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Don't Fly During Ramadan
An anonymous reader sends in a harrowing story from Aditya Mukerjee about his recent attempt to fly from New York to Los Angeles. After being pulled aside in the security line, he faced hours of interrogation by uncommunicative officials from several different agencies. When he was finally cleared, his airline, Jet Blue, wouldn't let him on the plane anyway. When he got home, he found evidence that it had been searched. He writes,
"It was 2:20PM by the time I was finally released from custody. My entire body was shaking uncontrollably, as if I were extremely cold, even though I wasn’t. I couldn’t identify the emotion I was feeling. Surprisingly, as far as I could tell, I was shaking out of neither fear nor anger - I felt neither of those emotions at the time. The shaking motion was entirely involuntary, and I couldn’t force my limbs to be still, no matter how hard I concentrated. In the end, JetBlue did refund my flight, but they cancelled my entire round-trip ticket. Because I had to rebook on another airline that same day, it ended up costing me about $700 more for the entire trip. .. But no matter how I’ve tried to rationalize this in the last week and a half, nothing can block out the memory of the chilling sensation I felt that first morning, lying on my air mattress, trying to forget the image of large, uniformed men invading the sanctuary of my home in my absence, wondering when they had done it, wondering why they had done it."
Hey, America,
Are you proud of yourself yet? Proud of what you've become to yourself, your citizens and to the rest of the world? I can't imagine that this is what any of our founding fathers envisioned when they risked everything in order to found this country. And now look what you've made of it.
Ashamed,
A Disappointed Citizen
It's called jihad.
When an entire religion declares that non-members are subhuman kafirs who deserve death, and the "moderate" members of that religion tacitly allow that, it's bad enough.
But it's even worse when that religion places the "holy" duty of jihad on all its members to go out and literally wage war against kafirs.
You reap what you sow.
TL;DR: Old School McCarthyism
Why you ask? Because despite your bigotry, if you had read the article you would have noticed the guy is Hindu.
You realize, that Muslim extremists are to Islam what the Westboro Baptist Church, Tripura, Assam, Odisha, anti-abortion bombers, and Hutaree are for Christianity, right? Sickening examples that leave the majority just as disgusted as you, the outside observer.
It's called imperialism.
When an entire country declares that non-members are subhuman johnny-foreigners who deserve death, and the "moderate" citizens of that country tacitly allow that, it's bad enough.
But it's even worse when that country places the "holy" duty of detection of terrorism on all its citizens to go out and literally wage war against johnny foreigners.
You reap what you sow.
Didn't read the article, did you?
The author's not a muslim, and even if he had been, his treatment was asinine.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
... when they came for the hindus, I said nothing.
I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
In any case, while the argument can be made he could have driven or taken the bus instead of flown, and so travel is not infringed, there are cases when air travel is the only viable option. Therefore the security theater that has popped up over the past decade can only be construed as an attack on our right to travel, and, along with the job creation program called military action and surveillance, transform us into a citizenry whose ability to grow and become education is much less that the previous generation.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Actually the flaw is yours. Did the fact that not all members of the Nazi party were fully committed to "the cause" make that group any less dangerous? No, it did not.
The religion of Islam has as its cause the conversion of all people to its faith, either willingly or by force. Conversion from Islam to another religion is the "crime" of apostasy and punishible by death. This group, as a whole, is dangerous. Just look at what is happening to christians in Egypt.
Perhaps some innocent Nazis were detained and searched too. Boo hoo.
You said "bomb"! Arrest him!
The feeling he describes, from lost security and violation of personal rights by security officers, police and flight company -- it's terror.
Just because of a false positive, and because people don't know the difference between a Hindu/Indian and a Muslim/Pakistani, and are "too smart" to ask directly.
I wonder how many more false positives like this happen, with similarly Kafkaesque stories and no satisfactory conclusion (compensation for raiding the wrong home, anyone?).
NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
Um, no. The Talmud doesn't say that. You should probably stop reading Neo-Nazi and Jihadist websites.
*some restrictions may apply.
Prosser: But the plans were on display.
Arthur Dent: On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar.
Prosser: That's the display department.
Arthur Dent: With a torch.
Prosser: The lights had probably gone.
Arthur Dent: So had the stairs.
Prosser: But you did see the notice, didn't you?
Arthur Dent: Oh, yes. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign outside the door saying "Beware of the Leopard." Ever thought of going into advertising?
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Since the the entire religion is based on the koran and states that all non-muslims are infidels i think his statement is accurate to within round off error.
On a less accurate note I have been led to believe that the crazies are the ones running most of the show while the sane ones don't have the intestinal fortitude to stop them. Kinda like our congress, so much crazy crap is going on and so little being done about it by the sane ones.
How did he know the men in his house were "large?"
They tried on his sweaters and stretched the head-holes.
"Actually the flaw is yours. Did the fact that not all members of the Nazi party were fully committed to "the cause" make that group any less dangerous? No, it did not."
But it did mean that we didn't prosecute all Nazis for war crimes just because they were Nazis.
Also, newsflash, many major religions support the cause of converting others or killing them. Including Christians and Jews. A clear majority of Muslims think that's an outdated concept just as much as Christians and Jews do too. It's just some relatively tiny sects that still support it (see Westboro Baptist Church).
Actually, the after-effects from a surge adrenalin was why he was shaking.
Admittedly, caused by the "fight or flight" reflex triggered by the fear engendered by the abusive of authority administered upon his person.
Its literally his body and muscles, all hyped up to run but having no escape, trembling as it releases all that energy and tension to return to normal functioning.
Remember when "fear of flying" used to be about the planes crashing?
If somebody tested positive for explosives residue going through airport security I'd be suspicious too.
The problem here is the level of expertise of the people responding to this situation. It's like these people are DMV rejects. They do not have the training or even basic knowledge needed to deal with this situation AT ALL.
So he's guilty of the crime of "flying while Muslim"?
Oh wait... He's Hindu.
So he's guilty of the crime of "flying while having a name that someone thinks sounds Muslim."
Airport Security: Just when you think they've gone as low as they can go, they dig deep and go lower! Congrats TSA (and other agencies since home searching isn't something the TSA does) for continually coming in below our already lowered our expectations.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
I think opening a newspaper recently, and following anything happening regarding the NSA, Snowden, Manning, Greenwald, etc. might provide you with some circumstantial evidence that would indicate that the scenario described is plausible. Hell, even if it isn't true, I'm angry that things have gotten to the point that I can believe it. Further, now that Clapper has gone in front Congress and been caught lying without repercussions, even a flat denial from officials doesn't cut it for me anymore. This is a problem for our now seemingly nominal democracy. I heard a great line from Ron Paul - I may misquote: "The truth becomes treason in an empire of lies". We're there.
There were communist spies in the state department. And there was almost zero intersection between the communist spies and the lives destroyed by McCarthism. So your point is...?
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Or more terminologically correct, "Terror".
Terrorism:
Terrorism is the systematic use of terror, often violent, especially as a means of coercion.
Terrorist:
A person who uses terrorism in the pursuit of political aims.
So really, you, like Miranda last week, had a run in with terrorists and lived.
There really were witches in Salem, too. Prove that there weren't!
Sure, just look into my crystal ball ... Oh wait!
This reminded me of last year's massacre at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin, where the gunman thought he was attacking a mosque. Not that Muslims deserve to be targeted for hate crimes and unconstitutional detention any more than non-Muslims, but detaining a Hindu on suspicion of being a radical Muslim? It would be like detaining an Episcopalian on suspicion of being an IRA terrorist. After all, Whitey all looks the same...
Another agent came over and handed me a paper slip
Notice that he's already receiving different treatment, despite absolutely zero evidence that he's any kind of threat to anyone.
“You can leave, but I’m keeping your bag.”
Something that would have been interesting to try at this point: "Ok, then. I presume there's a procedure for handling bags you've collected in this fashion, let's fill out the necessary paperwork and do everything by the book, and I'll need to be kept informed about which office to contact for retrieving such evidence once you've discovered that there's nothing criminal about it."
“What is your religion?”
This whole line of questioning is so obviously in violation of the Free Exercise clause it's not even funny.
I am officially gone from
I've felt that feeling to a much smaller degree when I found out that my identity was stolen and a credit card was opened in my name. We go about our lives confident that some things are safe. When we leave the house/apartment in the morning, we're confident that everything will be there when we get back. When we walk down the street, we're confident that our body won't be violated by some random stranger. When we go about our daily lives, we're confident that someone isn't - at that moment - opening lines of credit that will financially ruin us.
We're confident about all this because the alternative is living in terror of assaults from all angles at every second and there's no way a sane mind could deal with this.
So we convince ourselves that we (and our belongings, credit, loved ones, etc) are safe.
And then something like this happens which shatters our illusion of safety. Mine was a bit abstract (your credit score isn't exactly a physical entity) and was caught early so the impact wasn't as big. The author's impact was worse because his body safety illusion was shattered, his concept of having the freedom to move as he pleased was destroyed, and the safety of his personal effects was violated. Rape victims probably feel something similar. We don't really have a word that accurately describes it because it isn't a feeling we feel often enough.
Oh and if you think you don't have an illusion of safety because you've read stories like this and know it can happen - you're wrong. Even though you read the stories, part of your brain rationalizes away the terror of the situation as "things that happen to other people" and you maintain your internal safety illusion until something like this happens.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
There's a song for that. (and, no, it's not that shitty South Park thing, but some fine Denis Leary)
It is about numbers. You can read books by Muslim women talking about what they see as dominant trends in their culture, in places like Egypt, Gaza, and where Islamic culture spreads to Europe and America. It isn't as simple as "extremists are a tiny minority". I also see it personally with friends who come from Muslim families -- despite being born in the West, they cannot extricate themselves from the old culture without being completely ostracised from their family. Many would rather conform than leave. And to do it they'll live a double life. Anyway like I say, read what Moslem women like Nonie Darwish, Ghazal Omid, Qanta Ahmed.
A sample from Darwish: "We often hear that “moderate” Muslims are the majority and that terrorist supporters are a minority fringe group. However, when genuine Islamic moderate leaders stand firm against terrorism, we do not see majority Muslim support for their views. To the contrary, such “moderates” shout the speakers down, condemn, and threaten them."
Anyway this is a separate point to racial profiling by security services.
You're proud to be a bully? Go you!
Since the the entire religion is based on the koran and [it] states that all non-muslims are infidels
No, it doesn't. The Koran distinguishes believers on one extreme, infidels on the other, and "people of the book" in the middle, who must be protected by believers even though they're (thought of as being) in error. Christians and Jews are explicitly cited as "people of the book". Afterwards Buddhists, Hinduists and others were added to the list.
By the way: traditional Muslims in Egypt have been helping protect Christian churches from the fundamentalist Christian-hating ones. In particular, they've been protecting Coptic Christian churches, the same Coptics that both Catholics and Orthodox Christians were persecuting several centuries ago and who had to flee from Europe and find refuge there, in Islamic Egypt, back in the day fundamentalist Islam hadn't been invented yet (this one's an English Puritanism-inspired 18th-century innovation).
Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
I don't think it's an important point at all.
It doesn't matter if the guy was Hindu, Muslim, Atheist, Christian or Xenu him-fucking-self, this SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.
Muslim extremists do act violently on their extreme views.
I've actually seen a group of Phelpsies. I've interacted with them. A friend of mine had a bogus police report filed against him by them.
You, on the other hand, have never met a Muslim extremist. In fact, although I don't know you from Adam's off ox, I feel confident that you don't actually know any Muslims personally at all -- or if you do, you're unaware of their religion because there was no reason for the subject to come up, particularly when talking with a guy like you. Would you want to talk to you about religion? I'm feeling dirty right now.
And BTW, anti-abortion bombers actually are, by definition, "blowing things up". In know, I know, no true Scotsman.
I am not a crackpot.
Based on polling, between 10 and 20% of Muslims are "radicalized". That represents at least 200,000,000 people. They are following their scripture's teachings. Not surprisingly, there are Muslim terrorist attacks in the Middle East almost daily. Pakistan is particularly hard hit, and most victims of Muslim violence are other Muslims.
The "Christians" that you've mentioned there are not following the teachings in their scriptures, and they number in the hundreds total. They've killed a few people. On average, they've killed fewer people in the last 100 years than the Muslims kill in a day.
Which group should I be more worried about?
Do you have ESP?
I have the sneaking suspicion that you're sort of an idiot.
It is useful as ever. McCarthy took the allegation "there are communist spies", expanded that to "all communists are spies" and finally conducted show trials to condemn more or less random people, all to boost his own career. This is, of course, entirely analogous to this story: "there are muslim terrorists" -> "all muslims are terrorists" -> "this guy might be a muslim! Break down his door!"
It's a tactic with a long and bloody pedigree. McCarthy was simply a less capable Hitler wannabe. And so are the current anti-muslim fearmongers.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
The fact that the SUMMARY leaves out this very important point shows how bad the editors are.
I fail to see where the guy's religion comes into the picture. There is a difference between profiling and between hating Muslims. One is a security measure, the other is bigotry.
Oh, and I'm an Israeli jew. Half my good neighbours are Muslims. Of course, my country has an existential threat, not a power-hungry government, so our citizens are able to make this distinction.
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
Yes, you idiot. The passage you quote is Rabbi Yochanan being slapped down for saying something stupid and wrong.
That's a shame then, a case of mistaken identity. Unfortunately this sort of thing happens occasionally, but it is the Muzzes to blame not the authorities defending against them.
I generally don't presume to speak for others, but in this case I'll make an exception.
On behalf of everyone who isn't a bigoted moronic arsewipe, I'd just like to say to you: You are an oxygen thief.
Fuck you. Flying is a necessary part of a normal life. Just because you have decided you don't need it doesn't make it a luxury. People with family abroad, jobs that are in different cities, or maybe someone who wants to see parts of the world and expand their mind beyond their backyard.
The market-based solution of boycott isn't always the solution! Sometimes you need laws to protect minorities.
TL;DR: Old School McCarthyism
You don't know how right you are.
"Why do so many countries want to attack us?" the person asked.
The general replied that America stands in the way of them reaching their objective, which is to force everybody to comply with sharia law.
That general is Keith Alexander, head of the NSA
Yes, the head of the NSA is a fox news nutbag.
McCarthy is alive and well.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
I think I can safely say that's an unfair representation of the text you quoted? I mean, people who say that the Koran says to kill non-believers are off base(it does say to kill ex-believers, which isn't much better), Shariah law(the "accepted" interpretation of the Koran's rules) suggests a tax on non-believers is the most that can be demanded.
Why did this happen?
The guy's Indian, and to your average dimwitted, racist TSA goon that's just another variety of "terr'ist sand-nigger." They're not even smart enough to be racist properly.
This led to him getting an enhanced pat-down with an explosive swab test on his pants which came back positive for some unknown reason, and everything snowballed from there like some kind of comedy skit, where everything he did and said was interpreted as matching the profile of a terrorist.
Now this raises the question, is this how they treat anyone who they think is a Muslim? Explosive swab test and then run them through the wringer if it tests positive, complete with searching their home?
This is why I don't fly in clothes that I've handled gasoline or worked on cars in, you never know what might have been absorbed into the fibers.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
An uncorroborated story, retold in amazing detail (he remembers almost everything said to him so clearly that he's comfortable using quotation marks for dialog), complete with a clever protagonist who's at the mercy of idiots (the Jet Blue agent who, despite working at one of the busiest airports in the US seems never to have encountered anyone who isn't a WASP, the TSA drones who think they're working in the Hotel California, the cops who can't read dates on an ID card and mistake venture capital with capitol one credit cards because, y'know, they're a bunch of blue-collar dummies. Luckily though, our protagonist is clever enough to be able to guess their source of confusion immediately). Then, the chilling conclusion, where he returns home to find almost everything exactly in place, except for the missing photograph. Why would whatever shadowy TLA actually take a photograph off the wall? If they were interested in what it showed, might it not just occur to them to, I dunno, take a picture of it themselves? Then there's the procedural inconsistencies...the NYPD officer can't even be present when he's patted down "because when we pat people down, it’s to lock them up." Really? NYC, the focus of the "Stop and Frisk" controversy actually has officers who believe they can't do a pat-down unless it's during an arrest? And going back to the uncorroborated nature of the story, he would have at least had some voicemails from himself during this ordeal, except once again the universe conspired against him and when he called his parents, "Unfortunately, my mom’s voicemail was full, and my dad had never even set his up".
I'm not going to go so far as to say that the blogger here is lying, but there's more than enough here to make me very skeptical.
Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
You got the wrong Arthur Dent quote - should have been this: “It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..." "You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?" "No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people." "Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy." "I did," said Ford. "It is." "So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?" "It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."
You're so cute.
I get the feeling these so-called random searches are from an NSA-built profile. Someone with a similar name or nearby location made some references online, and this guy's getting gloveloved because some computer flagged him as a "possible".
I got flagged once as a "possible" back when I was in school. Some guy robbed a bank and escaped by bike. I happened to be wearing a blue vest, same ass the suspect.
---
ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
A friend of mine set off the explosives detectors while trying to fly home for spring break. He hadn't been in contact with any cleaning products or fertilizers or anything like that, and he couldn't for the life of him figure out what the culprit could be.
In the end, it turned out it was his sweat-absorbing socks. I'm not a chemist, so I don't know precisely what it was in sweat that can set off their detectors (ammonia, maybe?), but for everyone's sake I hope TSA had some good hazmat disposal protocols for those things.
Of course, my friend is white, so no back-alley interrogation for him.
You mean a country that had a democratically elected leader until the US and UK organized a coup and then spent several years training secret police to murder and torture any secularists who didn't support the friendly puppet that they put in place? What do you have left when you have paid for all of the secularists to be killed? Let's be entirely honest about the history there. I admit that that country does have a grudge against us, but they have a really, REALLY good reason for it.
The converse that all terrorists are Muslim is a common sense generalization, however.
All Terrorists are Muslims... Except the 94% that Aren't
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Didn't realize LE went from using face recognition to ass recognition. Makes sense since you usually will see criminals running away from you so it's helpful to be able to ID them from behind. Though from your experience it seems the technology still has a ways to go.
Your contention is "He was just asking for it"?
Make sure to mention that line of thinking if you get called to jury duty. I'm sure the victim doesn't want you on the jury any more than you want to be on the jury. Perhaps even more.
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
You blue-vesties never learn.
Dark Reflection
What is the penalty for apostasy in the Muslim religion?
The same one applied in the Christian and Jewish religions: death.
What? You thought either preached something different? No, they just don't put into practice. But that it's in the book all the same, it is.
How old was Muhammad's wife? How old must a person be to be wed under Islamic law? How old must that wife be to have sex?
Of legal age at the time. Of legal age under said law. :-)
What? You think our Western laws aren't arbitrary either? Try talking to someone from 3613 CE an see what he thinks of your morality and the laws you think of as just. Just as a matter of perspective I'll say this: a radical progressive of the 1920's would feel welcome among the extreme right wing of the GOP of today. Ditto for us all in 100 years, never mind in 1600.
We're all the cavemen of tomorrow.
Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
... and you cut off before the most important bit:
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
“Because if they didn’t vote for a lizard, the wrong lizard might get in.”
I agree about their randomness. I suspect that they mean random in the same sense as "random access memory". What the computer does with RAM is not random.
I got "randomly selected" for five legs of a six-leg trip once. Then I stopped flying if I could avoid it.
www.wavefront-av.com
I have this image of a group of security specialists standing over a table with a crockpot, package of frozen chicken legs, carrots, onions and bullion cubes saying, "Put out a BOLO for an elderly lady with an apron. Approach with caution."
You are welcome on my lawn.
Man, Paula Dean just can't get a break.
I haven't flown in 11 years, and I routinely encourage others not to. Not for personal, not for business. Not at all.
I routinely drive 200-500 mile round trips because I won't advocate a pat down or a naked picture. Not of my wife, my children, or even myself. It is an unacceptable term of flying.
Don't tell me that I'm not willing to inconvenience myself sir, I find it repugnant, and offensive - and I have put my money where my mouth is.
Video meliora proboque deteriora sequor - Ovidius
I know! That's why we never heard of Constitution on Chest Guy, Little White Boy with Terrorist's Name & Friends, Veteran with Too Much Implanted Metal or TSA Pen. Tester Guy. The media just isn't interested in the plight of the white man.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Bullshit, he tested positive for chemicals which are also used in explosives. That doesn't warrant holding someone for longer than it takes to determine they don't have explosives on them or in their luggage. On top of that they then apparently went and searched his appartment, because he had chemical residues on his person.
I've worked in close proximity to military working dogs that did bomb sniffing. Their training is such that when in doubt they sit and indicate a chemical. I can't tell you how many times I saw the base I was at go into a temporary lockdown which they searched a truck more thoroughly because a dog sat down. It doesn't mean that it isn't a valid form of detection but that false positives are far more likely than you might think and should be handled in a professional manner.
According to his accusers, Mr. Xenu is guilty of extreme war crimes including mass murder by the use of nuclear weapons. There is no statute of limitations on such crimes and if his accusers are saying anything that might be corroborated enough to trigger a police or even customs investigation, that's grounds for adding him to the no fly lists. We also seem to have allegations that Mr. Xenu touched somebody's thetans, and I'm shocked, shocked I say, that apparently nobody has called Chris Hansen with these claims. I fully support adding Mr. Xenu to the no fly lists. (Particularly if the airplane in question resembles a gold plated DC-10).
In addition, Mr. Xenu is alleged to be a space alien, and in the case where I have seen him hanging out outside the Scientology campus in Clearwater Fla. he certainly looked like one. and I have a degree in recognizing space aliens from the University of thousands of hours of Stargate-SG1, Farscape, and Trek. Body cavity searches thus constitute data of priceless scientific value. We ignore people's rights for everything else, why not for science?
Who is John Cabal?
Nope! It turns out, Senator McCarthy was right. There really were Communists in the State Department.
This forces us to re-evaluate the entire phrase of "McCarthyism" as the current (wrong) meaning implies falsehood. Please stop using this phrase, it is deprecated.
As I've pointed out before, if you think McCarthyism is wrong because he was accusing people who weren't communists of being communists, you don't get it. The problem with McCarthyism is that he was trying to hurt people for their political views. In this country, you have the right to be communist.
Black box gave false positive result.
Under-trained and under-educated interrogators were not capable of either asking relevant questions or understanding his answers.
Interrogators resorted to low-level torture (not providing water after multiple hours).
Unconstitutional search of his apartment was conducted.
FTFY
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!