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Florida Town Stores License Plate Camera Images For Ten Years
An anonymous reader writes "Yet another privacy concern story, this time from Florida. The Longboat Key police have their new license plate camera up and running, but according to the police chief, this one stores all images as 'evidence' for up to ten years. When questioned about the possibility for abuses of this camera's historical record, the chief said, 'There are regulations, policies and laws in place that prohibit that kind of abuse. And if abuse is discovered, it's punished.' What could possibly go wrong?"
The same thing that always goes wrong, somebody will abuse it because they can.
"'There are regulations, policies and laws in place that prohibit that kind of abuse. And if abuse is discovered, it's punished."
It looks like you're new here. Welcome to Earth. Tell me more about your planet; what color is the sky there?
Here are a few starting points to learn a bit more about how The Blue Wall works when the department regulates its own behavior:
Wikipedia: Blue Code of Silence
Wikipedia: Frank Serpico
Wikipedia: Rampart Scandal
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
Isn't this just assuming everyone is guilty until proven innocent?
Evidence that we live in a police-surveilence state. Evidence of a flagrant disregard for the people they purport to "protect". Evidence of thugs and bullies abusing their power.
...a picture is forever. Even if laws were enacted to delete them, backups of backups will preserve them for posterity.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
That's appears to be longer than most Criminal Statute of Limitations in Florida, except for the most serious crimes.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
I could photograph your license plate and keep it forever and nothing you can do about it. I can post it on the internet and nothing you can do about it.
Yes you can private citizen, though It would be very difficult for you to photograph everyone's license plate at various locations all around the city 24/7 and store them forever. And you certainly can't link that person's phone records, bank records, browsing habits, etc., etc. and store those forever. And here's the rub: even if you could do all of that you yourself couldn't do a fucking thing about it because you don't have the law on your side giving you the power to break down people's doors in the middle of the night with a paramilitary unit of trained, lethally armed thugs who *know* you're a criminal.
Look where all this talking got us, baby.
I grew up about a 15 minute drive away from Longboat key. Incidentally, I ran a camera at some of their city council meetings back when I did live video work, and they were about the most boring things I've ever sat through in my life. I literally watched them debate what kind of sand they should use to replenish their beaches for two hours on one occasion. On another I saw an argument go on for the better part of three hours, in which a new guest dock was being built at a gated community and the resident whose yard it was adjacent to was very much concerned that boats parked at the dock would obscure his view of the gulf. In a truly political compromise, they finally agreed that the dock would be built, but boaters should only use one side of it.
The reason I remember these anecdotes is that they were by far the most exciting things I saw happen at any point in their city council meetings. Longboat key is a quiet community of mostly elderly, very wealthy retirees. Not only is it populated almost entirely by senior citizens, but the island is well enough isolated that there's essentially zero risk of almost anyone ever deliberately going there: the only reason I've ever been to it was for the aforementioned jobs and to drive through it to get to Sarasota. Basically, to anyone who's ever been near Longboat Key, the idea that they need any automated license plate scanning system, let alone one that retains records for a decade, is laughably absurd.
now, do that for every car that passes by a point.
and after that, install those capture devices everywhere.
do you really think this is what the founding fathers had in mind when they created this so-called free country?
the fact that computers and digital tech can take a small act and multiply it many times, THAT changes things. its different and you bloody well know it.
would you like it if we arranged to surveil every aspect of YOUR life and put it up on public show? yeah, we thought not.
and finally, you have to ask yourself a serious question: is this the kind of world you would prefer to live in? because something is technically (now) possible, does that mean its a direction we should go in without even a 2nd thought?
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Over a period of 10 years driving around, I think it's possible to chock up enough coincidental adjacency to criminal activity that we could selectively pick a non-random set of photos of your vehicle license plate, and establish a circumstantial case against you being involved in criminal activity.
Get a sufficient amount of data on anyone, and you can paint them as a criminal by being selective about the data you choose to use in presenting your case.
Yes you can private citizen, though It would be very difficult for you to photograph everyone's license plate at various locations all around the city 24/7 and store them forever. And you certainly can't link that person's phone records, bank records, browsing habits, etc.
I agree with the sentiment, but sadly it is out of date. License plates need to be completely rethought in lieu of the new capabilities available to both big brother (government) and little brother (citizenry).
First it was only repo-men: License plate data not just for cops: Private companies are tracking your car
But the allure of monetizing those databases was too much, so the lobbying began: MVTRAC Spearheads Victory Over California SB 1330
And now the same companies that do track your phone calls, your bank records and your browsing habits are also selling license-plate tracking data:
Data Brokers Are Now Selling Your Car's Location For $10 Online
And just for shits and giggles I'm going to throw this one in, brought to you by those data brokers: Your employer may share your salary, and Equifax might sell that data
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
There are regulations, policies and laws in place that prohibit that kind of abuse.
If regulations, policies and laws were actually enough to stop people, we wouldn't need to have either the camera's, the keeping of evidence or even the police.
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The reason for all of this isn't for 'safety' or even revenue, but so those in power can have evidence to screw over who they don't like. Do you think the court is going to care if you are among the majority breaking some minor law? The argument that if the majority ignores a law does not seem to matter, which is pitiful, if one considers the only authority any government has is by the consent of the governed.
Take the highway speed limit in your area, which is almost certainly well below the average speed. They won't get you, usually, unless you exceed the average significantly. But it gives the police the power to pull over almost any vehicle going above the artificially low speed limit. And those that do follow the law will be 'suspicious' by 'failing to follow the prevailing speed'.
Using roadside cameras, they can target anyone. They can use these cameras to tell the average speed of the targeted vehicle, and they could write a ticket for that vehicle each day, remotely and possibly even automatically targeted. It's only a matter of time before automated toll devices (EZ-Pass) are used in this way, already in some areas using these devices gets a discount, so you pay extra either way.
Whether this town is doing this for 'safety', revenue, or some more nefarious reason, I can't tell from the story. The only thing we can do is stay the hell away and not spend our money there. I'm going to put my tinfoil hat back on now.
... and keep it forever and nothing you can do about it. I can post it on the internet and nothing you can do about it.
There's a difference in scale between you photographing every license plate that goes past your house, and a large organization photographing every license plate, on every road, in the entire state.
That's what the Germans decided. You could drive down a street in Germany and whatever you can see through your car windows is public.
You could probably take a video without legal challenges.
But when Google drove down every street in Germany and captured everything visible in public with 360-degree cameras, the German courts decided that it violated their privacy laws.
Next time a local politician is suspected of philandering, simply FOIA the records and show how he and his girlfriend met at some hotel. Such rules will get changed in a hurry.
If the pictures are deleted as soon as a citation is issued, there is no evidence to support or assist in refuting the citation. Or would you like to live in a world where the Police can say "the photographic evidence existed to charge this person with murder, treason, speeding, bestiality and voting Democrat, but he posted as a dipshit AC on /. insisting on the pictures being deleted after 3 minutes, so we deleted them and now it is up to him to provide evidence to prove his innocence".
It should be mandatory that if a citation were issued that the evidence were kept and made available to the defence. Keeping this 0.001% of the pictures until the court process is complete is very different from keeping 100% of the pictures for 10 years.
Or would you like to live in a world where the Police can say "the photographic evidence existed to charge this person with murder, treason, speeding, bestiality and voting Democrat, but he posted as a dipshit AC on /. insisting on the pictures being deleted after 3 minutes, so we deleted them and now it is up to him to provide evidence to prove his innocence".
I would love to live in that world since that's not how American courts work. And letting some actual murderers, traitors, speeders, perverts, and Democrats go free is an okay price for everyone's freedom.
better yet, someone should post those images to the Internet.
But I'm sure Murphy's law will prevent abuse.
They're using their grammar skills there.
I'd hand them that info.
They could pull my cell records and find out where I went with better accuracy. They could tail me. They could talk to my friends and find out where and what I did on a certain day. Honestly, even if they couldn't do any of that, I'd still hand over where I was and what I did on some day. They are trying to solve some crime, I'd help them to the best of my abilities and recollection. And if I had digital recollections, I'd pull those up as well. Why are we working "against" the police? Because we they give us traffic tickets?
I honestly don't fucking care. To me, if it makes police work easier, cheaper, and more efficient, then I'm all for it. I'm more angry at the criminal elements who like to take advantage of a society that bends over backwards to try and be understanding and open. Were's the outrage on the causal criminal that decides while driving by your house that they are going to grab your amazon boxes outside your door?
I trust the police to carry lethal weapons and to intervene and start the justice process. As well as collect evidence and statements. That is their job.
The majority of the comments I've read here attack from a future where the posters are living in a dystopian society where "officials" are looking for reason to trap, blame, or frame someone who was innocent into a criminal.
I just don't get it. If they really are so evil, they don't need traffic cameras to frame you. They'll pull you over and put something illegal in your car. Gameoverman.
-Malakai
A Dragon Lives in my Garage
To me, if it makes police work easier, cheaper, and more efficient, then I'm all for it. I'm more angry at the criminal elements who like to take advantage of a society that bends over backwards to try and be understanding and open.
And you are the reason why we have the Patriot Act and why more people don't believe that what the NSA has been doing is a bad thing.
Time to offend someone