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Write Windows Phone Apps, No Code Required
jfruh writes "One of the biggest challenges Microsoft has faced with its Windows Phone platform is that it's far behind in the apps race against iOS and Android. One way to close the gap is to lower the barrier to entry for new app devs, and Microsoft has done so with Windows Phone App Studio, a hosted service that lets you build applications without actually writing any code. The description of how App Studio works may leave you wondering how useful or exciting the apps created will be, but a surge of developer interest during the current beta program has surprised even Microsoft with its scope."
So, it has come to this.
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
Anyone remember that stuff? Or RPG Maker as a kid (and RPG Maker 2001, etc.)? There are a few others I'm missing.
The G
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Google have some sort of non-programmer graphical Android app maker. Didn't said same software get discontinued due to lack of interest?
I'm getting old. My memory is getting foggy.
Do you have the option of writing code, or does the system disallow it entirely?
Technoli
If you're creating an application that hasn't existed yet, you're instructing the computer as to how to do something, i.e., you're programming, i.e., you're creating code in one way or another. Either that, or the environment is so limited as to make the "write apps" part completely meaningless.
Ezekiel 23:20
is S.H.I.T.
"hosted service"
...has no value.
Are people charging money for this? I mean what would you be paying for?
Android had something like this, and I believe it went the way of the dodo. Much like this probably will too.
Some might say MS programmers don't really know how to code, so making an app that codes without coding is just coming full circle.
Wait, I think there is a meme in there. "hey, I hear you wanted to code some code without coding."
Be seeing you...
I remember Nokia launching a bit of software like this for Symbian back in its dying days; you could use it to make a mobile-friendly, self-contained version of any RSS feed you felt like pointing it at. That was in the days when mobile-optimised sites were just starting to become A Thing and few of the optimised sites were intended for 2.6-inch QVGA displays. Probably came out of them.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/03/nokia-launches-ovi-app-wizard-will-probably-lead-to-ovi-populat/
It looks like it has since been replaced by something with a bit more flexibility:
http://xpresswebapps.nokia.com/
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
I suspect that -- other than wiring up GUI elements to events -- there aren't a lot of interesting things you can do with a GUI-based code builder that you can't do more efficiently by writing actual code.
I gather that the idea is to lower the bar for "Hello World"-type apps, but once that's done, I have to wonder: are any serious app developers using this as a development bed for complex apps?
Koans and fables for the software engineer
You seem to be writing an app. Would you like help?
Here's betting this will be just as useful.
Slashdot - News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters, in ISO-8859-1 Has just realised that beta makes this signature redundant
Program a program without programing the program for the program?
If you check the unity3d forums, you will see a few hundred people that have a great idea for a game and it always reads sort of like this:
It's like, so basically... it's Skyrim for iOS/Android. So who wants to code this for me? Obviously since I am the idea man I will keep the MILLJIONS of dollars it will make, because writing code is easy, I just don't have time to learn because I am too important or have ADD. I did find some great free models on turbosquid though, just need someone to make them move.. what's it called, rigging? Oh and texture too. Since I did the hard part of finding these models, that last part should be really simple, but I'll pay you out of the HUGE profits of my game.
Well Microsoft, I applaud you. You have given these idea men, these mental giants, a fertile ground of milk and honey! We lowly coders and artists will sorely miss them in our forums, but wish them bon voyage on this, their great and noble endeavor!
check the top free apps - none could be made without code
it looks like MS wants quantity instead of quality - no wonder the only informative thing TFA has is the number of users and projects.
a surge of developer interest during the current beta program has surprised even Microsoft
Is this another one of those things where the developer interest went from 1 developer to 3 developers and they're excited about a 300% increase in developer interest? I think we've been there before.
Sing it with me
99 fart apps are waiting to be made,
99 fart apps are waiting,
Sign up to App Studio and make your own fart app,
98 fart apps are waiting to be made.
98 fart apps are waiting to be made,
98 fart apps are waiting,
Oh, you know how it goes...
Seriously though, you can select your App's logo from a set of available ones, or use your own!
How much of your coding is REALLY custom stuff?
Menus, screens, input fields, displaying data, etc ... are all the same things. Aside from custom looking things, the underlying code is pull data from input field, do something, and then display.
Right?
Speaking as someone who has written waaayyyy too much boiler plate 'C' code, and way to much boiler plate C# code code, and too much Python, C++, etc ...
I can safely say that much of our typing is needless. It was worse back in the Win32/OS/2 'C' days - those endless 'switch' statements to capture the messages! C++ and later C# was a Godsend! And then the generation of the base app and sort of gui dev of VS was AWESOME! (Again, MS Visual Studio dev team - I love you!)
And to point out what is constantly being said here on Slashdot, it's all about algorithms.
Writing yet another GUI something or another is boring and pointless - I just want to implement my algorithm. If I can drag and drop 90% (or more) of what I have to do, I'm still programming. Because I'm the one who's organizing the pieces.
Oh gawd, this is causing flashbacks of FileMaker Pro programming...I want to poke my eyes out with rusty daggers, and cut my right hand off with a drill press...
(For those who have had the pleasure of never being forced to "code" in FileMaker, it's a "database" programming environment similar to, say, MS Access in that it's a self-contained relational DBMS; however, adding "code" is done by using your mouse, with relatively few control structures. It's not free-form coding, it's predefined lines in a listbox where the "programmer" can add conditions to IF or LOOP blocks, iterative lines might not work sometimes, etc. Kludge City. All this designed for a 17" monitor with disproportionately-sized dialog controls. Imagine all the fun you can have!)
I just created brand new fart app without writing any code!
This approach informed the development of MS Access and that certainly left behind no long-term maintenance problems.
One of the big drawbacks of Apple is the idea that you should be able to easily use apple products to promote creativity, as long as the creativity doesn't involve creating an "app" or programming an Apple product in any personal way. At that point, you're shoved into massive restrictions, high cost, and weird programming languages to discourage kids and novices from coding. Android is much more open with their philosophy, but their tools are hardly user friendly for the curious would-be programmer. Microsoft is being smart here and sticking with their roots. While Apple diverged from what made them a big company in the first place (the openness and flexibility of the Apple II), Microsoft seems to be returning to their core philosophy of "Developers, developers, developers" of all types, shapes and sizes. Remember that Microsoft got its start with BASIC for beginning programmers, and one of their biggest products of all time has been Visual Basic--a tool for simple programming. Allowing people to easily create smartphone content for themselves is one easy and smart way to differentiate themselves from their competitors. It seems that after flirting with the idea that they must copy Apple, Microsoft has hopefully decided to do what Microsoft does best--make semi-open systems that are easy to program and customize for users.
No, these things last forever. It's going to be a cottage industry that never dies, like FrontPage websites and Access databases.
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Once one runs up against such a limitation, one either moves on to a real programming environment, or a real programmer has to write a new widget / block to meet the need.
Not opensource, but free for people running Windows:
http://www.sanscript.net/
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
The best way MS can increase the number of apps available on their platform is to allow Sideloading. Right now the biggest problem for a hobbyist developer is not the lack of dev tools (VS is one of the best dev platforms), but the fact that I cannot run an app I make on my phone without paying MS an annual fee.
Allow hobbyists to write and run apps on their phones, and they might create something which they feel can be sold on the app store, at which point you can start charging them for a dev license. But not many hobbyists will pay upfront to tinker with their phones which they already own.
Basically, make it easy for people to run apps on Windows phone, and you will automatically increase the number of available apps.
Flood the app store with thousands of shitty apps so no one can find the ones that are actually useful. I wonder how well that will work for them.
Ascalante: Your bride is over 3,000 years old.
Kull: She told me she was 19!
Indeed. I have even come across old Lotus Approach databases. FileMaker is still used by some companies, as well. Microsoft will be able to capture the non-expert enthusiast to try something. Those that really like it will step up to the full SDK and get more advance.
Bearded Dragon
Windows Phone's problem is not that apps are too hard to write. It is that the mega-low market share doesn't provide any incentive to code for that platform.
but a surge of developer interest during the current beta program has surprised even Microsoft with its scope."
Back when Windows Phone 7 was new, Microsoft released the number of developers (ie, number of free downloads for Visual Studio for WP7). It was something like 20 million downloads, if my memory is correct. If that number were actually representative, it would mean that there was one developer for every four users or something.
They released the developer number because the sales numbers were so bad they didn't want to release those.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
I had a horrible experience lately. I was at the dealer to get an oil change. They have these nice imacs at every station. I took a look at the screen while after walking away, to discover that they were using filemaker pro, along with a remote desktop connection to a Windows terminal server that had a different dos program running. Looked great and modern from a distance ...
This slashvertisment is a courtesy of Microsoft.
Obviously this is just a ploy to increase the number of Apps on their store, to make it look more populated and active than it really is.
soylentnews.org
microsoft is retarded. they should realize by now that every time they try and oversimplify something related to programming, they end up making it more difficult than actually coding...just look at the .net stuff in visual studio... it is totally worthless. or look at wordpress(which isnt done by microsoft), it is more difficult for anyone to use after the site is created.
Yes, creating software without having to know shit about software development has been the wet dream of the business monkeys at MS ever since they took the company over from the geeks.
But of course it doesn't work. Never has, never will. If you don't feel like putting up with those weird geek types who don't follow your MBA pseudo-logic and bullshit bingo, then get out of the computer business into something where actually knowing anything doesn't matter. Like, say, banking.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
>that it's far behind in the apps race
Yeah, the lack of stopwatch apps and Napoleon Dynamite soundboards are really holding the platform back!
Most linux users don't know this, but the man pages were named after Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris fsck'ing hates noobs!
With ASIC's and FPGA's, circuits would be much more natural. But they use HDL's instead. For anything complicated, HDL's are easier to produce and more maintainable. Similarly, for anything even remotely complicated, code is easier to produce and maintain than any kind of diagram. This is not going to take off.
I think most of the posters here are terribly short-sighted. While I tend to doubt that this approach for creating apps is going to fuel the next internet craze or result in commercial-grade apps, there are a whole lot of other things that it can be used for. I'm thinking, for example of real-estate apps for those people who want to sell their house without engaging a professional real-estate agent. Or a simple app for controlling a model-railroad, or a diy Halloween or Christmas display. It would be like programming in PICAXE BASIC - completely useless for the professional developer, but much more accessible for those who are not trained in programming.
Stick up your nose in the air as much as you like, but it's useful to lots of other people.
Even more crappy, insecure Apps, because now the people doing them do not even know how to code!
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
The guy who bought a Windows Phone will be thrilled to hear about this!
Do you have ESP?
Even Microsoft tells their customers Access is crap but as long as people continue to buy copies they keep updating it! I can't even get one of our groups to use the free version of MS SQL because Access is "easier" despite the fact we will not support them. If the 1 programmer they have leaves their project is toast.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
That's exactly why "just draw some boxes and lines!" will NEVER take off for programming.
I know an individual iOS developer who has a relatively successful App for personal finance (top 3 position in App store).
He was approached by MS recently asking him to port his iOS App to Windows Phone App.
The best bit was that MS offered to code the App for him!
You'd think it would be easier for MS just to write a cross compiler that took an XCode project and compiled it for their platform.
There's a reason nobody writes in machine language and at the very least uses assembler (or, more likely, C).
The essence of programming is the creation of abstractions... even if those abstractions are only "labels", "jumps", a "stack" and "return" (as in assembler) you can bootstrap yourself further from there into C. From C you can bootstrap yourself into whatever level of abstraction you require, whether it's C(!), C++, D, Go, JavaScript, Python, O'Caml or Haskell.
All of these visual languages lack the critical component of abstraction. (Or, at least, it hasn't been done correctly yet.)
I know this very exact situation is in a canadian government office, and with major content management, you would think this to be the most critical thing to get away from, yet they stick with Access and the 1 guy who knows it all....god save us if he dies tomorrow
Visual Basic was the nail in many coffins as it made building applications "dead simple". I am shocked that they lost their way with Zune and, by extension, Windows Phone. Now, I am happy with the idea of .NET however to create applications there needs to be a layer of simplicity added to allow someone from a non-technical background to create a really simple application. VB6.
my co-worker's step-aunt makes $73 every hour on the internet.
Writing Windows Phone apps?
Why was it a "horrible" experience? Did filemaker pro somehow fill your crankcase with 90 weight grease and wreck your engine? Did the DOS program spray poop-scented air freshener beneath your seat?
Or did you just see someone using an old DOS program that's doing exactly what the business owner needs without costing him a ton of money? Doesn't sound too horrible to me.
John
As of a month or two back, you can use any "Microsoft Account" (FKA Live account, FKA Passport, etc.) to dev-unlock a WP8 device. It's restricted to only two sideloaded apps at a time (I guess they're paranoid about piracy?) but that's enough for development if you don't work on too many projects in parallel (and if you do, then you can get the "normal" license, which was down at $19 for a while but may have gone back up at some point).
You do still need the dev tools, which is a rather big download and only runs on Windows, but they are free, and now so is the dev-unlock.
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
Yes. God save you. Because the Queen won't!
It's slightly worse than that—lack of updates isn't enough for most of these things. They just keeeep going, utterly unmaintainable, as long as they run.
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Grab your ankles!
No Income Received
This kind of shit is always just as time consuming to figure out as learning the APIs and writing the code. I think even if you have no programming background at all, these kind of visual tools are still as difficult to learn as the code and the APIs.
90 weight grease? Nooo. Never saw that. But I did see some old filemaker pro software overwrite the client's not-yet-backed-up data on their client's utility consumption with random blocks from the operating system and boot sectors. Really quite a spectacular disaster, so I was told. The lawyers got involved. All of them. I had left well beforehand, having observed the writing on the wall, in 100' told bold neon, when the original company creating the filemaker software declined to perform any sort of testing before delivery.
So, yeah, make something any idiot can use and I worry...
I want something self contained on the device that runs in airplane mode.
Airplane? I imagine Microsoft is targeting this at the majority, not the edge case of people who frequently make transcontinenal or transoceanic business trips. People who only fly a few times a year can wait to use this application until the aircraft comes to a complete stop and a Wi-Fi or cellular signal becomes available.
Sometimes the largest barrier for amateur developers is getting started with a new platform.
Especially when it involves not only yet another ~$99 per year developer license but also another $500+ per year cell phone line to add to your family plan.
I've yet to see ANYTHING produced by a "code free" coding environment that was worth a damn. Expect to see this unceremoniously shelved in the next six months.
Actually when you think about it, Microsoft has a whole slew of tools which enable creation of software and other things by people who have no idea what they are doing. And those tools seem to stick around for a long time.
So because you saw some old app fuck over a client who is too stupid to back up, your servicing experience with your car was less than spectacular?
If software does the job with a minimum of fuss, it is fit for purpose. Re-implementing the wheel "just because" is a waste of time, resources and will increase the cost of your servicing to pay for it.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
I think this is is an indication that MS (or someone else) should fill the huge hole in the market for a product LIKE Access to use, which isn't crap. SQL server is not the same thing, and it is nowhere near as easy to prototype a database driven application in SQL as it is in Access.
The fact that many people (including myself) use access from time to time to quickly solve problems in an hour or so (my most recent use was a decoder database for Windows IAS logs) that would take far longer than that to even create the back end tables and relationships in SQL DESPITE the suckage should be a massive hint for someone to put out an equivalent that DOESN'T suck.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
...will increase the cost of your servicing to pay for it.
He said they were using iMacs ($) to remotely connect to a Windows Terminal Server session ($) to run a legacy DOS application ($). That shit ain't cheap (iMac, server, MS Licensing, reliable internet, legacy application support) and it certainly isn't driving the cost down.
For a quick simple task Access is a great tool. But it was NEVER meant to be an enterprise level db and it wasn't designed to scale. I have lost more hair over people coming to me with their pet Access db that their boss now wants to roll out company wide and trying to explain why we will need to convert it to another db since Access can't handle the kind of volume they now want to add.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
Oh don't get me wrong, I totally agree. We have a plague of access databases here that engineers have written that have become mission critical.
My point is that this is a symptom of there being a lack of a decent alternative - and before someone mentions SQL again, this is not an equivalent product. Sure they're both database engines, but what sets access apart is the ease of building a UI and glue logic around the database.
MS/other need to replicate that sort of functionality before a heap of people will dump access.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
It's called marketing. If they claim to be surprised at how popular it is, that'll just get more people thinking it might be worth trying out.
I believe it should say, "Write Windows Phone Crapps, No Code Required.
My dad had a Compaq Portable 386 laptop (orange plasma screen, 640x400 "EGA") and we had the Lattice C compiler and later Watcom C for the 386.
He bought a GUI programming tool (for MS-DOS) called "Matrix Layout." I can't find it with a casual Googling...
This thing was designed to let novices write programs by drawing a flow chart i.e. filling in rectangular boxes with things like "put a value in a variable" and "draw a picture on the screen" etc. It would produce native 16-bit DOS .EXEs directly or output source code for various dialects of C (Turbo C, Quick C etc.) and things like IIRC Turbo Pascal, Turbo BASIC or Quick BASIC. My memory is hazy because this was in about 1988/9 when I was about 14.
He wrote a GUI database application using it for booking people into the accomodation on oil platforms.
When I say GUI, it was really primitive 16-colour EGA/VGA running under DOS using the graphics library that came with the compiler.