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Netflix Comes To Linux Web Browsers Via 'Pipelight'
An anonymous reader writes "With Netflix continuing to rely upon Microsoft Silverlight, the video streaming service hasn't been supported for Linux users as the Mono-based 'Moonlight' implementation goes without Silverlight 5 DRM support. However, there is now Netflix support for Linux-based web-browsers via the open source Pipelight project. Pipelight supports Netflix and other Silverlight-based web applications by having a Netscape plug-in that in turn communicates with a Windows program running under Wine. The Windows program then simulates a browser to load the Silverlight libraries. Netflix then works as the Pipelight developers implemented support for the Netflix DRM scheme within Wine."
It's not important enough for me to have to do this. I know my market share isn't big enough to matter to Netflix but still.
When Microsoft abandons Silverlight, Windows users will still be able to watch Netflix through Pipelight through Netscape through Wine through Cygwin through, er, I must have missed a few steps or what ?
Boycott Netflix. They don't want the business, don't give them money. Send the message DRM is unacceptable.
The little cage drops over the mouse, and you win!
you might as well just run windows through virtual box, i bet the performance is pretty horrible
At some point you just spend $130 and buy an Android tablet at wally world. Or a $50 Roku.
Yes, this is rather silly. I use my PS3, Tivo, and my Asus Transformer. They all work just fine with Netflix.
I wonder why they just didn't disassemble the DRM. Whack it in a debugger and see what it is doing.
That is how Bluray fell.
Sure it is hard, but decoding it via Wine isn't?
But the end goal is to get joe-on-the-street to watch NetFlix on Linux. And this does give good performance, with the usual linux gpu caveats.
Drops frames on my AMD machine, but my roomie's nVidia is all smooth sailing even at SuperHD.
First of all, claiming to "come to linux" but only working under WINE is not really coming to linux at all. You can run Windows Notepad under WINE as well.
Secondly, WINE (with win32 compatiblity) is not officially supported on native 64 bit Linux systems unless you have 32-bit libraries installed. While this is probably fine if you are only installing binaries, but for distributions which install some applications by compiling them from source, it can cause some consternation when building some applications because the linker might end up trying to use the libraries in the 32 bit library directory instead of the 64-bit one which causes what's supposed to be an automated build process to fail, abruptly and unceremoniously. Although such errors are ultimately the result of faulty assumptions in the actual build script, and not the fault of actually trying to use both 32 and 64-bit libraries simultaneously on one platform, such errors are still frequent enough to be annoying... and I'd rather not deal with them.
Finally... it's Netflix. Their movie selection sucks.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Y'know, I read through the summary twice, and both times concluded that there's about a 1% chance of this whole mess working. Too many things relying on too many other things relying on too many other things.
Although having the word "Netscape" in there.....
Three Squirrels
Windows only? Works just fine on OS X without hacks and compatibility layers.
If it's so easy, get on it. Have something by the end of the week. K thanks.
Real standards? Like what, HTML5 ECE? You're going to end up with a completely closed binary blob via that path as well. Of course, Netflix has already chosen which ECE module they're going to use -- Microsoft's. So zero problems solved, and now we have yet another plugin API.
Wouldn't it be easier to run an android image in a virtual machine and just use the android netflix app?
Point is, "netflix-desktop" performance is craptastic at best. On an ION2 mobo that plays 1080p without issues I am lucky to get 15 fps on that thing.
Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
Or maybe "Keysone Kops" is a more accurate characterization.
... make a netscape plugin, that loads windows netscape plugins? Sortof like plugin-host.exe Firefox uses? Or is it like that already?
Real standards? Like what, HTML5 ECE? You're going to end up with a completely closed binary blob via that path as well.
Just compile or port the damn code they already have working on Linux Android Mobiles for Linux Destops. Some of us will use closed source crap if we have to, like GPU drivers, or games, etc. IMO, I have to have the OS stack open source for important things -- like making sure the software I write and use for work has a path forward without planned obsolescence -- but games and media? Meh. Netflix is just making it harder on us Linux Desktop Folks because of pressure from MAFIAA types who think "freetards are de pirates", when in reality, using a free and open source OS has nothing to do with wanting to get things for zero cost.
And, no, the problem's not "solved", as it doesn't seem to work correctly on my x64 or ARM Linux boxen for some strange reason... I'd fix it in my spare time rather than use a VM instead, but it's closed source, so they don't let me help them. I'll just use any of the other streaming services, or a combination, because $30 bux a month and $8 a month is nothing. Hell, I was paying hundreds for cable plans before I cut that TV cord, so the money's not the issue... And it's just as easy to "pirate" content on a Windows install within or without running it in a VM.
Also, isn't Windows the most pirated OS? Well, no one ever accused the MAFIAA of being smart. They're just losing money to prop up a dying business model.
I was under the impression that Bluray players and smart TVs (especially samsung) run an embedded linux. How are they able to stream netflix?
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
I watch netflix in ubuntu. I accomplished it by adding one rep and installing one package. It manages the wine version, the windows firefox version, the silverlight version, and whatever other unholy nonsense is involved in making it work. The only glitch is that sometimes the audio is on fastforward when I first start watching something and I have to wait for it to go back to normal, then start the show over. This is on a relatively ancient macbook (it has an ethernet port), and it is still fast enough.
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
wine is semi-sustainable, short of a major change to windows architecture and break in backwards compatibility new versions of silverlight can be loaded up as they are released.
cracking the DRM will only last to the next point release, which will be accelerated in response to the DRM being cracked
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
I'll show my Netflix love when they are able to produce a native Linux binary.
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I thought the whole point of these elaborate DRM schemes was to prevent the movies from being played in an emulated or virtualized envirnment where the video could be intercepted.
If it does, why bother?
Makes me wonder... I somehow doubt that the PS3, Tivo or Asus Transformer have Silverlight so the DRM itself likely isn't a Silverlight exclusive. Why aren't there smart people foaming at the mouth to reverse-engineer that stuff? I guess Netflix is mostly a US service and countries where doing such reverse-engineering isn't illegal have no incentive? There are already plenty of people working on Blueray DRM and what not, I can't see this being as complicated.
Mind the frickin' laser...
On that note, has anyone else noticed Silverlight being pushed out to WSUS servers as another important Windows update? Three times?
As in, when we choose "Do not install, and don't tell me again", it re-appears in the subsequent two update runs. This is the second time this has happened in as many years.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Send the encrypted content to the cloud on a Windows system running as a virtual machine in a Linux box. Have the Windows decrypt it and display it full-screen. Capture the output of the virtual machine and re-encode it. Finally, transfer the unencrypted content back to the user.
The next point release of Silverlight? Don't hold your breath.
IMO, the way things look right now, Netflix is morely likely to switch off of Silverlight than Microsoft is to release a new version of Silverlight.
...if you run Android! I'm no expert on programming, but if works in Android's flavor of Linux, why can't it be ported to the other distros?
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If they want to take the black box route, then fine--they can write a native program with their DRM crap built in, compile it and package it for the major distributions (.deb, .rpm, .txz, .tar.bz2/.tar.gz). And keep the damn thing up to date, fully patched and supported, unlike Adobe's treatment of Flash on Linux.
I'd rather use that than a glorified set of hacks produced purely from reverse engineering a foreign black box like Windows and tricking it to think that it's running yet another black box (Silverlight) natively. And that would be better than corrupting a standard like HTML with DRM in a way, but I'll take some kind of HTML5 support over a pure binary blob that is maintained by a company who would probably not write a very good program to begin with. And besides, face it, it's DRM--it will be cracked in record time, especially being a part of an official spec if they do integrate it with the standard. They can't win with such a ridiculous joke of a "security" tool. If they write a program, probably every "security update" will be 95% potential breaking of their DRM, while they neglect the actual, real security issues.
A binary package would still be unacceptable, because it would continue to leave BSD users out. But, well, that's what happens with proprietary software, and honestly I doubt that a lot of BSD users would care because they tend to be much more forgiving of proprietary software. But maybe the HTML5 method could work. Although the standard would be contaminated in the process, and broken all to hell long before HTML5 is even complete.
If you want to juggle multiple browsers, one only for silverlight, then use netflix-desktop. Otherwise use Pipelight.
Anyone who is frustrated that they can't watch for-pay TV streaming is probably not doing a lot of hacking apart DRM algorithms. If it was a free encrypted stream they'd be all over it, just for the challenge.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Is that all! If you aren't piping it through 3 firewalls, 2 satellites and a dial up connection, you just aren't trying hard enough.
Makes me wonder... I somehow doubt that the PS3, Tivo or Asus Transformer have Silverlight so the DRM itself likely isn't a Silverlight exclusive. Why aren't there smart people foaming at the mouth to reverse-engineer that stuff? I guess Netflix is mostly a US service and countries where doing such reverse-engineering isn't illegal have no incentive?
More likely because you can already get the shows Netflix has by DLding, without depending on Netflix as the source.
But you're ignoring the fact that other people just aren't as complacent as you. Some developers out there try to do things just to prove to themselves that they can. Netflix has already announced they're working on moving to HTML5 and even Microsoft has publicly shown its lack of substantive support for Silverlight as a long term technology so Pipelight is just a neat project that addresses a long-standing issue for a lot of Linux users, even if it is just a relatively short-lived one.
So ignoring all the smug, self-absorbed comments, I think it's very notable.
Honestly, it's more than likely the content holders' fault that the DRM binary has to be Windows only.
Yes, the DRM is windows only.
And Macs.
And iphones.
And xboxes
And playstation 3
And Wii
And Roku
And chromebooks.
And android tablets and phones.
Really its mostly a joke that there isn't a better linux solution at this point.
only fittingly, the first content you should watch on netflix after setting this up is a marathon of rube goldberg cartoons.
*** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
Just like Steam, the customers happily accept being branded with a hot iron as long as they're also given a carrot.
While I agree broadly with the main thrust of your argument (they should really stop fraudulently advertising that you 'own' digital products when you so clearly don't) I think your characterisation of Steam users here is inappropriate.
For a majority of Steam users, I believe, it is a simple matter of economics and convenience. The benefits can be rather compelling :-
1) During periodic Steam sales, the games could be substantially cheaper than a retail box. Sometimes up to 75% or more.
2) You can DL the game and play it on the same day.
3) You dont have to physically travel to the store.
4) You don't have to hunt for and patch your own games.
5) You don't have to deal with harassed sales staff on release days.
Most Steam users I believe, have done up the sums and are willing to give up the privilege of owning their games for these benefits. It is a choice they make. For those who insist on owning their games, as in the old days, they can still buy retail boxes. That is also their choice, a different choice but a no less valid one based on their personal values.
If you are concerned about the dilution of the First Sale Doctrine and ownership rights generally, I agree that it is a concern. As individual consumers however, when it comes to non-essentials like games and entertainment, we always have the power to vote with our wallets. The most recent example is the furor over the drm of XBoxOne which eventually caused MS to reverse their policy.
wine is semi-sustainable, short of a major change to windows architecture
Windows Runtime, the API that powers the interface formerly known as Metro, is "a major change to windows architecture".
and break in backwards compatibility
Windows RT, the Windows-like operating system for ARM tablets, runs only Windows Runtime applications approved by Microsoft. There's your "break in backwards compatibility".
Maybe I'm the target niche market -- a Linux desktop user without a standalone TV
Then buy a Netflix compatible device and connect it to your desktop computer monitor's HDMI input. Use a KVM switch if needed.
You do not need to see that movie or show.
You do if you need to keep your geek card current.
And the FreeBSD that runs my BluRay player I use for Netflix...
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I already pay for an internet connection, so I'm not going to pay for netflix on top of it.
"I already pay for a DVD player, so I'm not going to pay for DVDs on top of it."
"I already pay for a game console, so I'm not going to pay for games on top of it."
"I already pay for a phone, so I'm not going to pay for international calling on top of it."
"I already pay for a car, so I'm not going to pay for gas on top of it."
Which of these sound unreasonable?
Boycott Netflix. They don't want the business, don't give them money. Send the message DRM is unacceptable.
Is Netflix the right target though? What makes you think they want to have DRM in their product? The answer is, they don't. Netflix was forced by its content providers to use DRM.
Netflix is not the only online delivery service forced to use DRM. Lovefilm, which operates in the UK was also forced to switch from using flash to Silverlight by the studios.
I agree that as customers, we should not have DRM forced on us. And yes, a consumer boycott is a way to show our displeasure. But to be consistent, target the true masterminds behind the DRM scheme, the movie studios by refusing to watch their movies on any medium. Consider this -if you boycott and kill Netflix, the studios will be happier because they earned more from the old system pre-Netflix.
They kind of did. http://www.itworld.com/software/358908/install-netflix-ubuntu-1304 At least it works pretty well for me over here on mint.
MouseClass extends ScrollClass, which extends TabClass, which extends SidebarClass, which extends PowerClass, w
I've been using it for a year... plays netflix video just fine on my ubuntu laptop. http://www.compholio.com/netflix-desktop/
ChromeOS/android are linux based. THey show netflix. so what's the issue here?
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
... just to make a point:
1) Emulate a Windows browser in wine or similar (or even a full VM), complete with the DRM stack
2) Load Netflix and stream whatever it is you want to stream, but redirect the output to a framebuffer (netflix has no HDCP when run in a browser, does it?)
3) Recompress the contents of the framebuffer using some fast but inefficient high quality algorithm and save it to disk
4) Allow the Linux user to do whatever the fuck she wants with it, either watch it or reencode it for storage later
The DRM folks can't win. VM tricks aside, the real analog hole is open pretty wide for video. I have a consumer-level DSLR that will shoot 6000x4000 video at 6fps with no frame limit and negligible noise. It demolishes anything a HDTV can display as far as resolution goes. Getting one of those electronic shutter triggers ($25 from Nikon) and syncing it with the frame updates would let you scrape every frame displayed in 4 (24 fps) or 5 (30 fps) passes through the source. From there you've just got to do a curves adjustment to restore the original source pixel values (accommodating for calibration issues on your monitor and such).
Do this with a good monitor and I bet you could get really damn close to the original quality; modern SLR sensors and lenses are good enough for this. If you're too lazy to scrape it in stills mode, you can get a camera for under $1500 that will record near-losslessly-compressed 1080p video, and that you can use with reasonably inexpensive lenses that are essentially transparent.
And it takes *one* person to do this and torrent the result. Netflix can't stop this sort of thing.
They kind of did.
No, they didn't. That's just running Netflix under Wine, nothing to do with reverse-engineering it.
They don't trust the environment that black box would be running in...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
I still visit video stores to get my film/anime-watching kicks. I like renting the discs, watching the extras and the like. If I really like a movie, I but the DVD/BLURAY. On the Libre-GNU/Linux side, there is a little program called "Streamtuner2" that lets me watch some cool shows on occassion. I think I can catch the BBC and AlJazeera streaming too. I can stream Anime from crunchyroll. There isn't really a lot on netflix to entice me...
"SO we bide our time, waiting for a purer kick to bloom and the future is still bleak, uncertain and beautiful" -GSYBE
http://thepiratebay.sx/
Real life is overrated.
That isn't actually how Bluray fell. It is how most people expected Bluray to fall.
Bluray fell because parts of memory containing cryptographic keys have different (much more) entropy than other parts of memory, so if you somehow stop execution of the program at the right moment, all you need to do is search through memory for anything that looks like a key and see if it works.
The authors of software players are apparently very good at writing code which cannot be debugged (a trait they share with most programmers...), but it is difficult to do decryption if you cannot store the key in an easy-to-read format.
Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
Nah, they had ambitions of beating Adobe Flash. If that was going to happen, they couldn't ignore so many laptop, yuppie, and college users.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
http://www.iheartubuntu.com/2012/11/ppa-for-netflix-desktop-app.html
Works great and installs everything you need.
I don't use Netflix, but I'm curious if anyone here knows: How does the (Linux-based IIRC) Roku player accomplish Netflix playback if Silverlight is required?
No it is an addition, not a change.
If enough popular applications come to be developed exclusively for the addition, then not supporting the addition means not supporting those applications. The existence of Windows RT encourages professional developers to support only the addition to save costs by developing once and running on both Windows RT and Windows 8, as well as Xbox One if the rumors are correct. I imagine that this will become more common in about a year and a half when Windows 7 leaves mainstream support.
Does it matter anymore?
This option wasn't here when streaming on Netflix was no extra charge for people with accounts. Now, I can see almost anything I want to, for free, without pipelight ( or netflix ) via European based online streaming sites.
I could be wrong, but given that the online streaming sites are someone else's server and in Europe, I am legally safe ( correct me if I am wrong )
It is poor on netflix to ignore users and turn away business. However this demonstrates the power of open source software and how it can adapt. This will help a lot of people that dumped Windows to at least use the proprietary netflix services. Now we just need to get around Adobe dropping the ball with developing Flash Player for Linux. Hopefully open source developers can pick up the slack there as well. I put Adobe in the same category as netflix, the LAME category.
But wouldn't this mean that they are circumventing DRM? In that case, isn't this a violation of the DMCA?
Erm they were found using debuggers. You can make it tricky to debug but not impossible.
They slowed the execution speed of the code and just waited for the keys to be decrypted then they copied the memory.
It wasn't easy because the keys have higher entropy, it was easy because they are a fixed size.
Not much in computing uses large fixed size numbers like encryption does. When they start getting used they stand out and can easily be extracted.
Now this is just ridiculous. Why do they have to use such crappy plugins like Silverlight (which MS themselves are abandoning)? Why do they care how we browse their service and watch their videos, so long as we do so legally? Just make it HTML5 or some other open standard and let everyone watch without jumping through insane hoops or downloading obsolete (and potentially vulnerable) plugins.