does support Linux
c) Say "Oh no you don't" and hack up a reverse engineered driver, WINE or some other kind of free software reimplementation/replacement/workaround

The people who belong in the c) category are the reason Linux couldn't be killed by nuking it from orbit. I myself have spent silly amounts of time tweaking WINE and dealing with all sorts of bugs and incompatibilities compared to just using Windows, just for the heck of not running it. Not that there's anything wrong with native games, but if I'd have to sit around waiting for AAA titles to come I'd be waiting forever. Granted now I'm back on Win7 (It was Vista that drove me away) and the "easy" life and will let someone else carry the torch, but it's that kind of stubborn refusal that drives it forward.

Re:Ridonculous

[evilviper]

Are you kidding? I was paying that much per month for Cable...

Netflix isn't cable, and the fact that you've wasted more money before, doesn't make wasting money NOW a good idea.

And you should be comparing Netflix to the real alternatives, not cable or other hypothetical options... Check the prices of Hulu, Amazon Video, Apple TV, etc. As I said, Hulu works extremely well on my Linux box.

It's insane to suggest spending MORE money on a product from a company that has made it clear THEY DON'T WANT YOU AS A CUSTOMER.

I'm hard pressed to find a device *other than* your Linux box that doesn't do Netflix! In my large-family household, we have: My phone, Wife's phone, Son's phone, 3 Daughters' phones, my still-working, wifi-only old phone, my 7" tablet, Son's Xbox, PS3, Wif'e's iPad, and several laptops and desktops up to 3 or 4 generations old.

My 18 month-old mid-level phone plays Netflix movies like a slideshow... No option to change the bitrate, quality or any other settings, so no Netflix. Of course watching Netflix primarily on a phone would be absolute madness... And how INSANELY LONG did it take Netflix to FINALLY release a dammed Android version? Netflix really doesn't seem to want your business, or mine...

Hulu works perfectly on my Linux box, my phone, and no doubt on your family's phones and computers, too. Better TV selection, including things like news and just-aired major TV shows, etc.

Re:Ridonculous

[kermidge]

Search "netflix linux", install solution. Pipelight looks nifty, but I've been using Netflix on my Linux desktop since last year.

Re:Ridonculous

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup, piracy just works at this point, and the DRM used just about everywhere in an attempt to thwart it clearly isn't working, i'd pay for a system that i could use openly on my raspberry pi and desktop without jumping through dozens of hoops, they'd have to accept the risk of me stealing their content in the way that i already can so easily from various torrent sites or other sources, maybe watermarking would be worth a go there. I'd even pay more for a competing service that offered the extra flexibility.

Re:Ridonculous

[MightyYar]

Why shouldn't Linux desktop users have a solution to allow them to subscribe to watch movies without resorting to piracy.

Who cares? A news server costs only a little more than Netflix, has no DRM, and has better and more recent selection (not to mention a sane way to browse!). If they don't want to market to you, why go out of your way to throw money at them?

Re:Ridonculous

[foniksonik]

Tablets work great as personal media viewers. You really only need a TV if watching something with a group.

Re:Ridonculous

[drinkypoo]

My 18 month-old mid-level phone plays Netflix movies like a slideshow

My 24 month-old mid-level phone plays Netflix movies like movies. Flawlessly. Not sure why I'd ever want to watch a movie on such a small screen, though.

Netflix also works flawlessly on my Tronsmart MK908. The interface is shit, but that's Netflix's fault. You really cannot use it without touch or a mouse. If you try to use a remote you will fail. To be candid, I had to load a customized kernel, but that's no longer difficult. You can even build your own, finally. Now if I could just get cifs to work, I suppose I will have to add more debugging.

Re:Ridonculous

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems like a better plan for Linux users to subscribe to HuluPlus and boycott Netflix instead.

I see people liking Hulu, but every time I try it it seems like a world of suck. I even paid for it for a month, and on my Android tablet using their app, they would show me ads & then fail to show the video I wanted, saying there was a network error. This happened repeatedly. Plus all the clips rather than full shows, and the fact that if I'm paying I don't want ads, and I'm happy with Roku and Netflix, with Plex for local content.

A hack no doubt...

[yathaid]

But the end goal is to get joe-on-the-street to watch NetFlix on Linux. And this does give good performance, with the usual linux gpu caveats.
Drops frames on my AMD machine, but my roomie's nVidia is all smooth sailing even at SuperHD.

Re:A hack no doubt...

[Anonymous Coward]

But the end goal is to get joe-on-the-street to watch NetFlix on Linux.

But they already solved that. It's called Android. Or Roku. Take your pick.

Re:A hack no doubt...

[Anonymous Coward]

ATI just plain sucks on Linux... Ive been running Linux on the desktop since RedHat 6.2 (Zoot) and using nothing but nVidia for years with no problems!

Re:A hack no doubt...

[Arker]

"But the end goal is to get joe-on-the-street to watch NetFlix"

Sounds like something NetFlix should be interested in supporting. If they are not, why should I care?

Re:A hack no doubt...

[Anonymous Coward]

joe-on-the-street isn't running Linux on anything but maybe his smartphone. joe-on-the-street is running Windows or Mac.

Fails on multiple counts

[mark-t]

First of all, claiming to "come to linux" but only working under WINE is not really coming to linux at all. You can run Windows Notepad under WINE as well.

Secondly, WINE (with win32 compatiblity) is not officially supported on native 64 bit Linux systems unless you have 32-bit libraries installed. While this is probably fine if you are only installing binaries, but for distributions which install some applications by compiling them from source, it can cause some consternation when building some applications because the linker might end up trying to use the libraries in the 32 bit library directory instead of the 64-bit one which causes what's supposed to be an automated build process to fail, abruptly and unceremoniously. Although such errors are ultimately the result of faulty assumptions in the actual build script, and not the fault of actually trying to use both 32 and 64-bit libraries simultaneously on one platform, such errors are still frequent enough to be annoying... and I'd rather not deal with them.

Finally... it's Netflix. Their movie selection sucks.

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[danomatika]

Finally... it's Netflix. Their movie selection sucks.

I'm pretty sure their DVD collection doesn't. Besides, last I checked, Linux could play DVDs just fine.

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[VortexCortex]

First of all, claiming to "come to linux" but only working under WINE is not really coming to linux at all. You can run Windows Notepad under WINE as well.

Microsoft Bob Comes To GNU/Linux Via 'Virtual Box'

/me shudders.

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[mark-t]

Netflix DVD rental service is not available in Canada. Zip.ca is Canada's mail DVD service, but their selection is still not particularly stellar (although admittedly modestly better than Netflix streaming service in Canada, it's still not significantly better than the video rental stores that Netflix has largely replaced)..

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[Flammon]

Sheesh, take your negativity elsewhere.

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[ediron2]

baloney.

A pc with a Linux OS that lets me stream netflix via any means including WINE is 2nd place behind native linux code, but the movie did indeed 'come to linux'. I don't have to reinstall my OS or run in a VM? It's on linux. And who the fuck cares about notepad; MS OFFICE RUNS UNDER WINE (some versions, YMMV, some limitations may apply).

Purism matters nothing in the crossover wars: if I can get netflix to stream on linux, it's better than if it won't.

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[Anonymous Coward]

*shrug* Gentoo solved the "build both 32-bit and 64-bit executables on the same system" problem ages ago. If your distro hasn't solved this problem, it blows donkey dicks. If your build scripts are so broken as to fail in this way, you *are* a donkey dick.

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[mark-t]

Slackware blows donkey dick then, I suppose.

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[aliquis]

But wine runs on Linux just like everything else. It's not all other things for Linux run using the same libraries or what not.

Also I assume Wine Is Not an Emulator.

Secondly, WINE (with win32 compatiblity) is not officially supported on native 64 bit Linux systems unless you have 32-bit libraries installed.

So is nothing else 32 bit ..

While this is probably fine if you are only installing binaries, but for distributions which install some applications by compiling them from source, it can cause some consternation when building some applications because the linker might end up trying to use the libraries in the 32 bit library directory instead of the 64-bit one which causes what's supposed to be an automated build process to fail

Too bad they suck but what does that have to do with wine really?

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[aliquis]

Guess one would be pretty stupid to ever rent a DVD because as we here in Sweden pay for the right to take personal copies of our friends material (I think the story goes somewhat like that, IANALBISHTPTF (I am not a lawyer but I sure have to pay the fees)) I guess the only reasonable thing to do would be to ask your friends to share all the videos they had so you could copy them (the law may talk about limited numbers or whatever, still IANAL, this isn't legal advice, for all I care this should be outlawed and the fee removed, backup / alternative copies of shit you already own / have a license for should be free regardless) and well, I guess that's not all the DVDs in the world but get more friends or whatever =P

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[aliquis]

Slackware blows donkey dick then, I suppose.

Likely.

Though shouldn't binaries be just fine in Slackware? Never mind some people claim the package manager blows donkey dick for those to. That's not my opinion though. I don't have one since I don't use it and I think it would be pretty retarded / weird if there was no tool for Slackware which offered decent package management.

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[Anonymous Coward]

Multilib is available on Slack, so I fail to see the problem.

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[Anonymous Coward]

The package management tools in Slackware do everything that those in rpm and deb based distros do (slackpkg is the network aware equivalent front end, akin to yum or apt, thus allowing for stuff like remove search and download). The only thing it doesn't do is dependency management (which many consider to be a plus, search the Slackware forums for more on why). In fact Slackware has some features not found in rpm and deb based distros, e.g. it allows for the possibility of two packages to claim ownership of a file. This means that only if you delete both packages is that shared file removed (it doesn't mater which order).

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[Anonymous Coward]

Secondly, WINE (with win32 compatiblity) is not officially supported on native 64 bit Linux systems unless you have 32-bit libraries installed. While this is probably fine if you are only installing binaries, but for distributions which install some applications by compiling them from source, it can cause some consternation when building some applications because the linker might end up trying to use the libraries in the 32 bit library directory instead of the 64-bit one which causes what's supposed to be an automated build process to fail, abruptly and unceremoniously. Although such errors are ultimately the result of faulty assumptions in the actual build script, and not the fault of actually trying to use both 32 and 64-bit libraries simultaneously on one platform, such errors are still frequent enough to be annoying... and I'd rather not deal with them.

File a bug report.
Submit a patch to fix that.
Chose something that is not broken in that way.
Do without Netflix on your desktop.
Purchase a Netflix-friendly device.

Your choice.
Your choice.

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[phantomfive]

You can run Windows Notepad under WINE as well.

What?? Notepad already came to Linux?? Sweetness!

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[Anonymous Coward]

First of all, claiming to "come to linux" but only working under WINE is not really coming to linux at all. You can run Windows Notepad under WINE as well.

And your point is ?
While I greet the recent trend to have more and more Linux-native (actually, in its x86 and x86-64 flavours only) applications, I see nothing wrong with using wine to claim portability. If used like this seriously, Wine will improve (performance, compatibility), which has a chance of improving all other applications already running on wine and which will never be ported to native linux binaries.

Secondly, WINE (with win32 compatiblity) is not officially supported on native 64 bit Linux systems unless you have 32-bit libraries installed.

Of course it needs 32bits libs. What do you expect ? An extra layer of bytesize translation while the kernel and arch have 32bits support in place ? Nothing to do with official/unofficial support.

While this is probably fine if you are only installing binaries, but for distributions which install some applications by compiling them from source, it can cause some consternation when building some applications because the linker might end up trying to use the libraries in the 32 bit library directory instead of the 64-bit one which causes what's supposed to be an automated build process to fail, abruptly and unceremoniously. Although such errors are ultimately the result of faulty assumptions in the actual build script, and not the fault of actually trying to use both 32 and 64-bit libraries simultaneously on one platform, such errors are still frequent enough to be annoying... and I'd rather not deal with them.

Abruptness aside (do you expect the toolchain to apologise when failing ?), setup a 32bits chroot. It'll cost you 30 minutes once (ok, two hours if you're not used to it) and you'll live happier after. Just run from repository or bind-mount /usr/local inside it so "make install" makes the build available outside chroot. Done.

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[torsmo]

I build my own distro, but I have always based the package-management on SlackBuilds.The "package-management" is just 4 scripts, and doesn't need fat libraries to work. Pacman from Arch is similar, but requires ugly hacks for it to run on my system. Also, I can just use vanilla Slackware build scripts for many packages, so I don't have to rewrite scripts for them, either. Even when I need to, they're so simple, with none of the convoluted syntax of other PM systems, that I can write/edit them in no time.

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[kermidge]

Objections noted, and if they're important to you, they're quite good ones. But if one just wants to watch via Netflix, for many the solution is available and it works, at least on some distros.

I do not dismiss the bit about Wine; I use it (Codeweavers; the yearly payment helps support Wine, which many do find useful even if impure.) for example, to play Civ V, and despite the occasional crash, at this stage in my life I'm just not gonna get too bent out of shape to carp. Doesn't mean I would not like to see more native Linux stuff, only that meanwhile I'll use what lets me use some of the things I want. Or I could even use Windows for main OS if some Windows-only program were that important to my needs, but I prefer not to.

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[Anonymous Coward]

But it really doesn't matter at all since I can get the same movies for free without any hassle at all from other places in a format that I can play however I want to. It's fun watching this industry kill itself. Almost like a movie.

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[Mashdar]

In that case Netflix has been working just fine for months ;) http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/how-to-get-netflix-streaming-on-ubuntu-1210/ I have a Mint box in the living room, and the only reason I currently have a Netflix sub is the Ubuntu workaround. The new method sounds like a step up, though.

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[Agent0013]

Yep, the publishers forget that the black market is a part of the free market.

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[mark-t]

But WINE is not officially supported on slack64, even *WITH* multilib.

Plus, there is no technical requirement with slackware that slackbuilds be multilib friendly, since multlib is not part of the standard slackware distribution, so using multilib can sometimes break installing or upgrading slackbuilds.

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[mark-t]

setup a 32bits chroot.

While there's plenty of descriptions online for how to do that for some distributions, there is an astute lack of it for slackware.

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[mark-t]

Slackbuilds are additional slackware software packages that one can download and install, but they are often installed by compiling from source. They work seamlessly with the existing slackware package system, however.

Re:Fails on multiple counts

[Anonymous Coward]

Just use Gentoo and you should be fine.

Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

We've already had netflix-desktop package for what over a year now that works fine using WINE and a windows version of firefox with Silverlight 4 this is kind of like re-inventing the wheel.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

NVM it's based on the work of netflix-desktop if you read here

http://fds-team.de/cms/articles/2013-08/pipelight-using-silverlight-in-linux-browsers.html

The Inevitable

[rueger]

Y'know, I read through the summary twice, and both times concluded that there's about a 1% chance of this whole mess working. Too many things relying on too many other things relying on too many other things.

Although having the word "Netscape" in there.....

Really? No thanks.

[UltraZelda64]

"...in turn communicates with a Windows program running under Wine. The Windows program then simulates a browser to load the Silverlight libraries."

I'm sorry, but... fail. Netflix, get off your asses. Support real standards.

I won't be a Netflix customer as long as I have to deal with dirty hacks involving compatibility layers like Wine to interface with a program pretending to be a web browser with something that tries to act like it's Microsoft's black box known as Silverlight. All which is likely to be buggy and unstable, because the entire thing was put together and built on completely closed crap.

Re:Really? No thanks.

[Microlith]

Real standards? Like what, HTML5 ECE? You're going to end up with a completely closed binary blob via that path as well. Of course, Netflix has already chosen which ECE module they're going to use -- Microsoft's. So zero problems solved, and now we have yet another plugin API.

Re:Really? No thanks.

[VortexCortex]

Real standards? Like what, HTML5 ECE? You're going to end up with a completely closed binary blob via that path as well.

Just compile or port the damn code they already have working on Linux Android Mobiles for Linux Destops. Some of us will use closed source crap if we have to, like GPU drivers, or games, etc. IMO, I have to have the OS stack open source for important things -- like making sure the software I write and use for work has a path forward without planned obsolescence -- but games and media? Meh. Netflix is just making it harder on us Linux Desktop Folks because of pressure from MAFIAA types who think "freetards are de pirates", when in reality, using a free and open source OS has nothing to do with wanting to get things for zero cost.

And, no, the problem's not "solved", as it doesn't seem to work correctly on my x64 or ARM Linux boxen for some strange reason... I'd fix it in my spare time rather than use a VM instead, but it's closed source, so they don't let me help them. I'll just use any of the other streaming services, or a combination, because $30 bux a month and $8 a month is nothing. Hell, I was paying hundreds for cable plans before I cut that TV cord, so the money's not the issue... And it's just as easy to "pirate" content on a Windows install within or without running it in a VM.

Also, isn't Windows the most pirated OS? Well, no one ever accused the MAFIAA of being smart. They're just losing money to prop up a dying business model.

Re:Really? No thanks.

[UltraZelda64]

If they want to take the black box route, then fine--they can write a native program with their DRM crap built in, compile it and package it for the major distributions (.deb, .rpm, .txz, .tar.bz2/.tar.gz). And keep the damn thing up to date, fully patched and supported, unlike Adobe's treatment of Flash on Linux.

I'd rather use that than a glorified set of hacks produced purely from reverse engineering a foreign black box like Windows and tricking it to think that it's running yet another black box (Silverlight) natively. And that would be better than corrupting a standard like HTML with DRM in a way, but I'll take some kind of HTML5 support over a pure binary blob that is maintained by a company who would probably not write a very good program to begin with. And besides, face it, it's DRM--it will be cracked in record time, especially being a part of an official spec if they do integrate it with the standard. They can't win with such a ridiculous joke of a "security" tool. If they write a program, probably every "security update" will be 95% potential breaking of their DRM, while they neglect the actual, real security issues.

A binary package would still be unacceptable, because it would continue to leave BSD users out. But, well, that's what happens with proprietary software, and honestly I doubt that a lot of BSD users would care because they tend to be much more forgiving of proprietary software. But maybe the HTML5 method could work. Although the standard would be contaminated in the process, and broken all to hell long before HTML5 is even complete.

Re:Really? No thanks.

[advocate_one]

If they want to take the black box route, then fine--they can write a native program with their DRM crap built in, compile it and package it for the major distributions (.deb, .rpm, .txz, .tar.bz2/.tar.gz). And keep the damn thing up to date, fully patched and supported, unlike Adobe's treatment of Flash on Linux.

They don't trust the environment that black box would be running in...

Re:Really? No thanks.

[Anonymous Coward]

I know about EME - encrypted media extensions - what does ECE stand for?

And Netflix isn't going exclusively with the MS blob. It can use the Google blob in (prerelease versions of) Chrome products too.

Works Perfectly

[Anonymous Coward]

If you can add an apt repository, then you can install pipelight. I gave it a go; took all of 30 seconds to install and works flawlessly. I can't detect any noticeable performance lags compared to Windows, and the speed of the public wireless hotspot that I'm connected to leaves much to be desired. I couldn't be happier with this hack.

Re:Works Perfectly

[Anonymous Coward]

The hack might work 'good enough', but it's not desirable.

We shouldn't be supporting Netflix because Netflix doesn't support us.

They don't even pretend to care.

I'm not happy with Steam either although I'm even more disappointed with Netflix.

If I recall correctly the CEO of Netflix owns a lot of stock in Microsoft and is an ex-Microsoft employee. That or maybe Microsoft owns 10% of Netflix. Although I think the 10% is of Facebook and not Netflix (I'm pretty sure it is the ex-CEO one above). Either way I won't use Netflix or Facebook. I should probably boycott Ubuntu now too. Canonical hired a high level Microsoft employee recently.

Netflix Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

There's already a linux package out there called (on arch at least) "netflix-desktop". This runs FF and Silverlight within Wine and works perfectly well. Can't really see the point in this seeing as it still needs Wine, but adds the extra complexity of communicating between FF on Linux and Silverlight in Wine.

Re:Netflix Desktop

[acariquara]

Point is, "netflix-desktop" performance is craptastic at best. On an ION2 mobo that plays 1080p without issues I am lucky to get 15 fps on that thing.

Re:Netflix Desktop

[dhasenan]

If you want to juggle multiple browsers, one only for silverlight, then use netflix-desktop. Otherwise use Pipelight.

seems like it would be easier

[apcullen]

Wouldn't it be easier to run an android image in a virtual machine and just use the android netflix app?

Re:seems like it would be easier

[TheModelEskimo]

Netflix frame rates suck in a VM. I did this on a very beefy computer and the winning solution was actually netflix-desktop in Ubuntu.

Re:seems like it would be easier

[aliquis]

Sounds like it would be easiest to use Windows.

And even easier if everyone did so.

There. Solved! Everyone wins! ;D

Re:seems like it would be easier

[kermidge]

No. It's much easier to install the Compholio wine patch via ppa or deb or rpm.

Re:seems like it would be easier

[apcullen]

Thanks for the reply-- I'd never heard of that. I must have missed the "netflix comes to linux via netflix-desktop" headline. gotta check that out...

Re:seems like it would be easier

[fulldecent]

Wouldn't it just be easier to download on pirate bay.

Re:seems like it would be easier

[apcullen]

Well, sure but.... um....
..... ... ... ... um.... Ok. Fine.

Oh, yippie . . .

[Anonymous Coward]

Is netflix even relevant anymore? I stopped being a member while I was still on Windows XP because netflix was such a pus case as far as their business policies go. When they started with the qwikster crap and all the rest, it was time to hang it up.

I already pay for an internet connection, so I'm not going to pay for netflix on top of it. Besides, they don't want to play, much less play 'nice' with my linux boxes, so they can just go get their toys and get the blank out of my yard--quick.

Netflix on Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Several Linux distributions have shipped with Netflix support using WINE in the past. I think they just bundle Silverlight, WINE and a Windows build of Firefox together. This solution, which also uses WINE, seems more complex.

What a fucking clown-kar

[DougDot]

Or maybe "Keysone Kops" is a more accurate characterization.

Couldn't they...

[gigaherz]

... make a netscape plugin, that loads windows netscape plugins? Sortof like plugin-host.exe Firefox uses? Or is it like that already?

Re:Couldn't they...

[gigaherz]

The project is split in two parts: a shared library which is loaded into your Linux browser and a pluginloader which is executed in Wine. The shared library offers the Netscape Plugin API (NPAPI) to the browsers and acts like all other plugins, except the fact that it does not provide the API functions directly. When the library is loaded by the browsers it starts the pluginloader in Wine and sends all API calls to the plugin through a pipe. The loader will listen for this calls and send them to the Silverlight plugin. All handles, interfaces and objects which are only available at one side are recreated as fake objects on the other side, so that we can capture all calls and redirect them through the pipe. The real handles are replaced by fake 64 bit IDs during the transmission, which allows us to load 32 bit plugins into 64 bit browsers and vice versa without having to pay attention at the size of the real handles. The only real difference in the API between Linux and Windows is the handling of drawing and input events, which requires additional code inside the pluginloader.

Yes, it is. Stupid summary making it sound more complicated than it really is.

How is it played in smart appliances?

[TheRealMindChild]

I was under the impression that Bluray players and smart TVs (especially samsung) run an embedded linux. How are they able to stream netflix?

Re:How is it played in smart appliances?

[vux984]

I was under the impression that Bluray players and smart TVs (especially samsung) run an embedded linux. How are they able to stream netflix?

Netflix supports and has supported for a while now, non-Silverlight enabled playback. It even supports Windows 8.1 on IE11 via HTML5 rather than silverlight. I expect the Windows 8 modern UI netflix app also has no dependancy on silverlight.

But you raise an interesting question, rather than attacking linux playback by way of a Wine+Silverlight 'pipeline', would it not be more straightforward to pipe it through whatever is happening with a chromebook or android device??

Re:How is it played in smart appliances?

[PPH]

would it not be more straightforward to pipe it through whatever is happening with a chromebook or android device??

I assume that the player (proprietary) takes some steps to check its environment and look for signs of output redirection, rooting, or other 'unapproved' modifications. This may include some key exchange and authentication with the hardware, including the display.

If you could crack that and provide the player binary with a virtual Android environment, it might work.

Re:How is it played in smart appliances?

[vux984]

Right, that's more or less what i was thinking, but isn't android and in particular the the google nexus stuff reasonably open already? Surely it wouldn't be that much to defeat the DRM. Its just a 3rd party app after all, so it shouldn't have deep hooks beneath the regular OS like the software that runs the actual cellular radio etc.

And if so, it shouldn't be THAT hard to put the droid netflix code into a wrapper?

I wonder if the existing android emulators can play netflix? I'll have to look into that... and looks like No. But it could be related to ARM hardware emulation issues -- which I hadn't considered. IMO that's probably why they went with WINE+silverlight. Even if they could defeat the hardware validation (and I expect they could), they'd still be running a video coden in full on hardware emulation (not just virtualization).

Are there any non-microsoft/non-silverlight implementations of the netflix app on x86?

Playstation 4.. lol ... too bad that's going to be a DRM clusterfuck.

Re:How is it played in smart appliances?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, even on linux! but it requires an additional chip which I assume is doing extra fun DRM shiz.

WD TV Live Plus

Released early in 2010[11] and having all the features of the WD TV Live along with Netflix streaming support. In order to support Netflix, a macrovision enabled SoC was required (Sigma Designs SMP8654) and the Linux system is also now encrypted.[12] However, actual user experience has lagged for some. As of April 12, 2011,[13] Netflix Canada works on a WD Live TV Plus as long as the firmware has been upgraded to version 1.04.31_B or newer. It is also known as WDTV Live Plus (Model number WDBABX0000NBK, WDBREC0000NBK, WDBG3A0000NBK).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD_TV

Re:How is it played in smart appliances?

[Anonymous Coward]

On my rooted Motorola Xoom running an otherwise stock environment, I can output Netflix to my TV via the HDMI output. Netflix really doesn't care much about the Android environment. Doesn't even need any Google services to run properly.

compholio

[nten]

I watch netflix in ubuntu. I accomplished it by adding one rep and installing one package. It manages the wine version, the windows firefox version, the silverlight version, and whatever other unholy nonsense is involved in making it work. The only glitch is that sometimes the audio is on fastforward when I first start watching something and I have to wait for it to go back to normal, then start the show over. This is on a relatively ancient macbook (it has an ethernet port), and it is still fast enough.

Re:compholio

[kermidge]

Finally! a fellow traveler. Sheesh, I was beginning to think I was the only one watching Netflix on Linux desktop since last year, the way so many keep moaning and groaning about 'no Netflix on Linux' around here. I haven't had the audio prob, for which I'm glad.

Re you sig - Heinlein, I think it was, long ago suggested that for every law added, two must be removed, until the number of laws got down to some unspecified manageable number - essentially that one be able to walk out the door with a fair expectation that he knew what would get him arrested. Hell, just the tax code printed out would take up several pallets.

The only advantage to the body of current law as written is that if the authorities want to get you, there's some law that'll let them do so.

Re:compholio

[drinkypoo]

I installed the same package. The only glitch is that playback is stuttery and unacceptable at HD resolutions. Meanwhile, Netflix works great on Windows XP in vmware player 5 on a Linux host. That involves even more pieces working correctly, but it works a hell of a lot better. I have a Phenom II X6 1045T and a 240GT so there's no particular reason why I shouldn't have smooth playback.

Creative hack

[sl4shd0rk]

I'll show my Netflix love when they are able to produce a native Linux binary.

Re:Creative hack

[drinkypoo]

I'll show my Netflix love when they are able to produce a native Linux binary.

Roku and WD Live both run Linux and include Netflix binaries. HTH, HAND.

What is the point of the DRM

[doconnor]

I thought the whole point of these elaborate DRM schemes was to prevent the movies from being played in an emulated or virtualized envirnment where the video could be intercepted.

If it does, why bother?

Ripping rented DVDs is way easier

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah nah bugger that. Ripping rented DVD/BD to my NAS is cheaper, easier, faster, untraceable and requires no bandwidth.

Silverlight

[Trogre]

On that note, has anyone else noticed Silverlight being pushed out to WSUS servers as another important Windows update? Three times?

As in, when we choose "Do not install, and don't tell me again", it re-appears in the subsequent two update runs. This is the second time this has happened in as many years.

How ridiculous can it get?

[loufoque]

Send the encrypted content to the cloud on a Windows system running as a virtual machine in a Linux box. Have the Windows decrypt it and display it full-screen. Capture the output of the virtual machine and re-encode it. Finally, transfer the unencrypted content back to the user.

Netflix already works in Linux...

[Cyfun]

...if you run Android! I'm no expert on programming, but if works in Android's flavor of Linux, why can't it be ported to the other distros?

Re:Netflix already works in Linux...

[TheGratefulNet]

it runs on android NON-ROOTED. if you are rooted, I think the app refuses to run.

many things do root-detection on android and refuse to run. this is one of them.

the bay is still our friend, for as long as DRM stays around.

Re:Netflix already works in Linux...

[Anonymous Coward]

No. I have several rooted android devices...netflix app works fine. In fact, the netflix app works fine in a virtualized android environment.

Re:Netflix already works in Linux...

[caseih]

But Android really isn't Linux. But even the parts of Android that are linux (the posix API that apps can reach out to), it's not x86. Hence you cannot just port netflix from android to a Linux desktop.

Great

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet another story that makes Windows more and more obsolete and its comment threads that are overwhelmingly paid Microsoft FUD-spewers trying to downplay it or downright insult it because they have to delay the inevitable: the death of Windows and Microsoft itself because they cannot stand any competition and destroyed themselves trying to keep it out.

Sell me the files!!

[Anonymous Coward]

There isn't a single unit of content on Netflix that isn't trivially available to Sickbeard.

But with Sickeard shit Just Works without the slightest hint of a shadow of hassle.

I am not averse to paying. My data sources with Sickbeard aren't free. They're merely Free.

Sell me the files. I'll pay, but you keep telling me No. So I keep on not paying you, because you're not open for business yet.

Yet. Some day your stockholders will find out that you're turning away customers, saying "fuck you and your filthy money, we're not in the money business," and how will you explain that at the shareholders' trial?

Keep trying

[lkernan]

Is that all! If you aren't piping it through 3 firewalls, 2 satellites and a dial up connection, you just aren't trying hard enough.

No, I don't want a separate computer for every app

[Anonymous Coward]

I already have a shiny new laptop more than capable of handling all my computational workloads. I'm not going to buy another piece of hardware that's inferior in every regard simply because media companies don't like free software.

It's easy and cheap to pirate content in formats that play on almost anything. I'm happy to pay for content, but only if I'm sure the content and any advertised features will work on my existing computer.

Rube goldberg

[williamyf]

only fittingly, the first content you should watch on netflix after setting this up is a marathon of rube goldberg cartoons.

Principles?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought it was called respect.

DRM is bad, but Steam seems fair

[Camael]

Just like Steam, the customers happily accept being branded with a hot iron as long as they're also given a carrot.

While I agree broadly with the main thrust of your argument (they should really stop fraudulently advertising that you 'own' digital products when you so clearly don't) I think your characterisation of Steam users here is inappropriate.

For a majority of Steam users, I believe, it is a simple matter of economics and convenience. The benefits can be rather compelling :-

1) During periodic Steam sales, the games could be substantially cheaper than a retail box. Sometimes up to 75% or more.
2) You can DL the game and play it on the same day.
3) You dont have to physically travel to the store.
4) You don't have to hunt for and patch your own games.
5) You don't have to deal with harassed sales staff on release days.

Most Steam users I believe, have done up the sums and are willing to give up the privilege of owning their games for these benefits. It is a choice they make. For those who insist on owning their games, as in the old days, they can still buy retail boxes. That is also their choice, a different choice but a no less valid one based on their personal values.

If you are concerned about the dilution of the First Sale Doctrine and ownership rights generally, I agree that it is a concern. As individual consumers however, when it comes to non-essentials like games and entertainment, we always have the power to vote with our wallets. The most recent example is the furor over the drm of XBoxOne which eventually caused MS to reverse their policy.

Re:DRM is bad, but Steam seems fair

[Anonymous Coward]

Steam simply sucks: I buy the game in a DVD in a box, but to play it I've to connect myself to steam, then convince the installer that I really want it to install the 6GB+ game from the DVD not from the internet, then wait 1 hour for the 300MB update to download from their crappy servers to finally play the game. And yes in case you're going to ask: the game was cheaper at the physical store, I rarely buy anything from steam these days.

Re:DRM is bad, but Steam seems fair

[Darinbob]

The sales are not for new games. When they occur they are cheap, however in brick and mortar stores you will also see sales and the price tends to stay low and not pop up again. Ie, they want to get rid of those boxes wasting shelf space.

DL is ok, but only if you have the bandwidth, and for most people I suspect they can drive to a store and back before the game finishes downloading. Valve also seems to require the use of Steam and it's DRM even if you purchase a physical version of the game rather than download. For downloading, consider GOG.com where you get DRM free games for download.

Patches can be problematic, because they're automatic by default (users may not know to turn this feature off), and you're unable to ever un-patch if it's broken (and this has happened where a bad patch has gone out).

As for release date, I never get a game on release date, that's just a bad idea; it's buggy, long wait in lines or long wait for downloads on an overloaded server, plus you need a month or two to hammer down all the bugs and time to wait for an honest review so you can see if it's worth buying in the first place.

Sure, Steam has advantages. But it also provides one giant whopper of a disadvantage.

Windows RT

[tepples]

wine is semi-sustainable, short of a major change to windows architecture

Windows Runtime, the API that powers the interface formerly known as Metro, is "a major change to windows architecture".

and break in backwards compatibility

Windows RT, the Windows-like operating system for ARM tablets, runs only Windows Runtime applications approved by Microsoft. There's your "break in backwards compatibility".

Re:Windows RT

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows Runtime, the API that powers the interface formerly known as Metro, is "a major change to windows architecture".

No it is an addition, not a change.

Windows RT, the Windows-like operating system for ARM tablets, runs only Windows Runtime applications approved by Microsoft. There's your "break in backwards compatibility".

The existence of Windows RT does not break backwards compatibility within the desktop versions of Windows which is what WINE is targeted at. Do you also believe Windows Phone breaks backwards compatibility in terms of WINE?

Re:Windows RT

[Lehk228]

do you have an announcement from Microsoft that they will be discontinuing silverlight for win32? or for that matter any indication that windows runtime is on track to succeed at all? last i checked there is not a single piece of PC software that is metro exclusive, aside from the windows 8 pack-ins

Put a Roku on a KVM

[tepples]

Maybe I'm the target niche market -- a Linux desktop user without a standalone TV

Then buy a Netflix compatible device and connect it to your desktop computer monitor's HDMI input. Use a KVM switch if needed.

Get Netflix or turn in your geek card

[tepples]

You do not need to see that movie or show.

You do if you need to keep your geek card current.

Re:Get Netflix or turn in your geek card

[Darinbob]

The original geeks were called that because they were nonconformist. So how is it that today to be called a proper geek you must do the same things that all other geeks do?

Re:Get Netflix or turn in your geek card

[Stuarticus]

Then why would you need or want a card?

Re:Get Netflix or turn in your geek card

[tepples]

If I fail to understand a Slashdot comment, for example, and I reply out of your lack of understanding, and it turns out that the comment that I misunderstood was a movie allusion, what often ends up happening is that the comment that I misunderstood gets modded up later by others who got the reference, my comment gets modded down as Overrated, and I lose karma for not getting the joke.

Re:Get Netflix or turn in your geek card

[rikkards]

Actually the original geeks were usually freaks of nature (wolf boy, siamese twins et al) aka the geek show.

Re:Get Netflix or turn in your geek card

[Dextrously]

I have my own -theory- on what defines a 'geek' or a 'nerd' that is a lot more loose though (in my opinion), in comparison to the 'geek card' implied stringency.

A geek is just someone who is obsessed with a hobby (work can be considered a hobby sometimes) that is outside of average cultural interests for others of similar stature. A nerd is someone who is not necessarily obsessed, but who generally desires mastery of a given topic or set of topics.

You can be both a nerd and a geek at the same time. In this case, it can be understandable why 'geeks' or 'nerds' from different areas can clash over what makes them a geek or a nerd, and why someone else should turn in their 'geek' and/or 'nerd' card. Also, we might label ourselves a specific type of geek or nerd and tell them that they are out of their jurisdiction. ;)

What do you think?

I already pay for...

[tepples]

Anonymous Coward wrote:

I already pay for an internet connection, so I'm not going to pay for netflix on top of it.

"I already pay for a DVD player, so I'm not going to pay for DVDs on top of it."

"I already pay for a game console, so I'm not going to pay for games on top of it."

"I already pay for a phone, so I'm not going to pay for international calling on top of it."

"I already pay for a car, so I'm not going to pay for gas on top of it."

Which of these sound unreasonable?

Re:I already pay for...

[Anonymous Coward]

Anonymous Coward wrote:

I already pay for an internet connection, so I'm not going to pay for netflix on top of it.

"I already pay for a DVD player, so I'm not going to pay for DVDs on top of it."

"I already pay for a game console, so I'm not going to pay for games on top of it."

"I already pay for a phone, so I'm not going to pay for international calling on top of it."

"I already pay for a car, so I'm not going to pay for gas on top of it."

Which of these sound unreasonable?

This is Slashdot. Thank goodness you finished with a car example.

Seriously?

[Anonymous Coward]

GTFO people..Want Unix? want a lovely shell? want apps? want netflix, get a Mac then... linux...please..

you do realize that was sarcasm, right?

but seriously... GTFO..

The Studios are the ones asking for DRM

[Camael]

Boycott Netflix. They don't want the business, don't give them money. Send the message DRM is unacceptable.

Is Netflix the right target though? What makes you think they want to have DRM in their product? The answer is, they don't. Netflix was forced by its content providers to use DRM.

Setting aside the debate around the value of content protection and DRM, they are requirements we must fulfill in order to obtain content from major studios for our subscribers to enjoy.

Netflix is not the only online delivery service forced to use DRM. Lovefilm, which operates in the UK was also forced to switch from using flash to Silverlight by the studios.

We’ve been asked to make this change by the Studios who provide us with the films in the first place, because they’re insisting – understandably – that we use robust security to protect their films from piracy, and they see the Silverlight software as more secure than Flash.

I agree that as customers, we should not have DRM forced on us. And yes, a consumer boycott is a way to show our displeasure. But to be consistent, target the true masterminds behind the DRM scheme, the movie studios by refusing to watch their movies on any medium. Consider this -if you boycott and kill Netflix, the studios will be happier because they earned more from the old system pre-Netflix.

Now, contrast the studios' dismal quarterly numbers with Netflix's performance during the same period. The video-rental service, which mails DVDs to subscribers as well as streams films and TV shows over the Web, added 3 million subscribers in the quarter--largely on the growing popularity of its streaming service, the company said.

It's not an apples-to-apples comparison, but it shows significant numbers of consumers are moving to Netflix, a service that all but eliminates the need to own movies.

Re:The Studios are the ones asking for DRM

[exomondo]

Is Netflix the right target though? What makes you think they want to have DRM in their product?

It's the same in the games console market, targeting the console makers is useless, sure they implement DRM but compare that to the free and open PC market and who are you going to go after? Dell or HP or Apple over the DRM in EA, Ubisoft and Steam games? No you have to go after the content publishers. Even if Sony - for example - were to release the Playstation without DRM the content publishers would still just do what they do in the PC market, it wouldn't change anything.

Re:The Studios are the ones asking for DRM

[hweimer]

Is Netflix the right target though? What makes you think they want to have DRM in their product? The answer is, they don't. Netflix was forced by its content providers to use DRM.

So, "House of Cards" is DRM-free, I suppose?

Re:The Studios are the ones asking for DRM

[MachineShedFred]

So Netflix is supposed to completely re-engineer their entire delivery system for their original content in order to help you make a point?

Re:The Studios are the ones asking for DRM

[hweimer]

So Netflix is supposed to completely re-engineer their entire delivery system for their original content in order to help you make a point?

Nobody has to re-engineer anything. If Netflix were against DRM as claimed, a small additional download link on their website for paying subscribers would not be too much to ask for.

So... a bit like Netflix Desktop?

[SighKoPath]

I've been using it for a year... plays netflix video just fine on my ubuntu laptop. http://www.compholio.com/netflix-desktop/

Re:So... a bit like Netflix Desktop?

[kermidge]

Great! Another one, thanks. I've been posting info about Compholio since last year every time Netflix on Linux comes up and it's been like talking to a brick wall.

How does android/chromeOS manage to get netflix

[goombah99]

ChromeOS/android are linux based. THey show netflix. so what's the issue here?

Re:How does android/chromeOS manage to get netflix

[kermidge]

Pipelight looks a handy bit of kit and a fine project.

But I've been watching Netflix natively on my Ubuntu desktop just fine since last year. See Compholio.

http://compholio.com/ or search on "netflix linux" or similar to cast a wider net.

There are deb and rpm packages in 32- and 64-bit; you can subscribe to the ppa or compile as you choose. I don't know what distros this will work on as I've only used it on my host OS with Firefox. (I used to watch Netflix from within an XP vm using VirtualBox.)

Re:How does android/chromeOS manage to get netflix

[CadentOrange]

They're gradually shifting to HTML5, with support for Windows 8.1 and IE11. Strange choice of browser. Apparently IE11 is the only browser at the moment that supports the "Premium Video Extensions". These will be extended to other browsers once the support is available.

I assume that the iOS and Android clients just stream the video directly, bypassing the browser and hence the need for Silverlight.

Re:How does android/chromeOS manage to get netflix

[makomk]

Netflix on ChromeOS is locked to Google-authorised hardware. The newer HTML5 EME-based version apparently won't even run unless the hardware is locked down to only run Google-signed kernels and programs - flipping the switch to enable developer mode disables it altogether. Once HTML5 EME becomes widespread and Netflix is able to switch to it on other platforms we can probably say bye-bye to Netflix on Linux for good - but don't worry, it'll be an 100% web standards compliant, plugin-free solution.

Re:How does android/chromeOS manage to get netflix

[Karzz1]

The advantage of pipelight is that you no longer have to run a 32-bit windows version of Firefox under wine. Pipelight is a two part program that utilizes a native Firefox plugin ( ie. FF on Linux ) to pipe required Silverlight bits to a service running under wine. This is much more efficient and much closer to a native solution.

Re:How does android/chromeOS manage to get netflix

[Karzz1]

I should have mentioned the site you linked to is that of the author of the "netflix-desktop" for Linux. This group of packages uses a Windows Firefox running under wine.

Re:How does android/chromeOS manage to get netflix

[Anonymous Coward]

ChromeOS and Android are DRM friendly. Linux isn't, and netflixk doesn't trust you.

Same reason google won't release a linux drive client, non technical reasons.

Re:How does android/chromeOS manage to get netflix

[kermidge]

Yes, thank you; I was aware of those things. I had no intention of springing surprises on anyone or misrepresenting what's what; I simply pointed out that an easy-to-use solution for watching Netflix existed and has worked nicely for me since last Fall, and figured folks could see what the deal was. I've been trying to point out the Eric Hoover's solution for some time because it works. For me it's less hassle than using a Windows vm just to watch a movie.

I'm glad to see others tackling the issue of Silverlight and related stuff. (Somewhere I had links from last summer when Eric and another fellow were working to get their fix effective and stable; it was interesting to me to try to follow some of what they had to do.)

I want to try Pipelight but haven't gotten to it yet. I hope when I do it won't mess me up with the Netflix folks seeing two installs on one machine or whatever. It looks quite interesting; from the description I read and what you've posted it sounds a nifty and clean way of going about things.

Thanks again for your informative and helpful posts. I know more than I started with and that's a good thing.

Re:How does android/chromeOS manage to get netflix

[Anonymous Coward]

Hopefully this will be the last MS bandwagon companies jump on. It was a failure before it got out of the gate.

Here's how I'd implement Netflix on Linux...

[Entropius]

... just to make a point:

1) Emulate a Windows browser in wine or similar (or even a full VM), complete with the DRM stack
2) Load Netflix and stream whatever it is you want to stream, but redirect the output to a framebuffer (netflix has no HDCP when run in a browser, does it?)
3) Recompress the contents of the framebuffer using some fast but inefficient high quality algorithm and save it to disk
4) Allow the Linux user to do whatever the fuck she wants with it, either watch it or reencode it for storage later

The DRM folks can't win. VM tricks aside, the real analog hole is open pretty wide for video. I have a consumer-level DSLR that will shoot 6000x4000 video at 6fps with no frame limit and negligible noise. It demolishes anything a HDTV can display as far as resolution goes. Getting one of those electronic shutter triggers ($25 from Nikon) and syncing it with the frame updates would let you scrape every frame displayed in 4 (24 fps) or 5 (30 fps) passes through the source. From there you've just got to do a curves adjustment to restore the original source pixel values (accommodating for calibration issues on your monitor and such).

Do this with a good monitor and I bet you could get really damn close to the original quality; modern SLR sensors and lenses are good enough for this. If you're too lazy to scrape it in stills mode, you can get a camera for under $1500 that will record near-losslessly-compressed 1080p video, and that you can use with reasonably inexpensive lenses that are essentially transparent.

And it takes *one* person to do this and torrent the result. Netflix can't stop this sort of thing.

Re:Here's how I'd implement Netflix on Linux...

[drinkypoo]

Do this with a good monitor and I bet you could get really damn close to the original quality; modern SLR sensors and lenses are good enough for this.

Is this a troll, or do you truly believe that you can develop a rig that won't mangle the quality of the source, especially when Netflix is doing shit like changing the bandwidth on the fly?

Re:Here's how I'd implement Netflix on Linux...

[Anonymous Coward]

or just use something like FRAPS and record it on-the-fly, instead of trying to set up a camera to look at an artificially lit screen *and* trying to record stereo/5.1 audio.

Re:Here's how I'd implement Netflix on Linux...

[Entropius]

I do believe that, given a few thousand dollars of equipment, you could. (Yes, you're limited to whatever Netflix is going to send you, but if ultimately what Netflix is worried about is someone decrypting their DRM'd stream, you can't do any better than that as an attack.) No, it won't be a perfect bitwise copy. But it could be Good Enough (defined as "any mangling done is small compared to whatever mangling got done in the video compression step by Netflix to fit it through the pipe in the first place".)

No, you don't need to resort to things like that yet: as I (and others) have pointed out, there are other ways to go about it right now. The point, which you seem to have missed, is that the "analog hole" argument that "you can't DRM audio" also applies to video these days. It's not come to that, because there are easier ways to pirate video. But the point is that ordinary people can get access to good enough A/V equipment these days that they can exploit the analog hole against video DRM as well.

Eurosport, anyone tried it ?

[Anonymous Coward]

cos that is keeping my windows box alive

Fuggit

[ikhider]

I still visit video stores to get my film/anime-watching kicks. I like renting the discs, watching the extras and the like. If I really like a movie, I but the DVD/BLURAY. On the Libre-GNU/Linux side, there is a little program called "Streamtuner2" that lets me watch some cool shows on occassion. I think I can catch the BBC and AlJazeera streaming too. I can stream Anime from crunchyroll. There isn't really a lot on netflix to entice me...

Didn't this was possible

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought the whole selling point of Microsoft's DRM was that it validates every component used when playing the video, including all drivers and DLLs involved.

Compholio does the trick

[Anonymous Coward]

Compholio PPA has been delivering a working WINEed Netflix for months, works fine...

Netflix Desktop App for Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.iheartubuntu.com/2012/11/ppa-for-netflix-desktop-app.html

Works great and installs everything you need.

Roku?

[Beorytis]

I don't use Netflix, but I'm curious if anyone here knows: How does the (Linux-based IIRC) Roku player accomplish Netflix playback if Silverlight is required?

Re:Roku?

[suutar]

Netflix has software for embedded linux (several flavors), just not for desktop/laptop linux. Being embedded in hardware designed to avoid letting the bits out easily is considered 'adequate' by the content owners.

Apps developed exclusively for the addition

[tepples]

No it is an addition, not a change.

If enough popular applications come to be developed exclusively for the addition, then not supporting the addition means not supporting those applications. The existence of Windows RT encourages professional developers to support only the addition to save costs by developing once and running on both Windows RT and Windows 8, as well as Xbox One if the rumors are correct. I imagine that this will become more common in about a year and a half when Windows 7 leaves mainstream support.

Re:Apps developed exclusively for the addition

[Anonymous Coward]

If enough popular applications come to be developed exclusively for the addition, then not supporting the addition means not supporting those applications.

which is nothing at all to do with backwards compatibility as you claim. it would be a lack of support going forward.

The existence of Windows RT encourages professional developers to support only the addition to save costs by developing once and running on both Windows RT and Windows 8

oh dear. they cant even sell the damn product much less have developers commit to the restrictive environment to support them. as a developer i would much rather use a native code base that i could run on Windows (not RT/Phone), OSX, Linux, iOS and Android, I could even use an OpenGL-based UI which would across all those platforms yet not work on Windows RT/Phone. excluding Windows RT/Phone means excluding a rounding error in terms of market share that requires a huge additional effort to support.

Does It Matter Anymore?

[assertation]

Does it matter anymore?

This option wasn't here when streaming on Netflix was no extra charge for people with accounts. Now, I can see almost anything I want to, for free, without pipelight ( or netflix ) via European based online streaming sites.

I could be wrong, but given that the online streaming sites are someone else's server and in Europe, I am legally safe ( correct me if I am wrong )

there is what open source excels at

[apexwm]

It is poor on netflix to ignore users and turn away business. However this demonstrates the power of open source software and how it can adapt. This will help a lot of people that dumped Windows to at least use the proprietary netflix services. Now we just need to get around Adobe dropping the ball with developing Flash Player for Linux. Hopefully open source developers can pick up the slack there as well. I put Adobe in the same category as netflix, the LAME category.

Stupid question...

[gravis777]

But wouldn't this mean that they are circumventing DRM? In that case, isn't this a violation of the DMCA?

the solution is simple

[Anonymous Coward]

watch your movies on movie4k.to

Oh, come on

[bjoswald]

Now this is just ridiculous. Why do they have to use such crappy plugins like Silverlight (which MS themselves are abandoning)? Why do they care how we browse their service and watch their videos, so long as we do so legally? Just make it HTML5 or some other open standard and let everyone watch without jumping through insane hoops or downloading obsolete (and potentially vulnerable) plugins.